Ex-Liverpool defender Mark Lawrenson recently argued that Liverpool's owners would prefer a cup win over a 4th placed finish this season (!), but his former team-mate legend Alan Hansen has dismissed the importance of domestic cup competitions, and once again reiterated that Liverpool's priorities should be on a much higher level.
In his column for The Mirror, Lawro displayed a lack of ambition not usually associated with Liverpool players:
"If you had said to Liverpool’s owners at the start of the season they could have fourth place or the Carling Cup and getting into the Europa League then I think they would have taken the trophy all day long.
The idea that winning the Carling Cup represents the height of Liverpool's ambition these days is a chilling thought (!), but thankfully, clearer heads have prevailed recently.
Speaking on ESPN earlier in the week, Steve Nicol also underlined the importance of reaching the Champions League, and in his column for The Telegraph, Alan Hansen labelled domestic cups a 'bonus', and made it clear where he believed Liverpool's ambitions should lie. He said:
"Reaching the Carling Cup Final and fifth round of the FA Cup is all well and good, but it is only a bonus for a club of Liverpool's stature, who do not want to become known simply as a good cup side.
"The only thing that matters at Liverpool is playing in the Champions League and challenging for titles.
"In terms of the former, Luis Suárez is back for a potentially defining week of the club’s season.
"[Manchester] United away is a huge game for Liverpool this week, but I expect Suárez to prove his quality by making a difference".
Amen to that.
As for Suarez making a difference against United - he's now scored only once in the last twelve league games, so he's definitely due a goal, and what better place to get back on the scoresheet than Old Trafford?
Jaimie Kanwar
In his column for The Mirror, Lawro displayed a lack of ambition not usually associated with Liverpool players:
"If you had said to Liverpool’s owners at the start of the season they could have fourth place or the Carling Cup and getting into the Europa League then I think they would have taken the trophy all day long.
The idea that winning the Carling Cup represents the height of Liverpool's ambition these days is a chilling thought (!), but thankfully, clearer heads have prevailed recently.
Speaking on ESPN earlier in the week, Steve Nicol also underlined the importance of reaching the Champions League, and in his column for The Telegraph, Alan Hansen labelled domestic cups a 'bonus', and made it clear where he believed Liverpool's ambitions should lie. He said:
"Reaching the Carling Cup Final and fifth round of the FA Cup is all well and good, but it is only a bonus for a club of Liverpool's stature, who do not want to become known simply as a good cup side.
"The only thing that matters at Liverpool is playing in the Champions League and challenging for titles.
"In terms of the former, Luis Suárez is back for a potentially defining week of the club’s season.
"[Manchester] United away is a huge game for Liverpool this week, but I expect Suárez to prove his quality by making a difference".
Amen to that.
As for Suarez making a difference against United - he's now scored only once in the last twelve league games, so he's definitely due a goal, and what better place to get back on the scoresheet than Old Trafford?
Jaimie Kanwar
No champion league = less revenue and less quality proven player would join LFC
ReplyDeleteChampions League qualification is the absolute minimum for us.
ReplyDeleteCL more important but don;t know about nicol been a clear head
ReplyDeletewhy do people take any notice of manc lawenson
ReplyDeleteArsenal and Chelsea have stuttered all season,so we should have 4th place sewn up by now especially without european football,yet we havent and with games running out i think its vital we get 3 points on saturday or we will be out of the running if we dont.Im not being negative im being realistic.
ReplyDeleteLawro is clearly wrong
ReplyDeleteCarling Cup can be won in a couple of weeks, then push on for 4th to add an extra 20% to our revenues
Just to add, we haven't had to juggle european football this season too, unlike the likes of inconsistent pair of Arsenal and Chelsea. That was our advantage this season, in terms of getting into top 4, that we had no european competition distractions.
ReplyDeleteI doubt Lawrenson knows anything about what Liverpool's owners would prefer but I think a top four finish is not an unrealistic ask for their outlay
ReplyDeletestill think we will get champs league, as long as we overcome beating the so called lower teams. we have a good run of easier games coming (so to speak) 3 points at old traff would make up for the bolton game
ReplyDeleteIt is ridiculous though that everyones trying to finish in the top four and thats become more important than actually winning trophies! When a player looks back on his career which would he prefer, Medals and memories of wembley or to be able to say "we finished fourth that year"? I never thought i'd say it but I think the game would be much healthier if the champions league places went to the winners of the prem and the winners of the cups.
ReplyDeleteSo a team would have to give equal priority to all the competitions to basically spread their bets. Imagine the so-call strain on a squad, especially with no mid-season break and squad rules.
ReplyDeleteWe play too many games as it is and a club may well play their first XI even more because the other competitions mean more, would mean more fatigue than they already suffer from. Clubs already whine about how they play too many games already.
Or they could simply focus on one or two competitions, instead of spreading their bets. But there are limitations to that as well, as they could easily fail to win nothing.
Nice idea but there are drawbacks to it, though I am not necessarily against the idea
Its not a easy balancing act.
To be honest, I like the idea of the likes of Stoke, Birmingham, etc, having a better chance of winning domestic cups or at least reaching the final because the bigger clubs have bigger fishes to fry. I like to see those clubs have a taste of European football. It was fun to see Fulham (though that was through league finish but its nice to see a small club like that in Europe) and Boro have their amazing European adventures.
ReplyDeleteIn some ways, its good that bigger clubs give the domestic cups the lesser priority as it gives other clubs a chance to win a trip to Wembley and taste European football
Hoq - You are right in your assesment that the game would be healthier if the winners of the league only qualified, but the competition and the revenue it generates would then not be the same would it??? Less games, and would only last half the time it does which is why the old competition was revamped - it provides the oppurtunity for Europe's best teams to compete with each other regardless of who has won the league.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunatley you are way off the mark when it comes to a club's priorities this day in age. Owners of clubs benefit from the mass TV revenue, Sponsorship, Qualification bonuses in the CL (google CL revenues 2011 to get a taste of the numbers), Managers and players want to play in big games, beating Barca at the Nou Camp, playing against Madrid or Milan in a final - not a Championship sides at Wembley... and for you to think that it is madness!
Think of a team like Arsenal, they have for the most part played the last 14 years in the CL and played fringe / young players in the Carling Cup as it is a trophy they do not really value, this mentality is with all the top clubs - and it is a shame our way of thinking has shifted away from a big club mentality.
4th in England is not what we should aspire to, we should aspire to the top spot, but in order to get there you need to maintain being in that top four... that is something you need to understand.... finances nor top players arrive from success in domestic cups.
Players like to win trophies, sure, but if anyone is telling me that Gerrard and co would rather be playing Cardiff at Wembley than walking out at the Nou Camp against Messi and co in a Champions League Quater Final, I would not believe them. The reason the champions league was created was because clubs wanted more games like this and there was a danger that the bigger clubs might break away and create a European competition of their own. I think that the current system, where teams who are not in Europe make a bigger effort to win the Carling Cup is a good one and is good for the youngsters of the teams in Europe, who might struggle for game time otherwise.
ReplyDeleteIt was fun to see Fulham do so well, really exciting, but, unfortunately, it put us back a couple of years. Hodgson for England, I say. Let the supporters of other clubs try to justify this man's tactics when they all have a vested interest.
Everybody understands why the champions league is like it is, its a money cow. They would never change the qualification to what im suggesting as the big clubs wont let them. But sport is meant to be a meritocracy, the way it is going we will end up like American sports with no relegation.
ReplyDeleteThe strain on a squad? Yes, so that it makes clubs focus more on developing their youth teams to give more options. I can't see that being a bad thing.
ReplyDeleteEspecially with no mid-season break? Of course we need a winter break. Players and managers have been crying out for a break for years.
I'm not against the idea either but I am realistic enough to know that the money makes the decisions so it won't happen.
I think a lot more people agree with you than you might think. Although it won't happen I think its a shame they didn't expand the Europa to include 3rd and 4th places and made CL a premium competition.
ReplyDeleteCL is too watered down and that's why people start to say maybe its better to get a domestic trophy for history's sake. (somethings I don't agree with but at least understand their point)
Importance of a tournament is decided by its prize money not by fans or country.
ReplyDeleteFor example, Manchester United made total £50 million for being runner-up of Champions league final last year whereas Birmingham city got £100,000 for winning Carling Cup.
Where would you like to be ?
You could look at it this way, the carling cup is a title, its a competition win, the FA cup is a title a competition win.
ReplyDelete4th is not a title, by definition, teams in 4th should not be in the champions league, it should be the champions and maybe runners up.
The champions league is just a money making exercise now a days.
It should be a knockout competition like most cup competitions.
It seams most people would rather not have a title, but finish 4th because that gives the club more money, as a fan with kids, that money is indirectly coming out of our pockets.
The next thing will be a country in the middle east starting a comp that will offer big big money for the winner, lets see how prestiges the champions league is when that happens, and don't think it wont happen.
It seems money is the only incentive, titles don't mean the same any more unless there is a big wad attached.
It should be the clubs own choice as to how they want to focus their team, rather it being forced upon them even more than usual.
ReplyDeletePotentially 'forcing' them to look even more to foreign shores and pillage their youngsters, due to the dire grass roots problems in Britain as well as restrictive national scouting rules. FA need a kick up the back side over a lot of things.
Like I said, its a balancing act, as well as things aren't so black and white.
Of course its their own choice. Its their own choice whether or not they want to challenge for more competitions in the first place.
ReplyDeleteThere's no use in shaking your head and saying it can't be done because of "dire grass roots problems", something has to be done to solve that. It is a problem that can be fixed and should have been fixed 10 years ago. The FA do indeed need a kick up the arse.
At the rate things a going we would finish 7th placing and possibly a Carling Cup which we used to win regularly in the 80ies.
ReplyDeleteNever said or implied it can't be done. It can be fixed but its a slow, very slow process. There are no quick fixes. For a club to rely on youth, there has to be a good pool of youth to rely on in the first place and that doesn't turn up out of nowhere.
ReplyDeleteThe likes of Spain, Germany, Italy, France and even some of the Eastern European countries in recent times (they have been impressive in youth competitions, the latter), put in the groundwork many many years ago and takes many years after that for it to come to a fruition. The likes of Ozil, Reus, Goetze, Muller, Holtby, Badstuber, Hummels, Merkel, and of course Draxler (a maverick of sorts, lovely player) etc, didn't come from nowhere. There is even a astonishing number of young talented German keepers at the moment, even manc reject Zieler got capped a while back. The Germans are doing the youth thing great. The smaller Spanish put a lot of work into youth set up (such as Sevilla (Ramos, Navas, Reyes, etc)), because of necessity as they barely get any money from TV rights.
Even the difference between the no. of youth coaches between many countries and England is humongous.
The FA need to set the benchmark first, when it comes to young players, not the clubs (they follow after). That is what the respective FAs in other countries have done. German FA set the tone and the clubs followed.
That's the fact fans choose to ignore when talking about, 'let's just wait a few years for certain players to develop". The longer we're out, the harder it will become to get back in. Especially as reduced revenues lead to reduced spending power due to ffp.
ReplyDeleteIt was imperative that January was used to strengthen the squad and enhance our chances of getting back into the CL. And it was definitely a wasted opportunity, especially considering some of the players that were available. Hopefully Dalglish knows what he was doing...
The Europa League meant nothing when we were in it last year, but now all of a sudden the flipping League Cup is the be-all-and-end-all to some fans...
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that just being in the Champions League attracts better players which can then propel a team to further success, both short term and long term. I want the club to target the title every year, but 4th place should be minimum standards, especially if that is the cut off to between the Money Spinning League and midtable.
ReplyDeletePremiership teams shouldn't even be in the League Cup anyway, so success in the competition is pretty much irrelevant to me.
I'd much rather have the trophy. What the hell is great about finishing fourth? Do we really want to get stuffed by the likes of Barcelona? Let's face it - we're light years away from being a big club now. Big clubs don't have players like Downing, Henderson and Adam. We're a very ordinary team and should be grateful for a trophy. For God's sake, we can't beat Swansea and Norwich - does anyone think we'll give Barcelona a match!
ReplyDeleteLiverpool fans should wise up to the fact that the team have a decent defence and absolutely nothing else. Beating Cardiff will be a very tough assignment - if they do it then it will be the skin of their teeth. And they should be grateful because they haven't won the league for over twenty years and may very well wait another twenty before they win it again.
So the Carling would be very acceptable - easily the best they can aspire to.