SITE UPDATE: JK is away until 31 August. #Justice4MichaelBrown | #Justice4EricGarner

3/21/2012 02:55:00 pm

Should Kenny be *embarrassed* by this shocking celebration of mediocrity...?

A few weeks ago, Kenny Dalglish tried to pull the wool over fans' eyes by arguing that Stewart Downing - who has failed to score or create a single league goal all season - was a 'better player' than he thought he was going to be. I'm sure most objective fans shuddered at this misguided celebration of mediocrity, but privately prayed that it was just a tactical move to motivate an under-performing player. Based on his latest frightening comments, it's clear that Dalglish genuinely believed what he said about Downing, and that is seriously bad news for Liverpool.

I will inevitably get slated by the 'Dalglish is the Messiah' brigade for this article there has to be some attempt to look at things reasonably and objectively, and the truth is, Dalglish's comments about Liverpool's season are becoming increasingly worrying.

I totally understand the need to praise players for motivational purposes, but when that praise enters the realms of fantasy in a misguided attempt to justify obvious mediocrity, it becomes embarrassing. This happened yesterday, when Dalglish offered the following preposterous assessment of his summer signings:

"These players have done fantastically well and if anyone is going to come in they will have to be a hell of a player to do better than what this group has done. These boys are in pole position and they are sitting there comfortable; not one of them can be disappointed with what they have contributed this season"

If Roy Hodgson has said something like this about the likes of Poulsen and Konchesky there would've been 10,000 fans burning an effigy of him outside Anfield. Indeed, Liverpool's unfairly reviled former manager was personally attacked and hounded out of Liverpool for much less.

How Dalglish can say such things with straight face is amazing. This goes beyond mere motivational praise; in my view, it is a calculated attempt to fool fans.

These players have done 'fantastically well'?! It will take 'one hell of a player' to do better? Not one of them can be disappointed with their contribution?! Dalglish's view does not match reality in any way, shape or form, and he insults the intelligence of fans by trying to convince us that the players he's signed are apparently world-beaters. Let's look at the facts:

* Downing, Carroll, Henderson and Adam: Combined cost = 83m. Total league goals: 6
* Downing, Carroll and Henderson: Combined cost - 75m. Total league assists = 2
* League position: 7th (10 points behind 4th. 28 points off top spot)
* 3 wins in the last 12 league games.
* 19 points dropped at home in the league this season.
* 3 league games lost in a row for the first time in 10 years.
* Only 33 goals scored in 28 league games, one of the worst records in the league.
* An overall conversion rate of 8.8% (33 goals from 372 shots)
* A worse home record than the much-maligned Roy Hodgson
* Had to beat inferior opposition on penalties to win the Carling Cup (!)
* Money spent: 110m+. Improvement in the league? Zero.

Etc

Is this what passes for doing 'fantastically well' these days? Is this the level of contribution expected of Liverpool players these days? If so, then God help us.

The idea that it would take 'a hell of a player' to improve on this level of mediocrity is laughable. Furthermore, massaging egos and keeping players in their comfort zone like this is counter-productive; why should they sweat blood and tears to improve if the manager is telling them they're amazing?

The most disturbing thing to consider is the possibility that Dalglish actually believes what he's saying (!) Does he really believe that a group of players who can't outscore relegation fodder in the league are beyond reproach? If so, then surely serious questions need to be asked?

Liverpool fans are not stupid, and trying to fool the fanbase like this is a spectacular error of judgment. Yes, the blind-faith brigade will lap it up with a spoon and denigrate anyone who dares to question 'The King', but many fans, I'm sure, will be privately concerned at how Dalglish is increasingly trying paint a picture of a rosy reality that just doesn't exist.

Rafa Benitez made countless excuses for his under-performance in the league (mostly related to lack of money), but even he didn't have the brazen chutzpah to try and convince fans that his 2009-10 team - which finished 7th and failed to qualify for the Champions League - was 'fantastic'.

This season has been characterised by Dalglish's belligerent, pigheaded (and undeserved) public support for certain players, and this will ultimately (IMO) lead to his eventual downfall. And when that happens, he will only have himself to blame.

Before people twist my words: I am not calling for Dalglish to be sacked (!) As I've repeatedly stated, I grew up watching him play and then manage Liverpool, so I will always have a soft-spot for a true LFC legend.

I'm just calling for Dalglish to stop blithely celebrating mediocrity. Praise players, but don't grossly exaggerate to the extent that it becomes embarrassing.

Jaimie Kanwar


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138 Comments :

Ra said...

Downings performances have picked up in recent weeks, since roughly when KD made those 'even better than I thought' comments.

Jaimie K said...

How many league goals and assists has he managed since Dalglish made those comments?

Mali341 said...

I think he's cracking up....hallucination is kicking in.....by summer he will need a break from football......

Tornike Khomeriki said...

I just can't believe he said that. When he was first signed by the owners and said he was here 'just to help', I thought he had fair assessment of that emotional period and wasn't getting delusional looking at so many fans out of their minds with happiness (even before a ball was kicked in the season!). But now, looking at this quote from him.. it's just unbelievable. I have no idea how one man can be so out of touch with reality.

redredman said...

JK it is hard to disagree with the facts as you present them. However imo Liverpool FC have played some of the best football I have seen them play for many years. We have controlled and dominated games without getting the rewards of a victory. I would argue that what i have witnessed this season has been far from mediocrity however I would agree that we havent always produced goals to win the games

Britmickchap said...

Every single blog you post is Anti-Dalglish. You and your blogs are becoming rather tedious.

Houkura said...

Dude.you are obsessed. Get a grip.

Jevon Johnson said...

Is there any way to remove this site from the http://www.lfclive.net/ feed?

Eric19 said...

Jamie , Awful article as usual from a Guy pretending to be an LFC fan , Your articles about Benitez where exactly the same as the ones you currently write about Dalglish .As a Liverpool fan of 42 years , I think the club would be much better off without so called fans like you . You've most probably been to Anfield in your life

Houkura said...

Furthermore...if you took this tripe of yours to the actual Kop you would either get laughed out of your seat or worse...

Jaimie K said...

Then why are you wasting your time here?  There are plenty of other LFC sites out there, no?

Houkura said...

This is clearly a blog designed to make money. My only problem is you use the name of our beloved Kop to do it. I think it's time for a movement for you to change your money making website's name.

Jaimie K said...

I agree with you - the football at times has been good, but it's been overshadowed (IMO) by the way Dalglish has turned Liverpool into a universally disliked club.  It's not only the Suarez handling, but the constant rudeness and belligerence to the Press, for which he was forced to apologise at one point. 

Msc191170 said...

Agreed, this guy has posted nothing but bile and disdain towards Liverpool, it's time he was shut down.

Eric19 said...

true , every single one of them are better than this shite

Mslim3 said...

@redredman i agree with you there mate football has been excellent this season

Jaimie K said...

Then please go to one of those sites already!

Houkura said...

all of my comments are erased. Nothing less shocking than the tripe you write. Can't stand criticism? You sure dish it out.

Eric19 said...

Seriously Jaimie , Have you ever written a positive article about Benitez or Dalglish on this site ? yet you feel sorry for Roy Hodgson who , in my opinion , was a terrible appointment by Hicks & Gillette from the minute he walked in the door . I am a regular at Anfield and regardless of Liverpools league position , they are playing the best football the have played in 15-20 years. As i sai in a previous post which was deleted , LFC don't need fans like you ( If indeed , you are a fan )

redredman said...

KD hasnt turned Liverpool into a universally disliked club. He made a mistake admitted it and put it right with Jeff Shreeves over the handshake thing. Much of the other stuff with the media has been tongue in cheek and many supporters from other clubs have thought it amusing. In some ways with the advent of Sky etc dealing with the media has become more difficult even Mr Fergie has had his problems. The greater damage done globally to the club has been by Suarez (whether he is right or wrong) and I am not sure that anything less than him moving on will repair any damage that may have been done in other countries. Certainly it doesnt seem to have affected Standard Chartered Business judging by there latest results.

redtrev73 said...

You are well out of order. If you don't like Dalglish as a manager, try and articulate that without resorting to cheap disgustingly inappropriate digs.  

Any proper fan knows what led to Kenny being so stressed he needed a break in '91. The guy lead an entire community in the wake of Hillsborough and I, for one, appreciated that more than any of the 3 league titles or two FA cups he brought to Anfield as a manager first time around. Have a bit of respect.

OriginalChan said...

Our best football under KK in his second reign was in the second half of last season, comfortably. We were the best side in the league in that period, in terms of effectiveness and performances. This season doesn't even compare to the performances that we showed in the second half of last season. We have gone backwards.

lee said...

king kenny can say what the hell he likes

OriginalChan said...

Yep, bugger off to RAWK where it is possible to polish a turd.

Eric19 said...

wanker

Hughes said...

Jamie you are a cunt.

Fareezan07 said...

Are working on a movement to oust kenny? Seriously mate.... About hodgson, when he got sacked liverpool are near to bottom of the table thats why he got sacked.. clear thing..

RedWill said...

I get drawn here by using newsnow so the stories pop up on my feed. i do agree that most articles are overly negative. Somethings i agree with but alot of the time is seems like it is nitpicking for the sake of being negative. Im not sure i could be so negative about something i claim to love, it does seem a little strange.

Paris said...

You miss the main point.  In lavishing over-praise on players Dalglish is not principally trying to motivate them, he is principally defending his role in buying them.  

All the guff about the players now loving coming to training and the happy atmosphere since Dalglish arrived is also part of the self-delusion.   I'd prefer the players to be unhappy and bitchy if they would actually win at home consistently and get at least 4th in the League.

The players should be happy with the salaries and support they get and the facilities at their disposal, they don't need a Butlin's Holiday Camp director approach from Dalglish.

gabweb said...

Actually, i think a lot of the fans are that stupid and will believe whatever the messiah says, even once Swansea have overtaken us and we are languishing in mid table.

Paris said...

That's because he was managing a team of mainly Rafa bought and trained players.  This year he is managing a team heavily influenced by players he himself has bought and trained.

Jaimie K said...

I don't have a problem with Hodgson being sacked; I have a problem with the disgraceful way he was treated by Liverpool fans. Constantly ridiculed; personally and professionally denigrated from day one; never given any kind of chance, yet Dalglish - who has a worse record in some ways, and has made worse mistakes - is given a pass by the same fans. Utter hypocrisy.

And no, I am not working on a movement to oust Dalglish, I am just telling the truth as I see it.

Jaimie K said...

There's an option on newsnow to hide sites you don't like. Why don't you use it? It's simple:

* Click on the name of site next to the headline
* select 'hide publication'

Done. Problem solved!

Britmickchap said...

When i first found your site i found it interesting and had well constructed arguments for both sides of whatever particular argument was relevant at the time. However, Liverpool-Kop has just turned into a Dalglish bash-fest, epitomised with your recent article suggesting Liverpool had regressed under Dalgish which is a laughable statement at best. Criticism is one thing, but to do it in almost every blog despite the obvious positives comes across as just a personal dislike for the man.
Thanks for your advice, i will be visiting other sites which show more balanced arguments, thought and reasoning which this site used to once-upon-a-time.

Nunez said...

Jamie you are right mate Kd is not helping Lfc he has got outdated tactics

Paris said...

This talk of dominating games without victory or hitting the woodwork is very delusional.  It's like saying that I drove a terrific Formula 1 race but kept crashing at the last turn.   The whole point of the game is to win.  A team can "play well" and not win because it is not doing what is necessary to win and is able, therefor,e to preserve its energy or design its tactics on "playing well".   Hitting the woodwork so many times is not bad luck it is bad shooting, bad positioning, lack of calmness and many other things.  Not bad luck.

Jaimie K said...

Liverpool have regressed in the league under Dalglish.  I know the truth hurts, but facts are facts.  

Dalglish deserves criticism, whether you like it or not.  

I'm sorry this site doesn't validate your views and expectations about LFC; like most fans, deep down what you really want to read is stuff that backs up your own opinion.  Well, there are plenty of sites out there that will do that, so enjoy!

Jaimie K said...

NN has a feature where you can hide sites you don't like.  Why don't you use it?  I'll even give you the instructions:

a) Click on the site name next to the headline
b) Select 'hide publication'

Done.  All articles from that site are hidden :-)

Before you go: the problem here is that many fans have an extremely narrov view of what constitutes a 'fan', and whenever any diverges from that expectation, they're labelled 'negative'.

You and others need to broaden your horizons.  It's so incredibly simplistic to label this site 'negative'.  In the 1950s that might have been true, but in the modern world, things are very different.

The concept of football 'fandom' is complex, and there is (and should be) room for a multiplicity of different views.

This site offers one specific viewpoint; there are other sites that offer different viewpoints.  That's the way it is, and if you can't deal with it then, as I mentioned above, you clearly need to broaden your horizons.

j75j said...

Downing can be great but when HE wants to be!
May be he will wake up to the fact he has to be great all of the time at Anfield.

Britmickchap said...

Not at all, and i amazed you're able to judge that about me after just 3 posts. Jumping the gun a little too quick(again). Your original point was that Liverpool have regressed(overall) under Dalglish which i disagree wtih. Now you say Liverpool have regressed in the LEAGUE under Dalglish(inconsistant writing to boot). Im not blind, i know our league form is not up to scratch, but overall the standard of football has a hell of a lot better than Hodgsons. I believe we have a chance to win every game we play under Dalglish, I couldnt say the same about Hodgson. We already have a trophy and squad in transition which has already shown they can beat anyone. I believe the right time to start judging is next season and if things start going backwards, then i think its time to properly evaluate Dalglishs' position with a view to replacing him with Jaimie Kanwar.

Theycallmemrburt said...

I never once called for Hodgsons  head (his exit was inevitable) but I'm calling for Kenny's...why?  I call it the 'Carra syndrome'.  I along with with a small section of fans noticed that Carras legs had gone at the start of Rafas last season (pre season to be exact).  Now when we posted about this observation we were immediately shot down due to Carra's so called legendary status. 

"oh he's a legend, let him play for as long as he wants" were the cries of some deluded fans "HE DESERVES a title medal" cried others not realising that it was this very same 'legend' that must take a large portion of the blame on the pitch for costing us match after match by forcing us to defend deep to cover up for his lack of pace.  

THE PROBLEM?  The fans wouldn't allow Carra to be dropped.  The only reason Carra is out of the team now is because he got injured.  Kenny never had the balls to drop him out right and if Carra never got injured it is quite conceivable that we would be trophy less and languishing in 10th-11th place.

I feel the 'Carra Syndrome' is now hanging over us with Kenny.  Unless we start changing opinions NOW and unpluggin as many Liverpool fans from this Kenny Matrix as soon as possible things will go from bad to worse with every man and his dog being blamed for our failure apart from the large grey legendary Elephant sitting in the corner of the room spending our transfer funds.  It took us TWO YEARS, thats right TWO YEARS to drop a finished Jamie Carragher due to our fixation with his legendry staus.  I fear it will take double that time before the fans realise that Kenny is no longer good enough.

We are the resistance....................

Theycallmemrburt said...

On the left Downing is only as good as as apposing full back. On the right I'll go as far as to say he looks quality.

patrickferris said...

I'm 100% behind Jaimie on this one. How can Kenny say all the players have been brilliant this year? It's a complete lie. If they were that good Liverpool wouldn't have to face yet another year without champions league football. If Kenny had of signed a quality striker and wingers  things would've been so much different, because it's up front where the problems are. Carroll, Downing, Henderson, Kuyt, Adam, haven't been good enough it's as simple as that.

Jaimie K said...

With respect, the article to which you refer was about regression in the league:

http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2012/03/06-points-per-game-how-lfc-have.html

Hence the title: 0.6 points per game - How LFC have regressed under Dalglish.

Points are only awarded for league games.

Believing 'we can win every game under Dalglish' is a pipe dream at best. There's no real evidence to suggest that could happen. In fact, this season, Liverpool have lost/drawn more league games than have been won:

Played: 28
Drawn/Lost: 17
Won: 11

That's 60% of games that LFC has failed to win. That's the harsh reality, and that's why we're 7th.

rowan hartgroves said...

two words - mind games

Joseph Ahorro said...

I'm quite happy that Dalglish has been belligerent and rude to the English press.  The press tend to cite 'sources' or 'reports' (which often derive from other papers, strangely enough).  News outlets rarely see how complicit they are in whipping up non-stories and presume to be high and mighty, or 'neutral' in the way they present stories.  There simply aren't any ways to keep the press accountable, other than buy-cotting them, like we have with The Sun.

If people dislike the club because of the press, then these aren't supporters in the first place, or lack the critical lens to see past the myopic press.  Our manager shouldn't bend at the will of the Press just to make them happy.


I believe part of being a good manager, on top of tactics, squad selection, and motivation, is man-management.  Dalglish is great at that (Benitez, not so much - as Gerrard and Hamman have admitted), and part of that role is be protective of the squad from a fickle (at best) or vicious (at worst) press.

I don't know if it's the 'Liverpool Way' to allow the manager to be frank with the players in private, but it's important to show a united front to the public.  If it was a situation where the manager let the press have a field day on the squad, what kind of morale would that foster within the team?  I'm certain there are a lot of things that Dalglish lectures to the squad in private - information we are not privileged to hear - but in a day and age where press, supporters, and critics want to know everything at all times, this kind of 'in-camera' relationship between manager and squad is considered unsatisfactory to many.

For me, I'm fine with that, and hope Dalglish continues to tell a biased English press to F*** off!

Jack Kay said...

I think overall this is a very harsh assessment of Dalglish. I will confess the states do not read well at all. And i will not try to defend the results of this season as i agree based strictly on results this season has not gone well. But i will not agree with the idea we have been mediocre. Most games this season we have played better football then i have seen since the 2008/09 team which finished second. I also dont think your taking into account how difficult it is for a team with so many new characters to settle.  If you look at chance creation the states read a very different story when you consider we have had 28 more shots then manchester united and scored 38 less goals. Our main problem this year has been scoring goals and that comes down to players like andy carroll developing his game to the way we want him to play. also suarez as much as we love him needs to put more of his shots away and im sure given time to adapt to the premier league he will. and i know hes been here over a year but it often takes longer then that for players to adapt..look at christiano ronaldo. you began this article by mocking stewart downing for a lack of assists well considering the chance we create i dont think stewart is the one to blame. We are still a team in development its time we gave kenny our support and let him get on with his job of restoring us to where we belong.

j75j said...

He his definitely better on the right he seems to glide in has more pace about him and his left foot becomes more of a threat. He will be up against Traore,Tawio or Hill RB depending which wing, should get the better of Hill or Traore.
Tawio LB might be a problem for him so a left wing start might be a better place for Downing tonight against Hill looking at how they lined up last game.

Paris said...

I agree.   Kenny is part of the old boys Liverpool set - many of them live  in the Blundellsands-Southport area.  They all watch each other's backs.  It's a mutual admiration society.  They say they "deserve" this and deserve that - despite the fact that they are collectively responsible for underachievement.  They are "local" boys who have not lived in Liverpool for a decade - they live in a privileged middle class-rich world as far from Liverpool as they can get.  The foreign lads are more Liverpool than they are.  

We need a new broom - or an old Spanish broom - to sweep clean.

Bekim said...

MY GOD. If he really believes that no other player can improve us than we are in more and bigger trouble than I thought we are. This is just to much to take. I really hope he wasn't serious cos if he was than GOD HELP US. If he really believes that there are no better players than Caroll,Adam,Downing and Henderson than PLEASE,PLEASE GOD HELP US. Jamie I agree with everything you said mate. I never liked R Hodgson I wanted him sacked period. I know that u don't like Benitez that much mate but I genuinely believe that he was the best mngr we had for god knows how many years and I think with the backing of the new owners will b awesome. I really hope that KD moves upstairs himself at the end of the season and make way for RAFA BENITEZ.

Gothmog said...

Well ... although I've never seen Kenny play for Liverpool nor manage them I really like him, but this season his hasn't done himself any favours by buying midtable quality players, who will never ever be good enough to get Liverpool the title or his rotation of players every single game except for Henderson and Adam (up until the last two games), which can't be helpful to get a certain playing philosophy integrated, even if we don't seem to have one at all !!

The other thing is as Jamie stated, that we don't play players on merit, nobody really knows what he needs to do to get a game, except for the world class players in our team (Reina, Lucas, Gerrard, Suarez) or the Kenny favourites (Adam, Henderson, Downing) ....

Let's take a closer look;

Maxi performs and scores a goal, next game dropped and doesn't even get on the bench until the next cup game.

Carroll plays, although not performing well, but still scores a goal gets dropped for the next game.

Kuyt, well ... (we all know that he isn't the most gifted one technically, but this guy gives his all every game and is a poacher type forward, but gets deployed in a right wing position, which absolutely makes no sense, unless you plan to press and negate/destroy your opposition's game) he could have been the striker up front we so badly experienced to miss, but was he given a chance, hell no !! Instead Kenny tried to play Carroll with Suarez behind him, but without service for Carroll (the few games Downing spent on the bench) or Suarez alone up front (what will never ever work, because he isn't the type of strike for it).

I am quite certain, if we would play a front three of Kuyt/Bellamy, Suarez, Maxi/Bellamy with a midfield of Lucas/Spearing, Henderson/Spearing and Gerrard that we would hammer most of the lesser teams, home and away !!

We don't need Carroll and we don't need Downing either, we need "pass and move" players !!

Kenny needs to correct his mistakes this summer, if he doesn't, I really think that next season will be his last ....

Digitballard said...

Shut up Kanwar. Go and support ManU

Ekeko said...

A reasonable assessment and analysis of Kenny's bizarre comments. At times he has appeared to be living in some kind of parallel universe, in self-denial about the true facts and the reality of our poor league campaign. Without the cup runs, he would be really feeling the pressure, so let's all hope the squad gains some confidence from its success and progress in the Carling and FA Cups. 
Kenny also needs to loosen up in his dealings with the media. He's prickly and defensive again and again when he's asked perfectly reasonable questions. From the PR and media perspective, considerable damage has been done this season to what had previously been the club's good image. We need all the friends we can get in the media and Kenny has to improve his handling of reporters. It's not good for our club when he antagonises people who are simply doing their jobs.

Guest said...

Well Jaimie what can you expect from Liverpool at the moment?? Considering last season, what players better that Adam would have considered coming to Liverpool??? Success is built step by step, and we are at the very base at the moment. Look at this team, Carroll, Henderson, Kelly, Shelvey, Spearing are U-23 players! Everybody try to downgrade Spearing, but I was just enjoying seeing him play last season. He has it in him but due to lack of playing time, everytime it starts from zero for him. His passing was superb, defending was superb last season. And he's starting to come together for him this season. The only player that hasn't worked out well is Adam. Downing is starting to perform. And please don't just look at stats. Just go through all the matches once again and you will find that downing has played well, the assists were there but no one could take it. The problem at the moment is at the front. We lack finishing qualities and Carroll isn't experienced enough to get into scoring positions at right time. And Suarez well his conversion rate tells us everything. Henderson will come good in the future. He needs playing time to get confidence in this liverpool team.

Enrique, Adam, Henderson, Downing, Suarez, Carroll

Out of these I really think that Adam has not performed apart from some matches.

Red4life said...

I agree, screw the press. They had us by the nuts while H&G/Rafa were making us look like a circus. We were in the papers week in and week out.

Who cares if Kenny is rude to the press. Rather that instead of the press having a field day with our club. Kenny does not have to be their friends as they have no regard for our club and good on Kenny for standing his ground.

Frank said...

Can't agree with the authors views here at all. Anybody who cannot see the progress being made at the club is quite frankly deluded. No doubt the author will be extolling the virtues of KDs managerial savvy over the next 18 mths with apparent amnesia of his current position. Anyone associated with the club over the past 2 decades can see that it is both in the right hands and heading in the right direction. If anyone is looking for instant gratification well then I would suggest that they are on the wrong website. Every single successful side in football has been built with hard-work, belief and patience. Kenny is the right man to take the club forward and is a far shrewder than our esteemed author likes to believe he is. Why bother give out a 3 year contract to a man universally wanted by supporters only to terminate it after 1. It would set the club back another 3-5 years. Anybody who believes the club would be better off ripping up the plans started by KD, DC, & FSG seriously need to have their heads checked. I hope those who are on threads slating KD and the players have the humility to return when consistency in our results eventually arrives and offer their grovelling apologies as well as assurances to keep their destructive and ill-informed opinions to themselves rather than spread them like a cancer around internet forums.

Frank said...

As for your stats, all I can say is lies, damn lies and statistics. 

Rowanuk said...

Whoever said 'some of the best football for years' is clearly forgetting the demolition of Real, manure etc under Rafa. that was proper football, football that scared the life out of almost every european side.
Apart from last season, when the KD effect actually had some effect, ive seen nothing to excite me whatsoever, but then i knew that would be the case when KD bought henderson, downing, carroll and adam. they didnt inspire me then and they certainly don't now.
We won't win the FA cup , so thats 6th, the worthless mug and an FA semi or final. hardly anything worth shouting about, unless your someone like newcastle.

Adrian said...

don,t like being attackked yourself mr stalin

Morris Jeff said...

ha!! you guy on about all these narrow minded fans on here/the ones who don't agree with you!! i only been coming on hear for a short amount of time, and already, is all i hear, from you, is, everything is all doom and gloom!! we up the creek without a paddle!! it is soooo obvious, to anyone with limeted intelligence, that your wrinting,has so many agenda's to it!! it's like a school ground politics!! so childish!!

Adrian said...

wht do you not accept being criticised when you do it so often yourself is your site more important than lfc

Morris Jeff said...

are you his right hand man!

Morris Jeff said...

it';s bad luck!!

Alex_Star said...

Its a fair point actually. His performances have improved greatly. I'm certainly not a fan of his so I don't say that lightly.

Owencolley said...

On paper, this team is on a par talent wise with the 05 champions league winning team. Give kenny another window to add a bit more quality to the squad. Some of His buys have been dodgy and some have been very good. He has been out of the game for a whole too.....maybe he needed to shake off a little ring rust too.

Septimus_severus said...

Well observed and well put

Morris Jeff said...

by tomoro, i gonna need a break, from your inane comments!!

Britmickchap said...

The belief comes from the fact that we have already beaten the best the Prem has to offer this season and done it with relative ease so why not against the others?? Consistancy has been our major downfall which is why we are 7th.
Apologies for the misunderstanding regarding the views of regression, but just a point of note: the article states that although KD average pts total is slightly better than Hodgsons' the fact is it IS BETTER than Hodgsons'. Surely that would negate your argument regarding us regressing when clearly KD average pts is better than Hodgson which would indicate an improvement on last year. Add a trophy, an FA cup semi, European football next year, stronger overall squad and the fact that the overall standard of our football is a lot better than last season, then, rose-tinted glasses aside, that certainly looks like progression to me

Septimus_severus said...

There is no way Kenny will resign given the his previous stint.

Jaimie K said...

What are you on about? People criticise my views all the time - am I supposed to just agree with everyone for the sake of harmony? is that what everyone else does?! No - I argue my point like everyone else. Why must I be different? You have a very strange view of what discussion is all about.

Jaimie K said...

If you don't like it, leave. No one twists your arm to come here, do they?

Jaimie K said...

Like clockwork.

Jaimie K said...

You haven't explained how the club has progressed. Please list the ways in which Liverpool have progressed on the field under Dalglish, specifically, in the league.

Alex_Star said...

I don't think he said he wants to stop visiting the site, he even added he sometimes agrees with you. Telling him to go away is a bit harsh just for occasionally disagreeing.

I actually like your slant on the way you look at the club. Its different and I think its good to look at things from many angles. That's the best way of developing broader opinions. However, that often means that I end up reading a post and disagreeing wholeheartedly with your point of view. Does that mean I too should hide your site?

I think you have to admit that most of the posts are on the negative side, they are not wrong there. Telling them to sod off to some other site because they feel that way is only petulant of you.

Jaimie K said...

Who cares if he's rude to the press? Clearly, the club do, which is why he was forced to apologise for 'conduct unbecoming' a Liverpool manager recently. In the history of the Premier League, what other manager has had to apologise to the press for rudeness? That right there tells you how out of order Dalglish has been with the press this season.

Jaimie K said...

Great points. Totally agree.

Jaimie K said...

Alas, I must decline.

red til im ded said...

Going nowhere wi KD as manager get im out mate i say!

Jaimie K said...

Good points, Jack. Hopefully next season we'll see a barrage of goals from the likes of Carroll, Downing and Suarez.

Jaimie K said...

Alex - RedWill said he was 'drawn here' by NN, which implies he comes here unknowingly. In any event, when people start saying stuff like that it's clear they don't really like the site.

I disagree that most of my posts are negative; they appear that way because the overriding expectation is that fans should always be positive. Many fans can't accept that there needs to be discussion, analysis and a different point of view, and that causes the problem.

It's always been this way throughout history, no matter what it is. As an analogy, take religion: hundreds of years ago, alleged heretics would be burned at the stake for daring to criticise the Church. I'm sure you would agree that's ridiculous.

Fast-forward to the 21st century, and criticism of the Church is allowed and is accepted, without fear of a horrible death.

When it comes to football fandom, we are still in the dark ages. I am the modern version of a 'heretic' because I have the temerity to question things. it's ridiculous, but that's the way it is.

Philip Dean said...

more doom and gloom

MCM said...

Fergie didn't have to appologise yet for 5 years or so he refused to speak to the TV channel with the most viewrs. How is that not beligerant, rude or downright disrespectful. A few weeks ago you said Fergie would not be like that with teh Press. What about when he wanted one reporter banned for asking a Giggs question and was overheard telling his assistant to ban him. No apology...where is your point now?

Jaimie K said...

More honest and reality more like. It's okay though, I know that truth hurts.

OriginalChan said...

Nope, just someone who likes to see a site that is on the other end of spectrum, away from the likes of RAWK and Tomkins. If you don't like it, you can always bugger off.

Jaimie K said...

What does any of this have to do with Dalglish's rudeness to the press? Refusing to speak to a TV Channel is fair enough; Liverpool recently banned The Mirror from LFC press conferences - I have no problem with that.

Jobsaplenty said...

KK is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Rafa was maligned by all and sundry for his lack of man management skills and KK is maligned for being too much of a man manager. KK's beligerence to the press is par for the course. Would you rather he depose himself the way AVB had done most of the season. Personally I love his style. He is cagey and he has every right to distrust the media. He keeps his press meets on his course and he is doing the right thing. About liverpool being universally disliked. Fook it. who cares. I certainly dont shed one tear about KK being mocked by Fleet street. Fleet street are to my mind one dodgy bunch. I didnt like them all that much when they bigged up Roy Hodge all that much either. 

Morris Jeff said...

i dont get this site?? you say thre other end of the spectrum!! what you really mean, is anti LFC, anti Kenny?? that makes you a negative fan, and for me, they even worse than a man u fan!!

MCM said...

Well said MJ.

Philip Dean said...

If KK does go, cant wait to see who the next manager will be. I think some fans who are praying for guardiola may just end up with mick mcCarthy!!! The last time we put it out their for the prestigious liverpool hot seat we got the likes of ?? oh yes hodgson was the only person. If KK wins 2 cups and still gets the sack, top managers will avoid it like the plauge as they will be thinknig to themselves, if i dont do better then i am for the chop! Liverpool have not got billions so any new manager will be set the target of winning the league knowing, Man city, man utd, tottenham, chelsea and arsenal all have bigger and better transfer budgets.

Mali341 said...

Well said

Bekim said...

Spot on mate.

Bekim said...

He's a LEGEND and I love him as much as everybody else. I would hate it if he got the sack. So I think the best thing for him is to move upstairs and still b involved at the club.

FdotM said...

Jamie this is the reason why I come to your site, because you present facts unbiased. You would not believe the amount of insults I get at LFConline for purely stating fact. Thinking actually of leaving that forum.

Many Liverpools fans are blinded by KD because he was such a great player and manager, and therefore have a soft spot for him. Which can be understandable to a degree. 

But surely common sense and pure facts should come first. The things KD has come out and say to the media has left me puzzled.

Those comments that you quoted in your article gave me diarreah because I didn't realise he had said that. Complete and utter rubbish!

Our players have not done "fantastically well"! "None of them can be dissapointed"? Give me a break!

You don't see someone like Roberto Martinez whose team is way down there, make excuses about his teams performance.

Don't get me wrong, I was happy that KD got the job to begin with because I thought it was until the end of the season, and when I saw that results starting to get better I knew he was going to get a deal.

KD has spent over £100 Million on average players and has set Liverpool's aspirations to a mid table team. Consistently dropping Bellamy and playing Henderson has puzzled me.

He handled the Suarez situatioj completly wrong and has been rude on a few occasions to the media when the questions asked where not favourable.

A few years back when United won the Carling Cup, many liverpools fans were screaming " Mickey Mouse" Cup and that it was worthless. Now that we have won it it seems many fans are using that as a cover over for this years poor current league standing.

Let's be realistic, Liverpool have played well at times but have been poor in front of goal. KD does himself no favours by playing up the great achievement of the Carling Cup and then even having the nerve to mention Kit Deals, as if he was the one that brokered it.

I hope Henry & Warner have realised that KD cannot be trusted with money. Carroll? Waste of money, we signed him based on half a seasons performance. Henderson is another one. However I hope they come good.

Overall I feel that, KD has made some pathetic excuses for our performances. He might have just bought himself a couple of years stay because of the cup and potential FA CUP final. I fear that after his (or DC) comments regarding not being a need for many players signed next season that KD will once again waste ungodly money on average players.

Knowing Liverpool, we will probably lose at QPR tonight and KD will make an excuse that we player on sat so players were tired.

Hate to be so negative but that's how I feel.

I hope we go on unbeaten run till the end of the season.

Jaimie K said...

Great points. Believe me, I feel your pain. Most LFC forums are like that unfortunately: stick to the status quo or they burn you at the stake. It's pathetic, and it's a sad indictment of the people who run those sites. They should foster open debate amongst fans, and create an environment where any LFC-related view is acceptable. Instead, they create a hostile atmosphere where anyone with an opinion that isn't pro-Liverpool is immediately pounced upon.

It's also that way on the Official LFC site forum; the people who run that forum are a joke, and they actively encourage insults towards fans deemed to be negative. The fact that the site is affiliated with the club is lost on them, and in my view, it reflects badly on the club. It's no surprise though - the belligerent, combative victim culture instilled by Dalglish pervades all areas of the club, including its official forums.

All views espoused in a civil manner are welcome here.

Tommy Tiernan said...

There is being objective and there is using statistics to push an agenda and not seeing the bigger picture.  And to accuse Dalglish of trying to pull the wool over fans eyes is nothing short of a disgrace and slanderous.  It suggests you know nothing of how Dalglish works - he might tell the press one thing and he will defend players to the hilt.  Everything else is done behind closed doors - the Liverpool way.

KD does not sign the players.  Comolli does the groundwork, sorts the deals out and runs everything by KD, so how can KD be accused of wasting money (poster directly above!).

Rome was not built in a day.  Hodgson had us in the relegation zone.  KD came in and reinvigorated us.  Changed half the team which is going to take some time and a further investment.

Ask yourself, Man City spent far more than us - did they click as a team straight away.  What have they won so far?

Do people know Bob paisley finished 5th in 1981?  How long did Shanks take to win a first division title?

How long since Arsenal won anything?  How long did it take Fergie to win anything?  Anyone who knows anything about LFC knows that they have a history of winning the league cup that spurred them onto better things.

So little patience these days in football and now the author is accusing anyone who wants to give KD time a member of a cult.  Both offensive and stinks of delusions of grandeur.

Building a team takes time!

Ynwa Stryder said...

Jaimie K, finally you made sense, with logic. Can you imagine if that 110m just bought one good striker, I'm sure he would have got more than just 6 goals. 

Jobsaplenty said...

Hail hail Tommy Tiernan.

OriginalChan said...

'bad luck' is a excuse used by those with a weak mentality

You make your own luck. Our so-called 'bad luck' in front of goal is simply down to rubbish finishing and lack of goalscoring positions

redredman said...

mali you havent responded to my previous questions

redredman said...

JK I am sorry to contradict you but KD was not forced to apologise he did so because he knew what happened was wrong.

redredman said...

the question was about mediocrity which Liverpool have certainly not been this season please read and understand the posts and responses Paris

redredman said...

regressed compared to hodgson or rafas last season ? JK wehave not regressed in the league under kd

Madness said...

i too am under that impression that age is creeping into his judgement, there is no other explanation for what he comes out with.

Madness said...

agreed , fluidity throughout the team and better football than what some fans are so "proud" of now. But this is what happens when you replace players like meireles with henderson

Madness said...

second that, jaimie keep up the good work! glad some fans still abide by the principles the club was built on.

Madness said...

pop quiz : what was the last lfc team to have scored so few goals as this side currently have???

Madness said...

that seems to be the case at present, the victim complex that dalglish has created in his words/ actions in the press, the constant belief that we are unlucky when we dont win,  and the mentality that we are somehow succesful this season has been adopted by a lot of fans. I loved Kenny as a player but cannot believe some of the rubbish that comes out of his mouth now, i did not expect him to be a great manager for us in this 2nd era because I dont believe he has the talent to do that in the modern era, but i didnt expect him to act so deluded for most of the footballing world to laugh at.

Madness said...

great read

redredman said...

why are you mad

Morris Jeff said...

i can!! we now have a squad of players, as opposed to a first eleven, we had for a long time!! we are playing some very positive, attractive footy, one touch stuff, as opposed to the negative, boring football of yesteryear!!  we not called a two man team anymore!! we have just won silverwhere!! progress!! progress!! progress ma boy!!

Morris Jeff said...

shame we lost boys!! good effort tho!! it weren't for a lack of trying!! even tho we lost, i was mezmarised at times, by some of the one touch football!! the link up play between stevie and suarez was outstanding!! and will only get better!! i think the football kenny got us playing, at the mo, is a million miles more exciting stuff, than from a few seasons ago!! i know we not win, but i can see it all starting to come together on the pitch!! it wont be too long before we bk where we belong!! as for all you negative nancy's!! i actually think that some of you, will be loving the fact that we lost!! just so you can jump all over kenny, the team!! you know, the one that you suppose to support!!

gabweb said...

Well done, you watched that nonsense and you still have the nerve to call people negative nancys and accuse them of being glad that we lost?

Back where we belong? On the evidence of the last 15 minutes we are exactly where we deserve to be, maybe higher than we deserve to be. And how are you so sure that it, losing 3-2 to QPR, will only get better? Any evidence to support that theory or is it just a hunch? Because the facts are that we lost again and are not likely to finish above 7th this season. Of course, Newcastle are having an incredible season, aren't they?

It's exciting stuff alright, but when you are 2-0 up you actually want the game to be a bit boring from there on in.

gabweb said...

And what makes you think that Newcastle and Swansea and West Brom and Sunderland and Norwich and Arsenal and Chelsea and Tottenham and Fulham are not trying to build teams as well? Some are still ahead of us and some are building faster than us. If we continue at our current rate of 'progress' who is to say that some of those teams will not overtake us? What do you think these clubs are doing while we are team building? Playing dominoes? Some of those teams on that list should be nowhere near us, to be honest, team building or not. But they are closing fast and there is little to suggest, just because we took the cups more seriously than they did, that they don't deserve to be as close to us as they are.

What happens when Swansea and Norwich, for example, decide to consolidate and start spending more of the riches they will receive for staying in the Premier League? What happens when the 20 million or so they spent looks better than the 60 million that we spend, same as Newcastle have managed this season?

You only have to look at clubs like Villa to see what happens when you get the wrong guy in charge and the club starts to rest on its laurels and become complacent. Or even, in the recent past, clubs like Newcastle. If we continue to buy poorly, have no decent tactic and poor team selection, we will be heading down, not up.

gabweb said...

But, tonight, at Loftus Road, we found where blaming everyone but yourself and not accepting frailties gets you.

Football has changed in this country and nothing that Kenny has done since the major changes, such as more players from all over the world playing here, suggests that he is up to the job of leading a top Premier League club anymore. He looks more like a championship manager every day.

gabweb said...

Yes, 100% correct, and when Gerrard goes that way we will see more of the same.

MCM said...

Absolutely...Gutted at last nights result. Unfortunately it happens...usually when you just don't need it. But I've read one comment that said..'based on teh last 15 mins last night'....Why? Why if you are going to take a section of the match not take the large section where we dominated? 3 goals in 14 mins is just a freak...they happenn (ask the people who have had 6 past them this year).
I need to get away from this site. How the F!"k can you all (by that I mean the Negsters) live like this. Life must be miserable. Come on you Red Men.

gabweb said...

How about the evidence of the entire 90 minutes and the scoreline?

MCM said...

My point was that some choose to look at one small section of one match to amke a point. I just suggested that if they wish to do such a thing, why not look at teh larger section where we were on top.
Personnally one 90mins and scoreline whether last nights loss or victory against Everton or Stoke in the last 2 games makes not a jot of difference. I believe we are building somethign that will take time to come to fruition. I'd like that to bee sooner than later but I am happy to support trhe club in the project they have embarked on.
And I am going to have as much enjoyment out of it as possible. But then I'm a Supporter, not a Detractor.
I can just imagine some of you lot at half time in May 2005...don't you ever learn.

Morris Jeff said...

you say on the evidence of the last 15 mins!! you can't do that, you have to look at the whole match!! like MCM just said!! i know ther was a few poor indevidual errors towards the end of the game, but they can easily be adrressed!! did you not see the immense link up play between gerrard and suarez?? are you blind to that, ?? did you not see the goal of the season?? did you not see the really good pass and move play between downing, stavie, kuyt and luis?? i already know what your going to say, before you even say it!! but we lost!! that's what matters!! what matters is that people who know what football is about, can see the big picture... you my friend... can not!!

Joeavella said...

For once I agree 100% with what Jamiar. However, he should have also mentioned that Reina deserves a time on the bench...he has not made one decent save this season.

Hamilludin Md Darus said...

since the situation on the league is in jeopardy i'd like to see KD focus on the FA cup, so expose the bench warmer players in the league. anyway i do still believe in KD 

OriginalChan said...

The game is about 90+ minutes. At a top club, you don't go all apologist and say 'b-b-b-but we played really well for 75 minutes', if you end up losing after being 2-0 up. The last 15 minutes weren't just about 'silly mistakes'. The last 15 minutes the midfield did nothing, absolutely nothing to retain the ball, to ease the pressure on defence and didn't get in the faces of QPR midfield. That wasn't silly individual error, that was weak pathetic mentality in the last 15 minutes. It was like the Bolton game all over again in that 15 minutes against QPR from the midfield. A top club should be able to see out a 2-0 lead. Chelsea got labelled as being absolute utter rubbish compared to Jose's era after letting slip a 3-0 lead and we are just as bad, if not worse, after letting slip a 2-0 lead against a mere QPR side.

The bigger picture is 90+minutes. So for you to laud the first 75 minutes and simply brush away the last 15 minutes as merely a blip down to silly errors is clearly not looking at the bigger picture and is simply laughable for you to lecture others about bigger picture, especially when we lost after being 2-0 up. 

No, simply looking at a 'apologist's picture' is what you are doing.

OriginalChan said...

Rose-tinted waffle. There was plenty of 'lack of trying' in the last 15 minute from the midfield and defence. 

OriginalChan said...

7th place is no freak event

OriginalChan said...

Yep, we have a squad of players but certainly not a good one. Not a two-man team anymore? We still rely on Gerrard and now Suarez too.

MCM said...

Try reading the comments first OC...We were commenting on the Negs aiming attention at 15 mins....Not saying 75 Mins were OK so that's alright jack. Simply asking why if you NEGS want to focus on a part of the match, why should it be that part?
You realy are a little boy lost arn't you!
I was wondering, whcih team do you realy support....NEGS are LFC Detractors not supporters

h8utd said...

just a few points, progress has been made, lets abandon the 'must sign overpriced,overrated british players', forget the lone striker and play two up front (qpr are at the bottom for a reason!!) sign jan molby to show charlie adam how to pass to his own players rather than the opposition. hire a private detective to find the 'fabulous left foot' that allegedly belongs to charlie adam. sell charlie adam at a usual loss, and prove that he is and always will be a 500k player. sign a quality centre half, i love carra,but fear his best has gone. play our strongest 11 as often as possible, if others can't get in, it means the first 11 are performing to the required standards. king kenny has steadied a wobbly ship and won a cup.....that is progress. yes things must be altered,and they will..........hopefully.........ie, tell charlie adam we have moved!!!!!!

Dubplates said...

BRING BACK RAFA!

OriginalChan said...

Oh no, I'm a little boy because I dare to look at the 15 minutes which cost the game(!) Some people really show their age/mentality when they resort to such stupid and dumb jibes.

Matt said...

well your talking about being rude. refusing a station and banning reporters and being a rod to a reporter because she is dalglish's daughter is all pretty rude.
and for you to the question what it has to do with the topic is a bit strange because i read one of your posts the other days where souness said balotelli is a liability and you used that to bring up suarez and carroll and batter them. so what did they have to do with souness?

Justinhickley said...

Kenny needs to stop praising players 4 bad performances and start judging them by hw bad their performances has been this season especially in the league. And pepe reina's performances should awso really be looked at, eventhough the defece crumbles in a game he must stil try to do his best in trying to keep the ball out the net,rather than blaming the defence. YNWA!!!

MCM said...

No OC, you are a little boy because you spit your dummy out and stamp up and down shouting 'give it to me now, now, NOW!'
We all look at the last 15 mins, just not in isolation. Some of us (majority) are able to look at the bigger picture and therefore beyond just individual games and even seasons.
Thankyou for your compliment about my Age and maturity though...If you listen to me perhaps one day you may drag yourself to such lofty heights...Shame.

Jay said...

As far as I'm concerned, Dalglish should advise the owners behind closed doors to restart their search for a new manager for next season asap, and step down as soon as the FA Cup campaign is over, win or lose.

He can say he's done his best, turned the negative tides, brought 'success' back to the club and leave with his head held high, if that's what he wants. Just do the honourable thing and step aside.

Jay said...

It's just silly that argue that LFC are not a disliked club now.

You could ask fans of any other club which two or three clubs they most dislike in the Premiership, and I'm sure you will hear Liverpool's name coming up over and over again. Shite, even I don't like Liverpool much atm, and I'm a fan!

And this is a club that was the neutral's choice only a few short years ago... :-(

MCM said...

What planet are you on?

Unfortunately he can claim to have turned Negative tides, but not all the remaining Negative ripples from the NEGSTERS like you.

Braben said...

kenny said he will know if he is not cutting the mustard and wont need to be told to stand down as he will have already made that desision,.......well kenny ?.

Sihogan said...

Kenny said after the Wigan game that he made a mistake bringing Sterling on as it wasn't fair to ask someone so young to try and change the game.. I disagree.. How worse could Sterling and other reserve:young players be than the rubbish Henderson Downing and Adam are producing

Kabskay63 said...

This is for digitballard, i think the that Kanwar has the right to his opinion all Liverpool fans do have that right. He made some very good points. Kenny is not helping out the cause. He should do the honourable thing and resign.

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