As every fan will no doubt have seen by now, Liverpool defender Daniel Agger has publicly lambasted his team-mates as a result of the team's poor showing against Swansea. Was such public evisceration warranted?
Agger, who clearly forgot about the Liverpool principle of never washing dirty laundry in public, blasted:
‘Sometimes we looked like headless chickens running around after the ball. We were really, really bad. When we got the ball we lost it straight away. We were not sharp enough. We did not press well enough. There were so many things that were really disappointing, especially after we played okay last week.
‘We have to win these types of games, no matter which kind of team we put out. We are Liverpool Football Club. If we play like this, we won’t (get back into the top four). We have got to move up a level or two. I won’t say it is not possible, because it is but it is up to the players. We are the only ones who can make a difference. We definitely have to do a lot better.’
Agger also indirectly criticised specific members of the team with the following comment:
"I think everyone was angry and disappointed, some more than others, but that is the way it is"
Was Agger right to be this critical in public?
In my view, Agger was wrong to make these comments in public. Calling his team-mates 'headless chickens'?! Suggesting that some of them don't care as much about the club as others?
He may be right with some of his observations, and he has every right to make them, but is it really helpful making them in public? How are such comments - now gleefully seized upon by the media - conducive to fostering positive team-spirit?
Agger has only served to fan the flames of media negativity towards LFC with his diatribe, and I can't see how anything positive can come of what he's said.
This season, Kenny Dalglish has repeatedly stated that he won't allow divisions at Anfield, and he's also reiterated several times that club business should be carried out behind closed doors. Well, so much for the Liverpool Way of doing things!
Agger has shattered the illusion of unity at Anfield with his comments, and I doubt that Dalglish will be happy about it, especially at a time when the club is coming under increasing pressure as a result of underwhelming performances.
Damage control is already underway at the club. This morning, the official site posted a news story in which Dalglish praises Agger's defensive abilities. Coincidence? I think not. More like a subtle attempt to say 'It's okay - we're all friends really!'
Such vociferous public criticism of fellow players is never acceptable IMO, especially from Agger, who has received such massive support from the club despite spending the majority of his Liverpool career on the treatment table.
In my view, Agger should be fined for his comments, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him dropped when Jamie Carragher returns to fitness.
Jaimie Kanwar
Agger, who clearly forgot about the Liverpool principle of never washing dirty laundry in public, blasted:
‘Sometimes we looked like headless chickens running around after the ball. We were really, really bad. When we got the ball we lost it straight away. We were not sharp enough. We did not press well enough. There were so many things that were really disappointing, especially after we played okay last week.
‘We have to win these types of games, no matter which kind of team we put out. We are Liverpool Football Club. If we play like this, we won’t (get back into the top four). We have got to move up a level or two. I won’t say it is not possible, because it is but it is up to the players. We are the only ones who can make a difference. We definitely have to do a lot better.’
Agger also indirectly criticised specific members of the team with the following comment:
"I think everyone was angry and disappointed, some more than others, but that is the way it is"
Was Agger right to be this critical in public?
In my view, Agger was wrong to make these comments in public. Calling his team-mates 'headless chickens'?! Suggesting that some of them don't care as much about the club as others?
He may be right with some of his observations, and he has every right to make them, but is it really helpful making them in public? How are such comments - now gleefully seized upon by the media - conducive to fostering positive team-spirit?
Agger has only served to fan the flames of media negativity towards LFC with his diatribe, and I can't see how anything positive can come of what he's said.
This season, Kenny Dalglish has repeatedly stated that he won't allow divisions at Anfield, and he's also reiterated several times that club business should be carried out behind closed doors. Well, so much for the Liverpool Way of doing things!
Agger has shattered the illusion of unity at Anfield with his comments, and I doubt that Dalglish will be happy about it, especially at a time when the club is coming under increasing pressure as a result of underwhelming performances.
Damage control is already underway at the club. This morning, the official site posted a news story in which Dalglish praises Agger's defensive abilities. Coincidence? I think not. More like a subtle attempt to say 'It's okay - we're all friends really!'
Such vociferous public criticism of fellow players is never acceptable IMO, especially from Agger, who has received such massive support from the club despite spending the majority of his Liverpool career on the treatment table.
In my view, Agger should be fined for his comments, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him dropped when Jamie Carragher returns to fitness.
Jaimie Kanwar
He actually refers to the performance as "we" and not "them" so I don't think he's saying anything different than most inane post non victory comments. Its no different to him saying "we didn't play well today, we looked lost and off our game, we are LFC and we need to improve to finish in top". Surely there is no bigger sign of unity than a player using the plural instead of the singular in negative terms.
ReplyDeleteI love honesty in football and I see no different in post match honesty to in game honest. Good on him. After 10 seasons of under performing vs the "lesser" sides its about time LFC players removed the chips off their shoulders and knuckled down, working hard for their points in all games.
Hats off to the lad, I'm glad he said it.
I don't disagree with what he's said, but objectively speaking, is being so harsh in public a good idea? How does this breed unity? What happens if every player starts saying similar things; would that be okay? What about the negative media Agger's comments will create?
ReplyDeleteI think you are way off jamie! It is OK for you to write articles saying things that Agger said but then have a problem when he says something. Double standards me doth think! What he said was obvious to anybody who saw the match... to not say something is not being honest.
ReplyDeleteHow is it double standards? He's already said it! Whether I write about it or not doesn't make any difference. Plus, I'm not putting a negative slant on it like the some of the media, subtly implying that things are going wrong at LFC etc. Agger chose to make it public, not me, and I'm merely questioning the wisdom in saying these things in public.
ReplyDeleteHow about this side....................Reina.....Kelly, Carra, Agger, Enrique.......Lucas, Adam.......Downing, Gerrard, Bellamy.......Suarez.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad one of the 'team' realises it was a lacklustre performance. Headless chicken football perfectly describes the Redmen for the last 20 years.
ReplyDeleteAgree with everything you said!!!!
ReplyDeleteTraditionally that was the Liverpool way but it's not working at the moment. Why can we continually allow players to keep criticism behind closed doors when it doesn't work? We shouldn't be allowing players to be constantly getting away with it. We should be offering up the challenge for them to answer and prove wrong. Until then I think the statement was valid and desperately needed. Don't forget players are earning incredible amounts of money playing Football and you're saying in no way are they accountable? Its one thing keeping criticism behind closed doors it's another thing to put that up to the public for the players to answer. Thats why Benitez had a certain amount of success, his criticism of players was of an amount that forced the players to act rather than just plod around week in week out. Just think about it, his criticism was reflected in his line-ups and publicly it was known he was a hard man to please. It forced the players to adapt to survive.
ReplyDeleteCouldn't disagree with you more! Dalglish had already used the phrases ' unacceptable' and ' disappointing'so Agger was merely confirming that the team agreed. In no way has he 'shattered the illusion of unity at Anfield'. It would be shattered if one of the players on Saturday had declared that the performance was OK and that they had put in a full shift ! According to the rhetoric of some of your contributors Agger has committed sacrilege by criticizing the team, but I find it refreshing that he has had the courage to state what was blatantly obvious to all and sundry !
ReplyDeleteIt's a whole lot better than having a manager who goes around saying he does not blame Carroll... he does not blame Henderson... he does not blame Downing... he does not blame Adam etc. After all that, he says society is at fault.
ReplyDeleteI don't think what he said was that bad. It's all true, and he includes himself. During the game, I actually said that they look like headless chicken these days, running around without really knowing where or why.
ReplyDeleteWhat he's actually saying, is that he's sorry for the team's bad performance, and he (and probably the rest of them) knows that they should be able to do better, and will try to.
Clueless manager in charge of headless team. What a deadly combination.
ReplyDeleteJamie you are a hypocite. You pride yourself on this site being for "critical realism" and yet when a player has a go you think its wrong. Well imo Agger did nothing wrong if he had criticised individuals by name (Like you do with Henderson, Carroll and Downing) that would be different. however he criticised the team unit which included himself and mentioned no names. I admire his honesty. Some might say he should leave it to the manager but imo he should be able to say what he feels. I think you have highlighted this because Agger is on your hate list along with Rafa Henderson and Downing. True ??
ReplyDeleteit's an ugly truth that everyone saw but never said (in public).even we (lfc fans) did not say anythig like that while we should have said it out loud and even worse than what agger said,instead we always ask questions on our team performance but not saying how bad they are performing espacially against the teams we should get 3 points. no lfc fan is mentioning how bad our new signings(most of them) are playing when they dont play well. we made only 1 class signing and one quality signing (adam and suarez), and the others are just average player while we expected class players.so i thing someone has to say it out loud so KD knows what to buy next time...
ReplyDeleteI can't agree with that, Jamie, sorry. Agger only criticised our performance, and said all the right words. He didn't slate anyone in person, he only pointed out that the team's performance was below par - something that we could see, and so could everyone. In no way does this expose us to any additional criticism. Admitting the problem is the half way to solving it. And we should not care what media or rival fans may or may not think.
ReplyDeleteRespect to Agger for saying out loud what everyone thinks.
Hi Jamie while i agree with you that these things should not be made in public... After reading these comments i must say some of my frustration has been released... i mean WHY IS IT THAT WE CANT BEAT THESE TEAMS AT ANFIELD?
ReplyDeleteand im sorry look at the the teams around us newcastle for example playing much better footie than us... with all dew respect newcastle who spent what? The players really have alot to answer for in my opinion... they are costing us big time and yes my faith in dalglish is starting to waine... lets face it guys after last season and our previous manager we were very critical on him but i see similiar performances from these players now or at least the results are similar... henderson is useless on the right! We all can see it im sorry i know he is for the future but we cant be carrying players in the team now... i agree with you also that swansea made us look very ordinary... very ordinary in deed...
Agger was spot on and has shown the leadership LFC is lacking. The overpriced players have failed. I don't see where the term "unity" has any meaning when players are letting the team down. Nothing unites a team like winning. After, Suarez and Kuyt were the only ones hussling on the weekend.
ReplyDeleteHear, Hear Brian!
ReplyDeleteCarra should not be brought back in if we can avoid it.
ReplyDeleteAnd wouldn't it seem Agger has a better point of view or at least a very valid one? considering he works and plays with these guys day in day out?
ReplyDeleteRight, so slagging off your team-mates in public and ignoring the directive of the manager to keep issue behind closed doors is now seen a great leadership? Perhaps all the players should come out in the press and slag each other off; we'd have a team full of amazing leaders then.
ReplyDeleteI reckon this is slightly provocative - firstly, notice Agger's use of 'we'... he's actually speaking of the teams COLLECTIVE performance. Secondly, he did not, as has been suggested, 'call' his team-mates 'headless chickens'. He is quoted to have said: "Sometimes we looked like headless chickens running around"; which uses simile, & again it should be said that he includes himself.
ReplyDeleteApparently, Jaimie, you don't like the suggestion that some players 'don't care as much about the club as others'? This is an objective FACT: No living person can make any individual care EQUALLY for LFC as another; let alone a whole squad! How can we measure a a players' depth of 'care'?
You also say that Agger 'shattered the illusion of unity at Anfield' - this is an extraordinary statement! To which unity do you refer; was it an illusion; & how exactly has it been shattered? If Agger has shattered an illusion, I would say that's a very good thing!
If you are referring to any unity 'of thought' in the way the team is playing; I would (very much) subjectively suggest that this is the major reason Livepool haven't quite got the performances right, just yet. Maybe that is down to making so many changes to the first 11 this season.
But the whole question of whether it is right or wrong to make such statements is itself entirely subjective - it's just a matter of opinion; & as for the suggestion that Agger might be dropped, he's probably the best ball-playing CB in the PL; so if you don't want LFC playing controlled, confident PaM, drop him!
Kenny has come out and praised Agger's performances my be Kenny has allowed for Agger who can see what is going on in front of him to rise his frustration and highlight some issues in the team.
ReplyDeleteKenny has also slammed the Players and said.
If we had scored early on it might have changed the way the game went but we never scored so it is hypothetical,” said the Scot.
“No-one has ever in the history of football deliberately missed a chance.
“That is 10 times we have hit the post or the bar this season.
“Maybe if the chance goes in it may have changed the complexion of the game but as well as paying credit to Swansea we have to look at ourselves.”
“I think the performance was disappointing,” added the Reds boss.
“Swansea played the way we would have expected they would play but we didn’t play the way we expected to play. Anything that we were good at we certainly didn’t do too much of today.
“We are usually good at passing and moving and there was not a great deal of that and when we got it back we gave it away quickly.
“They had one chance in the second half when the boy (Mark Gower) put it over and Pepe made a save in the first half but we have to understand that level of performance isn’t acceptable.”
What about the general LFC principle of never airing dirty laundry in public, something that Dalglish has reiterated several times this season. Does conducting oneself with dignity suddenly not apply anymore just because you agree with what the player said?
ReplyDeleteKennys praise of Agger.
ReplyDeleteKenny Dalglish has hailed centre-back Daniel Agger's return to the Liverpool team and believes the Dane is up with there with the very best defenders in the Premier League.
Agger has impressed since returning to the Reds line-up after his injury lay-off and has helped the team to back-to-back clean sheets.
And Dalglish is convinced Agger has all the attributes to make him one of the best players in the league and is confident his injury problems are behind him.
"Daniel's a fantastic player but it wasn't just down to Daniel that we've had two clean sheets," said Dalglish.
"He's a fantastic player and he's probably as good as anyone else in his position in the Barclays Premier League.
"He's comfortable in possession and he's a very good defender as well.
"He's a top defender, a top player. He played left-back for us at Stoke as well and did very well.
"It's great to have him back and I hope his fitness remains as it is for a long time."
Whether he said 'we' and referred to himself is not really relevant. As I've already stated, I agree with Agger's comments; the point is, should he saying such things in public? In what universe is saying such negative stuff good for the team?
ReplyDelete* It creates a feeding frenzy for the press, who will now run with this story and make things sound as bad as possible.
* KD will inevitably be asked about Agger's comments at the next press conference, which means the issue will drag on.
* KD has stated on several occasions this season that he will 'not allow divisions at the club'; he has also repeatedly stressed the need for togetherness.
* The LFC way of doing things is to solve problems behind closed doors, and not wash dirty linen in public.
* It seems inevitable that one or two players may take exception to Agger's insinuations, which may lead to further disunity in the ranks.
It's not a question of what he said; it's the method with which he chose to say it.
Just because we may agree with him doesn't mean he was right to do it.
Agger could quite easily have said all that in a team meeting; he is, after all, talking about his team-mates, so where is the need to say it publicly?
Absolutely nothing positive can come from such comments; it makes LFC look bad, and just puts Kenny and the team under more pressure.
Do you really think that John Henry will be happy to see open dissent in the media?
KD was doing mostly right things and decisions and people were not hiding their happyness but when he is missing out, people don't show their unger properely.
ReplyDeleteKD should know what kinds of player we trully need and GO GET THEM NO MATTER THE PRICE...
I couldnt disagree more with each & every point you have just made JK & here is why ...
ReplyDeleteAgger did not criticize any member of the club , he expressed our wounded pride & the regret we feel for letting our fans down , who traveled from all over Europe , his homeland included , to see us play , with a performance that is beneath us .
Agger criticized our unit , the unit he himself was a part of & I for one am delighted to see him step up & take responsibility .
Agger is our brother on the pitch & when Agger speaks we listen because we respect him , admire his playing talent & trust him .
In by gone days Souness , Tommy Smith , Ray Kennedy , or Grobbelar would have been throwing knuckles & busting heads in the dressing room after a result like that , Hansen would have lambasted each & everyone of their performances right in their face , Whelan would have cursed the house down while Aldo & McMahon would have been kicking doors & walls not far behind him & we won a lotta Titles with those characters in our squad .
Thankfully they never faced the circumstances Agger acknowledged but none of them would have lied to us after a poor performance , they would acknowledge it , apologize & prove their sincerity by not letting it happen again .
Acknowledging our performance , be it good or bad , is not equal to washing our dirty linen in public , in this case it was our Dane appologizing to the fans & letting us know that nobody within the squad is happy to let them down .
It is exactly "The Liverpool Way" & once again we are behaving like a family , through good times & in this case not so good times .
Agger has risen in my estimation this past season or so & if he keeps on like he is he could captain us in the near future .
I posted before about my opinions on what positions make the best captains & a domineering , commanding Centre Back was my second choice if we didnt have an outstanding midfielder to lead us .
Agger is only 27'ish , only entering his prime as a player & as an athlete , he is also maturing as a man & he is starting to vocalize that now .
I think its great leadership by Daniel .
Lets just hope he never has to kick us up the arse ever again in that way .
Yer bang on about Agger but the rest of yer comment was inaccurately harsh .
ReplyDeleteShe drones on a bit about it & I dont like it when womin stick their unwelcome beaks into Mens Sport but in this instance she is correct , in essence .
ReplyDeleteAgger has shown more passion in this interview than any of those other lot could muster in games and now he's being slated for it? lol.
ReplyDelete‘We have to win these types of games, no matter which kind of team we put out. We are Liverpool Football Club!"
Right, rep, let's fine him and kill his passion.
Inter Milan is interested in him so let him go and we still have Coates.
ReplyDeleteUp till now, LFC has been stuttering. I believe the fans are disappointed. So are some of the players and probably the new owners. It's about time to put a stop to that. Leave all "players of the future" on the bench and play the first 11. Only when LFC needs to substitute will the future players be thrown into the fray.LFC, YNWA.
ReplyDeleteIt's not a 'dirty laundry'. It is just admitting that the team underperformed. Dalglish himself said the quality of performance was unacceptable.
ReplyDeleteYou make a big deal out of nothing, Jamie. Agger is one of our most committed players, and he does not deserve being slated for a bit of a healthy driticism.
I don't think Agger is out of order at all here. I refers to all of them but referring to them as WE. The players needs to work up and start playing better than they did on Saturday otherwise we fooling ourselves to say we will finish in the top 4. We need to score goals as simple as that
ReplyDeletejust read the POLL. end of.
ReplyDeleteTalk about over dramatizing what Agger said. Run for the hills!
ReplyDeleteAgger also indirectly criticised specific members of the team with the following comment:"I think everyone was angry and disappointed, some more than others, but that is the way it is"
No he didn't, Like a bad journalist twisting words to suit his own viewpoint, and fanning flames that aren't there. I think Agger was fair in his assessment and said his point about what he saw and which i'm sure most of his team mates and liverpool would agree with, Liverpool weren't good enough, while also suggesting a greater team effort was needed to improve. He was asked a question by a journalist, and he gave an honest opinion. That's not negative, that's a man being realistic...no malice intended, just stating facts. "Headless Chickens"-i'm sure Charlie Adam cried himself to sleep on Saturday....wake up, these players aren't as sensitive as you or else they would've never made it this far in their careers. So for those who are affected-probably zero, they should organize a discussion session with a mediator (preferably a fully qualified consellor or better yet Yuri Gellar) and Daniel "snake tongue" Agger to come to some compromise and in future refrain from chicken calling. Might take time out from training but so what, important issues need addressing. To cut short this pointless activity, this is a non story...thanks for wasting my time Mister Soft
Brehon, feel free not to like it. I don't give a hoot. You keep slagging me off for daring to post on football because I am a woman. I never came across such an attitude even from the mancs.
ReplyDelete"Agger has only served to fan the flames of media
ReplyDeletenegativity towards LFC with his diatribe, and I can't see how anything
positive can come of what he's said."Jaime - you are aware that when you criticise somebody you are usual focusing on an aspect of your own behaviour.That above sentence is something you do on a daily basis.
For the 100th time: the nature of what Agger said is not the issue; I agree with his comments. However, calling your team-mates 'headless chickens' in public is totally unnecessary, and all it will achieve is fuel for a negative media fire against LFC.
ReplyDeleteAgger has just handed the media a label that they will now probably use for the rest of the season every time the team doesn't play well, or has a rough period of form.
Kenny's interview on saturday where he said the performance was unacceptable/poor etc was fine - be harsh in those terms, but personally slagging off your team-mates in public is not the way forward, and it is not good leadership in the slightest.
Find me one quote, or leadership book on the planet that advocates publicly slagging off your co-workers as a way of winning respect, or motivating and leading effectively.
By advocating Agger's stance, you are basically sticking two fingers up at Dalglish, who has repeatedly stated this season that the club conducts its business behind closed doors.
In the post-match press conference after the Swansea game, he was asked how Liverpool would deal with the poor performance, and again he said 'we'll deal with it behind closed doors'.
When KD says stuff like that, he is underlining the Liverpool way of doing things, and since he returned to Anfield, re-establishing the club's forgotten ideals has clearly been a major priority for him.
if people have been paying attention to KD's comments since he returned, his them tune has been: Togetherness; no divisions, and keep things in-house.
Agger has undermined everything KD has tried to do since returning, and it's amazing to me that so many people fail to acknowledge that, and actually argue that slagging off your team-mates in public is good leadership (!)
there is obviously a very clear difference: I don't work for LFC, and my comments are not reported by every media establishment under the sun.
ReplyDeleteIrrespective of what Brehon says, I just want to you know that your perspective on LFC is very welcome here.
ReplyDeleteDalglish is a Manager Who addresses team issues behind closed doors instead of publicy denigrating his players on press, something wich his precedessor Rafa like doing day by day. Kenny Dalglish knows Liverpool's way.
ReplyDeleteAgger blasted his team mates using the words "headless chickens", which can be considered offensive words. I do not think that Agger considers himself an headless chicken. I do not blame Agger's views but I think that the words He used in public to define his team mates were really unfair.
ReplyDeleteThere's a difference between saying the performance was unacceptable, and labelling your team-mates 'headless chickens'.
ReplyDeleteJust because a player is committed doesn't give them the right to invite negative media pressure on the club when the manager has been calling for unity and togetherness.
Also, I have no doubt that if it was someone like Maxi or some other less-popular player who said this, they would've been slated by the fans. Imagine if, for example, Ryan babel said this, or someone like Christian Poulsen. Cur fan vitriol like you've never seen.
Public criticism like this is only accepted by fans when it comes from players they like.
anyway guys,he said but then what?let his team mates including himself to prove those comments wrong on the pitch,that's going to help
ReplyDeleteAgger spoke like a captain. This is the kind of thing modern day winners like Roy keane, Paul Ince and Tony Adams use to say on occasion. We don't need this kind of thing to be said all of the time but Agger is obviously one of those who 'cares' so I applaud him. I wonder what camp Carroll is in.
ReplyDeleteThis article should be about Carroll walking up the tunnel when he was subbed. This is 10X more disrespectful.
what dirty laundry has he aired ? He has basically said that Liverpool didnt play well why is that airing dirty laundry ? he is just stating what 45000 people who watched saw with there own eyes. Its no secret ......... Liverpool didnt play well. If he had said Steve Clarke gave Henderson a right mouthful at half time, this would be stating things that are best kept inside the club and certainly would not need broadcasting publicly, can you see the difference Jaimie
ReplyDeletewhat a complete over-reaction to the post and the situation with Agger. Its true you just dont like him. Wonder if you would have raised it even if it had been Kuyt or someone else. You are very negatitive when discussing Agger
ReplyDeletegreat post keeping it real
ReplyDelete"Agger has shattered the illusion of unity at Anfield with his comments" is not exactly the most subtle of comments now is it ?
ReplyDeleteWhat happens in the dressing room should stay there but I for one hope that what Agger said reflects what the rest of the team is thinking. A bad performance happens and its good to see players ract to them in this way.
Kenny's comments this morning should tell you what he thinks of Aggerhttp://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/7297058/Agger-display-thrills-Dalglish
Players reacting to a poor performance is what you want to see, articles making something out of nothing is not.
YNWA
Don't like him? Nonsense. I treat every player the same; I don't form personal attachments or put players on pedestals like so many fans do. I don't know Agger so how can I dislike him? Show me one sentence in any article I've ever written that has the slightest personal context when discussing Agger. You should stop mistaking valid criticism (i.e his injury record) for personal attacks.
ReplyDeleteAnd Dirk Kuyt? I've probably written more critical articles about Kuyt than any other player so I'm not quite sure what your point is.
I think Agger is spot on with his actions. We are all glad he said and i would go a step further. Are you listening Carroll, Henderson, Downing., all KD's favourites?
ReplyDeleteKD certainly does not blames himself either but thinks that referees and goalpost should have the most blame.
ReplyDeleteJamie, I guarantee you that KD, when (and if - as I mightily doubt that anyone at all will ever question him about it) asked about the Agger's statement, will just confirm that Agger had the point, and the team will keep working and improving.
ReplyDeleteIt's a non-story, really. There is nothing that Agger said that can be used by the press against LFC. And it won't. Let's not drag the attention away from the more serious issues.
People will respect Agger's admitting the teams misperformance more than Downing's spineless "we will improve".
I dont slag you off for being a woman posting about football , I have met woman who were both tactically & technically excellent players & even decent coaches at pre adolescent level , however they hadnt a clue about Mens Football .
ReplyDeleteI simply point out that your perspective is inherently & constantly questionable if not outright inaccurate due to the fact you speak only from a females perspective about what is a MANS GAME !!!
I didnt ask you to expose yourself textually in public so I dont see how you can possibly have grounds for complaint when you find yourself treated as an equal .
Conversely, you could also argue that your perspective (and mine) is 'inherently and constantly questionable if not downright inaccurate' because we only speak from a male perspective.
ReplyDeleteBut we arent speaking about a females team in a female league run by females for females .
ReplyDeleteWe are men speaking about men ... unless theres something you would like to get off yer chest Arnie ?
tell me did you write this artical when Carra lambasts our performances etc. I have a feeling you just feel Agger doesnt have the right because you don't like him
ReplyDeletei dont see the harm in aggers points. he hasnt named any specific players & their individual performance, he mentions `we' as in team. Roy keane was critical of the utd players during his time as utd captain, it never done them any harm did it? i personally like to see players expressing some frustration & not singing the same tune like 'we need to do better' that most players come out with after a poor performance.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't think it's 'such a good idea', fair enough. It definitely isn't particularly helpful, I have to agree. But I'm a person who likes freeness of speech, expression & sporting talent; & it's also definitely counter-productive trying to denounce & reprimand any of those freedoms.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if you'll respond to what I thought about your statements of 'unity'? I will try & respond to your comments:
'* It creates a feeding frenzy for the press, who will now run with this story and make things sound as bad as possible.' I don't care less what the press say; what matters is how the team plays. '* KD will inevitably be asked about Agger's comments at the next press conference, which means the issue will drag on.' I think KD is definitely capable of dealing with the press, & I'd also refer to my previous comment.'* KD has stated on several occasions this season that he will 'not allow divisions at the club'; he has also repeatedly stressed the need for togetherness. How do Agger's comments promote 'togetherness'?' True, they don't, but does that mean EVERY time ANY player does ANYTHING which doesn't promote that, they should be fined & dropped?'* The LFC way of doing things is to solve problems behind closed doors, and not wash dirty linen in public.' I would say the only way to fix any such problem, is in the way the football is played, not in what people have say.
'* It's possible that one or two players may take exception to Agger's insinuations, which may lead to further disunity in the ranks.' Seriously, if players take exception, I would say: "grow up & play football!" Again, things that PEOPLE SAY, espcially after a game has finished, make no difference to the football being played. & then again, you try to infer 'disunity' - how can unity be quantified; as though we could have 'more or less' of it?
What specific unity are you referring to; that of the playing squad, amongst those coaching, that of the managment structure including the board, or perhaps only that shown by the team on the pitch? When you make allegations of disunity at Anfield, it's only reasonable to say exactly how you think it could have an affect, if you can see what I mean
Jaimie, think you are swimming against the current on this one ! Nearly 90% of the voters think the boy done good !
ReplyDeleteAs I've already stated, I treat every player the same; if you look through the archives you will see that I don't have favourites. And perhaps you should've done your research first - here are two articles where I've highlighted Carra's public negativity (and there are more)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.liverpool-kop.com/2008/02/jamie-carragher-is-supposed-to-be-one.html
http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2008/02/liverpools-winning-mentality-has-been.html
Don't accuse me of having a personal problem with Agger; I don't. Perhaps you should be less emotive about the issue and try and look at things more objectively.
Nice to be appreciated, cheers, RRM
ReplyDeleteWhether he said 'we' and included himself in the criticism is not really relevant...not really relevent! What are you smoking? It is at the heart of the matter. He is not attcking any team mate he is making a statement about the collective. When you see the difference then you will see that YOU and YOU alone are the only one over reacting.It creates a feeding frenzy for the press, who will now run with this story and make things sound as bad as possible...a feeding frenzy by the press is what happened with the sale of the club. I dont see this happening. You have lost all sense of perspective. Nobody has been murdered.'KD will inevitably be asked about Agger's comments at the next press conference, which means the issue will drag on...so what? A question by a journalist. Big deal. They may even ask why Liverpool played so badly this weekend. Really drag on? You clutching at straws.KD has stated on several occasions this season that he will 'not allow divisions at the club'; he has also repeatedly stressed the need for togetherness. . How do Agger's comments promote 'togetherness'? I think they promote togetherness. It says: WE played like headless chickens lets pull together, play like a team, work for each other etc etc etc If you can't see that. Sorry for you!The LFC way of doing things is to solve problems behind closed doors, and not wash dirty linen in public...what is dirty laundry about saying WE played like headless chickens?It's possible that one or two players may take exception to Agger's insinuations, which may lead to further disunity in the ranks...it Ãs possible my mother may be a man. So what? It is also possible some of the players will take a long hard look at themselves...the possibilities are endless.Do you really think that John Henry will be happy to see open dissent splashed all over the the media...open dissent! Wow that is pushing the truth. At this rate all the players will be able to say is: Yes sir no sir three bags full.if it's such a good idea, should all Liverpool players now come out and slag each other off publicly? Is that a dignified way to proceed?..slagg off, undignified? I certainly don't see this us undignified or slagging off.Carrol is a chop. Saurez a racist etc etc etc. That is slagging off and undignified.
ReplyDeleteDead right !!
ReplyDeleteRe unity, I'm referring to KD's comments at almost every press conference this season. He's repeatedly stated that everyone is together at the club; how there's no divisions at the club; how he won't allow divisions to be created etc. KD has created an 'illusion' of unity with his rhetoric about everyone sticking together.
ReplyDeleteOf course, you will not always have complete unity behind the scenes, but in order to be successful, you also have to project an image of success, and that means everyone pulling together.
When a player breaks ranks and calls his team-mates 'headless chickens' in public, that is an example of unity in the playing ranks breaking down. It allows people to question the togetherness of the squad, and it creates needless negative pressure on the team.
It also undermines the manager, who has been preaching all season about everyone being together, and no divisions etc.
I don't see how you can't see this to be honest. It's not like I've revealed some complex secret; whe one member of a team breaks from the group and says something exceedingly negative in public about the rest of the team, it is always an example of disunity (IMO).
Agger could quite easily have made his comments in a team meeting on face-to face basis. The whole team could've had a massive blowout clearing the air. Instead, he made his comments in public, which only has a positive effect in the minds of fans.
Give me one example of public criticism of players/managers etc over the last few years that has yielded anything positive. In the last couple of years, we had quite few examples of managers and players speaking out negatively; did Liverpool's form improve? Not in the slightest. All that happened was an irremovable atmosphere of negativity consumed the club, and that was only lifted when KD arrived and began preaching about...unity, togetherness and keeping problems in-house (i.e. trying to establish the Liverpool Way)
In some ways, we're back at square one again; right back in the Benitez era where public back-biting was the norm. And what makes it worse is that fans condone it.
What this poll proves above all is that the Liverpool Way is well and truly dead.
Let's have a free for all! Apparently, it's okay for players to slag off their team-mates in public! Well, I think every player should do that from now. Why not? It's what the fans want.
Well done Daniel Agger. At least someone has had the balls to speak up about that performance. I'd rather the players acknowledge it was dire than continued silence. I think your being ridiculous Jamie in saying Agger should be fined. To be honest, Reina's autobiography is a heck of alot more controversial than Agger's comments. If anything, what Agger said should give the boys a kick up the backside and improve their game. Just because we are Liverpool FC, it doesn't mean we should remain quiet 24/7. Well done Agger!
ReplyDeleteLike that is definitive proof of something ?
ReplyDeleteThat only proves that his opinion is less popular among those who cast a vote on this niche site .
Sheesh , talk about over simplification & herd mentality .
So Kenny Dalglish describing the performance as 'unacceptable' and 'poor' was not evidence of someone 'speaking up'?!
ReplyDeleteWhat about the raft of ex-players who have also been blunt with their assessment of the Swansea game; did they not speak up?
You're basically sticking two fingers up at Dalglish, Paisley, Shankly et al, who were all strong proponents of the Liverpool Way, i.e. keeping things behind closed doors. And why? Because you agree with what a player said about a game?!
Why don't you separate the substance of what was said from the method? The basic question here is whether it is okay to severely criticise your team-mates in public, and you and others believe it is the right thing to do, irrespective of the negative publicity it creates.
That to me is concerning, and it shows that fans haven't learned a thing from the Benitez/Hicks/Gillett era.
I've asked this question many times on this thread and no one has answered it: if 5 other players came out tomorrow and slagged of their team-mates in a similar manner, you presumably would support that too, right?
If not, why not?
As I said earlier, if it was a less popular player than Agger making the comments, he would've been crucified. Fans only accept public criticism like this if it's made by one of their favourites.
The hilarious irony of this is that lots of fans slag off ex-players for very saying similar things (!)
No, stupid, it was observation that on this particular issue Jaimie is in a minority !
ReplyDeleteWhat else is new? ;-)
ReplyDeleteAgger said of Hodgson: "The manager's philosophy is that we play football in attack, but not at the back. That's not my style.
ReplyDelete“I'm not that type of player. I like to keep the ball on the ground,
and that's what I'll keep doing. Time will show if he [Hodgson] doesn't
want to play me because of that".
"I'll try to change myself, but I will never be a player who offloads the ball at every opportunity."
"I'll fight for my chance. I know what I stand for, and I think he [Hodgson] does too".
Agger is isn't quoted often but when something goes against his principles he's normally on the money. I backed Agger when he came out and said this and I back him now. Modern footballers are all robotic shearer, Gerrard and Owen types with their robotic media trained one size fits all responses. Agger is only guilty of displaying a little personality and conviction.
Yea like to be a minority is a bad thing ?
ReplyDeleteAccording to your farm yard intelligence we should all be speaking Chinese & living under Chinese law because we are all in a minority compared to them .
Even so , where is he posting ?
On a minority , Niche interest site .
Who Is he in a minority compared to within that site ?
Only those visitors to that site who could be bothered to vote .
So according to your Farm Yard Intelligence , that because they could be bothered to cast a vote after visiting a minority niche interest site that some how they are intellectually superior to him .
That attitude is very dangerous & it sickens me because it strengthens the argument for both Nuclear Armament & the necessity for nuclear warfare .
Smarten up .
Good point about the Robotic Englishmen but I think he should have been fined for his comments about Hodgen because it was airing dirty linen in public , admirable that he has principles but still & all he should have been fined .
ReplyDeleteI for one think its great to come out and say what the whole team are feeling at this point. I think it will spur us on to play better. You speak about our team as having an "Illusion of Unity" as if its some frail figment of our imagination.
ReplyDeleteNowhere have I suggested that what Agger did was 'positive' - but it's impossible to run a sporting institution such as LFC & expect absolutely EVERYTHING associated with such a huge organisation to be either definitively 'postive' or 'negative'. You simply cannot ban anything & everything negative; to try & suggest this is patently ridiculous!
ReplyDeleteRegarding illusions, I would say what is needed is absolute reality; & anyone who doesn't ascribe to that idea should not be at LFC.
You also mention 'examples of managers & players speaking out negatively' in connection with Liverpool's form. This could be a reference to Rafa Benitez here, & if it is, he happens to be the most successful Manager at LFC during the PL era; & in the Club's best PL season, he said those things labelled as a 'rant'; after which Liverpool went on their best points & goals scored average run for many years. Was Rafa 'washing dirty linen' in public or being 'negative'? Personally, I don't think so, though others may disagree.
Some may argue that what's happened at Man City this season has had plenty of negativity; but they have consistently played the most outstanding football seen this season - that's because football has got nothing to do with what players say, but everything to do with the way they play.
To paint Dagger as a man 'breaking rank'; creating 'division, & undermining the manager', is going too far. What the players should do is go & PLAY in a way that proves they're not 'like headless chickens'! & I just don't give a damn what the press say - what I care about is how the team PLAYS!
P.S. Youre overdoing it once again Jaimie.
ReplyDeleteP.P.S. People he doesnt give a stuff what he actually says anyway because he is getting you all here on his site so he gets what he wants. Churning out controversial stuff to get reaction is his style. Im just wondering if he should be more responsible, journalistically speaking.
ReplyDeleteThis whole article is hilarious. Is there anything inaccurate in what agger said? Does he shirk blame? Does he single out anyone? He's just standing up and saying that the teams performances aren't good enough. And lets face it, he's right. Liverpool are level on points with Arsenal,
ReplyDeleteNo he doesn't. He's just standing up and saying what should be perfectly obvious to even a one eyed fan. This is not about saving face, this isn't about keeping a brave face on for the media. This is a player saying that current performances aren't good enough, the players are the ones to blame, and they need to pull up their socks.
if more liverpool players had this attitude, and acted on it, it wouldn't be over 20 years since liverpool won a league. Roy keane used to come out like this after every CL exit for man utd, and put it up to his teammates. I seem to remember it working very well, up until the point where he went against his manager's wishes, questioned his judgement, and picked out individuals.
I mean things obviously aren't working very well. The football is frequently tough to watch. Luis suarez was the most prolific forward in europe in 2009-10, scoring 55 goals in 59 games for club and country. Now he has two goals from his last 40 shots over 8 league games. Liverpool's entire attacking strategy seems to be give the ball to luis suarez and wait for him to do something magical, so he has to beat three players to shoot or do something completely spectacular, rather than work opportunities for him nearer to goal.
we're nearly a third of the way through the season, and newcastle have shown liverpool what can be done if you buy the right players, for the right price, and drill them as a unit. They have cut costs, moved towards financial stability and shot up the table like a missile. Sure they're not going to stay there, but that's because their squad isn't big enough. If they had the budget at liverpool's disposal, then they'd have a fighting chance.
If these comments have any major positive impact, it will be to open the eyes of a lot of liverpool fans, to the fact that not everything is rosy, but should reassure them that the players are aware of this and care about things.
OF course he is correct. About time these issues are addressed. How long can we keep on taking this. it has been 21 years and millions of millions have been spent without achieving.
ReplyDeleteEvery body chill out just wait till Jamie carragher comes back..we'll win and score more goals
ReplyDeleteAgger said "we played like headless chickens" can some one explain to me how that is slagging your team mates off.
ReplyDeletejust want to know when "we" became every body else except me. All the players should come out and say we played crap, because they did.
any player, barring suarez, was to turn round and say they thought they played well as an individual, then I would be worried, because that would start devisions in the squad.
Everybody knows we did not play well which is a fact, the media will milk it like they always do, like the next interview will go something like this, "well Mr. Adams, what do you think about Agger calling you a headless chicken"
Just because the media like to miss quote, or put a spin (lie) on someones quote, does that mean you should say nothing? I think all journalist should be sued every time they miss quote or put a spin (Lie) on something. that would get rid of the ones who have no integrity then there would not be a problem.
I wonder if Agger was merely directing the blame for the draw at the players rather than the manager, and also ensuring it was collective responsibility rather than individuals who should shoulder this blame. Well said young man.
ReplyDeleteSensationalist tripe.....again, I'm afraid.
ReplyDeleteYes, He publici blames referees and goalpost, and He's totally right because the threatment towards Liverpool's been evry unfair and irrespectful.
ReplyDeleteIm glad you said that redredman as jamie tends to be the only one to have an honest opinion. I think Jamie does more damage with these articles than other media outlet. IMO.
ReplyDeletewe all spend alot of money to follow the red men,they earn alot of money although we earn a pitence to what these lads do if we were as bad at are jobs as they have been we wouldnt be worried about what one of are mates said we would be looking for a new job and no one pays a lot of hard earned money to watch us.if they bothered about what agger said lucky they not playing for shanks
ReplyDeleteI would rather hear Agger be honest and put everyone in their place than Downing coming out and insisting we have to start scoring after every match yet still extend his no scoring run since he was bought.
ReplyDeleteWhen players come out saying they have to start doing what they are paid to do but go out on the pitch and under perform is akin to treating fans like dimwits who do not realise players are supposed to score and prevent the other team from scoring against them.
If Suarez was saying this you can understand because of his contribution but why do players have to be heard rather than seen beats me. It also seems like Liverpool players speak to the media more than other teams or maybe I just notice because I follow the reds.
Well done to Daniel Agger for speaking out and airing his frustrations. He is one of the main players at Anfield now and surely carries respect at Anfield. He was obviously frustrated by our performance and knows we can do so much better.He was only reinstating what we had all seen whats theres nothing wrong with that. Andy Carrol is a prime example of a headless chicken its about time he woke up to fact he is playing for LFC.
ReplyDeleteFFirst no one is allowed to criticise KK and now the team is off limits too...soon we'll have to sing praises of KK even when we lose. reason why people find issue is because its Henderson..downing..Adam ..Carroll..who are the headless chicks and everybody else is doing their jobs
ReplyDeletejaimie every time i read one of your coloums you always sound negative to me, or and by the way what is printing it on the internet that is making it public in my books. well said Agger some of these players that put on the red shirt nead a reality check not just pick up they'r pay check
ReplyDeleteRight. I'm negative for arguing that the Liverpool Way should be upheld, but Agger is negative about his team-mates and that's okay. I think you need to get some perspective.
ReplyDeleteLooks like Coates is going to step up in January because it looks like Aggers gonna go to Inter, and he's starting to show impatience with the clubs direction.
ReplyDeleteAnyone think Bobby Zamora would be a good target man for Liverpool? I watched him few times this season and I've been surprisingly impressed. He has good ball control, good first touch and holds it up well, his link up play isn't bad at all.
ReplyDeleteThe role Carroll was purchased for, I guarantee you Zamora would do a better job. Also, Carroll could learn from watching Zamora. More importantly we could pick him up on the cheap.
Probably some of you will be laughing at this post, i suggest just watch Zamora play for Fulham next time they play and you might just see what I mean.
I don't see the issue here. Agger is only stating the obvious. Liverpool players behead themselves whenever they chase goals under pressure. They lack calm composure in the midfield which in turn affects the strikers. I've said the same thing about them before. Notice that these British players are finding it hard to cope with the domestic pressure of the fans instead of the foreign ones who just get on with it.
ReplyDeleteAdam disappeared in the second half, either he is unfit or he just doesn't know how to cope with pressure. Agger and Skrytl were forced to make runs with the ball past Adam who wasn't even bothered in the second half.
Downing just proves how much he cannot kick it up a notch consistently.
Henderson is getting ruined in his RW position.
Enrique is the only player to even take pressure in a stride when Liverpool seek a goal although he was wasteful in that one opportunity to find someone.
Carroll caused all this ruckus by missing his chance.
Not to mention that Agger was a headless chicken himself for missing an open header.
And finally Suarez is left standing there thinking that he is surrounded by headless chickens.
The writings on the wall. And this interview by Agger isn't going to multiply negative thoughts about Liverpool but take peoples heads out of the clouds.
I think Kenny will understand that Agger is the type of player that wants to play good attractive fooball that is worthy of the Liverpool shirt. He came out and said some bad comments about Hodgson in the past for this same reason. Dalglish knows he is one of the best defenders around in the Premiership who is good defending as well as controlling the ball. Whether it is behind closed doors or not, every Liverpool fan already knows that we played like "headless chickens" against Swansea.
ReplyDeleteJamie unfortunately u have lost the plot, everybody agrees with the the principal you are presenting, but the practice doesn't stack up, Daniel wasn't denigrating anyone he was taking collective responsibility and he shud be rewarded, he has been brilliant and he was 100% correct. We were worse than terrible.
ReplyDeletei take my hat off to agger, well said, a good kick up the arse is wats needed for most of them. least agger plays well most the time hes fit. the press would only write worse anyway. liverpool deserve to be ripped when we play like that, its not good enough. some of these players actually have ambition like agger, so it must be really frustrating when your team mate is playing shite. agger good lad, hope you get another interview next time were bad
ReplyDeleteWell put..shame kk messed up in the transfers otherwise we would have been up there
ReplyDeleteJaimie, why don't you take a look, at how the voting is going???.
ReplyDeleteWhat's your point? I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion; the issue is one that's worthy of debate, which is why I posed the question. If everyone thinks Agger was right to say what he did publicly then that's fine.
ReplyDeleteTwo points Jaimie..
ReplyDelete1. You talk about Agger creating negative publicity, well I don't know where you have been lately but popular topics relating to LFC include 'Suarez the Racist' and 'Suarez the diver' so maybe this will give them something else to talk about.
2. There is nothing worse after a shit performance like Saturday's than going onto the LFC website and reading headlines like 'Kenny hails Downing', 'Downing hails Hendo', 'Hendo hails kenny' blah blah fucking blah.
Headless chickens is exactly how I would describe our performance on Saturday but I wouldn't like to be racist towards headless chickens ;) Watching Liverpool right now is excruciatingly painful and I don't give a shit how many chances we create. If you can't control a game in midfield against Swansea, Norwich, Wolves etc.. then your team is not worth a fuck and tactics are sadly lacking.
Take a box Dagger for telling it like it is for a change, just like he did last year when he told everyone Roy was a hoof merchant. Why isn't he captain??
Agger is in my mind the real leader of that team! Who else was going to say it? Lucas!!!! for me he's not one of the leaders! And his lack of Athleticism and pace let little Swansea run all over us in midfield.
ReplyDeleteI'm happy Agger he took the lead!
I think you've taken offence at this a little too easily. You've only looked at what he's said from a negative viewpoint and missed what was probably the message. It sounded more like a rallying cry than anything, and I think that's the way most supporters will see it. It's a little bit cynical to be criticising him when he's only spoken his view and qualified how the team must change to do better.
ReplyDeleteThe side needs a kick up the backside. Love Kenny to bits but he has held the team's hand for too long (until after this game!). Agger was right to say what he said. It's all well and good saying 'keep it behind closed doors...the Liverpool way' but it was there to see - poor performance. The team needs to wake up and take responsibility. He's not slagging people off directly he is slagging the team's overall performance off. And if it makes players step up and prove a point - good. It's a wake up call: continue playing like that and no champion's league - simple. Or as Rafa would say: 'fact'!
ReplyDeletesometimes a slap on the wrist is not enough...sometimes to make some people realise the mistakes they do u should slap their face (literally or not doesnt matter). there is absolotely noway kk is going to buy british players for inflated price any more...so i say give more time and i totally agree with agger..his comment was like a slap on the face...something LFC need right now
ReplyDeleteRight now we are lacking leaders on the pitch.
ReplyDeleteI believe his frustration was really with that fact that we were playing at home and it should have been an definite win. His message is a wake-up call to everyone who was playing.
Also, we should consider making him Captain.....
Jamie , If you are performing well and you criticize your team , it is acceptable.
ReplyDeleteIf you are not performing well and you got the balls to criticize the team it is not acceptable .
If downing came out and criticize the team everyone would boil.
Now its agger and its ok .
I would like to change your style of saying it.
Public criticism like this is only accepted by fans when it comes from players that performs well.
clown
ReplyDeletewe drew 4 games at Anfield we were supposed 2 win easily. Sunderland,Man united(coz of the team they put out), Norwich and Swasea. we are losing our own ground.
ReplyDeleteStorm.
ReplyDeleteTeacup.
Mate the manager can sign players on merit, it is up to the players to perform when given the chance! some of these players mentioned are for the future.
ReplyDeleteMate are you serious, did you actually say that? Is it that you are repressed bad childhood, mother that kind of thing? Mate you take males back 50 years.
ReplyDeletePoint Proven lol
ReplyDeleteMate i cant stand you are you really this sad?
ReplyDeleteDrop Agger for carra?? g whizz 2 clean sheets in a row anyone? Coincidence? I think not! Its amazing hw much easier it is to defend without someone shouting like a mad man all the time. Carra has been great but time to move on. He is always panting for breath and hoofing aimlessly! Causes us to play too deeper which hampers our pass and move approach. He seems more focussed on trying to prove he is a manager these days anyway. Disrespecting managenemt when telling players what to do and where to do it, telling subs to buy time, yelling at Soto to hurry on from the bench, telling lucas to play at RB. He is right at times but it comes accross disrespectful to management and players.
ReplyDeleteAgger is right half this team are crap!
ReplyDelete