8 Nov 2009

Even more proof that FERNANDO TORRES is a better striker than Wayne Rooney

A few weeks ago I looked at the creative impact of Fernando Torres and Wayne Rooney over the last two complete seasons. Torres was streets ahead of Rooney in almost every way, but some people (i.e. Man U fans in denial) argued that it was an unfair comparison as they played in different positions. Well, since Torres and Rooney are both now playing the striker role, I've taken a look at the last 10 games to gauge how things are going this season.

Here is a brief recap of the results from my previous analysis:

T=Torres
R=Rooney
ST = Starts
SB = Sub
G = Goals
A = Assists
M = minutes on pitch
GPM – Goals per minutes
GPG – Goals per game
CRPM – Creative ratio per minute
CRPG – Creative ratio per game


SIDE BY SIDE - Totals: 2007-present


ST

SB

M

G

A

GPM

GPG

CRPM

CRPG

T

76

15

6800

58

10

1/117

1/1.5

1/100

1/1.3

R

86

14

7599

41

26

1/185

1/2.4

1/113

1/1.5












SIDE BY SIDE - Goals per game/goals per minute: 2007-present


GPM 07

GPM 08

GPM

09

GPG 07

GPG 08

GPG 09

T

1/98

1/163

1/95

1/1.4

1/2.2

1/1.1

R

1/183

1/208

1/125

1/2.3

1/2.8

1/1.5


As you can see, Torres is far superior to Rooney when it comes to overall creative impact.

With that in mind, let's take a look at the last 10 games for each player:


S

M

G


GPM

GPG


T

10

730

7

1/104

1/1.4


R

10
805

3

1/268

1/3.3



As you can see, so far this season there is no comparison: Torres is inarguably the better striker. Just look at the facts! Torres' record of one goal every 104 minutes dwarf's Rooney's poor showing of a goal every 268 minutes. The same goes for goals per game.

Rooney apologists pointed to his number of assists being greater than Torres' over the three year comparison period (in the first article), but even that cannot be used as an excuse this season as Torres and Rooney both have 1 assist each so far.

And let's not forget that Torres has been carrying an injury for the last few games - if not longer - and despite that, he still outperforms Rooney.

The most symbolic proof of Torres' superiority over Rooney came in the recent Liverpool victory over United at Anfield. Torres played through the pain barrier, and when someone needed to step-up, who was it? Rooney?

No. It was Torres who made the difference, whilst Rooney struggled to make even the most negligible impact on the game.

Whilst it is true that there are still plenty of games to go this season, when I conduct the same analysis in May, the results will still be the same: Torres will be streets ahead of Rooney.

There can be no argument: Torres is, by far, a more consistently effective striker than Rooney.


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58 comments:

  1. stupid scousers... come back then you have wont the league!!!!!!! YAWN

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  2. Truth hurts, eh? 8-)

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  3. there are more sides to the game than what you are highlighting, wierd that you didnt include the first games when rooney scored 6 goals in 6 games..
    I'd have rooney in my team over Torres any day.. what could Torres do in a utd side to lift the team higher than it is today, with rooney.. well i think ive made myself clear

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  4. Who gives a damn whether Rooney runs 20 miles a game?!  Strikers are judged on goals and goals alone, not how many tackles they make or how much yelling they do every game.

    It doesn't matter if I include all games from the beginning of the season - Torres still comes out on top!  And as you can see, Torres has come out on top for the last 2 seasons running.

    And how have you made yourself clear?  Torres has a super winning mentality; he defends from the front; he leads by example; he's a better role-model for youngsters etc.

    Please explain in what way Rooney is better than Torres. 

    One things is certain: If Torres was playing in United's team right now, he would be scoring more goals than Rooney.

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  5. get a life and stop being a geek, from a liverpool fan

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  6. I'll admit that Torres is a better player than Rooney in the sense that his impact on the side is far more pronounced than say Rooney. But I form my judgement based on the aesthetic import and vibe I get from watching the subtleties -- the movement, for instance that puts Torres in a better position to create a chance for himself where Rooney may have been bogged down doing defensive duties. My point is, there is a danger for one to get too bogged down by statistics in an attempt to constrain football.

    I am not against statistics in football, but I believe the game is far too fluid for the existing metrics to describe the game. Baseball for instance is a game with discrete events that could quite easily be quantified. In football, if you say "pass complete", does that take into account that said pass was completed on account of an error/misjudgement by an opposing player (much like a misfield in baseball is accounted for)? How is such a pass, different from an exquisite through ball? Or how is an exquisitely weighted through ball that goes astray due to the poor judgement of a strier who doesn't read the mind of the midfielder? If stats account for that, I will be firmly behind it. Our current metrics are far too primitive for that.

    I suggest you read this piece that best describes my views on the usage of statistics in football.

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  7. Who cares?? Ronaldo is a better striker than Torres......need proof? Getting all caught up who is the best is petty and stats can prove anything you want them to but bottom line will always be trophy's at the end of the season and United 'stats' do ok in that respect..... :-P

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  8. Hi RedRanter - thanks for your comments.  Whilst I agree that statistics are not the only crterion by which to judge a player, a striker's goal ratio is surely the most imprtant barometer of how important he is to the team.

    Torres does a lot of defending as well, but still manages to outscore Rooney.  Furthermore, pass-complete stats and movement are great, but the proof is in the pudding: goals win games, not great movement with no end product and number of passes completed.

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  9. Ronaldo is not a better striker than Torres - he is a more effective attacking player than Torres.  There is a difference. 

    I will happily concede that because the facts speak for themselves.  In the last 2 completed seasons, Ronaldo has more goals and more assists than Torres, so it can credibly be argued that he is a better attacking player.

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  10. The point of this article is...?

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  11. Ronaldo is not a better striker - he is a more effective attacking player than Torres.  There is a difference. 

    I will happily concede that because the facts speak for themselves.  In the last 2 completed seasons, Ronaldo has more goals and more assists than Torres, so it can credibly be argued that he is a better attacking player.

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  12. I notice an 'H' was missing from the stats, as in 'H' for hernia! Good, bad or indifferent no player is any good semi permanently in the treatment room. Rooney and a full season for me any day of the week .

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  13. Right - so how do you explain how Torres outscored Rooney last season and finished with a better GPG and GPM despite being regularly injured?

    On a purely individual level, you are basically saying you'de take the less effective player.

    That's your choice of course, but you will see how not having a more effective striker in the team will affect you this season when you fail to retain the title.

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  14. I'm glad thats proven now. Shame the rest of the teams so sh1te!

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  15. The argument I'd make for Rooney here is that he's not helped by a strong central midfield like Torres was for the last 2 years, and some of this year. With the service of Gerrard and Alonso, a striker can be made to look much better.

    On the other hand, Torres gives so much more than goals. Man U fans keep on talking about the intangibles that Rooney gives - passion, loyalty, commitment etc., but what does Torres lack in that department. He's everything you're looking for in a player - skill, big-game presence, calmness, intelligence, AND loyalty. Passion is more than just kissing your badge, or screaming at the ref like Rooney and Terry love doing. Are you telling me Lineker and Beckham weren't passionate and committed because they didn't engage in thuggery every time they could? 

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  16. The problem is that Ladyboy is your only world-class player, so who cares if he's better than rooney! Football is a team sport

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  17. This isn't proof, football is much more than an individual game, what Rooney brings to a team cannot be underestimated, Torres is a fantastic scorer but where's the effort elsewhere? Rooney closes down, defends, attacks, he can play any game in front of him be it out wide or up front on his own, if Torres is so good where are his medals to prove it 'cuz at the end of the day, scoring a goal or two is good, but when you've got fuck all to show from it you'll never be truly accepted, when the top strikers are talked about, they were all winners, the Liverpool side is a very good side yet they're not winning and when it's a team game Torres has to take some of the blame, maybe his overall game is costing Liverpool more than it's helping them? There's more than one type of striker, look at Ruuds record around the world and for club and country, his part of the game is to score goals and he does, can he lift a side on his own? No, can Torres? No. Can Rooney? He's already doing so. It's alright to be bias towards your own player but as a Bolton fan and a hater of Liverpool and United I have to say i'd take Rooney in my side, the individual and team goals he's scored, some against us (the amazing counter attack from United) sets him apart from any striker in the world and it's no surprise that Drogbas team mate, Lampard, says he's the best player he's ever played with and he's played with some top top players.

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  18. Torres is World-class, Rooney is bottom of the class<img></img>

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  19. Semantics being the point.....who cares who the better striker is if your team is not winning titles?

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  20. Well it's official...... Stats are very easy to manipulate especially when you know what you want to achieve. We all know football is all about opinions but this article is screams of desperation....... Let's face it Liverpool are down and out, there's always next season. You should worry about whether torres will even be there next year. Surely a player who is as good as you say will want some trophies in the cabinet before his career ends if he has any ambition drive and ability he will want success unfortunately that's not gonna happen for him at Liverpool. Torres is a class act no doubt about it, different style to Rooney so to compare them on stats like this is pretty nieve on the authors part.

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  21. I just love it when people make massive generalisations but don't back them up ;)

    You state:


    Well it's official...... Stats are very easy to manipulate especially when you know what you want to achieve.

    Okay - please illustrate how the stats have been manipulated.

    to compare them on stats like this is pretty nieve on the authors part.

    Naive?  How exactly.  It is a fact that Torres is more effective attacking player than Rooney, is it not?

    Surely a player who is as good as you say will want some trophies in the cabinet before his career ends if he has any ambition drive and ability he will want success unfortunately that's not gonna happen for him at Liverpool.

    Right.  So I suppose Alan Shearer is not a very good player either?!

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  22. Rooney aint a crock matey!! Your ladyboy is on the bench most the time

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  23. Yet Torres STILL outscores Rooney, even though he's on the bench more.

    As we saw at Anfield recently, a half-fit Torres is still  more effective than a fully fit Rooney.

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  24. Or on how much you can cry at refs like babies.

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  25. unfortunately that's not gonna happen for him at Liverpool.

    HAHAHAAH wanna bet.

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  26. The annoying one.

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  27. Alan Shearer, who scored 336 goals in 575 games since Premier League inception, won nothing. being an effective attacking player and scoring goals for fun does not necessary guarantees success

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  28. Alan Shearer won the PL, Torres will never win the PL

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  29. People who have commented so far stating that they would rather have Rooney in their team, are in denial or would rather not have Torres simply on principle (he is an LFC player after all).

    People talk about Rooney because of his loyalty, the same player that said 'Once a RED always a BLUE'....sorry that was incorrect. However, objectively, Torres is a far more superior footballer. Irrespective of who wins trophies or not, a centre forward is there to score goal and Rooney does not score as much as Torres. Alan Shearer the epitomy of a centre forward.

    Just by the way, Wayne Rooney has ears the size of Satellite Dishes.

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  30. i am a liverpool fan. By the same token Darren bent has outscored both rooney and van persie so far, does that mean he is a better striker? I wouldnt say so.

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  31. <span>lFCXABI - thanks for your comments.</span>

    if we're looking at this season alone then it can be argued that Bent is a more effective striker *this season*.  Overall, that might not be case, but you'd have to look over a set period of time for a fair comparison.

    I looked over 2 years in my original Torres/Rooney comparison, which is a fair length of time.

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  32. Wow, I have to comment on this because Jamie is arguing with (what I presume is) a Manc. fan! Long may it continue! Go Jamie, and Go Torres, who is far and away the best striker in the world over the last two years. The Prem does not lie, nor does his scoring record, ALL FROM OPEN PLAY.

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  33. Jevon, you are an idiot. For all the sticks you could attempt to beat Torres with as competition to Rooney, berating the Ref is perhaps the worst you could have come up with. I put your IQ in the low 80's.

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  34. Let's draw an end to this discussion right now.

    As just stated on the official LFC site, Fernando Torres has scored 48 goals from 67 league games. He is two short of the 50 required to beat the "quickest to score 50" all time record holder for the most succesful football team in the world, and has 13 games in which to scores these two goals.

    By this standard, Rooney would be lucky to be his boot-boy. And lest I say again, ALL FROM OPEN PLAY.

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  35. Let's draw an end to this discussion right now. 
     
    As just stated on the official LFC site, Fernando Torres has scored 48 goals from 67 league games. He is two short of the 50 required to beat the "quickest to score 50" all time record holder for the most succesful football team in English history, and has 13 games in which to scores these two goals. 
     
    By this standard, Rooney would be lucky to be his boot-boy. And lest I say again, ALL FROM OPEN PLAY.

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  36. ANSWER TO WAZZA IS GOD...

    THE NICKNAME SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.. HE THINKS HE'S GOD HEHE, WHAT A JOKER HE IS HE IS. HE IS FORGETTING THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.... AND GOD CREATED ONLY ONE FERNANDO TORRES AND ONE STEVEN GERRARD, NOT WAYNE ROONEY AS HE BY FAR BEHIND EL NINO

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  37. Shut up u man.u scumbag!!! Rooney sucks just like u!!!!

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  38. Wanna bet, sure I do, what trophy will you winthis season?

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  39. There is no sweeping generalisation, you can usewhatever stats best illustrate your argument but whilst I agree goals is the main one but you have put 26 assists compared to torres 10 but then you are saying torres is more creative? That's just wrong. Also Rooney played in various positionsover the last few years howhave you factored that in. I think torres is awesome I really rate him but your argumentis flawed on many levels and like the previous guy said isn't darren bent then the better overall player if you are measuring it on these stats? Interestingly both shearer and lineker recently said if they had 60million Rooney is the striker they would go for. Also I standby what I said a striker worth his salt will want to win things and You basically compared that to shearers situation likening yourselves to Newcastle, enough said..

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  40. Anyway, good work, Jamie. :-D

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  41. Jamie, I respect the work you put into these articles, you obviously spend a lot of time researching before you write the articles (I do similar on times, I am more of a sunshiner though, trying to look on the positive side of things when there is so much negitivity floating around. Mainly so I can feel better about the bad times), my biggest gripe is that the articles generally have very little point to them. (read entire comment for reasons as to why it's not really a bad thing)

    I know it's an age old argument (well age old being since Torres arrived). End of the day both are fantastic players and a choice between the two, it's hard to just say, it depends on the team around them. I personally think each player are tailor made to play in their respective teams. They both have niche roles and are effective at the job they need to achieve.

    Torres at Athletico Madrid had a different role, he was not a goal machine then. Rafa has found Torres position, it's debatable whether he would be able to score at such a rate at another club. Something I would not even like to see tested as it would mean him leaving Liverpool.

    I dislike Rooney as a person, he has a bad attitude and not a very good role model in that aspect. However he is a world class player and he can do things that Torres can't and vice versa.

    I am enjoying the recent articles, even though there is a lot I disagree with, however you write well and I am starting to come back to read more and more of it. A lot of the articles in question appear pointless as an article on it's own. It always sparks a good debate though and that is the signs of a good writer.

    Keep it up.

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  42. 10 Goals this season so far, and most without Gerrard, so your point is not valid. Keep searching though :p

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  43. Rooney is the most overrated striker in the premier league. No one outside of England (or possibly the US) would ever mention him in the same breath as the likes of Torres, Drogba, Ibrahimovic and Ronaldo.

    Jamie, I have a theory that Rooney's stats would be a lot closer to Emile Heskey's than to Torres. Any chance of doing a comparison between Rooney and Heskey?

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  44. Excellent point Jamie...wonderful observation...

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  45. Even More proof that Dimitar Berbatov is a better Striker than Fernando Torres,

    in both there first 3 seasons in the Premiere League Torres scored 67 goals in all competions compared to Berbatovs 65

    However Berbatov assisted 38 goals while Torres managed just 12

    There for Dimitar Berbatov is attacking player than Fernando Torres,

    that is all

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  46. 1. Torres has only been in the Premership for 2 full seasons, not 3 (2007-08; 2008-9.  Berbatov was at Spurs in 2006-7)

    2. Comparing the two full seasons:

    * Torres: Goals (50 goals/9 assists = 59 total)

    * Berbatov: (34 goals/23 asists = 57 total)

    Yo included goals scored in International games in your original figure, as well as all goals/assists from the 2006/7 season when Torres was still in Spain.

    So - as you can see, Torres still comes out on top overall, but Berbatov is clearly on a par creatively for those two season, which is fair enough.

    Both are way ahead of Rooney.

    I suspect though that Torres GPG + GPM average would be far ahead of Berbatov's.

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  47. I think I've stumbled upon the wrong site here.  I was looking for anti-Rafa articles.

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  48. here's a question it's a bit of a what came first like the chicken or the egg, who had aids first torres or carragher?

    Torres better than Rooney pull the other one you stupid dippers, if the reasoning is he scores the same or more then that puts darren bent in the same catagory as the pair for this season. then again the education service is a complete failure your dump end of the lancs

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  49. I wonder if Benitez uses this method when he buys players, hence his wonderful statistic whilst at the club!

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  50. For me it difficult to compare the two strikers in question, Rooney is not an outright striker, imo, i think he's more of a support striker, whereas Torres is an outright striker, who I think is absolutely lethal in that role. Ideally you might wish to be in the position where you play one behind the other

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  51. This really is a no-brainer. Although Jaimie is big into statistics to back himself up and so on, here is one where they aren't needed.
    Rooney in a good season MAY get over 20 goals, but Torres will still outscore him even if he only plays half as many games.
    Both have contrasting styles: Rooney more a centre-forward who'll arrive late in the box or put himself about outside of it, Torres who plays on the last man and isn't much use outside of it, this is not negative by the way, it just means that he switches on when the ball goes forward. The proof is how other teams play against them.
    Torres can be anonymous and still score goals(Fulham). If Rooney's anonymous, he drops back and puts himself about, but isn't likely to conjure a goal out of nothing(any more!).
    If United substitute Rooney, it's not a big deal. If Liverpool substitute Torres, it is.
    People can say that that is over-reliance but that doesn't do it for me. Torres' actual presence is enough to unnerve some teams and they sit back further thus allowing Liverpool on to them more. This has also been recently proven. Rooney's all-round game means he fits into the unit well at United but also means he is less of a decisive factor by himself so other teams don't worry about him specifically.
    Now look if you had the choice of bringing on one of these two players for your team and you're 2-1 down with 15mins to go, who would you bring on? Everybody who has half an idea about football wouldn't like to impart the news but Wayne would be further enhancing his bench-warming skills.

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  52. No. I'd rather Torres. Rooney may score a goal, but Torres will. If I could, I'd swap them tomorrow. Say what you want about Benitez, but you definitely have to take your hat off to him on that one.

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  53. hahaha.....typical stubborn mancs, havent got a clue. Face facts, Torres is the worlds most feared striker and any defender in the world will plop in his undies if they have to come up against him (even when hes injured) so for all your berbatov (frank sidebottom) and rooney (mr granny-fanny) touts (and lets not even go down the route of vidic or rio-splutter-splutter-sniff-sniff-ferdinand)....you still need to accept that your strikers are 2nd best!

    as for the education down our end, we get taught maths and english unlike toes and chav-text which you get taught like the ugly, interbread rat-species you's are!

    P.S: how many mancs does it take to change a lightbulb? 0 because theyve all got webbed hands!

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  54. SOME of you may be aware of the blog Liverpool-Kop, run by Jaimie Kanwar, who claims to be a fan of Liverpool Football Club.

    READ

    http://robbohuyton.blogspot.com/2009/10/revealed-most-negative-liverpool-fc.html

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  55. Is rooney an outright striker, I dont think so.

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  56. ok...this topic is just going too far...
    there's no need to get proof and write it down - it's obvious.

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