Last week, Liverpool FC begrudgingly accepted Luis Suarez's 8 match ban for using 'insulting words which included a reference to Patrice Evra's colour', and many fans will be hoping that this means an end to the club's (arguably) misguided public announcements on the issue. However, Liverpool legend Mark Lawrenson has revealed that the club is still 'very unhappy', and may pursue the issue in the future.
Speaking on Irish radio station Today FM, Lawro had to stop himself from revealing too much about the club's stance on the Suarez-Evra issue, but he did reveal that depth of unhappiness inside Anfield at the moment, and hinted that once things have calmed down, Liverpool will be back to contest the FA's decision in some way. He said:
"What you'll find now with Liverpool is they'll absolutely, completely leave this [issue] for now, but don't think you've heard the last of it. I still think it will come back.
"I know that they [Liverpool] are so unhappy about many many things regarding what happened, not so much the way they handled it; they're just not happy with the way it was handled in terms of the case.
"What they have said is they're going to walk away from it; let Suarez take his ban, and sit and think about it, but I would not be surprised at some stage if this does not get revisited.
"They won't appeal it, but there are many things that I know that they're not happy about with everything that happened. They are taking the decision, but all I can say at this stage is that it may get revisited in some shape or form".
In an article prior to the announcement that Liverpool wouldn't appeal, I argued that Suarez SHOULD appeal the FA's dubious 'Findings of fact', and I really hope that comes to pass in the future.
Suarez admitted to using the word 'negro', and he should definitely be punished for that, but for the FA to find that Suarez said the following as a matter of FACT, is a disgrace:
----
FA REPORT: Section 388
"Our findings of fact which are directly relevant to the Charge are as follows"
(1) In response to Mr Evra's question "Concha de tu hermana, porque me diste in golpe" ("Fucking hell, why did you kick me"), Mr Suarez said "Porque tu eres
negro" ("Because you are black").
(2) In response to Mr Evra's comment "Habla otra vez asi, te voy a dar una porrada ("say it to me again, I'm going to punch you"), Mr Suarez said "No hablo con los negros" ("I don't speak to blacks").
(3) In response to Mr Evra's comment "Ahora te voy a dar realmente una porrada"("okay, now I think I'm going to punch you"), Mr Suarez said "Dale, negro, negro, negro" ("Okay, blackie, blackie, blackie).
----
This is what Liverpool need to appeal. This totally UNPROVEN finding of fact needs to be stricken from the record and removed from the report, and the club should take every available legal avenue available to force the FA amend their decision.
People will inevitably twist what I write so I'll just summarise for the sake of clarity:
- Suarez admitted to using the word 'negro' in reference to Patrice Evra.
- THAT is what he should've been punished for; it was proven as a fact, and I personally believe an 8-game ban is fair. The word's meaning in South America is irrelevant; this is Europe, and when that word is used in a hostile, adversarial context (which it was), then it (objectively) assumes a negative connotation, irrespective of intention.
- Liverpool should accept the ban and the fine, and accept that Suarez was wrong to refer to Evra that way. However, the club should challenge the FA's 'findings of fact' as outlined above. Those are NOT facts, and the nature of the insults means that Suarez will be labelled a racist for the rest of his career, if not his life. Worse that that, if gives the Press a legal right to refer to Suarez as a racist.
- It doesn't matter if the FA and Patrice Evra stated that Suarez is not racist; the report states that Suarez said - as a matter of fact - 'I don't talk to blacks'. That is a racist thing to say, and everyone will see it that way. Think about it - is there any way to credibly argue that saying to someone 'I don't talk to Blacks' is not racist?!
- Liverpool obviously handled the situation very badly, but that should not obscure the fact that NONE of the three racist sentences above was even close to being proven as a fact, and to find someone guilty of saying those things without evidence is a travesty of justice.
So, I hope Liverpool do revisit this issue in the future, but I also hope they focus on the right things, and drop the belligerent, defensive attitude to the whole situation.
Suarez was wrong, and he deserved to be punished; but he does NOT deserve to be stigmatised for the rest of his life on the basis of 'probability'.
Jaimie Kanwar
Speaking on Irish radio station Today FM, Lawro had to stop himself from revealing too much about the club's stance on the Suarez-Evra issue, but he did reveal that depth of unhappiness inside Anfield at the moment, and hinted that once things have calmed down, Liverpool will be back to contest the FA's decision in some way. He said:
"What you'll find now with Liverpool is they'll absolutely, completely leave this [issue] for now, but don't think you've heard the last of it. I still think it will come back.
"I know that they [Liverpool] are so unhappy about many many things regarding what happened, not so much the way they handled it; they're just not happy with the way it was handled in terms of the case.
"What they have said is they're going to walk away from it; let Suarez take his ban, and sit and think about it, but I would not be surprised at some stage if this does not get revisited.
"They won't appeal it, but there are many things that I know that they're not happy about with everything that happened. They are taking the decision, but all I can say at this stage is that it may get revisited in some shape or form".
In an article prior to the announcement that Liverpool wouldn't appeal, I argued that Suarez SHOULD appeal the FA's dubious 'Findings of fact', and I really hope that comes to pass in the future.
Suarez admitted to using the word 'negro', and he should definitely be punished for that, but for the FA to find that Suarez said the following as a matter of FACT, is a disgrace:
----
FA REPORT: Section 388
"Our findings of fact which are directly relevant to the Charge are as follows"
(1) In response to Mr Evra's question "Concha de tu hermana, porque me diste in golpe" ("Fucking hell, why did you kick me"), Mr Suarez said "Porque tu eres
negro" ("Because you are black").
(2) In response to Mr Evra's comment "Habla otra vez asi, te voy a dar una porrada ("say it to me again, I'm going to punch you"), Mr Suarez said "No hablo con los negros" ("I don't speak to blacks").
(3) In response to Mr Evra's comment "Ahora te voy a dar realmente una porrada"("okay, now I think I'm going to punch you"), Mr Suarez said "Dale, negro, negro, negro" ("Okay, blackie, blackie, blackie).
----
This is what Liverpool need to appeal. This totally UNPROVEN finding of fact needs to be stricken from the record and removed from the report, and the club should take every available legal avenue available to force the FA amend their decision.
People will inevitably twist what I write so I'll just summarise for the sake of clarity:
- Suarez admitted to using the word 'negro' in reference to Patrice Evra.
- THAT is what he should've been punished for; it was proven as a fact, and I personally believe an 8-game ban is fair. The word's meaning in South America is irrelevant; this is Europe, and when that word is used in a hostile, adversarial context (which it was), then it (objectively) assumes a negative connotation, irrespective of intention.
- Liverpool should accept the ban and the fine, and accept that Suarez was wrong to refer to Evra that way. However, the club should challenge the FA's 'findings of fact' as outlined above. Those are NOT facts, and the nature of the insults means that Suarez will be labelled a racist for the rest of his career, if not his life. Worse that that, if gives the Press a legal right to refer to Suarez as a racist.
- It doesn't matter if the FA and Patrice Evra stated that Suarez is not racist; the report states that Suarez said - as a matter of fact - 'I don't talk to blacks'. That is a racist thing to say, and everyone will see it that way. Think about it - is there any way to credibly argue that saying to someone 'I don't talk to Blacks' is not racist?!
- Liverpool obviously handled the situation very badly, but that should not obscure the fact that NONE of the three racist sentences above was even close to being proven as a fact, and to find someone guilty of saying those things without evidence is a travesty of justice.
So, I hope Liverpool do revisit this issue in the future, but I also hope they focus on the right things, and drop the belligerent, defensive attitude to the whole situation.
Suarez was wrong, and he deserved to be punished; but he does NOT deserve to be stigmatised for the rest of his life on the basis of 'probability'.
Jaimie Kanwar
Some important arguments there Jamie, well done for analysing the issue in such depth
ReplyDeleteThe issue should definitely be revisited when tempers calm. It's like the FA sat down and listened to Evra then said, "Whelp, that's good enough for us." Having "experts" from Manchester who, from what I can tell, don't know anything about Uruguay doesn't help either. It's like they didn't even care about APPEARING biased. I hope John W. Henry & Co. get their lawyers after them. The FA won't ever change unless they're hit in the pocketbook.
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame that LFC has become a club that condon's racism. The treatement former LFC player Collymore recieved in twitter was a disgrace. No one is to blame other than Dalglish whose behaviour has been a disgrace. I am surprised the FA have not taken action against LFC for accusing them of being corrupt or bias. Another bottle job by the FA I guess.
ReplyDeleteLFC have basically said that its OK to be racist as seen in the match vs Oldham. And I am sure that your racists fans will be booing the victim of racism Evra.
No class at Klu Klux Klanfield
There is no point in being incredibly stupid, if you don't show it at all times. What is wrong with these people. just let it go and stop dragging the name of the club through the mud.
ReplyDeleteHA HA KLU KLUX KLANFIELD...NOT MASSIVELY ORIGINAL BUT IN A WAY QUITE FUNNY.for a sad little no-mark who cant spell condone or put togther a decent argument....well done little manc or whatever other rock you live under
ReplyDeleteCan someone give me a list of black players signed by Dalglish?
ReplyDeleteCan someone also give me a list of black players in the current LFC squad?
Hashim you are a massive bellend
ReplyDeleteFirst of all coming from Asia I see players cursing all the time if the N word is forbidden so should the F world or any of that sort.
ReplyDeletewhy dont you give yourself the day off from being a misinformed clown?Read before you offer a opinion. You only make yourself look more dumb than you probably are
ReplyDeleteif I could be arsed yes.. as could anyone.but you don't know what you are on about and I wouldn't dignify you with an argument
ReplyDeleteOne of his first big signings in his first tenure was John Barnes - and that was when the fanbase genuinely was racist.
ReplyDeleteIt was a bold step, and paid off hansomely with Barnes because one of our best ever players and doing much to break down the racism attitude.
disagree. if they were speaking spanish it is very important to stand on the meaning of "negro".
ReplyDeleteHashim, you couldn't make the point of this article more clearly. If you have read the report you most certainly have not understood it.
ReplyDeleteThe panel believed Evra despite the factual and logical contradictions in his statements. They even indicate where they thought he lied and dismissed it as not being materially significant, but this is the Gotcha moment I'm afraid and they brushed it off because they wanted a Guilty verdict.
The panel believed Suarez lied because he said he tried to defuse the situation by telling Evra that he was not untouchable after having threatened to kick Suarez. The panel state that he couldn't possibly be trying to calm the situation down by doing this, he wasn't, he didn't claim to be doing so and its not what was written in his statement. I can defuse a combative situation by reminding someone that they can get into trouble with the authorities without calming anyone down, one would hope they would calm down once the situation was defused. Please read paragraphs 245 through 252 to see exactly what complete tosh this panel was claiming to be an argument FOR the FA's case.
The reality is that there were only two verdicts, both of which were catastrophic for football and for the kick racism out of football campaign. A third decision - a NO decision which would have been uncomfortable but at least palatable. No one iota of Evra's statement is corroborated my actual evidence.
Go read this
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-His-Skin-Barnes-Phenomenon/dp/0954013417
You are so ridiculously misinformed and misguided
The only thing i disagree with is the word "negro", Spanish conversation then we should have the Spanish meaning. I think the biggest point is, no one can prove either way if Suarez meant it in a racist way or a calm the situation down way and in my eyes he should not get banned for it.
ReplyDeleteAlso i don't understand the hatred towards Evra. In French the word means the same as when we use the "n" word, so i understand why he is offended, but maybe the best response was for the FA to sit with both of them and explain
ReplyDeleteShould have appealed, if they feel like this.
ReplyDeleteEither let things lie or appealed straight away.
Liverpool have made a right mess of this situation
ReplyDeleteThe thing is there are different types of Spanish-based languages/cultures.
ReplyDeleteeven within Spain, there are so many different types. Look at Catalan and Castillian (?)
ReplyDeleteSo what are you implying that Kenny Dalglish is racist?! You lot are a bunch of lost twats, why do you come on here to continue the same sh1t.
ReplyDeleteDon't you think that Kenny and the rest of the so called 'racist' people around the club know that Liverpool fc is a team which is supported by millions all around the world ... let me elaborate further for you ... this means: Africans, Asians, Europeans, Middle Eastern and many more and are by people who are of another colour other than white!!
Very good article Jaimie!
Speaking of John Barnes, here's an interview with him on Sky.
ReplyDeletehttp://t.co/wlfgoeK9
Enough is enough. Let's get over it and move on. Who are we signing? Higuan or Messi, or who?
ReplyDeleteYeah i know he misunderstood, but to him is thought he was being called something worse than what it turns out to be. He still thought/felt that
ReplyDeleteAgree with your comment 100%. Verbal abuse, whether racially motivated or otherwise, is totally unacceptable.
ReplyDeleteHow often do you see a player go to collect the ball for a throw in and receive verbal abuse or various hand signals from the so called fans in the front rows? It is picked up in the match control room on CCTV but absolutely no action is ever taken.
It was fair enough that Suarez was punished for his finger gesture, but was it ok for the Fulham fans to give him dogs abuse?
You did not understand my friend, the panel believed Evra and Kuyt and Comolli. Not one persons word against another which people keep claiming, its three peoples against one, and two of the three are LFC employees, why do you keep ignoring this point. Evra, Kuyt and Comolli all said that Suarez responded to the initial question of why did he kick Evra with "because you are black"
ReplyDeleteIt wasnt until after that he tried to change this to "why, black? which doesnt even make sense. Do you not get the idea of why his testimony was deemed unreliable.
The hatred towards Evra IMHO is that one could easily draw the conclusion that he heard Suarez say negro and thought Bingo. He would only need confirmation from the footage and Gotcha! But he didn't get confirmation so who knows what possessed him after that. One thing is certain is that he had the tapes when he made his statement and I still don't understand that no-one seems surprised that none of what he claimed they said can be corroborated.
ReplyDeleteIm a United fan and I dont think for one minute that Kenny Dalglish or LFC are racist, not a bit of it. But they have put the interests of the club before a very sensitive issue in backing Suarez to the hilt on this one. This makes them look like they are condoning what Suarez done to the point were they have tried to water it down into a cultural misunderstanding, inspite of the testimony of three people who claimed to have heard Suarez say "because you are black"
ReplyDeleteYou are almost on a par with the moron who shouted out at the game on Friday. The implication of your question is quite clear and I should not give it the decency of a reply.Suffice it to say in the recent reserve game v Fulham there were 5 black players on the pitch and one on the bench. Out of the top of my head I can think of: David Amoo( on Loan ), Andre Wisdom, Nathan Eccleston, Michael Ngoo, Toni Silva, Mendy, Baio. (that's seven). Since you do not follow Liverpool it has obviously escaped your attention that the club's two high profile schoolboy signings have both been black, but the colour of their skin should be totally irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteIn the list above I forgot the black pearl( am I allows to say that?), Raheem Stirling.
You really are an ignorant......
Jaimie, please get a grip of Hashim, his comments are libellous and could get your web page into trouble.
ReplyDeleteIf you are the jnhaydon that posted your analysis on the DT comments page then I am surprised that you seem to be accepting the extract above as factual. In your previous analysis you dismantled the panel's findings. Have you had a change of heart?
ReplyDeletewhich 3 people are these? not one person except suarez and evra had a sigle thing. FACT!
ReplyDeletehis first signing was john Barnes, you idiot!
ReplyDeleteWhat a way to get fishes to bite
ReplyDeleteevra said nothing of the kind until SAF interfered - who is really to blame for all this?
ReplyDeleteHave you seen the video of evra shouting M***** F****** N***** in a rant on French TV? This is the guy who couldn't bear to say the word to the ref because it was too upsetting.
ReplyDeletei think you should read the report again and get your timings right
ReplyDeleteyes and Ferguson is solely to blame for the world poverty too
ReplyDeletetribal paranoia is hilarious
i am totally fed up with all this crap surrounding Liverpool and racism it is about time some reality kicked in. does anyone think racism can be stopped by fines or bans, racism is something you are born with with or you become one due to to beliefs etc. Anyone who has played football will know you give abuse to an opponent for anything that distinguishes him from you colour, where you are from, nose size, hair colour etc etc. I was born in toxteth my dads best mate was black his son was my best friend so I am no racist, which by definition means the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. So by calling someone a black b or c how is this racist similarly i have been called a scouse b where does racism start and finish, for me this is just abuse that goes on on a football pitch it is human nature to use something different on an opponent it could be colour, size, anything, how many times has Kenny or Ferguson been call a Scottish b? is that racist ? If anything it is people like Evra who will create racists because he has used a situation to gain an advantage, if you do not believe me take a look at the video where Evra uses the n word against a Chelsea player, that is a true racist as he believes he is a superior black person because of where he was born. Come on people get a grip this is effin boring now
ReplyDeleteDalglish signed John Barnes at a time when racism was still more prevailent in english football. South americans are far more accepting of one another as mixed race is common place over there. Your 3 against one argument is also nonsense. Comolli and Kuyt's evidence was the recollection of what Suarez had sad. They are not Spanish speakers so the use of just one word Suarez had said at the time changes the whole meaning of the sentence. Suarez did not change his story, Kuyt and Comolli incorrectly recollected the sentence in Spanish that Suarez had used. Read what any linguistic expert has said on the case and they all support Suarez. The FA and Evra also said they do not believe Suarez is a racist!
ReplyDeleteexcellent article Jamie. I agree with you in that Liverpool need to revisit this at some point in time. The FA having declared those statements as fact is ludicrous and this needs to be rectified.
ReplyDeleteYou've really bitten....you're a lfc ste you idiot. p*ss off to the manc sh*te site with the rest of the non mancunians! See Ref and FA on your sde again yesterday v Man City....Surprise!!
ReplyDeletebrilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeletedick head !!
ReplyDeleteWe judge footballer on his skills and performances. People tend to forget those rather talking about something that will put fire ablaze and pour it more with fuel. Take off the heat and let's support in togetherness to put the fire down. What is done is done, it's not d time to point out who is right who is wrong. Suarez made a mistake once, it's still a yellow card...not a red card..give the man a chance to realize what should not be said on a foreign land..which not an offense in his culture...as misinterpretation on different languages and understanding may occur..life goes on..
ReplyDeleteHow convenient for the FA to use a South American as their villain for their war on racism. This whole episode is a complete joke. Prediction. In two years Suarez will be a redeemed hero in the EPL, and Evra will be out of the league and in the papers for beating his wife or some other such bad behavior. The FA is a joke.
ReplyDeletehow much charity work has he done then?
ReplyDeleteI forgot to remind you that LFC opened an ACADEMY on the Island of St. Vincent. David Fairclough was involved in recruiting the coaching staff, all from the West Indies themselves. Your ignorance knows no bounds.
ReplyDeleteWell said. The sheer ignorance of posters on here simply beggars believe. One of the reasons why LFC and the fans are so aggrieved is that nobody else heard the comments. Name the Anfield three!
ReplyDeleteWell said Hashim. You're opinions are the opinions of most fair minded people in this country. its unfortunate that everyone linked with liverpool has not been able to look beyond their personal bias on this issue. If liverpool had disciplined the player themselves then this issue would have been over the day after it started and liverpool would have lost no face whatsoever. this situation should never have been about liverpools reputation, it should have just been an issue of disciplining a player new to the country who stepped out of line and simply needs re-educating.
ReplyDeleteI am really getting fed up now. Nobody else heard the comment on the pitch apart from Evra. The rest by Comolli and Kuyt is what Suarez told them. That is hearsay or don't you know the difference.
ReplyDeleteracist
ReplyDeletethen dont go to football matches or play football it as easy as that or leave the country and go to a country which does not have racisim bet you wont do that will you Hashim
ReplyDeleteIm well aware of the timings, Evra heard him first and Kuyt and Comolli confirmed that Suarez told them that he said it, FACT. Comolli even spelt ot out to the referee.
ReplyDeleteHow long have you been in this country Hashim ? cant be long by that remark if you look we have many ethnic players signed by Kenny suarez being one of them and a lot have not made the first team yet so dont try and make our club and manager out as racists but I would not be surprised if there are not more ethnic players brought to the club under Kenny so I think your on looser you looser
ReplyDeleteNo were did I say that Kuyt and Comolli heard the original comment. Suarez told them after the event had taken place, As Jaimie has pointed out in a previous article. Did all three misunderstand him?
ReplyDeleteSo what did your club do when catona attacked a supporter did they hang him out to dry no they went out of there way to save him from a being banned from football which he should of been and by the way I have just been on another site were you were not so supportive of liverpool and Kenny so bstyougoback to your manc site
ReplyDeleteyou do know that that video is very famous. It is evra celebrating beating chelsea in the 2004 cl semi final, after a number of chelsea players saying that they would win the semi against monaco easily. He also tells frank lampard to suck his pussy. I don't know if you should make that much of it to be honest.
ReplyDeleteNo-one has ever denied evra swears a lot. but if you can't tell the difference between patrice evra using the N word, and luis suarez being someones colour into an argument on the pitch then god love you.
This is about Suarezs reputation,he has been treated worse than anyone ever in the world.The FA has basically sided with a proven liar and trouble maker.I dont think LFC can sue Evra or the FA as they have to abide by the FAs rules which the FA have but they can work with the FA to alter the rules which basically mean a black person will be believed whatever lies he says as the black person will then accuse the FA of racism if they dont win.I think Evra should be given a lie test but oh no this will no doubt cause all the minority groups to say hes being victimised.
ReplyDeleteThe only question that needs to be answered is, was the investigation fair? and the answer is no.
ReplyDeleteI think Suarez should be punished but so should evra 1. for starting the argument, and 2. for also insulting suarez about his South American origins.
The FA has shown bias buy not imposing sanctions on both players. Suarez should get the 8 match ban, but Evra should have got a 2 to 3 match ban for his part in starting the argument in the first place.
Also everybody is harping on about LFC giving backing to Suarez, not one person is showing disgust at chelsea supporting John Terry who is about to go to criminal court over what he is supposed to have said.
a lot of people need to check there moral compass and not just base there bias on what team they support.
What rubbish, Evra makes a complaint about Suarez, and Suarez confirms it to Kuyt and Comolli, how is that hearsay, its straight from the horses mouth. The accused and the accuser in total agreement. Can you not see that the accusation was established by Suarez's testimony to Kuyt and Comolli, the two principle witnesses, Evra and Suarez agree. Forget the rest of the stuff, hes banged to rights on this point alone.
ReplyDeleteI think it was mark lawrenson who said LFC will revisit the issue jamie just jumps on the band wagon as usual .
ReplyDeleteVery convenient indeed. John Terry on the other hand is being handled by the police, will be judged under different standards and the FA will have a way out. I can see their decision now, "there is no enough evidence..."
ReplyDeleteDid Luis Suarez confirm to Kuyt and Comolli that he said "because you are black" or not?. Its that simple. You might argue that they misunderstood him, but you certainly cant deny that Kuyt and Comolli after speaking to Suarez, confirmed what Evra said.
ReplyDeleteExcept by Kuyt and Comolli, Suarez told them what he said.
ReplyDeleteRacism is against the law, and football is not above the law, you don't get it do you, racism is not acceptable no matter how minor the incident is
ReplyDeleteTo the best of my memory United suspended Cantona for the rest of the season before the FA extended the ban into the next season. They done the right thing first, then stood by thier man.
ReplyDeleteIt's loser, you racist loser
ReplyDeleteWhat site was that then, Ive no idea what your talking about mate.
ReplyDeleteEvra has not been punished because no-one has made a complaint against him
ReplyDeleteI cannot find what insulting words did Suarez
ReplyDeleteuse. He did refer to Evra's skin color but both the FA and Evra acknowledged that he is not racist and there was no racist intent. How could then the word "black" be considered an insult. Can someone explain? I would totally agree with the decision if Suarez had been found racist.
My take is that Evra misunderstood when Suarez said "Porque negro?" (in response to "don't touch me sudaca") and then it was too late to back down, the fact that the man has no integrity made matters worse. Remember, he betrayed his adoptive country and declared that it hurts him just to hear the word
"ni****" let alone say it.
I agree Joe. The big problem that I foresee with regard to the Terry case is that the FA will hide behind the fact that it has become a police matter. If they successfully prosecute him, he will face a maximum fine of £2,500 and the FA will say 'It has been handled by the police who are the highest authority and the matter is closed'. If he's found not guilty, the FA will say that 'if the police couldn't prosecute due to lack of evidence, then how can we?' and either way Terry walks away unscathed. No ban, a fine that amounts to a few hours wages and no further action. I truly hope I'm wrong, but you just know something like this is going to happen instead of the ban and fine that he should get and which should be greater than Suarez's as the evidence has been seen by all.
ReplyDeleteThis is a good take;
ReplyDeletehttp://newsframes.wordpress.com/2012/01/06/media-on-racism-churnalism/
i do not believe suarez is racist.1. his grandad is black and so is his teammate glen johnson so you are telling me he does not speak to them 2.it was evras word alone.i mean look at the facts evra should be to because he called suarez a south american. and to top it all off its not offence from where hes from.
ReplyDeletei was told as a kid sticks and stones may break my bones but name calling will never hurt me so why does rooney get a 2 match for a.b.h. kicking someone and luis get 8 match for name calling. and before any one bites back i know a lot about both because i was bullied all of my school life.
ReplyDeleteLiverpool provided all the support to the police and someone has been arrested and will be banned for life from Anfield.
ReplyDeleteI agree LFC have handled the situation badly howver they way the FA "committee" arrived at their decision was shocking. Lets not forget that Suarez admitted using the word he could have denied everything and I doubt they would have the ability to ban him. the issue is that both Evra and the FA said thay they dont consider Suarez to be a racist, a FACT that the press and bloggers seem to allude to.
HE USED THE N WORD - IN HIS EVIDENCE HE SAID IT WAS A WORD HE COULD NOT BRING HIMSELF TO SAY BECAUSE IT UPSET HIM SO MUCH! LIAR ! LIAR ! LIAR ! HOW MANY TIMES MUST IT BE SAID FOR SOMEONE TO UNDERSTAND HE IS A LIAR !
ReplyDeleteA guy from Newcastle has been charged with racial abuse of Collymore so its debatable if hes a liverpool fan to which you refer to.
ReplyDeleteIn Spanish, a language neither of them speak
ReplyDeleteWhat is it about Suarez, sister?
ReplyDeleteEither Liverpool or Luis Suarez should file a private prosecution against Evra. If Suarez was to go to the Police and say "This man has accused me of what amounts to a criminal offence and a subsequent kangaroo court has found me guilty of this without any concrete evidence, purely on the word of the accuser. I want it investigated on the grounds that he is publicly defaming my character in the highest possible profile, the results of which could be disastrous for my career" the police would be obliged to investigate and if this went to court, Evra could be the one found guilty of defamation of character through reckless and unfounded accusation. They would then have to analyse the FA process carried out against Suarez and consider whether the FA have behaved appropriately in their actions on the accusations that the court will have found unproven. It would no doubt turn in to a sue / counter sue / counter counter sue case which could go on for years, but if nothing else, it would at least give the whole sordid matter a fair hearing in an open and unbiased court.
ReplyDeletePlease someone explain? Each country has its culture, the way the talk, the words they use... For example the word KAKA, has different meaning in Brazilian and in France... Evra in South Africa create something and France out From world cup during first group stage, as captain of his country he should have done his best to help everyone agree to win the World Cup (The cup that many players dream of...)
ReplyDeleteNow concerning Suarez... I dont understand how The FA found Suarez guilty ... No camera, Even Evra said that it was not racist words... Suarez said that he used a word that he used in his country and which isnt racist and Suarez has mixed Origins Grandfather a blackman... Oops I said black man, Am I racist?
Why is saying that someone is Racist, so If Someone say to ROONEY that he is a WHITEMAN.. this also should be racist...
non spanish speakers would not understand anything
ReplyDeleteNo, the FA and the press have made the mess. Liverpool have stood by their player, as any good club should when one of their own is being subjected to unfair treatment by another player, another club or the games' governing body.
ReplyDeleteIf Evra and Fergie hadn't used the N word then they most probably would have!
ReplyDeleteHell no he won't do that. Because he knows this is a non starter in most other countries!!
ReplyDeleteAre you a racist?
ReplyDeleteRacist.
ReplyDeletewho give a rats arse what colour the players are. Are you saying he should have signed his fair share of players because they are black?? what about the white ones that were better?? should they be left on the sidelines. This is England, after all and the majority of the players at that time were white.I only want to sign good players regardless of colour.
ReplyDeleteEvra speaks Italian he played in Italy,I can't understand how he turned negro into N word when negro in Italian is nero!
ReplyDeleteAre you working for FARE and Powar?
ReplyDeletelawrenson needs to keep his big mercenary mouth shut, just how would revealing the so called bent transfer benefit lfc ? it could only hinder them but it could help marks bank balance.
ReplyDeleteEvra apparently told his own players that Suarez called him 'negro' but then advised Ferguson and the ref that Suarez had said 'n----r'.
ReplyDeleteEither Evra decided to change the word, or the manager or ref decided to change the word for him. Which is the more likely?
Secondly, Lawrenson may have a point in saying that legally Liverpool and Suarez have time on their side, as they could pursue a case of liable against the FA and/or Evra.In the case of Liverpool, taking the FA to court is impossible due to the rules regarding being a member of the Premier League, but Suarez has every right to do so and should he go abroad as a consequence of the FA's actions he might very well sue them. Good luck to him if he does.
Are you working for 'My club can do no wrong' organisation?
ReplyDeleteLiverpool acted like a hot-headed poster on a forum, instead of a world famous professional club.
ReplyDeletethose three people only heard what Suarez told them he said.
ReplyDelete"Why shouldn't I touch you? because you are black".
That sounds racist.
"Why shouldnt I touch you? Because you are black?"
Does not sound racist. It is a question, and a fair one at that given he was talking to a man who likes to pull the race card when he is in a corner.
This comment was said in South American Spanish.
This is different to European Spanish.
Neither Kuyt, Commoli or KK are fluent in Suarez's home tongue.
So as this info was third handed it can not be seen as a fact.
But that is not the point of this article.
If I said you are a racist because I read you wrote that you don't like blacks, does that make you a racist, Allen??
If your friends defend you in this does that make them racist too??
Pity the ref didn't put Evra straight after the game that he had said Black on the field and never mentioned the N word.
ReplyDeleteHe told Kuyt in Dutch. He told Comolli (who can speak and write Spanish) in Spanish
ReplyDeleteexactly!!
ReplyDeleteI went to school with a lot of black friends and any time they were acting up and got told off they would say, "you only telling me off cos I'm black". Next thing you know the teacher got a rep for being racist and all the white teachers were scared to say anything to those kids for fear of being racist. What Evra, Man U and the FA have done is start a small snowball on a very big snowy hill and it will come back and chew their arses off.
Now mark my words!!
Im not denying Evras part in the initial exchanges, he admitted that himself. Its Suarez's response were the water gets muddied. Did he, or did he not say "you are black" Evra says he did, Kuyt said he did and Comolli did. Even Kenny said that he did. Im not convinced that this was lost in translation as Suarez and some of the posters on here are saying. Thats the bottom line, and as Jaimie said in his Article, chances are it wasnt.
ReplyDeleteYou are a fool of the 1st order, watch this video and tell me you can believe Evra,
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2082524/Patrice-Evra-video-using-n-word-YoutTube.html
racist
ReplyDeleteracist
ReplyDeleteracist
ReplyDeleteracist
ReplyDeleteFair enough, your entitled to your opinion. But you cant say for definate that they did not understand him properly, in fact the chances of all three misunderstanding him are quite low I would guess. I have a feeling that we could argue all night and not change our opinion. It should have been sorted out a long a long time ago and not allowed to get to the stage it did.
ReplyDeleteidiots like you are getting boring now. who cares, we have plenty of black players at the club. its just coinsedence simple as that.
ReplyDeletewat about wat evra said??
ReplyDeletethe case always favoured united and evra, regardless how good liverpools case should have been.
ReplyDeleteno we cant sign them just ask hashim lol lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeletewat a joke that boy is.
least we wont lose any players to the african nations cup...................seriously
If I say I dont like blacks that would make me a racist. Lets not forget, there are mild racists and there are extreme racists. To know how severe a racist I was you would need to know a bit more about me.
ReplyDeleteBut if I did make a statement like that and my friends defended, it doesnt make them racists, but they would be misguided and acting out of loyalty, not integtity.
Suarez is a great player, and its understandable that Liverpool sought to protect their own interests. But in this case, I think they were wrong and should have handled things differently. In the long run it would have been better for them and the player. Just my opinion.
All you United fan on here get lost, so what if we don't like black players it's not a crime is it?
ReplyDeletesomeone else in the real world....................................few!!
ReplyDeletewat???? but he admitted abusing suarez!!
ReplyDeletebit like going to a police station and admitting a crime in some way dont you think.
one plays for liverpool , one plays for united, simples
ReplyDeleteso many languages here - no chance of anybody misunderstanding then - you are english i suppose - if i spoke to you in scouse you wouldn't have a clue what i was saying - IN ALL PROBABILITY
ReplyDeleteHave you seen last years arrest stats for racism at a football match? LFC did not have one arrest, MUFC had 2, Villa 4, Aresenal had 1 as well. But hey, lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story.
ReplyDeletethis is not a racist remark, as i have good friends different colours so to speak. but in my life i have to say and no offense meant at all.
ReplyDeletesome black people have a problem with there colour more than anyone else has a problem with it. and think this is the case with evra, there is just to many storys about him regarding his manor or lack of it.
little man with a big chip on his shoulder, sadly worsened by playing in a man utd shirt. he obviously thinks hes untouchable
i use the f-word at work sometimes....................naughty me................lock me up..............................sue me...................lol
ReplyDeleteif only the world was perfect and we all believed in the same god etc etc
I wasn't convinced you were sane until you hit caps lock. but now I know. Thank you for reassuring me
ReplyDeletedoesn't count - he's allowed
ReplyDeleteLiverpool should have a new employee induction process to ensure that no one ever says anything that could be interpreted as racist or as a racial slur
ReplyDeleteSimple
Then none of this ever happens
Hopefully both clubs agree to rest Evra for Anfield game and Suarez for OT game, all it takes is one nutter in the crowd to say something to him and we are goosed
heard enough on this subject now. please just drop it jamie. we dont need to keep going over it, and i strongly disagree with you that it was handled badly by liverpool. would you rather we left one of our own to the wolves(fuckin media) suarez done what is done every week(winding up opponents) to him its the same as calling someone ginger. is it his fault were a bunch of sensitive politically correct gurny fuckers in this country. what about what evra said to suarez? just that suarez didnt go crying about it or evra would be in trouble also. blatter was right, these things should be sorted out by the players after. either by handshake or fair dig. now theres an idea for sky, ppv tunnel fights........
ReplyDeleteAnd you would know the fan base was racist? It was a different era with different values including huge union support and a massive anti nuclear movement. There was also a great push against apartheid in South Africa and there was an increasing black/ coloured attendance at Anfield.
ReplyDeleteIf the fanbase had been racist there wouldn't have been an increasing racial mix. Jokes were made against all groups then and this was normal at the time.
What is and is not acceptable changes over the years. I remember that being called black was a no no in the 70's the correct description being coloured.
I dare say that there will be many more changes to come that will lead to people saying that our current fans are racist.
The only thing you can learn from history is that it repeats itself.
So why is what suarez said any worse than what evera said? all abuse hurts! I would be more upset if someone insulted my family! no abuse is acceptable! so they should have both have been given the same punishment otherwise they are saying suarez's feelings don't matter!
ReplyDeleteSuarez didn't say he didn't like blacks and as he has friends who are black its obvious he does like them!
ReplyDeleteand why don't you see what all the uruguay team say the word suarez used mean in south america! even a lawyer on sky sports said that he would never of got found guilty in a court of law so why do the FA think they can conduct there hearings under a diferent code of conduct?
I'm never going into Cafe Nero again then
ReplyDelete@Fair Play For Everyone, Im not saying that Suarez said that he does not like blacks, I was responding to Imaguest's hypothetcal scenario that he suggested.
ReplyDelete@Fair Play To Everyone, I dont decide what is more abusive than something else, society does. But your correct, Evra did say something that Suarez could have been offended by. If he did then maybe he should have been charged. But two wrongs dont make a right and all that would change is that instead of one person being offensive, you would have two. What Suarez done was still wrong.
ReplyDeleteSuarez spoke to Kuyt in Dutch, and Kuyt was clear in what he thought Suarez said.
ReplyDeleteIt has nothing to do with Manchester United, it has everything to do with Patrice Evra and Luis Suarez. Evra made the complaint, not Manchester United. What United done was offer support to one of their players who they believe was abused. The commission found sufficient grounds to bring a guilty verdict, so Evra was vindicated. I will concede that not all of the alledged accusations were proven beyond resonable doubt, so you might have a legitimate beef. But the opening remarks of the confrontation seem to be accurate given the testimony of Evra, Kuyt, Comolli and Dalglish.
ReplyDeleteNot sure what your point is. Why don't you have a look at the Liverpool reserve squad. Their are plenty of black players there. Dalglish gave Sama and Wisdom first-team opportunities in pre-season and Sterling is on the cusp of a call-up. Infact, with Glen johnson included, I could fill a team sheet of black players currently at the club. Stop jumping on the racism bandwagon, only the other day a black politician was racist about white people but she was let off scot free. Sick to death of this racism issue.
ReplyDeleteLook the other way ,,, not racist but lunge two footed into the issue w/o due diligence or inteligence in handling the situation. what needed a quick apology and promise to look into the matter descended into farce from day 1. Talk abt insensitivity. Poor reflection on Uruguay and fenway sports too if those media reports are in any way accurate. what steps will LFC do to mend fences now? NOT racist but dont care abt racism either ...
ReplyDeletewill someone use any word in a kindly manner in the heat of the moment? honestly has any one done that ,,, if yes, then LS deserves some doubt but then its not only abt what he said, also what he didnt say when the whole thing blew up. no sense of reconciliatory tone or regret for any offence he "might" have done
ReplyDeleteguess we're lucky we're not paid millions nor a world wide audience to scrutinize our actions and kids emulating our every move :) else we wld have been locked up, yes?
ReplyDeleteI would just like to say that i do not understand spanish, so i do not know what Suarez meant. I can also understand Evra's point as well but let me just say that the F.A an Evra say that they don't believe Suarez to be a racist what a load of shit, if you charge someone on racism then at some point you are saying he is racist and then you have all so put it out to the public who we all know will have there own opinion on the whole story. But now the F.A is calling for calm in the match against Man U (F.A Cup), well good luck with that, there are some fans who will say and do what they like but that does not mean the whole agree.
ReplyDeleteI am considered black in my home Australia, now i think this should have been handled between the parties involved only. The public do not need to know everything.
EVERYONE misunderstood, the ref, Evara, Kuyt, Comilli and KD? EXCEPT Suarez ... sorry, that doesnt sound right either ... :) BTW, you do know you can lose your entire life savings based on probability in a court right?
ReplyDeleteCivil and criminal standards are different ... i.e. you can not prove a case for criminal conviction but still lose the case in civil court.
ReplyDeletelike comment. just cant agree that what each of us feel is anyway relevant to what Evra claims he felt. As long as word is 1) racist in nature, 2) he felt abused, 3) LS admits it, what other verdict can there be? Just like 2 footed challenges, its irrelevant whether the other player is caught or ball 1st, fact is other player cld be badly injured and career finished. For this reason its not advisable to go in on your back unless as a player you accept the possibility of a red card and a ban (or more). do the time if you do the crime. know this whole topic has become very subjective becos of the perception its about the 2 rival clubs. It shdnt be. This is UK. And it shd be abt human dignity. We dont know what LS intended by whatever words, but set against acrimonious backdrop, it cant have been the sweet nothing some folks claim they wife call em.
ReplyDeleteIt is not often that I agree with you, Jaimie, but you are spot on about the Commission's "findings of fact". Not only did they not provide any evidence to support these facts, but video evidence that could have supported Suarez's version of what happened were studiously ignored. Why were body language experts and lip readers not asked to look at the footage of what happened? Specific gestures were mentioned in the report (the shrug, the "quacking motion") but were given short shrift.
ReplyDeleteThe Commission claims that "It was not possible to try and lip-read what Mr Suarez said largely because his face was obscured at the crucial moments". Take a look at this clip from 00:25 onwards - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCGG2_hNB4A. I find it hard to believe that an experienced lip reader would not be able to read what was said, or more importantly, not said by Suarez at this point.
Evra's account of events at the goalmouth was:
94. Mr Evra said that after Mr Suarez said "I don't speak to blacks", he (Mr Evra) said "Ahora te voy a dar realmente una porrada", which means "Okay, now I think I'm going to punch you". To this he says that Mr Suarez replied "Dale, negro...negro...negro". At the time, Mr Evra understood this to mean "Okay, nigger, nigger, nigger". He now says it means "Okay, blackie, blackie, blackie". The expert witnesses stated that the phrase "Dale, negro" can be understood as "Bring it on, blackie" or "do it, blackie" or "go ahead, blackie" (see paragraph 184 below).
95. Mr Evra said that as Mr Suarez was speaking he reached out to touch Mr Evra's arm, gesturing at his skin. Mr Evra said that Mr Suarez was drawing attention to the colour of Mr Evra's skin. This gesture is clearly shown on the video footage, just as Mr Kuyt comes between them. It seemed to us that Mr Suarez reached out and pinched Mr Evra's left forearm. In cross-examination, Mr Evra said that at the time he did not realise that Mr Suarez had pinched his arm. He was more focussed on his lips and what he was saying. Mr Evra only realised that Mr Suarez had touched his arm in this way when he saw the video footage later.
For Evra to have been telling the truth, the word that you can see being uttered by Suarez as he was about to reach out to touch Evra's arm could only have been "negro". Nothing else will fit Evra's story. Why did the Commission at least not ask a lip reader to see if that word Suarez spoke could possibly have been "negro"? Wouldn't it have bolstered their case no end if it was "negro"?
Why don't we get all cases regarding racism down at your house. Since you know all the good 'experts'. Can you suggest some language experts you would have liked to handle this issue ??
ReplyDeleteTrue that. Actually. Liverpool football club has realized that the more they pursure this, the more they get into trouble. Remember how it started ?? With everyone blaming and pointing fingers at Evra. Nobody cared about how his credibility was affected. Now a lot of people have egg on their faces and rightly so. He was proven right when he said that Suarez used the N-Word. As far as labelling Suarez a racist, I woudn't personally do that but on what basis is it NOT proven ?? What do you want ?? Recordings ??
ReplyDeleteYou donot realize the irony here. you are also giving YOUR opinion. None of what you said is FACT. The panel right or wrong has presented its findings and the opinion will be divided of course. You make statements like 'not even an iota of evra's statements is corroborated by actual evidence'. Well Evra said Suarez used the N Word. Suarez admitted. In law, that is evidence - Suarez's statment. Secondly Suarez pinched Evra's skin. That is porven and evidence. The panel found that it could not have been done to diffuse the situation. That was their finding based on the EVIDENCE they had in front of them. So all of this does prove that there WAS evidence and probably more than an iota of truth to what Evra said. You are entitled to your opinion but refrain from making sweeping statements because it does not prove your point.
ReplyDeleteAllenagnew. Forget it.Pool fans would to anything to prove their opinion correct. They are discrediting their own players and sporting directors. I am waiting for the day Suarez will get up and leave them. It will be really funny. Liverpool football club dosn't believe they have a case but the fans won't stop it. Half of them would not even know what to do if presented in an actual court apart from picking their nose and looking here and there. But on the forums - they know everything. Even the extent to which comolli and Kuyt understand spanish, what 'actually' happened on the pitch, what happens in the FA, how to interpret a report etc. They know it all.
ReplyDeleteWhen did Evra and Fergie use the NWord ??
ReplyDeleteThe report states that Suarez told Coates and Maxi what had happened. For some reason they were not interviewed. Comolli is not a native Spanish speaker nor is Suarez a native Dutch speaker.
ReplyDeleteHashim,
ReplyDeleteSince John Barnes Kenny Dalglish has never signed another Black Player..FACT.
That goes for when he managed other clubs
None of whom were signed by Dalglish.
ReplyDeleteSo you don't know what your talking about either.
Do your homework before spouting off
But he did sign Nobby Solano for Newcastle ... nobody would say he was exactly white
ReplyDeleteTo Barry: The matter was settled on a "probability." The FA without proper evidence could have gone either way. Having seen Evra's outburst on Canal TV I would not trust his version. The FA had to make a decision they are wanting to show they are tough on such matters, so Suarez was the scapegoat. Barry, do not make silly remarks before you leave for your school in Manchester, wait till school is out. I wish the FA could prove how they arrived at a probably verdict. Noticeably, the CPS did not want to bring proccedings as clearly no evidence to use, unlike the JT case. I am pleased that LFC are wanting to discuss the matter with the FA. Suarez has been victimised to prove the FAs detemination to deter racist remarks. LFC, Find out what probably means.
ReplyDeleteHashim, deal with facts and do not make things up as you go along.
ReplyDeleteYour biased remarks would earn you ten out of ten. You almost suggest LFC and their supporters are the only team and supporters that have problems. When you leave school perhaps you can visit a few grounds. Try not to be slanderous when you post it can lead to trouble. You are the "disgrace" based on your biased comments
Allenagnew have a few days off. I can not follow your theories they are flawed. You and Hashim are a couple of no ideas. I support LFC speaking to the FA who simply could not support both Suarez and kick out Racism. Guilty as soon as Evra reported it to Taggart. Impossible to support no Racism and Suarez even if he was whiter than white.
ReplyDeleteAre you for real?????????
ReplyDeleteWhen they went to the ref after the game!
You need to do your homework, pal. Dalglish had a consultative role at the Academy when some of the players referred to above were signed. Do you reall think that he would not be involved in the signing of the two schoolboys? Daniel Comolli might do a lot of the work in the background because Dalglish's obvious priority is the first team. Is that not what Comolli's roll is all about?
ReplyDeleteIf you cared to watch LFC TV you would know how often he attends Academy and Reserve games. He takes a great interest in all of the young players, no matter what theifr backgrounds.
FA REPORT
ReplyDelete128. Sir Alex said that as he was speaking to David De Gea, Mr Evra approached him. He said
"Boss, Suarez called me a nigger."
129. Sir Alex and Mr Evra went to the referee's room. Sir Alex went in first, followed by Mr Evra. Sir Alex told Mr Marriner that they had a complaint to make. Sir Alex told him "Evra has been called a nigger by one of the Liverpool players."
For someone who likes to comment on this should read the report!
Also look at the way it is said in the SINGULAR and not the PLURAL so that would back Suarez up that he said NEGRO once but I'm not a language expert!!!!
Evra should of used the word from the pitch and not change the word and you wonder why Liverpool questioned his creditability?
Read the report how it started!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteThen comment on what Evra said!!!!!!!!!
Suarez did not say what Evra reported FACT!
"I don't talk to blacks". So, presumably, Suarez has not spoken to Glen Johnson since he arrived at the club. Must have been very awkward at training and in the dressing room before/after the match. The goal celebrations must have been a figment of my imagination.
ReplyDeleteHi Jaimie, did you manage to get some good information from the link I posted to the article regarding this debate? I posted it on the "Will Suarez still be an LFC player poll"- seems like a lot of the points are very similar. The article points out pretty much what you have pointed out and I hope this gives it more exposure- the more people understand about the case the less the FA has to hide behind.
ReplyDeleteI really do hope LFC fight this, this has brandished Suarez a racist for the remainder of his life.
Teams should not be judged if they are racist or not by our many players of colour are included in the squad. Liverpool is an English team funnily enough based in England where the majority of nationals are white through the usual ancestral traits, therefore the majority of the squad would naturally be found to be white. Especially with the homegrown rules coming this will be found more and more often.
ReplyDelete"Evra" and "Credibility" don't fit together in the same sentence! If it was any player other than Evra, it would never have got to this!
ReplyDeleteBREAKING NEWS: Patrice Evra has admitted that the ‘N’ word Suarez used ten times was “nutmeg”
ReplyDelete‘Prevaricate’ means that somebody gives false and incriminating information.Funny enough, an anagram of prevaricate = Patrice Evra…
When Suarez kicked Evra and he went down with his knee swelling up, Suarez turned around and said “… WOW, look at that knee grow…”, and this Mr Independent Commission is where the confusion began…
Hashim go back to bed...there's school tomorrow...
ReplyDeleteSuarez is black! Signed by Dalglish! Great Irony!
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't put a lot of stock in what Lawro says, we get a lot of his opinion over here in Ireland and when he speaks on behalf of LFC, it tends to be more his opinion than anything. Bit of a waffler, maybe more on the fringes of club affairs than he'd like to think...
ReplyDeletejamie and voland,
ReplyDeletewow, you people are clearly messed up. anti-racism, it appears, is the new racism. using the word negro deserves an 8 match ban? the other day i called a chinese man chinese. using your logic and sense of morality, i should be suspended from my job or fired. this reminds me of what the spanish did during the inquisition. how is this different from the people who persecuted innocent people during the salem witchhunt or how the depraved muslims of the al-qaeda organization rationalize logical thought?
this is messed up. if you think using the word negro is racist, then you are racist. and frankly, that is what the FA is, a racist organization. it's akin to a liar calling everyone else a liar except himself. anti-racism (ie, lack of tolerance) is the new racism.
matter settled on probability means we have gone back to the dark ages, when a man's word against another was good enough. hey, i saw you the other day making what looked like a jerk off motion in front of some children (when in fact you were pumping your football ...remember the ad?), but i am going to accuse you anyway because you made me look bad on the football field and i want revenge.
ReplyDeletebased on the balance of probability -- i saw you masterbating in front of children (and the camera caught that action from your back) -- and i speak better than you, i guess you wouldn't mind being labeled as a sex offender. that's all we need, balance of probabilities.
that's your kind of justice? if you buy that, i sure hope at some point of your life nobody accuses you of rape, sodomy or theft in a muslim country because they will either hang or stone you to death. but then again, you people all belong together.
No, it is you who is 'messed up' - you fail to accept that using the word 'negro' in an objectively hostile context is wrong, and sends the wrong message to impressionable fans. let me ask you something: would it be acceptable for 10 year old kids to start calling other players 'negro' on the school football pitch now? That's what you seem to be suggesting here.
ReplyDelete"negro" is the Spanish word for black; i think the point he is trying to make is should the word "black" be also stricken from the dictionary just in case it pisses of someone of that colour?
ReplyDeleteWhat annoys me is that people are confusing the word negro with the word ni**er and they are vastly different things
He comfirmed he said negro in thr dressing room not n****r!
ReplyDelete272. It seemed to us that Mr Evra's understanding of the Spanish word "negro" was influenced by his knowledge of Italian. In his interview with the FA on 20 October, Mr Evra said that he thought "nero" meant "black", whereas "negro" meant "nigger". This was what he thought from his knowledge of Italian, and he went away to check the position in Spanish. However, he did say in that same interview that it was still unacceptable to be told that you had been kicked because you were black. The expert witnesses told us that the Spanish word "negro" cannot simply be translated as "nigger".
ReplyDeleteHaven't you read the report?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osSV2crMY4U&feature=player_embedded
ReplyDeleteEvra explaining what was said.
Which is still racist in the context he used it. Your club's feeble statement that he didn't know what he was saying, because basically, he is an ignorant foreigner, beggers belief. He broke the rules, and in fact broke the law, and has admitted as much in his own "apology". There's seems to be alot of ignorance to go round at Anfield
ReplyDeletePeople don't have black skin... even the darkest skin. The
ReplyDeletefact is skin colour is no different from hair colour, just a genetic trait.
It's pathetic that people still use the abstract of "race" based on
genetic, are people with blonde hair a race? id question someone if they
addressed me as "black" or "negro". Don't get me wrong
there is a very distinct line between calling someone a name, and hating an entire
group of people based upon a skin colour, belief, nationality. I'd happy accept
anti racism movements to be deemed to be lacking in tolerance because discrimination
based on such abstracts shouldn't be tolerated.
Back to the original thread and I do agree Jamie there needs to be an enquiry
into the investigation, internally as LFC's handling of the affair was
terrible, and externally and not just in reference to the Suarez case, but in
comparison to how the FA handled John Terry... because in reality if they
punish Suarez how can the continue to let a man who openly abused a player
(there is clear evidence) be captain of the national side.
He ADMITTED calling him the NWord. And he was an UNRELIABLE Witness. Had this been the dark ages he woudn't even be allowed to put forward his case, let alone get lawyers who understand ENGLISH. The fact that he used those words does is not probable, its a FACT. the context in which he said it is debatable but he used those words. Had he been proven racist i am sure his ban woudn't have been just 8 games. You may not want to agree, thats your problem mate. Get better lawyers, you're club made a mess of all of this. And believe me nothings gonna happen. Your club is a farce and the way this issue was handled by the club which represents you was nothing short of disgusting. If you donot understand this, god help you.
ReplyDeletethat is what i am suggesting. political correctness or fear of racial words is racism. i dont think a 10 year old would have a problem calling a negroid child negro. only a racist would fear that and blow it all out of proportion. if you called a man from china, chinaman, he would probably say "what?" a caucasian doesnt mind being called white, so why can't a black man be called black (or negro in spanish)?
ReplyDeletenword means ni-gger. negro is not the nword. heck, negroid is not an nword.
ReplyDeleteabsolutely, you got it. the ni**er word is derisory and is a racist word. negro just means black. what evra said in the video, calling the chelski players n**er is racist, even if he is a negro himself. just because you are of the same race does not mean you cannot be racist to your own race.
ReplyDeletehe didnt use the Nword, he admitted to calling him negro. if you can't tell the difference, you should go back to pre-school and get and education before posting brainless comments such as these.
ReplyDeleteOkay, so what about when someone calls another person 'Negro' in anger, or in a derisory way? I suppose that's acceptable?
ReplyDeletein reply to hashim ... muslim
ReplyDeleteYou or no one else can define what offends someone else. It offends me the multitudes of people that use the abstract of defining people with brown skin and curly hair as "Black People". People are people regardless of skin colour/origin, and defining people in such a manor potentially leads to stereo typing and racism. I am not saying people can't use the word black either, as Jamie correctly points out context is key.
ReplyDeleteSo you would let him off because his insult towards Evra can't be true because Johnson is in his team?
ReplyDeleteAnd is saying 'i kicked you because you are black' a lot better than using the N word? Really? If you admit saying that, or someone else admits it for you, you deserve every game of the 8 game ban.
it is a response to a response isn't it? basically one person riling the other person for a bad response and like all contact sports, if you can take it back, don't dish it out.
ReplyDeleteso if somebody tells you to go and abuse yourself sexually, he should be able to accept any kind of crap that comes back his way, including negro or white trash, or banana, or tamil or terrorist or whatever it is.
however, the broader issue here is not the word negro. i had the misfortune of chancing upon your blog and read some of the poorly position logic from you and some other responses and i feel truly sorry for you and others if you think that a response of negro is racist and unacceptable and deserves damnation but **** (i will not repeat what evra said to suarez) is fine and acceptable.
if you think it is ok to be a giant foulmouth and you can sprout verbal diarrhea and trash on someone else as long as you do not utter the other person's race in anger or confrontation, then you are morally bankrupt and also practice a double standard.
i wonder why you ban vulgar language on this blog as well as racial slurs? you should lift the ban on vulgarity because you are essentially saying it is fine.
Kaiwa, I suggest you go and speak with your priest, rabbi, monk or spiritual leader because you clearly have lost your sense of what is right and what is wrong.
ReplyDeleteEither that or in trying to make a point you have crossed a moral line.
learn how to spell before posting ... where, not were; you're or you are not your ... even my 5 year old understands this.
ReplyDeleteYou're kind of putting words into Jamie's mouth here so to speak.
ReplyDeleteI fail to see the "poorly positioned logic" here, when all Jamie is saying is saying is Suarez insulted Evra, which in a given context can be racist. Not once have I seen Jamie deem Evra's behaviour acceptable, or state it to be acceptable to be a "giant foulmouth", nor condem Suarez to damnation.
From my point of view it seems you and many others have a broader problem in regards to race and racism, with regards to so called Political Correctness and hypocrytical treatment of different people, and rightly so, but this isn't what the article is about, all Jamie has done is point out in responce to you that in his point of view "Negro" can be percived as a racist remark in a given context, and highlight how the FA's report outlined unprovent points as a part of the charge, which should be removed. Which I agree with.