Jordan Henderson has had a difficult start to his Liverpool career, with many fans - myself included - feeling a little underwhelmed by his performances so far. Obviously, it will take time for the player to adapt, and as Lucas said yesterday, he will 'probably show his best form if we don't rush him'. However, I just don't see where Henderson is going to fit into the team, either now or in the future, which could mean that despite his ability, he's destined for failure at Anfield.
Right now, Henderson is a man without a position, and it's clear from watching him play that he's unsure of his role in the team, which has contributed to his inability to impose himself on games.
We keep hearing that Henderson is 'one for the future', but when that future arrives, and after the bedding-in period is over, where will he be playing, and at whose expense?
Central midfield?
I just don't see how this is going to be possible. Liverpool have Charlie Adam, Lucas and Steven Gerrard vying for places there, and Henderson is not better than any of those three in their respective roles.
Gerrard recently said he has 4-5 years still to play at the top level, and if - as seems likely - he plays out his career in a central midfield role, this will reduce the possibility of Henderson playing there even more. Similarly, Adam and Lucas are in their mid-20s, so they have years of playing time ahead of them.
If Henderson has actually been brought in to replace Steven Gerrard, then he's going to have a long time to wait, and you don't spend a reported £18m on a player to keep them as a bit-part player and/or back-up central midfielder...do you?
Right-midfield?
If the plan is to do a Dirk Kuyt and convert him into a full-time right-midfielder/winger, then that would be disappointing, and arguably detrimental to the balance of the team.
Henderson is not an effective right midfielder for Liverpool, and the idea of having him playing there for the next ten years doesn't inspire any real confidence. Furthermore, Liverpool should surely have a specialist right-mid/winger for that role, not a square peg in a round hole, and the club could've found one for the reported £18m splashed out on Henderson.
When you look at Liverpool's other new signings, it's immediately clear where they fit in: Enrique = left back. Adam = Central Midfield playmaker. Downing = Winger. Coates = Central defender etc. Henderson = ?
It seems to me that Liverpool brought in Henderson without really knowing how he's going to fit into the team, and we're already seeing how that can be a problem. The more Henderson puts in underwhelming performances whilst ostensibly playing out position, the more his confidence will probably drop, and that will be no good for anyone, least of all him.
He will also be acutely aware that he's keeping proven, experienced players like Bellamy and Kuyt out of the team, and with Kuyt recently voicing his frustration at being dropped (who can blame him after 14 goals and 7 assists last season), the pressure on Henderson to perform will only increase.
There doesn't seem to be any real plan in place to effectively manage Henderson's integration into the team; it's clearly been a case of 'play him every game and hope for the best'.
In my view, the club has (unwittingly) set Henderson up to fail, and if he continues to be used the way he is now, he *will* fail. And as a result of this mismanagement of the player, fans are constantly on his back, the pressure is at boiling point, and one of the club's most consistent, hard-working and loyal players has been alienated.
The club needs to take a step back and reassess Henderson's role in the team. He's only 21 - what's the rush? Henderson shouldn't be starting every game, especially not at the expense of players who are more suited to playing the role he's been given.
With Steven Gerrard returning, something had to give in the team, and it should be Henderson that makes way. Take him out of the limelight, take the pressure off and let him build up confidence from the bench.
It's not a question of ability - no player will prosper if they are played out of position and/or are unsure of their role in the team.
Having said all that, the question that still needs to be answered is this: where exactly does Henderson fit into the team long-term?
Obviously I want Henderson to succeed, but at the moment, I can't see the answer to that question, which is why I fear the money paid by the club could end up being wasted.
If that happens, it won't be Henderson's fault though - it will be the club's fault for buying a player and (seemingly) not knowing how and where he actually fits in.
IMPORTANT: If you leave a comment, stick to debating the issues. *Any* comments that attack the person and not the argument will be deleted. Repeated offenders will be banned.
Jaimie Kanwar
Right now, Henderson is a man without a position, and it's clear from watching him play that he's unsure of his role in the team, which has contributed to his inability to impose himself on games.
We keep hearing that Henderson is 'one for the future', but when that future arrives, and after the bedding-in period is over, where will he be playing, and at whose expense?
Central midfield?
I just don't see how this is going to be possible. Liverpool have Charlie Adam, Lucas and Steven Gerrard vying for places there, and Henderson is not better than any of those three in their respective roles.
Gerrard recently said he has 4-5 years still to play at the top level, and if - as seems likely - he plays out his career in a central midfield role, this will reduce the possibility of Henderson playing there even more. Similarly, Adam and Lucas are in their mid-20s, so they have years of playing time ahead of them.
If Henderson has actually been brought in to replace Steven Gerrard, then he's going to have a long time to wait, and you don't spend a reported £18m on a player to keep them as a bit-part player and/or back-up central midfielder...do you?
Right-midfield?
If the plan is to do a Dirk Kuyt and convert him into a full-time right-midfielder/winger, then that would be disappointing, and arguably detrimental to the balance of the team.
Henderson is not an effective right midfielder for Liverpool, and the idea of having him playing there for the next ten years doesn't inspire any real confidence. Furthermore, Liverpool should surely have a specialist right-mid/winger for that role, not a square peg in a round hole, and the club could've found one for the reported £18m splashed out on Henderson.
When you look at Liverpool's other new signings, it's immediately clear where they fit in: Enrique = left back. Adam = Central Midfield playmaker. Downing = Winger. Coates = Central defender etc. Henderson = ?
It seems to me that Liverpool brought in Henderson without really knowing how he's going to fit into the team, and we're already seeing how that can be a problem. The more Henderson puts in underwhelming performances whilst ostensibly playing out position, the more his confidence will probably drop, and that will be no good for anyone, least of all him.
He will also be acutely aware that he's keeping proven, experienced players like Bellamy and Kuyt out of the team, and with Kuyt recently voicing his frustration at being dropped (who can blame him after 14 goals and 7 assists last season), the pressure on Henderson to perform will only increase.
There doesn't seem to be any real plan in place to effectively manage Henderson's integration into the team; it's clearly been a case of 'play him every game and hope for the best'.
In my view, the club has (unwittingly) set Henderson up to fail, and if he continues to be used the way he is now, he *will* fail. And as a result of this mismanagement of the player, fans are constantly on his back, the pressure is at boiling point, and one of the club's most consistent, hard-working and loyal players has been alienated.
The club needs to take a step back and reassess Henderson's role in the team. He's only 21 - what's the rush? Henderson shouldn't be starting every game, especially not at the expense of players who are more suited to playing the role he's been given.
With Steven Gerrard returning, something had to give in the team, and it should be Henderson that makes way. Take him out of the limelight, take the pressure off and let him build up confidence from the bench.
It's not a question of ability - no player will prosper if they are played out of position and/or are unsure of their role in the team.
Having said all that, the question that still needs to be answered is this: where exactly does Henderson fit into the team long-term?
Obviously I want Henderson to succeed, but at the moment, I can't see the answer to that question, which is why I fear the money paid by the club could end up being wasted.
If that happens, it won't be Henderson's fault though - it will be the club's fault for buying a player and (seemingly) not knowing how and where he actually fits in.
IMPORTANT: If you leave a comment, stick to debating the issues. *Any* comments that attack the person and not the argument will be deleted. Repeated offenders will be banned.
Jaimie Kanwar
"It seems to me that Liverpool brought in Henderson without really knowing how he's going to fit into the team"
ReplyDelete--
Exactly. And also I don't know what the people responsible for transfers saw in him that they thought was worth 18 m.
wow, utter nonsense
ReplyDelete£20 million?????????please show the facts of this price paid!, you are trying to judge a player after 7 games ffs get a grip!
ReplyDeleteWhy is it nonsense? That's not a counter-argument. Please advance your reasons why you disagree.
ReplyDeletePS. Any further comments like that will be deleted.
the new arrival perform only when he is better to existing when, Unfortunately existing one's are far superior to him in quality threfore, whenever he get chance in the team resentment prevails. Even who sent on loan (Cole and Aqualani) were far better than him. In order to come in first eleven he need to earn his place. But in liverpool team he is playing for the choice of manager. therefore, the player on bench (Ballmey, Kuyt and Spearing) which are far better than him are feeling let down. If kenny wishes to remove this resentment from the squad than let him to earn his place instead of imposing him. I think in current squad he is a person who must be placed before Gerrard, Kuyt, Ballmey, Spering etc .
ReplyDeleteAre you a Liverpool Fan ?
ReplyDeleteAs this artical seems to be a hatchet job.
The Central pairing of Lucas and adam in my opinion has not been that brillant so far this season, some variation on that pairing including Spearing and Henderson would seem more than likley at some point
Replace "the club" with "Kenny Dalglish" and this article will make more sense.
ReplyDeleteeh
ReplyDeleteHatchet job? Nonsense. This is a valid issue for discussion and I've outlined my thinking clearly. And if you read it properly, you will see that I am 100% on Henderson's side.
ReplyDeleteI agree with sirbob
ReplyDelete"It seems to me that Liverpool brought in Henderson without really knowing how he's going to fit into the team"
That is a ridiculous statement. Jaimie I find that you often over simplify the game and what goes on behind closed doors. We are talking about experts, sure sometimes they get it wrong, but to suggest that they spend 20M with no plan is silly. Just becasue Gerrard says he wants to play 4-5 years does not mean it will happen. You must have been one of the fans slating lucas week in and week out. I cannot believe that after 7 games you are making such harsh judgements.
"We keep hearing that Henderson is 'one for the future', but when that future arrives, and after the bedding-in period is over, where will he be playing, and at whose expense?
ReplyDeleteCentral midfield?
I just don't see how this is going to be possible. Liverpool have Charlie Adam, Lucas and Steven Gerrard vying for places there, and Henderson is not better than any of those three in their respective roles. "Yeah you are 100% for him!!
Call yourself a liverpool fan.... It's people like you that are ramping up the pressure on the lad. He's here to learn off Gerrard and evetually succeed him. Unfortunately Gerards injury may be worse than we all feared and you have no idea how many games or years he has left, only kk does and I doubt he'd be publicising the fact, so back off you div.
ReplyDeleteRight - any person posting stuff questioning whether I am a Liverpool fan will have their comment deleted. Debate the issues, not the person, and if you can't do that, don't bother commenting.
ReplyDeleteArabee - what 'harsh judgment' have I made? I'm asking a legitimate question, which is 'where does Henderson fit into the team? Why don't you answer that question instead of misunderstanding where I'm coming from?
ReplyDeletePeople may not want to ask that question but it is one that needs to be addressed.
So Henderson is being written off after such a short spell at the club. He's better off as a box-to-box midfielder, he's got loads of stamina, maybe if played there, people can judge him better. As for the price, £16m plus add-ons. But is it his fault Sunderland wouldn't sell till they got that price? Give him a chance and judge him after a season. Then we'll see.
ReplyDeleteFuck off back to Manchester and take your crap articals with you
ReplyDeleteWell Jaimie hes been playing on the right side of midfield so i guess that's where he fits in, saying he doesn't fit in the pos hes been playing for the last 7 games (his first 7) is in my opinion harsh. If he had played well for these 7 games you would not be saying what you are, thereofre you are judging him harshly
ReplyDeleteAmazing. People really are incapable of seeing the wood for the trees. Clearly, I was wrong about Liverpool fans having the intelligence to see the real issues and discuss them.
ReplyDeleteI have not 'written him off' - that's a ridiculous statement. I've looked into where Henderson will fit in the future. Anyway, I can't be bothered to waste time arguing with people who can't be objective, so I'm locking comments for this thread.
LOL Jaimie K - EPIC FAIL mate, EPIC FAIL. Your artical has flaws on the basis that hes played only a handful of games for this club and to suggest the club just randomly went out and purchased any player that we could not fit into the squad is complete rubbish. Grow up and instead of insulting people who have come on to read this tosh suggesting they lack intelligence because you can't write articals, just don't write them in the first place and you'll be laughin' kidda.
ReplyDeleteJJ
He's destined to fail if the plan is to use him as a wide-man full time, as he clearly does not have the instincts or traits to fulfil that role to a high level. However, he does have the traits to be a very good central midfielder. He moves the ball quickly, has good technical ability and has the size and pace (but not yet the strength or defensive instincts) to be a very effective in a box to box role.
ReplyDeleteIt's a squad game and Dalglish has erred in throwing Henderson straight into the first team rather than letting him earn his place with a succession of good performances from the bench, but I'd be very comfortable with him filling in for Adam or Gerrard in central midfield (not behind the striker though!).
Btw Jamie - The furore over Henderson keeping Kuyt out of the team strikes me as slightly hypocritical though, seeing as you were one of the guys that (rightly imo) criticised Kuyt's role on the right on numerous occassions.
Henderson has played on the right for Sunderland he might have played only 7 times for us but he has over 70 apperances for Sunderland in the Premier League
ReplyDeleteand is no beginner. Should try and do something with the ball instead of passing backwards run forward with it and have shot like Downing does or get some crosses in link the play going forward like Enrique .
Jaimie, I wonder why you subject yourself to a tirade of angry posts day in day out. After reading your site for a while, I have change my mind and I actually DO think you are a Liverpool supporter, albeit one who just loves arguments. Wouldnt your time be better spent, I dont know, down at the pub watching the footy on weekends, and on a REAL job during the week? Just a thought. Thats it from me, im done with this site, its sole purpose is to rile people up. And even if you delete this I know you'll have read it, so nyah nyah nyah :P
ReplyDeleteThe funny thing is when proven wrong (Jamie) he choses to delete and block people from writing comments.
ReplyDeleteBtw in relation to your other articles in which you seem to use stats to 'prove' wether a player is good or not is utter rubbish. You simply cannot rely on stats to make stupid arguements for example when glen johnson plays, liverpool only win X % of games. It is utter crap and you use nonsensical 'arguements' to prove your theories.
I think this article is premature and would have greater validity if it was written two or even three years after the young man's arrival. The same analysis above could be applied to Lucas's role when Alonso and Mascherano were at the club. My view is that Jordan will benefit from playing alongside and competing with experienced players. In the meantime, let's just hope we don't see a return of the vile booing of our own players that Lucas suffered.
ReplyDeleteFact is centre midfield is a tough position and takes time and maturity to master - even the prodigy Gerrard would agree with this, just look at the run around Viera gave him in 2001 when he was er.. the same age as Henderson. Henderson is long-term, and I'm prepared to allow the lad time to develop and demonstrate his ability and worth, and I hope that's the view of most fans.
Arabee - the fact that he hasn't played well on the right is proof that he doesn't fit in there, is it not? Are you saying that Henderson should be a right-mid for his whole Liverpool career? Is that the club's plan?
ReplyDeleteIf not, and the plan is to play him at CM, when will this happen realistically, and who will make way?
Jay - you're right, I have questioned Kuyt's role on the right, but be
ReplyDeletethat as it may, Kuyt is still a better option than Henderson.
Oh right, you mean like the 2-3 years the fans gave Hodgson last year?
ReplyDeletePlease, all these crocodile tears are utterly hypocritical.
"jordan-henderson-destined-to-fail" does sound like you've written him off, to be fair. The article does go into greater detail about what you actually mean in terms of a position for him, but it could certainly be argued that the title and URL are quite fatalistic.
ReplyDeleteThing is, Lucas used to be a box-to-box midfielder and we turned him into a tackling machine. Now, he's certainly got that role down very well for us but why did we buy an AMF only to have them play as a DMF? There's countless times we've repurposed players (e.g. Carra, Kuyt, Kelly, Babel), but something about Jordan seems different. It's almost like they bought him because they saw potential as a midfield player, somewhere, and they just want to get his curve up, as it were. If he's asked, "Do you want to play today?" and the only position is RM, he's going to take it all day.
Personally I think he's quite a lot like Carrick. Now, hold those laughs in, because there was a time Carrick was one of the best players for United.
"let him build up confidence from the bench"
ReplyDeleteThis is a great idea! Lots of our best players have built up their confidence from the bench. Maxi's confidence is currently soaring!
Great article, so much insight!
The idea of playing Henderson as a wide player seems a little foolish but remember a young Gerrard never made the central spot his instantly.
ReplyDeleteI think Henderson has the qualities as a central player to push Adam out of the spot i am not sure Adam was a great buy.
I do disagree that Gerard will play in the middle for 4 to 5 years he will be more of a utility player as his career winds down.
Fair point, Mr. Chopper, but I did also write in the title 'but it's not his fault'.
ReplyDeleteI can definitely see the Carrick comparison, but if he's going to be a CM, who is going to make way? It will have to be Lucas, Adam or Gerrard, and I just don't see how Henderson can do a better job than any of those three. What do you think?
Henderson was played on the right for Sunderlan, so if he can't even be a regular CM for them, what hope does he have for Liverpool?
That is where we disagree Jaimie. I choose to wait till longer than 7 games before I judge whether a player fits into a certain position or not. Like i said earlier we do not know how long Gerrard will last, 1-3 season maybe, 4-5 I doubt it. You either want strength in depth or you don't
ReplyDeleteTo find a players best position, his abilities need to be identified first. So what does Henderson have?
ReplyDeleteCreativity - somewhat yes
Dribbling - not bad
Work rate - no doubt he can play the full 90 minutes with energy to spare
Teamwork - he has shown that
Passing - yes
Crossing - yes
Speed - the boy can run
Finishing - So so
Long Shots - Can do
Foot : Right
What does that make him? A right sided traditional English winger
Now do we need another right winger since we have Kuyt and Maxi? IMO yes cause in truth neither Kuyt nor Maxi are truly wingers. They are a rare breed of right footed right inside forwards(usually right inside forwards are left footed e.g. Hulk). That means they are not good at crossing, will always look to cut inside and go for through balls or get into the D-Box.
If 4-5-1 is to be Liverpool's preferred tactic, we need both type of wide-men, there are games where you go for width and attempt crosses to your target-man and there are games where you seek to overload the D-Box or attempt through-balls to your poacher or AM. This adds to the unpredictability of the tactic and makes it even tougher for the opposition.
There is a quite obvious difference here. Hodgson came in after already being in his job for 30 yrs and achieving very little. Henderson is 20
ReplyDeleteNow you are being harsh...how do you know JJ was anti Hodgson? I think if you are going to blog you need to except people will disagree with you and YOU should be the bigger person and not attack them back. As for Hendo, i believe he will be in the center of midfield in the future but in the mean time he has been farmed out to the right to learn the 'liverpool way'. Assuming GJohnson was fit kenny would not have had the issue of Hendo drifting in, its just been unfortunate that they haven't managed to play together yet.
ReplyDeleteHi Daboy - re Gerrard: perhaps it is a little optimistic for him to play for another 5 years, but let's just say he plays regularly for another 2 years, that 2 years he'll be keeping Henderson out of the midfielder, in which time his progression will have been stunted.
ReplyDeleteOf course, he could stay on the right for the next two years but that's not an ideal solution for the team.
I personally can't see him dislodging Adam - he is a great player (IMO), and central to the way Liverpool want to play. Plus, he practically guarantees goals/assists from midfield.
Given the fact Henderson predominantly played on the right for Sunderland, and he's premiership proven, I think it's fair to expect improved performance on the right, even after only 7 games. That's not my point though: long-term, Henderson should not be the first choice right-mid, for obvious reasons.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, playing Henderson on the right when he's not performing when we have players like Bellamy and Kuyt on the bench (who have proven their worth in wide positions), is surely not the best solution for the team.
The team comes first, no? This means the best players for each role should be played. instead, Liverpool seem to be playing Henderson out there in the hope that he will come good, which is arguably the wrong way to go about it.
I think 9 out of 10 people here would agree that Henderson has a future at LFC the thing though that people are questioning is why play him out of positon out right when we have clearly better options there? If he was bought as a CM then play him there. If he isnt ready to start in that position then bring him on off the bench but playing him simply cause he cost a bucketload ahead of other more capable players in the squad is just not sending the right message to the rest. If he was bought to play out wide on the right then hes obviously not ready and needs to start on the bench. If our number 1 objective is to make top 4 then Kenny needs to play the best 11. Everyone has to earn their position on merit that is the only way to keep hunger raging in the squad and competition for places.
ReplyDeleteGood points, Grepjava - are you then suggesting that Henderson should be given the right-wing role permanently?
ReplyDeleteMark - if Hendo is going to be a CM, then who is going to make way? Lucas, Adam, or Gerrard, and why?
ReplyDeleteWe should at least try him there Jaimie
ReplyDeleteSuperb post, Redbaronn2 - you've encapsulated exactly what I was trying to get across. As you say, if he was bought as a CM then play him there; don't farm him out to the right just to have him in the team at the expense of mire suitable players.
ReplyDeleteYou say you are 100% behind henderson. Thats the nonsense as you say you see no long term future for him.
ReplyDeleteWell Kenny clearly does. You should be trying to build the player up not nock him. The only true part of this artical is that we will not see the players true worth untill he is given a run in central midfield and this could be done and probibly will be done at some stage this season.
Spot on Jaimie couldnt have said it better myself
ReplyDeletei dont think half the people actually read the post
ReplyDeletei can totally understand were your coming from.. my main concern is that he is playing out of his natural position and keeping a player like bellamy/kuyt out of the team who are more use to playing on the wing ( dispite it not being there natural position)
i really hope our mid/forward line looks like this against everton ( and should of looked like this against tottenham)
suarez
bellamy downing
kuyt/gerrard
lucus adam
enrique skrtel carra kelly
pepe
setting up with a 5 man midfield to be able to defend but also have enough offense and the ability to hit on the counter with speed if needed
utter nonsense exactly. Jamie you are naive to think that just because there are 2 players ahead of him in his favorite position then he wont get a run. The idea with players like this is to play them in. When Gerrard/Adam are injured or we are at least in need of a rest then Kenny should give him a chance at being the attacking midfielder. When young players start out they arent normally in the top 2 players for that position. Whether or not Henderson succeeds will be depend on how well he plays; if he can eventually dislodge Adam/Gerrard. I agree that it is a mistake to be playing Henderson over Kuyt but the experience he is getting is helpful.
ReplyDeleteYou think he's a better option than Kuyt and Bellamy? Let's not forget, Kuyt got 14 goals and 7 assists last season (!). I'm not Kuyt's biggest fan but it cannot be denied that he does the business.
ReplyDeleteHe started off as a right winger and was moved to a central position at Sunderland. His delivery is impeccable when he has the balls to use it. I see him as a Beckham-like player but unfortunately the constant sniping and negativity from fans has got to him. He won't pass the ball forward anymore which is a shame.
ReplyDeleteWell i can see it going one of two ways. Kenny will either see him fighting SG hard for that place in attacking midfield or he will convert him (as we did with lucas) to a defensive midfielder. Hendo certainly has the legs to be a box to box guy. I personally see it being the latter, although i love lucas' work rate i dont believe him to be the best in that role. Yes he was our player of the year last season but in a poor team, could Lucas get into either manc teams, barca, real, or the Milan teams? I dont think so, that has to be our target now or i fear we will be forever fighting for '4th place'
ReplyDeletehmmm i bet you were celebrating when he scored that great goal (his first)??
ReplyDeletei know he is a good player,shit united wanted him but he chose to come here and i know he is gonna be a great player.He plays well for england too.Time is a valuable resource to any soccer player and not just any time,its playing time.I support all the players in the club,money is spent wildly nowadays ,sometimes value is discovered at later stages.So show him your confidence and he will deliver.Imagine if the player had to see this article? he will lose moral ,so cmon guys.Show your support:) YNWA
Get over it. If you can't handle constructive evaluation of players and the club then perhaps this is the wrong site for you.
ReplyDeleteDeebo all the more reason to play him off the bench then. If hes a RW then bring him on when the game is safe so he can build up the courage to supply that delivery. Playing him simply for the sake of it is only going to burden the weight on his shoulders.
ReplyDeleteFair enough but what about the morale of the other players that are sitting on the bench and arent getting a fair crack at it. I mean starting in the eleven should be on merit. Am i right?
ReplyDeleteI'm agreed with the articles. Nowadays, it's not a time to have an experiment on the field. Kenny should ease him slowly, maybe give him last 20 minutes to play more central where he can showed his capability. Let's player that perform better than him at right midfield. Kuyt is better as he can help to defence. Bellamy have a pace.
ReplyDeleteBellamy is your typical right footed left inside forward. He will compliment Downing well on the left wing when we need an inside forward instead of a winger. Henderson and Kuyt(minus the odd foot) are like Downing and Bellamy respectively on the right wing IMO. If we have a situation where we need to play narrower(like we have been doing for the past decade) we should use an inside forward like Kuyt. Instead if we need the width on the right with the winger hugging the touchline and supplying the crosses we should consider Henderson.
ReplyDeleteFor some reason in the Wolves game Henderson played more like an Inside Forward than a Winger. Why that happened truly baffles me.
Hodgson was also 'Prem' proven and had been in management for 30 yrs yet you slated ppl who judged him after 10 games, ( remember that's what he asked for) yes He has played there for Sunderland but he is now playing in a different team with different players under a different manager with different tactics. Once again I think you are over simplifying everything. It is not simply a case of hes played there before therefore he must be able to do it instantly here. I agree with lots that you say Jaimie and you do write very well but you are too inconsistent in your views. When I first saw this headline I thought it was another of your satirical pieces
ReplyDeleteBellamy was at direct fault for Spurs' 4th goal, Spearing was at direct fault for the pen against Brighton and Kuyt has contributed little more than Henderson in the league games he's played (and has proven over the last few years that he is not the solution to our problem).
ReplyDeleteAll that being said, unfortunately even with all the signings over the summer, we are left with a squad that doesn't have a legitimate top quality right winger still. Henderson has his issues (namely being that he isn't a right winger at all!) but so too does his competition for a place.
Gerrard's return will inevitably see Henderson dropped from the team, but Kuyt should have no right to grumble about anything (while Bellamy looks like he'll have to work his way into the team after his late arrival)
Grepjava i have to disagree with you their as i dont believe that Henderson is in fact an out and out winger. The reason he played more like inside forward is that he has naturally played as a CM for Sunderland. He definetely does not fit in the Downing category of winger , meaning he does not hug the byline and then whip the ball in. This could be due to the fact he's played as a CM of late for Sunderland so he has that natural tendency to drift in.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Kuyt a better option? Henderson is a better passer of the ball, a better crosser and actually has a chance to improve with the game time afforded him. We've already seen that this is as good as it gets with Kuyt, and that clearly isn't good enough.
ReplyDeleteHenderson wouldn't be first choice on right midfield for me either, but with such a small difference in current levels of productivity between those two options (Henderson & Kuyt), the logical choice should always be to go with the young guy that has a future at the club rather than the 31 y/o that should be on his way out.
Redbaronn2, I agree he is not a traditional winger yet, but he has all the qualities to be one. Maybe he needs to train and play regularly in the right wing? Only time will tell.
ReplyDeleteAdam or Gerrard - he is more mobile and moves the ball quicker than Adam, potentially posing a new problem to the opposition through the middle and neither Adam or Gerrard are going to play every game so there should be plenty of opportunity for Henderson to rack up +15 starts through the middle which would be plenty enough for a 20 y/o
ReplyDeleteThe sole reason I would say Kuyt is the better option is down to end product. With attacking players, I always look at specific, measurable creative contribution, and in Kuyt's case, he got 14 goals and 7 assists last season. I might not rate Kuyt that highly but those figures do not lie, and if a player is contributing to 21 goals a season for your team then dropping him for no good reason has to be wrong.
ReplyDeleteIf Liverpool had bought a dedicated right-winger and he'd taken Kuyt's place then it would be different. That hasn't happened - what we have is a 18m 21 year old taking his place because of (IMO) his price tag, not his ability or on merit.
I don't know why you are so insistent the Henderson is a central midfield player, he started on the right for Sunderland and only started playing in the center due to injuries. He is a quality player with a great range of passing and is ideally suited to the style of play that Kenny wants, high tempo short passing game. He works hard and is improving every game. You have also twisted Dirks words to suit you own agenda, you have cherry picked some quotes and missed out the more relavent ones for example: “Competition is tough now but it’s brilliant for the club that there are so many players to choose from now, top-class international players,” “The players realise at the end of the day you need more than 11 good players to be successful." “I think with the signings we’ve made, we have a great squad now so we should be ambitious and have confidence in ourselves.” Doesn't sound too alienated to me.
ReplyDeleteYour question was where does Henderson fit into the team - well at the risk of sounding redundant... Right midfield.
I must admit i did like reading this little statement at the end "IMPORTANT: If you leave a comment, stick to debating the issues. *Any* comments that attack the person and not the argument will be deleted. Repeated offenders will be banned." I'm guessing this is necessary as you often write ridiculous article based on uniformed opinions and are then lambasted for them. It actually annoys me that i have written this reply, I'm going to block this website from my browser so next time I'm on newsnow i wont accidentally stumble upon more of this trite odious nonsense.
Admittedly Gerrard was better in most positions than his competition for those places. Gerrard could've been right back for club and country for years if he had wanted to be!
ReplyDeleteHenderson should be playing where he can play to a high level (through the middle) or waiting for his opportunity to get on from the bench
Where have you seen evidence of his dribbling, finishing or ability to hit long shots? And crossing from a standing position (which Henderson can do) is totally different to beating a man and hitting a cross on the run (which quality wingers do, but we haven't seen from Henderson yet)
ReplyDeleteImo he has all the attributes to be a good CM, barring the strength to make his tackles stick and the awareness of when to press the opposition, but as a winger he is lacking quite a bit. Most notably the mentality of a winger.
Kuyt scored what, 7 penalties last season? Combine with that the fact that most of the rest of his goals came in the spell of a couple of games (just like with Meireles & Maxi) and it becomes apparent how ineffective he was on the wings on such a consistent basis.
ReplyDeleteJay he's obviously not a winger...all we are saying for the moment he IS the best man for the job and Hendo shouldnt be starting ahead of him in that position
ReplyDeleteLoathe as I am to defend Kuyt (!), I think he's a little more effective than you're making out, though I agree that penalties padded out his goal tally. I don't for one second believe that he should be the long-term solution - as you say, the club still doesn't have a dedicated right-winger - but if I have to choose between Henderson and Kuyt, there's no contest.
ReplyDeleteDead right Jay!!
ReplyDeleteSorry, but 6 games don't really make an issue. Don't judge other Liverpool fans for their beliefs, there isn't a static Liverpool way.
ReplyDeleteThe last time you would say "not so-and-so's fault" it would almost link to Benitez. But that's not the point. You just use that as a disclaimer.
ReplyDeleteSorry Jay but i find it amazing that you say he is a better crosser or passer of the ball than Kuyt. I for one havnt seen Henderson play the ball forward or picked out a through ball. Its quite easy to pass the ball backwards to the defenders but to do what Kuyt does running forward and picking out passes with Luis is just candy to the eye. Not to mention he runs opposing defences ragged with his determination to get to the ball.
ReplyDeleteMay I add you also questioned Glen Johnson's role on the right-back slot. You actually said you would take Martin Skrtel over him any day. So actually, we can't really read you. :)
ReplyDeleteHodgson?!
ReplyDeleteI LOL'd
I never he deserves to start just that he is a right midfielder with great delivery but a confidence problem that affects his play. A nervous Beckham and some fans are contributing to that. It's no secret that Alex Ferguson was heavily linked with him, maybe due to his Beckham-like qualities, namely his crossing.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EA5O5whfAs
ReplyDeleteReminds me of a young reds number 8 some time ago.
Maybe KD was watching the same video :)
Definitely true that Henderson isn't the most confident of players even with a sitter for a 1v1 with the GK. he's still too inexperienced rather than young to make an impact. At Sunderland, he had chances to orchestrate things precisely due to there not being any one more creative than he is in central midfield. Here in Liverpool, he's stumped because he isn't as gifted as Downing, Bellamy, Kuyt or Suarez to drift from left to right wing, yet he isn't as good a distributor of the ball as Lucas, Adam and the returning talisman, Gerrard. What is he to do? I agree with Jamie that he is a "lost" player in a strange land, but maybe as Kenny plays him for more games, he will be able to get his bearings? After all, coming on as a substitute does make a lot of sense in terms of earning his place, but it'd not benefit Henderson as he will not have the benefit of playing a long game to discover his positional sense.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it'd be good if he was partnered with senior squad players instead of trying to gel too many new players in midfield at the same time.
Henderson is better obviously as for the creative part of the game than Bellamy or Kuyt in that current position, and that's the reason which put
ReplyDeletehim as a first choice ahead of the others.I won't argue if you're right or
the manager, it is clearly about the philosophy of the game. I think you
are clever enough to understand that :)
Actually this is a little off topic, but did anyone notice the clustering of players getting more often? I.e. As Enrique dribbles up the ball, invariably trying to overlap onto Downing's run, suddenly 3 to 4 players are occupying the same space and there isn't the "width" we were looking to play to our advantage.
ReplyDeleteAlso wonder if anyone noticed that very few (maybe not any?) of our Midfield players actually play through passes for attacking players or make defense splitting passes that allowed for our previous striker(s) like Torres to have the opportunity to latch onto the ball for a strike. I was kinda struck by Gerrard's pass in the last game in the dying minutes which caused the Wolves' defense to second guess themselves, a classic defense splitting moment.
Hope to see more of that.
For the money we have paid for these player....they should be ready to go into the team straight away and perform...we need players to get us immediately back into champion league ...if these players were bought on potential only then we have been ripped off big style
ReplyDeleteYou don't increase the morale of a teammate by slagging off his competition. And Dirky's a World Cup finalist. He's big enough and definitely ugly enough to fight for his place.
ReplyDeleteim so tired of reading this square peg and round hole analogy. This is the modern game where players need to be profficient in more than one position and have more than one skill set. People were crying crocodile tears about how badly rafa treated gerrard out on the right midfield. But lo and behold he had his most profitable goal scoring season there. People said the same about kuyt, but he has been a machine on the right for a number of seasons now and never fails to get into double figures. I hear complaints that player X is a left sided player and if played on the right will have a massive inferiority complex.
ReplyDeleteIts arguments like these that really get my goat because they are just so outdated and sadly seem to hark back to a time before the premiership.
I look at the contribution of a player over 90 mins rather than just the ability to convert a penalty as proving the worth of our starting right winger. Henderson has his faults, as I've mentioned a number of times, but for me his positives outweigh those of Kuyt still.
ReplyDeleteEven if he doesn't match Kuyt's goal tally, he can easily match the positive contributions that Kuyt has to the team.
(Fwiw, I would put Bellamy, Gerrard and downing ahead of either of them for wide roles in the team though)
I guess it's having players ready to play, at the same tempo and with the same effort as each other. Say Gerrard needs resting (or gets injured), if Hendo can come in and be totally up for it then the team shouldn't be affected as much. Now I'm obviously not saying they're comparable in quality, but think back to some of the games where we've had these young, hungry kids come in and do brilliantly (Flanagan, Robinson, Shelvey, Kelly - even Spearing to an extent, as he was never really given a run before).
ReplyDeleteLFC have obviously seen a lot of potential in Jordan and it seems KD is trying to play him now to get him to a particular level. It's much like Lucas said how he was given a chance when everybody hated him. Carroll's also been given this, when other players are both playing better and more consistently (and, as a club, think back to Crouch). £18m is very steep for a young, unproven player (and I'm not even going to wave the Carroll bait here)... But we're playing Moneyball now. We're trying to find these kids and get hold of them before they go all Bale on us. It's risky and some will fail, but for us to get back to where we belong then we're going to have to take these risks.
Gerrard might get finally perma-crocked once and for all in a game. Lucas could get fed up and want to go back to Brazil. KK might have a sudden fallout with Adam and ship him off to Stoke. Although I'm not sure how happy I am of a midfield pairing of Spearing and Henderson for a season...
Kuyt's forward passes are typically chipped up into the air and near impossible for his teammates to control. Henderson moves the ball quickly along the floor in all directions into his teammates feet. This enables his teammates to have more time and space on the ball to do move forwards. As such it's easy for me to say which is the better passer.
ReplyDeleteIrt crossing it may be a bit closer to call as we haven't seen Henderson deliver too many crosses thus far. Needless to say that I'm not too impressed with Kuyt's dinked crosses to the back post every time though, which is why I gave that to Henderson.
And Kuyt runs opposing defences ragged? That's just a common throwaway comment that doesn't actually mean anything. Fullbacks will always much rather face a 'winger' that is committed to chasing them around the pitch, than a winger that is committed to getting the ball down and running the ball at them at pace (i'm not saying that Henderson does that either btw!)
Fair point, at present he might not be a better player than Lucas,Adam, and Gerrard.
ReplyDeleteBut your artical refers to the future and he could develop into a better player.
Hendo is playing good football. He's only 20 yrs old and although sometimes He struggled to keep the focus on the 90 mins, He's undoubtably showed good skills, good passes and a good talent for football. Hendo catchs the eyes of Fans Who have a decent understanding of football.Will He succed or fail? He's only 20 yrs old, He has the talent as Liverpool don't need to rush him into the first team, so the question in my view is unfair and it's a total waste of time.No disrespect for Jamie's work, as I simply expressed my point of view.Give a break to Hendo, and give a break to other lads.They are performing well as Kenny is working on a long term basis, something that Clubs like City or Chelsea don't do.If someone want an immediate explosion of players and istant success City or Chelsea are the right clubs for them.
ReplyDeleteI do believe the heading is questioning if he'll fail, not where he fits into the team. Technically he's still learning his trade. So he's still learning where he'll play. He was played as a box-to-box midfielder at Sunderland as he was primarily their stand out player. Where as at Anfield he's facing competition for places that he has never really faced before.
ReplyDelete(And as for Hodgson i wasn't one calling for his head after 2 months. I felt he should never have got the job in the 1st place as his track record with bigger teams wasn't great)
I don't believe it is kenny's wish to see Jordan hug the touchline. In my opinion Kenny bought Henderson to play as Houghton did, virtually a free role on the right to find space where he can and use his abilty to split defences with a pass. This role takes time to adapt to, getting the trust of your teammates to give you the ball when you demand it also takes time and trust. These three factors will hopefully work themselves out after Henderson puts in one or two good performances on the spin. At the moment he's still searching but it will come.
ReplyDeletevery true. cant argue with that.......
ReplyDeleteNow, if Fergie had these players at Man utd would they be performing. I tend to think YES. Maybe our players have not yet fully grasped what the coaching staff are asking of them or maybe because we are forced to defend so deep we are restricting our offensive players to counter attacks.
ReplyDeleteHow long did it take Rush to shine. MMMM a while. So lets for now get o his back. wait n see. Its only been few games.
ReplyDeletewell said
ReplyDeleteIf Henderson had been foreign player we would have been raving about his quality and would have bought him for about 5million
ReplyDeleteHow much did Rush cost, exactly?
ReplyDeleteSent from iPhone
Jaimie did raise a good question of where Henderson actually fits in.
ReplyDeleteThere must be a reason for signing Henderson though and for now we will not know that reason unless we are part of the coaching staff at Anfield. I doubt we have spent 15m+ on a 21 year old just for the fun of it and here is why...
FSG have made it clear that they will only buy players for the right reasons and if Henderson did not make sense to them then they would not have signed the cheque. We will in time know what the plan is for Henderson but rubbing his face in the mud after seven matches is like counting your chickens before they hatch.
I myself would not start Henderson for every match. He is far to young to handle the pressure he is under and the fans aren't doing him any favours by foaming at the mouth each and evertime he plays. Rushing him into the team the way he has been could eventualy lead to disaster. Thing is that I would not start with Kuyt down the right either. His passing is becoming worse as the minutes go by, he cannot beat defenders and defenders have an easy time taking the ball from him. He might be good at providing cover for RB but going forward on the right he is not effective. Kuyt scores goals when he is in the box and he should be playing upfront if anything. He is a striker after all but some clever spanish man decided to turn him into a defensive wideman?
I would use Bellamy down the right. He is attack minded and will add that extra bite to our midfield which has been sorely lacking down the right wing the whole season.
Back to Henderson, long term I see him in the middle of the park. My suggestion to Dalglish would be to decide now where he actually wants to play Henderson. If he is going to be used out wide then keep him there in order for the player to grow into that position from a young age and if it is in the middle then do not play him out wide. Pick a spot for the young lad and let him work his way up the ladder. That way there will be less room for failure. I do not expect Henderson to fail though. He does have alot of ability at the tender age of 21. Compared to Sunderland, LFC is a massively gigantic step at this young age.
We have two options. Either fully support Henderson or strive to see him fail. I choose to fully support Hendo and hope he has plenty of success at his new found home. :)
Jamie i was extremely impressed with Henderson last season and do believe he is destined for stardom unlike many i talk to, its like all things with money if he cost 2 mill not 16 a lot more people would support him.
ReplyDeleteHe is not much older than Shelvey who some rate but is a much better player, Adam is a good player but not a star.
Not denying that Jay thats why i think Gerard will be a player used in various positions as his career winds down.
ReplyDeleteGerards ability to make long fast runs from deep positions may become more limited as time goes by especially considering his groin injuries.
Does have a left foot his goal proved that.
ReplyDeleteTook Anderson & Nani 2,3 seasons to bed in at UTD, both bought for very similar money to Henderson and with UTD with a myriad of options in their positions ahead of them. Both didnt exactly enjoy immediate confidence from UTD supporters. Look at them now, two of UTDs standout performers this season.
ReplyDeletePlayers like Henderson, Nani & Anderson arent bought for 7 games, they are bought for the next 7 years plus.
Really hate the way some critics say: where does such & such fit in? when for years the biggest glaring problem with our squad has been quality in depth. Now when we are getting closer to that (if still some way distant of UTDs & Citys), fans/bloggers are asking how can our new young signing possibly get into our first team? What was the point in signing him? Its nonsense.
Lucas, Adam & Gerrard, wont play every game, and maybe Hendersons flexibility in position will in time, become a useful asset rather than one to pour scorn on him for.
we have a habit of making one of our young players every season as wipping boy and hate figure. I remember two season ago, some of those were calling Lucas liverpools worse player ever. and same went for Carragher when he was a young man playing out of position for us. where are they today? I mean those negative fans.
ReplyDeleteHenderson is a young lad who I think it must be good enough if liverpool and Kenny wanted him. his price tag is not his fault.
its up to us Fans to help him get better, if we support him and boost his confidence by more game he will become player. I am afraid not all palyers are like Lucas or Carra to sustain all that critic, and some might never recover.
I will support him and any other players who wear the shirt and fight for that shirt and right now its too early to judge Henderson after only handful of games.
I agree with the author , it will be difficult for Henderson to succeed at our club. he doesn't have the pace or dribbling ability which is essential for a winger.. so that's ruled out. And i feel that more midfielders will be signed in the next transfer window. Gerrard, Lucas , Adam , Spearing .. He's definitely goin to go behind them in the pecking order. Kenny should not start with him, there are better players in the bench.. maxi , kuyt , bellamy... all of them have more experience and are decent players..
ReplyDeletelol I expected to see a Henderson compilation video of some stuff I'd missed him doing for us, or at least something with all of his best moments from his time at Sunderland. But all that you've provided is one single moment from a couple of years ago??
ReplyDeleteYou could justify playing almost any player in almost any position if all that is required is a single instance of them completing a particular task! I've seen Bellamy complete a couple of sliding tackles so does that mean that we should play him at centreback??
I agree with what you've said there Redbaronn. My point though is that I don't see Kuyt as being any better an option than him on the right. I hope to see the logical change to a formation better suited to the players at our disposal (i.e. 433 or 4231) asap, but even as things stand with Dalglish insisting on deploying a 4 man midfield, I don't see Kuyt as any more deserving of a starting place than Henderson.
ReplyDeleteWhy should Kuyt have to 'fight for his place' ? He was on fire towards the end of last season and there is no sensible reason as to why Henderson took his spot. Not only that the opportunities he has been given have only heightened that he is not ready and gone missing in games. I dont want to slag the youngster cause its not his fault we payed so much for him but from what he has shown he's been absolutely awful.
ReplyDeleteWell i disagree Jay just having Kuyt in the team as a RM ahead of Henderson IMO is a much better option. He runs all day and harrasses the opposition. When doing this he also provides cover for the defenders as hes always at the opposition when they have the ball. This in itself provides a certain amount of cover to our defenders. I believe we have been so leaky in defence due to the fact that apart from Lucas our current midfielders have no defensive accountability when we dont have the ball. Im sure you would agree that Adam has no idea as to how to tackle and going by the epl player index stats Henderson is not much better. Simply put our opposition is just walking through our midfield like they are on a Sunday stroll.
ReplyDeleteNo one is saying he wont be a great player like Nani. That is not what we are debating here it is the fact that he is starting ahead of more suitable experienced players who at this point in time are better than him. Even Nani and Anderson had to wait there turn before they became regular starters. Kenny is hellbent on picking his signings in the starting lineup regardless of form.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I hate rednose I for one believe that these players would not be playing immediately in the team but slowly worked there way in unless injuries forced his hand.
ReplyDeleteAs Kenny Dalglish has said time and time again this season, we have a squad of players, not just a team. Henderson's flexibility has seen him play on the right, left and in the centre this season already. He isn't an out and out winger so in the long term I don't think the right hand side is the place for him, but certainly he has a place in the middle in the next few years. Henderson hasn't done anything outstanding this season but he's been solidly decent in my opinion. He has good control, he can pass and he keeps the ball very well, and if you want to play pass and move then we need that sort of player.
ReplyDeleteGerrard would like to carry on for another 4-5 years but whether his body allows him to do it is another matter. And if it does, maybe he'll become a bit part player/impact player like Giggs at Man Utd. Also if Gerrard and Adam aren't available then Henderson is perfect to step into the middle.
For the first time in years we have options and a solid squad, not just a good XI like we have had previously. Options all over the field; central midfield - Lucas, Gerrard, Adam, Henderson, Spearing, Shelvey. Left hand side - Downing, Bellamy, Henderson. Right hand side - Kuyt, Downing, Henderson, Bellamy. Forwards - Suarez, Carroll, Kuyt, Bellamy, and even Gerrard can still play in the hole. Its fantastic, that we can have a couple of injuries and still bring in players right for each position, not square pegs in round holes.
Henderson definitely has a role at Liverpool over the next few years as part of the squad that Dalglish keeps talking about, and under the tutelage of Dalglish and Gerrard he will get better and better. And as he's still young, he'll wait for his opportunities. If he's not in the team whcih I'm sure will happen this season he won't be throwing his toys out of the pram.
Gary
ReplyDeleteI totally agree, Henderson won't go moaning to the media if he had to be left out of the squad whereas Kuyt has (not in a bad way) said that he is dissapointed at not to making the starting lineup on a regular basis this season.
The one good thing Kuyt had going for him over the years is that there was no competition in the squad to challenge him for his spot in the team. This season it is a totally different story and he will have to get used to not starting every match like he used to. Competition is healthy, get used to it or piss off. It is not like he will start every match if he had to play for Utd, Chelsea or City. That I can guarantee!
Here are some more "evidence" of all the qualities you say he lacks, including more crossing assists :), finishing and long shots
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrFxj8wm1q0&feature=related
There are more in youtube if you type "Jordan Henderson Assists". You could help yourself by searching there. Really don't want to spam this site with videos.
But I know you will be adamant with your views. That is ok, you are entitled to them.
Indeed he does Daboy but he has a stronger Right foot, like Messi has a stronger Left foot, few top level players nowadays are Left Only(Jose Enrique) or Right Only(Roman Pavlyuchenko). There are also some rare ones that are ambidextrous possessing equally strong left and right foot(Morten Gamst Pedersen) and if these players happen to be skillful attackers(Pele) they make a terrifying opponent and are a nightmare to defenders cause there is no way you can force them on to their weaker foot. :)
ReplyDelete