Unarmed, yet Shot SIX times. Murdered by the Police. Disgrace #Justice4MichaelBrown

1/09/2013 06:30:00 pm

Trouble at Anfield? LFC star ready to quit club over BR betrayal & Gerrard jealousy.

Earlier this week, Borussia Dortmund Sporting Director Michael Zorc confirmed that the Bundesliga giants are 'following' Nuri Sahin's progress at Liverpool. The Turkish midfielder is reportedly on his way out of Anfield, and reports in Germany today claim that the deal is almost done.

According to a report today in Sportbild, Europe's biggest sports magazine, the deal to bring Sahin back to Dortmund is '99% done', and claims that Brendan Rodgers' broken promises - and Steven Gerrard's alleged jealousy - are to blame for the midfielder's failure at Liverpool. The report states:

"The deal to bring Nuri Sahin back to Borussia Dortmund is 99 percent done.

"The 24 year old has been betrayed at Liverpool because coach Brendan Rogers lied to him when he signed, telling him that he would be the club's number six"

"Steven Gerrard is said to have also been jealous of Sahin, and when they played together, Sahin barely got the ball".


Some pretty strong accusations there. It seems to me that Rodgers just didn't know how to effectively use Sahin in the team, and if that's the case, why did he waste a massive loan fee on bringing him to the club?

Sahin has played just 11 minutes of football for Liverpool since his last league start on November 11, 2012, and since that time, Gerrard has played in practically every game.

By his own admission, Sahin - who cost Real Madrid €10m in 2011 - prefers to play in a deeper Gerarrd'like playmaking role, and that hasn't happened at LFC. The Turk admitted as much in an interview with the official Liverpool FC website last month:

"I’ve played my whole career deeper – that’s my position, but I have played as a number ten here. If I could choose a position it would be holding, as I feel more comfortable playing deeper and can give my all.”

If Sahin played in his natural position regularly, then Gerrard would have to move to a different position (most probably higher up the field), and perhaps he didn't want that?

Speaking to SportBild, Dortmund CEO Hans-Joachim Watzke suggested that Sahin is only effective if he's the centre of the team. He noted:

"Sahin only feels good when a team is built around him. He is a fantastic guy and a super footballer"

Sahin should've and could've been an asset for Liverpool, and for me, Rodgers has totally wasted this talented player. As I've argued before, he clearly doesn't have the guts to go against the club's senior players; if he did, he would've given the midfielder a consistent chance in a deeper role, especially during those times earlier in the season when Gerrard was woefully out of form.

Whatever the reason for Sahin's imminent departure, the move will have to go down as Rodgers transfer failure. Indeed, Liverpool could've saved the money on Sahin in the summer and put it towards the fee for Clint Dempsey.

It just goes to show that signing young, promising players is not always the way to go. The priority in the summer was to sign goalscorers/goal threats, and Dempsey certainly fits that description.

With the exception of Joe Allen (and possibly Daniel Sturridge, but it's too soon to judge), Rodgers' performance in the transfer market is underwhelming so far.

Jaimie Kanwar


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265 Comments :

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DerBaumMann said...

we could have also saved the 1m for yesil and put it to our transfer budget to buy dempsey.
IMO sahin is an excellent footballer, he was wonderfull at dortmund. Just look at the goals he scored against bayern ... If we cant use him, we should get rid of him as fast as we can, so if we could get him out without any more payment for him, lets do so..

Zanatos said...

I really don`t buy the whole jealous of him thing. I just can`t see it. 

I do agree though he must feel a bit let down, as he came to us, looked ok (not great), and was starting to settle in, then never got played again. I don`t like the bad comments though. End of the day we (Liverpool) are paying him a small fortune, and therefore a bit of respect should be shown, although I`m guessing these are his bad words, but those of someone just showing how he felt.I don`t see why we took him on loan in the first place really. The only loans which make sense are if you have a buy-out clause in it. Real said that wasn`t the case, so I don`t see why we got him, other than to get him fit for Real, or to raise his price for them. I would understand not playing a player, if you signed someone young, but signing a one season loan, and not playing them just seems a massive waste of cash, which could have been used elsewhere.

islesfan74 said...

The Rodgers failed promises makes some sense.  Sahin was prepared to go to Arsenal and changed his mind last minute.  I'm sure it had something to do with how Rodgers said he planned to use him.

The Gerrard jealousy angle is a bit strange though.  While it's possible (I guess), it doesn't seem to make much sense.  

It didn't work out. Cut our losses and move on, which is what seems to be what we are doing.  Would have liked to have seen him get a better chance to play more frequently though.  Oh well.

Jaimie K said...

Rodgers confirmed in August that Sahin was on the verge of moving to Arsenal until he 'persuaded' him to come to Anfield. He probably told him he'd be the main man in midfield, pulling the strings etc, but never followed through with that promise. Why else would Sahin give up Champions League football for a team who finished 8th in the league last season?

Tornike Khomeriki said...

The Bundesliga team representatives like making bold (but not always true) statements, so that is the least thing I'd bother about. What I do not understand is, Rodgers was the one who chose to bring Sahin to the club, so he must have had a pretty strong idea that Sahin would fit in well in his system. What has he seen in trainings that changed his mind?

This is the single most intriguing topic I generally wonder about with regards to out-of-favour players, and it is a pity we don't get to know such details about the goings at the club and are left to just watch from side.

CN said...

This is a very negative thread (yet again). Where have 'sportbild' got the info from to suggest Rodgers has 'lied' to sahin during negotiations? How do they know that gerrard is 'jealous' of him? I find both highly unlikely and the latter in particular laughable. Why on earth would a player like gerrard be jealous of a 24 year old load signing who has failed at this previous club?! I also don't understand the criticism of gerrards early form as he has always been in the top performers in the league according to opta in most of the important midfield areas (apart from goals) and if he hadnt played the games earlier he may not have got back to the form he's in now. I agree the sahin signing was strange and that Brendan doesn't seem to know where to play him but it was the same at Madrid and the Dortmund CEO even comments that a team needs to be set up around him to perform which might explain in. A top player should be able to perform a slightly different role to get into the team surely?!

Jaimie K said...

Of course you find it laughable and negative; you don't like the topic, so you find some way to slag it off. If you agreed with the content, you would've be moaning about it. 

People always attack newspapers for stories they don't like, but the fact is journalists have contacts and connections with various clubs, and that is how they get the info. Not everything is attributed to an individual, or in quote form, and that's because (obviously) certain people want to remain anonymous. That's how the media works.

alanacourt said...

Allen has been appalling. give me Henderson any day

James Cooper said...

I have only seen Sahin sporadically before he joined us. He played well in the deep holding role for Dortmund on the chances I watched him. He was unfortunate to be up against Alonso for the role at Madrid, but I don't think Rodgers had a clue how to utilize him. Agree that he has possibly been cast aside in favour of locals. But then again I wouldn't drop Gerrard as we all know he can create something out of nothing. A strange signing in many ways as we already had Lucas, Gerrard and to an extent Allen who can fulfil that role. I'd still have Sahin in my starting 11 though. Just a shame we won't see an impact from him at the club.

If he does go, do you think the club would look to replace him, or will they prioritise signing a Tom Ince type?

islesfan74 said...

Agreed. What's even more strange is that Sahin never really got the chance from the start.  If I remember correctly, even when he would start, he'd come off for a substitution less than 60 minutes in.  When he's not playing enough consistent minutes, how can someone expect him to contribute regularly.  Especially when he's coming off a bad season.

Paul.Philosophy said...

I agree, its easy for us to assume the situation, that said its best we do whats right for the club, if the deal has shown to be lacking in expectation then lets cut our loses and move on... better comes from taking the chance and learning from it, even if the learning comes at a cost. 

VermHat said...

To be fair to Rodgers, before he started playing Sahin further forward, he gave him a chance deeper but he proved to be a hopeless defender and incapable of basic marking. I'm not expecting Roy Keane, but he could at least stop leaving gaping holes in our midfield when the other team has the ball.

It is a shame, because I was really excited about this signing. I thought this loan deal could be a sneaky way to get a Champions League quality player at the club, when we're going to have real difficulty recruiting them. I thought that if this year worked out, we'd have a very good chance of keeping him long-term.

He has looked classy, nice touch, decent vision, but in some games has been pitifully anonymous.

Good luck to him anyway, if he does leave. It seems best for all parties involved. You would expect him to become a top player elsewhere and going back to Klopp seems like a good idea to rekindle his fortunes.

islesfan74 said...

I think given the way Henderson has come along, he's going to be the first off the bench for the midfield role in rotation with Allen and Lucas.

Can't imagine the club would be worried about replacing him since BR won't play him to begin with.

VermHat said...

He's barely been involved, so I would think that we'd proceed as we are in the middle. He'd probably give Suso his place at the point of the midfield and Tom Ince would take up Suso's place in the rotation for the front three.

Jason Carr said...

jaimie slight problem here was lucas not injured so allen was supposed to be playing out of position so whys gerrard getting the blame the fact is rodgers is full of sh"t and every top class player can see it no player will say it while there at the club ,hes clueless 150 pages of b0llocks that people who call it soccer bought 

Dickhead said...

As you have argued b4, I am 100% behind BR and FSG, you are very seasonal as usual, now you drive a different argument, I notice you have removed that 100% comment, WHY, dawwwwwwwww

Nige said...

In the few appearances he made for us he showed a class touch and calmness on the ball. He scored a few goals and I just can't see how a quality player couldn't get into our midfield at the moment? It's a shame really because he is a good player. Waste of our limited funds to be honest because we will have to pay a termination fee I'm sure? Allen, Lucas, gerrard and sahin can all play the deeper role so in that sense did we need him or Allen to start with. Either sahin or Allen would have done for 1 position to compete with Lucas (after recovering from injury) and gerrard. Actually I can't see why sahin could not be played deep with gerrard and Lucas in front?

Jason Carr said...

agree m8 complete waste of 15 million for a player we did not even need,think rodgers likes his boys who hes worked with when they were young,

Banoog said...

I wonder if Rodgers has an issue with Sahin's attitude. Liverpool are still in 3 competitions, which means plenty of time on the pitch for all the players. If a player is given a chance and doesn't perform, then move him on, but it is criminal that someone should be labelled a failed transfer if he hasn't been given ample opportunity to prove himself.

Even so, I would rather a player of Sahin's quality come to Anfield and fail, than us keep buying players that everyone knows are substandard. It's up to Rodgers and Sahin to make things work.

BobbyNOLA said...

I think lied is a strong word...  You dont pay a huge loan fee and expensive wages if you intend to sit someone on the bench and not give them a shot...  Tabloid journalism mentality...

islesfan74 said...

For one thing, if players didn't like BR that much, they wouldn't be signing long term, especially the younger guys (Sterling, Suso, Widsom, Kelly, etc).  Plus the more experienced players have signed new long term deals as well. Not to say they love BR, but I imagine if they disliked him that much, they wouldn't stay unless LFC offered them a ton more money than they'd get elsewhere. FSG hasn't exactly been generous with their money this season.

In terms of every top class player, we still don't have Champions League yet.  If a top class player received the same offer from a Europa League club and a Champions League club, wouldn't he choose the Champions League club 9 times out of 10?I wonder how much the loan situation came into play here as well. Perhaps BR just decided that he wasn't going to have Sahin after the season so why bother getting him fit for Real when his younger kids could develop and be here for the long haul.Not to say I am correct (or for that matter incorrect). Just a theory I was thinking about.

Sangertim said...

I am not really convinced by loan players. The little I have seen of him, he appears to be slow, and short of pace. Although losing another player is not good as we have a very small squad both in numbers and experienced quality. I wish him well, but I think he is only a squad player. I would rather see Coady promoted to the first team squad more regularly. The Gerrard issue I find difficult to believe; he's a Liverpool die hard fan wanting only the best for the team. In some ways its better the player goes, rather than cause unrest / problems in the changing room. His wages must be used to provide another quality player, hopefully fit and experienced who can play immediately if required. 

Tuomas Pukki said...

i would be very curious to see how the deal of sahin is constructed. If the reported high fee we are paying RM of his services not including the percentage of salary is tied to games he plays, i can understand why we arent playing him, as Rodgers is propably already looking towards the summer window (dont think we are making more business this january).

I agree that we have wasted a chance with sahin. he is quality player.

YNWA said...

Truth probably lies in between the spoofs. BR obviously had intentions of playing him in the centre hence Sahin commiting himself too Liverpool over Arsneal, what happened next is anyone's guess. Im for one gutted as he is a cracking player who should start ahead of Allen.. Dortmund will av themselves a ready maded playmaker and they know it... SICK.COM     YNWA

Jason Carr said...

before you try and have a pop at me at least try and get your facts right,kelly is refusing to sign a contract for starters,and as for champions league whats the point in talking about things that will not happen under fsg,we will be like everton in it once in a blue moon

Ramzey_Hendrix said...

I'll take these accusations with a pinch of salt (and vinegar). Yes Rodgers must have promised him "his midfield holding role" but why start him if he's not putting "his effort" into training? Henderson was being him in the pecking order but Henderson has improved and that why he's being getting more starts. If there's one thing about BR I'v noticed is that he gives chances, they may be far in between but at least he does but Sahin has to also take his chances. Shelvy hasn't been playing well and BR has dropped him. Sahin says he's best role was holding MF but I doubt that cos that's Gundogan's position, I think he's just frustrated and he's looking for a way to turn it on LFC, if he's really good in holding MF, am sure BR would have given him a run in during training and he may not have been impressed. Imagine Sahin against Diame or Toure!

DecDec89 said...

As far as the issue concerned with broken promises by Rodgers towards him then I think your explanation is probably about right. Why would you give up CL for us? Must've taken a little persuasion with certain offers of temptation to sweeten it somehow....Yet, although I believe he can be quite good and definitely believe he has been underplayed,  I hope the statements from the report above have'nt been inspired by Sahin as that is disrespectful to the max! I can understand it from other sources, as what better than to stir a hornet's nest for a little excitement. But not from the player, as that would just be petulant and the reason why he hasn't started more matches; as the manager and everyone else would see that in his character. His form hasn't been head and shoulders above everyone else's, so I'm finding the quotes from these people ridiculous! "he only feels good when a team is built around him"?.... What?!!! Pure crazy. I for one can't believe Rodgers promised that! Nor did the player expect it! And nor was Stevie, the man who pledged himself to the cause since, forever, JEALOUS. He wants to win titles! He knows that needs good players. He knows if that costs HIM a few starts and a bit of extra, hard work then that's what he would do. That's what he has always done. 

neilmellor said...

 re your last question: sahin lacks defensive quality. i know some BVB fans and everyone of them has told me that sahin could not defense. He is creative midfielder and can produce some eye-catching performance but only with one DM covering.

Neil Kirwan said...

dont you guys realise Sahin broke his nose against Udinese and had to under go surgery?? and thats why he's not been playing?? dont you do your own homework on LFC or just rely on this site or the newspapers for information??

Theres always an agenda when articles are written here, it is the job of a journalist to be impartial and fair and not distort truths.

You may claim that you dont do that but you do, you take snippets from articles which can then be put into any context you like, instead of printing the full quotes by people.

Nelly said...

Its a bit like F*x News, you get the news but from a completely slanted view....

neilmellor said...

Let me make a guess. Most of you has mentioned that BR persuade Sahin before his loan spell to Arsenal comes into reality. Maybe BR had decided is just to somewhat weaken a potential competitor in Top-4 race?

Kev-lfc said...

Complete crap as usual. We're do think up this drivel

Fairway76 said...

Wow - we all seem pretty quick to believe the thoughts of a player that has failed to live up to expectation since he left Dortmund. There are a lot of people on here ready to believe that Gerrard is jealous of Sahin (jealous of what exactly?? His hair??) and that Rodgers has lied to him.

None of us really know what was said in the negotiations but I have seen Sahin play on a number of occassions and what you don't see on TV all of the time is that his defensive work is very poor. His movement going forwards is good but he rarely makes an incisive pass, mostly being neat and tidy going sideways. Physically he is not able to cope in the Premier League and if he had gone to Arsenal I would be amazed if he would have got a regular start there as he is not as good as their midfield trio (or Ramsey to be honest).

To me, these sound like the words of someone who finds it easier to make excuses for his failure rather than accept that he may never find the form of his Dortmund days.

Do you all really believe that Sahin has been amazing in training and Gerrard's said to Rodgers "Boss, I know he's better than me but I don't want to play further forward" and Rodgers has gone "Yeah OK Stevie, F**k the results I'll play him out of position and then drop him". Come on!!

neilmellor said...

 Is there a schedule about his injury recovery?

islesfan74 said...

Wasn't meant to be a "pop" at you, though now after having re-read what I wrote, I understand why you'd think that. 

I will say that I disagree with your assessment. I was wrong about Kelly, but look at Sterling, Suso, Wisdom, Shelvey, Skrtel, Suarez, Agger.  You can even throw Brad Jones into that if you'd like.

My point was that a number of our players have signed long term deals while BR has been manager, including some of our most important veterans and younger players.  

Kelly is one example of a player who hasn't, though I can imagine LFC are probably playing hardball with him because of his knee injury.  But he's just one player who hasn't signed and he's also injured.

I do hope you are wrong about Champions League never occurring under FSG (and I'm sure you hope you are wrong as well).  But in the event that we make it to Champions League in the next couple of years, I think we will see top players be interested in us again because we will have more money to offer as well as the premium football.

DecDec89 said...

The only problem with the pay as you play deal that you propose, is that Arsenal had more or less wrapped it up so I can't believe we didn't at least match their offer to Madrid. I think the only way LFC could save any money would be for someone else to pay it. Me personally, I'd like to keep him for the rest of the season, as, if we're not signing much more now, then he could still offer lots for us. Either way, can't see him being at Liverpool next seson.

Ramzey_Hendrix said...

And his "supposed" move to arsenal may not have gotten any better. He's not strong than Diaby(when he's not injured), I doubt he'll be able to dislodge Arterta let's not even talk about Wilshere or Carzola. So that means he may have been keeping Aaron Ramsey company on the bench. I know he's good but I think he's not as good as we think, cause Mourinho is a cautious and even Sahin couldn't oust Alonso, even in Copa del Rey games

CN said...

Ha sadly I'm more than aware that not all LFC news is positive, far from it recently! I also know that journalists write absolute rubbish too, make things up and rip off each others work. Hence the same stories will appear in all the rags despite being nonsense. The fact is for this to be accurate the journo's 'contacts' must have been involved in the negotiations as well as be close to melwood (for the Jealousy comments) which I find most unlikely for a Foreign magazine. With regards gerrards form I still can't understand how him giving the ball away in central midfield, or even an attacking position, which results in a goal is his fault per se, the opposition still had to get through the rest of our midfield, defence and keeper. To then reference our inconsistent season and link that to his form only shows how crucial he is for us and therefore has to play

islesfan74 said...

Correct me if I'm mistaken.  But that game was about a month ago but even if he was being held out in the past month for precautionary reasons (understandable), he hadn't played in the Premier League since a month before that in the Chelsea game.

Crazygrazy said...

sounds like turkish toys outa pram and another excuse not to back manager and captain on this site plus hes had a broken nose thats y hes not got a sniff in lol

arthur blundell said...

I beleive BR actally thought Stevie G was done and he panicked,loading up on support players (mid field) i guess he got a real surprise,as i admittedly did.

DecDec89 said...

If the deal is "99%" done, then it seems a pretty silly headline grabber on the behalf of Dortmund (via contacts and connections) to close out the remaining 1%....

Davidblake74 said...

I do remember noticing that Gerrard never passed it to Sahin in their few games together and it seemed very odd to me. He deliberately ignored Nuri in a number of situations on the pitch - at a time when Stevie himself was playing badly.
I'd love to have seen him used more.

LeroyBeroy said...

I agree with the majority - sack Rodgers and let Pascoe do the job... NOT!! 

Sahin not playing, Gerrard playing well, Liverpool winning and moving up the league. BR thought he'd found a player who'd fit in and he doesn't, sh*t happens. 

Banoog said...

Yep, money could have been put to better use elsewhere. However, not sure if it's just about Rodgers liking his young boys, I think that, in addition, he has and will continue to struggle to attract big names - no Champion's League football, relatively little money (compared to the big guns) and a manager who is a nobody.

If and when Liverpool eventually get back into the top 4, and if this is with BR at the helm, then things will change.

Eric said...

Ok, first of all the "Bild Zeitung" is the biggest rag in Germany. It's them who also post rude articles when the Germans play England or Holland. They're pretty much the German equivalent of the s*n. So the whole jealousy thing you can throw right into the bin. Now, it's blatantly obvious that Sahin is being played out of position but not to accomodate Gerrard. Liverpool play with three in midfield with the central player either playing as a number 6 shielding defence or a number 10 supporting the attack although the latter I've yet to see. Either way, Sahin and Gerrard could perfectly play in the same lineup without anyone needing to move anywhere. For Spain, and that's the model Rodgers follows, Alonso and Xavi play on either side of Busquets. For Liverpool that would mean that either Sahin and Gerrard play on either side of Lucas/Allen or, which is what Sahin prefers, Gerrard and someone else would play on either side of Sahin. And that, would have left us with no room for Allen. So it is Allen that is the reason why Sahin is not being played in his best postion. Which is a crying shame because I'm sure he would have done a better job there.

DecDec89 said...

I like BR..........Can't help it, I just do.

Jaimie K said...

Exactly. I totally believe the Gerrard aspect of the story. Maybe not jealousy per se, but he probably felt under threat a little, and acted accordingly. If Rodgers was a strong manager instead of a soft touch then maybe things like that wouldn't happen.

anteater71 said...

If I remember it correctly, Arsenal insisted on a buy-out clause to be included into the loan deal. Real Madrid refused that and the deal fell through.

Harjbahia said...

Sahin seems a offensive midfield player when he has played, an eye for goal too, but if he's unhappy with how it has worked out then so be it, we only need those up for the fight and willing to challenge for positions. Gerro has been poor and seems to have turned a corner as fitness or as he suggests the return of Lucas, possibly why BR has thought end the loan, save the wage bill.
 My main issue is that centrally we have lacked creativity, lets face it Allen, sideways / backwards Hendo and Lucas are going to score very very few goals!! A long term replacement for Gerro is a priority, can we find another captain fantastic?!
Suarez sturridge Ince wouldnt be a bad front line of attack!
Backups when fit and firing (Borini, Carroll (planB) sterling.

Allen is currently well over priced but will come good, he has quality and if he improves on his scholes like tackling which will cost us in dangerous free kick positions, then the money will be well invested.

genuinely feel that we can get a positive result at Old Toilet so long as Agger/Skrtel are on it for 95 mins!! :-)

Jaimie K said...

What has Sahin's broken nose got to do with anything? He hasn't started since mid-November, which was ages before that injury.

If you want impartiality go to the BBC website. I'm under no obligation to be impartial, and I've never held myself out as being so. I have my personal views and beliefs about things, and they are deliberately prevalent in stuff that I write.

*Every* journalist and football fan has an agenda. There's no such thing as absolute impartiality (IMO).

DecDec89 said...

Thanks for the reminder. Age plays havoc with the memory :-)

Jaimie K said...

Rodgers comments in August 2012: 

"The player had his mind set on going to Arsenal and we had to convince him to join us instead. As soon as we realised he might be available it became our task to change the direction of the deal that was going through and wrestle the momentum away from Arsenal"

It wasn't a 'supposed' move to Arsenal, it was a factual reality.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/aug/25/brendan-rodgers-nuri-sahin-liverpool

Ramzey_Hendrix said...

If Sahin is as good as everyone thinks, then why was he behind Granero and Callejon in the RM midfield? And if he went to Arsenal, would he be ahead of Wilshere, Arterta, Carzola and Diaby(when he's not injured)? (N)

listen here said...

B R is a genius - and whose the idiot who thinks Yesil not up to it  ???????????/

islesfan74 said...

I think that the way everything went down with the last minute switch from Arsenal, the BR angle here makes sense on a broken promise.

But there's not much to support the Gerrard angle other than he "looked as if he was ignoring him on the pitch".

Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible. But it sounds a bit of a reach without more concrete evidence.

Fairway76 said...

Why do you say Rodgers is a soft touch Jaimie? He didn't seem like a soft touch when he got rid of Carrol and everyone was slating him - Carrol has hardley lit up Upton Park has he??

I wouldn't say Rodgers is a soft touch at all!

DecDec89 said...

Although I do personally think he is worth keeping hold of for the remainder of his loan, I totally agree on everything else.

Nelly said...

He started against Udinese so obviously you are wrong there. His face is in a protective cast as can be seen in the photos from training sessions this week.

You regurgitate stuff as its fact when its just newspaper babble to fill columns, not one source in the uk has printed this story and other sites today were reporting that dortmund arent interested in signing him with quotes also from 'sources'.

Nelly said...

6th december 2012, sahin starts vs LFC against Udinese. Do your homework Jamie if you want to be taken seriously

Nelly said...

And barring slip ups against Villa and Stoke, the midfield has been doing very well with the selections BR has been making, so why change it to accomodate a lightweight player with a bad facial injury. If he's afraid to get stuck in when 100% fit, theres no chance whe he's injured..

DecDec89 said...

"I'm Steven Gerrard, don't play as good as me if we share a position as you might prevent me from playing, and in the meantime, if we do start a match together, I'm not going to pass you the ball ok. This might backfire and cost us three points, but who cares, I'm Stevie G!!" No offence meant, but it astounds me that not only how quickly SOME people are ready to condemn this legend for taking a little time to hit some form, (maybe we really have relied on him so much in the past, that he is not allowed to ever have an off day. Stunning loyalty), but would honestly believe that he is capable of these ridiculous actions. This is Premier League Football, A living dream to be a player in his position, boyhood team, idolised, etc. It isn't about sulking with your mate  and choosing not to pass to him in the school playground.

DecDec89 said...

Jamie I fully respect everyone's opinions and very much respect yours, even this one; but on this occasion, you surprise me very much.....No worries though, all good.

DecDec89 said...

Like your comments but the Carroll thing is NEVER going to happen.

Jaimie K said...

Don't get me wrong, I'm still a fan of both Rodgers and Gerrard, I just feel that the manager is a bit of a puppet when it comes to the senior players. He doesn't appear to have the guts or the confidence to make tough decisions regarding the likes of Gerrard, Suarez etc.

Jaimie K said...

This is what El Hadj Diouf said about Gerrard a couple of months ago:

"'Gerrard was jealous of me back then as I had the world at my feet. There's no one more selfish... he doesn't care about anyone else"

Yes, it's Diouf (!), and he could be lying, but what if he's not? It's probably an exaggeration but there's possibly a kernel of truth to it too.

Gerrard is not a saint, and in my view, he's definitely capable of selfishness on the field.

lowey said...

so we play sahin week in week out in his preferred position , and true to form he plays well most of it and is a big hit with fans etc.
then he has the right to bugger off or real decide they want to use him!!!
bad business to start with. Liverpool would have been the ones used.
knowing the full story which we never will would be a big help.
from what ive seen I think sahin is an ok player some days, but I wouldn't have him as a holding midfielder in the prem, to tough and less time on the ball in most games. no big loss, especially hes not ours, full stop.
what an idiot spouting off about lfc and gerrard, just another no-body sticking the knife into liverpool which is bit of a trend nowa days

Jaimie K said...

Learn to read. The article says last *league* start. And do you think I really care if you take me seriously?

andy1206 said...

Hasn't Gerrard being saying that he has a more forward role anyway now because Lucas is back? Lucas is the one playing rather than Sahin I think.

Joe said...

You've also got to take into account the fact that Sportbild is a glossy mag with a similar credibility rating to the National Enquirer...

DecDec89 said...

Possibly true but then again, maybe a little like some of his younger players, Brendan too has to cut his teeth and grow.  

Jaimie K said...

According to whom?

DecDec89 said...

On this one Jamie I think I'll stick to believing my own eyes and what I,ve seen Gerrard represent, on field and talking to the camera, on countless occasions, than hearsay gossip originating from the mouth of pure, unadulterated, petulant, arrogance, that is Mr Diouf......If Stevie really was jealous of him then all hope surely has left.

Joe said...

lived in Germany for 7 years - it's everywhere there, it's not a credible source, more gossip and glossy pictures than anything of substance

VermHat said...

Now hold on one darn tooting minute, partner. I won't have you strolling in to this here internet with your fancy reasonings, calm considerations and perspective and such.

We don't like your kind and your fancy city slicker ways.

BEAST said...

NURI SAHIN played well in a deeper role for BORUSSIA DORTMUND but in the EPL you need to be physically up for the challenge to make that position.In this country you have to fight for the right to play football.If you're not able to do that players will walk all over you,this league is tough and unforgiving.
When we signed him i thought it was a good signing but i wasn't aware of his poor defensive play.Then it became clear that we'd signed the Turkish AQUILANI talented but lazy and not up for it.
Technically he's among the best at the club but if he isn't given time on the ball he looks average.He also goes missing for long spells.To play the ALONSO position you need to do two things, start attacks when we have the ball and protect the back four when we don't.The guy can't tackle or track players to save his life.
I'm sure he'll regain some sort of form when he leaves for a league that is played at slower pace that allows technical ability to flourish more.But anyone who can't understand why he isn't playing on a regular basis in the position he wants to play,watch the EVERTON match again.

Jaimie K said...

Gerrard slagged off Diouf in his book whilst he was still at the club. That's hardly professional, or classy, is it? He may not have liked the guy but to diss him whilst he's still at the club reveals a lot about Gerrard (IMO)

Charlie said...

lol good points mate

Jaimie K said...

How do you know it's not a credible source though. Just because something has 'glossy pictures' doesn't mean anything. Granted, it's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but can you provide anything to back up the view that it's not a credible source? People say the same thing about The Mirror/The Daily Mail etc and it's equally inaccurate. Both are credible sources for football news, and both get lots of things right. People just don't want to accept it because they're deemed to be tabloids.

I lived in Germany for 15 years (still miss it), and I recall Sportbild getting lots of things right.

VermHat said...

I think people are confusing Sportbild with the Bild newspaper, which is, admittedly, a rag.

Septimus_severus said...

@liverpoolkop:disqus
I have long said that when Gerrard needs to be dropped as Captain and that time is coming a lot sooner than people think, there would be massive unrest.
This kid Sahin is the real deal and would with regular games prove hos worth.
I long advocated that Carragher should be dropped (2 seasons ago) and was attacked for what was obvious.
I draw everyone's attention to the fact that when Rafa tried to DROP CARRAGHER that CARRAGHER started whispering behind his back.

BR will have a REALLY big job on his hands next season I can't see how he can build a young team when the Oldest outfield player is Gerrard.

The test of how good a Manager BR is will be how  Gerrard is eased OUT of a automatic start berth.
I'm not sure Brendan has the strength of character to do it

Ramzey_Hendrix said...

I didn't mean to sound that way, I said "alleged" due to the fact that papers say stuff to sell. He may not have been any closer to joining Arsenal as we were any closer to signing Dempsey. We may never know the true details invloved but my point is that on CURRENT form, Sahin won't even be able to break into the Arsenal 1st 11.

heavy said...

I'm German...beat your 15 years by about a million...trust me it's a rag..would not wipe my arse with it, the only thing I've ever seen them get right is the date!
Who cares anyway?
He's been crap! well rid 

Charlie said...

lol... i agree mensa man.

Once in a blue moon in the CL.. thats a fact right?

Jaimie K said...

Agree, Septimus. Gerrard is bigger than the club; the fans have made it that way, and the club is culpable for creating that too. Rodgers definitely doesn't have the strength to drop Gerrard; he's probably hoping he decides to pack it in of his own accord so he doesn't have to deal with it.

Anthony Finnigan said...

i worship king kenny as a manager it has burnt my head out he was sacked for a bad 3 months in the league and can't wait till brendans gone the man is a nobody who has won ? and kennys won 4 english league titles and took us to wembley 11 times as a manager, brendan aint ever gonna do that but FSG give him more time and money

Harjbahia said...

Thanks, yeah agree - only mention Carroll as I can not see West Ham making the loan deal anymore than that. The wee Geordie club will not pay so my fear is that we will be stuck with an unhappy player.. BR Needs a plan B or a different problem for strong tall defenders (i.e stoke etc) when the passing game doesnt work..

Jaimie K said...

You're probably right.

dan_mac said...

LOL you are not a journalist bruv

Joe said...

It is my opinion, nothing to back it up. With football gossip, generally speaking, there are so many sources that don't know one end of a story from another, there's a massive 'copy and paste' brigade out there and relatively little actual journalism - I find you have to read from many sources and look for similarities and discard or credit at our own discretion. Sportbild is not a source that I would ever consider to be worth reading. Also miss Germany, it was a great place to live and I'm sure it still is.

Jaimie K said...

Yeah, I absolutely loved living there.

gilstrap said...

 Ive been saying for ages that rogers panders to the strong characters at the expense of so called weaker ones.....

Billabong said...

Absolutely spot on!

Gerrard jealous indeed!!!! And using that filthy waste of DNA, Diouf, to back up the theory too! Now THAT'S laughable.

Chib Akobundu said...

Harkbahia you make some interesting points. I will agree with on most of your points. It is clear to say that Brendan Rodgers' transfers so far have been dismal failures.

 The players on our team that even trouble other defenses a bit are Suarez (simply because he is so darn unpredictable), Sterling, and Shelvy (latter two have  an incredible work rate). That is about it. These three individuals have been consistent in their form all season and none of them was a Rodgers signing. Stevie G had his worst start in I don't know what this season. Still on the pitch due to obtaining "captain" and "legend" status. In his defense he has started to come good lately. Good for him and good for Liverpool. I hesitate to include Allen because I have seen him missing in many games. He can best be categorized like half the team "inconsistent."

We have lacked creativity in the central mid position. Allen was supposed to be our major string puller who would allow Gerrard the freedom to move up a bit and support the attack when called for. So far Allen has failed in my opinion to deliver. Oh let me guess what the Liverpool fans will say. "oh he will get good in time, it's his first season." Well that can be said about everyone pretty much on the team. The fact that Liverpool is still being heavily linked with Xavi Alonso just means to me that he has never really been replaced. When was the last time we saw anyone hoof it in from the half court line into the goal. No-one has been crazy enough to even try it since. The Spaniard was a special player the likes that we won't see around that often until now that is. There is a possible signing from Spain that has got me excited, "really excited." It's all over the media that BR is interested in a player called Benat Etxebarr. This Spaniard plays for Betis in La Liga and he is said by many to be the next "Alonso." I am ecstatic at the thought of his joining us because we do not have a lot of really technically gifted players. This cat is supposed to be able to dance around people with the ball. The ball is said to almost stick to his feet. He is from what they say an artist with the ball. Clearly the kind of player we have been lacking in the center of the park. We do not produce this type of player in England and It is a shame. 

I think that Brendan Rodgers can make amends by finally getting it right in the transfer window by getting FSG to cough up the 20 million that Betis wants for Etxebarr. At 25 he falls within the age range that FSG is comfortable with. We are heavily linked with this player I hope that Rodgers pursues him half as hard as he has pursued the transfer of Joe Allen and is now pursuing that of Tom Ince.

Highlandermk said...

What about the criticism of Gerard? Everyone can de criticised according to the performance on the pitch. Gerard is a legend and he is the spirit of the team for years but he didnt performed at his best this season(although last game was perfect as at his best days).Garragher is a legend aswell but he had costs us a lot of points last 3-4 seasons. Lots of people has defended him from the criticism. Emtotions and respect for someone can not stand on the way of objective criticism. There are players who got everyone excited when they have signed for us but they havent got the chance to prove them selves although we had really bad season and lot of team members under performing. No attackers and Assaidi didnt get any chance, clueless midfield and not enough time on the pitch for Sahin. Something is wrong in the club for a long time.

CN said...

What are you basing that on Jaimie? The fact that you think he should have dropped gerrard earlier in the season and didn't? The fact that he backed his best player in suarez and you wouldnt have? Maybe he disagrees with you about how to run a football club? Surely it's not fair to label Rodgers gutless for not dealing with gerrard and Suarez as you would have liked when many would back the way he has dealt with them. And looking at the way he handled the carrol situation, managing carra, his comments to motivate Enrique/downing/ sterling/hendo/sturridge etc doesn't smack of someone who isn't willing to speak his mind to his players, or a 'puppet' as you would say.

gilstrap said...

I agree with jaimie 100% on this and have stated it on threads way before this one......he was tuff on carroll because carroll doesn't influence the squad or dressing room ..the same as henderson or downing dont they are easy targets.......look how hes slavering over carra in the papers all week ....im not saying carra doesn't deserve it ....but i think rogers only does it because carra like gerrard and a few others massively influence the ranks ...he even asked them who was worth keeping ... i like a lot of what rogers is trying to achieve but hell never be great as hes a sort of coward and bully in many ways

gilstrap said...

 trust me i dont often agree ...but JK is bang on with this ...

gilstrap said...

 Gerrard surrounds himself with goons in pubs and bars ...ive heard all sorts of stories.hes no saint

thered_beard said...

The owners shouldn't have spent so much money on getting Rogers and his backroom staff in the first place they should have went for Laudrup who was a free agent

CN said...

But what if he is lying? To resort to quoting a disgusting individual as El Hadj Diouf doesn't exactly strengthen your argument ;) I appreciate you call every Liverpool fan who backs our players 'fawning sheep' who 'worship players like Gods' (or words to that affect) but why do you always take the opposite view regardless of evidence or basis? You always assume Suarez is guilty (sometimes you're right) and now assume a German sports mag and El Hadj Diouf of all people are correct with groundless assertions about our captain that I've only ever heard good things about from other players and coaches.

Nelly said...

lol why did you delete or edit my comments with regards as to when sahin last started a game for liverpool?? was it because you were proved wrong?? they were in no way offensive i did not use bad language just absolute facts, i did not attack any one apart from proving that you were completely wrong about why sahin hasnt been playing.

you want intelligent, accurate debate here but when anyone proves somebody wrong (apart from you doing to others) you edit their comments or delete them??? why is that??

gilstrap said...

humans are humans at every level DecDec....footballers at a club act no different to packers in a factory ....or brickies on a site...they harbour all the same emotions ...in fact more because to get where they are you have to driven and single minded...henry kissinger said power is the greatest aphrodisiac... trust me for the money and kudos involved these guys would sell there own granny....dont be kidded by  pr stunts which are orchistrated to get better sponsor shipmoney.......these guys are not and never will be saints

Timm said...

Who is this Rogers guy the Sportbild refers to? Don't believe anything you read there ... it's Germany's version of The S*n ... 

Jaimie K said...

I base it on the following:

* Endless, sycophantic praise for Gerrard and Carragher.

* Endless undeserved praise in press conferences for senior players, even when they blatantly don't deserve it, telling us that Skrtel et all played 'fantastic' even after defeats, and personal mistakes that led to goals.

* Failing to drop Skrtel, Agger, Gerrard and Reins in the first part of the season when their repeated mistakes were costing the club goals. (he brought Brad Jones in when he had an excuse, i.e. Reina got injured)

* Continually defending Suarez for absolutely *everything* to the extent he paints the guy as some kind of Saint. According to Rodgers, Suarez never dives, never commits any bad fouls, is never deserving of any yellow card, and is never treated fairly by refs. Not *once* this season in any interview or press conference (pre or post match - and I've watched them all) has Rodgers admitted that Suarez has done anything wrong this season. That is weak management, and it is dangerous. Contrast that with David Moyes, who publicly blasted Neville for diving, and slated Fellaini for his headbutt on Shawcross.

Re the examples you mention:

* Carroll, Downing, Enrique and Henderson: they are not Rodgers' signings so he can get away with telling them what's what. What does he care? Privately, he probably wants rid of the lot of them anyway, and his critical comments certainly suggest that. It's easy to criticise less-popular players that are already under the cosh from fans and the media.

* Sterling? Come on! He made one comment about Sterling in a TC documentary, and that was just to tell him to basically shut up and listen. Plus, Sterling was 17 at the time - it's easy to show authority over a teenager.

I'm not his greatest fan, but Rafa Benitez is the only LFC manager over the last 15 years who had the balls to handle Gerrard in the right way. He wasn't afraid to sub him, or drop him, and he never allowed Gerrard to be in his 'king of the castle' comfort zone.

Rodgers is the opposite; he clearly worships Gerrard just like the fans do; in fact, I believe he possibly even feels intimidated by him. Look at their respective achievements in the game. Gerrard is a European Cup winning captain, and one of LFC's greatest ever players. Rodgers has won zilch. There's probably a slight inferiority complex there (just my opinion), which affects the way Rodgers handles Gerrard.

Benitez had the track record, the confidence and the authority to treat Gerrard just like any other player; Rodgers does not have that, and it's a problem.

Do you really think that Gerrard fears for his place? He knows that if he is fit, he will be in the team, even if he plays poorly.

Just imagine if Rodgers actually dropped Gerrard; the fans, ex players and the media would probably be on his back, and he just doesn't have the authority or the respect from people to deal with that.

He's too nice to deal with that sort of backlash; he needs a bit of Mourinho-style meanness and, dare I say, arrogance, but that usually only comes with proven success.

Jaimie K said...

Drop the snide tone in your posts and they won't need to be edited. I've seen posters like you a thousand times: you dislike the site, so you try and find any excuse to pick, and when you do, you throw in snide remarks. Just attack the argument, not the person, and there won't be a problem.

islesfan74 said...

Brendan's been here for 7 months and has spent a fraction of what Kenny spent, mainly because FSG wouldn't let him.  

Kenny was here for 18 months and spent a 100 mill on players who haven't lived up to their billing because their price tag was so big.  Granted part of that spending was offset by Torres and Babel, but he and Comolli still spent it. And the results were worse than the year before.

If Kenny was brought back, I personally would not have had an issue with it since his impact on the club is so profound. The argument could be made (and it certainly was by many) that he should have been given more time.Only issue I have with this statement is that regardless of your feelings for Brendan or Kenny for that matter, Brendan hasn't been given more time and he hasn't been given more money. Yet.

DecDec89 said...

Fair point and you're entitled to say what you want. I too rate Kenny very highly, why wouldn't I, he has done amazing things for our club as player and manager. Before BR was appointed and the news first broke that Kenny was being sacked, trust me when I say, all the toys came flying out of my pram! (much to the dismay of my Mrs I must add) But the truth is that I can't keep clinging to the past looking for reasons to moan. I have accepted Brendan as our manager in the now. I don't know what the future is and have no claims that I can see into it. I don't know what will happen, so I prefer to dream of positives and keep the faith. If you can see that future then I would be most grateful for a few tips in the right places! In the mean time, I can see things that are happening at the club and it fills me with optimism. I can only apologise if you do not feel this way but that's why you do you and I do me.....Appreciate the comment, thanks.

Hoq said...

Why build a team around a loan player?

Jaimie K said...

Just because Diouf isn't liked generally doesn't mean he isn't telling the truth. Why would he lie after so many years? What does he have to gain?

Suarez *is*guilty 95% of the time (if not more).

~And re Sportsbild - get over it already. If I'd posted something from there that you *agreed* with, you wouldn't be slagging it off. That's always the way with fans, and it's so predictable: post something they agree with from any source, and they're happy as larry. Post something they don't agree with and they cycle through the usual attack checklist:

1. Attack the author of the article. He/she is either biased/has a personal issue/a bad writer/misinformed/not an LFC fan etc.

2. Attack the source, which is not credible/tabloid/never gets anything right/renowned for making stuff up/worse than *insert dodgy magazine/newspaper title*

And on and on it goes.

Jaimie K said...

DecDec89 - Just wanted to say thanks for commenting recently. You're a welcome addition to the site, and you post some great stuff.

islesfan74 said...

Here's the problem: If one of Brendan's first acts as manager is to strip the longtime Captain of the armband, and the team goes in the tank, he's in deep trouble.  

If the team does well, then all is fine and dandy.  But no one can really claim with a straight face that they realistically feel the team would have done better against West Brom, Arsenal, Man City and Man United had Gerrard been stripped of his captaincy.It would have embarrassed the Club Captain, and if as you say he has become bigger than the club, then Brendan would have been in much bigger trouble.  Whatever goodwill BR may have created with the fans is gone and they would be calling for his ouster before October hit.

BR is not stupid.  He may say stupid things from time to time (who doesn't), but the last thing he wants to do in his first months on the job is to pick a fight with one of the best players in the club's history.

DecDec89 said...

Cool, but with so many youngsters it COULD, just could be a way of having that experience that is so lacking from our squad, fully 100% behind him. Some may call his methods in this area weak, or indeed gutless, but this is based on what really? We hear what we want to hear and although I agree often with many comments on this site, (the ones worth reading at least) I don't see him in the way you describe him, "coward and bully". Sorry dude, I just don't. 

DecDec89 said...

Have to hold my hands up there as I've never read anyone's autobiography or the type; so I didn't know he'd said that. I don't always know all the exact stats and such as I'm a bit old school and go more on emotion, (positive is preferable). So if that's what he said then fair enough... shame on you Stevie. I still think I can forgive him on this occasion though, as being bias, I have no love for Diouf and believe he was a bigger negative tarnish on our club than others would have you believe about certain other players still breaking a gut to represent for us. I too have dissed people in the past and can only hope they haven't held it against me for too long. Blimey, who knows, they may have written about me in their books! :-)

StumblingJackSplash said...

It's a sign of an inexperienced manager. His first two signings were 'familiar faces' rather than what was required.

Sturridge would have possibly been a better option than Borini, and Dembele or Moussa Sissoko instead of Allen.

So far none of Rodgers' signings have made the required impression. Rather Dalglishesque in that regard.

CN said...

But Jaimie, most articles are based on opinions and so one can either agree or disagree as you say. However the comments made in the German mag are not opinions, they are assertions that things have happened or have been said. These are baseless as there is literally no evidence to back them up and no reason to believe a foreign mag could obtain this info. There's. o source, no quotes, nothing! It's not that I don't agree with it, it's that I don't believe it happened and there's no reason to think it did. If a German rag said they thought you dressed in women's clothes on a weekend and has heard you discussing it with friends, does that mean its accurate? Or an opinion that can be agreed or disagreed with? Or just baseless rubbish that can't be backed up (I hope ;)

DecDec89 said...

Neither am I.......Actually, is anyone? Don't misinterpret my point. I am fully behind Gerrard for what he has done for my CLUB and respect him to the max for all he has given. Who or what he is in private is of no concern to me. I do not profess to idolising him as a God just because I big him up and my original point a few comments ago was in relation to him "not passing the ball to Sahin as he was jealous of him".  I'm in his corner and will always be for as long as he pulls on the shirt, that's all, and have no desire for man love.

StumblingJackSplash said...

So he only gave FSG the edited version of his 180 page life's work. No wonder they fell for it. :)

Jaimie K said...

Why wouldn't a German mag know this info? Sahin is heavily linked with a return to Borussia Dortmund. Their CEO and Sporting Director have both publicly stated over the last week that they're monitoring Sahin's situation, and that he'd be welcome back to the club. The same article also interviews Dortmund's CEO, (Watzke), who discusses Sahin. It is perfectly possible that Sahin is still in contact with people at Dortmund, and it is equally possibly that someone affiliated with the club told Sportbild this stuff off the record (after speaking with Sahin).

You are trying too hard to rubbish Sportbild's credibility when it is obviously possible they have inside info.

StumblingJackSplash said...

Agreed. Defensively, he needs 'babysitting'. Lucas could maybe do the job, but Allen certainly couldn't.
It would suit Gerrard and the team to play him at the head of midfield to link up with the front three, but then we'd need a destroyer that gets around the pitch like Masch or Momo Sissoko did (before his eye injury).

StumblingJackSplash said...

But any new, and especially young, inexperienced manager is going to go down the 'keep the fans on side' route by 'looking after' Gerrard.
The internet would go into meltdown if our manager was as ruthless as the likes of Paisley had been with such greats as Hughes and Tommy Smith.

DecDec89 said...

Whether it works out for him at West Ham or not, I don't think it will be allowed for us to have an unhappy 35m player not even making the squad. Someone will be interested at the right price( and a massive financial loss to us as we all know) I'm wrong about things sometimes and other times I'm right, it's just opinions at the end of the day, (although some would have you think that by disagreeing with their view you are actually ridiculing their mum!) I agree with the stoke thing but think it lies down a different path on this occasion, to the Andy Carroll one...

CN said...

'Sycophantic' praise, surely this suggests you think it is to his benefit to praise them which then reasonable suggests its a wise move ;0)

I don't think you can level praising, or defending, his players as a weakness. That's very cynical and does not take into account his methods of man managing, right or wrong (but not necessarily weak). You then criticise him on other occasions for publicly suggesting players need to improve so he can't really win. But apparently those players are 'unpopular' so Rodgers thinks he can get away with it! Very cynical indeed.

The vast majority of the above comment is as baseless as the article you quote. Assertions that Rodgers is intimidated by gerrard, really? This is plausible of course but just because you think it is the case doesn't mean it is, and the only evidence of this in your mind is that he praises too much and plays/publicly backs his best players. I asked what you based your opinion on re 'the puppet' comments and all you've done is list your overly critical interpretations of his man management skills

Paul H said...

Jamie K,you are a big child..why don't you take criticism like a man instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and peeing in your romper suit.Your indignant responses don't help your desperate attempts to be some kind of self-styled oracle as far as all things LFC are concerned.

DecDec89 said...

I agree. In this day and age it's quite difficult to believe all you hear unless it comes directly from the source. As the accusations come across, I can't help but find it all a bit far fetched. Still, that's just my opinion. Starting to wonder if people are actually entitled to them anymore.

Jaimie K said...

Obviously much of what I've stated is my opinion and inference. I'm not really bothered whether you think it's baseless or not. I never said I was stating facts. I've explained exactly why I feel Rodgers is a puppet when it comes to senior players, and those observations are obviously critical.

It's not cynical; it's reading between the lines. I've been slated by people dozens of times over the years for doing exactly that on a variety of LFC related situations, and most times, I end up being proven right. And it's nothing to do with having any special insight or intelligence, just a willingness to see reality when it's staring you in the face, and not allowing personal bias to get in the way of interpreting said reality.

You, for example, would clearly not be able to assess Rodgers' reign in a clinical, non-biased manner, mainly because - from where I'm standing - you suffer from the same affliction as most fans, something I call obligate fandom: this is when fans subconsciously refuse to see the truth of a situation because they feel obligated to be positive about the club/players/manager, because they feel that's how a fan is supposed to behave.

With that type of outlook, it's easy to miss the obvious when it's staring you in the face, especially when the obvious is something negative about a player/manager you really like/respect.

I don't suffer from obligate fandom, and I accept I'm probably in the minority, but I prefer it that way. It doesn't mean I support the club any less than you or anyone else, it just means I'm more detached from the (sometimes destructive) emotions that come with being a football fan.

To be clear, I'm not for one second saying that the way I view things is the right way. It's just me.

DecDec89 said...

Anything that glossy would not make good toilet paper, but have heard it burns quite well and glows with a blue aura!    :-)

Jaimie K said...

But it worked for them, did it not?

DecDec89 said...

Thankyou for putting it in much less words than I have managed.

Condemned40 said...

Sahin played all over our midfield at different points and never looked exceptional, he hasn't looked the same player since he left Dortmund. He was played in the holding role a few times in Europe for us and didn't exactly boss the midfield. It's a lot to ask for a player to come into the side and make an immediate impact but given that he was only ever going to be with us for a year there wasn't much point in persevering. It was a gamble that didn't pay off. 

DecDec89 said...

Where did you get the info about Carragher whispering? Just interested as you must have really good hearing to hear someone talking so quietly.....Just joking so PLEASE don't take offence, just amazes me how many people on this one single thread have slated two of our most loyal players who want success more for the team than I believe they do for themselves. And what exactly have they actually done to be getting this negative treatment. Of course Gerrard can't go on forever and will peter out. When that day comes that he would hinder the team I think his most loyal fans, including himself, will acknowledge this and I expect him to respectfully bow out gracefully. This absolutely does not apply to all players but in the case of SG and JC I would take some convincing as I think even when they retire they will both want to be involved somewhere for the good of the club. BTW, wasn't Carragher quoted recently stating it was LFC or nothing? Doesn't sound like a spoilt brat to me...

CN said...

With respect though Jaimie you're making assumptions based on comments by a journo at a German sports rag that doesn't quote anyone or even pretend to and makes ludicrous accusations amongst others that our captain was so jealous of sahin that he wouldn't even pass to him in match! Credible? I think not

Manalicream said...

I know what you're saying how Rodgers may be slightly afraid of the senior players, but come on, Gerrard is better than Sahin could ever dream of being! Even at 32, Gerrard is a far superior footballer than Sahin, I think he's starting to show that now he's adapting to life on the pitch with a hearing aid and a zimmer frame.

Gossyboy9 said...

at the end of the day if your good enough and performing well you will get in the team and sorry to say he looked some what laboured and not to the pace of the game in games , i cant see how gerrard would get jealous playing a more advanced role ,specially when thats the role he played so well when alonzo was in the team , its a shame because im sure sahin is a class player just maybe previous injuries had slowed him down a bit and playing in teh premier league and the pace of the game made him struggle a bit to get where he needed to be ,and im sure rogers wanted to build his play around him but you cant build a team around a player that is struggling

ScottyBoy said...

With Rodgers formation, you need two players capable of holding to cover for the advanced fullbacks.  Nuri just lacked the pace and physicality to perform this task in the premier league.  He is obviously a great player, but in Rodger's system there was no role for him.  I could see him thriving in an Alonso-esque role where a little less is asked defensively.

On a related note, if this story is true we likely have zero chance at landing Arda Turan.

DecDec89 said...

As huge a player as Gerrard has been for the club, it is only because of his consistent performances and dragging out results single handedly at times, that the fans have taken him to their hearts and enjoy nothing more than singing their hero of the moments name (and I'm sure by now you appreciate I am one of them). We talk of SG as a legend; when was the last time we had one. Dalglish? Maybe Xabi if he comes back and finishes his career with us :-) So of course he is massive to those of us that watch our teams play, with a tribal type loyalty and affection to our "colours". However, to say we think of him as "bigger than the club?" In who's world? Credit where it's due is one thing but that's over hype to the extreme. NEVER could I put ANYONE above the team. (Even if Messi was to declare his undying love for the club and his desire to play for us was such that he was prepared to play for nothing, would I hold him in such esteem as to give him more importance than the club as a whole. When I look for results and watch the matches, I am looking at how well the TEAM has done, NOT how well Gerrard or anyone else has performed as an individual. If your preferred player has played a blinder that is just a bonus and something to brag about at work to Chelsea, Manc etc, colleagues....

Bubbles said...

How does Kenny Rodgers let a player like Sahin move on and yet he keeps playing his stinking useless Joe Allen? Typical average manager with an average mentality. Somebody take him back to Northern Ireland together with his average signings.

CN said...

Finally I'll say this: Are there any proven facts in the article? Answer - no. Is this an opinion piece by the journo? Answer - no, they do not offer an opinion rather they are making statements/assertions that these things have happened. Is the article credible? Answer no, because of the above and the fact that this has been written by a German rag concerning a German (born) player returning to play for the German champions. In summation - codswollup

DecDec89 said...

I very much appreciate that Jamie. As I've said before I do like the site. There is a good mix of views and opinions. Admittedly I can get a little emotional at times but I'm only human and my passion brings it out. Again, thanks very much and I'm sure I'll keep the comments coming  :-)   cheers 

CN said...

Haha thanks for the psycho analysis Jaimie. 'Obligate fandom' - absolute classic (though typically arrogant and patronising). For the record I am by no means a fawning fan, I actually detest a lot about football just as you do. I do however support the club, if one doesn't then what's the point? You can talk about your objectivism but how can you also be a supporter? You judge the club impartially but then if you are so detached surely its all meaningless? I criticise when I feel it's justified. Having a go at Rodgers over results is one thing but he can't seem to do anything right in your eyes, or you give this impression from your posts despite you constantly saying you are still behind him. I believe such criticism is unwarranted at this early stage but don't expect to be labelled with various patronising insults from you for having the temerity to say it. I appreciate you disagree on a lot of things and respect your

Mark Andrew Rodgers said...

What a load of shit! It's basically this - the lad aint good enough

DecDec89 said...

As a plumber, sharing their emotions would be okay if only I could share their wages! P.s, my granny's for sale....anyone?

Pete said...

Sahin got enough chances and he was average at best. I like Allen as a player but his performances are average at best too. Henderson is better than both of them. Gerrard has played about 10 positions for LFC and has a better 'end product' as JK puts it so Sahin should carry on with it and be professional. 

A few youngsters impressed and got more chances on the pitch, Hendo showed he is worthy, why can't Sahin do the same and earn his place? 

Pete said...

But who would be appointed captain? Does that mean Gerrard goes to vice captain and Carra gets dumped. Pepe's form is up and down, Agger can get injured...

It's easier said than done. Radical changes wont solve anything. 

Zanatos said...

I think at first it was to do with fitness, he had been out injured, and not played much the season before

Zanatos said...

I agree, I don`t blame Sahin for wanting to move on at all. BR made a error on this one.

Zanatos said...

spot on, which is why this deal never seemed a good one for us. Real had basically already made it clear, they didn`t plan on selling him at the end of the loan, or they would have let Arsenal have their clause

Carl said...

the kids are getting games, that why they signing contracts, liking or disliking BR has nothing to do with it. BR's logic seems to be making signings that hardly get a chance, bench warmers etc, apart from Allen, none of his other signings have been used to justify their joining the club, I really don't understand any of the signings BR has made, each one appeared to have been signed because BR had faith in them, how does he show this faith,,by not giving them game time. How does this attitude and mentality of signing players look to other potential transfer targets, if I was open to transfer an BR approached me I'd have to have severe reservations about joining, he really seems like a rabbit in car headlights when it comes to his transfer dealings.

Aspyinthecamp said...

Sorry did that headline say LFC Star?????, when? If he isn't prepared to fight for a place and wants to leave then he isn't prepared to play for Liverpool, I'd sooner have 11 Jason McAteer's than 11 Michael Owen's, at least McAteer gave his all every ame even if he wasn't the best technical player we ever had, he always wanted to play for the club. Owen on the other hand was a money grabber who was mercenary enough to play for whoever would pay him. This idoit has never become a star at Liverpool, if he wants to go let him, too many players here who think the club owe them a living, train hard, play well and want to be here otherwise feel free to leave, No one persn is bigger than the club.

Adam Griffin said...

Could not disagree more. The idea that Rodger is pandering to senior or established players based on anything other than actual playing ability is just insane. He picks the players he thinks will perform the best, end of story. We know the man has confidence in his methods, he's even been criticised for it at times. What evidence is there that Rodgers is acting in any way except in what he thinks is in the best interests of the team? The fact that young players have consistently got a better run in the team under Rodgers totally destroys such an idea. Sterling is the perfect example of a player who initially Rodgers pegged as too young and needing to be carefully managed, but the player showed the goods and produced the performances to show his true form. The manager at no stage let his preference for established players or favourites over-ride the simple fact that players should and do get picked on form. 

The failure of Sahin to break into the team is unfortunate but I think you're consistently to quick to blame managers and not players. You took the same tact with Benitez, always putting him top of the list when it came to a player failure. Sure, the manager must take responsibility for the overall situation. If he sanctions a transfer and it doesn't work out then it's always down to the manager. However sometimes a player just doesn't perform or simply turns out to not have the right attributes. Mistake in the transfer? Yes. Poor player management? No reason to think so. Sahin hasn't worked out but it was a loan move, probably the least expensive transfer failure you could engineer. Transfers are always a risk but in this instance we seem to have minimised this risk and it's all going to work out quite well. 

Carl said...

sycophantic means to give praise in order to receive what you want in return. Why is sycophantic praise therefore a bad thing if it's aim is to say encourage someone to play better, or to tell someone they are a great player in the hope they will then want to be so and attempt to live up to your expectations, it's psychology Jamie.
 Maybe your choice of word is incorrect and you should have just used "overpraise" 

Carl said...

Wow from the above, it sounds like you think he may have been the wrong person to manage LFC after all, out of curiosity what has actually done better than say Benitez?

Carl said...

He's not the man for LFC then eh. lets be honest he is not used to dealing with players of the caliber of Gerrard, Carra et al, What other big name players has he managed, he is star struck and in awe of them. I like what BR is trying to achieve but think he is so out of his depth that he actually needs the senior players onside, I think he is fumbling his way through, like someone who knows the steps but can't do the dance. I think the gravity of the task in hand is too big for him.

islesfan74 said...

I agree with you in that getting games is a huge deal and certainly a major reason for them to stay. But I also believe that if they disliked him that much and if they could play out their contract and get similar money elsewhere, they would leave at first notice.  Perhaps it's a big "if" but the bottom line for players is their bottom line: how much money are they getting.

Sterling was a big deal because he's arguably our best young talent and he chose to stay.  He could have most likely gotten similar money from another big club but chose to stay.  Of course, he may not have gotten the playing time right away, which supports your argument.  All I'm saying is that if he didn't want to play for BR, he would have either gone elsewhere in January (when his value was high), or he would have not signed his contract.

In terms of Rodgers signings, correct me if I'm wrong but in the summer he signed: Allen, Borini, Assaidi, Yesil, and Sahin (on loan).

Look at one by one:

Allen - Played consistently at the beginning, mostly out of position because of the Lucas injury.  He's faded recently, but I attribute that to exhaustion because I do believe that he can be a good player for us in the right role.

Borini - Unimpressive but played regularly before getting hurt.

Assaidi - Doesn't play much.  It's a bit puzzling to me why he doesn't get more opportunities with the first team. Perhaps our expectations should be to consider him a prospect.

Yesil - Prospect. Wasn't really expecting him to be with the first team this year.

Sahin - Has not played much in two months.

So the two senior players on the team that he signed long term played consistently (too much even in the case of Allen).  The two youngsters haven't, except for some non-premiere league games.  And Sahin was brought in on loan and hasn't seen action in nearly two months, save for the one appearance in December when he was injured.

And now he's brought in Sturridge who figures to play regularly. 

From a senior player standpoint, he seems to be giving his signings an opportunity.

In terms of other transfer targets, I think it all comes down to money and to what football we can offer (Europa or Champions League). And as I've stated elsewhere, if a target is being offered a similar offer from us and from a Champions League team, odds are he is going to choose the Champions League team.  That does not have anything to do with BR. (For Now At Least).

Sugarray said...

Gerrard JEALOUS of Sahin??? C'mon, Gerrard has achieved almost everything in the game that most footballers can only dream of. If it is the other way round where Sahin is jealous of Gerrard, this story would sound more credible.

islesfan74 said...

That's true, but he was consistently being pulled from games.  Heck, Lucas missed 3 months with a torn thigh muscle, was pulled from one game, and within a few weeks he was playing a full 90. 

I don't know why but something was off with Sahin's playing time from the start.  

voiceofreason said...

You read my mind. Was just reading through and thinking that was an odd use of the word to use in the context of the debate.

islesfan74 said...

Valid points. 

I always found it strange that Rodgers wanted Borini first but only wanted to get Sturridge on loan.  Would have figured it wiser to get Sturridge in the fold first and then go after Borini.

Mfimfi said...

I was very excited when we signed NS. He was the closest thing to a replacement to Xabi Alonso. At BD his range of passing was very pleasing on the eye. Although i dont have an opinion on why he has not been sucessful at LFC. he was injured for a large part of last season.

on the point of BR signings i think all have been failures so far including JA. For me the major reason is the huge fees we are paying for potential. It reminds me of a billboard poster i saw with a piece of coal with the header 'potential' next to it was a diamond with the header 'delivered'. the problem we are having is that we are paying diamond prices for pieces of coal.

VermHat said...

I agree with this; if we are going to replace Gerrard as captain, we should do so only if there is an outstanding candidate. No-one like that exists in our side at the moment.

Reina's form has dropped and realistically, you want your captain to be a player who will always be in the side, which means we don't want to promote the idea that he is undroppable. It would perhaps breed further complacency (it could also galvanise him, but I don't see it).

Agger has only just started to put together a decent run of games and it is premature to consider him. Also, there are times this season when I don't think he has been up to the standards he has set for himself in his previous (albeit interrupted) seasons here.

I think Lucas would probably be the best choice of the current lot- guaranteed his place on the team sheet (provided he returns to pre-injury form) and a very good professional. He isn't really inspirational enough though- he doesn't have the dynamism to take a game by the scruff of the neck like Gerrard and he is similarly lacking vocally in the sense that he isn't very demonstrative.

Mfimfi said...

To say he cant tackle is completely untrue. At BD i've seen him make some amazing tackles. some of his slide tackles reminded me of jamie rednapp.

rubyrm said...

I think you are right with the attitude. After Sahin's comment that his preferred role was playing deeper openly, he could have had a falling out with BR. 
We have ample cover in MF. just let the guy go.

LFC said...

What the fuck is wrong with this website?
Gerrard is jealous, Gerrard should apologize to Sturridge, Gerrard is Childish
Brendan Rodgers is a liar

I feel like this is a Man United Website

Jaimie K said...

Sycophantic also means excessive flattery in order to gain favour, which is why I use the word. That is (IMO) Rodgers to a tee.

Jaimie K said...

No, that's not what I'm suggesting. BR is a comparatively inexperienced manager; he can improve over time.

Greg said...

This is a reminder to FSG not to trust managers with money i think it is time for Liverpool to allow Rodgers to ask for certain types and a committee to decide on the players.
Clearly Rodgers like Dalglish has no idea on how to spend a transfer budget and money is being wasted on over priced Brits when real value and talent is abroad.
Rodgers short sighted views are evident on his idea of making Liverpool a more local team.
I have supported Rodgers right the way through but am now sick to death of the rubbish being bought and its gotta stop.
I feel for Sahin and wish him only the best in his his endeavors and am disappointed his talent was wasted at Anfield.

XabiLfc said...

nothing much i can say as JK pointed out perfectly on sahin case..he's world class footballer but BR couldn't utilize this talent...Spot on Jamie! 

Mike Aitcheson said...

So- You're  unashamedly biased, don't claim to be balanced, yet at the same time claim to be detached, clinical, and able to read between the lines.

People who argue against you have yet again been labelled as 'xyz' in this case 'obligate' fans, unable to be similarly dispassionate, objective and able to read something different between the lines. What basis do you have for making this assertion directly to CN for instance? the fact that he disagrees with your opinion? IMO you have absolutely no basis upon which you can form that opinion execept of course, that it opposes your assesments.

Maybe you can explain what you based that labelling remark on?

RennyLFC said...

I think so as well. Sahin has been given ample chances to prove himself and I've seen a couple of games where he seemed totally out of this depth. A top-class player like him shouldn't be. I'd like to see him kept till the end of the season as we paid alot. Maybe his attitude during training isn't good enough to start games. However, I'd rather see him play over Hendo or Shelvey coz he's got quality. 

Mike Aitcheson said...

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1293390?cc=5739

There are also stories containing quotes stating the very opposite. The Quotes you mention are hardly  positive proof of anyhting more than an interest in the player oin general; nowhere do they say they are making any proactive move to ob tain him, in fact they state thatconditions would have to be favourable for that to happen.

Basing your opinions at least in part an autobiography by El Hadj Diouff- I've seen it all now.... He felt that he was amongst the best players in the world, do you believe that too?

BEAST said...

It's a shame you can't point to amazing tackles he's made in a LIVERPOOL shirt! SAHIN wants to play a deeper role but you've got to go back a few years to prove he can tackle.The YouTube compilations i've seen of him for BORUSSIA DORTMUND he slide tackles all over the place.
But i could make a video of the weakest EPL midfielder show every good challenge he makes in a season and he'll end up looking like a midfield general.Just because you can run it doesn't make you fast and examples of tackles doesn't mean you're good at making them!
JOSE MOURINHO lets REAL MADRID play more than he did at CHELSEA but he expects a certain level of defensive play even from his stars,which NURI SAHIN isn't capable of.Be honest,Would you back SAHIN in a challenge if the ball was loose?

Aussie Nige said...

I am a big fan of BR but you are spot on re: his inexperience as shown by going after the familiar faces. Should be a golden rule for any new coach as it shows how limited you are in your thinking and knowledge about the international game.

This article is a beat up though, makes me laugh how many people try to play budget manager. BR did a good job getting him in, promises or not (would you rather he played down opportunities for future signings, do you presume others do the same?) as he provided back-up for a team lacking in depth, and had he excelled could have helped us through what we knew would be a rough patch.

Bottom line is that forget the money his performances didn't warrant a place and it has become obvious our midfield is improving beyond what he can contribute so if we can move him on than we have done very well. Hats off to BR

Borini and Allen are good signings by the way, Sturridge is a belter, just the type of player for the system being put into place by BR, good times ahead.

Jason Carr said...

if and when,the longer it goes the less chance there is

Jason Carr said...

its not all about money i just think sg lack ambition huntalaar was a prime eg imo

Jason Carr said...

not fact yet but over the coming seasons one we will have to get used too under fsg imo

LFCsuperfan said...

Jaimie I think you are one of them folks who are against BR. All your statements seems to imply that. I taught SG always wanted to go forward so Sahin would have been the perfect guy to cover for SG so he does not have to play a deeper role. Where do you get your infos man??? "Zero Tolerance on cheating" Why don't you stop supporting LFC until BR and LS leave the club and then you can come and support. You probably think KD is coming back! USELESS!!!

Jason Carr said...

your wit is endless,you should be on the stage ,your wasted on here

Xxcell2010 said...

To think these multi-million pounds salaried footballers has no politics in the club is simply naive. So there is no surprise that newcomers like Sahin, non-Brit, a potential threat to SG, to be marginalized. He is definitely not the first and never ever be the last. As long they produce results on the pitch to justify their tens of thousands of pounds weekly wage, nobody cares ultimately. 

thaired669 said...

100% agree with Fairway 

Gareth Owen said...

I always saw Borini as a direct replacement for Kuyt, younger and on smaller wages. Give him time, I think you might see the same thing.

Gareth Owen said...

He does have very good hair. Him and Arteta playing together would have been a little bit of Vidal Sassoon heaven. 

Rich said...

I thought he was injured again? He was wearing a face mask the other week after surgury on his nose or something. Perhaps he is just lacking match fitness and BR is trying to cut the wage bill and a plater who is only on loan and is slightly injury prone is taking up too much budget? Just a thought

Gerry said...

Huntalaar is a bad example to be fair as he had no intention of leaving Schalke. He was using the other clubs interest to get himself a better deal. Why would he leave Schalke who are in the knockout stages to come to Anfield? Was never going to happen. The one they should have been going for was Llorente as Bilbao are also in the Europa League so it wouldn't have been a drop down for him and would have been more realistic in my opinion.

Pete said...

You are spot on. JK must be a psychologist. 

It's wrong to brand his viewers with those sorts of terms, especially those loyal to him and the site. It's as if it makes us inferior. 

Gerry said...

The problem is that this source is pretty unreliable from what I remember when I was living in Germany. The Bild and Spiegel are two of the worst papers in Germany and I don't think we should read too much into their stories. I am not saying everything they print is untrue but I don't believe them to be  a reliable source of information.

Kieren said...

He was on the bench for the last 2 games. He's fit to play, just not picked. I feel that is he is being wasted. I live in Munich and everyone here raves about the guy. Surely we can get some form out of the guy?

I honestly feel BR is playing the kids to use them to shield him from poor form and questions being asked about him.

This season will be a write off, i am coming to terms with that. Maybe a good cup run will keep me going, finishing top 8 is a must. It's next year when I will judge BR. I'm not saying I expect top 4, but we need to be pushing for it. He would have had a whole season to get the team he wants in, I believe there is money there if needed. The problem is now, we want to spend it on the right people but the right people don't want to come so rightly we are not spending it on lesser quality. I like Allen, Borini and DS, i believe all 3 will come good. Lets push on this year. Get a good position in the league and then i think FSG will loosen those purse strings.

pete said...

What huge loan fee?

Kieren said...

As long as SG stops taking long shots, he can play in the team. He is starting to get some form back and looks closer to his older self. Just can't shoot for shit anymore though.

I am sure it is simple. If Sahin was good enough he would be in the team, saying that, surely he must get in ahead of Hendo & Shelvey?

Andrew said...

Seems to me that Sahin was brought in at a time that Lucas was injured, Gerrards future looked unclear and Henderson was on the out. Rogers probably envisioned a Sahin-Gerrard-Allen combination in the short to mid term. The problem for Sahin was that Shelvey, Suso and Stirling stepped up to the plate earlier than expected (the latter two meaning less time for shelvey out wide). They, as Liverpool players, jumped the cue. Sahin got injured, which didnt help, and then Lucas returned. The formerly out of favor Henderson suddenly looked like a player (particularly in the middle) and as the club has invested more money into him than he gets preferential treatment. By this time Gerrard looked like a player again (particularly with Lucas back in the fold). Hence, Sahin became surplus to requirements.

rubyrm said...

Reading every single post here today makes me proud to be a Liverpool fan. The passion is second to none. I am in the midst of the most compassionate and dedicated fans. thanks for the read guys.

RedWill said...

What do you mean an error? Has something ever been less than your expectations? Sahin cant be doing well enough in training to justify a start which says alot about him as a player not the coach.

RedWill said...

As opposed to Hick and Gillett who almost took the club into administration.

Jamesjude said...

dude - U clearly have no idea about football at all

U should do a column on positive vrs negative emotions or Depression.

U are as blind as millions of others - if BR fails in his project it will be due to people like you - He is building from the middle out wards and around that is clear to see - has he even done 6 months yet???

Give the guy a chance

Sahin - lets be honest U know NOTHING about wat was promised - u are summising what you think was promised!  I think he could have been given more of a chance but WE dont know what goes on behind clsoed doors

FINALLY - u are a liverpool supporter??? Support your team mate dont judge your manager on what a German chairman thinks you IDIOT!!!

RedWill said...

Dont really mind if he stays or goes to be honest. Obviously is not as good as his hype would have you believe.

Jaimie K said...

I think it's obvious from everything I've written on this thread why I believe that. I don't have the time or the inclination to waste my time arguing about this. You make generalisations about my views on stuff, so there's no point. You don't get my POV, and that's fine. You support the club in your way, I'll do so in my way.

Jaimie K said...

Inferior? Nonsense. I don'tsuggest that or think that.I just havea different way of looking at things thanyou.Whycan'tyou dealwiththat? If there's any inferiority here(which is ridiculous), you are projecting it, not me.

Jaimie K said...

Inferior? Nonsense. I don'tsuggest that or think that.I just havea different way of looking at things thanyou.Whycan'tyou dealwiththat? If there's any inferiority here(which is ridiculous), you are projecting it, not me.

Jaimie K said...

In your opinion. Most speculativearticles in football don't contain proven facts, and that applies whether it's The Guardian or Sportsbild. You are not being fair at all, just twisting things to suit your argument.


For example, look at all the Thomas Ince stories at the moment. *every* news provider reports that LFC is close to signing him (including all the broadsheets). Where are the 'proven facts' for this story? Exactly, there are none.
Are you now going to argue that the BBC/Times/Independent are crap sources making stuff up?

Jaimie K said...

To be honest, I don't think I'm going to respond to your posts anymore. Your point about Diouf, for example. You continually twist my views, and I can't be bothered to endlessly justify myself/explain my POV to someone who clearly just doesn't get it.

K_govani said...

Perhaps Sahin should have knuckled down and got on with it rather than moaning like the diva he is.  Adios amigo!

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