In a Q&A with fans at the end of July, Stewart Downing defiantly insisted that he would not be leaving Anfield this summer. Well, something obviously changed in the month following that statement because Downing is now a West Ham player (!), and Liverpool legend Robbie Fowler is not happy about it.
When quizzed during the Q&A about his future, Downing said:
"No, I'm not leaving. I spoke to the manager, that's been cleared up. Unless something drastically changes I'll be here"
Despite improved form last season, Downing's end product remained inconsistent, but Fowler believes the club made a mistake letting the winger leave. He told the 5 Times Podcast:
"I wanted him [Downing] to stay. Last year, when clubs came in for him, he put his hand up and said he wanted to stay and fight for his place, and in light of Suarez wanting to leave, I thought that was refreshing. I know he’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but I think he could’ve done a good job, and I would've liked him to stay".
In his barren first season - where he failed to score/create a single league goal - I criticised Downing regularly. I make no apology for that, though - an experienced England international should produce a significantly better creative return, especially when he costs £20m.
To his credit, Downing turned it around, which is a great testament to the player, and to be honest, I wasn't opposed to the idea of keeping him for this season. It's important to have experienced British players in the squad, and if nothing else, Downing has massive experience.
However...
The clear problem with Downing is that his end product is just not consistent enough. If Liverpool are to move to the next level, the team needs wide players with a more reliable creative return. Consider his stats from last season:
* 5 goals/6 assists in 45 apps(only 3 Prem goals).
* Contrast this with Coutinho: 3 goals/7 assists in 13 apps.
Downing has years of Premier League experience, yet a 20-year old with four months' experience under his belt came up with a far superior creative return. Coutinho's goal/assist rate is what Downing *should* be producing, but he doesn't seem capable of that (at Liverpool, at least)
Like Martin Skrtel, Downing is good squad player material, but it's probable that he jumped ship precisely for this reason. With the World Cup on the horizon, Downing will need regular first team football, and he'll almost certainly get that at West Ham. Plus, he'll probably be paid practically the same.
Ultimately, Liverpool will make a £14m loss on Downing, but as I illustrated last week, the actual monetary loss is significantly more:
Overall, Downing will probably be remembered as a flop. That's possibly a little harsh, but the toxic mix of his damaging debut season and £20m price tag will forever seal his fate in the minds of many fans.
Jaimie Kanwar
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
When quizzed during the Q&A about his future, Downing said:
"No, I'm not leaving. I spoke to the manager, that's been cleared up. Unless something drastically changes I'll be here"
Despite improved form last season, Downing's end product remained inconsistent, but Fowler believes the club made a mistake letting the winger leave. He told the 5 Times Podcast:
"I wanted him [Downing] to stay. Last year, when clubs came in for him, he put his hand up and said he wanted to stay and fight for his place, and in light of Suarez wanting to leave, I thought that was refreshing. I know he’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but I think he could’ve done a good job, and I would've liked him to stay".
In his barren first season - where he failed to score/create a single league goal - I criticised Downing regularly. I make no apology for that, though - an experienced England international should produce a significantly better creative return, especially when he costs £20m.
To his credit, Downing turned it around, which is a great testament to the player, and to be honest, I wasn't opposed to the idea of keeping him for this season. It's important to have experienced British players in the squad, and if nothing else, Downing has massive experience.
However...
The clear problem with Downing is that his end product is just not consistent enough. If Liverpool are to move to the next level, the team needs wide players with a more reliable creative return. Consider his stats from last season:
* 5 goals/6 assists in 45 apps(only 3 Prem goals).
* Contrast this with Coutinho: 3 goals/7 assists in 13 apps.
Downing has years of Premier League experience, yet a 20-year old with four months' experience under his belt came up with a far superior creative return. Coutinho's goal/assist rate is what Downing *should* be producing, but he doesn't seem capable of that (at Liverpool, at least)
Like Martin Skrtel, Downing is good squad player material, but it's probable that he jumped ship precisely for this reason. With the World Cup on the horizon, Downing will need regular first team football, and he'll almost certainly get that at West Ham. Plus, he'll probably be paid practically the same.
Ultimately, Liverpool will make a £14m loss on Downing, but as I illustrated last week, the actual monetary loss is significantly more:
Overall, Downing will probably be remembered as a flop. That's possibly a little harsh, but the toxic mix of his damaging debut season and £20m price tag will forever seal his fate in the minds of many fans.
Jaimie Kanwar
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
Wasn't there a loan fee for West Ham to take Carroll on loan last season?
ReplyDeleteThat's too much money to be tied up in an ageing squad player - the club were right to sell Downing and should move Skrtel on asap also.
ReplyDeleteThe club shouldn't just assume that kids are ready to take their places in the first team though. We need further first team upgrades asap if we're serious about doing anything this year.
I don't know who is handling negotiations at LFC but they need to jump in for Lamela right now before he does sign for Spurs - and do a much better job of selling the club than they have done so far!
ReplyDeleteI think you should include the savings made from not paying their contracts until the end to counterbalance the cost.
ReplyDeleteI agree 50% with Fowler on this one. Downing was the most improved player last season. People will say Hendo but, while people were willing to give Hendo a chance to improve, there was a line of fans waiting to escort Downing out of Merseyside. To his credit though he put his head down, did a job, and became a regular without any complaints and for that I was willing to give him another season. But it's a world cup year and BR knew that he wasnt going to use him and we have done very well in lightening the wage bill this window so, all in all, it was the right move for both parties. Plus it means that Aspas has a chance to stake that right flank and I have a gutt feeling that this lad is going to fire 15 goals this season! Thanks for the effort and loyalty Stewart, but in the end you were on borrowed time
ReplyDeleteHowever much downing improved at the end of the day a winger that ain't able to go past defenders to make defences turn is of no use at all thats the science of playing out wide flatters to deceive
ReplyDeleteThink it was best for both parties to part company, coz the way the current LFC team plays he's not the best option. He has pace, but his footwork isn't intricate enough. More to the point his strongest attribute is his crossing, and as we don't have a typical number 9, his assists will remain merger in this Liverpool team. So having a team that scores a lion share of there goals via headers, his productivity will increase. Thus he's less of a laughing stock, so we've done him a favour somehow.
ReplyDeleteThe perfect signing is dzsudzsac , we wanted him in january
ReplyDeletejamie you right him really highly as well
he offers width , pace and skill
him sturridge and suarez could be deadly
another alternative awey of marseille
jamie you rate him highly as well , right?
both are going to be 1/3 of willian price
ayew or dzsudzsac would be nice ,
ReplyDeleteif we want marquee signing of willian fold
i would reccomend nicolas agitan of benfica
we missed out on willian for two reasons
ReplyDeleteLondon
and very important factor villas boas
not because he is more attractive as a manager but the fact he has been tracking willian for so long made bids in three windows
and even used to exchange text messages with willian.
blaming ayre or rodgers is not valid in any case
Think we'll have to look for a cheap-ish alternative as a stop gap like Jeremy Menez.... and PRAY TO GOD that we get a top 4 spot.
ReplyDeleteThen hoping we achieve our Champ lge status, improve on the hit and miss players we currently have at out disposal... i.e. Borini, Allen and so on.
we lost on mkhitaryan becausde we were againts the cl finalist , how can you complain.
ReplyDeletea we lost on costa because he did not want to leave we should respect that , barca aernt bad negotiators becuse agger did not join , costa is loyal.
willian because of his relationship with villas boas.
we will move on .
I think we should sign this marquee guy everyone wants him.
ReplyDeleteA good player but never good enough for a top side. Typical example of a British player hyped up, priced up by the British Media and then brought crashing down to earth.
ReplyDeleteDowning was a disappointment, it's good that this mediocre talent has gone. Too few goals & too few assists, West Ham is his level, not a club seriously aiming for CL football.
ReplyDeleteFor me, Downing wasn't much of a disappointment, such were my level of expectations I guess. Would have preferred him to stay, instead of Sterling (who I would have put out on loan) but I guess financially it made sense to move him on, especially with no European football.
ReplyDeleteI don't think we had a bid accepted by his club. Only Spurs did.
ReplyDeleteThan one must also consider the possibility of bonuses given to players when they do not submit a transfer request, when leaving the club.
ReplyDeleteI'm not convinced that we are seriously aiming for CL football tbh
ReplyDeleteWe had the opportunity, dithered, and another club stepped in and got their man straightaway. Again.
ReplyDeleteI really am hoping Madrid aren't seriously going ahead with this nonsense bid for Bale though. There's just no justification for it, even for a club that gets bailed out by a (bankrupt) government!
I wonder if we made a bid and how much it was?
ReplyDeleteWe certainly weren't last season when we kicked off without a full squad (tho nobody told Suarez who fought for it like a demon). We look better equipped for it now but still short without a couple more first team players in.
ReplyDeleteDon't know if your watching the game but Sociedad's wide players are playing great tonight. Vela and Griezmann. Though with them in CL, I doubt they would be willing to sell. Regardless, I won't stop pushing for Griezmann though ;) What a goal tonight
ReplyDeleteOC I'm afraid you're right no hindsight needed, Downing was always mediocre the writing was on the wall when even Woy Hodgson despite selecting Downing picked Oxalaide-Chamberlain in the Euros!
ReplyDeleteA trickless winger aged 28 with only one memorable season, this is all part ok KK's disastrous legacy!
Yes he improved but for 20mill, we got fleeced!
Stop making excuses....If Ayre et al are constantly failing to secure our targets they shouldn't be there simple as...
ReplyDeleteIt was right to move him on...I liked him but he isn't god enough because of his mentality...I suspect he'll do quite well at West Ham though.
ReplyDeleteOr the club may well have done what Arsenal and Man United have done at times this summer.....making stingy low-ball offers. Not saying I believe it as hard to gauge without more details but certainly possible
ReplyDelete70k a week for a cover, I think not.
ReplyDelete'70k a week for a cover, I think not.'
ReplyDeleteYep, financially it didn't make sense to keep him as already implied. But in terms of footballing perspective, I'd rather have him as cover, instead of Sterling, for this season.
Gutted that Willain is preferring spuds as the media would have it! Where is our contingency plan?
ReplyDeleteWe still lack quality in the final 3rd, Hendo's chance (after being put through by Coutinho) should have been buried! As it stands top 4 seems further away than ever!
Downing was AWFUL -Can you not see that ?
ReplyDeleteIf LFC sign Willian it will be to REPLACE Suarez
ReplyDelete'As it stands top 4 seems further away than ever!' not really sure where you're getting that from....as it stands we are better off in terms of the squad then we were at the start of last season.I'd say overall we have a better squad then Arsenal now...Spuds are the ones to watch out for.But as I said as things stand....in two weeks that could all change.
ReplyDeleteCoates done his cruciate? Well he wont be going anywhere for a long time.
ReplyDeleteStupid fckn international friendlies.
Not
ReplyDeletetrying to defend him ablility as a true winger because we all know there was
little to none. Just defending his desire to work hard for the team and keep his
head down when the entire city was against him. I personally would have given
him another year just for that, but like I mentioned above, in the end it
worked out for all parties and I actually hope he does well at west ham
downing was terrible. i'm glad he has gone, a truly terrible buy on our part and we have had more than our share of them.
ReplyDeletespurs are going for broke.....quite literally. they are spending the bale transfer fee, i hope he doesn't go, that will leave levy in a very sticky place financially.
ReplyDeleteNo pointing in keeping a player who is on high wages just to keep the bench warm if he was lucky
ReplyDeletetop players want the cl or at least europa cup. we can't offer either and are only the 7th best team. so why would they opt for us? i don't want to hear about offering them a club with glorious history or potential to finish top 4. players don't care about that, i would most likely do the same if iwas in their position.
ReplyDeleteSo the excuse has changed now huh - all of a sudden, because we're not in there, now the Europa League is a massive factor! lol
ReplyDeleteKinda confuses me as to why players are leaving CL clubs to join the likes of Southampton and Sunderland though. Or why players like Suarez leave CL clubs like Ajax to join Liverpool...
You say that but Willian even said he was interested in joining so if he ends up going to Spuds it's a problem with the negotiators ie. Ayre....
ReplyDeleteLast summer was just a complete joke.
ReplyDeleteActually, most of our decisions over the last few years have been jokes, ever since that whole nonsense of bringing Hodgson into the club!
tbh I think Spurs will be fine financially anyway - all this talk about the influx of broadcasting money, and it looks like they're one of the few happy to spend it.
ReplyDeleteI just don't see how Madrid can justify the amount they're looking to throw away on Bale - especially considering that they compete in a two horse race anyway
All of a sudden even the Europa League is a decisive factor?? lol
ReplyDeleteIt really does confuse me as to how I've just seen players leave CL clubs to join Premier League clubs like Southampton and Sunderland then...
All of a sudden even the Europa League is a decisive factor?? :o
ReplyDeleteIt really does confuse me as to how I've just seen players leave CL clubs to join Premier League clubs like Southampton and Sunderland then...
I too am gutted about Willian. & Hendo's still not good enuff. We need to add a classy midfielder who can also score goals to challenge for top 4, tho we shud still do better than last season which was over before it began when we didn't get a first team together, let alone a squad, before the window.
ReplyDeleteDespite GARETH BALE's departure to MADRID.If SPURS sign WILLIAN and LAMELA they will have a squad good enough to compete for the league title never mind 4th spot.
ReplyDeleteSPURS have bought players that last seasons final league position says they shouldn't be able to attract.We haven't come close to making the same sort of statement.LIVERPOOL will be fighting with ARSENAL for 5th because the other top teams look to strong!
I'm a realist we're still short on quality! When I said we're even further away from top 4, Spurs are exactly who I'm thinking of cos they bought in all the right areas. Their fit mobile midfield will run rings around ours. Right off Arsenal? They may not be where they use to be but they get CL football.
ReplyDeleteDowning was not the winger that I was dreaming for Liverpool, but: Who is the player that can fill his void for LFC here and now? For me Downing is not a 20.000.000 pounds player, but he is at least a 10.000.000 pounds player (he is experienced and member of the english national team). We paid for him over the odds and then sell him in a way that is a bargain for West Ham!!! Why don't you buy someone better than Downing and THEN sell him? Last year we let Caroll go without buying a back up. Maybe it's the same old story... We don't learn from our mistakes...
ReplyDeleteFor once I agree with u:)
ReplyDeleteAgreed but I doubt our improvement will be enough for top 4? No
ReplyDeleteIt's between Spurs, us & Arsenal for 4th CL place, with Spurs best favoured at mo.
ReplyDeleteDowning's greatest tragedy was that he was nowhere near a 20 million player to begin with but Liverpool paid it for him and he couldn't deliver what's to be expected of a player of that price. Also, he's not the type of player BR's football needs.
ReplyDeleteI would have been happy to keep him but I also would have been happy to let him go if we had brought a better player(Willian) in to replace him first.
I think ur rite Beast.
ReplyDeleteAs I said as it stands....Arsenal get CL because us and the Spuds weren't good enough to take it off them,things are different now.As I keep saying 'as it stands' because that hammering from Villa may get Wenger to cop on and bring some players in,then obviously they'd have a better team then ours should the signings work out but that's ifs and buts.Unless the Spuds have another nose dive they'll get top 4....as it stands
ReplyDeleteYep, £2m.
ReplyDeleteAnd a bonus for WH staying in the Prem. £1m
And they paid £4m wages we would have had to pay
Total : £7m . Bad , but there have been worse.
Spurs are taking the piss with all this gazumping our transfer targets.... IT'S FEELS LIKE JEN CHANG HAS BEEN DRIP FEEDING THEM INTEL!!!!
ReplyDeleteTHE MAN HAD A HEART LIKE A CABBAGE ONE FRANKIE HOWARD
ReplyDeleteHE WOULD BEAT A MAN THEN CROSS IT AND IT WOULD NEVER BEAT THE 2ND DEFENDER BEST SHUT AM MADE UP HES GONE LIKE REINA APAIR OF PHONEYS WHO WHERE HAPPY JUST TO PICK UP THEIR WAGES .HEARD COATES IS INJURED FELL AT THE 2ND FENCE ALWAYS THOUGHT HE WAS BETTER SUITED TO THE FLAT THAN OVER THE STICKS
Disagree with Fowler. Downing is one of the most frustrating players to watch in a Liverpool shirt. Although he became better, he is still average at best. I'm glad I don't have to watch him again, I'd rather watch sterling or Jordan ibe.
ReplyDeleteFrom my memory Downing had two top seasons. His first was as a 19 year old when he was whacking the ball in the net from all angles and ranges. The second, his second season at Villa. Other than that he's been extremely disapointing.
ReplyDeleteWe missed out on yet another massive publicity stunt (cynical I know). We bid for players we have no cance and it seems no intention of signing to demonstrate big player ambition. By the close of the window we'll probably sign two players worth about 8-13mill. To be honest, it's the way I like it. These crazy fees make a mockery of a great sport. Lets get back to coaching and scouting gems.
ReplyDeleteLiverpool will plan to start talks then tell their media pals who leak this then plan to start negotiations the week after and feel confident of getting the player. They then start talks with concerned selling club maybe 3 or more weeks after original link then up steps clubs with ambition like Dortmund and Spurs who bid for the player reach an agreement at which point Liverpool learns the cost of the deal then say too much for us and the ambitious club are allowed to wrap up the deal.. Where it has taken Liverpool more than 3 weeks before learning the cost, these ambitious clubs will take less than a week to sign the player.
ReplyDeleteIts not just in this window if you remember Liverpool went for Suarez first week of January but he was confirmed last day of January transfer window.
The Aspas saga went on for weeks even after the transfer window was open. The club even took days to announce the loan signing of Cissokho something his parent club had confirmed 3 days before Liverpool finally did.
Now we are said to be planning to plan a bid for Will Hughes so I guess it means he is either confirmed on 2 September by LFC if we don't decide he is too expensive or as usual he will be a Spurs player by Friday.
Agreed with the writer, downing is but merely a squad player and imo, an average player that can be acquired easily. He will probably shine in other teams but not liverpool. Like the writer mentioned, he had years of premiership experience as compared to coutinho, so, he should be performing consistently at a higher level.....yes, it's purchasing player like him that makes liverpool an average team....and yes, i strongly feel BR has made the right decision this occasion.
ReplyDeleteWe'll get over it. Fowler will get over it and Downing will get over it too. Let's move on.
ReplyDeleteNot too bothered about losing out on Willian, the guy seems a bit over hyped to me, i wouldn't swap him for coutinho, also a lot of people are presuming all these Spurs signings are going to be big hits, iam not so sure, i know their different types of player but would be far happier if we got eriksen. As for Downing , if the lad was on relatively low wages he would have been an ok squad player but if we have serious top four aspirations he,s exactly the type of player we need to upgrade on, wether we do is another matter.
ReplyDeleteI like Downing's attitude and the way he fought back into the team but he is simply not effective in the final 3rd of the pitch. Yeah, he works hard last season and tracks back tirelessly but if Liverpool were to move to the next level, we need players to be effective.
ReplyDeleteBrendan did right to let thing to let him go. Its the best for both parties.
maybe we should sign arda turan...
ReplyDeleteare you for real ,sell the club LFC have so much more trophies than spurs will ever have in there history r future ,money talk know not the club that the player is signing for ,how can anyone conpare spurs to the mighty LFC
ReplyDeleteYOU NEED TO GET REAL ,IT IS LFC'S FAULT THEY WONT PAY THE BIG BUCK'S END OF STORY
ReplyDeletehis relationship with villas boas ,ffs did they live together ,football is about 'MONEY ' END OF STORY .
ReplyDeletenone that i would consider top players though.
ReplyDeleteBecause Spurs, unlike the mighty LFC, are actually showing ambition and unlike the mighty Brendan Rodgers, players believe in AVB's "project".
ReplyDeleteIt is getting a bit concerning that we are missing out on players that we are trying to get but tottenham have just offered more money than we have.
ReplyDeleteeither we are being cheap or they are over spending, time will tell i guess
thats what it looks like.
ReplyDeletemaybe we are taking to long with our targets or just not offering up enough cash.
Spurs have outbid us on 3 players now and id like to believe that its down to money.
I think its just down to money.
ReplyDeleteFrom what im reading on articles they offered 35m we offered 30m. So they get him.
i wouldnt mind seeing us bring in a Diego capel type player as cover (im only using him as an example as we've been linked to him).
ReplyDeleteHe'd be on a cheaper wage than 70k and suits the system a bit better
Antoine Greizeman would be a top ,top,top,top buy ,h e is young can play left wing and rodegers style
ReplyDeletesign greizeman
yep at the moment we're lighter than we were last year and a win against stoke, though rightly celebrated, tells us little, It's a long season and a few injuries will cause massive problems unless we strengthen further. But that costs money and it seems everything is geared to reducing costs
ReplyDeleteDowning - He isn't a big club player, he freezes with the pressures of a top team, this is why he has never done well at international level. For us to spend £20m on him was ludicrous (not the players fault). He will probably do well at West Ham (no disrespect here) but there is a lot less expectancy of him there, that there was at Liverpool.
ReplyDeleteWilliam - I am glad we didn't get this guy, i have been looking through pages and pages of material for the last 2 days on this guy, don't get me wrong he is a good player but not GREAT, and most certainly not worth £30m.
The £25m budget that we have (apparently) can be spent more wisely i am sure. We need a Centerback (its glaringly obvious), and i would even have a poke at a CDM, in the off chance lucas gets injured.
Or we could even take a Adem Ljajic at Fiorentina, he is a young rising talent and he is going to be an AMAZING player, can play in a whole host of Attacking positions, he would probably cost about £20m but it would be a lot better spent that William (IMO).
So far this summer we have sold Carrol 15m, Shelvey 6m, Downing 6m and Spearing 1.5m against a spend of somewhere between 20 and 23 million. That means we have netted at least 5.5 million so if we had any ambition what so ever we should never be outbid by Spurs. Especially after losing out on Mkitharyan already. It's fairly simple, if you want to buy something, you have to pay the value of it. You can feel all you want that 30 million is too much money for a football player but that's the way the world turns these days. I understand FSG don't want to be caught overspending again because the real value of players like Carrol and Downing was a lot less than what we paid but they also have to understand that some players value simply is high and correct at the same time. They seem to think that no player should cost more than 15 million which is ludicrous and short term thinking. By spending the way we do now, our chances of getting into the CL are next to none. Whereas our chances significantly increase while we do add one or two quality signings. There are no guarantees in football especially in a league where you have five teams already that can all finish inside the top four and you would be the sixth. That said, this transfer policy is so counter productive that it will see us out of the CL for years to come and see our club slipping down the table further and further until finishing eigh is actually an accomplishment for us.
ReplyDeleteThe 25 million we apparently have has not even been scratched though with less than two weeks to go. And the 5.5 million netted from sales will go straight into the pockets of our owners. Lebron needs FSG to "show him the money!"
ReplyDeleteHe would have only served as back up had he stayed, so I don't think he was really needed.
ReplyDeleteGood luck to him, he acted like a professional the whole time, and never seemed to strop.
get rid of transfer fees worldwide, clubs live in cuckoo land when they think players like Carroll are worth £35m and Bale - £80m.
ReplyDeleteEasiest thing to do is for Fifa to call time on Transfer fees. If a player signs a 4 year deal, then they have to stick it out. Perhaps players would only want a 1 or 2 year deal but then every player is in the same boat.
You would get more turnover of playing staff but that's like any business. And clubs wouldnt have to worry about who they can afford / cant afford due to transfer price.
Yes, it would inflate wages and signing on fees to even higher proportions at the top level but bankers all over the world face the same situations.
Sorry, this got a bit long.
ReplyDelete--
"They seem to think that no player should cost more than 15 million which is ludicrous and short term thinking."
You make your points well, but I wonder -- isn't it long-term thinking, putting the financial health of the club before other considerations? Whereas you want the club to be more short-term, to gamble effectively borrowed money on success today? Maybe a pedantic point.
I actually think we shouldn't underestimate the quality of our youngsters -- Wisdom and Kelly, Henderson and Alberto, Coutinho, Sterling and Ibe, and maybe also Sinclair whom I'm excited to see more of this season. These are players who, if they can be kept, will be like £10m, or £20m, or £30m signings every window for the next 4 or 5 years.
I watched PSV v Milan last night, saw the brilliant youngsters of PSV, including some players who didn't "make it" elsewhere -- such as Jeffry Bruma, who was at Spurs for years -- put on an amazing show, looking pure class, with tactics very similar to those Rodgers has developed at Anfield.
Investment in youth is the future. Investment in youth is long-term; and that's where the real buzz is in Europe these days, what all the best up-coming coaches are doing. My suspicion is that we're good enough to beat anyone, anyone at all, in the league this year. We gave them all a game last year, and we'll be better, leaner and hungrier, this time around. I'm more proud of the club right now than I have been for years, maybe since the early 00s, because what we're achieving comes from work, hard work -- not just money.
The win against Stoke tells us everything really. Plenty of chances, not enough goals. Exactly what our problem was last year. Did you know that we conceded exactly as many goals as Man United last year. They just scored some 20 more than we did. It only took one more save from Begovic and one less from MIgnolet for us to lose this match in the final minute.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion Henderson is a classy midfielder who can score goals. You say how many you want, however many you think Willian would get (40 goals in 274 appearances, mostly in the Ukranian league), and we'll see if Henderson (14 goals in 185 appearances, mostly in the Premier League) gets them!
ReplyDeleteWillian would maybe score 5-10 goals in a 40 appearance season. That's his record. Last year he got 8 in 34. His career stats are 40 in 274, mostly in Ukraine. Henderson, often playing deeper, got 7 in 44; career stat is 14 in 185. In England. Willian doesn't look like such an upgrade to me.
Henderson is a familiar part of the team. He speaks the language. He's not interested in a move away to Madrid: he's working hard to keep his place. These things are important. Willian, if Spurs do sign him, is not going to find it easy to adapt, in my opinion. Might be wrong. But he's not the kind of nailed-on world-class performer that some people have built him up to be, not by a long chalk.
Can you imagine what the wages must be? Spurs have gambled everything on this. If it doesn't work, if they don't win anything, if injuries, egos, and agents derail their season, they won't be making any "statement" signings for a while. They'll be fucked, in point of fact. I'm glad LFC haven't gone the same way, to be honest.
ReplyDeleteI have the impression from the Italian papers that AC Milan basically have Ljajic already. But I agree with your points!
ReplyDeleteAye and he will cost peanuts too. Probably around the £12m mark, as he hasn't got much time left on his contract. Although, like with Honda, media reporting that Milan are prepared to wait until his contract finishes.
ReplyDeleteI think Henderson on the left or raheem sterling is enough , we need a bit of depth , I think tom ince and William hughes would be good buys
ReplyDelete'They'll be fucked, in point of fact'
ReplyDeleteOne can hope, at least.
They have been pretty well run in terms of club wage bill, unlike us as we are still trying to play catch up after years of high wage bills. Our wage bill in 11/12 was £30m+ more than theirs. £3-f**king-0 million.
So we should still have Cole and Aqualani and Konchesky and Poulson.
ReplyDeleteAbsolute ........
Thats fine if wages go through the roof. If the NFL & NBA can work without transfer fees then why cant football?
ReplyDeleteThen that is the managers fault for buying those players. But who says we would have had any of those players because if transfer fees never existed, perhaps our ownership problems would never have become an issue in the first place.
FACT: Turan 2012/13: 5 goals 6 assists
ReplyDeleteDowning 2012/13 5 goals 8 assists
Downing sold , £6m . Turan £24m.
Still want him ?
I thought Downing showed heart last year, and I thought he would do a reasonable job this season if called upon (particularly in tight games when he would probably contribute more defensively than Aspas or Ibe). However, at £80k a week we needed a better return from someone who was likely to only make the bench for the majority of this season's matches , and see his transfer value only decline further.
ReplyDeleteIt might well be an unpopular view, but shouldn't we be giving Sterling and Ibe more first team opportunities, rather than going out and spending £30m on Willian (which doesn't look like it is going to happen now). Likewise with Kelly and Wisdom at the back. All four have impressed, and unless outstanding players are available for their positions at reasonable transfer fees (ala Coutinho) I would keep the transfer budget until Christmas and give these players the chance they deserve.
The club have also proven with Sturridge, Coutinho, and hopefully with some of their early summer signings, that they don't need to spend huge transfer funds to bring in good quality players. Unfortunately for the youth team players on the verge of breaking through, I think the club hierarchy are currently trying to spend some big money, just to prove we still have financial clout.
Whilst from the reports I read about Mkhitaryan, it sounded like he was worth a big transfer fee, I'm not convinced by the two big money signings we've subsequently been linked with - Costa and Willian.
NFL and NBA wages are ridiculous. And it doesn't stop the problem, just shifts it to another variable. TOTAL costs of getting a star player are actually HIGHER overall.
ReplyDeleteAnd our ownership problems came from the fract that they BORROWED the money to buy us and fund transfers ,then made the CLUB pay the interest...
How long have you been thinking this stuff up?
I often wonder, how is it that players(bar a few) who seemed to produce week in week out for their old clubs suddenly become a flop after joining another club. I suppose we have to accept that every club would have their mismatched players no matter how well the scouting team did their homework or perhaps, the player just could not adjust themselves to a different environment.
ReplyDeleteDowning didn't ask for the 20 mil price tag nor the inflated pay package that LFC offered him or maybe he did :-); and of course his agent would want the best possible deal for both of them. However, he seemed to have done rather well in the first game for West Ham.
Comparing Coutinho to Downing is like comparing a prodigy to a person with an above average individual, no disrespect intended.
I suppose with reference to your illustration, clubs take gambles that don't always pay off. Andy Carroll, Charlie Adam and Downing were just one too many at the same time for LFC.
Looking at how clubs like Man C and Spurs are spending, It's going be a long road for LFC this season and like every fan, I would like very much see them qualifying for CL.
First of all thank you for your well balanced and well founded response. I would be the last to argue we should take the Leeds United approach and bankrupt our club. I also agree that we have some talented young players at the club although I do believe there are less that will make the cut than a lot of fans would like to see. My main worry is, what will be left of our club once they come of age. Sterling, Ibe,, Sinclair, Rossiter, Lloyd Jones etc - if they make it at all - need anything between 3 and 5 years at least before they can take the burden of being in our first team every single week. It's fine for them to have their matches now while they can lean on the likes of Gerrard, Touré, Agger, Suarez or even Coutinho and Lucas but to become first team regulars the team needs to be able to count on them. It's very different when you're at PSV. On a European level these kids have nothing to lose because who expects PSV to beat Milan these days? On a league level, they can stand out because they are talented players and up against players who are a lot less talented than they are. Put them in the Premier League, week in, week out though and they wouldn't last till Christmas. As said, I'm all in favour of giving young players a chance. I've been preaching that ever since Houllier arrived at the club and pretty much put an end to our academy. However, there needs to be a good balance between right now, and three years from now. You can't just plan for the long term because you need to stay in control of the present. In the present we need to get back into the top four so that in the short term future we can push for the title and we can only do the former if we improve our first team with quality signings, whatever the cost may be. Within reason of course but I don't think 30 million is an unreasonable price for a player like Willian in todays market.
ReplyDeleteCharlie Adam couldn't cut it at Rangers and stood out in a Championship team playing in the Premier League. Andy Carrol came from the Championship too and had done nothing of worth except for a few goals in six months at Newcastle. Stewart Downing was always a decent player at mid table clubs like Boro and Villa but never lifted these teams higher. None of these players were ever worth what we paid for them. They were not gambles, they would have been gambles had we paid the correct price considering their pedigree. They were idiotic buys. Not only did they (the buys, not the players) stop our progress in its tracks, they're also stopping our owners from making the right decisions right now.
ReplyDeleteSPURS have gambled everything on this? How much do you think their new signings are on 250k a week!
ReplyDeleteDANIEL LEVY runs that club very well they will be on around the 100k mark that's hardly extravagant wages.
The statement is already made it's called ambition.They don't need to win things, CL qualification will justify the wage increase.
Making signings that punches above your weight is the only way we're going break into that top 4.Your glad we haven't gone the same way.I doubt you'll be saying the same thing when they have Champions League football and we finish another campaign outside the tournament where the top clubs play!
I agree with most points but Coutinho last year was just a year older than Sterling now. Over 17 these kids should be ready to step up.
ReplyDeleteCoutinho is 21 and Sterling turns 19 in december. Coutinho has been around the first teams of his club since he was 17 and became a regular starter only when he moved to us at the age of 20. So Sterling still has two years left before we should have any expectations for him to be a regular. And even if he takes a year longer it wouldn't be a complete disaster.
ReplyDeleteIf you have skill and are physically fit then your are ready to play. Brazil has been proving this year after year with their young players. Neymar is 21 but has had 30-odd appearance for Brazil. Therefore, our youngsters must be ready to play and be relied on. I think 3 to 5 years is a bit much! The reason Coutinho was ready at 20 is because he had been playing more top flight football! I think Sterling has been good when he has played and I think he must told he must improve when he makes mistakes!
ReplyDeleteTo be honest though, I am happy with BR's use of youngsters! Although I think we need more experience as bringing through kids takes time for them to achieve potential. I'd like to see them farmed out to other clubs in the premier league or top leagues.
Westham are the big winners in all this, to very good players , liverpools loss, happy days for westham f.c. Am forever blowing bubbles.
ReplyDeleteWell... for me, the premier league is more exciting than the Champions League, in all honesty, especially since there are only a few clubs right now that might actually win the thing. Champions League is nice, but I love the top flight of English football, so I'm not too bothered!
ReplyDeleteI always thought Spurs were well run until this great splurge on mostly unproven talent (think Soldado is a great buy, though). We'll see.
And as people keep saying when this comes up, just 8 months ago we signed Sturridge and Coutinho. Just 8 months. Let's keep some perspective!
BIG SAM HAVIN A MEDICAL 2 MORO AFTER SIGNIN DOWNING CARROLL AND COLE WHITE COAT THAT TIES ROUND THE BACK SIZE XXL HAS ALREADY BEEN ORDERED
ReplyDeleteDid I say Sterling should not play? No. Sterling should play but he's not ready yet to be in the team week in week out. Like I said, Coutinho was never a regular for Inter, he only became one when he came to us. Actually, that is why he came to us. Otherwise he'd be at Spurs now.
ReplyDelete£70k a week for a guy to sit on the bench (this coming season) and know that if he comes off the bench he won't make an impact, pretty much left the club with their hands tied. They had to sell. Its in his best interests too as Big Sam's style of play is much more suited to him and he'll play week in week out.
ReplyDeleteThe financial loss is a hefty one, but FSG are creaming cash from lucrative sponsorship deals left and right, whilst giving the current boss no cash to bolster the squad.
I'm not impressed with Hendo. Keeps giving the ball away. He rates himself. Very clumsy player. I dont see him as Stevie replacement at all. Stewart best position is LEFT winger and NOT inside forward that Liverpool are playing him. Hopefully he gets what he intends to achieved at WH. Let move on.
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