In May, Bayer Leverkusen Sporting Director Rudi Voller confirmed that Liverpool are interested in signing versatile midfielder Emre Can, and it seems like the German star is on the verge of becoming Brendan Rodgers' second signing of the summer.
When specifically asked today Liverpool's interest in Can, Voller told Bild:
"We know that they [LFC] are interested, but there's nothing official yet. Emre has a [buy-back] clause in the contract, and a decision is still pending"
Well, according to the Daily Mail today:
"Liverpool are set to sign Emre Can after activating a £9.75m release clause. The club hope to have a deal concluded within the week"
Additionally, an hour ago, Leverkusen CEO Michael Schade confirmed LFC's offer. He told German newspaper Bild:
"Until Tuesday, it was a rumor. Now I can confirm that an official offer from Liverpool is received by mail"
Bild also claims that Liverpool will announce the deal at some point tomorrow (Thursday).
Can - described by his former boss, Sami Hyypia as 'incredible on the ball' - is comfortable playing as a midfielder, a centre-back, or a left-back, and given Rodgers' love of flexible players, it's no surprise he's on the radar. When asked about his preferred position in a recent interview, Can told reporters:
"I see myself as a central midfielder, but I do not care. I play wherever coach and team need me".
Can's stats for last season:
* Played: 36
* Goals: 3
* Assists: 3
* Yellow Cards: 13
* Red Cards: 1
* Passing accuracy: 78%
* Aerial duels won: 59%
* Tackles: 2.58 per game
* Interceptions: 1.4 per game
* Clearances: 1.5 per game
* Key passes: 0.6 per game
* Dispossessed: 47 times in 36 games
Stats: OPTA
Former Bayern boss Jupp Heynckes believes that Can has the potential to be a future star, but only if he applies himself. He recently told reporters:
"He [Can] is very talented, but he still has much to learn. Between what he is accustomed to and what we do here, they are different worlds. [Can has] great potential. If he is willing to learn, then he can make his way."
I hate to be a Cassandra here, but I have to tell it like I see it: I get a Nuri Sahin vibe about this transfer. Can sees himself as a central midfielder, but he isn't going to oust Steven Gerrard from his role, and if LFC sign Lallana (or a similar player) he'll have Hendo, Allen, Lucas, Gerrard, and Lallana to compete with.
As such, like Sahin, Can will probably be played out of position, and may be cursed by his versatility. I also get the feeling Rodgers (privately) sees Can as a squad player. The price tag seems to suggest this, and if Can doesn't make an immediate impact, he could go the same way as Alberto and Aspas, i.e. rarely used, and wasting away on the bench.
Last summer, I doubt anyone expected Alberto and Aspas to get practically zero pitch during the season, but it happened, and I get a similar feeling with this deal.
Of course, I hope I'm wrong.
*UPDATE: Thursday 5 June*
It seems Bild got it right. LFC have announced the signing of Can.
Author: Jaimie K
When specifically asked today Liverpool's interest in Can, Voller told Bild:
"We know that they [LFC] are interested, but there's nothing official yet. Emre has a [buy-back] clause in the contract, and a decision is still pending"
Well, according to the Daily Mail today:
"Liverpool are set to sign Emre Can after activating a £9.75m release clause. The club hope to have a deal concluded within the week"
Additionally, an hour ago, Leverkusen CEO Michael Schade confirmed LFC's offer. He told German newspaper Bild:
"Until Tuesday, it was a rumor. Now I can confirm that an official offer from Liverpool is received by mail"
Bild also claims that Liverpool will announce the deal at some point tomorrow (Thursday).
Can - described by his former boss, Sami Hyypia as 'incredible on the ball' - is comfortable playing as a midfielder, a centre-back, or a left-back, and given Rodgers' love of flexible players, it's no surprise he's on the radar. When asked about his preferred position in a recent interview, Can told reporters:
"I see myself as a central midfielder, but I do not care. I play wherever coach and team need me".
Can's stats for last season:
* Played: 36
* Goals: 3
* Assists: 3
* Yellow Cards: 13
* Red Cards: 1
* Passing accuracy: 78%
* Aerial duels won: 59%
* Tackles: 2.58 per game
* Interceptions: 1.4 per game
* Clearances: 1.5 per game
* Key passes: 0.6 per game
* Dispossessed: 47 times in 36 games
Stats: OPTA
Former Bayern boss Jupp Heynckes believes that Can has the potential to be a future star, but only if he applies himself. He recently told reporters:
"He [Can] is very talented, but he still has much to learn. Between what he is accustomed to and what we do here, they are different worlds. [Can has] great potential. If he is willing to learn, then he can make his way."
I hate to be a Cassandra here, but I have to tell it like I see it: I get a Nuri Sahin vibe about this transfer. Can sees himself as a central midfielder, but he isn't going to oust Steven Gerrard from his role, and if LFC sign Lallana (or a similar player) he'll have Hendo, Allen, Lucas, Gerrard, and Lallana to compete with.
As such, like Sahin, Can will probably be played out of position, and may be cursed by his versatility. I also get the feeling Rodgers (privately) sees Can as a squad player. The price tag seems to suggest this, and if Can doesn't make an immediate impact, he could go the same way as Alberto and Aspas, i.e. rarely used, and wasting away on the bench.
Last summer, I doubt anyone expected Alberto and Aspas to get practically zero pitch during the season, but it happened, and I get a similar feeling with this deal.
Of course, I hope I'm wrong.
*UPDATE: Thursday 5 June*
It seems Bild got it right. LFC have announced the signing of Can.
Author: Jaimie K
Very pleased with this deal, technically very good with pace to burn in midfield!!!............... :-)
ReplyDeleteThis deal makes sense, as I think he offers more than Lucas and Allen as cover for all 3 mid positions, possibly playing alongside hendo and in front of Stevie when we need more def stability, Gerrard lying deep with 2 genuine tireless box to box mids either side of him makes for a tasty team!
ReplyDeleteA very talented player who is still yet to come into his peak. Can and Sahin are different players - Can is a presence and physically stronger and has potential skill that can make him a brilliant player.
ReplyDeleteObviously no guarantees that he will be a good signing like any player the club goes in for but one has to assume that a current midfield player would be sold to accommodate
I think our priority should be defensive midfielders and our backline so i like this transfer.. dont think he will start though .. love to see players you know we are signing to start
ReplyDeleteI guess this means that lucas is inching closer to an exit..
ReplyDeleteFor once I agree with Jamie, this is Sahin, Alberto, Aspas kind of signing. If cuadrado or Konoplyanka come for 15-20 mil why would you not spend money wisely on them instead of this?
ReplyDeleteHe looks a decent player from what I've seen in videos. Good technically and quick. It's going to be interesting to see how hes used. I think it spells a difficult scenario for the likes of Lucas and Allen, but I welcome this.
ReplyDeleteI see the comparison you're making with Sahin re: competition and position, but I feel comparing Can to another Turkish/German might muddy the waters for some.
ReplyDeleteFor this reason, in direct comparison with Sahin, I feel it is worth noting Can's physical prowess. I think the biggest issue with Sahin was how games seemed to pass him by. There was of course the issue of uncertainty over his role in the team, but he also seemed unable to physically assert his dominance over opponents and impose himself.
Can is built for the Prem in a way Sahin (or certainly the particular post-knee surgery Sahin we had) wasn't. I think whilst I understand your concern JK over his role in the team, I think now we are in Europe, it is a move that makes sense. His physicality and comfort on the ball means he can act as a shield in front of defence and the first stage of launching our attacks. He can stand in for Gerrard. The same attributes mean he is even more suited for covering for Henderson. It seems unlikely Enrique will be fit for the start of next season, so he can fill in at left-back too. He could also be a ball-playing centre-half.
Above all else, he is versatile and technically sound, which makes him the perfect Rodgers player. In many ways, having such a tactically adept manager means that instead of having a number of specialists on the field, you have one on the sidelines who can mould the game. It certainly worked well for us last season and this style (I think) offers a slight inoculation to the effects of injuries in your team. Unless you have two specialists in every position, a single injury can have an enormous effect on your side. If you have a number of versatile players and an equally versatile manager, it is easier to adapt.
Side-note: I think Can will be a bit of a disappointing signing. I can't really construct too strong an argument for that but I thought it worth mentioning.
ReplyDeleteTheres something about this signing, i don't know what, but I feel that he will just become an absolute top class star as the season progresses, fingers crossed!!!
ReplyDeletedont know much about this guy.... is gunna be a squad type player? or potentially looking at a starting role?
ReplyDeleteanother alberto,
ReplyDeleteLiverpool will struggle for top 4 next season
ReplyDeletei am a liverpool fan as well but i am realistic
suarez is joining rela Madrid the marca have said so , remember real always get who they want unless barca nick it
and ricky lambert is probably his replacement
liverpool need a new manager i want rafa benitez back liverpool were a much more happier team with him
What are you smoking over there Sharath, ???
ReplyDeleteBlah blah blah.
ReplyDeleteYou want Rafa Benitez back? Luke, I am your father!
ReplyDeleteWatch how quick and strong he is, box to box like Gerrard was, good passer and really gets stuck in................ £10m..............happy days!!!
ReplyDeleteso what you are saying is that liverpool will keep suarze and will finish in top 4 again
ReplyDeleteface it rodgesr success is mainly built on suarez and hendderson , without suarez we will see the manager who has never won a trophy in his life
Was not Sharath though. Disqus normally does that.
ReplyDeleteWhat did Rafa win in his early years as a manager?
ReplyDeleteWrong again, BR has just been named Manager of the year, I seen him collect his trophy on TV.
ReplyDeleteWho is 'we'?????
ReplyDeleteyes i want the manager that has actually won trophies in his life , 4th club in a row rafa has won ta trophy at
ReplyDeletei want to win cls again i want to see good CONTROLLED football , i want a manager who is a winner
disgraceful how rodgers was given the job in the first place,
Wind up merchant, dont indulge him.
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
ReplyDeletepoint is when we hired him he was a winner
ReplyDeletehe won la liga against rela madrid and barca with valencia
that is a major feat , and lfc should have appointed a manager that has won trophies in his life especially leagues
wy did we not get van gaal?
If you want a quick success pls support Money Teams like Man City or Chelsea
ReplyDeleteso just because i have a point you do not agree with i am a wind up merchant ?
ReplyDeletei am concerned liverpool have not won a trophy for 2 years in rodgers reign
suarez is leaving teh marca said so
lallana and moreno deals being hijacked by spuds
out of 5. 3 would b good
ReplyDeleteBut Rafa won NOTHING in his first 8 years as a manager. What was that about Rodgers?
ReplyDeleteUnderstudy to Gerrard I guess ...
ReplyDeleteStevie won't be able to play all the games next season nor should he anyaway. Another thing to consider, is that Gerrard won't be much longer around than a few years yet, so we badly need somebody to take over from him when the time has come.
Can could play the cup games and come from the bench to replace Gerrard in the league games to give our captain much needed rest.
All in all, I think he will play plenty of games, even though most of them will most likely be sub appearances.
but liverpol is not the club you learn your trade at
ReplyDeleteno other institution in the world would get an inexperienced loser to run them
You must be joking ...
ReplyDeleteMoyes at your lot???
ReplyDeleteMuch better than Lucas.
ReplyDeletesee you are not seeing the facts and rodgers has cast a spell upon you
ReplyDeletesee that is the whole problem fans like you expect everyone to be followers just always see the positive , if tehre are afns who actually voice their concern they are man u fans
ReplyDeletebet you were a hodgson supporter
his fifa stats show he does not have good pace and is only rated 72
ReplyDeleteIs he smart...with good vision? Does he speak enough English to communicate? Don't get me wrong, I like this signing. He's young, big, strong, apparently fast and has good feet. He fits the BR mold and is in a position we definitely need to shore up. If Hyypia likes him, that has to be worth something.
ReplyDeleteRun along it's bath time.
ReplyDeleteStick to FIFA son!!!
ReplyDeletelook i know you you are the largest optimist in football
ReplyDeleteno need to insult others
You obviously have never been insulted before!!!
ReplyDeletei want manger that is honest if he is not a winner
ReplyDeleterodgesr said we will compete for the league that is a complete lie and will give people like gano false optimist ,
he should at least be truth ful
Mate just ignore. Like Johnny said, wind up merchant...
ReplyDeleteI mean seriously, who would want Rafa back now?
a lot of lfc fans still love rafa
ReplyDeleteMon dieu...
ReplyDeleteNice haircut too. We needed one after signing Lambert.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid I don't know what you're trying to tell me here, chief.
ReplyDeleteOut of 5 how good he would be, is that what you are asking?
ReplyDeleteI don't think he will be an abject failure, nor a tremendous success.
3 out of 5?
13 yellows and a red (2nd yellow) is not too out of the ordinary for a good DM either. We don't want teams thinking they can him around. Gerrard had his share this year...so did Lucas. Allen...not so much.
ReplyDeleteBayern do have the buy back clause so that immediately tells you that there is something about Can and you can be rest assured that our scouts would have been in Germany many times to watch him last season.
ReplyDeletei though sahin was a good player he was fantastic vs west brom in carling cup
ReplyDeleteand like cissoko rodgers completely misused him
It's really funny jaimie... Either a player is absolutely overpriced or he is seen as a squad player because of his price .. + I doubt can will be played as a offensive midfielder ... When sahin was at our club we had no single offensive midfielder, and rodgers decided to play sahin(and shelvey, who's also a CM) in that role ... Now we have coutinho, suso and sterling who can play that role, +probably another player (shaqiri or lallana) ...
ReplyDeleteBuy-out clauses happen all the time. Not too much of an indicator. Arsenal had one on David Bentley. Barca on Bojan. These bigger teams do it all the time.
ReplyDeleteBuy back, not buy out. If Barca had a buy back clause on Bojan then there was a reason for it.
ReplyDeletelook people start seeing the reality:
ReplyDelete1) our best player is leaving and we are signing ricky lamberts
2) all the decent palyers we target get hijacked by spuds or chelsea , spuds want moreno and lallana so we like moses will end p with rejects such as shaqiri
3) we have not won a trophy for a whole two seasons even david moyes won more in his 6 months
4) agger our best defender is being forced out like reina was because mr rodgers does not like him and will continue to replace our best players like sakho or mignolet
Yeah, I meant buy back, sorry.
ReplyDeleteBarca had one on Bojan because they recognised his potential. He didn't fulfill it. Potential is all well and good but players with potential are a dime a dozen.
I'm not disappointed with this deal, nor do I think it will be a total bust, I just have reservations about the player.
I'm very concerned this guy will be yet another LEMON ...
ReplyDeleteDon't be so bitter.
ReplyDeleteIf you feel this way go support another team til we are successful again... by your reckoning it will be a long time.. I personally think we aren't to far away, even with a young manager still learn after every game.
ReplyDeleteFunny thing is, that this is not even true, I mean you should never stick to fifa but he has 73 over all and his pace is rated at 81 which is really good for a CM-CDM ...
ReplyDeletewe should appoint the juve manager
ReplyDeleteYou need to give yourself a good talking to
ReplyDeleteYeah we should get messi and Cristiano
ReplyDeleteI agree with @henderson 1 4 capatain:disqus.
ReplyDeleteFuck that other guy @@henderson 1 4 capatain:disqus.
Having a buy back clause is literally like loaning a player out. If the player impresses then the club who sold that player have first option to take that player back. Obviously the player has ways to get out of the buy back clause but I cannot imagine that it would be easy to get a deal like this completed so if we have signed him then hats off and who knows, this could end up being a really good signing.
ReplyDeleteYou've replied to the wrong chap, I'm afraid.
ReplyDeleteCouldnt agree more
ReplyDeleteI understand what a buy back clause is and how it works. I just don't think it means a great deal other than the player has potential.
ReplyDeleteDid you even try!?
ReplyDeleteFor £10m the reported fee which quite honestly is nothing in the transfer fees of today, what do we have to lose?
ReplyDeletetouche ..
ReplyDeleteSo we get rid of a up and coming manager after scoring more league goal than some inbreds can count? I think BR isn't too far away from begin a success... Agger I like but he gets bullied too often ( Sakho need a little work but has never been bullied by any CF. Pepe is a better keeper but if he's flaunting his goods like a Kardishian to Barca, don't know if we should show him the loyality than we haven't received.
ReplyDeleteWe could lost £10m. The cost of an Eriksen, pretty much.
ReplyDeleteAs I say, I don't think it is a terrible deal and I think he could be very good, but I have a suspicion it wont pan it. He certainly appears to have the raw ingredients to succeed.
£10m in and of itself isn't a huge amount (in football terms, where everything is mental) but these deals pile up. Look at last season: Borini, who was out on loan, Aspas and Alberto contributed next to nothing and cost a combined total of about £25m.
Good Lord. Someone restrain him!
ReplyDeleteBit those deals are better than Aquilani, Joe Cole and Javanovic?
ReplyDeleteWhat point are you trying to make?
ReplyDeleteSigning Can is not that big of a risk. What risk does Borini pose in loses and even Aspas or Alberto compared to the that Aquilani, Javanovic and Joe Cole?
ReplyDeletemiss used Cissokho? Cissokho is a 4-4-2 full back not a flying full back our system requires? BR is not going to change his whole playing style cause Cissokho isn't comfortable playing a wingback. Seriously are you drinking right now?
ReplyDeleteand if not why not?
ReplyDeleteAs I've said though, if you view £10m as low risk, you have only to get 2 low risk transfers wrong and it can cost you a major transfer. Aspas, Alberto and Borini individually aren't especially costly deals, but if you get them wrong (and though I like Borini, you can't argue he is a good singing as of now) they have a cumulative negative effect and before you know it, you're £20+m down with now benefit to the team.
ReplyDeleteI still don't really understand bringing up Aqua, Jovanovic and Cole. Are you trying to defend Rodgers by pointing out previous missteps? If so, I'm not making an attempt to criticise Rodgers- this is the first time I've mentioned his name.
Joe Cole and Jovanovic were free transfers, Even if you take into account their inflated wages, it is not a good argument that they are riskier deals than bringing someone in for £10m.
What do you mean 'what do we have to lose?' Instead of constantly trying to justify Rodgers' signings on the sly, why don't you acknowledge the glaring obvious?
ReplyDelete£10m may (comparatively) not be a large amount, but any fair-minded person (unencumbered by rampant bias) can see that caution is warranted in the wake of BR's £36m waste on a series of non-beneficial deals.
The likes of Aspas, Alberto, Ilori, Assaidi etc were only small fees, but combined, it's a big chunk of change. All that money is wasted because LFC didn't get any benefit out of that outlay.
Add Can onto that, and the amount is now £46m, and if he failed, that is a massive amount of money to waste on players who contribute nothing.
You undermine your own points by being so blatantly insincere. Last summer, you said the same about Alberto, Aspas et al, and what did they do for LFC? Zilch.
Many a true word.....
ReplyDeleteThis is similar to some of the stuff in my posts JK.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to have to report you to the owner/operator of this site for plagiarism.
So seems like we have secured our second signing for the new season. Welcome Emre Can! Now to complete the deal for Moreno!
ReplyDeletein all honesty, Can is young, versatile and maybe will fill a similar role to lucas later on, just with more versatility and maybe a bit more attacking flair. decent stats for a young lad. I think he will be used as rotation etc.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what @henderson 1 4 capatain:disqus will think of this post.
ReplyDeleteIs it in the can then? (I know, I know I'll get my coat)
ReplyDeleteDoes not mean we are going to lose mega bucks if we did sell both Aspas and Alberto compared to the money we lost on Aquilani, Cole and Javanovic.
ReplyDeleteSo who will you purchase instead of Can??
ReplyDeleteHave to be honest and say I haven't seen enough of this guy to make an informed decision but I hear he's very highly rated and he's made an impact in the first team of a champions league team playing in a very competitive league. Sounds like a decent signing for the money
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying LFC shouldn't sign him; I hope he's a great signing, but like Vermhat above, I have some doubts.
ReplyDeleteWe still had to pay signing on fees for Cole and Javanovic plus the were hemorrhaging the wage bill. Spot the difference?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you keep bringing up those three?! They have absolutely nothing to do with Rodgers, or the club's current transfer business. Bringing up pointless things yet again to divert attention away from the issue.
ReplyDeleteYou also ignore the loss of utility suffered by the club. £36m spent and LFC got nothing over the last 18 months for it. If that money had been spent better, the Prem trophy might be sitting in the trophy cabinet right now.
£36m spent correctly could definitely be worth an extra 5 points in one season.
Oh sorry, I didn't understand. I suppose you must know we wont be paying Can a wage or a signing on fee then, right?
ReplyDeleteI think the difference between him and Sahin is Can needs to be molded and yes he has to apply himself. BR can teach this kid something. Sahin had a superstar complex meaning he taught coming from Madrid he did not have to try hard.
ReplyDeleteMy point is Cole and Javanovic were not for free.
ReplyDeleteIt has to do with Liverpool.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprise it's take you this long to rumble me. I've been nicking your stuff for over a year ;-)
ReplyDeleteSent from Samsung Mobile
I know they weren't free but, to use your words, "the risk they pose in losses" is less than Can, since he comes with £10m up front AND a signing on fee and wages.
ReplyDeleteExample:
Cole was on £90k a week. We had him for one year. £90k x 52 (for the sake of this calculation) is £4.7m (rounded) per year. We had him for one full season. Then we loaned him out to Lille and they paid about 1/3 of his wages. So then he cost us £3.1m for that year. Then he only played for us for 6 months in his final year, but I'll be generous and do 1 more full year. So £4.7m + £4,7m + £3.1m = £12.5m. Again, I'll be generous and say he got a massive £4m signing on fee. TOTAL = £16.5m
Can costs £10m up front. He'll be on, at least, £40k p/w. £2.1m a year. He'll sign for at least 4 years, so that is £8.4m. To make it a fairer comparison, let's suppose he stays only for as long as Cole- 3 years. That is £6.3m. Can's price is up to £16.3m. If Can's signing on fee is anything more than £200k, which is surely will be, he'll be more costly than Cole over the same time period.
We'll make a Scouser of you yet JK!
ReplyDeleteyes diego simeone is a great option
ReplyDeleteTin.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately it is pronounced Jan (or with a J anyhoo).
ReplyDeleteAlready he is wrecking puns for everyone, who does he think he is!?
answer this?
ReplyDeletewhy has rodgers yet to win a trophy at lfc?
daglsiha and rafa won a trophy albeit daglsih did not win a proper one
still better then nothing ,heck even david moyes has won more trophies then rodgers this year
When I made this post, it was under the henderson name. I'm not mental.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure this is the way things work.
ReplyDeleteNo, it isn't an exact break down of the contracts and fees, because I'm not privy to them, but it gives a general picture.
ReplyDeleteDo you see how the risk of signing Can is (at best) comparable to the risk of signing Joe Cole?
lol utds defence next season jones samlling shaw
ReplyDeletethey are all so bad even valencia looks like messi
I cannot see it when what you have explained is not how it works.
ReplyDeleteHow does it work then? If you have greater insight, then present it.
ReplyDeleteI am not going to get into it but i can assure you that Aquilani cost us more in the time he was at the club than what we sold him for.
ReplyDeleteFor that reason Can is not as big as a risk than what Cole, Aquilani and Javanovic were.
That is where i leave it.
I haven't mentioned Aquilani though. You have.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't make any sense to bring up Aquilani, who I haven't mentioned in any of my posts to dispute my point.
ReplyDeleteThe argument you just made is this:
Aquilani is a bigger risk than Can, therefore Can is less risky than Can, Cole and Jovanovic.
I've never disputed that Aquilani was a risky/unsuccessful transfer. I argued that risk of signing Can is not less than the risk of signing Jovanovic or Cole.
"Do you see how the risk of signing Can is (at best) comparable to the risk of signing Joe Cole?"
ReplyDeleteWhen it is not.
You've made literally no argument to dispute that though.
ReplyDeleteYou've just said it is less risky. What are you basing that on?
I've provided figures. They are speculative but I've created a scenario based on the facts that are readily available that shows the logical mechanics that underpin my opinion.
You're argument thus far is comprised of two points: 1) Signing Can is not much of a risk because £10m isn't a lot of money.
2) Signing Can is less of a risk than signing Aquilani, Cole and Jovanovic.
The second point isn't even particularly relevant. Deals from 4-5 years ago don't really effect how good a deal is in the present. By that logic, you could argue that Jovanovic was a good deal because it was less risky than the £35m spent on Carroll. They were both bad deals. Just because Jovanovic and Cole were bad or risky transfers doesn't mean that Can isn't.
I never said that Can was not a risk.
ReplyDeleteI've never said you said it was not a risk. I said, in the post above, that you said it was not much of a risk or less of a risk than other deals.
ReplyDeleteTo quote your post from slightly above:
"Signing Can is not that big of a risk."
...and another:
"What do we have to lose".
I was explaining what we had to lose by pointing out the collective loss from Borini, Aspas and Alberto. You then started to bring up the Aquilani, Cole and Jovanovic deals (despite the fact that they are not really relevant to the Can deal).
Just because Jovanovic and Cole were bad or risky transfers doesn't mean that Can isn't.
ReplyDeleteRight, that's my point. That the Can deal is risky.
ReplyDeleteYou have said the opposite several times.
Why then did you bring up Cole and Jovanovic then?
But I said at the start that the Can deal is not as Risky?
ReplyDeleteDamned if you do and damned if you don't!. Firstly we complain of having a small squad then moan when we sign a supposedly squad player. With the Champions League next season we need more players, he is versatile and could be a great asset to have. No signing is guaranteed to be a raving success, stop crying.
ReplyDeleteI said I had reservations about the deal.
ReplyDeleteYou said it is not that risky a deal. You said £10m is not a lot in the current market.
I said I didn't think that it was a terrible deal, but I thought there was a fair amount of risk. I said that £10m can get you a player like Eriksen and that these 'smaller' deals can pile up and become costly failures. I gave the example of Borini, Aspas and Alberto offering nothing last season, despite costing around £25m, which is a lot of money.
You said (direct quote): "Bit those deals are better than Aquilani, Joe Cole and Javanovic?"
I said: "What point are you trying to make?"
You said (direct quote): "Signing Can is not that big of a risk."
Jamie, from what I've read about Sahin, it went wrong because of the guy's big head, and loan deals usually have a weak foundation to them (player feels expendable, because he usually is).
ReplyDeleteBuying Can at a relatively low price (Gosh, that's a shed load of money still), I agree that he is being bought for the squad next year. However, he won't be played out of position if he plays centre back and left back to cover in a very full season. It will give him the chance to acclimatise to a new league and prove himself for the future--a future that might see him take over Gerrard's position in the next two to three years.
I'm not saying he will be a success; I'm referring to how it could work out. The difference here is notable. He is young, hungry and has lots to prove. A permanent deal gives him the stability to do so.
Ok, so let's do it this way.
ReplyDeleteIf I were to be given the exact wages, transfer fee agent fee etc etc etc and what Aquialni was eventually sold for them I am pretty sure I will be able to prove that Aquilani would still have cost us double what Can's tarsnfer fee wa etcges etc, etc, would be if we ever had to part ways with Can.
Same with Cole who cost the club more than what we signed him for when we had to pay him out when he left for nothing in return.
Can's quote says he will lay anywhere
ReplyDeleteSahin would only play as deep lying midfielder, and didn't appreciate being played further forward
Lets hope he is a long term replacement for Gerrard
ReplyDeleteYet both Henderson and Sterling did not once moan being played as RB's.
ReplyDeleteYou keep bringing up Aquilani. Why!? You brought him up once as an example of a deal that didn't work, but I never argued with you on that.
ReplyDeleteI've told you that I don't dispute that the Aqua deal was risky and costly. You can prove it would cost twice as much as Can. It would mean nothing. I have never disputed that fact.
I disputed two things:
1) That £10m for Can "is not that big of a risk".
2) The Cole and Jovanovic deals are riskier deals than the deal for Can.
We know Cole and Jovanovic were bad deals, but if you compare the loss from one of those deals to the potential loss from a deal for Can, you can't say that Can "is not that big of a risk" and that Cole and Jovanovic were terrible deals. Can could prove to be nearly as costly as either of those deals.
If he fails, it is very likely he will cost more than Jovanovic and may cost a bit less than Cole, but it will likely be comparable.
When you compare those deals, the two free transfers are £10mil cheaper than Can straight off the bat. I know, they had costly wages and they had signing on fees and they had agent fees, but Can will have a signing on fee and will have agent fees and will have decent wages. Not to the same magnitude, but you have to remember, any calculation of the costs of these players would include the fact that Can, straight away, is £10m up on cost compared to either one of those two, before you add any other fees.
I'd get a second opinion if I were you
ReplyDeleteThat will ruin all my cokes
ReplyDelete"Same with Cole who cost the club more than what we signed him for when we had to pay him out when he left for nothing in return."
ReplyDeleteWhere does Can fall under this category?
Our comments look a bit odd now!
ReplyDeleteDoes Rooney speak enough English to communicate?
ReplyDeletePlease!
ReplyDeleteWell, Jaimie's Cassandra article seemed to open a Can of worms...
ReplyDeleteNah nah, we need a new Jason Carr. He is also a welcome upgrade on Jason with his much better grammar.
ReplyDeleteAgain, it isn't clear what point you are making.
ReplyDeleteIf you're simply pointing out that the Cole deal cost us a lot of money for very little. I agree.
We don't know what is going to happen with Can. We might have to pay him off to leave. He might do his leg in his first game and then we'll be down £10m plus the cost of his 4 or 5-year deal and his agent fees etc.. Then he'd cost more than Cole.
The risk of the Can deal is therefore similar to the Cole deal.
I asked both me and the other me and they both said I'm not mental so there.
ReplyDeleteA-ha, who is mental now Stuart!?
ReplyDeleteBoth of us!
Mwahahaha...
Oh...
How is Lallana a similar player to Can? One is an attacking midfielder, the other a defensive midfielder who can even play in defense.
ReplyDeleteSorry Jaimie this seems a bit lazy with the comparison to Sahin. This lad has played full back and despite having a preference to play centrally has played other positions without complaining about it to much. Sahin only had to play a bit further forward before throwing a babyish strop. Then there is age, mobility and other factors to consider. I won't assume the comparison has anything to do with their Turkish heritage but other than that I cannot see why you would compare the two.
ReplyDeleteGreg - perhaps you read the article more closely, and you will see there is an entire paragraph explaining the reason behind my comparison. You clearly missed it.
ReplyDeleteI did read it and argued against it with the middle of my paragraph. I. he is much happier playing other roles and more adaptable at it compared to Sahin. Sahin's lack of versatility despite being asked to another job was the problem. The only thing I didn't argue against was the competition for places. But the assumption is that we will sign Lallana and play him centrally. Lallana can play on the wing too and still may yet not sign.
ReplyDeleteThe Alberto and Aspas comparisons may have made more sense but once again I do believe we should allow players to at least have a bit of time playing at the club before we go around telling people we think they are not going to play much.
Quicker
ReplyDeleteYet second place is the closes he got to winning the league. I love Rafa but there was no Man City when he turned up. Chelsea only got going during his spell. He picked up a top four side. Lets not right off Rodgers just yet hey.
ReplyDeleteIt's not about giving players 'time'; it's about realising the reality of the situation, and forming an opinion based on that. It's having a proactive opinion, rather than a reactive one, and based on past history, it's reasonable (IMO) to question how/where Can will fit in , and if he'll get much playing time.
ReplyDeleteWait a minute so after the FA cup how many years was Rafa at the club? What did he win in that stage? So is it worse to not win something when you have built the team over a period of time or when you have just arrived and have to pick up the mess of a previous regime? Get a grip.
ReplyDeleteYes Rodgers is a witch. Burn him!
ReplyDeleteI was thinking more just putting a pillow over his head and softly saying " shhh it will all be over soon, those bad men will be good, nice quiet times, shhhh"
ReplyDeleteWhat is this "reality"?
ReplyDeleteFar more games to play next season, so even if he is a squad player & won't oust the likes of Gerrard, Hendo, etc., he'll still get the games & that's why this is a good move by BR. A much better option from the bench too, something we greatly lacked last season.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but you lost your credibility when you quoted Fifa 14 stats as your basis for a player's pace.
ReplyDeleteWe've got another 'We're doomed!' merchant here guys. We finish 2 points off a £1bn team and he says sack the manager. That we were ABOVE another billionaire -backed club and 5 places above the previous champions means nothing to this guy.
He would rather we didn't win a trophy for 5 years like we did under the final 5 Rafa years..
You are conveniently ignoring the bit where he says 'I do not care' (where he plays) in order to mitigate your comparison to Sahin.
ReplyDeleteNow where have we seen THAT before?
I have no idea what you're on about here.
ReplyDeleteSent from Samsung Mobile
I don't think I agree with your notion that he will be in the same boat as Alberto and aspas. Alberto was playing for the Barcelona B team (not first division), and aspas was playing for the team that finished essentially last in an already fairly poor league. Compare that to Can who has been playing in a top end team, in a fairly competitive league, whilst also putting in good performances in the champions league against Europe's elite. I think comparing them and their prospective game time is a bit like comparing apples and oranges.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, I wouldn't necessarily be concerned about Lucas and Allen keeping him on the bench. As much as I hate to say it (and deny it), every time either has a good game, they then back that up with 3 consequitive bad games. Both are past it, with no strength or pace.
You have taken one little part of the quote ie 'I see myself as a central midfielder' in order to claim similarities to the Sahin situation. Completely ignoring the other two things he said.
ReplyDeletePlus the club may well feel his best position is DM, LB or even CB. Just because the player thinks he is best in one position doesn't mean it necessarily is his best position. Lucas thought he was a AM when he joined...
What "reality"?
ReplyDeleteSuzi Quattro song coming from the Kop?
ReplyDelete............Really mate?!
ReplyDeleteTechnical ability should be a given,we want a player with guts also.
ReplyDeleteSecond that emotion,one of these days some kid is going to recommend a 'reality' player.
ReplyDeleteDepends on the 'venue'.
ReplyDeleteooohhhh shuuuut uuuuupp
ReplyDeleteRodgers may well be banking on this guy being Gerrard's ultimate replacement. Given what has happened with SG's role under Rodgers it becomes obvious that Lucas is not the kind of player he wants in that position. Lucas is fine, but he's a traditional holding midfielder who doesn't quite have the full range of passing and vision. He's more focused on defensive duties and holding the ball. Can will be more like Gerrard in that he will immediately look to push the team forward and once Stevie goes we'll really hurt from not having that in the team. So while it might be a struggle for Can at certain times I actually think he'll get game time ahead of Lucas in the deep midfield roles. Gerrard won't play 80 games next season, he simply can't, so it'll be up to the new guy to play cup games and a handful of league games. So while I'm still a Lucas fan I fully expect this to be the beginning of the end of his Liverpool career and I wouldn't be surprised to see him sold soone rather than later.
ReplyDeleteI raise my eyebrows at the suggestion that a Barca B player was expected to get regular first team minutes in a squad challenging for the title. I'm not at all surprised by Alberto's lack of time, I never once expected more from him and the better we did during the season the less likely that was going to be. Did folks really think it was going to be different?
I can't say I agree with comparing Can to Alberto and Aspas. (Please note: this is not me saying he is going to be the next Steven Gerrard either). Alberto was playing for the Barcelona B team (essentially reserves, and not even close to first division level). Meanwhile, Aspas was playing for the team that essentially finished last, in a league that's overall quality when it comes to the lower teams is very questionable.
ReplyDeleteCompare this to Can, who has been playing in a top end team, in a fairly competitive league, whilst at the same time performing well in the Champions League against Europe's elite.
Arguably, Can is in a completely different league to the other two when it comes to potential. Furthermore, I doubt Lucas or Allen serve as real competition when it comes to keeping Can out of the team. As much as I hate (and try to deny it), both are past it. For every good game either player has, they then play 3 consecutive bad games. Neither has any pace or strength (things which Can at the very least has).
Finally, Sahin was a has been when we signed him. He'd just come back from a long-term knee injury. Had no strength or fitness, and was thrown into the Prem (an extremely physical league). If you hadn't noticed, after being given time to regain this fitness, he has started playing to a far higher level once again.
Fabulous point. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteYou obviously don't get it, do you?
ReplyDeleteBenitez signed Aqua therefore the deal was deemed an automatic fail. It's also the best example for pro-Rodgers propaganda posting worshipers to deflect any potential criticism from the deity himself.
Rodgers can sign anyone for any price and it presents absolutely zero risk. Allen, Aspas, Alberto and Sahin were all tremendous signings.
Thank you for making me spill my tea through laughing like a mad man. Do hou do stand up anywhere?
ReplyDeleteHey, you get the hell out of here with your wretched perspective!
ReplyDeleteWhat next!? Logic!?!?!?
That goes without saying. It's akin to saying Carragher is the best hoofer the game has ever witnessed which is so blatantly obvious.
ReplyDeleteOf course Can looked good on videos. The same could be said of Allen, Aspas, Borini, Lucas, Alberto, Downing, Carroll, Adam... need I go on?
ReplyDeleteIt is a fact that Aquialni cost the club shed loads of money and was a massive transfer disaster. I cannot see how anyone would want to call this a case of "pro-Rodgers propaganda posting worshipers".
ReplyDeleteFSG's buying policy over the last two seasons including this current transfer window will back me on the following...
Seeing that you are so opinionated about me, please explain how signings like Aspas and Alberto financially will end in the same way as Aquialni?
Am I correct in saying that our buying policy is working towards a sustainable future?
So let's not be dogmatic, let's discuss the way our current transfer policy works.
Maybe you want to help Pete out with the reply I left for him?
ReplyDeleteLogic is going to be needed there.
Sorry we doubted you
ReplyDeleteYeah me too
ReplyDeleteDitto
ReplyDeleteWhat Jan the Jan? - Shows your age!
ReplyDeleteI'm fully aware of that mate. No need to go on or state the obvious. My point was I have not seen him live as yet and made an assessment on what's been available to me that's all. I'm hopeful that BRs done his homework this time.
ReplyDeleteReading your conversation with VermHat was quite enjoyable because as I predicted, and as is much noticeable by many, you failed to get a true point across and had to randomly throw in Aquilani when he wasn't relevant to the discussion, in order to deflect potential criticism from Rodgers when in fact there wasn't any. 10 Million for Emre Can sounds fair - relevance to Cole, Jovanovic and Aquilani, NONE!. Yes, we all know Aquilani was a blatant transfer fail, we can suggest it's a fact, but it has no relevance at all to the discussion here. VermHat questions you on it, but you fail to address it on purpose. If Rodgers signed Aquilani it would be a totally different story.
ReplyDeleteVery rarely do you post something that doesn't have a mist of pro-Rodgers propaganda. Myself and a few others see through it and my post above playfully highlights your posting technique. Part of the reason why I don't directly reply to you anymore is because if it's Rodgers related, the brick wall adjacent to me can muster up a far more objective discussion than you. When your head isn't buried in a bucket of sand, I'm happy to interact eg Lambert, Ibe et al conversation.
Therefore, I'm not going to argue your points as it's a waste of time. However, I will say, a 35M 'loss of utility' (Kanwar, 2014) ;-) is hardly working towards a sustainable future. We do not have a buying policy which is set in stone, look at the Lambert deal of 4M plus add ons for a 32 year old player. LFC conducts itself within domestic and continental Financial Fair Play frameworks, and it has never spent what it didn't have. Are you saying LFC had an unsustainable approach to business conduct before Rodgers? It doesn't have anything to do with him, but your inherent desire to defend Rodgers led you to randomly throwing it into the conversation which I believe proves my overall point.
A few comments on here. Ie. this is a Sahin kinda deal. What does that mean. Sahin was integral to the Dortmund double winning team, he was so good Real Madrid couldn't wait to get their hands on him, he struggled with injury and fitness and when I heard Liverpool took him I was over the moon. Dalglish never played him. It was hilarious to see Spearing Shelvey and Co picked for their passion above sheer class. Sahin is now back at Dortmund doing what he does best. The Emre Can comparison is based on what? The same agent, the same league? Regardless I hope we do buy him and I hope we do play him. I don't think Lallana will be coming, I don't think Allen and Leiva are good enough and Gerard has 2 seasons max left at the top, so I see this signing as a slow burner for the long term rather than an impact singing.
ReplyDeleteBecause they are completely different players for one! Next season we will have far more games and BR identified him as versatile enough to cover a number of areas. I have no doubt he will eventually find himself in CM/DM after a season or two and he has real talent. He is already an upgrade on Lucas, who was the only DM cover for Gerrard so clearly it was a position we needed strengthening. He is nothing like Sahin anyway, other than being of Turkish descent, i'm not going to belittle your knowledge of football but that's like saying why don't we forget about Moreno and sign a Striker for £15-£20m instead...
ReplyDeleteMust be true then. Is this where you base all ur football knowledge? Ridiculous comment
ReplyDeleteWell, if he is versatile then there shouldn't be a thing like playing out of position.
ReplyDeleteThe LFC website says it is pronounced Chan - I feel a right Charlie now!
ReplyDeleteOne or two comments around that we're still waiting for these "quality" players that Rodgers says we're focusing on. Lambert and Can are good but they are not really going to improve the team dramatically. It's always been easy for Liverpool to sign these mid range players and maybe one or two of them will come good but we genuinely need one of these big targets to come through. Moreno will be another potential for the future ... I think this is the reality of the club right now. We just can't afford to splash big money on proven senior players. Lallana would be the exception.
ReplyDeleteThat is why I said let's not be dogmatic.
ReplyDeleteVermhat is arguing with me that the signing of Can is as risky as a deal like Cole. Go read all my replies to Vermhat and tell me where I have failed to address this?