On the 30th May 2004 (before Benitez was appointed), I wrote a post on ThisIsAnfield.com arguing that Martin O Neill should get the Manager's job ahead of Benitez and Jose Mourinho. Five years later and O'Neill is apparently one of the favourites to become the next Liverpool manager. Well, my opinion has not changed: For me, O'neill is the only man for the job.
Before the 'Rafa Can Do No Wrong' brigade joins forces with the 'Rafa Benitez Anti-Defamation League' and collectively start foaming at the mouth, let me reiterate my position on Benitez's job:
1. I am totally against sacking Benitez mid-season. In my recent interview with Republik of Mancunia, I stated the following:
Rafa will not be sacked, nor should he be. Liverpool have never sacked a manager mid-season and the club is not going to start now, especially after last season’s 2nd place finish
I have always been consistent on this point.
2. When the time comes, I do not believe Benitez should be sacked anyway. Given his affinity with the fans and the success he has achieved in Europe, he deserves better than that.
3. Benitez should be given till the end of the season, irrespective of how things go over the next few months. And if things have not improved, and/or Liverpool fail to qualify for the Champions League, he should walk away at the end of the season of his volition.
Anyway - here is the text from my post 5 years ago: 'Martin O'Neill is the only man for the LFC job'.
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It really makes my blood boil to read apparently knoweldgeable Liverpool Fans dismissing Martin O Neill as a managerial candidate so easily. For me, O Neil is the ONLY candidate LFC should be considering.
Whenever his name is mentioned the usual misguided generalisations are wheeled out: Long ball merchant, Scottish League is shite, no track record in Europe etc.
YAWN.
What track record did Bob Paisley have in Europe before becoming Manager?! Who knew Bill Shankly before he revolutionised Liverpool FC forever?! What managerial experience did Kenny Dalglish have before moulding arguably the most breathtaking Liverpool team ever?!
Martin O Neill is clearly destined for greatness. He is a born winner. He's been there and done it. He's won the European Cup as a player under Brian Clough, a Manager that Bill Shankly admired. Martin O Neill knows what it takes to win at all levels yet the same old tired excuses are repeatedly wheeled out.
Why?
Wherever O'Neil has gone he has worked wonders. He works with what he has, and operated within the confines of a given job and always does the business. The quality of the Scottish league or the status of Leicester City are irrelevent - his achievements are what's important. O'Neill has proved that he can adapt to any situation and come out on top. O Neill does what needs to be done to succeed. That is the sign of a true winner.
In my view, Liverpool need a British Manager at this stage i.e. someone with a vast knowledge of English Football. Someone who needs no time to adapt to the Premiere league. Someone who will bring the best out of players, instill passion, fight and desire and make each player proud to wear the shirt.
That man is O Neill. It is not Benitez or Mourinho.
Not that I don't believe Mourinho and Benitez to be good Managers - they undoubtedly are class Managers. I just feel that in the long term, they are not the answer.
With superior quality players at his disposal, Martin O Neill would turn Liverpool into Premiership and European Champions again. Of that I have absolutely no doubt. All this talk about hoofball and route one football is just bull. Within the sphere O Neill has worked in thus far, the minute budgets and and type of players he's had, that type of football (on occasion) has yielded results. At Liverpool it would be a different story. Quality players, bigger budget etc - O'Neill would work wonders.
Once again, I just cannot understand why so many LFC fans criticise O Neill. I have yet to hear any proper arguments that are not based on generalisation. I would argue that Shanks and Paisley would approve of O'Neill and his passion, motivational skills and ability to bring the best out of players.
At the end of the day, the plain fact is that the entirety of Liverpool Football Club's success has come from having British Managers at the helm: Shanks, Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish. Historically, almost all successful British teams have been led by British Managers: Busby, Stein, Shanks, Paisley, Revie, Clough, Ferguson, Kendall, Graham among others. When English teams dominated Europe in the late 70's early 80's it was British Managers who were at the helm.
On a related note, it's also worth noting that many of the most successful teams across Europe have been led by Managers who manage in their own countries. Recently I'm thinking of Mourinho at Porto, Benitez at Valencia, Capello at Roma, Hitzfeld at Bayern, Ancelotti at AC Milan, Del Bosque at Real Madrid [And currently: Guardiola at Barcelona; Ferguson has re-established United's dominace; Veh at Wolfsburg' Hitzfeld again at bayern in 2007; etc.]
Martin O Neill is ready to take the step up. He could create a new dynasty at Anfield. If we miss out on him for the quick fix of Benitez or Mourinho then Manure will snap him up when Ferguscum retires, signalling another era of United dominance. We cannot allow that to happen.
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The key point here about O'Neill is this: wherever he has managed, he has take the team as far as it is realistically possible to go (taking into account players at his disposal, transfer budgets etc).
Wycombe Wanders
Took them out of non-league football and into Division 2 (via successive promotions) in under 4 years. For a club of Wycombe's size, the best they can ever realistically hope for is Division 2, which is borne out by the fact that since O'Neill left, they have never risen higher than that.
Leicester City
Promoted to the Premier league in his first season, after which they finished ninth in 1997, tenth in 1998 and 1999, and eighth in 2000, outstanding results for a newly promoted team, and arguably the highest that Leicester City could ever hope to climb in the top league. In fact, their league positions were arguably an overachievement.
O'Neill also took Leicester City to the League Cup final 3 times in 4 years, winning twice along the way, a by-product of which was European football in the UEFA Cup.
Liverpool fans may scoff at the league cup, but as I stated earlier, you have to consider the context, quality of the team/players, and the resources available.
Celtic
In O'Neill's Celtic won the domestic treble. He was the first Celtic manager to take the team into the revamped Champions League, something he achieved three times. He also took Celtic to the 2003 UEFA Cup Final in Seville, which was in extra time to a Porto side coached by...José Mourinho.
In his five seasons at Celtic Park, O'Neill won three League titles, three Scottish Cups, and a League Cup. He also oversaw a record 7 consecutive victories in Old Firm derbies, and in season 2003-04 Celtic created a British record of 25 consecutive victories.
Very impressive stuff. Yet people will tear this down by saying 'but it's only Scottish football'. Nonsense. As Celtic Managers post-O'Neill have discovered, you can't just turn up and expect everything to click into place - it takes managerial expertise, something O'Neill has in abundance.
Once again, O'Neill took a club to the very maximum of what they were capable of achieving. Is it realistic to expect a club like Celtic to win the Champions League? Arguably, no. It hasn't happened in over 40 years, so there's no shame in Celtic's failure to win or reach the latter stages under O'Neill.
Aston Villa
Villa had the longest unbeaten start of any Premiership side in 2006-07 (9 games), not losing a league game until 28 October. Villa's final points tally was 50, an improvement of 8 over the previous season.
Villa just missed out on a UEFA Cup spot on the final day of the 2007-08 season by finishing 6th. They scored 71 goals, (their best ever tally in the Premier League and best tally since winning the title in 1981), gained 60 points which was Villa's highest points tally since the 1996-97 season, and were the 3rd highest goalscorers.
After 25 games of the 2008-09 season the club were third in the table on 51 points, 2 points above Chelsea on level games and 7 points above Arsenal in 5th place and on course for a place in the Champions League for the first time since 1983. Villa eventually finished 6th for the second season running with 62 points, 2 more points than they finished with the previous season.
Given the cash the top 4 clubs in England have, is it realistic for Villa to establish themselves in the top 4? Arguably, no. So far, O'Neill has taken Aston Villa almost as high as it is possible for them to go in the league. And let's not forget that, currently, Villa are ahead of Liverpool in the table, a position helped by their 3-1 win at Anfield earlier in the season.
What I am trying to get at here is this: O'Neill has a knack of taking every team he manages to apex of what they are able to achieve, and he uses the style of football that is inherent in that team to achieve success.
Look at it another way: Given the expectations/resources available, could any other manager have done any better at Leicester, Wycombe, Celtic, or even Aston Villa?
At Liverpool, I have no doubt at all that O'Neill would take the club to the apex of what it is able to achieve. He would not use long-ball football because that is not the style to which Liverpool FC is accustomed.
As we saw last season, the current squad (Alonso aside) is capable of winning the league. O'Neill would bring one magic ingredient to the party that Benitez (IMO) seriously lacks: Effective man-management/motivation skills.
For me, this is the missing piece of the jigsaw at the moment. And if O'Neill can bring Ashley Young and Gabriel Agbonlahor with him to Liverpool, even better!
Three-phase plan for success
Ultimately, I see Liverpool's future success (and eventual winning of the Premiership) as a team effort and three-pronged process:
1. Gerard Houllier dragged Liverpool out of its 90s malaise and turned the club back into a professional organisation at all levels. He reinstalled a measure of self-respect and took the first steps in re-establishing the club's credibility in Europe.
2. Rafa Benitez has built on Houllier's work and truly established Liverpool as a feared European force. Suspect purchases and man-management issues aside, Benitez has also put together a squad that is capable of challenging for the league, something Houllier never achieved. Unfortunately, Benitez took the team as far as he could in the league last season (my opinion of course).
3. Martin O'Neill will take Liverpool to the next level - just like Rafa utilised Houllier's squad to win the Champions League, O'Neill will utilise Rafa's squad to win the Premiership.
Equation for Premiership success at Liverpool
Martin O'Neill + Current squad + Ashley Young + Gabriel Agbonlahor + Motivation/Man-management skills = Premiership title.
----------------- Reina
Johnson ------- Carra -- Agger ------ Insua/New left back
-------------------- Masch
------------ Gerrard ----- Aquilani
Benayoun --------------------------- Young
------------------ Torres (With Agbonlahor as cover)
Looks like a Premiership-winning team to me.
NB. Any comments that contravene the comment policy will be automatically deleted. Please see the amendment in the 'Site News' section at the top right of the page.
Before the 'Rafa Can Do No Wrong' brigade joins forces with the 'Rafa Benitez Anti-Defamation League' and collectively start foaming at the mouth, let me reiterate my position on Benitez's job:
1. I am totally against sacking Benitez mid-season. In my recent interview with Republik of Mancunia, I stated the following:
Rafa will not be sacked, nor should he be. Liverpool have never sacked a manager mid-season and the club is not going to start now, especially after last season’s 2nd place finish
I have always been consistent on this point.
2. When the time comes, I do not believe Benitez should be sacked anyway. Given his affinity with the fans and the success he has achieved in Europe, he deserves better than that.
3. Benitez should be given till the end of the season, irrespective of how things go over the next few months. And if things have not improved, and/or Liverpool fail to qualify for the Champions League, he should walk away at the end of the season of his volition.
Anyway - here is the text from my post 5 years ago: 'Martin O'Neill is the only man for the LFC job'.
----------------
It really makes my blood boil to read apparently knoweldgeable Liverpool Fans dismissing Martin O Neill as a managerial candidate so easily. For me, O Neil is the ONLY candidate LFC should be considering.
Whenever his name is mentioned the usual misguided generalisations are wheeled out: Long ball merchant, Scottish League is shite, no track record in Europe etc.
YAWN.
What track record did Bob Paisley have in Europe before becoming Manager?! Who knew Bill Shankly before he revolutionised Liverpool FC forever?! What managerial experience did Kenny Dalglish have before moulding arguably the most breathtaking Liverpool team ever?!
Martin O Neill is clearly destined for greatness. He is a born winner. He's been there and done it. He's won the European Cup as a player under Brian Clough, a Manager that Bill Shankly admired. Martin O Neill knows what it takes to win at all levels yet the same old tired excuses are repeatedly wheeled out.
Why?
Wherever O'Neil has gone he has worked wonders. He works with what he has, and operated within the confines of a given job and always does the business. The quality of the Scottish league or the status of Leicester City are irrelevent - his achievements are what's important. O'Neill has proved that he can adapt to any situation and come out on top. O Neill does what needs to be done to succeed. That is the sign of a true winner.
In my view, Liverpool need a British Manager at this stage i.e. someone with a vast knowledge of English Football. Someone who needs no time to adapt to the Premiere league. Someone who will bring the best out of players, instill passion, fight and desire and make each player proud to wear the shirt.
That man is O Neill. It is not Benitez or Mourinho.
Not that I don't believe Mourinho and Benitez to be good Managers - they undoubtedly are class Managers. I just feel that in the long term, they are not the answer.
With superior quality players at his disposal, Martin O Neill would turn Liverpool into Premiership and European Champions again. Of that I have absolutely no doubt. All this talk about hoofball and route one football is just bull. Within the sphere O Neill has worked in thus far, the minute budgets and and type of players he's had, that type of football (on occasion) has yielded results. At Liverpool it would be a different story. Quality players, bigger budget etc - O'Neill would work wonders.
Once again, I just cannot understand why so many LFC fans criticise O Neill. I have yet to hear any proper arguments that are not based on generalisation. I would argue that Shanks and Paisley would approve of O'Neill and his passion, motivational skills and ability to bring the best out of players.
At the end of the day, the plain fact is that the entirety of Liverpool Football Club's success has come from having British Managers at the helm: Shanks, Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish. Historically, almost all successful British teams have been led by British Managers: Busby, Stein, Shanks, Paisley, Revie, Clough, Ferguson, Kendall, Graham among others. When English teams dominated Europe in the late 70's early 80's it was British Managers who were at the helm.
On a related note, it's also worth noting that many of the most successful teams across Europe have been led by Managers who manage in their own countries. Recently I'm thinking of Mourinho at Porto, Benitez at Valencia, Capello at Roma, Hitzfeld at Bayern, Ancelotti at AC Milan, Del Bosque at Real Madrid [And currently: Guardiola at Barcelona; Ferguson has re-established United's dominace; Veh at Wolfsburg' Hitzfeld again at bayern in 2007; etc.]
Martin O Neill is ready to take the step up. He could create a new dynasty at Anfield. If we miss out on him for the quick fix of Benitez or Mourinho then Manure will snap him up when Ferguscum retires, signalling another era of United dominance. We cannot allow that to happen.
----------------
The key point here about O'Neill is this: wherever he has managed, he has take the team as far as it is realistically possible to go (taking into account players at his disposal, transfer budgets etc).
Wycombe Wanders
Took them out of non-league football and into Division 2 (via successive promotions) in under 4 years. For a club of Wycombe's size, the best they can ever realistically hope for is Division 2, which is borne out by the fact that since O'Neill left, they have never risen higher than that.
Leicester City
Promoted to the Premier league in his first season, after which they finished ninth in 1997, tenth in 1998 and 1999, and eighth in 2000, outstanding results for a newly promoted team, and arguably the highest that Leicester City could ever hope to climb in the top league. In fact, their league positions were arguably an overachievement.
O'Neill also took Leicester City to the League Cup final 3 times in 4 years, winning twice along the way, a by-product of which was European football in the UEFA Cup.
Liverpool fans may scoff at the league cup, but as I stated earlier, you have to consider the context, quality of the team/players, and the resources available.
Celtic
In O'Neill's Celtic won the domestic treble. He was the first Celtic manager to take the team into the revamped Champions League, something he achieved three times. He also took Celtic to the 2003 UEFA Cup Final in Seville, which was in extra time to a Porto side coached by...José Mourinho.
In his five seasons at Celtic Park, O'Neill won three League titles, three Scottish Cups, and a League Cup. He also oversaw a record 7 consecutive victories in Old Firm derbies, and in season 2003-04 Celtic created a British record of 25 consecutive victories.
Very impressive stuff. Yet people will tear this down by saying 'but it's only Scottish football'. Nonsense. As Celtic Managers post-O'Neill have discovered, you can't just turn up and expect everything to click into place - it takes managerial expertise, something O'Neill has in abundance.
Once again, O'Neill took a club to the very maximum of what they were capable of achieving. Is it realistic to expect a club like Celtic to win the Champions League? Arguably, no. It hasn't happened in over 40 years, so there's no shame in Celtic's failure to win or reach the latter stages under O'Neill.
Aston Villa
Villa had the longest unbeaten start of any Premiership side in 2006-07 (9 games), not losing a league game until 28 October. Villa's final points tally was 50, an improvement of 8 over the previous season.
Villa just missed out on a UEFA Cup spot on the final day of the 2007-08 season by finishing 6th. They scored 71 goals, (their best ever tally in the Premier League and best tally since winning the title in 1981), gained 60 points which was Villa's highest points tally since the 1996-97 season, and were the 3rd highest goalscorers.
After 25 games of the 2008-09 season the club were third in the table on 51 points, 2 points above Chelsea on level games and 7 points above Arsenal in 5th place and on course for a place in the Champions League for the first time since 1983. Villa eventually finished 6th for the second season running with 62 points, 2 more points than they finished with the previous season.
Given the cash the top 4 clubs in England have, is it realistic for Villa to establish themselves in the top 4? Arguably, no. So far, O'Neill has taken Aston Villa almost as high as it is possible for them to go in the league. And let's not forget that, currently, Villa are ahead of Liverpool in the table, a position helped by their 3-1 win at Anfield earlier in the season.
What I am trying to get at here is this: O'Neill has a knack of taking every team he manages to apex of what they are able to achieve, and he uses the style of football that is inherent in that team to achieve success.
Look at it another way: Given the expectations/resources available, could any other manager have done any better at Leicester, Wycombe, Celtic, or even Aston Villa?
At Liverpool, I have no doubt at all that O'Neill would take the club to the apex of what it is able to achieve. He would not use long-ball football because that is not the style to which Liverpool FC is accustomed.
As we saw last season, the current squad (Alonso aside) is capable of winning the league. O'Neill would bring one magic ingredient to the party that Benitez (IMO) seriously lacks: Effective man-management/motivation skills.
For me, this is the missing piece of the jigsaw at the moment. And if O'Neill can bring Ashley Young and Gabriel Agbonlahor with him to Liverpool, even better!
Three-phase plan for success
Ultimately, I see Liverpool's future success (and eventual winning of the Premiership) as a team effort and three-pronged process:
1. Gerard Houllier dragged Liverpool out of its 90s malaise and turned the club back into a professional organisation at all levels. He reinstalled a measure of self-respect and took the first steps in re-establishing the club's credibility in Europe.
2. Rafa Benitez has built on Houllier's work and truly established Liverpool as a feared European force. Suspect purchases and man-management issues aside, Benitez has also put together a squad that is capable of challenging for the league, something Houllier never achieved. Unfortunately, Benitez took the team as far as he could in the league last season (my opinion of course).
3. Martin O'Neill will take Liverpool to the next level - just like Rafa utilised Houllier's squad to win the Champions League, O'Neill will utilise Rafa's squad to win the Premiership.
Equation for Premiership success at Liverpool
Martin O'Neill + Current squad + Ashley Young + Gabriel Agbonlahor + Motivation/Man-management skills = Premiership title.
----------------- Reina
Johnson ------- Carra -- Agger ------ Insua/New left back
-------------------- Masch
------------ Gerrard ----- Aquilani
Benayoun --------------------------- Young
------------------ Torres (With Agbonlahor as cover)
Looks like a Premiership-winning team to me.
NB. Any comments that contravene the comment policy will be automatically deleted. Please see the amendment in the 'Site News' section at the top right of the page.
Why do you write for a Liverpool site when its quite clear you dont support them?
ReplyDeletelong-ball nonsense, and a manager whose 'success' has been consistently second-rate. He's an Irish Gerard Houllier.
ReplyDeleteYou realise you've got 12 players in that team at the end!
ReplyDeleteOoops. You're right ;)
ReplyDeleteWell, any excuse to drop Dirk Kuyt :-P
Aaah , how refreshing to see a non-cliched, non-generalised response that doesn't recycle the same tired myths about O'Neill!
ReplyDelete1. why are you being interviewed by republic of mancunia? your comments mirror only a minority of liverpool fans.
ReplyDelete2. martin o'neill is no way up to the liverpool job. he is a great man manager but tactically inept in both the premiership and the champions league. done a great job at villa but does not have what it takes to manage a top side.
If Benitez goes then it should be a proven winner that comes in. Someone like Roberto Mancini.
ReplyDeleteYou have 12 men in the "premiership winning team"! If we're allowed 12 men we may win :) Hopefully no-one will notice.
ReplyDeleteOkay. Please explain why O'Neill is:
ReplyDelete1. 'not up to the Liverpool job'
2. Tactically inept
3. Not up to the task of managing a top side.
Can you not see that just saying it doesn't make it true.
Explain your POV, don't just regurgitate media generalisations.
Read it again - it is 11.
ReplyDeleteGreat.
ReplyDeleteSo why Robert Mancini? What is your argumnent for him? Do you even know why you think that or are you just robotically parroting something you heard/read elsewhere?
I just read an article by Tomikins in regard to the Liverpool managers, liverpool with Benitez on average has won 1.93 league points per game, exact same as Alex Ferguson. we have every year exceeded our expection and we should not judge this season as it is not finsihed yet.
ReplyDeletelast year our best players were Torres, Gerrard, Alonso, Mascharano, Yossi, Skertle, Reina, Carragher, arbelao and Hypia,
from that group of palyers, three have left, three are injured and another two by their own admission have not been in same form. in addition to that two players we bought to cover for the ones who left had been injured.
my question is: could any other team have done better with missing so many of their best palyers.
could Chelsea have been top of league if Drogba, Terry, Lambard and chech were injured and anelka and essein left,
liverpoo wrongly has been stated as two man team, Torress and Gerrard, I acknowledge their importance however they only played 14 games together last season and still we finish second.
I honestly dont think Oneil would have done any better than Benitez if he was in same situation with injuries.
I am certian that at the end of season once again all those who are making the noises about Benitez should get sacked, will be quiet as the result will be better, this is what had happened for last 5 years, he turned things around. and he did the same in Valencia. I remember those who last year this time were saying he should get sacked.
I hope you publish this article as I have noticed for some strange reason all my replies get deleted.
He's to old. Hopefully Rafa will be around for at least another 10 years, O'neill will be 67 at that point...
ReplyDeleteQuoting You:
ReplyDelete<span>" The key point here about <span><span> </span><span>O'Neill</span></span> is this: wherever he has managed, he has take the team as far as it is realistically possible to go (taking into account players at his disposal, transfer budgets etc). "
</span>
Just like RB ??But then again, RB took teams beyond "realistically possible" - valencia winning la liga x 2 ... LFC CL finalists x 2
Going back to your quote - how about this :
<span>The key point here about <span><span>Benitez</span></span> is this: wherever he has managed, he has taken the team as far as it is realistically possible to go (taking into account players at his disposal, transfer budgets etc) and then some.</span>
Mo - your previous comments got deleted because they contained derogatory comments. if people stick to debating the issues there is no problem.
ReplyDeleteI disagree - the furthest Liverpool can go is winning the league. Benitez is unable to achieve that. It should have been won last season and could've been won in 2007; 24 league draws in those two seasons put a stop to that (13 in 2007; 11 in 2008).
ReplyDeleteRafa and Mourhino are a level above O'Neill.
ReplyDeleteSorry, that's pretty clear to everyone, no one can argue that the Scottish league isn't inferior and that's where O'Neill has had his only real success, whilst simultaneously failing in Europe, which he's continued with glee (and seriously damaging his realtionships with the fans) at Villa.
I realise he's still progressing Villa but he's hardly set the world on fire (understatement) and FWIW I've seen Villa humiliated at Anfield, we played them off the park in 2006 scoring 3 first half goals, there was a 5-0 last season, granted there was a blip this season but *** happens eh.
As for their football under him, it can be nice but it's nothing too special.
As a man manger he's as open to criticsim as any of them and there are some serious questions as to his judgement, not least the Uefa Cup fiasco which I thought was shocking, leaving the club to placate the fans in the embarrassing aftermath.
Sorry I'll take some convincing on this, whilst acknowledging he's a decent manager but I'd take Rafa every time over O'Neill.
He'll go up in my estimation if indeed he does a "Rafa" and puts Villa top of the table one May above everyone else - for which read Rafa, Valencia and breaking the Madrid/Barca cartel but does anyone really see O'Neill winning the league with Villa?
Rafa and Mourhino are a level above O'Neill.
ReplyDeleteSorry, that's pretty clear to everyone, no one can argue that the Scottish league isn't inferior and that's where O'Neill has had his only real success, whilst simultaneously failing in Europe, which he's continued with glee (and seriously damaging his realtionships with the fans) at Villa.
I realise he's still progressing Villa but he's hardly set the world on fire (understatement) and FWIW I've seen Villa humiliated at Anfield, we played them off the park in 2006 scoring 3 first half goals, there was a 5-0 last season, granted there was a blip this season but *** happens eh.
As for their football under him, it can be nice but it's nothing too special.
As a man manger he's as open to criticsim as any of them and there are some serious questions as to his judgement, not least the Uefa Cup fiasco which I thought was shocking, leaving the club to placate the fans in the embarrassing aftermath.
Sorry I'll take some convincing on this, whilst acknowledging he's a decent manager but I'd take Rafa every time over O'Neill.
He'll go up in my estimation if indeed he does a "Rafa" and puts Villa top of the table one May above everyone else - for which read Rafa, Valencia and breaking the Madrid/Barca cartel but does anyone really see O'Neill winning the league with Villa?
Rafa and Mourhino are a level above O'Neill.
ReplyDeleteSorry, that's pretty clear to everyone, no one can argue that the Scottish league isn't inferior and that's where O'Neill has had his only real success, whilst simultaneously failing in Europe, which he's continued with glee (and seriously damaging his realtionships with the fans) at Villa.
I realise he's still progressing Villa but he's hardly set the world on fire (understatement) and FWIW I've seen Villa humiliated at Anfield, we played them off the park in 2006 scoring 3 first half goals, there was a 5-0 last season, granted there was a blip this season but *** happens eh.
As for their football under him, it can be nice but it's nothing too special.
As a man manger he's as open to criticsim as any of them and there are some serious questions as to his judgement, not least the Uefa Cup fiasco which I thought was shocking, leaving the club to placate the fans in the embarrassing aftermath.
Sorry I'll take some convincing on this, whilst acknowledging he's a decent manager but I'd take Rafa every time over O'Neill.
He'll go up in my estimation if indeed he does a "Rafa" and puts Villa top of the table one May above everyone else - for which read Rafa, Valencia and breaking the Madrid/Barca cartel but does anyone really see O'Neill winning the league with Villa?
spent £50 million the summer before last and finished 1 point more than the season before. Buy's Celluar for £8 million so his record of purcahses is worse than benitez's. He's an ex forest player that should never get any were near the home dugout a anfield. But he jumps about and talks in riddles so that what we need for a manager????
ReplyDeletehttp://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG166394091109-1109.htm
ReplyDeletethis is the article I was talking about.
by the way Jamie, the team you put had only two players from Aston Villa and rest were excisting palyers which means that Rafa got his buying right. please read above article gove me your views on that.
another thing and by this I am not pointing the finger at you but at the press, can it be that some of the criticism of him is because he is a foreign manager. as same has been thrown to amny other foreign managers when the result had gone bad for few matches.
this summer, Hughes, Rednapp, and Oneil were three managers who spent the most in transfers. their team are still pretty mediocre, although they are doing better than us but had not have same bad luck, however I dont see the press having a go at them as much.
finally I am a liverpool fan who go to all the matches and was not born in UK and lived in Spain for many years,(which explains my spelling and grammer mistakes) I have heard from my brother who lives in spain that the reason Benitez wanted to sell alonso last season was that he became aware of him having talks with Real Madrid then and he did not want Alonso doing what Owen did to us with help of Real Madrid,I dont know if that s true but I also know many of the stuff you write are not fact. like when you wrote why Benitez banned Alonso from writing an open letter.
I am now officially turning in my grave.
ReplyDeleteYoung man i do hope you didn't get paid for writing that!?
Why would LFC take a step back in appointing MON
I have been reading your site for a long time now. Can't always agree with you but then you are a true fan no doubt. :)
ReplyDeleteNow at a well funded club like Aston Villa (for the past 3 years atleast) he could not finish above Everton, threw away a European match which started off his rotten second half of the last season. Could you refute these two facts?
Why would it be a step-back?
ReplyDeleteWas it a step back appointing Bill Shankly? Bob Paisley? The managerially untested Kenny Dalglish?
You say that MON won't play long ball with LFC cos thats not what they are used to. But he has done that at every single club he's been at. Why would he change a 'winning' formula if he gets to Liverpool?
ReplyDeleteNeed a manager with good man-management as well as tactical and coaching skills. MON only fulfils one of this criteria. Villa with 4th place in their hands, having got 4 points against Arsenal, threw it away.
Mo - I am not intersted in anything Paul Tomkins has to say, for reasons I have explained at length elsewhere. He is the eternal apologist and the ultimate yes-man, which is fine, but he and I have no time for each other.
ReplyDeletewell said
ReplyDeleteBut he is tested and is he is not good enough. Fact. Were the 3 you have named TESTED!? 2 came from the from "the LFC way" not via WW LC Celtic and Villa! Where quite frankly he has achieved nothing!
ReplyDeleteYes, I can refute those facts:
ReplyDelete1.<span> Villa had the longest unbeaten start of any Premiership side in 2006-07 (9 games), not losing a league game until 28 October. Villa's final points tally was 50, an improvement of 8 over the previous season.
2. In 2007-08, Villa finished 6th. </span>
<span>- They scored 71 goals, (their best ever tally in the Premier League and best tally since winning the title in 1981)</span>
<span>- Gained 60 points which was Villa's highest points tally since the 1996-97 season, and were the 3rd highest goalscorers.
3. After 25 games of the 2008-09 season the club were third in the table on 51 points, 2 points above Chelsea on level games and 7 points above Arsenal in 5th place and on course for a place in the Champions League for the first time since 1983. </span>
<span>4. Villa finished 6th for the second season running with 62 points, 2 more points than they finished with the previous season.</span>
What we have here is incremental improvement in the league every year that O'Neill has been at Villa. Even Benitez does not have such a record.
Given where Villa were before O'Neill came along, they have done very well to keep pace with the top 5/6.
You also seem to ignore his record of over-achievement at his previous clubs.
JK has a bee in his bonnet about MON--always has had. Is it because he's Celtic? Can't be because of his indifferent managerial record.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but this kind of thinking is just pigheaded and inaccurate. You state:
ReplyDeleteWW LC Celtic and Villa! Where quite frankly he has achieved nothing!
This is just completely and utterly wrong. I've highlighted his achievements with those clubs (promotions, league titles etc) - how can you just turn round and say he has 'achieved nothing'.
People with this sort of attitude really beggar belief.
Yes - I argued for 3 years before Benitez was appointed that MON should get the job, and I've argued for the last 5 years that he should get the job when RB leaves.
ReplyDeleteAnd he will - mark my words. MON will be the next Liverpool manager, and Liverpool will win the league with him.
oh please! he has achieved titles in LOWER leagues (that includes the mickey mouse SPL) he has achieved nothing in the best league in the world with as much (if not more) spending power than RB, and he couldn't manage to run a bath with the "big boys"
ReplyDeleteMR K you shouldn't believe everything you write if you don't want to get shot down.
He is not good enough to manage LFC and you know it!
Benetiz has not improved LFC every season?????
ReplyDeleteYou not been watching LFC for the last 5 seasons?
What we have here is incremental improvement in the league every year that O'Neill has been at Villa. Even Benitez does not have such a record.
Read more: <span>http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/11/why-martino-neill-is-right-man-to.html#ixzz0WNH0RpRB</span>
What we have here is incremental improvement in the league every year that O'Neill has been at Villa. Even Benitez does not have such a record.
Read more: <span>http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/11/why-martino-neill-is-right-man-to.html#ixzz0WNH0RpRB</span>
`Martin O Neill is clearly destined for greatness. He is a born winner. He's been there and done it. He's won the European Cup as a player under Brian Clough, a Manager that Bill Shankly admired. Martin O Neill knows what it takes to win at all levels yet the same old tired excuses are repeatedly wheeled out'
ReplyDeleteIm sorry, but am i missing something here?? a born winner? been there & done it?....what has he done exactly? fair play to him for winning the european cup. like many other players, he has achieved this. SHALL we start listing what he hasnt won before we start considering him the ideal successor to rafa? i'm actually a fan of MON, but goin the job he's done at villa, he's no better than Harry Redknapp or David Moyes for me.
I read yours as much his, it does not mean I agree or disagree with everything you or he says.
ReplyDeleteon this point, in my opinion, his defence of Benitez reord is right and your view of MON is worng but that s just my opinion.
I just know that two moths form now, all argument against Benitez would be invalid as we will be in top four aiming to go higher.
I am sure of that. I remember those who were saying Yossi is not big enough to wear a red shirt, I even remember only last season when Yossi brought him on as subs. some fans in front got up and curse him to bring him on, luckily by end of that game, they were quiet as Yossi won us the game and the rest was history.
What year did he win the EPL with these over achieving clubs?
ReplyDeletenever
ReplyDeleteHave you?
ReplyDeletePoints totals over the last 5 years:
04-05: 58 points (5th)
05-06: 82 (3rd)
06-07: 68 (3rd)
07-08: 76 (4th)
08-09: 86 (2nd)
That is not an incremental point improvement every season. We went from 82 points to 68 in 2007, and dropped from 3rd place to 4th in 2008.
Sorry - I can't debating with someone who clearly has no ability to be objective or fair, and who clearly has no capacity to see things clearly (as evidenced by the fact yoou labelled all the trophies he's won as 'achieving nothing). It's just a waste of my time.
ReplyDeleteYou haven't refuted them. You have given incremental increase as a reason for which he could be appointed.
ReplyDeleteHas he finished above Everton once? Just once? Everton have finished above Liverpool once by utilising far less much money than O Neill btw.
He threw away a European match. To achieve a top 4 league position. Would you be happy to have a manager who throws away one trophy for another? Isn't that one of your biggest criticisms of the current incumbent?
And did he achieve a top 4 finish? No Jaimie. He couldn't do that.
if you can't acknowledge MON's achievements and winning mentality then there is no point discussing this with you.
ReplyDeleteYou state:
'what has he done exactly'.
This sums up why discussing this issue with you is an exercise in futility.
you've missed the point - you can't just take a couple of bad things and make them representative of an entire managerial reign. How is that fair? I gave the example of Benitez and the 2004-5 season - we could say that Liverpool failed to qualify for the CL that season, but that is not the whole truth, is it?
ReplyDeleteAnd using one game as a way of tarring him forever is just ridiculous.
Are your point about top 4 finish - Teams outside the traditional top 4 finishing IN the top 4 is the exception, not the rule, and only happens very rarely.
So why should O'Neill be expected to finish in the top 4 ahead of Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea? And given where Villa were before O'Neill took over, is that a realistic possibility? Clearly NO.
Still waiting for a response to your cliched generalisations.
ReplyDeletewould you stop!! a winning mentality, is this being judged on his escentric behaviour on the sidelines or in front of a tv camera??!! ....lest me point something out to you...
ReplyDeletehis win percentage at villa is 40%
And what year did ANY team outside of Arsenal, Chelsea and Man U win the premiership in the last 15 years?!
ReplyDeleteAnd Villa are somehow expected to break that monopoly?
Right, I get where you're coming from.
Rafa and Mourhino are a level above O'Neill.
ReplyDeleteSorry, that's pretty clear to everyone, no one can argue that the Scottish league isn't inferior and that's where O'Neill has had his only real success, whilst simultaneously failing in Europe, which he's continued with glee (and seriously damaging his realtionships with the fans) at Villa.
I realise he's still progressing Villa but he's hardly set the world on fire (understatement) and FWIW I've seen Villa humiliated at Anfield, we played them off the park in 2006 scoring 3 first half goals, there was a 5-0 last season, granted there was a blip this season but *** happens eh.
As for their football under him, it can be nice but it's nothing too special.
As a man manger he's as open to criticsim as any of them and there are some serious questions as to his judgement, not least the Uefa Cup fiasco which I thought was shocking, leaving the club to placate the fans in the embarrassing aftermath.
Sorry I'll take some convincing on this, whilst acknowledging he's a decent manager but I'd take Rafa every time over O'Neill.
He'll go up in my estimation if indeed he does a "Rafa" and puts Villa top of the table one May above everyone else - for which read Rafa, Valencia and breaking the Madrid/Barca cartel but does anyone really see O'Neill winning the league with Villa?
Rafa and Mourhino are a level above O'Neill.
ReplyDeleteSorry, that's pretty clear to everyone, no one can argue that the Scottish league isn't inferior and that's where O'Neill has had his only real success, whilst simultaneously failing in Europe, which he's continued with glee (and seriously damaging his realtionships with the fans) at Villa.
I realise he's still progressing Villa but he's hardly set the world on fire (understatement) and FWIW I've seen Villa humiliated at Anfield, we played them off the park in 2006 scoring 3 first half goals, there was a 5-0 last season, granted there was a blip this season but *** happens eh.
As for their football under him, it can be nice but it's nothing too special.
As a man manger he's as open to criticsim as any of them and there are some serious questions as to his judgement, not least the Uefa Cup fiasco which I thought was shocking, leaving the club to placate the fans in the embarrassing aftermath.
Sorry I'll take some convincing on this, whilst acknowledging he's a decent manager but I'd take Rafa every time over O'Neill.
He'll go up in my estimation if indeed he does a "Rafa" and puts Villa top of the table one May above everyone else - for which read Rafa, Valencia and breaking the Madrid/Barca cartel but does anyone really see O'Neill winning the league with Villa?
Rafa and Mourhino are a level above O'Neill.
ReplyDeleteSorry, that's pretty clear to everyone, no one can argue that the Scottish league isn't inferior and that's where O'Neill has had his only real success, whilst simultaneously failing in Europe, which he's continued with glee (and seriously damaging his realtionships with the fans) at Villa.
I realise he's still progressing Villa but he's hardly set the world on fire (understatement) and FWIW I've seen Villa humiliated at Anfield, we played them off the park in 2006 scoring 3 first half goals, there was a 5-0 last season, granted there was a blip this season but *** happens eh.
As for their football under him, it can be nice but it's nothing too special.
As a man manger he's as open to criticsim as any of them and there are some serious questions as to his judgement, not least the Uefa Cup fiasco which I thought was shocking, leaving the club to placate the fans in the embarrassing aftermath.
Sorry I'll take some convincing on this, whilst acknowledging he's a decent manager but I'd take Rafa every time over O'Neill.
He'll go up in my estimation if indeed he does a "Rafa" and puts Villa top of the table one May above everyone else - for which read Rafa, Valencia and breaking the Madrid/Barca cartel but does anyone really see O'Neill winning the league with Villa?
JK you know your wrong but as usual you think your not, the fact is I will wager any amount of money you want that MON will never mange LFC put your money where you mouth is? thats how confident i am that your article is so flawed
ReplyDeleteStop being so narrow-minded and consider the winning mentality comment in the context of his entire career.
ReplyDeleteAnd please post the source for the 40% win percentage. Thanks.
Jk Villa were a mid-table team and still are, so what is your point?
ReplyDeleteAs everyone who reads through the thread of our conversation will see, it is your thought-process and objectivity that are flawed here, not my post.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_O'Neill
ReplyDeleteA mid-table team? Right - that must explain why they've finished 6th for the last two season and are currently 5th in the table...above Liverpool.
ReplyDeleteDo you care at all about saying *anything* that's accurate, or do you just make it up as you go along?!
Rafa is good enough for Liverpool. Technically sound and a winner. forget O' Neil.
ReplyDeleteHahahahahahaha......
ReplyDeleteCome on Jamie, what are you on?
MON better than Rafa, are you his PR agent? Seriously though, MON is not an awful manager but anyone who knows football knows that he is nowhere near good enough to be compared with Rafa. Further, anyone who really understands Liverpool Fooball Club would also know that MON is not and never will be the right kind of man for the managers job.
It seems I next to never agree with your opinions and I find your constant anti Rafa sentiments at odds with what the vast majority of Liverpool supporters actually feel. Example, 'Thisis Anfield', one of the oldest and most respected fans forum ran a poll about 3 or so years ago to see the level of support Rafa had. Results were 85% of fans were behind him. They ran a similar poll a few weeks back and he still held 82% support, even during this media frenzy, of which you are party to Jamie, unfortunately.
Also, what is your problem with Tomkins? He is by far the most respected Liverpool journalist and has proven to love the club and patently spends a hell of a lot of time with his research. To call him a 'yes man' because he takes a more 'supportive' stance where LFC is concerned than yourself is rubbish. (notice the meaning of the word 'supportive' ie as in being a 'supporter'). For you to say you have no time for him speaks volumes.
Just to recap....MON for Rafa.....you must be mad :)
1234 top? 567891011121314151617 middle? 181920 bottom? i don't make that up do I?
ReplyDeleteCurrently above LFC......when did the season finish in November or is that another thing i have made up?
JK why do you try to belittle people debating with you?
C'mon name a price for a wager if you are so confident?
ReplyDelete"Martin O Neill is clearly destined for greatness. He is a born winner. He's been there and done it. He's won the European Cup as a player under Brian Clough, a Manager that Bill Shankly admired. Martin O Neill knows what it takes to win at all levels yet the same old tired excuses are repeatedly wheeled out"
ReplyDeleteGraeme Souness won the European Cup 3 times with Liverpool and he was a cracking manag...oh no hang on.
MON is a good manager but I doubt he has the ability to manage Liverpool, Chelsea or Manchester United. He's tactically naive in Europe and his error in the UEFA Cup last season was the beginning of the end for Aston Villa's season. They would have been in the CL this season were it not for the terrible run they went on which coincided with MON's ridiculous decisions in the UEFA Cup.
My point exaxtly RB has come very close but that doesn't matter because MON is the messiah!! NOT
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately you missed Blackburn but hey ho.
Last season till February, they were in pole position for 4th. They did not get it and choked.
ReplyDeleteAlso, what about the finances involved? O'Neill has had more money than Moyes has had and yet could not finish above them once Not even ONCE Jaimie.
Jaimie of all the managers out there, if you had said Mark Hughes or Steve Bruce I would have been mighty impressed. Even David Moyes.
ReplyDeleteBut Martin O'Neill? I just think this is one of your off days. :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_O%27Neill
ReplyDeleteMON's win ratio is 40% which isn't worthy of Liverpool FC to he honest.
Interesting line-up you've got there Jaimie.
ReplyDeleteThe only disagreement I would have (which is bound to generate a lot of counter-disagreement here) is Carra.
As much as he's the beloved local hero who's been the consumate devoted servant to the club, but anybody who's not wearing those rose-colored glasses that you love to (sometimes righteously) accuse Liverpudlian fans of not being able to take off, will admit that he's lost more than a step this Season, and much like Ferdinand at Manure, he's probably not going to get it back.
No disrespect to a player with unquestioned heart but truth be told, unlike Sammi Hyppia who, over time was able to compensate to his age and lost pace with a footballing intelligence and tactical awareness that gifted him the longetivity and effectiveness we now badly miss, Carragher is not and has never been that type of player. Hyppia would pass the ball out of defence to another player or to the midfielders to start a Liverpool attack - Carragher on the other hand always always hooves it aimlessly upfield just to get it out of the Liverpool area, which almost always inevitebly starts another opposition attack since his accuracy is just never there. And whereas Hyppia always had the awareness and positioning to allow him to recover if he got beaten for pace by a faster player, how many times this Season have we witnessed Carragher getting beaten only to turn around and either foul the player or blatantly bring them down as he did at Fulham and as he did to Owen.
At the end of the day, I believe there's more hope in rescusitating Skrtel back to his form of last year (with better stewardship than he's getting now), and training him to be a future replacement for Carragher, than there is in hoping that Carragher will somehow recover his lost form. The form isn't the problem; - its the footballing intelligence, and sorry to say, but it just wasn't there to begin with.
On the flip side, 2 thumbs up for dropping Kuyt from the squad, who (IMO) is another of the over-rated "hard workers" that hasn't really produced the form (read goals and creativity ala Benayoun) he was supposed to, or was expected to when he was brought over here.
well said. totally agree with you. he is the most overated manager I know in premier league, and he has the best press for whatever reason but his winning percentage is not that high.
ReplyDeletehis style of football had been long ball and according to records about 60 percent of their goals this season has come from dead ball and corners.
I think it s madness when one of the most respected mangers in Europe is ours and many big european clubs would love to have him as thier manager and we are talking about a second rate manager which his achievemnt are no way near or comparable to Benitez.
Blackburn won the PL in 94-5, which is 15 years ago.
ReplyDeleteSo positions 5 and 6 in the table are mid table?! You're having a laugh, right?
ReplyDeleteMid table is (IMO) 8-15.
Please provide evidence that MON has had more money than Moyes.
ReplyDelete<p><span><span>Jamie you make some good points about MON's career and how he has achieved some success wherever he has been.<span> </span></span></span>
ReplyDelete</p><p><span> </span>
</p><p><span><span>But we already have a GREAT manager.<span> </span>Rafa isn't the reason we aren't winning the league.<span> </span>He's the reason we almost won the league last season against ALL the odds.<span> </span>He is also the reason why we were recently ranked no. 1 in Europe by UEFA.<span> </span></span></span>
</p><p><span> </span>
</p><p><span><span>People need to start realising we have no divine right to win the league.<span> </span>It's quite simple.<span> </span>WE DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY!!!<span> </span>We've got a manager who is constantly overachieving and we MUST stand by him when we're having a bad spell.<span> </span><span> </span></span></span>
</p><p><span> </span>
</p><p><span><span>I have heard many experts / pundits criticise Benitez for his lack of squad depth.<span> </span>Do they really think Rafa was given the option of spending far more on his squad but said 'no thanks'? <span> </span>He didn't buy David Ngog b/c he thinks he's better than David Villa just like I didn't buy my Ford Fiesta b/c I think it's better than a Ferrari.<span> </span><span> </span></span></span>
</p><p><span> </span>
</p><p><span><span>I think everyone needs to get behind Rafa and stop letting these cretins on Sky and in the papers taint our great manager with their ridiculous and unfounded criticisms. </span></span>
</p><p><span> </span></p>
So you'd have an ex-manc in charge at Anfield. Blasphemy ;)
ReplyDeleteAnd re O'Neill - we shall see. I have a knack for predicting things correctly (just ask my LFC supporting friends). I predicted the following:
1. At the end of the 2002 season (when LFC finished 5th), I predicted that Liverpool would finish 5th in 2002-3.
2. I predicted in 2001 that Houllier would leave in 2004.
3. I predicted that Liverpool would win the CL in 2005 (I said this at the start of the season).
4. I predicted that Robbie Keane would leave after 1 season at Anfield (It was sooner than that but you get my dri
Etc etc.
I predict MON will be the next Liverpool Manager. You can refer back to this post when it comes true ;)
here, here......spot on matt..rafa can only deal with the hand he's given. he has made some bad signings, but show me a manager that hasnt.
ReplyDeleteI'll bet you 500 pounds that MON will be the next LFC manager.
ReplyDeletein your opinion! not in mine
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry but I do not agree with your view that Benitez should walk or be fired at the end of the season if we do not qualify for the champions league.
ReplyDeleteFirstly I would like to state that yes, he is far from perfect, and we could all list his flaws easily. But who else could have done a better job since taking over in 2004? No one.
Jamie i'd like you to apply your judgement on Shankly, Ferguson and Wenger. Shankly was too stubborn and loyal to the first successful side he built to the point that by 1969 it had run it's course. There was a long gap between titles under Shanks remember. If you apply your 'Benitez' logic you'd have been calling for Shank's head.
Ferguson - I could point to 2 examples. In the late 80's he took Utd to 2nd - and when it seemed like they would make the next step they fell off big time and it would be a further 5 season's before they won the league.
Again your logic would of had him leave during this barren spell.
And again from 2004 to 2007 when Ferguson made some horrendous and expensive signings and finished bottom of their Champions league group.
Had you logic been applied he'd of gone then too.
Wenger - no trophy since 2005 after a great deal of success. Again you'd be saying he should go too.
So please consider these examples and think again. Be careful what you wish for. Cos I certainly believe that even if we fail to achieve our expectations this season, as these examples show that patients and support from the fans and board can go alot further than changing the manager and starting again.
Thanks
Where did I say that MON is 'better than Benitez'?
ReplyDeleteit's not about being better - both have their own skills and qualities. I feel the current team is suffering from Benitez's poor man-management skills (amongst other things).
And re Tomkins: His attitude is what gets m back up. Example: I once posted a comment on one of his articles. I'd never had any dealings with him before prior to this. He was arguing how Fergie was given more time than Rafa to win the title. I argued against that view in a fair, non-confrontational manner.
Tomkins deleted by comment, thenposted one of his own slagging me and this site of in a personal manner.
Despite the fact I have never had any direct dealings with him, he continues to slag me off in a personal manner on Twitter.
All of this is completely unprovoked, and unprofessional.
It is not that what he said offended me - it is the principle of it. In ligfe, I wouldn't have any time for someone like that, so what makes being online any different.
Since then, I have no time for his opinions. Why should I?
I am totally 100% with you on that Matt.
ReplyDeleteI think considering to replace Rafa is just madness. he had proved again and again he is the best man for the job.
based that our financial situation if he left it would be disaster for us.
in regard to MON. I think he is in much lower league than Benitez.
its like oif you compare your ford feista to ferrai.
We are lucky to have him as our manger.
finally do you really think if Rafa was not here, Torres will stay in Liverpool. Many palyers consider coming to liverpool becasue of his reputation in europe, I think that there were other clubs offering Torress more money to go there and he said no and this summer, MAN city wanted him but he stayed and one of main reasons was Rafa
The article seem quite ok for me. But i personally think that Laurent Blanc should be the next liverpool manager. But in any case, Rafa is a class manager and we will regret it if he goes to madrid. I think he must have 2 more years to win the Premiership..
ReplyDeleteI will look forward to how he proceeds this season Jaimie. If he can finish above Everton and knock out ManU once, I can warm up to the fact of him taking over two years down the line.
ReplyDeleteHey Jaimie. Making a habit of this disagreeing I think!
ReplyDeleteI can see your logic behind the argument but he remains a largely unproven manager at the top level. I am always surprised when I see him mentioned as a successor to SAF.
Unproven is the key word here. Yes he has had success at getting the most from teams and I agree it's probably through his man management that he gets an extra 10% from ordinary players. His success in Scotland and the league cups, I'm afraid, need to be discounted to some degree. Both the league and cups mentioned are not as competitive as the main European leagues and cups. Proven by Celtic never getting past the group stages.
Villa have finished below Everton in each of the seasons with resources some would argue in excess of Moyes. He has also only had to man manage good players and not world class stars, a different ball game altogether IMO.
Tactically I do not believe he is astute as Rafa, which is where Rafa currently excels.
For these reasons it would be to much of a gamble for the board of LFC to make this appointment. I also expect that Rafa will win the Premiership given time. :)
1. Comparing Shankly with Benitez is invalid. Liverpool were in the 2nd division when he arrived; the facilities/stadium etc were substandard and money was scarce. This is the complete opposite to Benitez's situation. He arrrived at a club in a comparatively superb position: excellent facilities, professional players, lots of money etc. There is no fair comparison. Given the state of Liverpool when Shankly arrived, of course he should've been given more time!
ReplyDeleteIf Liverpool were in the Cmahmpionsship when Benitez arrived then it would be a fair comparison.
2. Ferguson: Same principle as above. When he arrived, United were plagued by indiscipline and debilitating drinking culture. These things had to be eradicated before United could seriously move forward. Benitez had no such problems to deal with.
Furthermore, Man U had not won the first division title for 26 years when Ferguson arrived, and they did not have anything approaching Liverpool's dominance in the past. That's 26 years of failure to contend with.
Liverpool had not won the league for only 14 years when Benitez arrived, and had 2 decades of dominance before the barren spell.
I would argue that Liverpool were in a better position to be successful when Benitez took over than Man U wneh ferguson took over, for the reaqsons I've outlined above.
Re the 2004-07 period for United. Ferguson had earned the right to be given that time! He'd already won 8 league titles by that time (!). Ferguson had PROVED that he has what it takes to win the league. Of course you're going to give him time during that period!
3. Wenger - Once again, Wenger has earned the right to be given time in the league. he has three premiership titles to his name; he has proved that he can build a squad capable of winning the title. Plus, Arsenal are the envy of the world for their style of play, just like Liverpool used to be (especially in the late 80s).
Bottom line: managers who win titles and PROVE they can win titles earn the right to be given time.
Souness couldn't do it; Evans couldn't do; Houllier couldn't do it in 6 years; benitez hasn;t done it, and is unlikely to do it this season.
6 years is long enough. There is no room for sentiment. What happens next season when Benitez doesn't win it again?! The man United 'but ferguson had 7 years excuse' expires after that. What are fans going to use then?!
1. Shankly/Benitez is not a valid comparison. Liverpool were in the 2nd division when he arrived; the facilities/stadium etc were substandard and money was scarce. This is the complete opposite to Benitez's situation. He arrived at a club in a comparatively superb position: excellent facilities, professional players, lots of money etc. There is no fair comparison. Given the state of Liverpool when Shankly arrived, of course he should've been given more time!
ReplyDeleteIf Liverpool were in the Championship when Benitez arrived then it would be a fair comparison.
2. Ferguson: Same principle as above. When he arrived, United were plagued by indiscipline and debilitating drinking culture. These things had to be eradicated before United could seriously move forward. Benitez had no such problems to deal with.
Furthermore, Man U had not won the first division title for 26 years when Ferguson arrived, and they did not have anything approaching Liverpool's dominance in the past. That's 26 years of failure to contend with.
Liverpool had not won the league for only 14 years when Benitez arrived, and had 2 decades of dominance before the barren spell.
I would argue that Liverpool were in a better position to be successful when Benitez took over than Man U when Ferguson took over, for the reasons I've outlined above.
Re the 2004-07 period for United. Ferguson had earned the right to be given that time! He'd already won 8 league titles by that time (!). Ferguson had PROVED that he has what it takes to win the league. Of course you're going to give him time during that period!
3. Wenger - Once again, Wenger has earned the right to be given time in the league. He has three premiership titles to his name; he has proved that he can build a squad capable of winning the title. Plus, Arsenal are the envy of the world for their style of play, just like Liverpool used to be (especially in the late 80s).
Bottom line: managers who win titles and PROVE they can win titles earn the right to be given time.
Souness couldn't do it; Evans couldn't do; Houllier couldn't do it in 6 years; benitez hasn’t done it, and is unlikely to do it this season.
6 years is long enough. There is no room for sentiment. What happens next season when Benitez doesn't win it again?! The man United 'but Ferguson had 7 years excuse' expires after that. What are fans going to use then?!
OH Jamie!!!
ReplyDeleteGive me one LOGICAL reason why Liverpool should win the title.
You are prepared to cut MON some slack for not finishing inside the top 4 but don't you think it's also unrealistic to expect Liverpool to win the league given the size and strength of Man Utd and Chelsea?
Surely you can see they've got more money?
i tend to agree with you jamie, i do like MON man management style, he tells people they are the best and they believe it, that could do wonders for the likes of torres an gerrards and even kuyts confidence, i believe he would get the best out of "squad" players and he is also capable giving a kick up the arse if needed just ask reo-coker, i would have a few misgivings because he is not tested at the highest level, but like you say nor were shankly, paisley et al..... i would love to see a british manager at liverpool (except for big sam..personal reasons the guy is fergies b**ch) in my top list of 4 candidates i would personally have in no particular order and all mainly for the same reason-give the players the confidence and they will walk through walls for you, these managers man management skills are second to non my top 4 are mourinho hiddink MON and maybe controvertially 'arry redknapp. well this is my opinion now and there are also a few guys who could do the job in the future but not yet, roy hodgeson is a wonderful manager as i believe is (dont shoot me) steve bruce, mancini could do a job but he's italian i dont like italian football.
ReplyDeleteDisagreement is fine :-)
ReplyDeleteI disagree that Rafa is more tactically astute. In Europe perhaps, but the Premiership? How many times have we had to deal with the consequences of Benitez alleged tactical brilliance? Whether it's untested formation, square pegs in round holes, strange substitutions etc, he is very far from tactically astute in the league, and we have seen that countless times, especially this season.
And I don't see how the league cup and success in Scotland should be discounted. The relative strength, expectations and financial resources of both Leicester and Celtic need to be taken into account.
Leicester were a newly promoted club and reached the League Cup final 3 years out of 4 (winning twice). This is a fantastic achievement and just dismissing it seems unfair.
The league cup/Scottish league may not be competitive as the main European Cups/leagues but surely it is all relative. Given the quality of Leicester/Celtic's squads and the expectations/finances available, the league cups and the Scottish league are competitive competitions, are they not?
Moyes has been at Everton much longer than O'Neill, so he's had more time to build a stable team. Also, it is fairer to compare like for like here:
Moyes first 4 years at Everton:
7th
17th
4th
11th
O'Neill's first 4 years at Villa
15th
6th
6th
Currently 5th
Moyes has not been a pauper either. He has broken Everton's transfer record on 4 occasions:
James Beattie for £6 million in January 20
Andy Johnson for £8.6 million in summer 2006
Yakubu Aiyegbeni for £11.25 million in summer 2007
Marouane Fellaini for £15 million in September 2008.
And O'Neill managed Henrik Larsson at Celtic, a world class striker, without any problem. There is no evidence to suggest that he couldn't handle world class stars.
jeez lad, you're missing the point quoting Paisley who was a significant part of the successful shankly years.
ReplyDeleteDitto Dalglish who was groomed & subsequently guided by Paisley.
Surely you know this?
so its as I said, they're progressing slowly.
ReplyDeleteWow.
Even the "useless" Rafa has bettered that.
When do you predict Villa will smash the 80 points barrier under O'Neill?
your'e clutching at straws there mate.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, are you advocating selling Torres?
ReplyDeleteCos there is no way we can get two young very good attacking players for less than 50 mil.
Maybe now you'll understand why "sell to buy" policy is so hindrancing for the team.
This is the policy Benitez has been working all the time.
there's little doubt he's a good manager but as a replacement for Rafa?
ReplyDeleteFrankly its pretty loathsome for you to this post topic, we have a perfectly decent manager who clearly is considerably better than O'Neill, his track record proves this, surely you acknowledge this?
So I'd retort (if I had to) why O'Neill?
there are better managers out there, one of them is the current LFC manager, lets stick with him, lets get behind his cause, not the effin "enemy".
that says it all, scandalous that he threw away the Uefa cup.
ReplyDeleteaimie, are you advocating selling Torres?
ReplyDeleteCos there is no way we can get two young very good attacking players for less than 50 mil.
Maybe now you'll understand why "sell to buy" policy is so hindrancing for the team.
This is the policy Benitez has been working under all the time.
He needed to sell good players to get better (and quick sell unevitable bed signings to cut the loses).
50m for Young and Agbonlahor? I think not.
ReplyDeleteRemind me - who did Benitez have to sell to buy Torres? Who did he have to sell to buy Keane?
If money had been spent better, we'd have a better squad now. Do you deny that?
Theres nothing wrong with Rafas man management, so he had a (rumoured) spat with Alonso, shit happens.
ReplyDeleteferguson has fallen out with numerous players/managers, Wenger, Mourhino, Rijkaard, O'NEILL!, it happens, get over it.
Nothing wrong with Paul Tomkins, he writes some great stuff and is very balanced, measured and accurate, yes if there's a criticism its that he'd rather look at the positives than the negatives, so he's an optimist, great, we can read you for the negatives.
There's no hysteria and hype with Tomkins.
Principles?
Yeah right, I remember Maggie Thatcher, she had principles as well.
Jaimie, u continue to harp on about MON. his win percentage at villa is 40%. how can you fathom that as successful & more so, how can you want a manager with that win percentage at your club?..
ReplyDeletenothing wrong with rafas man management? bellamy, crouch, pennant, alonso, babel and plenty of others would have something to say about that, have you read steven gerrards book? he says i will get a well done off rafa if its the last thing i do, the man is cold towards the players he rarely gives them compliments he always focus's on the negative instead of saying well done, he says "you could have done it better this way" players would run thru walls for MON and mourinho and one or 2 others,
ReplyDelete"50m for Young and Agbonlahor? I think not. "
ReplyDeleteSo how much you think? They are English young and good, and theirs contracts are nowhere near end.
Barry's price was 18 mil last year. Johnson, Bosingwa, Zirkov - all costed about 18 mil. How much would cost attaking players?
"If money had been spent better, we'd have a better squad now. Do you deny that?"
Of course I dont deny.
If you picked right numbres last week's lottery I would be a millinaire. Do you deny that?
You say Benitez wrongly allocated about 60 mil. Ok. But he alocated well, very well, or extremely well 160 mil.
Of course Benitez could do better. But tell me Jaimie, realisticly: what is acceptable % of mistakes?
"Remind me - who did Benitez have to sell to buy Torres?"
Craig Bellamy, Djibril Cisse, Mark Gonzalez, Luis Garcia...
Benitez need sell to buy - this is a fact.
This fact is partially responsible for Alonso's leaving - Benitez needed money to buy Barry. In normal club trying to get the title 18 mil for a good player shouldnt be a problem. We should have Barry to cover LM/CM/LB and make competition in this positions. But we couldnt affort it. Have you any doubts Benitez wanted Barry?
Edit:
ReplyDelete"If you picked right numbres last week's lottery I would be a millinaire. Do you deny that"
should be:
"If you picked right numbres last week's lottery YOU would be a millinaire. Do you deny that?"
In the time Rafa has been at Liverpool his percentage of wins has been exactly the same as Alex Ferguson's (see Tomkins' most recent article). How will MON better that? And how, in these circumstances, say that he is better in the PL than RB?
ReplyDeleteMON has less resources and different targets so we cannot compare him to us.
ReplyDeleteWe can compare him to Redknap or Moyes.
By the way, regarding your "predictions" are you claiming to have special powers of divination? MON will never manage Liverpool: and if he did, he wouldn't last very long (another Kevin Keegan "up and at them" type)
ReplyDeleteHi Jaimie. Fair comments re: Moyes 'v' O'Neill.
ReplyDeleteWhen I said discounted I wasn't saying they should be ignored. simply that there is a 'pedigree' required for each contest. The pedigree is not that high in Scottish football so the importance associated should be reduced. For example I suspect any of the top 8 English teams could win everything in Scotland.
The pedigree is IMO very important in the Rafa 'v' O'Neill argument. Let me explain.
O'Neill in 22 years has won three top league titles in Scotland. Rafa by comparison within his 14 years has only won two, but in Spain which has a far more competitive league. O'Neill has won nothing in Europe while Rafa has won the Champions League, Uefa Cup and the Super Cup. However for the sake of balance O'Neill has won 6 domestic cups while Rafa has only won 2. Although one of these was the FA cup!
In summary while O'Neill has won a greater quantity of title and cups (12 against 9) you surely cannot dispute that Rafa in 8 years less time has won a greater quality of silverware. It is the quality of silverware that has driven his career to managing one of the top clubs in the world and held O'Neill back.
Under O'Neill I suspect our league form would not improve, we would falter in Europe (our greatest prize money earner?) but we'd win the league cup quite regularly.
you have a bet
ReplyDeleteI really wouldn't that keen on O'Neill. It's ironic that you have reposted you article from 2004, when I would have agreed with you, but I just feel that the LFC gig is above his station. Sure he is a nice man and a good motivator, but I just can't see it.
ReplyDeleteIf we were to put Benitez into O'Neills previous roles, I would wager that he would better Martin's achievements. I would like Rafa to take a leaf from O'Neill's man-management book, but Benitez isn't exactly struggling with men lacking motivation - he struggles with attacking emphases.
I think that Rafa avoids players who might have self-doubt, so never has to go down the road of putting his arm around player's shoulders. Were as O'Neill believes he can change a player's mentality.
I'd take Kenny back in a flash - way ahead of O'Neill.
no reasonng with him he is right and that's it!! MON will be LFC manager and thats it!
ReplyDeletehttp://robbohuyton.blogspot.com/2009/10/revealed-most-negative-liverpool-fc.html
ReplyDeleteSOME of you may be aware of the blog Liverpool-Kop, run by Jaimie Kanwar, who claims to be a fan of Liverpool Football Club.
Well Oniell is a good manager, may be he can replace benitez, but i dnt think benitez should be sacked. We shouldnt talk about replacing the manager. Was the managers tactics which failed last night? Was his motivatin not enouhg? Its individual mistakes and luck which isn thelping liverpool right now and when the fans and the media go around talking about such things it brings more pressure to the team. Everyone who critisises just do it cos they are frustrated or dont like the man personally.
ReplyDeleteIf you analyse Benitez as a manager he is at the same level as Wenger and Fergie. He is at the top. His win% other stats and he had won trophies with liverpool too. As a team eveyteam faces such times under any manager. Look at Arsenal. Last season at this time they were at the same situation as liverpool and many were calling for Arsens head. and if he was sacked would Arsenal be where they are right now? I dnt think so. Evene MAnchester untd had such times under Fergie. IF he was sacked would he be so sucsesful with them?
Well think about this. Last night the manager picked the best team he could and tried everythin he had in his power to win the game. Could he have started Aquilani? I say no. you could see from the 10 mins Aquilani he wasnt anywhere near the fitness level. An unfit Steven Gerrad looked more fitter than Aquillani. So he was right to start with lucas, though i personally feel if someone like Alonso was in the team we would have won the game. Even a fit Aquilani could have made the difference. But lucas is what we got at the moment and the manager is doing a pretty good job with him.
A manager knows his players better than anyone of us. He got critised for starting with Voronin at lyon. Honestly i thought the problem with Voronin that night was he tried too much. So were the whole team lastnight even. IF the team had relaxed and not rushed things to finish of the game i think we would have won it comfortably. When we talked about player leaving such as Crouch, Keane and Alonso. There was nothin the manager can do to stop them. They wanted to leave and once a player wants to leave no one can stop. Could Martin Oniel stop Gerath Barry? Could David Moyes stop Lescot? Could Fergie stop Ronaldo? Could Wenger stop Toure? So Alonso, Crouch and Keane leavin wasnt Benitez fault. The players wanted to leave. So they did, but then the manager didnt get enough money to buy the replcements. You can argue Alonso wanted to leave cos of Benitez wanting to sell him previous year. May be true. At that time the manager tought Barry would have done a better job at liverpool. We cant critisize the man for that. He knows his team better than anyone. So may be he was right. Alonso became world famous the next season and by then Benitez wanted to stop him leaving, but then the player didnt want to. So he left. If we could have held on to peter Crouch it would be perfect today. But he wanted more regular football and at that time Gerrad and Toress were fit almost everygame and no one can fault Benitez for starting his best two attackin players instead of Crouch. So he wanted to leave to play more football. Simply the manager couldnt stop him.
So lest not critisise the manager and plaeyers and get behind them. Lets support our team and help the team get behind the team and help them turn around this bad run. Thats what we supporters need to do. Not to bring extra pressure. When you critisise the manager and call for his head even the players feel it. So lets win together and lose togheter as a faily help our team to overcome this bad run.
Well Oniell is a good manager, may be he can replace benitez, but i dnt think benitez should be sacked. We shouldnt talk about replacing the manager. Was the managers tactics which failed last night? Was his motivatin not enouhg? Its individual mistakes and luck which isn thelping liverpool right now and when the fans and the media go around talking about such things it brings more pressure to the team. Everyone who critisises just do it cos they are frustrated or dont like the man personally.
ReplyDeleteIf you analyse Benitez as a manager he is at the same level as Wenger and Fergie. He is at the top. His win% other stats and he had won trophies with liverpool too. As a team eveyteam faces such times under any manager. Look at Arsenal. Last season at this time they were at the same situation as liverpool and many were calling for Arsens head. and if he was sacked would Arsenal be where they are right now? I dnt think so. Evene MAnchester untd had such times under Fergie. IF he was sacked would he be so sucsesful with them?
Well think about this. Last night the manager picked the best team he could and tried everythin he had in his power to win the game. Could he have started Aquilani? I say no. you could see from the 10 mins Aquilani he wasnt anywhere near the fitness level. An unfit Steven Gerrad looked more fitter than Aquillani. So he was right to start with lucas, though i personally feel if someone like Alonso was in the team we would have won the game. Even a fit Aquilani could have made the difference. But lucas is what we got at the moment and the manager is doing a pretty good job with him.
A manager knows his players better than anyone of us. He got critised for starting with Voronin at lyon. Honestly i thought the problem with Voronin that night was he tried too much. So were the whole team lastnight even. IF the team had relaxed and not rushed things to finish of the game i think we would have won it comfortably. When we talked about player leaving such as Crouch, Keane and Alonso. There was nothin the manager can do to stop them. They wanted to leave and once a player wants to leave no one can stop. Could Martin Oniel stop Gerath Barry? Could David Moyes stop Lescot? Could Fergie stop Ronaldo? Could Wenger stop Toure? So Alonso, Crouch and Keane leavin wasnt Benitez fault. The players wanted to leave. So they did, but then the manager didnt get enough money to buy the replcements. You can argue Alonso wanted to leave cos of Benitez wanting to sell him previous year. May be true. At that time the manager tought Barry would have done a better job at liverpool. We cant critisize the man for that. He knows his team better than anyone. So may be he was right. Alonso became world famous the next season and by then Benitez wanted to stop him leaving, but then the player didnt want to. So he left. If we could have held on to peter Crouch it would be perfect today. But he wanted more regular football and at that time Gerrad and Toress were fit almost everygame and no one can fault Benitez for starting his best two attackin players instead of Crouch. So he wanted to leave to play more football. Simply the manager couldnt stop him.
So lest not critisise the manager and plaeyers and get behind them. Lets support our team and help the team get behind the team and help them turn around this bad run. Thats what we supporters need to do. Not to bring extra pressure. When you critisise the manager and call for his head even the players feel it. So lets win together and lose togheter as a faily help our team to overcome this bad run.
Well Oniell is a good manager, may be he can replace benitez, but i dnt think benitez should be sacked. We shouldnt talk about replacing the manager. Was the managers tactics which failed last night? Was his motivatin not enouhg? Its individual mistakes and luck which isn thelping liverpool right now and when the fans and the media go around talking about such things it brings more pressure to the team. Everyone who critisises just do it cos they are frustrated or dont like the man personally.
ReplyDeleteIf you analyse Benitez as a manager he is at the same level as Wenger and Fergie. He is at the top. His win% other stats and he had won trophies with liverpool too. As a team eveyteam faces such times under any manager. Look at Arsenal. Last season at this time they were at the same situation as liverpool and many were calling for Arsens head. and if he was sacked would Arsenal be where they are right now? I dnt think so. Evene MAnchester untd had such times under Fergie. IF he was sacked would he be so sucsesful with them?
Well think about this. Last night the manager picked the best team he could and tried everythin he had in his power to win the game. Could he have started Aquilani? I say no. you could see from the 10 mins Aquilani he wasnt anywhere near the fitness level. An unfit Steven Gerrad looked more fitter than Aquillani. So he was right to start with lucas, though i personally feel if someone like Alonso was in the team we would have won the game. Even a fit Aquilani could have made the difference. But lucas is what we got at the moment and the manager is doing a pretty good job with him.
A manager knows his players better than anyone of us. He got critised for starting with Voronin at lyon. Honestly i thought the problem with Voronin that night was he tried too much. So were the whole team lastnight even. IF the team had relaxed and not rushed things to finish of the game i think we would have won it comfortably. When we talked about player leaving such as Crouch, Keane and Alonso. There was nothin the manager can do to stop them. They wanted to leave and once a player wants to leave no one can stop. Could Martin Oniel stop Gerath Barry? Could David Moyes stop Lescot? Could Fergie stop Ronaldo? Could Wenger stop Toure? So Alonso, Crouch and Keane leavin wasnt Benitez fault. The players wanted to leave. So they did, but then the manager didnt get enough money to buy the replcements. You can argue Alonso wanted to leave cos of Benitez wanting to sell him previous year. May be true. At that time the manager tought Barry would have done a better job at liverpool. We cant critisize the man for that. He knows his team better than anyone. So may be he was right. Alonso became world famous the next season and by then Benitez wanted to stop him leaving, but then the player didnt want to. So he left. If we could have held on to peter Crouch it would be perfect today. But he wanted more regular football and at that time Gerrad and Toress were fit almost everygame and no one can fault Benitez for starting his best two attackin players instead of Crouch. So he wanted to leave to play more football. Simply the manager couldnt stop him.
So lest not critisise the manager and plaeyers and get behind them. Lets support our team and help the team get behind the team and help them turn around this bad run. Thats what we supporters need to do. Not to bring extra pressure. When you critisise the manager and call for his head even the players feel it. So lets win together and lose togheter as a faily help our team to overcome this bad run.
Well Oniell is a good manager, may be he can replace benitez, but i dnt think benitez should be sacked. We shouldnt talk about replacing the manager. Was the managers tactics which failed last night? Was his motivatin not enouhg? Its individual mistakes and luck which isn thelping liverpool right now and when the fans and the media go around talking about such things it brings more pressure to the team. Everyone who critisises just do it cos they are frustrated or dont like the man personally.
ReplyDeleteIf you analyse Benitez as a manager he is at the same level as Wenger and Fergie. He is at the top. His win% other stats and he had won trophies with liverpool too. As a team eveyteam faces such times under any manager. Look at Arsenal. Last season at this time they were at the same situation as liverpool and many were calling for Arsens head. and if he was sacked would Arsenal be where they are right now? I dnt think so. Evene MAnchester untd had such times under Fergie. IF he was sacked would he be so sucsesful with them?
Well think about this. Last night the manager picked the best team he could and tried everythin he had in his power to win the game. Could he have started Aquilani? I say no. you could see from the 10 mins Aquilani he wasnt anywhere near the fitness level. An unfit Steven Gerrad looked more fitter than Aquillani. So he was right to start with lucas, though i personally feel if someone like Alonso was in the team we would have won the game. Even a fit Aquilani could have made the difference. But lucas is what we got at the moment and the manager is doing a pretty good job with him.
A manager knows his players better than anyone of us. He got critised for starting with Voronin at lyon. Honestly i thought the problem with Voronin that night was he tried too much. So were the whole team lastnight even. IF the team had relaxed and not rushed things to finish of the game i think we would have won it comfortably. When we talked about player leaving such as Crouch, Keane and Alonso. There was nothin the manager can do to stop them. They wanted to leave and once a player wants to leave no one can stop. Could Martin Oniel stop Gerath Barry? Could David Moyes stop Lescot? Could Fergie stop Ronaldo? Could Wenger stop Toure? So Alonso, Crouch and Keane leavin wasnt Benitez fault. The players wanted to leave. So they did, but then the manager didnt get enough money to buy the replcements. You can argue Alonso wanted to leave cos of Benitez wanting to sell him previous year. May be true. At that time the manager tought Barry would have done a better job at liverpool. We cant critisize the man for that. He knows his team better than anyone. So may be he was right. Alonso became world famous the next season and by then Benitez wanted to stop him leaving, but then the player didnt want to. So he left. If we could have held on to peter Crouch it would be perfect today. But he wanted more regular football and at that time Gerrad and Toress were fit almost everygame and no one can fault Benitez for starting his best two attackin players instead of Crouch. So he wanted to leave to play more football. Simply the manager couldnt stop him.
So lest not critisise the manager and plaeyers and get behind them. Lets support our team and help the team get behind the team and help them turn around this bad run. Thats what we supporters need to do. Not to bring extra pressure. When you critisise the manager and call for his head even the players feel it. So lets win together and lose togheter as a faily help our team to overcome this bad run.
Can I just point out Jaimie that the reason you and Tomkins seem to dislike each other is that you're not a Benitez fan and he is.
ReplyDeleteYou can keep saying you're articles aren't biased or based on your own feelings towards Benitez or any other factors but as you've said everybody has their own opinion, nobody is completely nuetral when it comes to supporting their Club.
"Ferguson: Same principle as above. When he arrived, United were plagued by indiscipline and debilitating drinking culture. These things had to be eradicated before United could seriously move forward. Benitez had no such problems to deal with."
When Ferguson arrived United had their problems with drinking but so did a lot of Clubs and the main culprits were McGrath and Whiteside. Prior to Fergie's arrival they'd broken the british transfer record to sign Bryan Robson and already had Strachan, Olsen & Hughes at the Club (four top players).
Bare in mind Fergie took charge in 1986 and the Club finished 11th, the next season they finished 2nd with McClair (£800k) and Bruce (£800k) proving to be integral parts of that finish. They then dropped to 11th the next season 88-89, before breaking the british transfer record to sign Pallister for £2.3m and spending further fortunes of Webb (£1.5m) and Hughes (£1.8m - back from Barcelona), by today's standards those three players alone would cost around £70m - based on the progression of the British Transfer fee record in comparison. They finished 13th and if not for a goal scored in the FA Cup against Notts Forest Ferguson would have been sacked. The banners read at Old Trafford "Four Years in charge and still no Title - Tara Fergie", 89-90 was followed with a 6th place finish in 90-91.
So when Ferguson took charge United had a strong team, one which had won the FA Cup twice in the recent years leading up to Fergie taking charge and had finished 2nd the season prior to Ferguson's arrival. He spent a fortune by the standard of the day and for 5 seasons delivered little.
86-87: 11th
87-88: 2nd
88-89: 11th
89-90: 13th
90-91: 6th
Fergusons form as manager in his first 5 seasons was extremely erratic despite having spent substantially for the time - more than double Dalglish's NET spend in the same time frame. These are just some of the reasons he was almost sacked and for the same reasons (despite better results) Rafa is under pressure.
Can I just point out Jaimie that the reason you and Tomkins seem to dislike each other is that you're not a Benitez fan and he is.
ReplyDeleteYou can keep saying you're articles aren't biased or based on your own feelings towards Benitez or any other factors but as you've said everybody has their own opinion, nobody is completely nuetral when it comes to supporting their Club.
"Ferguson: Same principle as above. When he arrived, United were plagued by indiscipline and debilitating drinking culture. These things had to be eradicated before United could seriously move forward. Benitez had no such problems to deal with."
When Ferguson arrived United had their problems with drinking but so did a lot of Clubs and the main culprits were McGrath and Whiteside. Prior to Fergie's arrival they'd broken the british transfer record to sign Bryan Robson and already had Strachan, Olsen & Hughes at the Club (four top players).
Bare in mind Fergie took charge in 1986 and the Club finished 11th, the next season they finished 2nd with McClair (£800k) and Bruce (£800k) proving to be integral parts of that finish. They then dropped to 11th the next season 88-89, before breaking the british transfer record to sign Pallister for £2.3m and spending further fortunes of Webb (£1.5m) and Hughes (£1.8m - back from Barcelona), by today's standards those three players alone would cost around £70m - based on the progression of the British Transfer fee record in comparison. They finished 13th and if not for a goal scored in the FA Cup against Notts Forest Ferguson would have been sacked. The banners read at Old Trafford "Four Years in charge and still no Title - Tara Fergie", 89-90 was followed with a 6th place finish in 90-91.
So when Ferguson took charge United had a strong team, one which had won the FA Cup twice in the recent years leading up to Fergie taking charge and had finished 2nd the season prior to Ferguson's arrival. He spent a fortune by the standard of the day and for 5 seasons delivered little.
86-87: 11th
87-88: 2nd
88-89: 11th
89-90: 13th
90-91: 6th
Fergusons form as manager in his first 5 seasons was extremely erratic despite having spent substantially for the time - more than double Dalglish's NET spend in the same time frame. These are just some of the reasons he was almost sacked and for the same reasons (despite better results) Rafa is under pressure.
Can I just point out Jaimie that the reason you and Tomkins seem to dislike each other is that you're not a Benitez fan and he is.
ReplyDeleteYou can keep saying you're articles aren't biased or based on your own feelings towards Benitez or any other factors but as you've said everybody has their own opinion, nobody is completely nuetral when it comes to supporting their Club.
"Ferguson: Same principle as above. When he arrived, United were plagued by indiscipline and debilitating drinking culture. These things had to be eradicated before United could seriously move forward. Benitez had no such problems to deal with."
When Ferguson arrived United had their problems with drinking but so did a lot of Clubs and the main culprits were McGrath and Whiteside. Prior to Fergie's arrival they'd broken the british transfer record to sign Bryan Robson and already had Strachan, Olsen & Hughes at the Club (four top players).
Bare in mind Fergie took charge in 1986 and the Club finished 11th, the next season they finished 2nd with McClair (£800k) and Bruce (£800k) proving to be integral parts of that finish. They then dropped to 11th the next season 88-89, before breaking the british transfer record to sign Pallister for £2.3m and spending further fortunes of Webb (£1.5m) and Hughes (£1.8m - back from Barcelona), by today's standards those three players alone would cost around £70m - based on the progression of the British Transfer fee record in comparison. They finished 13th and if not for a goal scored in the FA Cup against Notts Forest Ferguson would have been sacked. The banners read at Old Trafford "Four Years in charge and still no Title - Tara Fergie", 89-90 was followed with a 6th place finish in 90-91.
So when Ferguson took charge United had a strong team, one which had won the FA Cup twice in the recent years leading up to Fergie taking charge and had finished 2nd the season prior to Ferguson's arrival. He spent a fortune by the standard of the day and for 5 seasons delivered little.
86-87: 11th
87-88: 2nd
88-89: 11th
89-90: 13th
90-91: 6th
Fergusons form as manager in his first 5 seasons was extremely erratic despite having spent substantially for the time - more than double Dalglish's NET spend in the same time frame. These are just some of the reasons he was almost sacked and for the same reasons (despite better results) Rafa is under pressure.
I predict that your prediction will not come true! ;)
ReplyDeletewhilst I think we should stick by Rafa, if we are going to change, then I would much sooner have Stevie as player-manager with Kenny as his advisor
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. MO could bring a bottom mediocre club like Villa cracking into top 6 with arguably not so much money. I believe if MO become the gaffer for Liverpool, he will bring something special to the club, Premiership title maybe? And to not sack Rafa until the end of the season is the right thing also, give him time to fix the mess from early season that we've got, at least he could leave the club with dignity. To be honest, I think Rafa will not bring this club into the next level, under him, Liverpool is only Champions League specialist (with exception of this year maybe. But God, I hope we'll through to the last 16), and to much of his decision is nonsense in my opinion, the team sometimes played brilliant, but mostly average, no consistency at all.
ReplyDeleteAs in, Stevie G? Are you serious? What character traits required of a manager have you seen in Stevie? Knowing how to sort out a playlist maybe.
ReplyDeleteO'Neil is a good manager , but if we do replace RAFA , i hope we can get someone to instill a better style of football ...O'Neils teams are not the most attractive to watch, even on their best form ...one could argue Rafa's side play a better brand than O'Neil...
ReplyDeletePersonally Roy Hodgson is in a better league than O'Neil and even David Moise for what he has done with Everton every season.
And also remember that O'Neil has a very strong dislike for LFC and has comments as a player , coach and manger ...going back to Brian Clough's days @ Nottingham Forest about how little he thinks of LFC and their FANS .....sorry but he is not the man for LFC and i know quite a few fans that will be unhappy to even hear his name along side LFC's
so you think liverpool are just 2 players from having a squad good enough to win the league?
ReplyDeleteNo - I think Liverpool are two class players away from having a first team good enough to win the league. And it's really three players - Aquilani has not played yet.
ReplyDeleteLast season showed that the team is good enough to challenge. With a couple of extra top class players (and obviously some better squad players) and an injection of great man-management and motivation, I believe Liverpool could win the title.
The arrticle is spot on, Great stuff. I agree totally with all the points. MON is the only manager for Liverpool, if you want your club to be where it belongs, winning championships and European trophies over a pro-longed period then he's the man that will do it for you. If he is not the LFC manager he will most certainly be the next manager of MUFC.
ReplyDeleteI remember when the king left celtic to go to liverpool, I heard the usual nonsense about a forward from the pub league coming to replace King Kevin, "Outrage". Kenny Dalglish did that and more (much, much more). When the Shanks took over liverpool, nobody ever thought he would change LFC, he did that and more (much, much more). MON is from the same mold as Shanks, Stein, Busby, Clough, Paisley, and Ferguson. If he becomes the LFC he will put the club where it belongs and much, much more. for one wish he was still manager of Celtic, but alas, it was not to be.
By the way!!!!
All the usual Cr**P about Sottish football, Mickey mouse league, Bla Bla Bla. Why are you guys down south so hung up about the SPL. Get over the fact we have two teams in that league that are amongst the biggest and well supported football teams on the planet. We will never be aloud to play in England (rightly so). Get ovet it.
From a Celt who loves all that is LFC, it supporters and the people of theat great city.
Hail Hail.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ReplyDelete