Actually, yes, and the facts prove this. Dirk Kuyt is, for all intents and purposes, undroppable. And what have Liverpool gained this season as a result of Rafa Benitez's favouritism? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
I'm sorry to belabour this point but favouritism is on the things that I despise the most in football. Players should be in the team on merit; if their performance level drops significantly, it should be time to give someone else a chance.
Kuyt has a history of barren spells for Liverpool, and despite going through yet another one of those periods right now (1112 minutes and counting), Benitez seemingly refuses to entertain the possibility of dropping the player.
I have nothing against Kuyt - he has been effective at times for Liverpool, and last season - bar a couple of inevitable barren periods - he contributed some important goals and assists. It is Benitez picks the team, and he is the one who constantly gives the Dutchman pitch-time, irrespective of his form.
The situation is exacerbated by the fact that there is no one really challenging Kuyt for his position. Ryan Babel will never be given a run of games on the right (or anywhere for that matter!); Yossi Benayoun rarely plays on the right; Gerrard's days of playing on the right are seemingly over; Glen Johnson could play there but Benitez will probably never take that option.
It's a sad state of affairs when 6 seasons into a manager's reign the only consistent option on the the right side of midfield is a converted striker.
How many more hours of football are going to be wasted before Benitez drops Kuyt and gives someone else a chance?
In my view, Kuyt should be given a rest for the next 10 games. Use him as a sub/cover for Torres and give Babel an unbroken run of games on the right; this means letting him start and finish at least 10 games in a row.
Consider this: Babel has never started and finished more than two games in a row at Liverpool. Two games! That is unacceptable and clearly illustrates Benitez's lack of faith in the player.
After spending 11.5m of the club's money on Babel, doesn't Benitez have a duty to the club and the fans to at least see if he can deliver in a run of games?! If Babel is never given the chance, we'll never know.
If after 10 games he still can't deliver the goods, then at least we'll know that Babel is never going to cut it at Liverpool.
Whatever happens, one thing is for sure: Liverpool cannot go on next season with Dirk Kuyt as the first-choice right midfielder.
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I'm sorry to belabour this point but favouritism is on the things that I despise the most in football. Players should be in the team on merit; if their performance level drops significantly, it should be time to give someone else a chance.
Kuyt has a history of barren spells for Liverpool, and despite going through yet another one of those periods right now (1112 minutes and counting), Benitez seemingly refuses to entertain the possibility of dropping the player.
I have nothing against Kuyt - he has been effective at times for Liverpool, and last season - bar a couple of inevitable barren periods - he contributed some important goals and assists. It is Benitez picks the team, and he is the one who constantly gives the Dutchman pitch-time, irrespective of his form.
The situation is exacerbated by the fact that there is no one really challenging Kuyt for his position. Ryan Babel will never be given a run of games on the right (or anywhere for that matter!); Yossi Benayoun rarely plays on the right; Gerrard's days of playing on the right are seemingly over; Glen Johnson could play there but Benitez will probably never take that option.
It's a sad state of affairs when 6 seasons into a manager's reign the only consistent option on the the right side of midfield is a converted striker.
How many more hours of football are going to be wasted before Benitez drops Kuyt and gives someone else a chance?
In my view, Kuyt should be given a rest for the next 10 games. Use him as a sub/cover for Torres and give Babel an unbroken run of games on the right; this means letting him start and finish at least 10 games in a row.
Consider this: Babel has never started and finished more than two games in a row at Liverpool. Two games! That is unacceptable and clearly illustrates Benitez's lack of faith in the player.
After spending 11.5m of the club's money on Babel, doesn't Benitez have a duty to the club and the fans to at least see if he can deliver in a run of games?! If Babel is never given the chance, we'll never know.
If after 10 games he still can't deliver the goods, then at least we'll know that Babel is never going to cut it at Liverpool.
Whatever happens, one thing is for sure: Liverpool cannot go on next season with Dirk Kuyt as the first-choice right midfielder.
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I totally agree Ryan needs a chance; not playing more than two game in a row from start to finish is unacceptable :( Please Rafa use Kuyt upfront rather than Ngog even though I have been impressed with him as of late <3
ReplyDeleteHi Sarah - it is maddening, isn't it? How can Babel be expected to show his worth if he is never given a proper chance?
ReplyDeleteIf Benitez had shown the same faith in him that he'd shown Lucas and Kuyt, I'm sure we'd have a very effective player on our hands.
When you're climbing a mountain and someone is at the top throwing rocks at you, sooner or later you'll fall off.
I've argued this point for a hell of a long time.
ReplyDeleteThe man contributes absolutely nil.
The majority of fans just don't see it.
It saddens me to think that we let the likes of Garcia, Crouch and Hyppia go and kept the Voronins, Babels and Kuyts.
This season, we sold arguably our 3 most consistent players in Hyppia, Arbeloa and Alonso.
We are going backwards at an alarming rate.
hear hear!
ReplyDelete(awaits some nonsense about statistically Kuyt is among the best three right wingers in the world and Liverpool would be right up there were it not for injuries, bad luck or The Americans...)
I think Dirk is in need of a rest considering hes played most games for the best part of 3 years, the problem is Benayoun and Riera are getting injured or not fully fit, Also Babel peed me off the other day against City, for not showing any fight. Benayoun against Birmingham stayed on the pitch for a few minutes even though his hamstring had gone and when Babel went down he was constantly looking over to the bench to come off, even Gerrard tried to get him to show some fight and battle on. Ngog is doing a fantastic job i think. At 20 he looks really promising!!
ReplyDeleteAlso i dont get why people persist with the idea that Johnson should play right wing, hes an attacking full back and always has been, the two positions are completly different and just because hes good going forward doesn't mean tactically he would be great on the wing. + Carra doesn't want to play at right back so apart from a youngster in Kelly we dont have much competition at right back, which isnt benitez fault coz arbeloa had a year left and wanted to leave before you say anything!!
ReplyDeleteHey Jaimie, I'm afraid you are wasting your breath, Kuyt will never be dropped as he is one of Rafa's "trusted" performers, basically do exactly what I ask and don't question anything.
ReplyDeleteHello Jamie, I can see the point you are making however id like to point out Ryan Babel has never warrented a chance to play more than 2 games in a row! His performances have always been so bad that he needs dropping.
ReplyDeleteI agree Babel has much more natural ability than Kuyt although what he does lack is the most important thing, that is a footballing brain. Kuyt has one and understands the tactical side of the game. Rafa consistently plays Dirk because he knows he will get 100% workrate and the right attitude, as well as this he knows Dirk understands what he wants from him tactically and will help the team by doing the job he is there to do.
Rafa may eventually replace Dirk in the future for a player with similar workrate, heart and tactical nous but more quality, id like to point out that Babel is certainly not the player to do it! Id also like to point out that to get a player who possesses all of these attributes we would do very well to get them for any less than £25 million.
The only player that springs to mind is Tevez. When Kuyt is playing well he is just as good! Thats his downfall he can be inconsistent quality wise.
The things people use to attack Babe are increasingly ridiculous. You're giving him grief because he wanted come off when he was injured?! Running off an injury can make it worse sometimes. and what about other players who signal to come off when they've been injured in the past? Gerrard has done this, as has Torres. Does that mean they were bottlers too?! It benefits the club to come off if you have an injury - making it worse by heroically trying to run it off is the wrong course of action.
ReplyDeleteBabel should never EVER play for Liverpool again. After you announce you dont want to play for my club, you are finished in my book. He is the laziest, most ignorant Liverpool player since Harry Kewell. He does not care about playing for Liverpool and shows no passion or desire whatsoever. Rather than bitching and moaning about not being picked why doesnt he do something about it and actual perform.
ReplyDeleteKuyt, despite perhaps having a poor run of form gives 110% every game. He never gives up and always fights for the cause.
Form is temporary, Class is permanent.
And Babel does not possess class, therefore i dont want to see what form he can produce. He is so inconsistent and frustrating when he does play. He always fails to impress and never fails to dissapoint.
GO HOME BABEL!!!!
If the stat " <span><span>Babel has never started and finished more than two games in a row at Liverpool" is true then it says much more about Babel's inability to make an impression than anything else. He has to be one of the most frustrating players I've ever seen in a Lpool shirt, head down running into blind alley's far too often.He's had more than enough chances to show his stuff and I expect he'll be off loaded in the very near future. For me he's always been a player with good skills and pace but lacking football intelligence which will always hold him back wherever he ends up.
ReplyDelete</span></span>
Read more: http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/11/1-assist-in-185-hours-of-football-is_25.html#ixzz0XrwGMWtq
Crokes - please expand on your comment that: Ryan Babel has never warrented a chance to play more than 2 games in a row! His performances have always been so bad
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but this is the worst kind of footballing generalisation. It is not even close to being accurate, and it just smacks of jumping on the Anti-Babel bandwagon for the hell of it.
What about the 11 goals and 6 assists in Babel's debut season? are you suggesting he played badly to achieve that?
What about the fact that he has regularly been dropped for the next game after scoring goals? Is this fair?
The point here is that Kuyt and Lucas start every game and contribute practically zero (Lucas: 54 hours of football - 1 assist), yet Babel is not even given 1 tenth of that kind of faith.
Ryan Babel has never warrented a chance to play more than 2 games in a row! His performances have always been so bad
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect, Crokes, this is the worst kind of footballing generalisation. Please expand upon that with examples as to why you believe this to be the case.
So, I guess the 18 goals and 13 assists Babel has got for Liverpool (whilst being subbed or on the bench in over 80% of games) came from always playing badly?
I dont think you have really thought this one through have you Jamie?
ReplyDeleteHow could you play a player (Babel) who never tracks back with such an attacking full back as Glen Johnson. Johnson was sighned to burst forward outside of kuyt so kuyt can tuck in like last year and provide goals and assists. Babel would leave us completely exposed. Kuyt provdes goals assists and cover. Be honest, at the beginning of the season our right side looked incredibly dangerous as kuyt and jonson were working really well together. I know it's not gone as well for Kuyt as last year but honestly, how many of our players are in form? if we can get them fit enough for christs sake! Please see the bigger picture!
You are the guy who said that Kuyt is better than Rooney, aren't you???
ReplyDeletemaybe he is playing because there just isnt anybody to put in at the moment! surely in some of them games he has actually played in the hole behind the striker as well. with torres and gerard being unfit!
ReplyDeletefor once though you have a piont about him not contributing nothing to the team this season.
No. I said that Torres was better than Rooney. And he is.
ReplyDeleteNope but he is better than Babel. :)
ReplyDeleteThis is a poor comment, Jamie. Kuyt was outstanding in our run-in last year. This year there has been no competition for his place most of the time due to injuries. Babel is not as good as Riera, Benyayoun or Kuyt even when Kuyt is not at his best. Babel is infuriatingly inconsistent and fails to grab his chance when he is given it. I agree that if Kuyt is off form and Riera, Benayoun and Gerrard are fit and on form, then Kuyt's place should be under threat. But it is no use others dismissing injuries as not a factor. They restrict competition for places.
ReplyDeletei'm sick as s*** of this man they call Benitez and his irreversably stubborn ways of thinking, everyone and anyone with a slight clue about football has figured out that Babel cant play on the left wing but plays a hell of a lot better on the right or/and upfront (sometimes) but our Bearded one insists on playing him on the left 1 game out of 4 then goes on to complain that Babel doesnt take his opportunities when given. For f*** sake play the poor lad a couple of games in a row without hauling him off before 90mins is up as well and i'll bet anything we'll see a better supply/contribution from the right than we are currently witnessing, as for this joke we have playing there at the moment all i can say is why is he not one of the players getting injured? I've never wished injury on any player however, i think this moron who's picked, i'm sure, ahead of Gerrard and Carragher needs to break both legs so someone can have a go on that flank and RAFA CAN WE PLEASE SEE AQUAILLANI PLAYING HE'S BEEN FIT FOR THE PAST MONTH!!!! whats the point bringing him on when there's 37secs left on the clock, what's he supposed to do? and stop playing Lucas and Javier together they are too much alike in style of play and that doesn't help the team going forward and what's happened to the attacking LFC we saw at the end of last season? we could only scrap 2 goals against Debrecen in 2 legs simply because everytime we broke on a counter we managed to pass the ball all the way back to Pepe, its pathetic! i'm proper vexed about our season this year i could go on forever so i'll stop here but with one more plea to Rafa, please play Babel more on the right and with a run of games too and just keep Kuyt next to the fire in your house for a little while.
ReplyDeleteNgog is doing a fantastic job, diving like Ronaldo in his prime, scoring against the worst team in the Champions League, and scoring a garbage time goal against Utd! I'm really impressed....not
ReplyDeleteBabel should never EVER play for Liverpool again. After you announce you dont want to play for my club, you are finished in my book.
ReplyDeleteRight. So after Steven Gerrard announced he wasnted to leave Liverpool in 2005 (and then DID leave, before coming back again), you had the same view, right?
No. Double standards and hypocrisy. There's one rule for players you like and another for players you don't like.
And Babel did NOT say he didn't want to play for Liverpool.
also have you thought of the point that when kuyt plays on the right hand side it gives Johnson the license to go forward knowing Kuyt will cover him. if you tottoled it i'd say there have been more goals made down the right hand side for us this season than any other position!!!
ReplyDeleteThen sorry ;)
ReplyDeleteTorres is better than Rooney, when you like to have a player who is injured half of the season...
I was the guy who said that kuyt and rooney both played wide last year and Dirk scored more goals and made more assists. I was merely pointing out who was more effective. Who is better is down to opinion. Its all about what is fashionable too, Dirk doesn't look as good on the ball as David silva or Di Maria but he scores twice as many and provides twice as many assists and we all willing to pay 25-30 mill for these players. The grass is not always greener!
ReplyDeleteJamie, are you married?
ReplyDeleteTorres
ReplyDeleteGoals per game this season: 1 every 1.4 games
Goals per minute: 1 every 104 minutes
Rooney
Goals per game this season: 1 every 3.3 games
Goals per minute: 1 every 268 minutes
End of story.
<span>Rafa is arrogant, who won’t accept his own wrong doing, wrong tactics, wrong decisions, or weird decisions i would say. His favoritism has been going for years. Even during the time when he likes to rotate players, Kuyt was undroppable. I used to like Babel, when I heard about his prospect, comparison to Henry, I was excited. He is that kind of player with skills, & an eye for goals. But skills & sharpness will develop thru games. If he didn’t play enough games to be consistent, how can he be better? I'm not sure about him now. Same goes to Keane. It was not fair what happened to Keane. At least he was better on scoring goals than Kuyt. Players need to play more games & gel together. Like Torres & Gerrard, Cesc & Van Persie, Ronaldo & Rooney to name a few.</span>
ReplyDeleteI'm still waiting for Jaimie to admit he was wrong on a different thread.
ReplyDeleteHe is unable to accept any fault or liability on his part, you can be involved in a debate with him and when you've proved him wrong he just stops posting, the man can never admit fault.
I'm still waiting Jaimie, still waiting for you response to my comment in your Benitez/Wenger thread.
Answering your previous response to crokes, yeah he has done well when coming from the bench at times but also he scored alot of goals when we had already won the game for example he scored 2 against hull when 4-0 up, before you attack me on this i am not a babel hater as he says on twitter or whatever and i do believe given more consecutive games he gets better with confidence as in his first season i remember when he was played on the left for a few games i watched him at bolton away and he was soo good bolton took off the right back before half time but all too often when he starts games he goes missing and doesn't contribute an awful lot for 1 reason or another and this isnt something you can counter with stats if you watch the games all too often his touch can let him down and he can have a flash of brilliance and when you think hes going to make a difference he just lets you down. By WATCHING the games you muist see this yourself. I know maybe a bad point about the injury but again all too often he doesnt show enough fight in my humble opinion. For me if he wanted to play more games then when he finally gets a chance he should be working twice as hard to prove he deserves more games, which is not something i personally feel he demonstrates and i think alot of fans will agree with me on this point.
ReplyDeleteYou can only score against the team you play against, atleast he did score these goals!! whats with the sarcasm??
ReplyDeleteNonsense. I always concede points to other posters. Anyway, it's not about being right or wrong; there is no right or wrong with opinion - that;s the point. So when we discuss things on this site, the goal is not to get one person to admit they're wrong or change their view, it is just about discussion. You're seeing debate in the wrong way: it's all about the discussion.
ReplyDeleteI try to respond to every comment but it is not possible due to time constraints. many people posts similar arguments, so I'll respond to one of the 7 points that are the same.
Re your point - please post think link to your comment here and I'll respond (click the 'More' dropdown on the bottom left of the comment to get the link).
Another reason I may not have repsonded is that I may have answered your points in another comment. I'm not going to repeat myself endlessly.
Rossi - in one breath you slate Babel for scoring goals when games are already won, then in the other you defend Ngog for scoring against crap teams. Do you not see the inconsistency there?
ReplyDeleteTo the guest who keeps posting stuff about Newsnow - have you not realise yet that all your comments are automatically deleted? Keep going though if that's what floats your boat!
ReplyDeleteRelax you guys. Its soon all over anyway. When Rafa today say he is 100% sure of top 4 finish. It also means he knows he will leave if they dont make it. I dont think they will finnish in top 4. We will have a new manager, new players and new mananger faults to discuss next season..
ReplyDeleteyeah, why do you do that?
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with Jamie, Kuyt is part of rafa's defensive-mindedness that drives all liverpool fans nuts. He's simply living off Instanbul. I know Liverpool is not a "sacking" club but honest Rafa is simply not going to win liverpool a league title anytime soon. Sure getting mourninho wouldnt help much either if we contnue to have sucvh tightwad owners but at least the man's a winner. Benitez has crappy tactics - i mean zonal marking when you know you have a relatively short side? Not putting 2 men on the posts when defending corners? His scouting department is utter crap as well. Benitez seems to go for stamina and fitness instead oif flair. I'd like to argue that those former qualities can be inculcated into a player over time but flair is something hard to come by - something babel has. Benitez makes substitutions way too late and they are so defensive. When is he going to play aquilani for christ's sakes? I mean you splurge 20mil and i sincerely believe the lad can play, and then he persists with the ineffective lucas-masch partnership and players like Kuyt who is woefully off form this season. Lucas isnt doing much wrong this season so I'm not making him a scapegoat but he isnt very creative either. Honestly Liverpool lacks matchwinners, that's the fundamental problem. masch and lucas haven't got any sort of creativity on them, just out-and-out hasslers and ballwinners. You can't play two such players in the heart of your midfield. And honestly mascherano is overrated, I say just sell him to barca and get yaya toure in return. Just look at the job essien does at chelsea, he tackles, he scores, he assists. Masch cant even shoot for heaven's sake.
ReplyDeleteThere are many problems saddling our great club right now - the owners, benitez, his hopeless scouting department and transfer policy and the players themselves lacking hunger and fight. Where was benitez when spurs snapped up Niko Kranjcar for 2 mil this summer? Oh yeah he was busy buying crappy Kyrgiakos( who has been at faults for Zamora's, Lopez's and Ireland's) goals. and oh yeah, he let go of Hyypia instead who is playing his heart out in Germnay. Too many blunders from rafa, he's proving just as defensive-minded as Houllier, perhaps slightly better tactically in all fairness, He does get the occassional wonder result and last season he got us playing pretty well. But it is consistency WE crave and he doesnt provide it. I long for a manager like Wenger, his understanding of the game and nurturing of young players is far superior to rafa's. Look at the man's squad - nasri, fabregas, arshavin, rosicky, denilson, walcott, ramsey, van persie, vermaelen, gallas, eduardo... Its loaded with potential matchwinners and flair players... Pool's is full of voronins, degens, insuas, skrtels, kuyts and so forth. I know rafa is not going to get the sack this season at least so hopefully we can just start stringing some wins together and he can start doing that by showing less favouritism to players like kuyt and lucas and start playing aquilani instead of cottonwooling him. Our season could be entirely finished beefore rafa decides to "risk" aquilani. We need a winner, fortune favours the brave. Benitez unfortunately is always concerned about not losing rather than winning. The 1-1 draw @ Emirates spring to mind anyone? Gunners down to 10 men, pool desperately needing 3 points and rafa is too afraid to go for the kill. that's been the story of his managerial reign thus far unfortunately.
Thanks for tolareting this rant guys. I dont profess to being able to do a better job than rafa (the guy must know smth cuz he has 2 la liga titles and 1 champs league medal) but certain things are so basic like marking at set-pieces, he's simple so stubborn, always coming up with crap like how 2-3 [...]
Fair enough Jaimie, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You said "man for man the team Benitez inherited from Houllier was as good if not better than Arsenal's team".
ReplyDeleteMy response was:
"When Evans left we were just 7 point adrift of Arsenal on 16 points. By the end of the season that gap was 24 points with Arsenal finishing 2nd. When Houllier left, fine we finished on 60 points, still 30 points adrift of Arsenal.
There is absolutely no way our squad in 2004 was as good as Arsenal, you're being completely blinkered by standing by your comment, plain stubborn. They went unbeaten for the ENTIRE season! Thumping us 4-2 and beating us 2-1, how the heck can you consider our team "as good if not better"!
"My argument is *man for Man* Liverpool squad left by Houllier was on a par with Arsenal."
Funniest thing I've read for a while. So we finish 30 points behind them, have a 42% win ratio for season, get beaten twice by them with ease, they go UNDEFEATED ALL SEASON and yet *man for man* our side was as good if not better?
Let me remind you of their squad in 2004:
Lehmann
Taylor
Lauren
Keown
Clichy
Senderos
Campbell
Toure
Cole
Edu
Parlour
Silva
Vieira
Pires
Ljungberg
Reyes
Wiltord
Henry
Bergkamp
Kanu
SIX of their players were in the PFA Team of the Year.
As for the rest, it's a well known fact that Carragher/Hyypia leaked less goals than Henchoz/Hyypia, you can check at Statto.com to clarify if you like."
Are you willing to admit that on this occasion you were wrong in your assessment? Or are you still of the opinion that our squad in 2004 was as good if not better than the Arsenal Invincibles?
Fair enough Jaimie, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You said "man for man the team Benitez inherited from Houllier was as good if not better than Arsenal's team".
ReplyDeleteMy response was:
"When Evans left we were just 7 point adrift of Arsenal on 16 points. By the end of the season that gap was 24 points with Arsenal finishing 2nd. When Houllier left, fine we finished on 60 points, still 30 points adrift of Arsenal.
There is absolutely no way our squad in 2004 was as good as Arsenal, you're being completely blinkered by standing by your comment, plain stubborn. They went unbeaten for the ENTIRE season! Thumping us 4-2 and beating us 2-1, how the heck can you consider our team "as good if not better"!
"My argument is *man for Man* Liverpool squad left by Houllier was on a par with Arsenal."
Funniest thing I've read for a while. So we finish 30 points behind them, have a 42% win ratio for season, get beaten twice by them with ease, they go UNDEFEATED ALL SEASON and yet *man for man* our side was as good if not better?
Let me remind you of their squad in 2004:
Lehmann
Taylor
Lauren
Keown
Clichy
Senderos
Campbell
Toure
Cole
Edu
Parlour
Silva
Vieira
Pires
Ljungberg
Reyes
Wiltord
Henry
Bergkamp
Kanu
SIX of their players were in the PFA Team of the Year.
As for the rest, it's a well known fact that Carragher/Hyypia leaked less goals than Henchoz/Hyypia, you can check at Statto.com to clarify if you like."
Are you willing to admit that on this occasion you were wrong in your assessment? Or are you still of the opinion that our squad in 2004 was as good if not better than the Arsenal Invincibles?
Fair enough Jaimie, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You said "man for man the team Benitez inherited from Houllier was as good if not better than Arsenal's team".
ReplyDeleteMy response was:
"When Evans left we were just 7 point adrift of Arsenal on 16 points. By the end of the season that gap was 24 points with Arsenal finishing 2nd. When Houllier left, fine we finished on 60 points, still 30 points adrift of Arsenal.
There is absolutely no way our squad in 2004 was as good as Arsenal, you're being completely blinkered by standing by your comment, plain stubborn. They went unbeaten for the ENTIRE season! Thumping us 4-2 and beating us 2-1, how the heck can you consider our team "as good if not better"!
"My argument is *man for Man* Liverpool squad left by Houllier was on a par with Arsenal."
Funniest thing I've read for a while. So we finish 30 points behind them, have a 42% win ratio for season, get beaten twice by them with ease, they go UNDEFEATED ALL SEASON and yet *man for man* our side was as good if not better?
Let me remind you of their squad in 2004:
Lehmann
Taylor
Lauren
Keown
Clichy
Senderos
Campbell
Toure
Cole
Edu
Parlour
Silva
Vieira
Pires
Ljungberg
Reyes
Wiltord
Henry
Bergkamp
Kanu
SIX of their players were in the PFA Team of the Year.
As for the rest, it's a well known fact that Carragher/Hyypia leaked less goals than Henchoz/Hyypia, you can check at Statto.com to clarify if you like."
Are you willing to admit that on this occasion you were wrong in your assessment? Or are you still of the opinion that our squad in 2004 was as good if not better than the Arsenal Invincibles?
Fair enough Jaimie, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You said "man for man the team Benitez inherited from Houllier was as good if not better than Arsenal's team".
ReplyDeleteMy response was:
"When Evans left we were just 7 point adrift of Arsenal on 16 points. By the end of the season that gap was 24 points with Arsenal finishing 2nd. When Houllier left, fine we finished on 60 points, still 30 points adrift of Arsenal.
There is absolutely no way our squad in 2004 was as good as Arsenal, you're being completely blinkered by standing by your comment, plain stubborn. They went unbeaten for the ENTIRE season! Thumping us 4-2 and beating us 2-1, how the heck can you consider our team "as good if not better"!
"My argument is *man for Man* Liverpool squad left by Houllier was on a par with Arsenal."
Funniest thing I've read for a while. So we finish 30 points behind them, have a 42% win ratio for season, get beaten twice by them with ease, they go UNDEFEATED ALL SEASON and yet *man for man* our side was as good if not better?
Let me remind you of their squad in 2004:
Lehmann
Taylor
Lauren
Keown
Clichy
Senderos
Campbell
Toure
Cole
Edu
Parlour
Silva
Vieira
Pires
Ljungberg
Reyes
Wiltord
Henry
Bergkamp
Kanu
SIX of their players were in the PFA Team of the Year.
As for the rest, it's a well known fact that Carragher/Hyypia leaked less goals than Henchoz/Hyypia, you can check at Statto.com to clarify if you like."
Are you willing to admit that on this occasion you were wrong in your assessment? Or are you still of the opinion that our squad in 2004 was as good if not better than the Arsenal Invincibles?
Fair enough Jaimie, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You said "man for man the team Benitez inherited from Houllier was as good if not better than Arsenal's team".
ReplyDeleteMy response was:
"When Evans left we were just 7 point adrift of Arsenal on 16 points. By the end of the season that gap was 24 points with Arsenal finishing 2nd. When Houllier left, fine we finished on 60 points, still 30 points adrift of Arsenal.
There is absolutely no way our squad in 2004 was as good as Arsenal, you're being completely blinkered by standing by your comment, plain stubborn. They went unbeaten for the ENTIRE season! Thumping us 4-2 and beating us 2-1, how the heck can you consider our team "as good if not better"!
"My argument is *man for Man* Liverpool squad left by Houllier was on a par with Arsenal."
Funniest thing I've read for a while. So we finish 30 points behind them, have a 42% win ratio for season, get beaten twice by them with ease, they go UNDEFEATED ALL SEASON and yet *man for man* our side was as good if not better?
Let me remind you of their squad in 2004:
Lehmann
Taylor
Lauren
Keown
Clichy
Senderos
Campbell
Toure
Cole
Edu
Parlour
Silva
Vieira
Pires
Ljungberg
Reyes
Wiltord
Henry
Bergkamp
Kanu
SIX of their players were in the PFA Team of the Year.
As for the rest, it's a well known fact that Carragher/Hyypia leaked less goals than Henchoz/Hyypia, you can check at Statto.com to clarify if you like."
Are you willing to admit that on this occasion you were wrong in your assessment? Or are you still of the opinion that our squad in 2004 was as good if not better than the Arsenal Invincibles?
Fair enough Jaimie, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You said "man for man the team Benitez inherited from Houllier was as good if not better than Arsenal's team".
ReplyDeleteMy response was:
"When Evans left we were just 7 point adrift of Arsenal on 16 points. By the end of the season that gap was 24 points with Arsenal finishing 2nd. When Houllier left, fine we finished on 60 points, still 30 points adrift of Arsenal.
There is absolutely no way our squad in 2004 was as good as Arsenal, you're being completely blinkered by standing by your comment, plain stubborn. They went unbeaten for the ENTIRE season! Thumping us 4-2 and beating us 2-1, how the heck can you consider our team "as good if not better"!
"My argument is *man for Man* Liverpool squad left by Houllier was on a par with Arsenal."
Funniest thing I've read for a while. So we finish 30 points behind them, have a 42% win ratio for season, get beaten twice by them with ease, they go UNDEFEATED ALL SEASON and yet *man for man* our side was as good if not better?
Let me remind you of their squad in 2004:
Lehmann
Taylor
Lauren
Keown
Clichy
Senderos
Campbell
Toure
Cole
Edu
Parlour
Silva
Vieira
Pires
Ljungberg
Reyes
Wiltord
Henry
Bergkamp
Kanu
SIX of their players were in the PFA Team of the Year.
As for the rest, it's a well known fact that Carragher/Hyypia leaked less goals than Henchoz/Hyypia, you can check at Statto.com to clarify if you like."
Are you willing to admit that on this occasion you were wrong in your assessment? Or are you still of the opinion that our squad in 2004 was as good if not better than the Arsenal Invincibles?
I didnt slate babel at all i was just saying these kind of goals are part of the statistics you post. I also stated i am not a babel hater so hows that slating him. I can see your point but bit over the top to say i slated babel for it.
ReplyDeleteAlthough i will reiterate my point that when he starts for me he doesnt contribute enough consistently. At the same time he has come off the bench to score a winner against utd, these kind of things just says to me he has more impact when coming on in games when defenders are getting tired like the goal against lyon lately rather than starting abit like tevez.
Read the comment policy - snide posts that have nothing to do with topics being discussed will be deleted. This particular poster is trying to spam various threads with pointless comments, thus they are deleted.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with the guest i have never seen you concede points to other posters.
ReplyDeleteGuest - you have misinterpreted my comment, perhaps deliberately ;)
ReplyDeleteI stated that The team Benitez inherited was man-for man as good as the team Wenger inherited in 1997. I don't know where you got this idea that the comparison was with the 2003-4 Arsenal side. I'm explicitly clear about this distinction in the thread itself.
So on that basis, I stand by what I said: the team that Benitez got from Houllier was good if not better - man for ma n - tha the team Wenger inherited in the 90s.
Well, that must make you right then, eh?
ReplyDeleteRossi - this site has been going for three years; in that time there have been over 20,000 comments posted. Have you read them all? I think not.
they make better points than you ever will jamie. did you know there's a group of liverpool fans preparing legal action against you for calling liverpool fans "idiots" in your post last night?
ReplyDeleteIf he wasn't arrogant, did accept his wrong doing, wrong tactics or weird decisions then would i be wrong to suggest Steve Mclaren would be in charge!!! The perfect yes man!!! I like someone who trusts in what they believe in!!!
ReplyDeleteHow many assists and goals did Alonso get? I am sick of people not looking at the bigger picture.
ReplyDeleteI dont think alonso's goals or assists came over 20 in his 5 seasons at liverpool, yet we miss him dearly.
you know what? I cant even be bothered making the point anymore. Id suggest looking at some real journalism and take a butchers at Paul Tompkins website. a little bit more balanced there.........
Kuyt has more commitment and passion to the cause in his little finger than Babel has in his whole body, illustrated by the latter limping pathetically off against Man City, clearly didn't want to stay on and prove himself. Kuyt may be having a relatively poor season but his workrate allows other players (stevie g in particular) more freedom to attack. Although that clearly isn't working this season. I do agree though that Babel should be given more of a chance, but I would play him up front alongside Torres. He showed against Lyon what he can do when playing down the middle.
ReplyDeleteFunniest thing I've ever heard! Legal action?! For what, exactly?
ReplyDeleteGood luck!
Hi Jamie,
ReplyDeleteCongrats for speaking what myself and my family loyal Liverpool fans have been saying for a long time. Why should Babel not deserve a first place in the team? He is fast, agile and eager to impress. KUYT is not a winger and will never be a winger he is a forward and should be played as a forward anyone remember Cisse being played in this position? What baffles me is why Rafa does not use Martin Kelly as a RB and move Glenn Johnson to the RW. This may solve some of our problems defensively Glenn has looked suspect and by giving him the opportunity to play more offensively may suit us. Also Rafa is becoming so pig ignorant by playing Lucas all the time. Let's get this straight we dont need two defensive midfielders when we got Aqualini fit. Aqualini should have started on Tuesday he would have provided us with some flair. I beg Rafa to inject some flair into our squad. Use Iccleston, Kelly or any of our youth players with flair and if they impress dont be afraid to start with them again! This is a LFC fan depressed, Please God send us a cash injection and some sense into our Spanish waiter!!! YNWA
good point, i dont want to get into a slanging match im just saying the posts i have commented on i have never seen you concede a point. I think because probably a good percentage of these 20,000 comments can be against you for your views you do seem to react quite negativly to other views and come across very hostile just relax abit.
ReplyDeleteI mean youve commented about how i slated babel for scroing goals against teams that were already beaten, which i didnt (slate that is) and said the opposite when talking about Ngog and said im inconsistant with my views, yet the same could be said when in an article you stated Stevie G should NOT play in CM with Masch for various reasons yet this season for various reasons you were stating Stevie SHOULD play in CM instead of Lucas, now that is also inconsistant views.
But hey we all make mistakes right??
No I understand that, you said as much in your original article. I was responding to this comment:
ReplyDeleteCompletly agree with guest here, Alonso was the playmaker and we do miss him dearly, hes the one who took it off the back 4 and got it too the players that can make a difference up top.
ReplyDeleteIts like the comments people post saying that because G Johnson is in the back 4 we now concede more goals, which is nonscence. Most goals conceded are from set pieces and thats not just his fault also we got a new left back so 2 of the 4 in defence are new and the two cb's have not consistantly been the same two all season.
Kuyt i think does a great job for the team both defensively and going forward like i said before i think he needs a rest, he seems to be running on empty an example last night when Aurelio had a shot and it went inbetween Kuyts legs he just looks like he hasnt got the energy to react quick enough at the minute.
The reason he wont rest is not because hes undroppable but because at the minute with the injuries hes not got a suitable replacement.
R - Benayoun repeatedly said that he'd have to move on if he couldn't play more, up until last season's run in.
ReplyDeleteGerrard actually negotiated a contract elsewhere in spite of the fact he was the club captain.
Mascherano just this season decided that he wants to move elsewhere in spite of the fact that he has been a first team regular since he arrived (off of West Ham's bench).
Aside from Benayoun, these players have had less cause to call for a move but have done so and remain favorites...
It would be interesting to see how Kuyt would react to being dropped, seeing how quickly he voiced his discontent at being dropped for his country!
I agree with this. At lesast givel Babel a chance on the right wing. All he ever does on the left is cut in so maybe on the right he may run at defenders and cause havoc. He has undoubted potential and it may be wasted due to Benitez's stubborness. I guarantee he would have been a much better player by this stage if he had gon to Arsenal
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with your comment re Babel - the boy has been a huge disappointed and I think having a run in the team will simply emphasise that point...I hope I am wrong because I think he has the natural talent to be huge - but apart from the odd goal here and there, his overall performances have been really poor. Look at his game against Lyon - he came on, scored a fantastic goal and then - took a free kick from the left side of the penalty area that flew straight behind all the players gathered in the penalty area, across the pitch and out for a throw in on the other side...and then had a chance to score a second goal which - following his cracking first goal - he should have put away easily but instead blasted it into the side netting...he is terribly inconsistent and unreliable...and furthermore, if that interview in the SUn yesterday was true, then not only shouldn't he be played, he should be thrown out of the club immediately - although a little cash would be nice.
ReplyDeleteAs for Kuyt...i totally agree...he had a great run at the end of last season, but Rafa has simply forced us to accept that this type and standard of player is acceptable for Liverpool...he is not...having such a fantastic work rate does not make him a good player especially when he has the worst 1st, 2nd and 3rd touch of a ball I have ever seen of a Liverpool player...he is constantly guilty of ruining flowing attacking moves - he may end up winning the ball back because he runs after it like a mad man, but by then the chance and move has gone...he needs around 10 shots on goal to get one on target...he has no pace...his passing and crossing is poor...he can run all day and night, but that is not what we need on the right wing...I would have preferred Pennant in his place!
And the same applies to Lucas...another player that Rafa keeps on playing until we accept that he is worthy...again, he is not.
I still think Rafa is the man to bring us the title - not this season obviously - but I will continue to be irritated when i see him choose players like Kuyt and Lucas and will never understand why he hasn't tried to buy a quality right winger to replace Kuyt.
And our performance last night was just dreadful...we were so lucky that they didn't score a goal in the last couple of minutes...pitiful.
It is a commonly stated myth that Kuyt provides such great cover for the full back - any good attacking full back is still given just as much opportunity to press right onto Johnson as they usually would. Johnson is often left one-on-one at the byline with his opposing full back, as against Lyon, with Kuyt nowhere to be seen.
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of the season, our right side looked good with Johnson being responsible for ALL of it! He knows that if he doesn't push all the way up onto the opposition box we have no width to the team, and then he still has to make sure he gets back in line with his defense, or will get blamed for being poor defensively! It's funny that everybody credits Kuyt for the creating space on the right side by disappearing from his flank (i.e. having a free role) but puts no extra onus on him to be a creative force elsewhere on the pitch with that attacking freedom.
It's even funnier that whoever is the right back, whether that be Arbeloa, Johnson or converted centrebacks such as Carragher or Kelly, is blamed if there is no productivity up the right wing! Well, either funny or sad...
You should point out, who Babel scored against and got assists against. Scoring 2 in 8-0 wins is not good enough. Apart from 2 goals, 1 against Man U and 1 against Arsenal when we hit them on the break. He's generally scored against bad sides after they've took a beating.
ReplyDeleteI could point out that Kuyt got 15 goals last season, with the assists in double figures.
hello buddy..you either want liverpool to go down further or you are not liverpool fan.I seriously think dirk kuyt should be sold because his technical ability and skill is close to zero.He doesn't deserved to wear the reds shirt.that is the main reason why we doesn't have a fearsome strike pair.When torres is injured,kuyt doesn't score for us ...at all.He can run the whole 90min but he clearly cant't win it(score) for us.He has to go.He's the culprit.
ReplyDeleteNo I understand that Jaimie, you said as much in your original post. I was responding to this comment:
ReplyDelete"My argument is *man for Man* the Liverpool squad left by Houllier was on a par with Arsenal."
If your intention was the Arsenal squad of 1996 by comparison it wasn't clear from this comment, perhaps you'd confused yourself after the long debate with Gary.
jaimie kanwar..u bloody paki shut up...gerrard didnt leave..he just considered n didnt held the club for ransom or threatened the club like wat babbel doin...atleast gerrard won us the champs league..not like babbel..al he does he just score aginst ur mum :'(
ReplyDeleteIf you follow the thread of the debate you will see that I referenced arsenal's 96 squad several times, which is why I didnt feel the need to repeat myself.
ReplyDeleteJaimie Kanwar
(via BlackBerry)
Great points, Jay. They'll fall on deaf ears though. They hypcorisy over Babel isunbeliavable, and your points about Gerrard, Yossi and Masch are spot on.
ReplyDeleteOnce more, rather a fit striker, who doesn't score that much in relation than an injury prone, whos not able to play the majority of the season!
ReplyDeleteBut I'm pretty sure, Torres will soon be playing in Spain again!
Is Rafa blameless?
ReplyDeleteJudging by what I read and what I hear from many Liverpool fans...Yes he is.
How can the owners be blamed for;
His refusal to drop Kuyt
Playing Lucas and Mascherano together it doesn't work every game
How does he expect Aquilani it get MATCH FIT, if he's fit enough for the bench he's fit enough to play more than 30 seconds
Zonal marking it doesn't work has cost us heavily this season
Transfers in the same period of Rafa has bought more players than Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal, why has he not bought cover for Torres, it is criminal.
I'm not for a second saying he should be sacked, but we are 5 years into his long term plan for the club and we are no better off than when he took over.
It's infuriating to see many fans simply lay the blame at the Americans, injuries or bad luck. Rafa should share some of the blame along with some of the players, some who just don't look committed while others are just not good enough to wear the shirt.
As per usual jaimie, you are talking through your arse!
ReplyDeleteBabel hasn't done anything so far in his LFC career to suggest he warrants a start in the first team. Considering his inflated price tag he is shite. Yes he has power, pace & a decent shot, but just like Djibril Cisse No control, no skill & no footballing brain. He'd be better off on an athletics track.
If we can get £10mill back for him I think we should bite their hand off.
Utter crap! Kuyt is one of our best players, even yesterday he delivered good crosses that were not met appropriately from people attacking the goal. If you want to make an article singeling out someone who doesnt deserve a slot in the team make one about Lucas. Write an article about why Aquilani isnt playing yet, even though he was promised to be ready about 5 weeks ago!
ReplyDeleteFinding stupid stats like 1 assist in 18.5 hours when the team has won one game out of the last 10 and blaming it all on Kuyt for not scoring or making the assist is retarded!
Gerrard hasnt been in a winning side for the past 2 months, I suppose you would want him to be benched next!
Obviously prior to the debrecen game
ReplyDeleteAlmost every attack that goes thru Kuyt breaks down. His touch is awful. Last night during one attack, his first touch took him back into our half and he had to go back to get the ball. They then get more players behind the ball. there has to be someone we can play there instead of him. He also seems to have gotten a lot slower this season. I know he was never fast. It must be frustrating playing with him, you run forward and the ball comes to him, first touch takes the ball to the opposition.
ReplyDeleteLucas is another problem. Look at him for Irelands goal last saturday. He looked in Irelands direction, had to see he was on his own in the box. He went the opposite direction and did absolutely nothing. Neither helped to mark wright phillips or marked Ireland, he didnt go in to try and cut out a possible cross, nothing. He has also missed 2 sitters in the last 2 matches. He offers nothing either defensively or attacking. He reminds me of david batty, pass it anyway but forward. Surely Aquallani is better, if not then Rafa has serious questions to answer. Why not play him in a match like last nights.
Masch is another one. Compare him to when he came to us from West Ham. It looks like he has rebuilt his reputation and now he wants off. Look at the way he used to get around the pitch in his first season and look at him now.
Insua is another one that looks to be playing way below his best. he is young and can get better. but at the moment he seems to have a problem with running back towards his own goal when the other team are on the attack, particulary against Fulham.
The defence is probably fine apart from set pieces but the midfield is hopeless at present. No cover for the defence at all and no creativity.
Agree with you Rossi. I'm no Babel hater either, I was actually very excited by him in his first season, however, he has been found out by premiership defenders since. They know that a solid tackle will whack him off his game and they know that from the left midfield position he will always cut onto his right foot to line up a shot. They show him the touch line and, because linking with his team mates is not in his game, he runs into dead ends and more often than not loses the ball. But his biggest problem is his lack of mental strength and failure to grab his chances when he gets the start he craves. Yosi was also a squad player at first but he knuckled down, took his chances and now he is part of the first 11. Babel needs to do the same.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree. At this point in his carreer he is more of an impact substitute than a 90 minute player. That's not slating him in any way, he just needs to work at it and do more when he's given a 90 minute run out.
ReplyDeleteWell said Bommer
ReplyDeleteOk Jamie, I personally cannot remember one game in which Babel has played and I have thought 'He played well there he doesn't deserve to be dropped'. Apart from maybe Newcastle away 3 seasons ago, when he put in a decent performance around christmas time, he then went on to play the next game from the start and blundered his way through only to be substituted on the hour.
ReplyDeleteBabel doesnt deserve a place in the Liverpool team based on many factors of his game. The one factor that has the biggest influence on me is the mans attitude, if he loses the ball once his head drops almost immediately, he doesnt run enough, he pulls out of tackles, he shows no passion to change the game. After all hes getting paid anyway. That is the impression i get! So personally I dont like him and alot of Liverpool fans dont. Thats before even going into how terribly he wastes his ability every time he gets on the pitch.
I tend to agree with most things you say Jamie, and I most certainly do when it comes to Kuyt, not so much Babel however.
ReplyDeleteKuyt last night was simply utterly aweful, and that isn't out of the ordinary. The claims that Benitez has an eye for detail etc. are clearly wrong, because Kuyt cannot pass, cannot score, cannot beat a defender, always makes runs which get in the way of other players, offers little to no width, and has a first touch which.....well he doesn't have a first touch! I have lost count of the amount of times in games in which he loses the ball, passes it to a defender, passes it out of play, the list goes on. I cannot stand anymore this excuse that he works hard....so the fu*k what? He is one of the worst players I have ever seen play for this club...and I grew up in the 90's/2000's watching Phil Babb, Igor Biscan, Smicer etc. He is an absolute shambles and is symptomatic of everything bad at the club at the moment.
When it comes to Babel, I think he's had his chance, and too little has he provided. Against Lyon he should have scored a second and put the game to bed, but did what he always, so frustratingly does...provide inconsistency.
Now I'm ranting I may as well continue. Gerrard needs to open his eyes, that performance last night was poor, and makes me worry about getting into the top 4, because if that is deemed an 'excellent team performance' as Gerrard claimed, then I shudder to think what a bad game must look like.
Carragher needs to stop coming out making idiotic statements....I'm sorry but to be playing in the Europa League IS a disaster, and IS NOT acceptable! The club is an absolute mess and I know nothing is going to change by us debating what is wrong/right, but the fact is we are going backwards very very quickly. Something needs to be done, and a sweeping wholesale change at the club needs to be made. For what it's worth, Kenny shouldn't be manager...he's had far too long out, and I think we should be looking at someone like (if they'd come) Hiddink or Rijkard.
I think you'll find he has written articles on Aquilani mate. And Kuyt is one of our best players is he? Jesus we are in a worse position than I thought...I don't normally sware on forums, but I have in my post below and I will now....he is dog shit!
ReplyDeleteIt's Ryan's attitude thast is doing more damage to his carer with us than anything , at the City game i thought Stevie was going to give him a slap on the back of the head to at least try and walk his injury off.
ReplyDeleteI have a problem with you Jaimie. You dont even try to understand Rafa choices and decisions. And when you dont understand you call him a saboteur or accuse him of favouritism or whatever. You are not fair on Rafa and you even dont try to be fair.
ReplyDeleteYou want Kuyt to be dropped. And the only reason you can name for Kuyt being first choice RM despite his lack of assists/goals is Rafa's favouritism. I will show you another possibility, another good reason for keeping him in the squad (And I beg your pardon for broken English).
And the reason is simple: Glenn Johnson.
Glenn Johnson is an reasonable good in defence and great in attack. We know it. But the problem with Johnson roaring forward is he cant be at the back at the same time. So we need another right sided player who tracks back and helps a DM to break counter attack when our RB is out of position.
Can you name a RM in our squad who does? Exactly - there is only one.
Liverpools problem at the moment isn't attack - it is defence. Babel is defensively useless. Your medicine is goin to worsen our problems not help with them.
If you replace Kuyt with Babel, Johnson will have to stay at the back - which is clear waste of talent.
And dont get me wrong - Kuyts form is worring. Very worring. But at the moment we need him.
But we cant drop him untill:
1. we get another RM who tracks back
or
2. we drop/sell Johnson and buy a very good RB so there will be no need for the RM to track back.
Playing Carra or Kelly doesn't help - they both need help at defending. And the only RM in our sqad who can do that is... tadaaaa!
Whichever option you pick Babel is not the answer: most of his career he was played LAM he considers himself a striker... RAM is last position he wants to play. And he has no much experience playing there.
I think there are many aspects to it...Rafa being the main one, but when you blame him people start saying you're not a Liverpool fan, so what can you do? Rafa, Kuyt, Babel, Zonal Marking, Positional/tactical decisions, not getting Aquilani involved etc. etc. the list goes on. Rafa is the root cause, but Kuyt....jesus he's bad!
ReplyDeletewell if you have johnson bombing on, who would you want tracking back if we were short? Kuyt? Babel? or Benyoun?
ReplyDeleteI'll admit that Kuyt has done it this season and i'm not one of his biggest fans but Johnson has seemed to play better when has been on the right hand side.
Benitez may have killed off Babel but the damage is done beyond repair now and it's best we get rid of him!
ive been posting on this site for a short while and he chooses the people who he replies his rants to and never acknowledges or backs down but rather creates differents points to answer his questions!
ReplyDeleteKuyt has a footballing brain??????????????
ReplyDeletePlaying Lucas has been a necessity! He is a much better player than Babel for a start. Babel may have scored and created but it still does not mean he played well. Most of his goals were scored when games were already won and the opposistion were tiring and it still does NOT mean he played well!! Dont say this isnt true. The amount of times Babel loses possesion in a 20 minute period far outweigh the positive aspects of his game which are very few and far between.
ReplyDeleteHi Jamie, normally i look at this site and feel you are being massivley pesamistic or over critical with a bias towards hatred of Benitez or unanomanimity towards the owners but i have come on today to say you were right all a long. i take back all my pro-Benitez comments i have previously made and now back your anity benitez comments. I even think you are being kind to Kuyt here. yesterdays displys were the final straw. him, benitez, lucas, voronin, ensua, ngog, babel, reira, deggen, dossena can all go. i would like to have had an opinion on Aqualini but i havent been able to see him play even though he was apparently just 'lack match practise'' 1 month ago. i am sure the 1 minute he got last night help though hey? well done Rafa.
ReplyDeleteNo ones saying Rafa is blameless and im 100% behind Rafa and don't like to see any Rafa supporter think or say that ,i prefer to see open logical debate.
ReplyDeleteYes kuyt is out of form , but its work rate off the ball that's keeping him in the side at present and i would like to see Ryan giving a chance on the right , but imo his attitude is keeping him out of the side reminds me of a spoilt child at times especially his last out burst , and to be honest i always feel the light is off upstairs when on and off the pitch.
Aquilani was brought on to run the clock down nothing more nothing less and to play him on such a terrible pitch for a long period of time would have been ridiculous last night imo.
As for Zonal marking there was much complaints about it at the end of last season and think I'm right in saying 14 of the last 16 teams in last season used zonal marking , so no need to blame the system .. its the players in the system who should be defending better especially set pieces.
No better than when he took over ... keeping taking the pills mate.
We think now of winning the champions league not just getting into the competition as it was before Rafa arrived ...
I'm convinced in time things will start to improve and we will go on a winning run just like last season ... no need to panic yet and even if the season is going to be a Disaster i hope Rafa is giving at least 1 more season in charge.
it's not making sense if people do something wrong, then defend what he's been doing wrong. unless he's doing something right, like what leonardo is doing, or guardiola was doing last season, and wenger is still keep his job because we can see the progress he made with the squad. but there's something is not right here. 5 years, now in 6th season with the squad we have, the way we play now, don't u think rafa should do something? i will support rafa if he do or change something. in fact, i agree that we need to stand behind the manager.
ReplyDeleteIf we have no other option for right midfield the whose fault is that...i'll give you a clue. he has a stupid goatee.
ReplyDeleteAnother fickle fan , who doesn't know his own mind ....
ReplyDeleteAnother great summary Jamie exposing the myth of KUYT. He is the most frustating player in our squad. He has:
ReplyDelete- No technical abiliy
- Awful first touch
- Cant pass
- Cant cross
- Unreliable infront of goal
- FAILED prem striker
Like Babel said Rafa has his team "blue eye" in the Spanish speakers and Kuyt while everybody else is on the outskirt of the team. Rafa has never even given Babel half the chance Kuyt has had and even Yossi (our best player this season) is never guranteed consistent 90 mins. Someone needs to tell us what is the real relationship between Kuyt and Rafa because its NOT football reasons.
Totally agree. Kuyt kills our momentum because he always looks back to pass and not forward. We cant even play counter attacking with him in the team as he has no football sense other than to run like a headless chicken (which even i can do).
ReplyDeleteHang on, you've just described Mourinho and that's who most of the "Rafa Out" mob want as our manager.
ReplyDeleteBabel has scored against Chelsea, Lyon, PSV, Marseille in addition to his goals againt the Manchs and Arsenal. Lets not forget the pen he won against Arsenal.
ReplyDelete1 Assist in 18.5 hours, you've yet to pen a decent article in 18.5 months.
ReplyDeleteBabel is rubbish. Anyone who has any idea about football can see that. He is simply not technically good enough. No ability on the ball what so ever. He's got pace. Thats about it.
If we had player on the left with the work rate goals and assists as kuyt did last season we would have won the league.Yes he is out of form this season but maybe his ankle injury may have been a factor maybe playing through the pain barrier a lot of the season with pain killer injections should be applauded not shouted at like a spoilt kid.
ReplyDeleteLast season Yossi, Babel, Riera, Aurelio and Dossena all played on the left side and while I dont know the facts what I can say is that there was plenty of goals and assists. Yossi for a fact hit double figures while Riera had 4 and I think Babel scored 5. Dossena scored 2.
ReplyDeleteAlso last season some of Kuyts goals came as a striker. For example the Wigan home game where he scored 2.
Please dont bore me with the work rate. I dont see the other big 3 relying on headless chickens that work hard.
Really thought Ryan would fulfill his potential this season , but yet get imo his attitude is all wrong , nit sure if it because the switch is off up stairs permanently or he has just given up with us before even starting ... and showing some fighting spirit than sulking about his situation.Really wanted to see him succeed but just cant see it ...
ReplyDelete1.Strength
2.Speed.
3.Hard and accurate shot when on his game.
4,Footballing brain is missing imo and the wrong attitude.
I agree Jaimie, Kuyt just hasn't been good enough this season, he hasn't added anything to our midfield in terms of creativity and in many games a lot of our attacks have broken down when he has had the ball! On too many occasions this season he has thrown away possesion because he could not complete a simple pass!
ReplyDeleteWe definitely need someone new on the right, Babel is definitely worth a gamble, I don't think he can do any worse than Kuyt.
I am a supporter of Benitez, but I like you think he does favourtise and it really does frustrate me!
On a side note I think against lesser opposition Rafa should not be playing two holding midfielders, maybe put gerrard in the middle and play either ben or aquilani just behing torres! He needs to a bit more adventorous against lesser opposition, otherwise Liverpool are finding it increasingly difficult to break down those teams that simply 'park the bus'.
Babel does deserve a chance, without a doubt. As well as his 'chance' though, he needs some lessons in work-ethic and humility as well as a crash course in handling the media, because doing an interview like he did on the eve of a must-win game was irresponsible and childish.
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair i think the comments were a lot older than the eve before Xmas , either way it was a stupid and childish thing to do.
ReplyDeleteFor people to sat Rafa doesn't believe or give Ryan a chance is also wrong the lad had made around 80-90 appearances for us in his first 2 seasons ..
.
why are url complaining about dirk kuyt,what did lucas do from da time he started playin
ReplyDeleteJamie, I agree with your comments now and then. May be you're right about Kuyt. You will always find a statistic to back-up your current hobby-horse of discontent. I like Kuyt for the type of player he is. He works hard, is a genuine good guy so I would tend to defend him and certainly he is not singularly to blame for going out of the champions league. I put it to you that although we have had an appalling run of late, the blame for which in my opinion is shared by Rafa, the players, and a touch of bad luck along the way, these are the same players that will improve over the rest of the season, the same squad that came second last year and played brilliant on a number of occasions, the same Dirk Kuyt that chipped in with numerous important goals in the league and champions league last year. OK we all want Torres playing every week, with David Villa next to him and Maradona behind him with Pele in support. But its not going to happen. This is the Liverpool team that we support, that will improve. Your constant critical analysis of players, Rafa's spending etc etc everyday is wearing. It's easy to critisise, less easy to provide answers. Rafa has moved the club forward, the very fact we're all disappointed that we didn't qualify is a testament to the standards Rafa has set. Sometimes it's important to take some rough with the smooth, be philiosophical and try to see a bigger picture. In the years since Rafa has been at Liverpool we have improved, OK some signings have not been the best, but when mostly you have to shop not from the top shelf its easier that thing don't work out. Chelsea and Man U have moved the bar upward and upward. Liverpool teams of the 80s would struggle with the consistency that is required to win the league in this era. It's a tough proposition and the only teams who have won it recently are teams that have been spending like mad, or built a team over at least 5,6,7 or 20 years. Even Wenger (who is a brilliant manager) and Arsenal struggle to keep up. On the whole the bigger picture is that Rafa started with a weak squad, has spent a reasonable amount of money, bit by bit, we now have a much better, a more valuable squad, that injuries, form and a bit of self belief, will achieve a lot more. I think the squad is not quite good enough to win the league, clearly. But we're on the right path. Questions should be asked why we spent so much money on Johnson, who I think was a correct addition, but did not buy a second striker. But on the whole I'd rather be where we are now than 6 years ago, or 8 years ago, or 10 years ago or 15 years ago. So step back, have a look at the bigger picture, and try not to get so perturbed if Kuyt has bad run of form. He will continue to be a good Liverpool player. Babel I'm afraid does not appear to have a good enough mentality to get into this Liverpool team, despite his potential. I don't disagree with Rafa on that.
ReplyDeleteget of rafas back we were 2nd last year alright weve had a bad run but thats when the team and manager needs support its easy to back them when were winning a lot of games .lets look at the reasons weve had alot of injuries for instance weve had three right backs out at once .as for us being a two man team take rooney /drgba lambard/van persie fabragas out and they wouldnt be as good. and as for slaging dirk of one reason for rafa picking him is even when he isnt in form he wont hide and will give 100 per cent and as for being a converted forward just remember ray kennedy. people say about crouch /alonso/ bellamy /being sold bellamy went to help pay for torres.crouch wouldnt sighn a new contract so had to go. alonso asked to go an we made between 20 and 25 million on him if this was wenger hed be called a genious and wher did the rest of the money go after we paid for aquilani .rafa wanted to get another c/b for 8 or ten million he was given 1 and ahalf million . and as far as BHEKO is concerned he should be ashamed to call himself a red to want one of your own players to break both his legs your just a mooron.
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeletefor once I agree with you Jamie, I think Ryan has not given the chance, I also think that once we sell Ryan to any clubfor instance Arsenal, he will get a better chance to show his potnetial and many of Babel haters will regret us selling him.
the only thing in defence fo Kuyt, is his attitude has been better than Babal and he never gives up however skill wise, he has shown that he is not as good.
First of all who gives a s... where Carra wants to play, it's not his decision but the managers. If required on right back he will play there, end of story! If it isn't Benitez fault that we don't have competition for right back, who is to blame??? He just bought a 4th central defender instead! He could have bought another right back. He bought Degan.....and I don't think the americans forced that signing on Benitez. Benitez have shaped the entire team during his era, so it's his responsebility if we lack cover for positions!!!
ReplyDeleteThis shows how much tact Babel has:
ReplyDeleteSpeaking in the Sun (THE SCUM), he said: "All the forwards, they always live for their own success. It is hard for someone who isn't selfish by nature to act selfish."
"I don't know if my team-mates were shocked by my new character but I do notice once in a while they get confused.
"Normally I would pass the ball - now I take the shot myself more often. I see how they look at me with a face that says 'Hey I am free!'
"But I'm not going to explain it any further because they don't give me any explanation when I ask for the ball.
"We have a lot of different cultures and on the pitch we are a tight group. But outside the pitch everyone goes their own way.
"The Spanish-speaking guys are very close. The youths hang out together. And I get along with Benayoun and Lucas.
"Dirk Kuyt? I don't really hang out with him. Dirk got accepted in the group of the Spanish-speaking players.
"He is very friendly with them and it looks as if he understands their jokes."
Babel has also said that he has sacrificed a lot in his time at Anfield.
"As a Liverpool player I can't play in my blue Nike boots. They strongly discourage me from doing that.
"Blue is Everton's colour and Liverpool and Everton are rivals in everything.
"As a small boy you dream about a career as a football player. Your willing to give up everything for it.
"Once you reach that goal, only then do you get to know the whole world around it."
This is what Babel is all about!!! He is selfish, cares only about himself.....and his BLUE BOOTS!! Somebody get him a tissue, i think he's about to cry!!!
GO HOME BABEL!!! GO NOW SO AT LEAST WE CAN GET POTENTIALLY HALF THE RIDICULOUS FEE THAT WE PAID FOR YOU!!!
What a waste of time!!!! He is the new Harry Kewell!!!
Selfish, arrogant, couldnt give a toss about Liverpool and puts in no effort whatsoever!!!
They all count....doesnt matter how you score them!
ReplyDeleteThis shows how much tact Babel has:
ReplyDeleteSpeaking in the Sun (THE SCUM), he said: "All the forwards, they always live for their own success. It is hard for someone who isn't selfish by nature to act selfish."
"I don't know if my team-mates were shocked by my new character but I do notice once in a while they get confused.
"Normally I would pass the ball - now I take the shot myself more often. I see how they look at me with a face that says 'Hey I am free!'
"But I'm not going to explain it any further because they don't give me any explanation when I ask for the ball.
"We have a lot of different cultures and on the pitch we are a tight group. But outside the pitch everyone goes their own way.
"The Spanish-speaking guys are very close. The youths hang out together. And I get along with Benayoun and Lucas.
"Dirk Kuyt? I don't really hang out with him. Dirk got accepted in the group of the Spanish-speaking players.
"He is very friendly with them and it looks as if he understands their jokes."
Babel has also said that he has sacrificed a lot in his time at Anfield.
"As a Liverpool player I can't play in my blue Nike boots. They strongly discourage me from doing that.
"Blue is Everton's colour and Liverpool and Everton are rivals in everything.
"As a small boy you dream about a career as a football player. Your willing to give up everything for it.
"Once you reach that goal, only then do you get to know the whole world around it."
This is what Babel is all about!!! He is selfish, cares only about himself.....and his BLUE BOOTS!! Somebody get him a tissue, i think he's about to cry!!!
GO HOME BABEL!!! GO NOW SO AT LEAST WE CAN GET POTENTIALLY HALF THE RIDICULOUS FEE THAT WE PAID FOR YOU!!!
What a waste of time!!!! He is the new Harry Kewell!!!
Selfish, arrogant, couldnt give a toss about Liverpool and puts in no effort whatsoever!!!
mourinho? really? mourinho is a proven winner. every club he goes, he win titles. it will be great if we have a manager like him. but i dont see a chance that he will be our manager. i dont think he want to. we dont need him, but someone who is a winner like him, without his attitude of course.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with this article.
ReplyDeleteSami was in mid 30's, wanted to play every game while he still could, and was our 4th choice centre half, playing very few games in 08/09. Should we have said, "No Sami despite being a loyal servant you can rot on the bench at LFC?" No we should not...the Liverpool way is to look after players at the end of their career and Rafa's treatment of Sami was correct on this occasion.
ReplyDeleteThis shows how much tact Babel has:
ReplyDeleteSpeaking in the Sun (THE SCUM), he said: "All the forwards, they always live for their own success. It is hard for someone who isn't selfish by nature to act selfish."
"I don't know if my team-mates were shocked by my new character but I do notice once in a while they get confused.
"Normally I would pass the ball - now I take the shot myself more often. I see how they look at me with a face that says 'Hey I am free!'
"But I'm not going to explain it any further because they don't give me any explanation when I ask for the ball.
"We have a lot of different cultures and on the pitch we are a tight group. But outside the pitch everyone goes their own way.
"The Spanish-speaking guys are very close. The youths hang out together. And I get along with Benayoun and Lucas.
"Dirk Kuyt? I don't really hang out with him. Dirk got accepted in the group of the Spanish-speaking players.
"He is very friendly with them and it looks as if he understands their jokes."
Babel has also said that he has sacrificed a lot in his time at Anfield.
"As a Liverpool player I can't play in my blue Nike boots. They strongly discourage me from doing that.
"Blue is Everton's colour and Liverpool and Everton are rivals in everything.
"As a small boy you dream about a career as a football player. Your willing to give up everything for it.
"Once you reach that goal, only then do you get to know the whole world around it."
This is what Babel is all about!!! He is selfish, cares only about himself.....and his BLUE BOOTS!! Somebody get him a tissue, i think he's about to cry!!!
GO HOME BABEL!!! GO NOW SO AT LEAST WE CAN GET POTENTIALLY HALF THE RIDICULOUS FEE THAT WE PAID FOR YOU!!!
What a waste of time!!!! He is the new Harry Kewell!!!
Selfish, arrogant, couldnt give a toss about Liverpool and puts in no effort whatsoever!!!
I completely agree on the point that Babel has never been given a proper chance. It's a complete joke and the one thing that has grated on me. Kuyt is a decent player and should be considered as excellent backup, nothing more. Babel's talent is being wasted at Liverpool.
ReplyDeleteR - the interview was NOT given to the sun. You're so desaperate to make babel look bad that you're not thinking fairly. The sun lifted the quotes from an interview he did witrh a dutch magazine. I agree that it was inadvisable for babel to say some of the things he did, but that does not change the appalling mismanagement he has suffered at the hands of benitez.
ReplyDeleteJaimie Kanwar
(via BlackBerry)
Babel ain't the problem..... Benitez is.
ReplyDeleteWe needed goals last night to help us if Lyon had drawn or won. He played two defensive midfielders from start to finiah. Withdrew the only player who managed to find the net, and gave Agulani 37 secs to use his apparent creative genius (yet to see it).
Am i the only one who thinks that ever since Benitez signed a contract ensuring he would get paid millions if fired.... he seems to have done nothing but try and get fired.
Babel starts and finishes every single training session with the Reds. Based on those innumerable appearances, which neither you nor I nor anyone on these boards typically sees, he has shown that he can't cut it in the first team. Of course I know Jamie Kanwar would be the best Liverpool manager in history and win us an extra 5 European Cups and 10 Premiership titles if given the chance. But as it stands Rafa gets to call the shots based on what he sees day in and day out from every single player. I'd trust that more than the opinion of fans who observe at most 3hrs of action per week on the tv.
ReplyDeleteI always thought the training ground was where you proved your worth, so the only thing you can deduce is babel is not doing it in training. there could be any amount of reasons why the manager has no confidence in him. it could be he just can not do the job he is being asked to do. I have seen him play for holland and his style of play suits there system. so the real question is should liverpool change the way they play to fit babel into the system.
ReplyDeletethe system we have played has been successful over the last few years, but has fallen apart this season, so far. we do need a plan B which we don't seem to have.
but what I get sick of is all this "poor babel hasn't had a chance" crap. the poor boy, like most footballers is earning millions, and is only worried about missing out on the world cup. that says it all about his attitude. it all about me.
kuyt however works for the team and what he lacks in ability he makes up for in work rate. now if babel had the same work rate to match the ability he has, then you would be looking at a world class player. he has been tagged with the ability to be the new henry. they may have the same ability but henry had a fantastic work rate as well, something that babel does not seam to care about
<span>Kuyt might work hard but he has no end product, he needs to be replaced with someone who has end product.</span>
ReplyDeleteI would rather have someone who works half as much as him, but produces more!
It's not about hard work, It's all about smart work!
Big game on Sunday lads. bRUSH yourselves down and get going again. Real fans are right behind the club. YNWA
ReplyDeleteSaw the headline on Red and White Kop, thought to myself, this can only be a Jaimie Kanwar "article" and lo and behold... Rafa has wasted Babel, Kuyt is garbage, blah blah blah. We get the message.
ReplyDeleteWhy oh why would he replace Kuyt?
ReplyDeleteHis ratio of assists/goals in the premier league this season are better than Arshavin, A. Young or Malouda
He's the consummate professional
Get behind the team
YNWA
Get behind the team? How about you open your eyes? The guy is dreadful, how can you not see that? I suppose you're one of the idiots who thinks we can still win the league? We're back to square 1, 5 years behind Arsenal Chelsea and Utd.
ReplyDelete'Real' fans are blind....Us 'true/honest/enlightened' fans...sorry no we're just fans and not some kind of messiah, cast a critical eye over the players and the club. Are you happy to be 7th in the league? I'm not. But you keep being a 'real' fan and thinking everything is rosey in eden!
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I've not read any of your post since the first sentence because it's crap. I've played professional sport, and you prove your worth on the pitch, not when you're playing unopposed 5-a-side and practicing your kick-ups.
ReplyDeleteThis is becoming a cliche now - Babel's attitude?! Why is it bad?! Please provide examples. Don't just jump on thew bandwagon. So he didn't want to walk off an injury?! Hmmm, I wonder why that could be? Could it have anything to do with the possibility that walking it of might make the injuury worse? Why does that give him a bad attitude? Babel does not have a bad attitude at all - he is frustrated at being treated like a peasant by Benitez.
ReplyDeleteExactly - why are we in a position where we only have ONE right-midfielder?! The idea that Kuyt should retain his place in the team just because he does some donkey work for Johnson is just ridiculous. Furthermore, it doesn't make sense because Babel predominantly plays on the left - if he was so suspect defensively, why does he play there?!
ReplyDeleteBenitez spent 11.5m on Babel - it is his duty NOt to waste that money. So far he has asted it because he has not utilised Babel effectively. That money could be money well spent if Babel was given a chance.
currently is there anything left other than being a loyal lfc supporter? if loyalty were points we'll win every season, unfortunately its not and it seems rafa is just as loyal to players as we are to the manager...maybe a bit of out cry can help a bit. Its been almost 20yrs people...any change could be the end of our long wait...
ReplyDeleteWhat ankle injury?! Jesus, the Kuyt aplogists are making it up now. Kuyt does not have an injury and is not carrying an injury. If he is, please provide links to evidence that confirm this. He suffered an ankjle injury 6 weeks ago whilst on international duty but there is no evidence to suggest that this is still ongoing.
ReplyDeleteYes, but he was substituted or on the bench in nearly 90% of those appearances! Why can't you and other fans stop being so pigheaded? Any player who was subjected to the Babel treatment would struggle for consistency. You cannot ignore the fact that he has never started and finished more than two games in a row AND has been dropped almost every time he's scored a goal.
ReplyDeleteAre you incapable of being fair, or does your irrational hatred of Babel prevent you from seeing things clearly?
Matt, that has to be one of the lamest excuses I've seen yet. The only thing you can deduce is that Babel is not doing it in training?! it couldn't just be that Benitez is a breathtakingly poor man-manager who has favourites, could it?
ReplyDeleteThe more of this stuff I read the more I realise that you just don't understand what Dirk Kuyt does for the team. There is more to football than assist and goal stats. If you really don't get that then it's not wonder you're frustrated with his selection. I just think you'd feel better about the whole thing if you tried to investigate the issue a bit more rather than just venting.
ReplyDeleteGive it a rest, Fraggs. I guess you are the only one who can see Benitez's genius when it comes to Kuyt and the rest of us just can't see it?!
ReplyDeleteWe understand what Kuyt does for the team: he defends well; he tracks back; he provides cover for Johnson; he (allegedly) opens up space for other players; he sacrificises himself for the team and *insert tired cliche here*
We don't care.
He is not *consistently* good enough to be first choice right-midfielder.
Every seaosn he goes through barren spells where he contributes next to nothing in an attacking sense.
And that is his principal role, remember? irrespective of what Benitez is telling him to do on the pitch, his main job as an attacking player is to score and create goals and/or create attacks that lead to assists and goals.
He has failed miserably at that in the last 13 games.
Last season, therre were two barren spells, including one 22 game run from November to March, in which he managed a mere 2 goals and no assists.
Just imagine if we'd had a right-mid in the last 13 games who actually had some end product. Perhaps we'd still be in the CL; perhaps we would have turned a couple of defeats into draws; a couple of draws into wins.
Both Benitez and Kuyt are at fault here: Benitez for pigheadedly playing him every game; Kuyt for failing to do his job as an attacking player.
you don't watch football do you, Jamie?
ReplyDeletespecial boy
ReplyDeleteit could be, but our previous league positions and reaching the knock out stages of the champs league suggest not. it at least makes him the fourth best manager in the prem league on a regular basis.
ReplyDeleteall managers have favorite players, for one reason or another, that is football. how come beny forced his way into being a regular, and babel hasn't? that says more about the player than the manager.
beny new what he had to do to become a regular, why does babel not know what he has to do.
How can anyone watch babel and think he is good? He is garbage.
ReplyDeleteHe has the touch of a rapist, is selfish,lacks any commitment at all, Gives the ball away far to much and when he is through on goal he flaps it big time.
NGog has looked far more composed, Stronger and has a better footballing brain
Babel has pace and can't even use that properly. we could him 100 games and he would be still be crap. I would rather play Pacheco
Kuyt is simply indulgable when you have 10 good players around him . He is a jittery back passer with poor technical skill and no pace, his only commendable contribution is his work rate. Yes he should be brought on when we go one or two goals up in a tough game in the second half to run his nuts off. I would love to see a natural winger on the right It is soul destoying to see him link up with other players around the box and for play to break down because of his poorly weighted passes. He is so hit and miss. I keep saying it to people, we will never win anything while you play Kuyt and Lucas together, they just lack class and offer very little. I'm sure Gerrard personally feels the same! Unfortunately these two players are never on the injury list, its always the essential players and anyway Rafa continues to favour both of them despite the fact that they offer so little in their positions, I suspect Rafa is grooming Lucas for Mascherano's position when he eventually leaves for Barcelona in the summer ( and who could blame him!). For all those people that advocate Lucas getting time as he's still learning. Sorry I don't see it going anywhere, and into the bargain, some players are just unlucky ie .deflections ,penalties ,stupid free kicks, and Lucas is one of them!
ReplyDeleteJamie i swear you know nothing at all about football. I bet you read everything on the net and watch all the games but you just don't see it. Real liverpool fans would never drop Dirk because we see that he would walk through walls for us if we asked him. and he loves our club.
ReplyDeleteAnd i've lost count of the amount of times he has won a tackle in our half and set the counter attack up.
And cast your mind back before Rafa came. Winning the Uefa cup was all we could dream of. HE has turned our club around so much, to the point were we could actually win the champs league and have.
So all the stats and articles you've read meen nothing because lets face it we were rubish for years before Rafa
so, please tell me how you pick players to play in your team if what you do in training counts for nothing?
ReplyDeletealso how do you prove your worthy to be on the pitch?
and you say I talk crap
Love to argue with Jamie but this time he's dead right. Not only has Babel been rarely given consecutive starts he's rarely played in his best positions, on the right or upfront. Of course he wants to leave now. He can't get a game of football! Nani's had more chances than him!!!! All this Anti-Babel crap is bordering on the youknowwhat. No one's said a word about Mascherano engineering moves and he plays all the time. But Babel who has had the last three years of his career stranded on what Stevie G called 'The Graveyard Shift', is crucified. This guy begged Benitez for a chance in summer and so far he's had fleeting appearances on the left. But when he came on for 10 mins on the right against West Ham he produced a lovely jink and cross for Torres to convert. Kuyt hasn't done close to that all season. The boy has a point. Rafa's f**king up.
ReplyDeletethey can afford 30mill players we can't. barry went to city for an extra 40grand a week. we where luck to get torres, mainly because his motivation is not cash. what top players are going to come here when they can get more money some where else.
ReplyDeleteYou know what I don't understand?
ReplyDeleteWhen a worldclass player like Mascherano said that he would like to play for Barcelona (who wouldn't?) you (or at least some other incompetent writer for this site) say that we don't need him and that we should sell him. But then you wish that Babel plays more regurarly, although he said many times , that he is unhappy at this club and that he would like a change. Babel is not good enough for us, but Mascherano is one of our few worldclass players.
any players main job is to do what the manager tells him to do that is how a team works, or why have a manger just pick 11 names out of a hat and say go play.
ReplyDeletei don't like babel or kuyt but i can see where you're coming from jaimie babel is underused but i would sell him, and kuyt is just plain boring - football is a form of entertainment is it not? Regardless of this rafa plays cautious, boring players with boring tactics and being a liverpool fan for all my life it makes me sick watching chelsea or the mancs playing more attractive football. Kuyt is a goal poacher and should be played alongside torres or as cover for him, and we should play benayoun on the right, riera on the left. Overall rafa has no idea on how to buy wingers, he sucks
ReplyDeleteThe FACT is easy to see.. Rafa's thinking might be on these lines !! Just guessing, dont slate me..
ReplyDeleteIf i play Babel there is 30-40 % chance of winning but a good 30-40% of losing as well and if I put Kuyt I have a 80-90% chance of NOT losing the game.. I know where Rafa would put his money :)
Nick, I posted the original comment to which you refer. No, I don't think we will win anything this season. Yes, I do think Rafa is a poor tactician, motivator and communicator. I would prefer a new manager - not a new five year plan. He has treated a number of professionlas very poorly and his public persona as an ambassador for LFC is, I believe, very poor. However, given the squad we currently have and the formation we currently play, Kuyt is very effective. He does give his all, he is professional, and he does not give up. Exactly the type of virtues we need. It is not Kuyt that we should use to measure our limitations against - or any one player for that matter - in respect of our competitors.
ReplyDeleteI was commenting on Kuyt and what he does for the team.
It clear to me that we need to support the team at this point and hope that Rafa's employers make the correct decisions in the interest of the club. Not holding my breath on that one.
Its true that players should be picked on form. And it is true that we could have a more effective right sided midfileder. However, I think you're being a little unfair suggesting its Kuyt's fault we are not in the knockout stages of the CL. If memory serves, it was Kuyt that scored the goal to beat Standard Liege that got us through to the knockout stages of the CL last year. I would consider the injuries to Torres and Gerrard to be much more likely to be the reasons for our poor form and failure to qualify for the next stages. And of course the manager's failure to have an adequate back up striker.
ReplyDeleteIts a Another Anti Rafa Rant, Guess The Author!!!
ReplyDeleteNow thats a good 3 points
personally i think both kuyt and babel are dead weight. i have said for years that kuyt is useless and we could find someone better. i don't buy this arguement about him working his socks off either. you're telling me you can't find another player with better talent who can track back and defend as well?! to be honest if kuyt was better at holding on to the ball and beating defenders he would have to chase them down as much. besides why do we have the 2 holding midfielders? sell kuyt, he was a crap striker and now he's a crap winger.
ReplyDeletebabel is a lost cause. sure he deserved more chances than he was given, but fact of the matter is he wasn't given the chances and now his performances are showing this. we don't have time to waste nursing him back to health. i think january could be a very imiportant month for the club. let's get rid of some dead weight and bring in a few quality signings. i am tired of settling for mediocracy. if we end up not qualifying for europe i am curious to see how loyal some of these players would be considering.
<span>How can you give Dirk Kuyt so many opportunities on field, his performance has been disgusting, sorry but hard work isn’t the only thing that cuts it the Premier league, maybe if your working in the field it is. If only Ryan Babel was given the chance to play on the right hand side as much as Kuyt has im sure he would have improved immensely. Its sad cause Ryan is losing out, Dirk Kuyt isn’t getting any younger and should be dropped. Play someone who is still young and bring something different to the game. </span>
ReplyDelete<span>I honestly don’t rate Dirk Kuyt as right winger, maybe a backup striker, "MAYBE". I believe give the youngest Nabil EL ZAR a chance as well on the right, from what I have seen he has great potential. Nabil reminds me a little similar to the way Aaron Lennon play, quick, shape and hungry.</span>
<span>Back to Ryan Babel, why play him on the left....were not trying to replicate how Henry play when he first started off. Play Ryan on the right, its simple his a right footer....</span>
Please comment back if you dont agree with something ive said :)
P.S i dont think 1 assist in 18.h hours of football is from a lack of form, i just think this player is a piece of Sh#T. look below and it shows you the return the Dirk Kuyt has offered in 94 games.This was copied from another article that JAMIE KANWAR wrote. I hope you dont mind mate!
Would you sign any player that has this return after 94 games...........???
Here are some examples:
<span>Season</span>
<span>Months</span>
<span>Run of Games</span>
<span>Goals</span>
<span>Assists</span>
<span>2006-07</span>
<span>Feb to May</span>
<span>17</span>
<span>4</span>
<span>1</span>
<span>2007-08</span>
<span>Oct to Feb</span>
<span>20</span>
<span>2</span>
<span>0</span>
<span>2007-08</span>
<span>Mar to May</span>
<span>13</span>
<span>1</span>
<span>3</span>
<span>2008-09</span>
<span>Aug to Sep</span>
<span>12</span>
<span>1</span>
<span>2</span>
<span>2008-09</span>
<span>Nov to Mar</span>
<span>21</span>
<span>2</span>
<span>1</span>
<span>2009-10</span>
<span>Sep to Nov</span>
<span>11</span>
<span>0</span>
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<span>Moses</span>
<span>How can you give Dirk Kuyt so many opportunities on field, his performance has been disgusting, sorry but hard work isn’t the only thing that cuts it the Premier league, maybe if your working in the field it is. If only Ryan Babel was given the chance to play on the right hand side as much as Kuyt has im sure he would have improved immensely. Its sad cause Ryan is losing out, Dirk Kuyt isn’t getting any younger and should be dropped. Play someone who is still young and bring something different to the game. </span>
ReplyDelete<span>I honestly don’t rate Dirk Kuyt as right winger, maybe a backup striker, "MAYBE". I believe give the youngest Nabil EL ZAR a chance as well on the right, from what I have seen he has great potential. Nabil reminds me a little similar to the way Aaron Lennon play, quick, shape and hungry.</span>
<span>Back to Ryan Babel, why play him on the left....were not trying to replicate how Henry play when he first started off. Play Ryan on the right, its simple his a right footer....</span>
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<span><span>MOSES</span></span>
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ReplyDelete</span></span>"Playing Lucas has been a necessity! He is a much better player than Babel for a start."
Please tell me that's a joke. In what way is Lucas a much better player than Babel? What are you using for comparison? Because it definitely can't be goals since Lucas has Negative 1 (own goal) to Babel's 2 or 3.Don't just make statements like that if you don't bother or can't support them with FACTS.
And how is playing Lucas a necessity when there's already a far superior defensive midfielder with better passing ability in the team?And most of Babel's goals come when the game is already won because he only usually gets the chance to play when he is brought on as a substitute.......when the game is already won. When and how else do you expect him to score? From the substitute's bench? And how often does Lucas (or Kuyt for that matter) score BEFORE the game is won?</span>
........do you mean correct like letting Sami play only 4 minutes as a late substitute in his farewell game last season and basically in a game which effectively meant nothing as ManU had already won the title? Because that's not how I would treat a player who has been loyal and great player to the club for 10 years.
ReplyDeleteAnd how is that defense working out for us this season since we got rid of Sami? Is it any better? How are those set-pieces with all those headers that Sami used to win? Because Sami's new team with an improved defense is at the top, or near the top of the Bundesliga with Sami starting every game this year. Can you say stupid move Rafa? Because I can.
.......except when Babel scores them late in games (because that's the only chance he gets given that he comes on as a substitute). Then it's "he only scores when the game is already won against crap teams"
ReplyDeleteAfter all, as we all know, ManU (at Anfield last Season) are a "crap team" - since Babel scored the winner late against them when they were still threatening to score the winner themselves.
You are getting boring bro...change your tune a bit. More of the same means more of nothing....
ReplyDeleteHi Jamie, sad about your team loosing to Besiktas this evening.
ReplyDeleteWhat's all this talk about babels great ability? He can run,yes. But what else? His first touch is almost as hard as his shot for goodness sake.. When he's playing we drop our posession dramatically and the flow of our game vanishes. So many times he has actually been hurting us a lot by coming on when we've been behind. With opposition backing and no space to run in he just ends up loosing the ball and just kill time for the opposition. If we're ahead and there's lots of space he can be ok, but never good. He simply doesn't have a footballing brain. American football would be more like it for him, i guess. As he clearly is an athelete.
ReplyDeleteLets all get real here...i wont even mention Arsenal, Manc or Chelsea players in that position(allthough i do think thats who we should compare squads with if we want to challange them) does anyone her seriously consider kuyt to be a better payer than Young at villa, Lennon at Spurs, Wight Phillips at Man City ? .
ReplyDeleteKuyt technically is a poor player with an awful first touch and generally poor distribution, and please dont fall for the excuse that he works hard, surely the minimum requirement for any player is that they work hard.
I personally think he should be dropped allthough benitez will never do it and it does make you wonder wether we will ever attract the kind of creative right winger we need when you see the way Babel, Pennant etc have been treated by the man, both players by the way with far more technical ability than Kuyt. Could you for example see Wenger treating Babel like the scapegoat Benitez obviously does.
The finest Dutch player of his generation....said by van Basten.....the player on the recieving end of this admiration..Ryan Babel.
So you have two answers to my arguments
ReplyDelete1. 'its ridiculous.'
Very good argument mate - congratulations.
2. "Its Rafa fault." Which is off topic. We weren't talking about Rafa faults on transfer market - we were talking about Rafa selection. Very good argument mate - congratulations.
If you stick to this level of the debate - I'm off.
Babel can easily paly behind Torres in Gerrards role when he's injured.
ReplyDeleteBenitez has fooled us into believing this guy (Babel) is an out-and-out winger.
Babel behind Torres as a purely attacking option; much further up the pitch and Babel would be descent.
I think Benitez has a thing for Blondes!
Thats it? You have nothing to say apart from 'its ridiculous'?
ReplyDeleteWhich exactly my point is ridiculous? Where am I wrong? Ridiculous... Very well Jaimie, great argument.
Ps. We are not discussing Rafa's transfer failures. We are discussing his selection. So please stick to the subject and dont use the red herring tactics.
so you want rooney on the pitch, because : rooney is on the pitch.
ReplyDeleteit doesnt matter if he scores or not, but you rather a striker to be on the pitch , for the sake of being on the pitch ? thats really an intresting view you got there.
torres is TOP goal scorrer this season despite hes "not able to play the mahority of the season" and for that you should pray thanking god for torres being injured so much, because if he played as much as rooney, he would even make you "TOP STRIKER" looks more pathetic.
when you buy a striker you buy him to score goals, not to enjoy looking at his bum bouncing on the pitch. end of stroy.
now collect your rubbish thoughts and suggestions and get to ROM, there is a place for scums like you there but not here.
nonsence, if he cant play because he needs a rest, then give babel his chance??! playing babbel who is begging to starts more wouldn't end up any worse than presisting to play kuyt which "cant react fast because hes running empty" surley ??!
ReplyDeleteOkay Jamie....this would be a good point...apart from the fact you are assuming that Ryan could hack ten games in a row.
ReplyDeleteI was at Anfield against City and to see this player (who has been demanding playing time) give up so easily after 20 mins and a little tap on his ankle, made my blood boil. Is that the actions of a man who wants to bust a gut to nail down a place in the team?
The look on the skipper's face said it all.
For me Ryan Babel is now finished at Liverpool.
As far as I am concerned, he can go and wear his blue boots whenever the hell he likes...for me he should be barred from Anfield. We should rip up his contract, as he has no heart and no desire.
And I tell you what.....Voronin, Deggen, Skrtel, Lucas and The Greek can all join him on the way out in Jan. At this point I would rather give the kids a go. Too many of our players are weak and meak.....Ryan being the king daddy of heartless no-hopers.
How you can call for him to be given a run in the team I'll never know....do you even watch our games?
Ask us season tickets holders what we think and I bet every one of us will want rid of this tool.
torres is not top goal scorer, defoe is... get your facts straight.
ReplyDeleteBabel is inconsistent and somewhat lazy... that's fact. However, we should give him more game time as he is among the few players who can beat defenders in this liverpool team and make things happen.
ReplyDeleteHow many times have we talked about Rafa being too cautious about his approach of the game? Giving 110% for every game as Kuyt is appreciated but when you simply aren't good enough technically... and with poor first touch as him.... i would say No please!! In our team, we have many 'good' players...... like kuyt, but not 'Great' players.... I can see Babel, if given more chances and patience, will become a great player given his natural abilities.... if we sell him now..... for example, to Arsenal, i see another henry coming out of age!
whats the point running all over the pitch 4 90 minutes without create any chance for our forward n can't cross properly.i think we should use him as subtitute or right back will suit his style of play(always pass the ball backward n also cant dribble pass defender)
ReplyDeleteDiscussions about Babel are pointless - he has always let his head drop and now has passed the point of no return (unless Rafa goes).
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of Kuyt, he and many others are having a bad time of it at the moment - evn Gerrard, Carragher and Masch are below their best. Lets criticise Kuyt if he fails to improve when we turn the corner
You talk of fans been pigheaded but let them rant away v Rafa, kuyt etc if its on the lines of your train of thought , and ive no hatred for Babel whatsoever as ive said
ReplyDelete1.Strength
2.Speed.
3.Hard and accurate shot when on his game.
4,Footballing brain is missing imo and the wrong attitude.4 , is the way my feelings have changed from what ive seen for myself , i had Ryan down as the one last season and this season to make the difference and honestly believe if he had been on par with kuyt goals assists and work-rate last year we would have been champions not that he was to blame but the one i thought was capable of exploding into what i still think he can be ... but his attitude is all wrong , you can see his body language on the pitch when he has to work back or when he loses the ball or his touch lets him down .Why do you think he has gone a run in games in the side , the lads so frustrating to watch and disappointing knowing what he can do add kuyt's attitude to Ryan's qualities and we would have a player that would be undroppable and i hope it is with us , but i just dont see it.
And for making up injuries for kuyt you will just have to take my word he has been carrying a ankle injury for over 8 weeks and been taking pain killer injections for it .... im no ITK but i have it on good as source as it comes.Kuyt's been disappointing this season and with Torres also out .. ive said to myself there the 2 positions i want to see Ryan get a chance , but if Rafa doesn't trust him there ..... its the managers knowledge of Ryan who sees him in training nearly every day of the week that i will trust ....
JAIMIE WHY HAVE YOU AGAIN DELETED MY COMMENT?
ReplyDeleteIt was not offensive and it didn't break the comments policy rules but yet AGAIN you have deleted a comment I have made because it exposes your argument as yet another Rafa bashing.
Ryan Babel has had plenty of opportunities to prove himself at Liverpool, his performances started to slip very early on in his career with us and therefore he was dropped in favour of Benayoun who has performed much better.
In Babel's first season (2007/08) he STARTED 29 Matches and in those matches played a total of 2160 minutes of football, averaging 75 minutes per game.
His return was 3 goals and 5 assists in those 29 starts.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 2160
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 75
GOALS: 3
ASSISTS: 5
MINUTES PER GOAL: 720
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 432
So Benitez didn't give him a chance Jaimie? From Feb 2008 to April 2008 he started 11 CONSECUTIVE matches.
SO WHAT ABOUT THE GAMES HE CAME ON AS A SUBSTITUTE?
In Babel's first season he came on as a substitute on 18 occasions, he amassed 414 minutes of playing time averaging 23 minutes per substitute appearance.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 18
MINUTES ON PITCH: 414
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 23
GOALS: 7
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 60
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 414
Hmm... doesn't take a genius to work out he was FAR more effective coming on as a substitute against tired legs than he was starting matches.
In summary of Babel's first season he averaged 75 minutes of playing time when starting matches but delivered little in comparison to his impact as a substitute, facts you cannot argue with.
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 13
MINUTES ON PITCH: 1093
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 85
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 3
MINUTES PER GOAL: 547
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 364
In the 13 matches that Babel started he completed 9 full matches! Hardly not being given a chance is it?
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 544
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 19
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 272
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 544
Again it would appear that he's more effective as a substitute than when starting matches. He played 9 full matches last season which I feel is a decent chance and he averaged higher minutes on the pitch from his 13 starts. Again, is this not Rafa giving him a chance?
Now, in Babel's first season he was challenging Benayoun for a place in the 1st team, so how did Benayoun compare?
Benayoun started 27 games in 2007/08 and played 2072 minutes from his starts averaging 77 minutes per game. He scored 10 goals and contributed 4 assists, his minutes per goal was 207 and his minutes per assist was 518. The harsh reality is that Benayoun was a far more effective and consistent performer than Babel in their respective first seasons.
Unfortunately for Babel, Benayoun has an even STRONGER second season finishing the 2008/09 in top form and picking up from where he left off this term.
The statistics are there to prove it. Benayoun has been a far more consistent performer than Babel when he's been given his opportunities, when he's been left out of the team or played just a few minutes as a substitute he's been professional and worked hard to EARN his place back where as Babel has continued to bleat to the press about his lack of opportunities, blaming Rafa for his own shortcomings.
THERE ARE TWO WAYS OF DOING THINGS FOLKS, THE BENAYOUN WAY ANF THE BABEL WAY. ONE INVOLVES A LOT MORE SNIPING AND WHINGING THAN THE OTHER.
JAIMIE WHY HAVE YOU AGAIN DELETED MY COMMENT?
ReplyDeleteIt was not offensive and it didn't break the comments policy rules but yet AGAIN you have deleted a comment I have made because it exposes your argument as yet another Rafa bashing.
Ryan Babel has had plenty of opportunities to prove himself at Liverpool, his performances started to slip very early on in his career with us and therefore he was dropped in favour of Benayoun who has performed much better.
In Babel's first season (2007/08) he STARTED 29 Matches and in those matches played a total of 2160 minutes of football, averaging 75 minutes per game.
His return was 3 goals and 5 assists in those 29 starts.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 2160
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 75
GOALS: 3
ASSISTS: 5
MINUTES PER GOAL: 720
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 432
So Benitez didn't give him a chance Jaimie? From Feb 2008 to April 2008 he started 11 CONSECUTIVE matches.
SO WHAT ABOUT THE GAMES HE CAME ON AS A SUBSTITUTE?
In Babel's first season he came on as a substitute on 18 occasions, he amassed 414 minutes of playing time averaging 23 minutes per substitute appearance.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 18
MINUTES ON PITCH: 414
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 23
GOALS: 7
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 60
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 414
Hmm... doesn't take a genius to work out he was FAR more effective coming on as a substitute against tired legs than he was starting matches.
In summary of Babel's first season he averaged 75 minutes of playing time when starting matches but delivered little in comparison to his impact as a substitute, facts you cannot argue with.
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 13
MINUTES ON PITCH: 1093
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 85
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 3
MINUTES PER GOAL: 547
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 364
In the 13 matches that Babel started he completed 9 full matches! Hardly not being given a chance is it?
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 544
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 19
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 272
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 544
Again it would appear that he's more effective as a substitute than when starting matches. He played 9 full matches last season which I feel is a decent chance and he averaged higher minutes on the pitch from his 13 starts. Again, is this not Rafa giving him a chance?
Now, in Babel's first season he was challenging Benayoun for a place in the 1st team, so how did Benayoun compare?
Benayoun started 27 games in 2007/08 and played 2072 minutes from his starts averaging 77 minutes per game. He scored 10 goals and contributed 4 assists, his minutes per goal was 207 and his minutes per assist was 518. The harsh reality is that Benayoun was a far more effective and consistent performer than Babel in their respective first seasons.
Unfortunately for Babel, Benayoun has an even STRONGER second season finishing the 2008/09 in top form and picking up from where he left off this term.
The statistics are there to prove it. Benayoun has been a far more consistent performer than Babel when he's been given his opportunities, when he's been left out of the team or played just a few minutes as a substitute he's been professional and worked hard to EARN his place back where as Babel has continued to bleat to the press about his lack of opportunities, blaming Rafa for his own shortcomings.
THERE ARE TWO WAYS OF DOING THINGS FOLKS, THE BENAYOUN WAY ANF THE BABEL WAY. ONE INVOLVES A LOT MORE SNIPING AND WHINGING THAN THE OTHER.
JAIMIE WHY HAVE YOU AGAIN DELETED MY COMMENT?
ReplyDeleteIt was not offensive and it didn't break the comments policy rules but yet AGAIN you have deleted a comment I have made because it exposes your argument as yet another Rafa bashing.
Ryan Babel has had plenty of opportunities to prove himself at Liverpool, his performances started to slip very early on in his career with us and therefore he was dropped in favour of Benayoun who has performed much better.
In Babel's first season (2007/08) he STARTED 29 Matches and in those matches played a total of 2160 minutes of football, averaging 75 minutes per game.
His return was 3 goals and 5 assists in those 29 starts.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 2160
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 75
GOALS: 3
ASSISTS: 5
MINUTES PER GOAL: 720
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 432
So Benitez didn't give him a chance Jaimie? From Feb 2008 to April 2008 he started 11 CONSECUTIVE matches.
SO WHAT ABOUT THE GAMES HE CAME ON AS A SUBSTITUTE?
In Babel's first season he came on as a substitute on 18 occasions, he amassed 414 minutes of playing time averaging 23 minutes per substitute appearance.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 18
MINUTES ON PITCH: 414
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 23
GOALS: 7
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 60
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 414
Hmm... doesn't take a genius to work out he was FAR more effective coming on as a substitute against tired legs than he was starting matches.
In summary of Babel's first season he averaged 75 minutes of playing time when starting matches but delivered little in comparison to his impact as a substitute, facts you cannot argue with.
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 13
MINUTES ON PITCH: 1093
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 85
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 3
MINUTES PER GOAL: 547
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 364
In the 13 matches that Babel started he completed 9 full matches! Hardly not being given a chance is it?
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 544
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 19
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 272
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 544
Again it would appear that he's more effective as a substitute than when starting matches. He played 9 full matches last season which I feel is a decent chance and he averaged higher minutes on the pitch from his 13 starts. Again, is this not Rafa giving him a chance?
Now, in Babel's first season he was challenging Benayoun for a place in the 1st team, so how did Benayoun compare?
Benayoun started 27 games in 2007/08 and played 2072 minutes from his starts averaging 77 minutes per game. He scored 10 goals and contributed 4 assists, his minutes per goal was 207 and his minutes per assist was 518. The harsh reality is that Benayoun was a far more effective and consistent performer than Babel in their respective first seasons.
Unfortunately for Babel, Benayoun has an even STRONGER second season finishing the 2008/09 in top form and picking up from where he left off this term.
The statistics are there to prove it. Benayoun has been a far more consistent performer than Babel when he's been given his opportunities, when he's been left out of the team or played just a few minutes as a substitute he's been professional and worked hard to EARN his place back where as Babel has continued to bleat to the press about his lack of opportunities, blaming Rafa for his own shortcomings.
THERE ARE TWO WAYS OF DOING THINGS FOLKS, THE BENAYOUN WAY ANF THE BABEL WAY. ONE INVOLVES A LOT MORE SNIPING AND WHINGING THAN THE OTHER.
Using Jamie's stats stance against him just negates your argument. Everybody knows that you need a run of games in the Premiership to adjust to the pace and calibrate his touch on that level. Even more so you need a run of games in your best position. Ryan has rarely had that chance yet Kuyt and Lucas play thick or thin. My friends often tell me that if Babel was at Arsenal under Wenger he would be world class by now and I have to agree with him. To label him rubbish in the face of his past potential shown on the international stage and at Champions League level for Ajax and taking into account that he was heralded by the likes of Wenger and van Basten is bordering on the ridiculous. He has always played on the right of a front three and at the very least should be played on right. To ignore the fact that he's a pace merchant and play him on his wrong foot makes no sense to me. I'm a massive Rafa fan but he has mismanaged this talent and has never given him a fair shake in his best positions. Babel playing to his potential over the last 3 years would be a god send to us and we've potentially wasted one of Europe's brightest young RIGHT wingers/forwards in favour of Dirk Kuyt.
ReplyDeleteWe bought dirk as a forward so play him there. against man u he was one of are better players. back to goal hes not bad, holding things up leaving torres to do what he does best score goals. I agree with you jamie over babel he has not had a run of games and is always played out of position
ReplyDeletehe is not a left midfielder. he is the quickest player at anfield ,fact ,and one thing we do lack is a turn of pace to beat a man on the flanks. Or is rafa worried about babel playing well at right mid so he cant find a place
for dirk,because when everyone is fit he wont get a game up front. another quality of babel is he doesnt need 3 touches of the ball to get it under control which is usually a good sign for a footballer. are there any bird spotters online i am looking for a red breasted aquilani last spotted in italy to finish my collection.
JAIMIE WHY HAVE YOU AGAIN DELETED MY COMMENT?
ReplyDeleteIt was not offensive and it didn't break the comments policy rules but yet AGAIN you have deleted a comment I have made because it exposes your argument as yet another Rafa bashing.
Ryan Babel has had plenty of opportunities to prove himself at Liverpool, his performances started to slip very early on in his career with us and therefore he was dropped in favour of Benayoun who has performed much better.
In Babel's first season (2007/08) he STARTED 29 Matches and in those matches played a total of 2160 minutes of football, averaging 75 minutes per game.
His return was 3 goals and 5 assists in those 29 starts.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 2160
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 75
GOALS: 3
ASSISTS: 5
MINUTES PER GOAL: 720
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 432
So Benitez didn't give him a chance Jaimie? From Feb 2008 to April 2008 he started 11 CONSECUTIVE matches.
SO WHAT ABOUT THE GAMES HE CAME ON AS A SUBSTITUTE?
In Babel's first season he came on as a substitute on 18 occasions, he amassed 414 minutes of playing time averaging 23 minutes per substitute appearance.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 18
MINUTES ON PITCH: 414
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 23
GOALS: 7
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 60
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 414
Hmm... doesn't take a genius to work out he was FAR more effective coming on as a substitute against tired legs than he was starting matches.
In summary of Babel's first season he averaged 75 minutes of playing time when starting matches but delivered little in comparison to his impact as a substitute, facts you cannot argue with.
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 13
MINUTES ON PITCH: 1093
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 85
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 3
MINUTES PER GOAL: 547
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 364
In the 13 matches that Babel started he completed 9 full matches! Hardly not being given a chance is it?
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 544
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 19
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 272
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 544
Again it would appear that he's more effective as a substitute than when starting matches. He played 9 full matches last season which I feel is a decent chance and he averaged higher minutes on the pitch from his 13 starts. Again, is this not Rafa giving him a chance?
Now, in Babel's first season he was challenging Benayoun for a place in the 1st team, so how did Benayoun compare?
Benayoun started 27 games in 2007/08 and played 2072 minutes from his starts averaging 77 minutes per game. He scored 10 goals and contributed 4 assists, his minutes per goal was 207 and his minutes per assist was 518. The harsh reality is that Benayoun was a far more effective and consistent performer than Babel in their respective first seasons.
Unfortunately for Babel, Benayoun has an even STRONGER second season finishing the 2008/09 in top form and picking up from where he left off this term.
The statistics are there to prove it. Benayoun has been a far more consistent performer than Babel when he's been given his opportunities, when he's been left out of the team or played just a few minutes as a substitute he's been professional and worked hard to EARN his place back where as Babel has continued to bleat to the press about his lack of opportunities, blaming Rafa for his own shortcomings.
THERE ARE TWO WAYS OF DOING THINGS FOLKS, THE BENAYOUN WAY ANF THE BABEL WAY. ONE INVOLVES A LOT MORE SNIPING AND WHINGING THAN THE OTHER.
JAIMIE WHY HAVE YOU AGAIN DELETED MY COMMENT?
ReplyDeleteIt was not offensive and it didn't break the comments policy rules but yet AGAIN you have deleted a comment I have made because it exposes your argument as yet another Rafa bashing.
Ryan Babel has had plenty of opportunities to prove himself at Liverpool, his performances started to slip very early on in his career with us and therefore he was dropped in favour of Benayoun who has performed much better.
In Babel's first season (2007/08) he STARTED 29 Matches and in those matches played a total of 2160 minutes of football, averaging 75 minutes per game.
His return was 3 goals and 5 assists in those 29 starts.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 2160
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 75
GOALS: 3
ASSISTS: 5
MINUTES PER GOAL: 720
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 432
So Benitez didn't give him a chance Jaimie? From Feb 2008 to April 2008 he started 11 CONSECUTIVE matches.
SO WHAT ABOUT THE GAMES HE CAME ON AS A SUBSTITUTE?
In Babel's first season he came on as a substitute on 18 occasions, he amassed 414 minutes of playing time averaging 23 minutes per substitute appearance.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 18
MINUTES ON PITCH: 414
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 23
GOALS: 7
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 60
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 414
Hmm... doesn't take a genius to work out he was FAR more effective coming on as a substitute against tired legs than he was starting matches.
In summary of Babel's first season he averaged 75 minutes of playing time when starting matches but delivered little in comparison to his impact as a substitute, facts you cannot argue with.
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 13
MINUTES ON PITCH: 1093
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 85
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 3
MINUTES PER GOAL: 547
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 364
In the 13 matches that Babel started he completed 9 full matches! Hardly not being given a chance is it?
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 544
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 19
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 272
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 544
Again it would appear that he's more effective as a substitute than when starting matches. He played 9 full matches last season which I feel is a decent chance and he averaged higher minutes on the pitch from his 13 starts. Again, is this not Rafa giving him a chance?
Now, in Babel's first season he was challenging Benayoun for a place in the 1st team, so how did Benayoun compare?
Benayoun started 27 games in 2007/08 and played 2072 minutes from his starts averaging 77 minutes per game. He scored 10 goals and contributed 4 assists, his minutes per goal was 207 and his minutes per assist was 518. The harsh reality is that Benayoun was a far more effective and consistent performer than Babel in their respective first seasons.
Unfortunately for Babel, Benayoun has an even STRONGER second season finishing the 2008/09 in top form and picking up from where he left off this term.
The statistics are there to prove it. Benayoun has been a far more consistent performer than Babel when he's been given his opportunities, when he's been left out of the team or played just a few minutes as a substitute he's been professional and worked hard to EARN his place back where as Babel has continued to bleat to the press about his lack of opportunities, blaming Rafa for his own shortcomings.
THERE ARE TWO WAYS OF DOING THINGS FOLKS, THE BENAYOUN WAY ANF THE BABEL WAY. ONE INVOLVES A LOT MORE SNIPING AND WHINGING THAN THE OTHER.
JAIMIE WHY HAVE YOU AGAIN DELETED MY COMMENT?
ReplyDeleteIt was not offensive and it didn't break the comments policy rules but yet AGAIN you have deleted a comment I have made because it exposes your argument as yet another Rafa bashing.
Ryan Babel has had plenty of opportunities to prove himself at Liverpool, his performances started to slip very early on in his career with us and therefore he was dropped in favour of Benayoun who has performed much better.
In Babel's first season (2007/08) he STARTED 29 Matches and in those matches played a total of 2160 minutes of football, averaging 75 minutes per game.
His return was 3 goals and 5 assists in those 29 starts.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 2160
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 75
GOALS: 3
ASSISTS: 5
MINUTES PER GOAL: 720
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 432
So Benitez didn't give him a chance Jaimie? From Feb 2008 to April 2008 he started 11 CONSECUTIVE matches.
SO WHAT ABOUT THE GAMES HE CAME ON AS A SUBSTITUTE?
In Babel's first season he came on as a substitute on 18 occasions, he amassed 414 minutes of playing time averaging 23 minutes per substitute appearance.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 18
MINUTES ON PITCH: 414
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 23
GOALS: 7
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 60
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 414
Hmm... doesn't take a genius to work out he was FAR more effective coming on as a substitute against tired legs than he was starting matches.
In summary of Babel's first season he averaged 75 minutes of playing time when starting matches but delivered little in comparison to his impact as a substitute, facts you cannot argue with.
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 13
MINUTES ON PITCH: 1093
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 85
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 3
MINUTES PER GOAL: 547
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 364
In the 13 matches that Babel started he completed 9 full matches! Hardly not being given a chance is it?
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 544
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 19
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 272
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 544
Again it would appear that he's more effective as a substitute than when starting matches. He played 9 full matches last season which I feel is a decent chance and he averaged higher minutes on the pitch from his 13 starts. Again, is this not Rafa giving him a chance?
Now, in Babel's first season he was challenging Benayoun for a place in the 1st team, so how did Benayoun compare?
Benayoun started 27 games in 2007/08 and played 2072 minutes from his starts averaging 77 minutes per game. He scored 10 goals and contributed 4 assists, his minutes per goal was 207 and his minutes per assist was 518. The harsh reality is that Benayoun was a far more effective and consistent performer than Babel in their respective first seasons.
Unfortunately for Babel, Benayoun has an even STRONGER second season finishing the 2008/09 in top form and picking up from where he left off this term.
The statistics are there to prove it. Benayoun has been a far more consistent performer than Babel when he's been given his opportunities, when he's been left out of the team or played just a few minutes as a substitute he's been professional and worked hard to EARN his place back where as Babel has continued to bleat to the press about his lack of opportunities, blaming Rafa for his own shortcomings.
THERE ARE TWO WAYS OF DOING THINGS FOLKS, THE BENAYOUN WAY ANF THE BABEL WAY. ONE INVOLVES A LOT MORE SNIPING AND WHINGING THAN THE OTHER.
Ps: let's not forget that before Benayoun got a run in the side his agent was actively shopping himself to clubs. Even Lucas was talking Corinthians in the summer. And we all know what's been happening with Mascherano. All Ryan Babel has done is shop himself to Ajax ON LOAN. The lad clearly wants to play for Liverpool FC. But to play him in an alien position expecting him to go past players onto his wrong foot makes no sense. Steve Gerrard called the left side the graveyard shift in his autobiography and stated how demoralising it was to play there as a right footer. Of course the guy wants to play in the World Cup. Who wouldn't? The point is he wants to play for Liverpool in his best positions and that's not happening. He doesn't want to be known as a supersub and he actually begged Benitez to stay in summer. The level of vitriol aimed at the kid is disproportionate to the chances given to him. The problem is that 3 years down the line I still have no idea of how good a right winger or striker Ryan Babel actual is and that is the sad part.
ReplyDeletedid anyone see the game holland vs england this year. babel give are
ReplyDeleteright back a torrid time. man management benitez got none.
Getting back to the point of the debate...Kuyt.
ReplyDeleteIt's a very simple question - is he good enough to be Liverpool's right winger - NO.
If your on the wing you need pace, ability to take on and the ability to put in a decent cross. Kuyt cannot do any.
With regards to Babel - he needs to leave for one reason, he is not good enough to play for Liverpool (and there are many others - Kuyt included).
Desy I've not used Jaimie's statistics, as they're not Jaimie's, they've been gathered by a respect website and sports establishment.
ReplyDeletePlease show me where I've said Babel is rubbish.
I've not said he's rubbish I've merely showed that Benayoun has provided a much better attacking impetus when playing in the same position which as the statistics available show, is correct.
Babel doesn't play on the right for Holland, where did you get that from? KUYT is Hollands first choice right sided attacker, check the facts for yourself. It appears it's not just Rafa that prefers Kuyt to Babel, I wonder why that is?
Babel has all the ability to succeed yet he spits his dummy at every opportunity, if Rafa had "ruined" Babel, why is he a consistent inclusion in the Dutch National team? The only reason he didn't feature in Euro 2008 is due to injury, which happened when training with Holland.
If Rafa has ruined him why has he averaged more appearances in his first 2 full seasons at Liverpool than he did at Ajax?
Desy you've been hooked by Jaimie's anti Rafa agenda, wake up.
Desy I've not used Jaimie's statistics, as they're not Jaimie's, they've been gathered by a respect website and sports establishment.
ReplyDeletePlease show me where I've said Babel is rubbish.
I've not said he's rubbish I've merely showed that Benayoun has provided a much better attacking impetus when playing in the same position which as the statistics available show, is correct.
Babel doesn't play on the right for Holland, where did you get that from? KUYT is Hollands first choice right sided attacker, check the facts for yourself. It appears it's not just Rafa that prefers Kuyt to Babel, I wonder why that is?
Babel has all the ability to succeed yet he spits his dummy at every opportunity, if Rafa had "ruined" Babel, why is he a consistent inclusion in the Dutch National team? The only reason he didn't feature in Euro 2008 is due to injury, which happened when training with Holland.
If Rafa has ruined him why has he averaged more appearances in his first 2 full seasons at Liverpool than he did at Ajax?
Desy you've been hooked by Jaimie's anti Rafa agenda, wake up.
Desy I've not used Jaimie's statistics, as they're not Jaimie's, they've been gathered by a respect website and sports establishment.
ReplyDeletePlease show me where I've said Babel is rubbish.
I've not said he's rubbish I've merely showed that Benayoun has provided a much better attacking impetus when playing in the same position which as the statistics available show, is correct.
Babel doesn't play on the right for Holland, where did you get that from? KUYT is Hollands first choice right sided attacker, check the facts for yourself. It appears it's not just Rafa that prefers Kuyt to Babel, I wonder why that is?
Babel has all the ability to succeed yet he spits his dummy at every opportunity, if Rafa had "ruined" Babel, why is he a consistent inclusion in the Dutch National team? The only reason he didn't feature in Euro 2008 is due to injury, which happened when training with Holland.
If Rafa has ruined him why has he averaged more appearances in his first 2 full seasons at Liverpool than he did at Ajax?
Desy you've been hooked by Jaimie's anti Rafa agenda, wake up.
Desy I've not used Jaimie's statistics, as they're not Jaimie's, they've been gathered by a respect website and sports establishment.
ReplyDeletePlease show me where I've said Babel is rubbish.
I've not said he's rubbish I've merely showed that Benayoun has provided a much better attacking impetus when playing in the same position which as the statistics available show, is correct.
Babel doesn't play on the right for Holland, where did you get that from? KUYT is Hollands first choice right sided attacker, check the facts for yourself. It appears it's not just Rafa that prefers Kuyt to Babel, I wonder why that is?
Babel has all the ability to succeed yet he spits his dummy at every opportunity, if Rafa had "ruined" Babel, why is he a consistent inclusion in the Dutch National team? The only reason he didn't feature in Euro 2008 is due to injury, which happened when training with Holland.
If Rafa has ruined him why has he averaged more appearances in his first 2 full seasons at Liverpool than he did at Ajax?
Desy you've been hooked by Jaimie's anti Rafa agenda, wake up.
Desy I've not used Jaimie's statistics, as they're not Jaimie's, they've been gathered by a respect website and sports establishment.
ReplyDeletePlease show me where I've said Babel is rubbish.
I've not said he's rubbish I've merely showed that Benayoun has provided a much better attacking impetus when playing in the same position which as the statistics available show, is correct.
Babel doesn't play on the right for Holland, where did you get that from? KUYT is Hollands first choice right sided attacker, check the facts for yourself. It appears it's not just Rafa that prefers Kuyt to Babel, I wonder why that is?
Babel has all the ability to succeed yet he spits his dummy at every opportunity, if Rafa had "ruined" Babel, why is he a consistent inclusion in the Dutch National team? The only reason he didn't feature in Euro 2008 is due to injury, which happened when training with Holland.
If Rafa has ruined him why has he averaged more appearances in his first 2 full seasons at Liverpool than he did at Ajax?
Desy you've been hooked by Jaimie's anti Rafa agenda, wake up.
Desy I've not used Jaimie's statistics, as they're not Jaimie's, they've been gathered by a respect website and sports establishment.
ReplyDeletePlease show me where I've said Babel is rubbish.
I've not said he's rubbish I've merely showed that Benayoun has provided a much better attacking impetus when playing in the same position which as the statistics available show, is correct.
Babel doesn't play on the right for Holland, where did you get that from? KUYT is Hollands first choice right sided attacker, check the facts for yourself. It appears it's not just Rafa that prefers Kuyt to Babel, I wonder why that is?
Babel has all the ability to succeed yet he spits his dummy at every opportunity, if Rafa had "ruined" Babel, why is he a consistent inclusion in the Dutch National team? The only reason he didn't feature in Euro 2008 is due to injury, which happened when training with Holland.
If Rafa has ruined him why has he averaged more appearances in his first 2 full seasons at Liverpool than he did at Ajax?
Desy you've been hooked by Jaimie's anti Rafa agenda, wake up.
The point is Jobo than Ryan has hardly been given the chance to show it particularly in his best positions while Kuyt is given the chance week in and week out.
ReplyDeletecan we not elaborate away from the main question or is that not in the rule book like who could play at right midfield i think everything has been said in past comments about kuyt.
ReplyDeleteimy point is i havent seen enough of babel on his favoured side to replace kuyt but as you pointed out pace, ability, and crossing ability he at least deserves a chance.
.
As I highlighted in another thread, your stats are wrong. What is your source? You've also not provided the fulll picture, and none of what you've argued changes the following about Babel.
ReplyDelete<span>- Subbed or on the bench in <span>85% of games</span>
- Subbed in <span>63% of starts</span>
- Average minutes on pitch decreasing every year:
* 07-08: Average 48 mins
* 08-09: Average 36 mins
* 09-10: Average 28 mins</span>
Ive always said and alot of my fellow liverpool supporters agree that Kuyt is NO WINGER nad really NO sTRIKER..
ReplyDeleteI Think if anything u put him on as areplacement striker when ur trying to shut things down starting from the front because everyone knows KUYT is good for 1 thing and one thing only and thats chasing and running for the 90 mins..
NOW as for BABEL i totaly agrre that he has NEVER been given a proper and FAIR chance.. We bought the younfg lad a STRIKER and RAFA refuses to use him there regardless who is avaible or not..
he in my opinion would be better suited as a striker and to gain any form u must persist with him and let him have a dozen straight matches playing in HIS FAVOURITE position.
Rafa persists and defends players like Kuyt and LUCAS all the time and thats a good thing to do for ur players but do the same for BABEL..
My stats are not wrong Jaimie, I could easly say yours are! Why are mine wrong yet yours are deemed beyond reproach! So there's one rule for you and one for everybody else? I use the same statistics you've cited yourself in a different article - SOCCERNET.
ReplyDeleteBasically Jaimie you can twist statistics to suit any argument, you do it in order to paint Benitez in a negative light and I've done it to do the opposite. I don't see how you can deem my data as "wrong" simply because it doesn't suit you!
A player is responsible for their own career, if he was worthy of a place why wouldn't he be played? Is Rafa trying to ruin his own team? Your argument is utterly ridiculous, If he was deserving of a place and playing better than Benayoun he'd play, it's that simple.
PLAYERS GET SUBBED JAIMIE, FOR TACTICAL REASONS AND PHYSICAL REASONS, STATING HE IS SUBBED SIMPLY BECAUSE RAFA IS TRYING TO "RUIN" HIM IS UTTERLY RIDICULOUS AND UN-PROVABLE!
Here's a statistic for you Jaimie:
IN TORRES FIRST SEASON HE WAS SUBBED IN 42% OF STARTS, LAST SEASON IT WAS 50%, HIS AVERAGE MINUTES ON THE PITCH HAS DECREASED EVERY YEAR, ERGO RAFA IS ATTEMPTING RUIN TORRES!
A ridiculous argument wouldn't you agree?
My stats are not wrong Jaimie, I could easly say yours are! Why are mine wrong yet yours are deemed beyond reproach! So there's one rule for you and one for everybody else? I use the same statistics you've cited yourself in a different article - SOCCERNET.
ReplyDeleteBasically Jaimie you can twist statistics to suit any argument, you do it in order to paint Benitez in a negative light and I've done it to do the opposite. I don't see how you can deem my data as "wrong" simply because it doesn't suit you!
A player is responsible for their own career, if he was worthy of a place why wouldn't he be played? Is Rafa trying to ruin his own team? Your argument is utterly ridiculous, If he was deserving of a place and playing better than Benayoun he'd play, it's that simple.
PLAYERS GET SUBBED JAIMIE, FOR TACTICAL REASONS AND PHYSICAL REASONS, STATING HE IS SUBBED SIMPLY BECAUSE RAFA IS TRYING TO "RUIN" HIM IS UTTERLY RIDICULOUS AND UN-PROVABLE!
Here's a statistic for you Jaimie:
IN TORRES FIRST SEASON HE WAS SUBBED IN 42% OF STARTS, LAST SEASON IT WAS 50%, HIS AVERAGE MINUTES ON THE PITCH HAS DECREASED EVERY YEAR, ERGO RAFA IS ATTEMPTING RUIN TORRES!
A ridiculous argument wouldn't you agree?
My stats are not wrong Jaimie, I could easly say yours are! Why are mine wrong yet yours are deemed beyond reproach! So there's one rule for you and one for everybody else? I use the same statistics you've cited yourself in a different article - SOCCERNET.
ReplyDeleteBasically Jaimie you can twist statistics to suit any argument, you do it in order to paint Benitez in a negative light and I've done it to do the opposite. I don't see how you can deem my data as "wrong" simply because it doesn't suit you!
A player is responsible for their own career, if he was worthy of a place why wouldn't he be played? Is Rafa trying to ruin his own team? Your argument is utterly ridiculous, If he was deserving of a place and playing better than Benayoun he'd play, it's that simple.
PLAYERS GET SUBBED JAIMIE, FOR TACTICAL REASONS AND PHYSICAL REASONS, STATING HE IS SUBBED SIMPLY BECAUSE RAFA IS TRYING TO "RUIN" HIM IS UTTERLY RIDICULOUS AND UN-PROVABLE!
Here's a statistic for you Jaimie:
IN TORRES FIRST SEASON HE WAS SUBBED IN 42% OF STARTS, LAST SEASON IT WAS 50%, HIS AVERAGE MINUTES ON THE PITCH HAS DECREASED EVERY YEAR, ERGO RAFA IS ATTEMPTING RUIN TORRES!
A ridiculous argument wouldn't you agree?
Your stats are wrong because:
ReplyDeletea) The figures are incorrect. Example: 2008-9 - total minutes on pitch - 1542. You have a total of 1637, which is incorrect. There are other inconsistencies like this in your other figures.
b) The Babel-benayoun comparison has no credibility here. I did not make that comparison in my original post - this issue is about how ONE player has been managed by Benitez; it is not a player-player comparison.
c) on top of that, you don't compare them fairly: For Babel, you loo at starts and sub appearances; for Benayoun, you only loo at starts, and then use that (incomplete) picture to criticise Babel. If you're going to compare two players fairly it must be like for like.
d) The Torres comparison is pointless. He is not subbed unfairly; there are valid reasons for subbing him off. With Babel, it is different. Anyway, Torres is a first-teamer when fit; Babel isn't. That stat proves nothing because there is no credible basis for highlighting it. With Babel, there is - and that basis is his repeated benching/subbing by Benitez for no good reason.
There has to be context - you can't just come up with syllogism and apply it across the board. That is not what I was doing and I've never done that. Babel's pitch time is decreasing because of mismanagement; Torres' decreases because of injuries. Two completely separate things.
In any event, no amount of twisting the facts, pointless comparisons and fallacious syllogisms changes the facts:
<span>- Subbed or on the bench in <span>85% of games</span>
- Subbed in <span>63% of starts
- Never allowed to start and finish more than two games in a row
- Almost always dropped after scoring/creating goals</span>
- Average minutes on pitch decreasing every year:
* 07-08: Average 48 mins
* 08-09: Average 36 mins
* 09-10: Average 28 mins</span>
Despite the above, Dirk Kuyt can go almost 19 hours of football without scoring a goal and still keep his place.
Benitez has mismanaged Babel. Anyone fair-minded can see that.
As per usual Jaimie you've reached the point where you can no longer provide a cohesive argument and have so resorted to deleting my comments. Bravo, how mature.
ReplyDeleteMy comment did not break the rules yet it's been deleted, why?
I posted a comment in response to Desy and you've deleted it.
You keep posting the same comment over and over. Each of your last 5 comments has been posted about 5 times each. I deleted the repeated comments and left 1 of each. I don't know whether you have a problem with your OC or you're deliberately spamming, but please just post each comment once.
ReplyDeleteMy apologies, it isn't intentional I think it's a firewall issue perhaps from my side or the website, when I'm typing it's taking a few seconds for the site to catch up, I'm running on an extremly high connection speed so I don't think it's me to be honest.
ReplyDelete