6 Sept 2009

John Terry and Steven Gerrard: England captains...and rampant Xenophobes

What do Steven Gerrard and John Terry have in common? They both play at the highest level of football; they’ve both captained the English national team; they’ve both played in a Champions league final; oh, and they’re both arguably xenophobes.

In November 2007, Steven Gerrard hit out at ‘foreigners’ in the Premiership, complaining that if a quota system is not introduced, ‘foreigners’ will ‘take over’.

'There is a concern that [English] talent will stop coming through if foreigners do take over our league. Something has got to happen otherwise there will be more and more foreigners and they will take over'.

In his interview, Gerrard also suggested that the influx of overseas players had affected the progress of the current England team:

"I think there is a risk of too many foreign players coming over which will affect our national team eventually - if it is not doing it now”.

Yesterday, John Terry jumped on the ‘let’s blame non-Brits for everything’ bandwagon with his openly xenophobic comments about diving:

"That's not the way we play, we're a very honest country and it's a very honest league we play in. If players have that [diving] in the back of their mind they shouldn't be playing football.


"Diving is something the England lads don't do. Sometimes we're too honest. The foreign mentality coming in is 'any little clip you can go tumbling over', because the speed of the game nowadays. It’s not all the foreigners, but you know who they are”.


There are so many examples of British players diving and cheating that it’s not even worth refuting Terry’s claims that diving is something ‘England lads don’t do’.

What is more disturbing to me is that Terry and Gerrard feel comfortable coming out in the press and criticising ‘foreigners’, a word which definitely has negative connotations.

Notice that Gerrard refers to 'our league' not 'the' league. And 'foreigners taking over'? Hmmm. Where have I heard that before? Ah yes – the likes of the BNP, with their campaign of intolerance deliberately couched in similarly moderate terms in an attempt appear respectable.

And before people try and twist my words, I am not suggesting that either Terry or Gerrard have any belief in BNP policies (!), as I'm sure they don't; I'm merely making the point that such organisations use similar rhetoric to get their message across.

For example, what would stop the BNP taking Terry's 'foreign mentality' comment and using it in one of their campaigns? Nothing.

I can imagine weak-minded football fans who hang on Gerrard and Terry’s every word, taking their lead and using the ‘foreigners out’ mantra as a new weapon on the terraces. Indeed, to some extent, many home-grown Liverpool fans have already adopted this dispiriting attitude, moronically campaigning for non-scousers to be banned from the Kop.

Terry is the current England captain; should someone in such a high profile position be saying such things in public? Why does he feel comfortable being openly xenophobic? Could it because many fans share his views? I think so.

Gerrard and Terry are role models for hordes of football-mad youngsters across the world; what sort of message does this kind of ill-advised criticism of ‘foreigners’ send out?

In Terry's case, it smacks of misguided solidarity and twisted national pride. In recent weeks, British players have (for the first time) come under the microscope for their cheating and diving antics. As England captain, Terry probably felt it was his place to defend English players, even if it meant blatantly ignoring the truth.

What Terry has actually done is further the ‘foreigners are the cause of all evil’ agenda. A player in his position should not be saying such things in public, and the fact that he doesn’t appreciate that is the ultimate proof of his ignorance.

Terry has proven once again that he is unfit to captain England. If he had any class, he would stand down immediately.

But that won’t happen, because as we all know, Terry has no class whatsoever.


73 comments:

  1. I believe that Gerrard's statements were not mainly because he is not xenophobic but he was just being realistic. England should preserve and nurture their own talents. Soccer originated in England and it is but right that the Premiership prioritize the locals. There are a lot of good English footballers out there but they are not given chances because you give way to foreigners.

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  2. Is there any way of getting this poisonous, malignant roach's pathetic blog off the LFC newsnow feed?

    He's just an idiot.

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  3. If a player is good enough he will eventually come through, no matter it the guy playing in his position at present is English or not.

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  4. Spot on, Jaimie. You can bet your last penny that should say the captain of Germany state such drivel in public, he will surely have been captain for the longest time, if he may be called up again at all. The only country I know where you get away with such statements is Italy, a country I personally regard as fascistic.

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  5. JT is notorious for narrow minded outbursts anyway - evidence suggests that from his remarks to ledley king samuel etoo and comments revealed in rios autobiography.

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  6. Jamie.  You are a sad little fellow.  You try to provoke and because a lot of what you write is drivel, you get what you want.  You should be ashamed of that article though - and be worried you are not sued.

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  7. Your hate of all things Gerrard is rearing it's ugly head once again. What a disgraceful article. All Gerrard was saying is that with more players coming in from abroad, it will have an effect on the amount of English players coming through and ultimately effect the national squad. Personally, I don't give a shit about England and care only about Liverpool but this argument is a sound one.

    Your constant attacks on Gerrard are pathetic. It's almost as if you hate English people... Go figure.

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  8. I think that the English players who play those foreigners at league level every week should only get better because of this as usually the foreign players are a lot more technically gifted, exactly what English internationals face when playing the likes of Croatia, Brazil and such.

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  9. Its people like you that popularlise the extremist elements in society by branding anyone with slight patriotic conservative view as xenophobic or racist. Whilst it is possible that extremist parties may attach themselves to statements like these Gerrard and Terrys comments have clearly been taken out of context.

    When Gerrard refers to it as 'our league' because it is the highest national league in England. The critisism of 'foreigners' is fair; if we want to see teams that represent the the nationality of the league and for the clubs to support local talent then there needs to be limits on the number of foreign plarers, this should apply to every major football league in Europe and South America. 

    Leave the polotics to politicians and the football to the footballers.

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  10. <span style=" color: #404040;">
    <table class="js-singleCommentBodyT" style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica; text-align: left; font-size: 8pt; color: #404040; padding: 0px; margin: 0px;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%">
    <tbody>
    <tr style="vertical-align: top;">
    <td style="padding-bottom: 8px;" colspan="2">
    <div class="js-singleCommentText" style="padding-top: 4px;">Its people like you that popularlise the extremist elements in society by branding anyone with slight patriotic conservative view as xenophobic or racist. Whilst it is possible that extremist parties may attach themselves to statements like these Gerrard and Terrys comments have clearly been taken out of context. 
     
    When Gerrard refers to it as 'our league' because it is the highest national league in England. The critisism of 'foreigners' is fair; if we want to see teams that represent the the nationality of the league and for the clubs to support local talent then there needs to be limits on the number of foreign plarers, this should apply to every major football league in Europe and South America.  
     
    Leave the politics to politicians and the football to the footballers.</div>
    </td>
    </tr>
    </tbody>
    </table>
    </span>

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  11. C'mon, Jaimie, you can do better than that. There was nothing xenophobic about what Gerrard said, it is similar to something called "protectionism". You can argue about the benefits of it, I think the influx of foreigners in the English game can only be better for the locals, so I would disagree with Gerrard for what he said. But what is wrong about an Englishman being concerned about the lack of English talent coming through? And "our league" - oh, he has the audacity to call the ENGLISH Premier League his own league... c'mon. 

    As to what Terry said, agreed, it does come across as slightly xenophobic, similar to when Shearer said about Ronaldo in the England v Portugal game "we don't do that in England". Terry just needs to look at his own teammates for direct contradiction of what he said - Gerrard, Rooney, Owen, Joe and Ashley Cole are among the best known divers in world football at this point. 

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  12. <span><span style="font-style: italic;">"Diving is something the England lads don't do. Sometimes we're too honest. The foreign mentality coming in is 'any little clip you can go tumbling over', because the speed of the game nowadays. It’s not all the foreigners, but you know who they are”.</span></span>

    Yes, we do know. I think he meant Drogba. LOL

    You are right. These statements are disgraceful and full of negative attitude considering the fact that foreign players have made PL the best league in the world, and that has also benefit english players. But I also can understand Gerrard and Terry being concerned that young english players are not coming through.

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  13. This is outrageous. By comparing their comments to those of the BNP you are effectively calling them racist, at the very least insinuating it. And what is the basis of this? A two yr old interview with Gerrard where he dares refer to them as foreigners! Since when was this an offensive term? What else should he refer to them as exactly if not foreign? It may also be pointed out that a recent investigation into the leagues of Europe show that we have the largest number of foreign players in our league, particularly when compared to Spain and Italy. Whether it is a coincidence that they are the respective European and World champions and the number of foreign players in the EPL is a hinderance to our national team is open to debate, a debate that has been going on for years and involves the FA, UEFA and all manor of journalists and pundits. Is it your assertion that everyone who dares mention this issue is therefore racist? Don't forget that even Platini has commented on this and the detrimental effect it may have on the national team and he's foreign. If you had written this in a tabloid i'd expect you'd be hearing from Gerrards lawyers.

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  14. Sued?  For what exactly - defamation?  I think not.  The 'fair comment' defence would apply here.  it could be successfully argued that both Gerrard and Terry's statements are xenophobic.

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  15. My utmost respect to Stevie G... But we have to think why is the premiership getting foreign players???? Simply because they are better than the local players available... I do not believe in the quota system because the game is not going to reach its highest potential... We'll than have to watch players that are in the team for the sake of it. If English players want to play at the top level they have to work their ass for it. There's no free lunch. If they cannot make it to the top level than they are not good at what they are doing. It's not only the players... it's also the england management to be blamed... Look at who they have had as managers before... Sven Gorran Erikkson... Mclaren... I feel even they didn't know what they were doing. But I feel they have one of the best manager in Fabio Capello although i don't really admire his style of play. But it's delivering results that's what counts... England have to learn a lessong from the likes of Russia...They don't have big names playing for big clubs except for a couple of players... But they are performing very well..... It's when management comes into play.

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  16. Constant attacks on Gerrard?  Nonsense.  I made the comparison between Terry and Gerrard because I found it interesting that two players who had captain England had made Xenophbic statements to the press.

    And it doesn't matter what Gerrard was 'trying' to say - his statement was xenophobic any way you slice it.  In fact, it was worse that Terry's in my view.

    Thes players are so ignorant it's unbelievable.  They don't even get how they might alienate their own team-mates with such comments. or perhaps, more likely, they just don' care about the consequences because they're so drunk on their status they think they can get away with saying what they want.

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  17. Bikram - seriously, you don't think this is xenophobic in the slightest?

    <span><span style="font-style: italic;">'There is a concern that [English] talent will stop coming through if foreigners do take over our league. Something has got to happen otherwise there will be more and more foreigners and they will take over'.</span></span>

    The theme here is 'foreigners taking over'; he even says it twice.

    As I said in my article, the BNP could, for example, take the following line and put it on a poster as part of their campaign:


    'Something has got to happen otherwise there will be more and more foreigners and they will take over'.

    It's hate speech - inadvertent in Gerrard's case, but he should think  more about what he says in public.

    I may be in the minority on this but I believe that the word 'foreigner' has serious negative connotations.  It can be said in a derogatory manner as I'm sure you're aware.

    I don't want to hear a Liverpool captain moaning about 'foreigners taking over'; it's distasteful,  not to mention ridiculously inaccurate.

    And I agree with you - overseas players have enhanced the premiership big time, a nd British players have improved as a result.

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  18. No - the issue should be debated, and I agree that the progression of young English players can be stunted due to the influx of overseas players.  However, there are ways and means of discussing the issue, and moaning about 'Foreigners taking over' is not one of them in my view.

    And yes, I believe the word 'Foreigner' is derogatory.  Gerrard didn't say 'Foreign players' which is slightly more acceptable, he said 'foreigners'.  Maybe it's just me who sees it as derogatory, but I've personally experienced people using it in a derogatory manner, especially yob football fans.

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  19. It appears that my reponse is no longer showing. It appeared as the first comment on page two for a few minutes and now has disappeared. Any explanation?

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  20. Same happened to me.  Freedom of speech only applies to Kanwar.

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  21. And again,  all I did was give the original quotation from the conference and a a definition of the deflamatory comment in the title and it doesn't get accepted.

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  22. If your comment is gone it means it contravened the comment policy (below).  If you have a copy of the comment, please post it and I'll have a look at it.  it could also have been quarantined by the automatic profanity filter if it contained seriously derogatory words.  I do not delete comments just because people disagree with me.  If I did that, there would be practically no comments left as 90% of people disagree withe me!

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  23. You've only made one other comment as far as I can see, and that's this one:

    http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/09/john-terry-and-steven-gerrard-england.html#jsid-1252247486-593

    I should really delete it because it's against the comment policy, but I wanted to respond to one of your points.

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  24. I know Gerrardasnails, I had a feeling that once people intelligently reponded to his drivel in this article and pointed out how offensive it is and the contradictions he makes with free speach that he wouldn't, or couldn't repond as he hasn't got a leg to stand on. He's done something i thought impossible, gone down even further in my estimation.

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  25. How do your comments get through then?  You are the one that is being derogatory.

    You have not responded to my comments

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  26. MN - this is the example of the kind of comment that will be deleted.  it adds NOTHING to the discussion.  I'm not interested in whether you think I write drivel or whatever; I'm interested in people debating the issues.

    People who don't do that and waste time slaggin me off will have their comments deleted.  if you can't handle that, don't come to this site.

    It has nothing to with me taking it personally - I couldn't care less!  This site is about intelligent debate, not sniping.

    If you want to slag me off, do so by all means in the correct thread, which is here --->

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  27. And what contradictions?  I don't have a problem with free speech' Gerrard and Terry can say what they like, but equally, I can crticise what they say if I like, i.e. free speech.

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  28. I'm a bit embarrassed that I've bitten to be honest.  I feel like I'm arguing with a 12 year old!

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  29. How are my comments derogatory?  Gerrard and Terry's statements are Xenophobic.  That's not derogatory, it's obvious.  And I responded to your comment about getting sued; click on the link above and my response is below yours.

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  30. Yes but you don't debate.  You say your piece and when anyone comes back with something you can't respond to, you don't say anything.  You've said you wanted to respond to one of my comments but you haven't. 

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  31. Absolutely not true.  I debate endlessly on this site, and glancing at any of the articles on here will confirm that.  I was bust over the weekend - I can't be online all the time.  And for the third time, I have responded to your comment, HERE--->>>

    If there was some other point your made, please repeat it here and I will respond.

    And if you keep making snide comments then I'll just ignore your comments.  Can't we just stick to the issues?

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  32. Absolutely not true.  I debate endlessly on this site, and glancing at any of the articles on here will confirm that.  I was busy over the weekend - I can't be online all the time!  And for the third time, I have responded to your comment, HERE--->>> 
     
    If there was some other point your made, please repeat it here and I will respond. 
     
    And if you keep making snide comments then I'll just ignore your comments.  Can't we just stick to the issues?

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  33. I think you need a lesson in English.  How are your comments derogatory?  Well, you are calling someone xenophobic, that's why.  And in no way do Gerrard's (not interested in Terry) comments make him sound like he is scared or dislikes foreign players (which is what xenophobia means).

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  34. Xenophpobia has a wider meaning that what you describe; it can also mean contempt for foreign people.  The point you seem to be missing is this: not only fo high profile players like Terry and Gerrard have a duty to not be xenophobic, they have to be SEEN to be not xenophobic.

    The comments they make leave them open to accusations of Xenophobia; the comments can and will be misinterpreted/twisted etc.  Whether they actually ARE privately xenophobic is almost irrelevent, though I would argue that both are in some small way.  I personally would never use the term 'foreigner' because I feel it is derogatory, as in the following cases:

    'Foreigners are taking over the country'

    'Fcuking foreigners!'

    'Foreigners go home!'

    etc.  I've heard these three phrases *many* times, and racist organisations like the BNP have use the word 'foreigner' in that kind of derogatory way.

    As such, Gerrard and Terry should not fall into the trip of using rhetoric that could be construed as Xenophobic or racist.

    It doesn't seem to be acceptable in may other places in the world, so why is it seemingly acceptable in the UK?

    This country has history of laissez faire xenophobia; the attiude that it's okay to slag off 'foreigners' as it's all just a 'bit of fun'.  You only have to look at TV shows from the 70s and 80s to see that.  Like casual racism, casual xenophobia is a major problem, and it's exacerbated by ignorant people like Gerrard and Terry.

    Hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of impressionable people will read their comments, and over time, if such comments are repeated, it will seem as if it's okay to be casually xenophobic, just like it used to be okay in this country to be casually racist.

    The general theme of 'foreigners taking over' is prevalent in society.  Foreigners allegedly taking our jobs, homes, money etc.  it's an emotive issue categorised by increasing intolerance, and people like Gerrard and Terry fans the flames with their ill-advised comments.

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  35. Why are my comments being deleted when i am not contravening any of the conditions listed below? i have not used any bad language whatsoever in any of my posts, you are simply choosing not to respond. I thought the purpose of this site was for debate?

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  36. MN - to what posts do you refer.  If any of your posts were deleted it means you probably slagged me or someone else off.  

    Even if you made valid points, your post will be deleted if you included derogatory comments about me or the site.  99% of people come on here and manage to say their piece without resort to gutter tactics.  If you can't do that, then that's your problem.

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  37. If you have some points to make, please make them and I will respond.

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  38. Kanwar is obviously very anti-English and some may say, Anti-Scouse. He should be writing for a Manc site with the amount of crap he twists when attacking our players. Are you sure you're not that Manc Scott the Red???

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  39. P.S. How often do you go the match??? I'm guessing it's not that often because that would involve getting behind the team, something you seem incapable to do.

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  40. You asked me what posts i referred to that were being deleted for no reason, i post it a third time and it again disappears. Does your site have a technical problem at the moment, or am i black listed for some bizarre reason? And don't say its because i'm being rude be i am certainly not, its easy to say that in your post without listing mine.

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  41. I'm not aware of any technical problems but it's always a possibility.  Please email the comment that allegedly keeps being deleted to editor@liverpool-kop.com and I'll check it out.

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  42. JD - I deleted your two previous comments because they have nothing to do with this thread. If you have something to add to the debate, please go ahead; if all you want to do is accuse me of being a Manc in disguise, then such comments will be deleted.

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  43. Jaimie,

    It has disappeared again, within 30 secs of posting. Thanks,

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  44. <span style="">I've posted your comment belowAny word can be used in a derogatory manner if used in the correct context. Gerrards reference to foreigners in this case is simply referring to foreign players, it is not a dirty word. When the yobs you refer to use the word foreigner, it is not the word that is offensive it is the manner in which it is said. 
    You state that the issue surrounding the number of foreign players in the league should be debated, but when these players make comments regarding this issue, which is their opinion and they are entitled to it as much as you or anyone else, you do not argue your case but simply resort to labelling them 'shameless xenophobes'. How is this debating? What annoys me is that the insinuation is that any one else who agrees with this is also labelled the same, affectively racist. Like all uneducated footballers Gerrard is an inarticulate man and would never have dreamt that his comments would be misinterpreted in this manner and it is interesting that i've never heard another journalist or pundit accusing these comments as being xenophobic. Indeed this issue is more often than not brought up by the papers and media, usually as an excuse for the England team under performing.</span>

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  45. Weird.  I'm sorry that keeps happening.  I've posted your comment below:


    MN's comment

    <span style="">Any word can be used in a derogatory manner if used in the correct context. Gerrards reference to foreigners in this case is simply referring to foreign players, it is not a dirty word. When the yobs you refer to use the word foreigner, it is not the word that is offensive it is the manner in which it is said. 
    </span>
    <span style="">
    You state that the issue surrounding the number of foreign players in the league should be debated, but when these players make comments regarding this issue, which is their opinion and they are entitled to it as much as you or anyone else, you do not argue your case but simply resort to labelling them 'shameless xenophobes'.

    How is this debating? What annoys me is that the insinuation is that any one else who agrees with this is also labelled the same, affectively racist. Like all uneducated footballers Gerrard is an inarticulate man and would never have dreamt that his comments would be misinterpreted in this manner and it is interesting that i've never heard another journalist or pundit accusing these comments as being xenophobic. Indeed this issue is more often than not brought up by the papers and media, usually as an excuse for the England team under performing.</span>

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  46. MN - I agree that Gerrard is referring to overseason players, however, the way he used the word (i.e. suggesting that Foreigners would take over) was rather distasteful in my view. As I said in an earlier post, with players in the public eye all the time, they have a duty to consider the ramifications of what they're saying. 

    Let me ask you this: is there anything *positive* about Gerrard and Terry's comments>  Does anything at all in what they said have positive connotations? I would argue no.  So what was the point.

    And I disagree that Gerrard is an 'inarticulate man'; labelling him as that just absolves him of responsibility for his actions.  He is not stupid, and is fully aware of what he's saying.

    And I did not jus call them 'shamless xenophobes' and that was it.  I explained WHY I believed this to be the case in my article, or did you just read the opening paragraph?

    And yes, I presonally  believe that the word 'Foreigner' should be outlawed.  It hardly ever has positive connotations and is only really ever used in a dismissive, negative context. 

    When referring to 'foreign' players, a more suitable phrase would be 'overseas players'.  It is more accurate too, as most so-called 'foreign' players are from overseason, are they not?

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  47. My last, quite long comment, has been deleted.  I had written a lot of similar stuff to what MN wrote.  I didn't swear or use abusive language.

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  48. I posted a very similar comment to yours MN - but mine was not deemed worthy of not getting deleted.

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  49. Sorry Gerrardasnails - I just don't believe you.  You're just sh1t-stirring. I haven't deleted any of your posts in this thread.

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  50. You haven't posted anything in the last hour - I can check this via your IP address.  You're just trying to make out I delete valid comments, which is nonsense.

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  51. I didn't say I sent it in the last hour.  I am not lying.

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  52. I did read your whole article Jaimie, you explain that you think its xenophobic based on the use of the word 'foreigner' and his reference to 'our ' league, both of which I, and i should think the majority of people, find completely acceptable, 'foreigner' meaning players from beyond these shores and 'our' league meaning the English premier league. Do you not think that the Spanish would have referred to Michael Owen as foreign when he played for Madrid? Of course because he's not Spanish.
    On Gerrards point you could argue its positive if you agree that highlighting the influx of foreign players in the prem is detrimental to our national teams chances and the development of young english players. Even Platini has mentioned this and he can't stand us. On numerous occasions Arsenal have fielded a team without any homgrown players, we nearly have and this cannot be right. Its too easy to say that good enough players will make it through, not if they have an international or experienced foreign player, maybe two or three, in their position. Look at Geln johnson having to leave Chelsea for Portsmouth for example. I have also read threads on here that are critical of Rafa for bringing in poor quality foreigners to the detriment of our young players like Kelly and Spearing etc. Its obviously a tough situation because on the flip side we want success as a club with the best possible players. Finally I should also imagine that Gerrard was asked for his opinion on this matter when he made the comments as opposed to coming out the changing rooms one day and randomely blurting it out because he's a xenophobe.

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  53. Well, just because the BNP uses snippets of what you are saying does not make you a right wing racist. The Nazis took loads of stuff from Nietzsche - they literally took away paragraphs, not even individual lines here and there - but no one regards the latter as antisemitic. 

    One very important difference that you're forgetting is that while the BNP will be talking about jobs etc., Gerrard is talking about football, and it is important from his perspective that English talent is pushed through in what is the national sport. He is not stereotyping foreigners, he just feels that there isn't enough of English talent coming through, and that is hindered by foreigners. If you think his choice of the word "foreigner" is negative, well, that's a different thing, but that doesn't mean he's xenophobic, just not that careful in his language. 

    You still can't say he's a RAMPANT xenophobe, though, especially since he plays on a team of foreigners. 

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  54. I agree with you MN. And Jamie, you are attacking Gerrard just because he used the word foreigners? That's just going too far with trying to be politically correct. Besides, can you name a foreign player that was offended by that? If even foreign players don't mind, what right do you have to label it as an offending statement.

    Now you are probably going to talk about how he is a public figure and he has responsibilities. You seem to do that alot. While I agree that a public figure does have to be careful about certain things, picking on one word from him just doesn't make sense.

    And the our league thing? It IS their league (English players' league). It's the football league in England. How is THAT offensive??? Should we be offended if you said this is your website?

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  55. Although, I do agree with how ridiculous Terry's comment on English players diving is. They're no better than "foreigners'. Damn, I used the word, please don't delete me. LOL

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  56. It's not just the word 'foreigner'; it's the context in which it was used.  Scaremongering rhetoric like ' Foreigners are taking over' was how Gerrard phrased it.  As an example, a major proponent of this kind of sly tactic is The Daily Mail, which is is well known for it's xeniphobic slant; wherever possible, it prints stories about how 'foreigners' are taking over/causing problems/stealing our jobs.benefits/school places/how immigration is out of control and damaging the country. The DM does it in a very sly way so it doesn't appear to be Xeniphobic, but reading between the lines, their editorial stance clearly is xenophobic.

    The idea that 'Foreigners' are invaders and unwanted is something that the media generally force-feeds the public every day, but many people are not really aware of it because alot of it is subliminal (advertising, film/tv stereotypes etc).

    Gerrard and Terry feed into this 'us' and 'them' agenda by legitimising casual Xenophobia with their seemingly innocent, well intentioned statements.

    If such high-profile people can just casually say things like 'Foreigners are taking over' 'and 'foreign mentality' mentality is to blame for cheating, then it just makes such statements appears to be acceptable.

    Terry and Gerrard may only be talking about football, but in the grand scheme of things, it all feeds into the same thing: general xenophobia.

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  57. My post has vanished again. It's getting tiresome writing these responses only for them to disappear withing 30 seconds of posting them.

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  58. Why is it some of your posts appear then other disappear?  There doesn't seem to be a glitch with the comment system.  Perhaps try posting without adding a URL.  You're is http://MN, which is not a proper web address, so mayb that could be causing a conflict. Worth a try...

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  59. This is the weirdest thing. Just gone again. i tried withiout the URL and it's still gone. Why some get through you tell me, i'm doing the same each time. Do you have a record of it Jaimie?

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  60. Whenever new comments are posted, they appear in the master list (in the admin section) and I also get email notifications.  Your comments haven't appeared and I haven't received any notifications for the missing comments.  Yet your other comments come through fine.  What browser are you using? Try posting under a different name - it's possible that if you've posted as a guest before (and I banned you for slagging me off ;-) then changed to 'MN' that this could be causing a conflict...

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  61. I'll try this test and immediately follow with my original post that i have copied in my outlook drafts, see if either work.

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  62. I followed the above with my original post and as soon as i refreshed the page it went but the above stayed. Can't explain it

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  63. You are replying commenting directly in the comment box, right - not replying via email?

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  64. Yeah i reply in the comment box, maybe the message is too long. Is there a minimum number of characters? If so i'll have to split it though it is no longer than others posted here, including your own.

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  65. Just tried splitting it and the first part has immediately vanished when refreshed.

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  66. I'm sorry about this Matt - it's possible there's a glitch on the comment system, but there is also the possibility that there's something on your compute causing a conflict.  This problem has never occurred before.  Are you using firefox or IE?  I recommend Firefox.  Also, try splitting your comment into paragraphs - perhaps a huge chunk of text is causing a problem...?

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  67. Jaimie, I've tried splitting it both on IE and Fierfox and neither work. On Firefox a message comes up with 'must not exceed 5000 characters'. its no where near that to be honest, this the came up on just one sentence. If I email you as before can you then post it as you did yesterday? Thanks

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  68. 5000 characters is the limit.  It definitely sounds like a glitch your end I'm afraid.  Email me the comment and I'll post it, no problem.  Tell me which comment it is in reply to also, so I can add it to the right one. (click MORE on the comment for the individual URL. 
     
    If it;s okay with you, I'll delete all these messages about the problem as they're clogging up the discussion a bit...?  Cheers.

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  69. 500 characters is the limit.  It definitely sounds like a glitch your end I'm afraid.  Email me the comment and I'll post it, no problem.  Tell me which comment it is in reply to also, so I can add it to the right one. (click MORE on the comment for the individual URL.

    If it;s okay with you, I'll delete all these messages about the problem as they're clogging up the discussion a bit...?  Cheers.

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  70. Ive just emailed you with the post, thanks for your help. I still don't understand why there is a problem when all the above come through fine. Please feel free to delete these posts. Thanks,

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  71. <span style="">When Gerrard says that foreigners are 'taking over' he is simply referring to a situation whereby the number of foreign players will outnumber the English in our own league.

    And its not far off so is a completely legitimate point. It's not only the first team players that are coming in (though even then a recent report says we have the largest percentage of foreign players in Europe) but youth players as well. </span>
     
    <span style="">Look at our setup, the majority of our best young players are foreign. As is the case with MU with Rafael, his brother and Macheda. Then Chelsea get a transfer ban for poaching young players from abroad. Not to mention  Arsenal. This cannot be right when young foreign players are receiving the benefits, money, time, expertise from a coaches instead of local talent.

    Plus its a disgrace to the foreign clubs who lose young players to our clubs and have then wasted all there time and money on their development for nothing. This massive influx of foreign players can only have a detrimental affect in the long run. Gerrard was simply highlighting this issue legitimately however poorly he expressed it and wishing to preserve the english league for english players cannot be labelled xenophobic surely.

    Do you not think that the Spanish and Italians look after their interests? Its PC gone too far when these issues cannot be raised, both in football and the wider society, for fear of being labelled a racist. Finally i think your reference to the 'subliminal messages' from the media that we are 'forced fed' is highly patronising. We are all aware of the issues and can make our own decisions on them.</span>

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  72. I agree MN. Also, I wasn't arguing that much about what he said THIS time (although I still don't think they were being xenophobes). If you are calling Gerrard and Terry xenophobes, then you have to give examples of multiple legitimate examples of them attacking foreigners. You said the Daily Mail does it all the time, which is what the point is. Unless you can give examples of multiple times of it, then there's no reason to believe that they are xenophobes. Also, Gerrard is in love with Torres. Everyone knows that.

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  73. <h1><span><span>A very good article Jaimie. And this is coming from an Arsenal fan. After seeing the world go mad over the Eduardo's dive, which was a dive, no doubt, I was expecting more reaction from the same world filled with righteous men, but I'm yet to hear a thing about the dives that followed !
    </span></span></h1>

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