For the last few months, this site has attacked Liverpool FC fan’s group ‘Spirit if Shankly’ for its juvenile, counter-productive approach to ousting Liverpool FC’s owners. After raising awareness, putting SOS under public pressure and showing how the majority of fans are against their ‘Yank Liars Out!’ campaign, it seems that SOS has now realized that in order to be taken seriously, organized mob-mentality is not the right way to do things.
The issue of how SOS chooses to represent Liverpool fans has been debated in the following threads over the last few months:
GILLETT'S COMMENTS: Amid the Xenophobia + sensationalism, fans are missing one important thing…
GEORGE GILLETT interview: Did it REALLY happen? I'm not so sure. And here's why...
POLL: Is Spirit of Shankly's xenophobic “YANK LIARS OUT” approach compatible with the ‘Liverpool Way’?
POLL: “YANK LIARS OUT”: Is SOS’s approach compatible with the ‘Liverpool Way’ doing things?
In the post "George Gillett interview: Did it really happen" my ulterior motive was to draw out representatives of SOS onto a public forum in order to engage them in discussion about their ‘Yank Liars Out’ mantra. This worked, and in that thread, Graham Smith (Secretary of SOS) demanded that I print a retraction for the story. I replied offering SOS the following deal:
“I have a deal for you: remove all references to YANKS from your site and literature (including Yank Liars out! etc) and promise Liverpool fans that such derogatory terms will not be used again, and I will remove the article from my site”.
Graham replied:
“No, sorry it doesn't work like that. You have published an article that makes allegations of fabrication, fraud and embellishment without any evidence of your own. You now try and squirm away from this by linking a retraction to the Union's website and campaign tactics. Well this sort of sleight of hand will not work”.
As I said above, my goal was to anger SOS reps to the extent that they felt the need to defend the organization in public, which is what they did. Having done that, I could raise the issue of their derogatory approach to Hicks and Gillett in public, capture their responses for the record, and allow other fans the chance to directly challenge them in a public forum.
Liverpool fans voted in our poll and made their position very clear:
1600 fans have voted so far, and the majority are clearly in favour of SOS becoming a more professional organization.
Well, this concerted pressure on SOS seems to have worked. In an interview with Gareth Roberts’ LFC blog ‘Well Red’, the following question was asked:
WR: The use of the word 'Yanks' on the SOS website and in banners/literature etc has been highlighted by some critics who accuse the union of being xenophobic. What's your response?
To which SOS responded:
"Recently, we have been working on a new campaign called 'Tom and George - You're not welcome here' along with banners such as 'Tom and George - You Tell Lie$' so it further highlights how we are not intending to be xenophobic in our pursuit to get the owners out. Our quarrels are with Hicks and Gillett as individuals and not as a nationality".
It appears that SOS has seen the light and has acknowledged that a xenophobic approach is not the way forward. Not only that, all traces of the 'Yank Liars Out' mantra appears to have been removed from their website.
SOS will, of course, never admit that they were shamed into changing their tune by this site, and the fans who voted in the poll, but given the fact no other media entity or Liverpool FC site had ever raised the issue before, this clearly must be the case.
So - well done to all those Liverpool fans who voted for change. Well done to all those fans who tried to persuade others that attacking the Owners on a personal level was crass and undignified.
Having a fan’s group is a great idea, and one that I and other Liverpool fans would love to support, but only if it is a professional organization acting in line with the Liverpool Way of doing things.
Hopefully this is the first step to SOS becoming a fan’s group of which ALL fans can be proud.
NB. I personally do not agree that the Owners should be ousted as I believe that the long-term future for the club is looking more encouraging all the time.
Sometimes, things have to get worse before they get better.
That has definitely been the case off the pitch, and (unfortunately) the same principle applies to the way things are on the pitch at the moment.
However, any fair-minded person can see that Liverpool is making great strides off the pitch, and I'm sure that this will be reflected on the pitch sooner rather than later.
Jaimie Kanwar
----
Join the site's new Facebook page!
The issue of how SOS chooses to represent Liverpool fans has been debated in the following threads over the last few months:
GILLETT'S COMMENTS: Amid the Xenophobia + sensationalism, fans are missing one important thing…
GEORGE GILLETT interview: Did it REALLY happen? I'm not so sure. And here's why...
POLL: Is Spirit of Shankly's xenophobic “YANK LIARS OUT” approach compatible with the ‘Liverpool Way’?
POLL: “YANK LIARS OUT”: Is SOS’s approach compatible with the ‘Liverpool Way’ doing things?
In the post "George Gillett interview: Did it really happen" my ulterior motive was to draw out representatives of SOS onto a public forum in order to engage them in discussion about their ‘Yank Liars Out’ mantra. This worked, and in that thread, Graham Smith (Secretary of SOS) demanded that I print a retraction for the story. I replied offering SOS the following deal:
“I have a deal for you: remove all references to YANKS from your site and literature (including Yank Liars out! etc) and promise Liverpool fans that such derogatory terms will not be used again, and I will remove the article from my site”.
Graham replied:
“No, sorry it doesn't work like that. You have published an article that makes allegations of fabrication, fraud and embellishment without any evidence of your own. You now try and squirm away from this by linking a retraction to the Union's website and campaign tactics. Well this sort of sleight of hand will not work”.
As I said above, my goal was to anger SOS reps to the extent that they felt the need to defend the organization in public, which is what they did. Having done that, I could raise the issue of their derogatory approach to Hicks and Gillett in public, capture their responses for the record, and allow other fans the chance to directly challenge them in a public forum.
Liverpool fans voted in our poll and made their position very clear:
1600 fans have voted so far, and the majority are clearly in favour of SOS becoming a more professional organization.
Well, this concerted pressure on SOS seems to have worked. In an interview with Gareth Roberts’ LFC blog ‘Well Red’, the following question was asked:
WR: The use of the word 'Yanks' on the SOS website and in banners/literature etc has been highlighted by some critics who accuse the union of being xenophobic. What's your response?
To which SOS responded:
"Recently, we have been working on a new campaign called 'Tom and George - You're not welcome here' along with banners such as 'Tom and George - You Tell Lie$' so it further highlights how we are not intending to be xenophobic in our pursuit to get the owners out. Our quarrels are with Hicks and Gillett as individuals and not as a nationality".
It appears that SOS has seen the light and has acknowledged that a xenophobic approach is not the way forward. Not only that, all traces of the 'Yank Liars Out' mantra appears to have been removed from their website.
SOS will, of course, never admit that they were shamed into changing their tune by this site, and the fans who voted in the poll, but given the fact no other media entity or Liverpool FC site had ever raised the issue before, this clearly must be the case.
So - well done to all those Liverpool fans who voted for change. Well done to all those fans who tried to persuade others that attacking the Owners on a personal level was crass and undignified.
Having a fan’s group is a great idea, and one that I and other Liverpool fans would love to support, but only if it is a professional organization acting in line with the Liverpool Way of doing things.
Hopefully this is the first step to SOS becoming a fan’s group of which ALL fans can be proud.
NB. I personally do not agree that the Owners should be ousted as I believe that the long-term future for the club is looking more encouraging all the time.
Sometimes, things have to get worse before they get better.
That has definitely been the case off the pitch, and (unfortunately) the same principle applies to the way things are on the pitch at the moment.
However, any fair-minded person can see that Liverpool is making great strides off the pitch, and I'm sure that this will be reflected on the pitch sooner rather than later.
Jaimie Kanwar
----
Join the site's new Facebook page!
I guess amidst all your tripe about rafa and his spending, one thing that is usually absent from this site is criticism of Hicks and Gillette.
ReplyDeleteFor proof , look at the list of articles above , all we have are rafa this rafa that. Where is your articles about the broken promises of Hicks and Gillette. Or anything positive about LFC.
I guess now we know whose side this site has been on. As i said before in my last post that you conveniently edited, your time is up and your game is out. Not only a Mancunian , but a G & H sympathizer.
Who is this Jaimie Kanwar bloke? I suppose anybody can set up a blog, but I'd like to know what qualifies this guy to be a voice of Liverpool FC that should carry any weight?
ReplyDeleteThe ignorance in your post is astounding to the point I thought about not responding, but I will:
ReplyDelete1. Where are my articles about anything 'positive about LFC'?! You destory your own credibility here by not being fair. Click the 'POSITIVE ARTICLES link in the label cloud to the right. You will find dozens of positive stuff. but it doesn't suit your argument to acknowledge that, does it? ;)
2. Click the HICKS AND GILLETT link in thre label cloud. Scan the list of articles and you will see critical articles about the owners.
3. Your view is stunningly simplistic, and is indicative of the simplistic way a large section of Liverpool fans view the current situation.
' H+G sympathiser'. Could you BE anymore childish?!
It is not as black and white as that. I treat everyone and every issue the same: if something needs to be criticised, It will be, and that applies to Rafa, the owners, players or anyone connected with LFC.
Liverpool are in the midst of the worst run in 50 years but people like you STILL will not accept criticism of the deity that is Rafa Benitez!
Tell me - when does it become acceptable for Benitez to be criticised without rabid fans jumping on anyone with audacity to do so?!
You talk about broken promises from the owners, but you're not looking at the bigger picture. They were not broken 'promises' - the Owners planned to do exactly what they say re the stadium etc (this is confirmed in LFC's annual reports), but the economic climate changed and thus original plans had to change.
The reason you and others will not accept this - and STILL keep banging on about 'having a spade in the ground within 60 days' is because you're viewing things on a personal level and are failing to be objective.
SOS has whipped everyone into a 'Hate the Yanks!' frenzy, and this has clouded the judgment of Liverpool fans.
And even though there is plenty of evidence that things are getting better, fans are still referring back to things that happen 2 and a half years ago.
You and others like you are living in the past. Start living in the present and start looking to the future.
12 pieces of silver......
ReplyDeleteOh yeah , i looked at the drivel you have on your cloud. Its more like fly's sitting on poo. I clicked the first enlightened article here,
ReplyDelete<span>http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/10/hicks-gillett-truth-about-liverpool-fcs.html.</span>
<span>You are practically banging the H & G drum all by your lonesome.</span>
You are trying to justify how we are better off than Arsenal, who are paying for a new stadium and Chelsea , who is just a billionaries plaything.
<span>I guess good marketing doesn't stop with a new shirt deal , but also to mislead our supporters worldwide and to paint our beloved owners in angelic light. Go own Goeblos, edit this one out too. </span>
You are beyond help. Seriously, as long as you have such irrational hatred for the owners you are never going to be able to see things clearly.
ReplyDeleteAnd, of course, you misrepresented what I was arguing in the article, but that's to be expected.
And yes, if you keep including derogatory comments in your posts, I will edit them out. Then I will just tire of that and ban you permanently.
You're perfectly welcome to air your views and challenge me, but do it in the right way.
two words. screw you. you can help the yanks wank for all i care.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry but you are really out of touch with what Liverpool Supporters here in Liverpool think. I agree some of the things SOS do are cringeworthy, but the marches against the owners they organise are supported by the majority of Reds on Merseyside.
ReplyDeleteSadly mate you don't have a clue
jamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeleteI'm out of touch?
ReplyDeleteYou state 'the marches against the owners...are supported by the majority of Reds on Merseyside'.
How exactly do you know that?! Did you conduct a survey?
I did a survey on this site and 60% of fans were against SOS's stance.
SOS has 500 members - the worldwide fanbase is in the tens of millions. Given that the majority of the club;s fans are OUTSIDE Liverpool and OUTSIDE the UK, I have a feeling that those fans might not take too kindly to a supporter's group being Xenophobic.
But then, as we all know, only fans who live in Liverpool and go to games matter, right?
jamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeleteStop posting the same comment over and over again.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeleteHey lfc, actually, I agree with Jaimie, because to be xenophobic is bad. Simple as that.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeletejamie, i dont think i have ever read an article on this site and agreed with what you have said. i see most of the responses and hardly anyone has ever agreed with what you say. i like to think of myself of being a fairly objective person and would always consider both sides first. i would be very surprised if you actually believed half of the stuff you publish. fair enough u want hits for your site so well done for that. i can only imagine that you are always trying to play devils advocate in some of the most one sided arguments among fans. again that is your prerogative. you would gain a lot more respect by actually publishing decent articles with well founded facts. i would really like one day to see a decent article from you and i think you are capable of doing that but you seem to choose not to. no doubt you will try and shoot my comments down but unfortunately for you i am more mature than to rise to any baiting. anyway i hope you take my constructive criticism on board. i will still visit your site in the hope that one day you say something useful and interesting. also, what benitez has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle. we have had countless managers since king kenny who have not even come close to sorting our club out like that man has. if we lost him we would be in big trouble.
ReplyDeleteJaimie - I think your article is somewhat self congratulatory. I think you don't do yourself any credit by posting communication between yourselves and SOS. That's also very unprofessional. Whatever SOS are, they have been a voice for LFC supporters. Yes they have made mistakes, and we all know that you love to point out mistakes, but they have done more good than bad. Whilst I do agree that it's xenophobic to use phrases like "Yanks out", the way you harp on about it leads me to believe you have a hidden agenda. In fact, sometimes your articles are Stan Collymore esque!
ReplyDeleteYou do appear to be rather pro Hicks and Gillette. Those 2 never had the money Liverpool needed to move forward and I think it was always their intention to sweat the club's image off the field to achieve the goal of building a stadium and funding new players. They never had any intention of significantly dipping their hands in their own pocket. With the right investors we would be well on the way to constructing a new stadium. Whilst I see Gillette and Hicks are showing their skills in increasing revenues, it is clear that we are truly going to have to sell our soul as a club even further to move forward. All supporters resent the way we have been lied to and it doesn't matter what they do, they have alienated themselves from the club's supporters forever.
One thing to your credit - your articles are quite enjoyable to read and stimulate debate. Whilst I think you go out of your way to be controversial, you get people thinking. A reluctant well done from me on that score ;)
Jeez , Jamie, even tottenham has plans to revamp white heart lane. If Levy can get funds for a stadium why cant H & G. For more on Hicks and his soccer model look no further than what happened to Corinthian. Champions of Brazil, World Club Cup Champions b4 hicks came in, relegated in 2007. I am surprised that you have never mentioned them, such a staunch fan of Liverpool that u are.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Rafa is not the best manager, i agree with that. But these guys dont know shit about Liverpool club. Don't have the balls to invest, and the club has been paying for their ownership and bleeding itself to death.
Excellent stuff Jamie. The "yanks out" campaigning has always been cringeworthy and an embarassment to the history and traditions of this great club and city. I did once try to raise this point on RAWK but it was a hopeless task as the sheep there couldn't see how idiotic it made Liverpool fans look.
ReplyDeleteI think a growing number of fans are much more tolerant and understanding of our owners that certain heavily moderated sites like RAWK(which have their own agenda) would have us believe. The intelligent Liverpool fans can see clear signs of progress off the field and are not blinded by the uninformed and hysterical ranting of some fans who have little fact to back them up.
Anyone who chants "yanks out" is a complete moron. End of.
If SOS want to be taken seriously they need to start acting like an intelligent voice and not a bunch of knuckle-dragging cave-dwellers, which many of them come across as.
Vishy - the exchange between myself and SOS is already public - it occurred in the comments section of this post:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/10/george-gillett-interview-did-it-really.html
It's not like there was private email communication and I posted the contents of the emails! The comments are public and have been for weeks.
You state:
I do agree that it's xenophobic to use phrases like "Yanks out", the way you harp on about it leads me to believe you have a hidden agenda.
Of course I have an agenda, but it is not hidden. My agenda is to stop Liverpool fans being painted as ignorant yobs with a mob-mentality.
Those 2 never had the money Liverpool needed to move forward and I think it was always their intention to sweat the club's image off the field to achieve the goal of building a stadium and funding new players. They never had any intention of significantly dipping their hands in their own pocket. With the right investors we would be well on the way to constructing a new stadium.
With all due respect, this is pure unfounded supposition and smacks of SOS-style argument, i.e. unfounded accustations.
All supporters resent the way we have been lied to and it doesn't matter what they do, they have alienated themselves from the club's supporters forever.
All supporters? Isn't that a massivel generalisation? Also, I'd be interested to know how you feel the fans have ben 'lied to', to the extent that the owners have apparently 'alienated themselves from the club's supporters forever'.
These must some appalling, unforgiveable lies! I would appreciate it if you could list these alleged lies.
Thanks :)
With respect, your views are typical of the brainwashed masses of Liverpool fans who believe everything SOS/The media tells them.
ReplyDeleteI would urge you to think a little more critically before accepting everything you read. You state:
Jeez , Jamie, even tottenham has plans to revamp white heart lane. If Levy can get funds for a stadium why cant H & G.
Spurs have announced a plan. Does that mean it is actually going to happen? NO. Levy does NOT have the funds in place yet. There is noi start date. In fact, there is nothing going on apart from the announcement of a plan.
Anyone can announce something; implementing it is a completely different thing. so using that as a way of suggesting H+G are not doing the right thing for the club is completely false. let's see Spurs actually start the stadium process and then we'll talk.
On a related note - Arsenal tool 7 years to build the Emirates, and missed their original deadline by 3 years. H+G have been at the club for less than 3 years.
Good point on the tottenham reply. Granted you maybe correct.But makes you wonder who has bigger balls, Levys pair or two sets of H & G. These guys cant even pay the mortgage without selling furniture and levy wants more seats. They also have a higher payroll for a Carling cup side. Shame. You get what you paid for, they say in America. I also admit that i am a ex pat yank , and still dont take offence to SoS. A<span> bunch of knuckle-dragging cave-dwellers as one of the posters called me.</span>
ReplyDeleteHow about the Corinthian story. You are so quick to stab all our answers out. i wonder if i caught you out cold this time. Awaiting kind response from Messrs H & G PR agency.
<span>let's see Spurs actually start the stadium process and then we'll talk.
ReplyDeleteBy then it will be too late. <span></span></span>
Thank you so much for being logical about this... I swear this is the only place I can find people who actually look at facts instead of just scream "YANKS OUT" and then proclaim their undying support for Benitez. It really is sickening...
ReplyDeleteHow do Spurs have a higher payroll than us? I assume you mean the wage bill? Ours is nearly 40M higher than spurs.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01416/ARFF_2009_Table_3__1416113a.pdf
Spurs wage bill - 53M. Liverpool wage bill -90M. And this is before recent contract increases were included
Did Sos feed you this complete innaccuracy by any chance?
Seems you missed a little bit from the response to the xenophobia question, about 2/3rds of it you decided to cut for some reason.
ReplyDelete"Yanks is a shortened version of Yankees and is a playful colloquial term for Americans used in Commonwealth countries since World War 2. It was not meant to be derogatory and having American members of SOS illustrates this. It was used as a shorter term in banners and chants to help relay the message about the owners.
Recently, we have been working on a new campaign called 'Tom and George - You're not welcome here' along with banners such as 'Tom and George - You Tell Lie$' so it further highlights how we are not intending to be xenophobic in our pursuit to get the owners out. Our quarrels are with Hicks and Gillett as individuals and not as a nationality.
Also, if using the term 'Yanks' was really deemed to be xenophobic why are possibly the most successful baseball team in America called the New York Yankees? Surely if it was so offensive they would be called something else?"
Also, with your poll recording 1350 votes, I find it ironic that you claim SOS doesn't speak for the majority of fans, yet your poll clearly does? I was part of the march before the Man U game, and a few thousand fans seemed to agree with SOS as they joined in the march. The difference? SOS don't claim to be representative of all fans, only for their members.
Michael - I left it out because it's a poor justification that misses the point.
ReplyDeleteIt is just incredibly lame to make coimpare the use of 'Yank', with 'Yankee'. The context needs to be considered here: when you put LIAR after YANK, it takes on a whole new meaning: it becomes a negative.
Is 'New York Yankees' a negative phrase? No.
Furthermore, it is not about how offensive the word is per se; it is about how a group with a mantra of YANK LIARS OUT will be perceived.
SOS state 'it was not meant to be derogatory', - it may not be to them - and SOS may not think it's xenophobic - but that doesn't mean that a large section of Liverpool's worldwide fanbase will feel the same.
Xenophobia is distasteful and unnecessary, and given the fact 95% (or more) of the club's worldwide fansbase lives outside the UK, it is inadvisable to proceed in a way that might alienate non-UK based fans.
That is, of course, presupposing that SOS cares about the views of non-UK fans.
Ultimately, when groups of football fans maraud through the streets chanting YANK LIARS OUT, it conjures up an image of yobs with mob-mentality and football hooliganism, things that are not conducive to the image of a professional organisation.
I don't see how you can credibly argue that 'YANK LIARS OUT' is an effective campaign and/or a good way for a supposed professional organisation to behave.
In any even, it is clear that such an approach has no credibility, which is why SOS probably feels forced into a change.
So let me get this straight. You're not stating that the term Yanks itself (depending on definition of course, as it changes where you're from) is not xenophobic. Now I know you seem to have difficulty with it, but I would like to think, given the evidence at hand, that Tom and George have effectively lied to us supporters. So Liars is fact. Yet somehow by combining the two it's suddenly xenophobic? Of course the statement itself is negative. When you want someone out, or to leave, you're not exactly going to be positive to them. The leap to xenophobia is ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course SOS cares about the views of it's non UK members. It actually has a position on the committee for that exact job! To communicate with the non UK members and bring forward their views to the committee.
When I picture yobs, I picture people causing disruption and destruction to the area. We were marching through the streets, sending out our message with passion in a physically peaceful manner.
Michael excellent points here, unlike the author.
ReplyDeleteHa ha ha ha.
ReplyDeleteThe Union's last comment on this drivel.
And this is the kind of person Liverpool fans want running a fan's group?! You're a credit to the union, Graham ;)
ReplyDeleteAnd you wonder why SOS struggles to get about 5000 members.
No, Michael. The way it which SOS using the term 'Yank' is, in my view Xenophobic. However, what you fail to acknowledge is that there will be other fans out there who think the use of the word is Xenophobic.
ReplyDeleteBut as I keep saying, it's about how the group is perceived. I'll make a legal analogy - for a Judge to retain credibility, he/she must be impartial and BE SEEN TO BE impartial. That means doing nothing that could allow anyone to infer that the judge is biased.
The same principle applies to SOS. It must be professional AND BE SEEN TO BE professional.
From the outside looking-in, no group that has Yank Liars Out as their mantra can be seen to be professional.
definetly a stooge for the incumbent owners ...mind numbing tosh
ReplyDeleteyou expect that in the propaganda war which has been waged that you may brainwash certain people with the constant drivel with which you spout but for the battle hardened hardcore your words are just that ...if nothing else the incredulous stuff you write does make me chuckle on how out of touch you are ... if you want to be taken seriously ..a word of advice....drop the anti union stance and get with the programme !
Sir yes sir!
ReplyDeleteNOT.
Why make any reference to the owners being Yanks at all? What as any reference to their nationality got to do with anything?
ReplyDeleteIf the owners were from Nigeria would you ever chant or make banners with "African's out" on them? Doubt it.
If they were from the middle-east would you chant "Arabs out"? Doubt it.
It's a cheap lazy slogan that should never have been used and nobody with any sense would follow an organization that condoned it. SoS are deluded if they think stomping about chanting yanks out makes them look anything other than moronic.
Clearly they are now changing their approach and not before time. I think they should thank Jamie for highlighting their own stupidity to them :-P
yet again noone from H & G has anything to say on the corinthian link. Absurb
ReplyDeleteSteve you troll, that is a 2007 table . next time look up your references b4 you post them. and start lambasting people.
ReplyDeletelet me remind you during WW2, the japs were put in intern camps for 2 years, the post sep 11 arabs are regularly profiled for terror links. This is a war. Lets get them out first , then we'll look at the methods
ReplyDeleteto be honest Jaimie, you're just a gobshite.(with a website)
ReplyDeleteCan I say that, is that allowed or shall i dress it up in a nicer syntax and say I have little respect for you opinions and sensational agendas?
Is that more palatable?
All this ultra PC stuff you're spouting about xenophobia is a whitewash. (Oops is that racist now?).
It's a redwash?
That's better isn't it?
someone correct me if i'm wrong but SOS pulled 1000 (approx) fans to their rally at the Utd game.
they're a faction at Anfield.
However there's a few connected and prominent people amongst their number thus meetings with purslow appear to me mere lipservice from LFC but it's one to watch with interest.
they're a bunch of lads who were brought up and lived through the 1980s on merseyside where direct action against the goverment, the ESTABLISHMENT, that was fucking Merseyside over which led to mass unemployment, riots, social deprivation, systematic and complete run down of entire communities and what seemed liked weekly street marches, rallies etc etc, there was no room for pussy footing around these issues, the government were called what they were, a bunch of upper class cunts intent on shafting the working classes for capitalist gain.
This is were SOS are coming from, frankly I'd prefer it if they nailed their colours (red of course) to the mast and went for the throat of the owners but in all likelyhood they're holding back kind of for the reasons you're expounding coupled with a tacit acknowledgment that most LFC fans that go the game simply want matters on the pitch to be the talking points, in the old days we never had to take on the owners just Borussia Munchengladbach, Man Utd and winning the league in 10 day was enough.
It's the "modern" method to be all polite and respectful in trying to beat your enemy, it's certainly always been the way of socialism to win the argument, the moral issue, irrespective almost of the final outcome and it's pretty much on these terms that SOS are hands down winners irrespective of G&H scurrilous capitalist tactics.
G&H have been downright disrespectful on occassion to the LFC family, that's the fans, the manager, the tea ladies etc and without doubt told a few (and very particualr) BIG fuck off lies that they're still to account for or make good of.
I think that's what you need to bear in mind, the collective community that is the old school hardcore Liverpool (merseyside) fanbase.
When G&H made a farce of LFC (poking at Rafa, decieving everyone over stadium promises they spat in our faces - this still hasn't been put right although they seem to have tempered their comments lately, maybe they are learning but lets be honest, look at how they've mismanaaged not only the club but themselves - it's with some irony then that it's taken the formation of SOS to pull them into shape - I'd say that was rather flattering to G&H as they're still floating down shit creek with the clubin tow.
Yes they've had the good grace to back Rafa with a few $$'s but its scant consolation for the mess they've made and it's pretty clear we're left with next to nothing with whch to continue to build a winning squad when the instructions are one in one out an the likes of voronin are brought in on a wing and a prayer that they'll come good.
Maybe Klinnsmann would have bought better players though?
Taking on the yankee dollar (see, it it was alright for "the skids" to sing that offensive term into the top 40 in the 1980's, even the BBC didn't ban the song but that was in the 1980s before xenophobia was bad)) is where SOS are fighting a losing battle and it's highly likely that the "yanks" - that's Mr Hicks,sir and Mr Gillet,sir to those who don't understand the language of the uneducated guttersnipe, [...]
Professional?
ReplyDeleteer . . . . like G&H lambasting the manager in public? like lying to devoted, hard working fans?
are you sure you understand the meaning of the word?
Don't you think it applies to all, especially texans?
where's my fucking post?
ReplyDeleteJamie, u talk about SOS having to do things the liverpool way, when experts like yourself, ronnie whelan and Stan collymore write articles and slate the manager at every hands turn.And at times when support is needed the most not knee jerk criticism,,that is not the liverpool way. all 3 of you claim to be liverpool fans but a real fan know's better than to increase the pressure on the team in a time of need, so basically that comment you made about the liverpool way is hypocritical.
ReplyDeleteI know you will point to positive articles you have written about Rafa, but you and I both know you only wrote those articles because you realised that shams like whelan,collymore and cascarino were singing from the same hymn sheet as yourself and you finally realised that your stance was far too sensationalist and short sighted and that it made you look a bit silly...
You are not very well liked among large sections of liverpool fans and I believe Rafa told Tomkins as much when he kindly gave the journalist a day out at melwood, an invitation u are unlikely to ever receive... I know you get alot of readers but then again so does the Sun newspaper..
I don't agree with what SOS are doing either. What possible solution can they see coming from their protests? Ok maybe Hicks & Gillett might be forced to sell up and move on but their protests will surely create a negative impression on possible investors. Then you have to ask yourself about the people who may be willing to invest? I get the impression that SOS have their heads so firmly buried in the sand that they all believe that some mega rich tycoon is going to come in and throw money hand over fist at the club...
ReplyDeleteI am gutted that we are still waiting for the new ground and I am annoyed that it seems they are investing very little into the club for transfers but at the same time I believe they are looking at LFC as a long term investment - one that needs a solid foundation from which to grow on. I think if you look at things off the pitch it is clear to all that they are slowly building our club back up to greatness. Every month we seem to hear about new partnerships and sponsorship deals around the world.
Moores and Parry spent the last decade just getting by while the Mancs built an empire and now we can see the results of this. Man Utd have more debt than us but noone blinks an eyelid over it, why? It is because they are so commercially successful and successful on the pitch. Hicks & Gillett want LFC to rival Man Utd commercially and have set out to do this without crippling the club. Yes we have debts but they can be managed. They are clearly struggling to find the correct balance between building a title winning team and balancing the books but they are certainly getting there. The expected investment coming in January is another example of this.
I believe that by the summer we will have a clear indication of which way the Americans are taking us. If they continue to limit Rafa's spending so that he has to continue purchasing several average players then we will know that they are more interested in the commercial side of the club and will probably cash in as soon as they can. I, on the otherhand, am hoping to see Rafa given what he needs - that is the backing to go out and buy one or two big name players without having to sacrifice elsewhere.
60% looks good but what is the sample size of your survey i.e. how many people participated in your survey?
ReplyDeleteBrian - you're a hypocrite. You slag off the owners at every opportunity but say I am increasing pressue on the team by being critical. You and SOS bring far more negative attention onto LFC than I ever will.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm 'not very well-liked among large sections of Liverpool fans'. How would you know?! Given the fact that 95% + of liverpool fans are outside England, how do you know that?
Perhaps you should remember that Liverpool fans do not just reside in Liverpool. Your insularity is highly amusing.
Anyway, I'm not in this for adulation or validation. If people don't like me, fine! Anyway, I usually find that the people that object to me are the Liverpool-based superfans who think that anyone who wasn't born in Liverpool is somehow an imposter. if I annoy them, GOOD.
Oh, and Rafa told Tomkins about me and this site? Yeah, right. I think Rafa has more important things to worry about than this website, don't you?
Tomkins is a yes-man, which is why he is embraced by LFC. They know that Tomkins will deify the club, its players and the manager, and be positive about everything and will never offer needed criticism.
I won't do that, and if that means I'm an outsider, then so be it!
Lambasting? Are the owners not entitled to answer questions and/or clarify misconceptions? And let's not forget that it was benitez who brought everything into the public domain in the first place. He criticised the owners in public; he put on a petulant display at a press conference. he forced the owners to defend themselves.
ReplyDeleteI'll admit that 2 wrongs don't make a right but we're all human beings here - mistakes get made,a dn to suggest the only people culpabel here are the Owners just displays your staggering inability to be fair.
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ReplyDelete<p><span>Anyway, I usually find that the people that object to me are the Liverpool-based superfans who think that anyone who wasn't born in Liverpool is somehow an imposter. if I annoy them, GOOD.</span>
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</p><p>Actually, you're pretty annoying to me as well and I'm a so-called Yank.
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</p><p>I'm actually a different breed of Liverpool fan. I do support SOS, yes, but at best I am a casual fan. As my fiancé has pointed out in the past, I chose to join SOS because the way that Hicks and Gillett treat the fans and the organization itself. I fully support my fiancé in what he does, but when he asked me if I would consider joining, I grilled him pretty heavily regarding SOS's goals, and even the use of the word "Yanks." See, I'm originally from Alabama and to call me a "Yank" is technically an insult. Growing up, "Yanks" were people north of the Mason-Dixon line. However, outside of the country, Americans in general are frequently called Yanks. I was even called one during my recent trip to Liverpool and I wasn't insulted. It has nowhere near the negative connotations that "Jap" or "Chink" or "N----r" does. Those terms, to me, are very xenophobic.
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</p><p>I don't blindly follow what my fiancé does. So I read the Web site very throughly, and the group did come across as professional to me. I was impressed with the foundation that they had laid. It's not going to just suddenly spring to life overnight. People were expecting President Obama to magically fix everything in his first few days in office, and he hasn't yet. He's doing is best and so is SOS. You go to their site and the first thing you get is a listing of short-, mid- and long-term goals. That's pretty professional to me.
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</p><p>If you want an organization that is suppose to remain impartial, look to the judicial system or the media (in most cases, there are sadly some gross exceptions.) SOS can't be impartial. Their goals are, as quoted from the site itself, to "represent the best interests of the supporters of Liverpool Football Club." When you have that goal, you've already taken sides.
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</p><p>I chose to join SOS not just because Mike did, but because I don't think any sports team should be treated the way that Hicks and Gillett are treating LFC and its fans. I recently visited Liverpool for the first time, even went to my first game - the loss to Lyon. After reading up on the history of the team and talking to Mike's dad, who has been a fan for more years than either of us has been alive. When I was in the Kop ... it's an experience that is hard to describe. This is what the football experience should be, more than the slick commercialism that is being applied to more and more sports. It's in the Kop that you're reminded of football's roots - as a working man's game. LFC was built on the strength of its fans, just like any good sports team.
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</p><p>I attended the University of Alabama, where we had our own Bill Shankley, Paul "Bear" Bryant. I played in the marching band for all four years. Each year, the coach of the team would come out and address the band members before the start of the season. These men (we had two coaches during my time there) would remind us that the supporters are the core of the success of the team. The same thing is true here. When men like Hicks (who is proof that nothing good comes out of Texas, see example A, the previous president of my country) and Gillett forget that, then nothing good will ever come [...]
How strange. A thread which lambasts SOS for their diatribe against the American owners but which is in itself little more than a diatribe against SOS!
ReplyDeleteJust to make a point: disagreeing with you Jamie does not mean we 'believe everything we are fed by SOS/The Media' nor does having an alternative viewpoint mean someone is 'beyond help' so before you seek to remove the speck of dust in other people's eyes regarding personal comments, maybe you should remove the plank from your own?
Red
Like Jamie I too have been critical of Benitez at times and at other times I have supported him. The same can be said for Gillette and Hicks who came here with a plan to develop a very profitable business....yes business. And that's the key word here - these guys (whether we like it or not) are hard business men and they are living in the real world, not in a world of dreams.
ReplyDeleteAs for SOS I walked alongside their last march prior to the Utd game and I think they planned it very well as they knew there would be a lot of media attention and that more fans would be 'up for it'. Unfortunately the message just won't get through to the clubs owners and could in fact (as stated by Mr Purslow) damage hopes of attracting new investment.
I would suggest that SOS put more effort into supporting the Justice campaign and become a lobbying group to negotiate on behalf of ALL supporters.
After all they aren't really bothered about much unless the owners are spending money on players. This whole SOS thing is about money...nothing else and that's why they should understand the owners current predicament.
Jamie what is your agenda? why are you so concerned with what we (Liverpool Fans) call H & G are you secretly working to foster good international relations for the UN or are you a Quisling working for G & H
ReplyDeleteGet a history lesson you need it badly
ReplyDeleteYanks as an offensive word
ReplyDeleteIm a Yankee Doddle dandy
New York Yankees
Over there (the yanks are coming) 2nd world war patriotic song
WHATS YOUR REAL AGENDA
A lambasting, I imagine that's what it felt like seeing all those papers with G&H words on them.
ReplyDeleteTalk about respect!
I wish the owners would clarify and answer questions - HONESTLY.
Was is Benitez who brought it out in public?
What if it was?
I think you'll realise the tactic was to draw them out due to all the rumours, gossip & klinnsmann type machievellian moves.
Manager wins a European Cup, get to anther finals and the owners start flirting with other managers, you couldn't make it up.
I think it was wrong of Rafa to go public, I'm presuming he was "forced" to, I'll have to see THAT press conference again to hear just how events unfolded.
So its clear they all made mistakes, the mistake G&H made was to humiliate their manager, great character reference for them.
How much are the Yanks paying you?
ReplyDeleteWe had a protest campain in Seattle when new owners from Oklahoma were allowed to move our beloved NBA team - Save Our Sonics (ironic, isn't it?). It brings out the righteous in you - and take's the F out of fun and the good times out of sport. It didn't work, they are gone. But not SOS (Save Our Sonics). They're still around and it means ZERO. Don't let it happen to you - never trade yer team for a cause because it sucks.
ReplyDeleteBut the Yank thing? I don't consider either Hick or Gillett "Yanks" but I know why SOS do. Either way, it sounds negative and is a major turn off. Good luck.
Gillett was born in Racine, Wisconson in 1938 - on <span><span>October 10</span>, 1699</span>, a fleet of eight canoes bearing a party of French explorers entered the mouth of Root River. These were the first Europeans known to visit what is now Racine County.
But Hicks was born in Texas and the state of Texas declared its secession from the United States on February 1, 1861, and joined the Confederate States of America during the American Civil War.
The term Yankee, sometimes shortened to Yank, has a few related meanings, often referring to someone either of general United States origin or more specifically, within the U.S., to people of New England origin or heritage. Its meaning has varied over time. Originally the term referred to residents of New England of colonial English descent, as used by Mark Twain in A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court (1889). As early as the 1770s the British often used the term for any American. In the 19th century Southerners used the term to refer to any Northerner who was not a recent immigrant from Europe. Thus a visitor to Richmond, Virginia, in 1818 commented, "The enterprising people are mostly strangers; Scotch, Irish, and especially New England men, or Yankees, as they are called."<sup></sup><span>[</span>1<span>]</span>
Outside the United States, Yank or Yankee is a slang term, sometimes but not always derogatory, for any U.S. citizen.
Plus sites like tia always spout anti American crap,you try and raise an abjective voice as regards to the manager and they turn on you like a pack of dogs
ReplyDeleteto right dey only want der rafa luving fools on dat sight dey say all dese anti yank stuff but anyting bout der manager an dey start on you and SOS are shit
ReplyDeleteHahha, because you 200 followers on this site have stopped Yanks Out - Deffo. Yanks out has been chanted since the article and will continue to get chanted in the future.
ReplyDeleteIt's nothing to do with ignorant idiots chanting 'Yanks Out' - It's about SOS no longer publishing flyers with 'Yanks Out' on them, and removing all traces of that from their website.
ReplyDeleteThis site forced them to do it. I highlighted their xenopobia; other fans showed their distaste, and SOS was ultimately shamed into changing their approach.