1/14/2012 01:56:00 pm

FULL TIME: LFC 0-0 Stoke: £75m of attacking 'talent' fails AGAIN...

Liverpool failed to win at home today for the seventh time this season, but it was obvious as soon as the line-up was released that this game was going to end in a draw.

I thought the shambolic second half tactics against Man City in the Carling Cup would be a one-off but Kenny carried that negativity into this game too.

Liverpool were basically set-up to stop Stoke; why else would you start the game with a back five, anchored by three central defenders.

A back five and one upfront at HOME, against Stoke City? It's depressing.

At one stage, Liverpool had over £80m worth of attacking 'talent' on the field and still struggled to create any genuine clear-cut chances.

As usual, Downing, Carroll and Henderson were ineffective from an attacking point of view, and when Liverpool fail to finish in the top four this season, splurging £75m on those three will seen as the biggest waste of money by a Liverpool manager in years, if not decades.

I appreciate that Henderson has talent, but what's the point if it never comes into play positively for Liverpool? He has played in all 7 of Liverpool's home draws, and you'd think that he might be able to make the difference in just ONE of those games.

The same goes for Downing and Carroll. Perhaps I'm asking for too much; perhaps it's unreasonable to expect those three to actually make a telling impact on a home game...?

A few quick points:

* Crosses and corners were atrocious all afternoon. Again, is it too much to ask that the likes of Enrique, Downing et all actually *think* about where they're going to place the ball before hoofing it in?

* Kuyt played upfront but he spent too much time *outside* the penalty box. It's positional indiscipline that someone of his experience should've grown out of by now.

* Why take Downing off then bring on Carroll? Downing was (presumably) bought to provide service for Carroll. It makes no sense to me.

* Is it possible for Carroll to stay on his feet for more than two minutes at a time? Given his size, the amount of time he spends on the deck is embarrassing. Whether it's going in for headers, tackles, jostling for position in the box, or receiving simple passes, he must have been on the ground at least 10 times in his brief spell on the field today.

Fourteen points dropped at home and it's only January. To add insult to injury, if Newcastle win tomorrow against QPR, they'll go back above Liverpool in the table.

NB: Any posts featuring personal abuse of the players or Dalglish will be deleted.

Jaimie Kanwar




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139 Comments :

C M said...

playing 3 centre halfs? Carra is too slow to be a holding midfielder in the modern game.

Mali341 said...

What the hell is going on???

Is carra gonna be holding mf and Adam gonna be second striker

The Cush said...

Bizarre. How does he think Stoke are going to set up? Like Barcelona? Can't see goals in our team might run down the bookies for a 0-0. Maxi not even on the bench???

Kerim said said...

is this joke or what!!!

Handytomtom said...

And Coates is too raw and suspect to play as one of 2 centre-halves in a game against Stoke, the rugby players of the league

Jaimie K said...

I thought the tactical mess during the second half of the city game was a one-off, but it looks like it's continued into this game.

C M said...

The more I look at that side, I like it, with Johnson and Enrique playing practically as wingers, may well be a lot less defensive than it first looks.

I will wait till 4.50 before criticising it :)

Sameerbharwani said...

Daglish is a joke

j75j said...

We played 3 at the back last season against Stoke Agger,
Kyrgiakos and 
Skrtel with Johnson and Kelly down the flanks and Aurelio played as well and we won 2 nil so we will have to wait and see.  

Jevon said...

youre a F joke

Ilam048 said...

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/02/03/liverpool-2-0-stoke-tactics/

Refer to the link to understand why this line up. . . :)

j75j said...

We played 3 at the back also against Chelsea last season and we won, fans need to have a think before making a comment.

Tariq_bahadur said...

WTF! We are playing at home against Stoke! Not in the Nou Camp against Messi and co.

Why is Maxi not even in the squad?

Dear oh dear Downing starts again!

j75j said...

He played against Stoke in the Carling Cup! Will most probably be given the job of marking Crouch who the last time I remember was still a bean pole and not much of a rugby player!

Alex said...

Not so sure what our actual shape will look like. It may/will most probably change with the game, and depending on who scores first.  King Kenny has emloyed similar tactics previuosly, the most notable example being the away game against Chelsea last season with 3 central defenders, then Lucas playing the holding midfileder of diamond 4 (incl. also Maxi, Stevie, Meireles), Johnson/Kelly as wing-backs and Kuyt upfront.  It worked back then.

Barcelona are often eploying a 3 man defence system, a diamond of 4 in midfield, and 3 properly attacking players (two wide + one false 9).  Theirs is the attacking version, ours the more defensive one.  Mind, given the quality Barca has all over the pitch, it comes as a little surprise that they can afford to play such an open and attacking system.  Actually, they defend by keeping the ball and attacking, while we (and in all fairness no other team in football history) have never been close to their perfection in this respect.

On the other hand, most of us believe that Johnson is more of a wing than right back (well, in more than one way similar to Alves) and we will also agree that Enrique has more successful dribbles than Downing and Henderson combined.  So it culd be argued that with the proper instructions, both of the could be more wings than backs :)  I do not see a particular problem with our system, I am a bit more concerned with the lack of creativity/Barcelonesque technical quality in the likes of Downing, Henderson, Kuyt, even Adam.  That said, and given that we have what we have, I am curious to see whether the system will work.  At the end of the day it is Stoke we are talking about :)

YNWA

Alex said...

 
Not so sure what our actual shape will look like. It may/will most probably change with the game, and depending on who scores first. King Kenny has emloyed similar tactics previuosly, the most notable example being the away game against Chelsea last season with 3 central defenders, then Lucas playing the holding midfileder of diamond 4 (incl. also Maxi, Stevie, Meireles), Johnson/Kelly as wing-backs and Kuyt upfront. It worked back then.

Barcelona are often eploying a 3 man defence system, a diamond of 4 in midfield, and 3 properly attacking players (two wide + one false 9). Theirs is the attacking version, ours the more defensive one. Mind, given the quality Barca has all over the pitch, it comes as a little surprise that they can afford to play such an open and attacking system. Actually, they defend by keeping the ball and attacking, while we (and in all fairness no other team in football history) have never been close to their perfection in this respect.

On the other hand, most of us believe that Johnson is more of a wing than right back (well, in more than one way similar to Alves) and we will also agree that Enrique has more successful dribbles than Downing and Henderson combined. So it culd be argued that with the proper instructions, both of the could be more wings than backs :) I do not see a particular problem with our system, I am a bit more concerned with the lack of creativity/Barcelonesque technical quality in the likes of Downing, Henderson, Kuyt, even Adam. That said, and given that we have what we have, I am curious to see whether the system will work. At the end of the day it is Stoke we are talking about :)

YNWA

Scw1604 said...

Strange lineup but like some pointed out, critised till after the game...

RedRedMan said...

maybe it would be best to sack Kenny Dalglish and appoint somebody obviously far more knowlegable regarding the Liverpool Squad and football in general .................Any suggestions Jaime Kanwar

historic archives said...

its 0-0 half time.
kuyt is coming out wide , as a result no one is anywher near the stoke penalty area!

johnson is making runs into the box etc..
however
its not working so far

its a very strange setup

scw1604 said...

Ok, not gg to wait till FT, KD needs to change stuff in the 2nd half...

casper ruby ruby said...

i cant believe my eyes this is so bizarre......its definitely going to  end up in a draw if things dont change in the 2nd half

Ro said...

Bellamy needs to be playing...come on kenny how the hell are we going to score when we have kuyt and downing playing....time and time and time and time and again!! Its getting F****** boring now.  Downing off again, where are those fans who still think he is world class..hahaha.  

FRANK said...

KD start playing Aurelio and Maxi and drop those english and scottish tw@ts. Honestly Henderson, Carroll, Shelvey, Spearing, Downing and Carragher are all not good enough to play in this team. We need some strong african and south american players(look at citys team). Get rid of these overpaid pansies please. Only Johnson, Gerrard and Adam are good British players - the rest are overpaid middle of the table players. FFS.... KD

casper ruby ruby said...

whats going to be the excuse now if we dont win again at home..the stoke keeper has had nothing to do alnite disgusting tactics awwwwwww kuyt just missed a sitter.....................??????????????

Bernie said...

who's the scottish twat you're referring to?
can't be adam because you say he's a good british player.
you really know your stuff.

Dave said...

oMg, Skrtel and JOHnson are playing in the midfield. KD your tactics are shite. Honestly U should have left Carra on the bench

scw1604 said...

Horrible display...how to get into UCL next season???

casper ruby ruby said...

were playing like a mid table team definitely not finishing in top 4

RedRedMan said...

how come you deleted my comment JK

Beaumoricien said...

dalglish out

RedRedMan said...

you criticise weeek in and wqeek out so you must be able to do better

Beaumoricien said...

come and get frank rikaard pliz and buy some proven players

RedRedMan said...

if you criticise tou must expect to get some back.

Pastor of Muppets said...

Luis was missed. The boys played well, but Stoke was resolute.
 

JustSaying said...

KD is unpredictable but the result is predictable.

Frank said...

@Bernie - its you who knows your stuff. Shelvey is qualified as a Scot and could play for them and he amongst those other tits need to be sold to West Brom or Villa. What a bunch of losers. KD, Please look at man city, spurs, manure, chelski's teams and count the african(from africa) and s.americans and european(of african descent only). Get rid of this whitewash bunch of british pansies please. what a waste of money. @Bernie - u cannot lie with this team - it sucks. end of

Extrainfo said...

LFC-Kop-Chat website has all the extra info about this

Ro said...

Cannot wait for a journalist to ask kenny if he still thinks we have a good enough squad to get top 4, kuyt upfront a joke, downing ineffective both winger, more like a chicken wing, ineffective AGAIN!!, why oh why oh why oh why does he not play bellamy more, he's one of our most dangerous players going forward...I'm really scratching my head here!!! One positive...nice to see Raheem Sterling around the 1st team. 

j75j said...

You need midfield players who are prepared to get into the box Shelvey would have been great in that formation,Henderson still isn't showing the bottle!Kuyt needs to stop running to the wing and stay up front  Downing,Johnson and Enrique were there to many times no one in the box. At least Coates had a good game the defence must be the coolest in the Premier League.

KDinsider said...

You want to know the real reason for the line-up? Go here:
bit.ly/xXmOEA

Bitly said...

Extra info here:
bit.ly(slash)xXmOEA

Ro said...

Cannot believe some people on here who still think we played well....I'm truly lost for words now!!!  

dixie222 said...

poor finishing again, lots of possesion but no end result. carroll needs offloading, he has no talent for scoring goals. we need a striker now and one with pace!

Simon said...

We need a real sharp striker with good movement - Adam Morgan

Mali341 said...

Charlie Adam was man of match again ..two games in a row ...loved how he kept Yaya Toure out of the man city game on Wednesday ....he has won me over...we are going places...i just know it..

Zulkifli said...

Be patient with KD's brilliant 80 million spending and wait for Carrol,Henderson,Downing to come good in 4 to 5 years' time.In the meantime we are supposed to cheer KD all the way whilst the team finishes in 7th or 8th place for the next 5 years.If Carrol,Henderson or Downing don't come good in 5 years' time, we expect the owner to give KD 300 million to spend on 3 young English talents.Long live KD....

Simon said...

To all the sarcastic dickheads on here, no such thing as instant success. Go back to football manager

Our defence is solid, we have created enough chances to win most of the drawn home games at a canter, admittedly not enough chances created today

We need a forward like Chicarito, 12-15 points lost because we don't have a sharp forward. We should have signed Keane on loan

Or just start with Bellamy up front, although he may be unable to play multiple games

j75j said...

Shelvey didn't even play today!

Rob1973 said...

i think kenny should explain his selection today, i really feel for those fans who travel to home and away games...its alright for the ones who get paid for playing football, shit game.....doesn't matter, go to an ATM, withdraw £££££'s and cheer themselves up. What about those fans who spend hundreds of pounds!! If i waz kenny i would apologises to the fans rather than be all defensive and arrogant and all that bollocks about the players being down

oz said...

Anyone could've told you that stoke would play 9 at the back but kenny chose to play 5 of his own, keep his 2 potential goal scorers on the bench (that included another 3 defenders) and leave another proven goal scorer in Maxi out of the squad completely. To get anything more then a draw out of the game with those tactics would've been a miracle. We needed pace to get in behind and got nothing. The positives for me tonight were Martin Skrtel and the fact that the lads didn't concede. The blame lies squarely on Kenny's shoulders. Looks like we can kiss top 4 goodbye and hope to get something from the cups to save KK's blushes.YNWA.

Zulkifli said...

KD should start playing the sharp shooter Adam Morgan now before Barcelona come calling with a 35 million bid.We all should start appreciating young English talent.

comebackRafa said...

Dalglish thought Stoke would get everyone behind the ball so he didnt want to leave himself vulnerable to the counter attack so decided to play with a defensive formation and hope Gerrard could provide the inspiration to nick a goal and sit on a 1-0 lead all game.Dalglish is full of spin he said judge the players after one year,its been more than one year and we are about the same level as Stoke,hardworking good defensively(thanks Rafa).Dalglish is already relying on Rafas defence and Lucas before injury, so if he plays Maxi it looks as though hes relying on Rafas bargain signings which wont help his ego.No great keeper performance today no hard luck misses or goals  which should of been given,basically no excuses,we are what we are a team about the same level as Stoke.Rafa could rotate and tactically the players knew what to do under Rafas guidance,under Dalglish im afraid when he rotates his lack of tactical nouse and being able to influence a game is there for all to see,he thinks Gerrard and the league cup will be his saviour,well it wont.

Bernie said...

yaya toure didn't play on wednesday and adam came on as a sub and was far from man of the match

Tornike Khomeriki said...

(1) It was depressing in the first half to see only one of our players in the Stoke box most of the time. You are never going to score if you don't give yourself options with several attacking players in threatening positions;

(2) What was the point of having Coates (who didn't have lot to do and didn't really contribute much) while leaving Bellamy on the sidelines? We looked to do a lot of movement and passing, but left out one of our best players in doing that;

(3) Dalglish after the game: "There was nothing wrong with the players' effort or determination, but on the day we just weren't good enough to break them down." - This statement seems to suggest that in this match we didn't have enough class, just worked hard. If this is what this statement really aims to say, that must mean our class can magically appear and disappear from game to game?

j75j said...

Didn't we have the same sort of problems under Rafa drawing to many games?

Ynwa said...

It's Not 5-4-1 ! It's 3-6-1 , A Classic Formation . Practice For City Game , Maybe ...

theycallmemrburt said...

duped! Mali strikes again! lol

Madness said...

From what used to be considered a fortress, even just a few short years back, Anfield is sharply becoming a fixture for mid / lower table teams to pick up points with relative ease - no one fears us.
 
Strange that Kenny doesnt seem to think the squad needs improvement in this transfer window, either he has been told that he has to make do with what he has, after all the owners have backed him generously, or he is being stubborn and trying not to lose face with the signings from the summer.  
 
I have been saying for months that the purchase of another striker would be an indirect admission to the failure of Andy Carroll. Dalglish has strongly defended him, even at times argued that LFC are happy with his progress and accused the press of having agenda's against Carroll - so if he was to go and sign another striker which the club desperatley need right now KD would lose face and credibility.

5 points off 4th now, we need a finisher in the team or its no CL again
 

red_rooster said...

i don't think rafa ever drew 7 games consecutively at home, plus the team's scoring record was heaven's better, if somebody fell out of the squad like gerrard others stepped in, here suarez is out, nobody is even close to providing an alternative

Mali341 said...

Mate you just have to believe he did and if you don't believe it just ask red4life and he'll tell you

thelimpliberal said...

This thing just baffles me.  I could understand Stoke going to Anfield and playing 5 defenders, hoping to nick something on the counter, but for Liverpool to do it? I just don't understand.

With the best will in the world towards Stoke a team which has the ambition of Liverpool and which has spent as much as Liverpool should expect to beat them in a home fixture.

I can understand rearranging things with Agger out but why would anyone seriously think that, even with that, Stoke would be so much more of an attacking threat against what has been one of the meanest defences in the league this season.

I know there's been a struggle form the front to get the goals but setting the stall out so negatively is not going to give already struggling players any more firepower to turn that around.

Jameskolly said...

BBy bye kk....and shut the f@king door behind you.....

theycallmemrburt said...

yeah, so we sacked him.

I'm not saying Kenny should be sacked, I think his role should be changed to coach whilst at the same time reverting Comoli back to technical director where he can do what he does best.....buying the Bales and Lennons of tommorrow.  kenny's spending was crazy in the summer and it is even more bizarre now. 

KD has no excuse because as you said we also had the same 'draw specialist' problem under Rafa due to a lack of genuine flair, pace and creativity.  We used to rely on gonzalez, kuyt, Murphy, Pennant and Riise in wide positions, Downing and Henderson are genuine, out and out downgrades to those players and Kenny should be demoted or at the very least told to generate his own money from sales in future. 

The 'Money on the bonfire' saga continues after the break..............

Chicha said...

we need forlan, very cheap player with quality to hit the ball with both legs...

Beaumoricien said...

please bring us frank rikaard

Frank said...

Lets Pray Mourinho decides on coming to Pool instead of the scum in 2 seasons time. And then watch us winis league. We need some AFRICAN and SOUTH AMERICANS in our team - GET RID of these overpaid British waste. Henderson, Carroll, Shelvey, Spearing, Downing. THEY CANNOT PERFORM for a top4(potentially liverpool but unlikely) team. Sell them NOW.

Beaumoricien said...

dalglish is playing too defensively and we will not get in champions league again this way and stop buyin these british again

Frank said...

@SIMON. Instant Sucess - 2 words for u - u numpty. Manchester City.

Frank said...

Adn hopefully never again

Beaumoricien said...

dalglish should marry caroll

Jameskolly said...

Sick of excuses. if you are not good enough just go

Paul O Connor said...

In fairness this is getting a bit too much. For the first time in years I placed my bet on the game before seeing the team, as soon as I saw it I knew I was on a loser, it had 0-0 written all over it. Some things that puzzle me.....
If KK has so much faith in Carroll why is he so reluctant to start him, especially at home against Stoke who quite rightly have come looking for a draw?
Why then when he decides to bring on Carroll does he take off the one player he bought to provide service to Carroll ie. Downing? (no disrespect to Downing I just think we should have purchased him from Middlesborough at the time, when he was worth big money)
I'm sorry, I'm a Rafa fan but I have to question would we be so ineffective in attack if Rafa had the £75 million spent on Carroll, Henderson & Downing? (I know we were defensive but we could really turn it on when need be).
Why start with Kuyt up front on his own when he's clearly on a bad run of scoring form or maybe just getting on a bit?
Is KK serious when saying he's happy with the squad? I understand if the money is being held back as the summer splurge is looking like a serious error in player choice but why not give the youth a chance or other squad players?
Is KK's status at the club going to prevent the owners from removing him if this continues?
My own personal choice would be give him a number on the coaching staff and ask another previous manager to come to our rescue 'temporarily' I know one who'd do it on a pay as you do well basis........

j75j said...

I don't think Rafa was sacked over results to much in fighting going on.
Kenny's attacking players are letting him down but  
so is one of Rafa's favourites Kuyt! What has happened to him in front of goal  I know he isn't prolific for us but he weighed in with important goals and has paid back his transfer fee back 10 fold, I think Kenny should cash him in, if it's true there are teams prepared to pay nearly £10 million for him.

theycallmemrburt said...

I don't think Kennys attacking players are letting him down.  I believe they are performing extremely close to their level.  We have no variety to our play, everyone is an 'athlete' first footballer second.  Our team chemistry is all wrong containing far too many waiters and no cooks.  What we needed was for Danny Pacheco to still be at the club as Suarezs' understudy, a player with an off the cuff mentality and genuine natural abilty. Wasted.

As for Kuyt, I have watched him not bothering to track back so many times this season as right mid it does beg the question why he is still getting mins on the pitch.  He really looks like he can't be bothered this season.

Ansen said...

Miss Rafa  Dalglish is clueless  why Bellamy on the bench ? Maxi not even on the bench!!! Aquilani & Cole on loan.when will he give the chance to Raheem Sterling?Another year without Champions League.Comolli & Dalglish are not the future of lfc .Another s..t players on the list of Dalglish in the name of Zaha invest money on top players not the like of donkeys Henderson-Downing-Adam-Carroll ,Before the transfer windows hundred names on the list at the end we will come with empty hand
For the sake of LFC  QuEEN kENNY should resign
Ruben

Ro said...

Well put Frank and dont forget Chelsea as well!!

j75j said...

Pacheco was a victim of the Rafa purge even though he was moved on well after he had gone like Bruna 2 of the most promising players from Spain and we bomb out with out giving them a chance!
I don't think our fitness team is good enough they are all from sports not connected to football like  Australian Football League and cricket!  AFL is more endurance and strength like rugby when our players need to be sprinting our players are fit but they have no speed we need some real sprint coaches working with the players.

Kirk Dale said...

Just back from anfield ( live in Yorkshire ) absolutely pathetic , after being upset after all other home draws , could say well we hit the bar/ post if that had gone in , there goalie played great etc etc , but today what kind of set up was that ? 7 home draws , after previous 6 , we come up with the plan 3 centre halves Kuyt upfront on his own , looked unlikely to be positive before kick off , at half time we had proof it was stupid , but stuck with it , then put Carroll on but take Downing off as I said pathetic , and seeing as you bring it up Kenny why can't you do what SHANKS did and say same team in April as August , doing what your doing giving all the squad a game isn't doing any good is it , it's about a team , your best team , having a squad but playing your best team , If one two or however many of your team ( best team ) are injured suspended , then use the squad , don't just chop and change to give all the squad a game , seven draws at home proves its not working , could go on but wont , but imagine the crowd today if Hodgson had put that effing stupid side out

Stco said...

To say that Caroll was ineffective is utter rubbish, we only looked like scoring when he came onto the pitch, and downing was our best player in the first half, seriously what kind of a reporter are you!!!!, as for henderson he needs time, like a whole season, people like you should stop judging players after EVERY game!.

Kirk Dale said...

Just back from anfield ( live in Yorkshire ) absolutely pathetic , after being upset after all other home draws , could say well we hit the bar/ post if that had gone in , there goalie played great etc etc , but today what kind of set up was that ? 7 home draws , after previous 6 , we come up with the plan 3 centre halves Kuyt upfront on his own , looked unlikely to be positive before kick off , at half time we had proof it was stupid , but stuck with it , then put Carroll on but take Downing off as I said pathetic , and seeing as you bring it up Kenny why can't you do what SHANKS did and say same team in April as August , doing what your doing giving all the squad a game isn't doing any good is it , it's about a team , your best team , having a squad but playing your best team , If one two or however many of your team ( best team ) are injured suspended , then use the squad , don't just chop and change to give all the squad a game , seven draws at home proves its not working , could go on but wont , but imagine the crowd today if Hodgson had put that effing stupid side out

Kirk Dale said...

Just back from anfield ( live in Yorkshire ) absolutely pathetic , after being upset after all other home draws , could say well we hit the bar/ post if that had gone in , there goalie played great etc etc , but today what kind of set up was that ? 7 home draws , after previous 6 , we come up with the plan 3 centre halves Kuyt upfront on his own , looked unlikely to be positive before kick off , at half time we had proof it was stupid , but stuck with it , then put Carroll on but take Downing off as I said pathetic , and seeing as you bring it up Kenny why can't you do what SHANKS did and say same team in April as August , doing what your doing giving all the squad a game isn't doing any good is it , it's about a team , your best team , having a squad but playing your best team , If one two or however many of your team ( best team ) are injured suspended , then use the squad , don't just chop and change to give all the squad a game , seven draws at home proves its not working , could go on but wont , but imagine the crowd today if Hodgson had put that effing stupid side out

Stco said...

we havent drawn 7 straight games at home? qpr, oldham???

red_rooster said...

we're bound, btw i don't remember rafa drawing home 7 times in total, and if i remember correctly it's away that we had problems winning with minnows, and it definitely wasn't that bad, for one simple reason the squad was much better

j75j said...

Shelvey was brought by Rafa and is most probably our best young hopes he should of played today he his strong for his age at 19 compared to some players his age and would of been busting a gut to get into the penalty area, unlike them today even Stevie was slow in getting forward and into the area.
 

j75j said...

Newcastle

Ansen said...

what the result if they were effective accept that all the English players bought by Dalglish are S..t .When will they be effetive in 2-3 years 

j75j said...

Wasn't Johnson playing as a wing back so was playing in the midfield all game?

Fuckingfedup@hotmail.com said...

Same old, same old excitement over nothing nearly every bloody season since we last won the title. Feels like another age. Soon getting to a year where it will feel like we are a  Forest or a Villa, i.e., last won the title in a time so long ago that we are now equal to a average side, instead of a big side. So much money wasted since the PL began by us.

Pete said...

When we played 3 at the back vs Chelsea last season, it was be cause we were the underdogs away from home. Besides, KD went on to spend over £55mln to presumably lose the underdogs tag against the traditional top 4 sides.
Does this now mean KD considers us underdogs to Stoke at Anfiled?
When KD sets up the team whether we win or not, it leaves many people baffled as to what his intentions are even Glen Johnson got confused in the Carling Cup against City.
Is he simply picking a team of 11 to send out and hope for the best?
I can understand liverpool would not announce they will spend money but what message is he sending to fans and the under-performing players when he says he is satisfied with over £100mln worth of attacking talent that scores 24 goals in 20 games, at this rate top scorers Van Persie and Ba may finish the season on more goals than Liverpool unless more money is spent to correct the wasted money but it then also gets me worried on whether KD can be trusted to spend the money wisely.
He may be good motivationally but his deficiency in the tactical stakes is showing and can also be said to be the reason money has been spent with little in terms of proportional return. 
His tactical naivety may also be the reason why his buys have been poor because a manager has to be tactically astute to buy players that fit into a coherent tactical plan or variations of that plan.
I certainly hope KD's success in the first spell in charge were not because he inherited a successful team with a winning ethic in place already otherwise the second spell maybe a step too far because building  a team with no recent success may be beyond him. Yes Blackburn was independent success given he did build the team but they were the City and Chelsea of those days with bucketfuls of money to spend.

Pete said...

When we played 3 at the back vs Chelsea last season, it was be cause we were the underdogs away from home. Besides, KD went on to spend over £55mln to presumably lose the underdogs tag against the traditional top 4 sides.
Does this now mean KD considers us underdogs to Stoke at Anfiled?
When KD sets up the team whether we win or not, it leaves many people baffled as to what his intentions are even Glen Johnson got confused in the Carling Cup against City.
Is he simply picking a team of 11 to send out and hope for the best?
I can understand liverpool would not announce they will spend money but what message is he sending to fans and the under-performing players when he says he is satisfied with over £100mln worth of attacking talent that scores 24 goals in 20 games, at this rate top scorers Van Persie and Ba may finish the season on more goals than Liverpool unless more money is spent to correct the wasted money but it then also gets me worried on whether KD can be trusted to spend the money wisely.
He may be good motivationally but his deficiency in the tactical stakes is showing and can also be said to be the reason money has been spent with little in terms of proportional return. 
His tactical naivety may also be the reason why his buys have been poor because a manager has to be tactically astute to buy players that fit into a coherent tactical plan or variations of that plan.
I certainly hope KD's success in the first spell in charge were not because he inherited a successful team with a winning ethic in place already otherwise the second spell maybe a step too far because building  a team with no recent success may be beyond him. Yes Blackburn was independent success given he did build the team but they were the City and Chelsea of those days with bucketfuls of money to spend.

j75j said...

Man City have been building since before before 2008!

Baba said...

Just face the fact that the game was absolutely pathetic to watch. Face the fact that currently LFC don't have any creativity and are a bore to watch. Even tottenham looked to have eclipse us and they have not spend as much as us. Real embarrassment of a display, we just look a bore to watch this season

Brian -Ormskirk said...

When Dalglish took over the reins last season, he steadied the ship, turned in some great performances and it all augured well for this season. I went to the bookies confident that we would finish in the top four, and would win at least one of the cups on offer. Oh, silly me !!
The warning signs where there when he dropped tried and trusted players like Kuypt, Maxi and Bellamy and put the new boys in. Even after they underwhelmed week after week, he persisted with this action. Shankly, Paisley and Fagan were great believers in not changing a winning side. I don't believe that Dalglish has followed this principle once this season when we have actually secured a victory.
Why have we got a reserve team ? Both Wenger and Old Red Nose are at least prepared to throw their youngsters in. We have done it with Spearing and Kelly and Flannigan but why haven't we given the likes of Stirling, Morgan, Eccleston etc a chance ?
I have been far from satisfied with a lot of the teram selections but I am dismayed at the current team tactics. Against City it was horrible but we got the result, no matter how nerve racking. Today, at home, was even worse.
As a top four finish is slipping ever further away, I believe that Dalglish's future depends on the results of the two Cup games against City and United. Fenway Group have been extremely generous, but, at he end of the day, they want a return for their investment, and their patience  must be wearing very very thin at the moment. The possibility of a 'minor' cup and the threat of no European action next season will hardly encourage them to open the cheque book

Brian -Ormskirk said...

When Dalglish took over the reins last season, he steadied the ship, turned in some great performances and it all augured well for this season. I went to the bookies confident that we would finish in the top four, and would win at least one of the cups on offer. Oh, silly me !!
The warning signs where there when he dropped tried and trusted players like Kuypt, Maxi and Bellamy and put the new boys in. Even after they underwhelmed week after week, he persisted with this action. Shankly, Paisley and Fagan were great believers in not changing a winning side. I don't believe that Dalglish has followed this principle once this season when we have actually secured a victory.
Why have we got a reserve team ? Both Wenger and Old Red Nose are at least prepared to throw their youngsters in. We have done it with Spearing and Kelly and Flannigan but why haven't we given the likes of Stirling, Morgan, Eccleston etc a chance ?
I have been far from satisfied with a lot of the teram selections but I am dismayed at the current team tactics. Against City it was horrible but we got the result, no matter how nerve racking. Today, at home, was even worse.
As a top four finish is slipping ever further away, I believe that Dalglish's future depends on the results of the two Cup games against City and United. Fenway Group have been extremely generous, but, at he end of the day, they want a return for their investment, and their patience  must be wearing very very thin at the moment. The possibility of a 'minor' cup and the threat of no European action next season will hardly encourage them to open the cheque book

Hoq said...

Dont really see it the same way a lot of you do. Yes we were dissapointing today but even top teams have days when they have to grind it out. The touble is the team dont have enough players who can finish. today we didnt create much either but thats not common. Kuyt had a great chance and should have got us the points. Most matches we create plenty, keep it tight at the back and are the better team. I think the players need to take responsibility. I know Kenny bought a lot of the under performing ones but they are capable of more. 

j75j said...

Lot of the players Chelsea had success in the league were actually brought in the years before by Ranieri!  Mourinho just finished the job off and even Vialli was having success in Cups at Chelsea 7 years before they actually won the league, success never happens as quick as some fans think!

j75j said...

Fergie 4 years to win a trophy 7 years to win the League 13 years to win the Champions League!

Fuckingfedup@hotmail.com said...

Well how many 'top teams' have drawn as many games as we have done this season? Today wasn't a one-off of that kind performance from us, its been like that in many games this season.  We had loads of possession against City in the league but we did very little with it.

Jameskolly said...

Feel sorry for us if we have 13years of this to look forward to

Pete said...

When we played 3 at the back vs Chelsea last season, it was be cause we were the underdogs away from home. Besides, KD went on to spend over £55mln to presumably lose the underdogs tag against the traditional top 4 sides.
Does this now mean KD considers us underdogs to Stoke at Anfiled?
When KD sets up the team whether we win or not, it leaves many people baffled as to what his intentions are even Glen Johnson got confused in the Carling Cup against City.
Is he simply picking a team of 11 to send out and hope for the best?
I can understand liverpool would not announce they will spend money but what message is he sending to fans and the under-performing players when he says he is satisfied with over £100mln worth of attacking talent that scores 24 goals in 20 games, at this rate top scorers Van Persie and Ba may finish the season on more goals than Liverpool unless more money is spent to correct the wasted money but it then also gets me worried on whether KD can be trusted to spend the money wisely.
He may be good motivationally but his deficiency in the tactical stakes is showing and can also be said to be the reason money has been spent with little in terms of proportional return. 
His tactical naivety may also be the reason why his buys have been poor because a manager has to be tactically astute to buy players that fit into a coherent tactical plan or variations of that plan.
I certainly hope KD's success in the first spell in charge were not because he inherited a successful team with a winning ethic in place already otherwise the second spell maybe a step too far because building  a team with no recent success may be beyond him. Yes Blackburn was independent success given he did build the team but they were the City and Chelsea of those days with bucketfuls of money to spend.

Max said...

What about the penalty claims?

j75j said...

When he did it last season he had tactics against Chelsea and Stoke both games won does it this season and he hasn't got a clue! Stoke who have at least 6 players well over 6 foot we would have had 1 if Coates hadn't of played !
He was let down by all of the forward players Rafa's and his own the tactics were pretty straight forward
for a team playing 3 at the back the full backs push on give you your width its up to the midfield to push up with them and support the man in the middle but none of them did and Kuyt kept going walk about with no one taking his place or breaking late into the box to many long range efforts!

j75j said...

That's just it though Fergie was given that long!

Hoq said...

The reason we drew so many at home is due to finshing in nearly all matches. I didnt say it was a one off performance but it probably was as we usually create a lot. In the man c league game Liverpool created 18 chances to cities 10. That is what i'm saying. The manager can only do so much, he cant score the goals as well.

Ro said...

Have u just landed from another planet and got blonde hair?? Shocking!!!

Hoq said...

Would you care to make a point? About football I mean.

Jameskolly said...

Manure never played the crapp football we play with the money spent.

Kirk Dale said...

Just watched Kenny's interview on bbc , how was the team dictated to us like we had no choice . he said Enrique was a doubt but made it on to the pitch why risk it Kelly and Flanagan on bench , and Bellamy or Carroll start instead of Carra or Coates , honestly don't know how we could put that side out today , very worrying

Pete said...

Hi jamie..can u possibly delete my other comments which duplicated..the system was not posted so i ended up inadvertently spamming with reposts..Sorry about that

3PhDs said...

Liverpool should SACK KD for playing 5 defenders against a team that never attacked - disgraceful!

Rowanuk said...

tired of KD and his waffle. he is a walking cliche. roy aside i don't think ive ever heard a manager talk such drivel. Kenny does not have the intelligence for modern day management. he's a relic.
How long before the kop sings RA-FA RAFAEL RA-FA RAFAEL?
You don't buy 'prem ready' players for them to take seasons to settle in, that's the whole point of buying them, so you hit the ground running.

i implore the board not to give KD more than a season , unless things improve vastly.

Ro said...

My point is, Dalgish is making so many errors in his team selection at the moment, that its clearly showing on the pitch and rather than helping his cause, he's digging himself a big hole.  1) Playing Kuyt upfront (no goals this season and not even an out and out striker) 2) leaving Bellamy on the bench who is our most dangerous player going forward.  3) Downing started again and came off for the 2nd time after an hour, ineffective again and out of his depth.  Put him on the left or right he is at best average.  Carroll should be playing ever game if he's to gain any confidence infront of goal, so why keep starting him and then leaving him on the bench.  4) Where's Maxi?? Always seems to crop up with a goal when he plays.  Half season gone and ur want the players to take some responsibility, do u not think Dalglish has already gone through this drill??? Poor summer buys at inflated prices, is this not down to the manager.  You can sit there and wait for the average players to show some talent, but I'm afraid u will see the parade go by.  I'm a firm believer in what u put in is what u get out and avoid excuses.  Its like me being late for work and keep using traffic as an excuse.  Do u reckon Sir Alex would expect 7 draws at home, u need winning mentality and believe, unfortunately there isn't alot of that at the moment.  You cannot keep using the work in progress excuse.  The buck has always and will always come down to the manager I'm afraid.  By the way Man city had a weakened side so it was a case of them playing badly and giving us a penalty.  The only reason we have started scoring after xmas is because of Gerrard (not fully match fit) and as usual we have to rely on the legend..AGAIN!! After all the money spent in the summer.  Dalgish can still turn this around by going out and getting a striker & winger in the transfer window, otherwise u can say goodbye to 4th spot!!

Mali341 said...

We have scored 24 goals and conceded 18goals in 21 games ...

Feel so proud that kk took over..

jj said...

Think they have just that they have won when they play crapp.

j75j said...

How did Kenny play football if he didn't have the intelligence? He didn't need jet speed to do things with ball he was always one step ahead of the game?
Rafa is becoming a relic! How long has been out of the game for now?

Yingxian1122 said...

I think Kenny tried to be clever in the Stoke game but failed miserably. I don't blame the formation but the selection. The 5 defenders placed at the back was meant to trigger more attacking play from Enrique and Johnson. And face it, Enrique is far more dangerous than Downing on the wing and Johnson is more dangerous than Henderson when he has the ball as well. But what I don't get is Kenny's persistence with his buyings, Downing and Henderson. These two players should have been substituted during the start of second half and bring Bellamy and Carroll on. Kenny is very slow and dull at making substitution. We became more dangerous upfront with Carroll on the field but I don't think Carroll can take the credits. We simply needed more bodies at the penalty box. But I still do not think Kuyt wandered at the flanks and not in the box is a 'positional indiscipline'. He is facing too many defenders as a lone striker and he is not Suarez. That's why we got more dangerous when Carroll is on the field. We don't have players who can make combination move and pass the ball quickly except Gerrard, and surely Kuyt can't rely on the likes of Downing and Henderson to deliver enough ball to him as wingers if he keep staying inside the box. Kuyt was not doing well in this game as he failed 2 clear chances, but I think the major problem is still creating chances. We lack of imagination to break down the defense just like what Kenny said.

Abdul Aziz said...

its a dogshite performance guys..kuyt was poor..free header in the box but missed it..seriously??5 centre half...and why isnt agger playing...carrol is a waste of money..he cant even win a single  header..he kept falling down every time shawcross makes a challenge...that not what u expect from a 35 mil striker..it is painful to say this but im afraid that dalglish is not perfect for the job..of course there is improvement but we need better improvement...

Leemengboon said...

we suck, period. It was painfult o watch repeats and repeats of crosses not finding our own, of Carroll doing ice skating and falling all over the place, of our guys always slightly late to tap the ball in, of kuyt giving the ball away, of SG not penetrating, of , of..., of... such a sorry state...Bring in a striker for God's sake. BTW, only Skytel is our best striker so far in the game

Fuckingfedup@hotmail.com said...

Random shots don't really count as proper chances in my book but each to their own, if they think all shots count as chances. We never looked like scoring against them in the league, despite all that possession, because there were barely any proper chances. 

Well the manager can do something, such as not buying a striker that has barely done anything in PL for so much money and to make it worse, use tactics that goes against the style of the striker in question. 

Fuckingfedup@hotmail.com said...

No longer than KK before he came back to Pool and it seems KK's time out of football shows in his management of the club so far

Redbaronn2 said...

Oh yea lets lay the blame now on the Sports Science fitness department...what a load of bullshit. Anything to get the heat off Kenny. If you really want to know AFL players will leave those hacks in Adam , Henderson and Downing for dead...you obviously have never seen a game of AFL it is played at breakneck speed.

Mikearms said...

With 5 defenders on the pitch and 3 defenders on the bench, was anyone really expecting Liverpool to score today?
Dalglish copied the tactics he used last season when we beat Stoke 2-0 unfortunately we didn't have the same quality, with Meireless stupidly sold and Suarez suspended. Tactics only work when you have quality players to implement them but we had far too many average players in the first 11 today. Our most creative players Maxi & Shelvey didn't even get a look in. I get the feeling Steve Clarke is having a major influence on the defensive tactics we have been employing recently.

Derp? said...

I don't think the formation was necessarily negative- playing 5-4-1 doesn't necessarily mean we'll only have 4 or 5 players in their half. Most of the time today we had about 8 up.
 
Taking off Downing was puzzling, hard to understand since he should be feeding Carroll. Bellamy was anonymous when he came on and I think we would have been better keeping Downing or Henderson on. That said, it is usually better to have Bellamy on the pitch.

Don't know what has happened to Maxi, I haven't heard.

Why he didn't start with Carroll, I'll never know. We've got to get something out of it sooner or later. Needs to learn to stand up though. Most top strikers have rudimentary balance.

Derp? said...

Shelvey cost feck all and looks a real prospect and Spearing cost nothing and at the very least is a perfect squad player.

Early days for Henderson too.

T-rex said...

This is getting ridiculous now. Liverpool has drawn 8 matches until now.
This is the second worse in the league. Only aston villa drew more matches(9 in all). This is not acceptable at all for a team like LFC supposed to be challenging for top 4. They scored only 24 goals in 21 matches. Thats simply pathetic! With that kind of statistics only a miracle would make them take this 4th champions league spot. The 3rd place is already for tottenham and the title will go to either city or united. kenny dalglish and damien comolli need to move their @sses before its too late. A quality striker and wingers are mandatory. forget the 75 million on henderson caroll and downing. We all know it was money wasted except kenny and comolli. Now im hearing that kenny do not plan on going into the transfer market this winter. has he gone crazy!? And I also hope that these rumors linking liverpool to all those black players are false. Kenny dalglish has been biased towards english players or players playing in the premier league last transfer window. Dont tell me that now he is getting biased towards black players in order to show to the world that liverpool is not racist! Players should be bought on merit not on nationality or ethnicity. If kenny and comolli do not pull their sh!t together they need to be sacked asap.

SouthAussieRed said...

i thought it was one of our worst performances for the season.

SouthAussieRed said...

I couldnt agree more we played shit!

Specialist123 said...

Finally theres someone out there who shares the same view as me. However, can you please change the title to £75m worth of ENGLISH talent. English players are overrated and overvalued these days, and Henderson, Downing and Carrol are prime examples. Who have our best players been this season so far?
Maxi, Bellamy, Adam, Enrique, Lucas - see a pattern? you're fu**ing right, theyr not english !!!!! After Gerrard, I dont think liverpool will ever get a decent english player.

Amitpable said...

AMIT-i saw this coming even b4 the season began when i saw liverpool trying to sign henderson downing and when they were signed really for 1 second i thought i should stop supporting lfc but they r in my heart but if rafa had been given this money i m dam sure top spanish players would have been playing instead of british crap i think even i m better than henderson kenny u suck and have destroyed my club come on owners wake up now b4 its too late

A Tyhuj said...

Apart from the poor tactics we displayed and my huge concerns around Carroll and Downing, I do not see where the talent lies with Jordan Henderson. If we are to ever compete for the Premier league, each player we buy must have at least one exceptional talent, whether that be tackling, crossing, pace, creativity, or scoring. I do not see any of these atributes in Henderson. I would rather see Shelvey on the pitch, who I believe has far more potential in several of these categories. I cannot understand how Henderson is getting so much game time with his abject performances. There was a time when we would buy top players, who would only get into the side when they deserved to.

Ashfah Hussain said...

Buy British, hehehe. I notice that most British players are poor with their left foot. What a handicapped and overpriced players.

John Constantine said...

shite game,strange team selection,kuyt can't trap a bag of cement.

j75j said...

With the ball at their feet? AFL is game of running, jumping and catching with players trying to knock you over, flatten the player you need to be hard as nails!Don't they play in quarters in AFL game lasts 3hrs with stoppages? I put our players are fit they are strong upper body but they haven't no real sprinting power they last 90mins  and footballer now a days has to be strong and LIGHT on their feet so they can move the ball quick our players look heavy legged like they need to stand there ground like they do in AFL. All we hear is our team lacks pace in moving the ball and running especially the forward line.Players with the body like Torres was when he first arrived quick and light on his feet but could still out muscle a defender like he did to Vidic!Do you think Torres could play AFL or Ronaldo?

j75j said...

Seem to forget Kenny had a cracking start when he came back into football last season like he had never been away! If you hadn't noticed we don't look like losing games home or away so one area of our game has improved dramatically from the last 3 seasons but some fans haven't noticed that though! 
Kenny has made a big call in dropping Carragher some thought that would never happen and that he was always needed. 

DiskoBiskit said...

Its not the starting Line-Up that seems the problem!

Surely its the lack of guile in attack!

The cross and hope tactics against Man City were evident in nothing but a hit-and-hope mentality. We have had this for far too long. We need guile in attack; Whatever happened to attacking down the centre when our wide options have drawn men outwards. 

I think Enrique has been superb all season.

Downing has shown an absolute lack of goal scoring ability. The boy could not score in a brothel.

And lets just be honest, Carroll is a waste of space on the pitch.

But with Stevie back, and playing Bellemy as an out and out striker( as he is the best we have at present ), coupled with some attacking prowess surely will yield better results.

For progress, we need a creative, attack minded team. The opposite of what we play like at the moment.

lowee78 said...

cut our losses and start again with a couple of the new signings.
kenny is still the man!!

Gusto said...

We were brilliant in the second half of last season, being the best side in the league during that period statistically.

But that was with a squad that he barely had any input with in terms of purchases.

Sold our best midfielder last season who picked up vital goals, Meireles, and in came in his buys. Since then, it has been downhill in a very fast manner, compared to our performance from the second half of last season.

Yep, we don't look like losing many games because we keep the ball well but we do nothing with it. Sorry, this is Liverpool and we're not supposed to be some tough mid-table bogey team, we're supposed to be a big club.

Such a mediocre standards is not expected at Anfield.

You talk about 'from the last seasons' and how we have improved upon that in certain areas. So thats 10/11, 09/10 and 08/09, yes?

Well we finished 2nd in 08/09, a very good 2nd. We were a tough team in terms of picking up wins against us that season. I'll take that season, that team, those performances, those results, over the forgettable mediocre standard that has been served up this season.

j75j said...

So you were happy with draws at home to teams like Stoke in 08/09 season which in the end cost us the league? The performances you talk about came from March onwards when we were unstoppable but it was to late by then we needed it from January.

Stco said...

Downing in the 5th minute, maxi toward the end, and he we been a little luckier in front of goal we could have got something from the city game, as goes for a lot of games this season and as every liverpool fan knows we need a striker...

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