It's no secret that Rafa Benitez got a substantial pay-off when he left Liverpool in June 2010, but how much did he actually receive? The answer lies in the club's most recent financial accounts, and it appears to be a lot higher than what many people may have thought.
Figures bandied about by the press tend to put Benitez's pay-off in the £3-£4m range, but the actual figure paid by Liverpool in 'termination payments' for 'former employees...in relation to the change in coaching staff in the close season' was:
£7.75m
You can view the actual evidence from the accounts below (click to enlarge):
NOTE: The 2009 figure of £4.3m - the bulk of which constituted Rick Parry's pay off - has no relation to the 2010 figure. (Parry's pay off is referenced in the 2009 accounts)
The latest published accounts run up to the 31 July 2010 - Benitez left in June 2010, and he was followed to Inter Milan by first team coach Mauricio Pellegrino, goalkeeping coach Xavi Valero, and fitness coach Paco de Miguel. (Eduardo Macia did not leave until December 2010, which is after the current accounts were compiled).
I can't see pay-offs for Pellegrino, Valero and De Miguel - comparatively minor figures at Anfield - being particularly huge; in fact, I would be surprised if their combined pay-off was over £1.5m. The likelihood is that the bulk of the 7.75m went to Benitez, with a very real possibility that he could've received around £6m. (thought I concede the figure could be lower than that)
Whatever Benitez's personal figure, the fact is Liverpool had to pay £7.75m to end the Spaniard's reign, which is a hell of a lot of money, and is probably a lot more than fans (including myself) had realised.
Was Benitez worth it? Did he deserve such a large amount? I'm sure fans could argue both ways. It's no secret that I was not a fan of Benitez's management style (!) but despite that, I don't personally begrudge him the payout.
Plus, as LFC_Kop_Voice - one of the site's Twitter followers - rightly pointed out: "a lot of that payoff went back into the local community, and in rememberence and support for justice for the 96".
This is not an attack on Benitez; like most of my financial articles, it's just an attempt to bring clarity to a specific LFC issue.
Jaimie Kanwar
Figures bandied about by the press tend to put Benitez's pay-off in the £3-£4m range, but the actual figure paid by Liverpool in 'termination payments' for 'former employees...in relation to the change in coaching staff in the close season' was:
£7.75m
You can view the actual evidence from the accounts below (click to enlarge):
NOTE: The 2009 figure of £4.3m - the bulk of which constituted Rick Parry's pay off - has no relation to the 2010 figure. (Parry's pay off is referenced in the 2009 accounts)
The latest published accounts run up to the 31 July 2010 - Benitez left in June 2010, and he was followed to Inter Milan by first team coach Mauricio Pellegrino, goalkeeping coach Xavi Valero, and fitness coach Paco de Miguel. (Eduardo Macia did not leave until December 2010, which is after the current accounts were compiled).
I can't see pay-offs for Pellegrino, Valero and De Miguel - comparatively minor figures at Anfield - being particularly huge; in fact, I would be surprised if their combined pay-off was over £1.5m. The likelihood is that the bulk of the 7.75m went to Benitez, with a very real possibility that he could've received around £6m. (thought I concede the figure could be lower than that)
Whatever Benitez's personal figure, the fact is Liverpool had to pay £7.75m to end the Spaniard's reign, which is a hell of a lot of money, and is probably a lot more than fans (including myself) had realised.
Was Benitez worth it? Did he deserve such a large amount? I'm sure fans could argue both ways. It's no secret that I was not a fan of Benitez's management style (!) but despite that, I don't personally begrudge him the payout.
Plus, as LFC_Kop_Voice - one of the site's Twitter followers - rightly pointed out: "a lot of that payoff went back into the local community, and in rememberence and support for justice for the 96".
This is not an attack on Benitez; like most of my financial articles, it's just an attempt to bring clarity to a specific LFC issue.
Jaimie Kanwar
Get over Benitez Jamie!!
ReplyDeleteThe amount of money splashed by the club on pay-outs is newsworthy, and I know there are plenty of fans who would like to know this info. It's nothing to do with Benitez per se - I post lots of financial related stuff.
ReplyDeleteYes he's worth every penny !!
ReplyDeletein todays market that would equate to the price of an average squad player. who would probably pick half that in wages every year. in the world of mad football spending its peanuts.
ReplyDeleteThe question shouldn't be 'was benitez worth it?' the question should be 'were the board truly acting in the best interests of liverpool football club when sacking benitez?'. Because roy hodgson, whichever way you look at it has never ever reached the standards in his career of rafael benitez! So we paid 7.75 or whatever to sack benitez, another 2 (as bandied around the media) for hodgson. So it was actually closer to ten million to sack and replace benitez but then closer to 20 million to sack benitez and find a suitable replacement.
ReplyDeleteWhy o why o why would you waste your time writing this up?????.......nobody cares!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteTime for you to look forward and not back now
There is also plenty of fans that know that he gave away much of to charity but you don't care about that, do you Jamie? =-O
ReplyDeleteYawn!!! Rafa beating again...jeeez!!!! This stuffs old!
ReplyDeleteIt's irrelevant to me if 'nobody cares'. I write about stuff that interests me.
ReplyDeleteWould you pay £7.75M form the European Cup and its revenue?
ReplyDeleteI would. Good luck Rafa.....
Always appreciate your reports on financial related stuff as you call it.
ReplyDeleteHave to say though, 6m is exactly the number that I recall from media reports back then. So while it is still a significant number you are probably not right that it is more than initially thought.
Why don't I care about that, exactly? I'm just trying to establish the facts about Benitez's payout; I haven't criticised it.
ReplyDeleteI haven't found any reports stating the figure as 6m. Could you post some links if you can find some? Cheers.
ReplyDeleteJamie, if this is to clarify the accounts then why the comment "was he worth it". Over the years you have repeatedly use the site to attack and undermine Rafa and tell us how great H&G were for the club.
ReplyDeleteRafa was entitled to recieve possibly 3 times the payout that he took and he has spent a fair portion of that money supporting local charities. He acted with a quiet dignity and you would do well to follow his example.
I 've noticed that you have yet to ask the same question about Roy's payout but then again you know the answer already - Roy wasn't worth a couple of hundred quid let alone the couple of million he took us for.
no secret it was reported in Daily Post and Echo at the time he received 6m. it was also reported that a lot of local charities benefited to the tune of 3m ish including the rhys jones fund, a wirral cottage hospital and the Marina Dalglish appeal.
ReplyDeleteMr and Mrs Benitez are decent peoplewho deserve the fans respect a bit like Hodgson really
Jamie so what!
ReplyDeleteWorth every penny for what he has done to the academy
ReplyDelete<span><span>If you're going to publish articles on finance you're going to have to get a lot more forensic if you want to be taken seriously. You make claims about LFC finances based on conjecture and assumption, and without publishing anything to validate your ideas I'm afraid you might as well be writing about how many grains of sand you think there is in the bunkers at Ainsdale. How many other staff left during that period and what were they paid, for instance? </span></span><span>What was the money spent on in 2009? Is the difference between the amounts spent in 2009 and 2010 significant? Have you got anything of note that may strengthen your case? And does any of it make any difference now that we're headed by a shrewd bunch of hard headed billionnaires who clearly have faith in the manager?</span>
ReplyDeleteThe 'was he worth it' comment is a question - it's designed to get people t give their views.
ReplyDeleteI haven't asked the question about Hodgson's payout because I don't have factual proof of what he got, and won't have until next year. This is the reason why I have not highlighted Benitez's payout until a year after he left - I was waiting for factual evidence, otherwise, what's the point?
If you could, please post links to those post/echo articles. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you that Benitez is a decent man - I've never said otherwise. I always criticised his management style and decision; I never attacked him personally, unlike the rabid, baying fans who repeatedly attacked and ridiculed Hodgson in personal manner.
I'd take him back any day. Would do better in the market with the money spent since January than Kenny/Comolli. Carroll for 35 mill? Having a laugh!
ReplyDeleteThere is no explanation in your post about the figure for the year before in the extract from the accounts which was indeed about 3.5m less than that year. What is the normal Level for termination payments in an average year? Maybe the reported figure was about right at 3.5 to end benitez reign. There was more than 4m Termination payments the year before benitez was terminated. What is the norm when players as well as managers come and go?
ReplyDeleteNo, you need to get your facts straight. Nothing you have said is relevant here. The claims I have made are based on irrefutable fact, not conjecture or assumption. The accounts do not lie, or are you suggesting that the figures posted by the club are somehow inaccurate?
ReplyDeleteThe accounts specifically state the exact amount paid out in termination costs -there is no ambiguuity. And, if you read my article correctly, I state that it's the amount of money to end Benitez's reign, i.e. the total cost including all backroom staff, not just for benitez himself.
What was spent in 2009 is totally and utterly irrelevant here. You're clearly trying to muddy the waters here, but the ironic thing is the only person throwing around conjecture and assumption here is you, not me.
This moeny is peanuts, compared to all the cash beeing spent on overpriced players with the new owners. I just pray that they really have this money, and that it will not hurt the club long-term.
ReplyDeleteWith respect, you do understand how the accounts work. The club's accounts run from July 31 to July 31 each year:
ReplyDeleteJuly 31 2009 - July 31 2010
July 31 2008 - July 31 2009
etc
The latest accounts are for all payments from July 2009 until July 2010. Additionally, the snippet I posted explicitly states that the figure is for termination payments related to the change of coaching staff in the close season. it is unambiguous.
Last years termination payment of 4.3m covers Rick Parry's payout, and the amount he received is explicitly stated in last years accounts.
As such, 2008-9 figure is totally irrelevent to the figures in the latest accounts; there is no correlation and no pattern - it all depends on who leaves between July and July.
In the last year, the only major departures were Benitez and his backroom staff.
Arklow - With respect, you are barking up the wrong tree. The club's accounts run from July 31 to July 31 each year:
ReplyDelete<span>
1 Aug 2009 - July 31 2010
1 Aug 2008 - July 31 2009
etc
The latest accounts are for all payments from July 2009 until July 2010. Additionally, the snippet I posted explicitly states that the figure is for termination payments related to the change of coaching staff in the close season. it is unambiguous.
Last years termination payment of 4.3m covers Rick Parry's payout, and the amount he received is explicitly stated in last years accounts.
As such, 2008-9 figure is totally irrelevent to the figures in the latest accounts; there is no correlation and no pattern - it all depends on who leaves between July and July.
In the last year, the only major departures were Benitez and his backroom staff.
</span>
I agree with you re the overspending but I'd rather keep King Kenny than take RB back!
ReplyDeleteGet over it. We are doing well. You can stop moaning. Aquillani has gone and you thought he was the bees knees. You are wrong again. Who cares about Rafa's pay off? You don't mention that Suarez is probably now worth £40m and we paid £22m do you!
ReplyDeleteI thought Aquilani was 'the bees knees'?! News to me! When he signed I posted an article titled: Great - Rafa Benitez is about to waste another 20m of LFC's money
ReplyDeleteI don't mention Suarez's alleged rise in valuation because that is just pointless speculation, and unverifiable.
Jaimie, I thought you left when I did. There's no need for you anymore. We both know it was an "epic swindle". Thanks for sticking up for me when I needed you. ;)
ReplyDeleteMy pleasure. And thanks for all the cash!
ReplyDeleteIts history - who cares anymore? Why not write about something that is happening right now? Just a suggestion. As you said, you are completely entitled to write this, and I'm completely entitled in saying that its dull.
ReplyDeleteIf you find it dull then why bother posting? if you don't like this site then go elsewhere! I write about stuff that interests me, and if people don't like it, that's fine by me. I don't write to please people or get brownie points.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the point of article? Just newsworthy ? If we read this, we can prevent paying more for manager or player termination fee?
ReplyDeleteSure, here we go:
ReplyDelete1) http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_6189535,00.html
2) http://www.guillembalague.com/blog_desp.php?titulo=Rafa%20Benitez%20agrees%20%A36%20million%20severance%20package&id=456
3) http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/04062010/58/premier-league-benitez-leaves-liverpool.html
4) http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=792423&sec=england&cc=5739
5) http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/premier-league/liverpool-manager-rafa-benitez-leaves-club-by-mutual-consent/story-e6frf4a3-1225920942188
Neither saying that these reports are or were accurate at the time nor saying lower numbers were not reported elsewhere.
But anyhow, 6m was the number I had in my head and I remember founding it somewhat bizarre that Rafa was so enthusiasticly applauded for donating a mere 1.6% of what he had just taken out of the clubs coffers to the Hillsborough Family Support Group. After all, that was money he did not have to work for and he signed another multi-million pound contract with Inter a few days after that ...
Any further pointless/derogatory comments will be deleted. If you don't like this site, don't waste your time posting pointless comments. Makes sense, no :)
ReplyDeleteWhat's the point in you wasting time to post such a pointless comment?
ReplyDeleteThanks. It's still useful to know the total amount paid to Benitez and his backroom staff.
ReplyDeleteJust read Redman's comment that the total sum of donations made by Rafa in the aftermath of his sacking was closer to 3m. If that's true than I have to take back what I just said about donating a mere 1.6% of the severance package. I'd like to see some evidence on this though as I would have completely missed this.
ReplyDeleteWe can talk about the pay off for benitez, however that came under the H&G era so it is nil. The biggest thing was what did roy hodgson get paid off for> oh yes somewhere in the same price range, in the regeion of 7.3 million. yes fro fucking the club up, he got 7.3 million. At least benitez won something, hodgson bought crap and gave us nothing, absolutely nothing, the thing that 96% of fans knew before he signed. You can say all you want about benitez, however he did win the champions league and fa cup. hodgson who is the worst manager i have ever known got more money for basically nothing!!!
ReplyDeleteYou abandoned this ridiculouas anti-Rafa site when even you realised that you were getting nowehre and Rafa was increasing is stature. What brought you back?
ReplyDeleteRafa was entitled to 14 million and accepted only 6. Why not mention that?
Jamie to be honest it was never going to be a small amount all of the best managers are on heavy sums and Rafa had a lot of time left.
ReplyDeleteLets be fair to Rafa he deserved every penny, he showed us what was wrong inside the club, he sat with supporters and brought us one of the greatest nights in our history all with a very small budget. Some payouts are worth it and some not I would be interested to see how much Roy got now that would be good news....
Most of the rest of the 6 will have found it's way to hmrc
ReplyDeleteJaimie, come back to Colorado and see Rose and me in Vail for skiing trip whenever you feel like it!
ReplyDeletemarkus he gave 1.6% just to the hillsborough families. His wife is patron of Hoylake Cottage Hospital and it was reported inthe local free rag that they received a substantial donation. Also he did give 100k to Rhys Jones join a team not a gang charity and another substantial amount to the Marina Dalglish Cancer Charity. Locally where he lived at the time and actually lives now he is very well respected and both him and his wife give a lot of time etc to the local community. This doesnt detract from jamies article in that 4 5 or 7.5m is a lot of money it is however to keep things in perspective a lot less than others,Ancellotti forexample.
ReplyDeletejamie we will never agree about his time as Liverpool manager i think he did a very good jobunder very difficult circumstances but thatsfine its all about opinions and its good to listen and read other peoples perspectives. I am glad you think he is a decent man because ..........he is. if you havent already then get yourself a copy of the book an epic swindle 44 months with a pair of texas cowboys, its a fascinating read and i think mitigates some of Benitez problems. That said Hicks and Gillett where not all bad just mostly !
ReplyDeleteJaimie,
ReplyDeleteBefore you tell me to go away and post elsewhere, I read all of your articles with great interest and I was waiting till the day you come back with another dare I say it, Rafa Benitez article. What is wrong with you man? Are you obsessed? Rafa's gone yes he had his mistakes etc... but he is in the past and to us real fans he'll always be a legend regardless of his dud buys, stubborness to change tactics etc... he gave us big ears and that to us as fans we'll never forget.
What I want to ask is Joe Cole is on something like 90k a week how much is that in a year? Before you say anything I'm not attacking you but was he not Roy Hodgson's purchase, did Joe Cole turn out to be good for us? All I'm saying is with all managers you get good and bad, it doesn't matter how much Rafa got paid out its long gone plus he gave some of it to charity.
Jaimie look up mate, write something positive because it feels good to be a Liverpool FC fan again, we have owners who care, we have a manager who loves LFC and us fans. We have players who are passionate and determined to play for LFC. As I say do not attack with facts or no facts if you're a genuine fan back the team, back the manager and the players. We're onto great things again.
YNWA
Where does it state on that piece of paper that the payment was only made to Rafa Benitez?
ReplyDeleteHow many staff left with Rafa when he got the sack ? Just curious?
Is there someway we can get hold of the financial statements of lfc? I am into finance, and would love to see how a club operates.. I am aware that they have to make it public every few years. can u pls point me in the direction?
ReplyDeleteyeh let's get rafa back! maybe we can spend 20 million on an inury prone overated player in aquilani? OR why not buy robbie keane again for 20 million and sell him 6 months later? OR why not try for gareth barry again because he is better than current midfield we have OR why dont we get rafa back so he can tell raul meireles he isn't enough to be at liverpool let alone on the bench just like he told yossi? OR let's buy a striker and turn him into a winger, let him do that to andy carroll just like he did that with crouch? fucking stupid
ReplyDeleteSeriously, you are the most useless Liverpool "blogger" ever.
ReplyDeleteAdam,not sure who you support mate but anyhow Aquilani was bought injured but not for the 20mill you mention,we all know Robbie Keane was Rick Parry`s buy and NOT Rafa`s,Gareth Barry was first choice for Rafa to get balance on the left hand side to compensate for the injury prone Aurelio and the very young Insua,Crouchy wanted to leave for London for him and his now wife AND once we had signed Torres was never quick enough to get to the box to support Torres,Yossi when hot was hot,when cold average and never a 90 min man,i,can`t comment on miereles as he was`nt here when Rafa was,dont mind peoples diatribe but you must get your FACTS straight ynwa
ReplyDeleteWho cares, old news.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with my fellow Liverpool fans is that they always look to the past instead of moving forward with the times. Suggest you do the same.
Benitez deserved the sack and the only reason the fee was so high was because some idiot gave him a new contract when he should have been sacked sooner.
I'm sure Rafa was paid off an amount of money that "fairly" reflected what the rest of his contract was worth
ReplyDeleteHis people would have looked for X, were offered Y and they haggled. End of
The then owners probably felt that they needed to get rid of him before any prospective buyers came in, as Rafa was in battle mode with them, so maybe they overpaid his severance a little
I've always wondered how Rafa would have fared with owners like the current ones, this is why I've always argued about the net spend and the rate of spending *opens can of worms while releasing a cat into a pigeon loft*
We all have seen what a large sum of money in a short space of time has done for City and Chelsea, maybe Malaga / PSG soon also
Current owners, while not in that bracket, understand this and are backing manager
Rafa was always patching up, gradually overhauling the squad over years, by August 31st , Kenny will have completely overhauled the squad in 8 months
But we live in a world where ifs, buts and maybes are an irrelevance. Until someone builds and reliably tests the alternate universe viewer we will never know
I'd say it looks like 4 titles in last 6 years, 3 European Cup wins, Rafa the new benchmark for future Liverpool icons...... YNWA!!!
EXACTLY we bought him injured! what the fuck is the point in buying someone injured and then not bother playing him when fit? regardless of who bought robbie keane it was rafa who sold him 6 months later which is just absolutely ridiculous. Speaking of getting facts straight xabi alonso came out and said rafa never wanted him at liverpool and him pursuing gareth barry was a sign of that. I have no idea why you bothered to comment on crouch wanting to move as all i said was rafa tried to play him on the lw, regarding yossi wether or not he was hot or not for rafa to say he isn't good enough to be on the bench at liverpool is an absolute disgrace his man management skills were absolutely dreadful. so you have no right to tell me to get my "facts straight" because what you just wrote was utter garbage.
ReplyDeleteI am really excited for the future fellow LFC fans and would you like to know why?
ReplyDeleteRAFA WILL NEVER MANAGE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB EVER AGAIN AND THAT IS A FACT!!!
Now he is decent man lets not get that wrong but why have no other EPL clubs decided to take up his MANAGERIAL services? There was Villa but he failed to convince that he was the right man for them. We might just see him without a job for quite a long time.
At Valencia he took a stab at their owners
At LFC he took a stab at H & G
At Inter he tried his luck again with taking a stab at their owners and was given his marching orders straight away.
Which club will be willing to take a manager with a bad reputation when it comes to owners? He has a warm heart but one thing is for sure, he has made a crap load of money out of getting sacked. I can assure everyone that FSG will NEVER ask Rafa to make a comeback to LFC.
NB. This was not an attack on Rafa, it was just to let everyone know that Rafa's time at Anfield ended for a reason. He was not made for Liverpool Football Club and in the end it is better that he is not part of it anymore. The only part he will have is in our history.
Long live the KING!!!
To be fair dixie, Hodgson was here for six months so what were you expecting him to win in such a short time. Fact is that Hodgson was thrown into the fire by
ReplyDelete1. Getting appointed when the club was on the verge of administration.
2. Taking over a squad that had won bugger all for 4 seasons and then WAS EXPECTED TO WIN WHAT WITH THE SAME SQUAD IN SIX MONTHS?. So again I ask you what you were expecting Hodgson to win within six months when the squad Rafa left HAD WON NOTHING IN 4 SEASONS.
3. Had no money to spend.
4. Saw Yossi, and Mascherano leave who were very good players.
5. Was treated like a piece of dirt and and and...
I truely believe that Hodgson was just a quick fix, he was never going to be part of the plans going forward and FSG made the right decision to bring in Dalglish when they did. It all worked out well for us. Rafa left, Hodgson appointed when we were in turmoil then sacked when the fire was eventually put out and then Dalglish returned after our club was rescued by FSG. That paved the way for Dalglish to start the rebuild of the squad and it started in January of this year and has continued up to now.
The way everything panned out since Rafa, H + G and Hodgson left could not have worked out any better for us. We are on the way up again!!! :)
YNWA
He was 1 year into a 5 year contract, so ofcourse he was going to be given a big pay off. You cannot guess what it actually was as staff left with him which is part of the 7.75m.
ReplyDelete1 thing is for sure, im sick to death of reading critisms such as red4life above me as yeah for all the poor decisions, mistakes etc that came with Benitez, he gave us fans, some amazing times and experiences. The champions league in 2005 was an amazing experience for me and his time for me was well worth it for that alone. For a 3/4 years, teams in europe dreaded playing us and that was part down to benitez. People are quick to forget that we were ranked number 1 in europe under benitez. So lets remember the good things and move on for now the king is in charge and who knows what the future may bring! YNWA
STOP WITH BENITEZ :HE SPEND MONEY OK.HE GOT TO CHAMPIONS LEAGUE AND HE NOW WE WILL SEE KK.BUT HE HAS ALREADY GONE NOW DON'T CARE.OK
ReplyDeleteWe knew this in 2010 it was said then he got upto 6m, he had a long contract they wanted to sack, they have to pay up, whats the problem lad, not newsworthy anymore mate move on :)
ReplyDeleteYour avatar is fitting... get over yourself. You say you don't begrudge the guy his payout. He has gone! He is no longer with Liverpool! Get over it. Leave him alone! He brought Liverpool a lot of good times despite rubbish owners and General Managers. Move on already dude...<span> </span>
ReplyDeleteYou are full of crap dude... everybody took a stab at H&G. Did Rafa get the support Kenny is getting now? No... He was promised funds at Inter while trying to make them play his brand of football. It didn't work out. So what? He led Valencia to two titles yet they could not still afford to buy the players needed to maintain such a high standard.
ReplyDeleteLeave the dude alone man. He brought LIverpool cups and glory like nobody else since the premier league began. Give him some bloody credit and let him be!
I for one will be happy if he manages a team and kicks everybody's ass just to show how wrong they are.
Also he had four years left on his deal, and was legally due a full pay out. He could easily had made the club fire him and pay him some £16-20M, but chose to settle and then give his own money (which it was no matter how you look at it) to local charities. Benitez can be argued all day long put his devotion to the club and community deserves respect, like or dislike him as manager
ReplyDeleteYes everybody took a stab at H & G, my point is if you did not notice that Rafa HAS A BAD REPUTATION WHEN IT COMES TO THE OWNERS OF CLUBS THAT HE HAS BEEN WITH so that is not doing him any favours.
ReplyDeleteHe did manage a team after LFC and a very good one called Inter Milan if you have already forgotten. Inter won just about each and every trophy the previous season and Rafa made a complete toss up of things in Italy. What does Rafa go and do? Demands to be sacked or backed six months into his job. If Mourinho was able in 2010 to win the Serie A, Coppa Italia and the Champions League with the team Rafa took over then surely Rafa was left a winning team yet Rafa claimed that Inter needed improvement? Improvement to a team that were Italian and European Champions? Have a laugh.
Rafa did well in the CL with LFC, I will give him that but he was no better than Houllier in the EPL unless you want to prove me wrong. Both Houllier and Rafa had no idea how the EPL works.
I have said before that Rafa did some good things for our club but by no means am I going to roll out the red carpet for him as he was part of our demise even with H & G at the club. I do not have to agree with anyone who thought Rafa was a God. Please show me the fine print which states that Rafa is not allowed to be criticized.
I for one hope Rafa does return to the EPL though with another team (not LFC) to finally let everyone see that he is not made for the english game and that it was without a doubt right for him to be shown the door at LFC.
Kenny dalglish in his own words... <span>“It was right for everybody that Rafa Benitez left, for him and for Liverpool Football Club."</span>
LONG LIVE THE KING!!!
Gerrard Houllier EPL History with LFC (excluding joint manager with Evans in 97/98 when we finished 3rd)
ReplyDelete98/99 - 7th
99/00 - 4th
00/01 - 3rd
01/02 - 2nd
02/03 - 5th
03/04 - 4th
Average finish - 4th
Rafael Beintez EPL History with LFC
04/05 - 5th
05/06 - 3rd
06/07 - 3rd
07/08 - 4th
08/09 - 2nd
09/10 - 7th
Average finish - 4th
Gerrard Houllier Major trophies with LFC
Uefa Cup 2001
Uefa Super Cup 2011
FA Cup 2001
League Cup 2001
League Cup 2003
Total Major Trophies: 5
Rafael Benitez Major trophies with LFC
Champions League 2005
FA Cup 2006
Uefa Super Cup 2005
Total Major Trophies: 3
Both Houllier and Rafa came to LFC and did what they could and both failed in the English game hence the reason why both are no longer with the club.
Now answer this question, what makes Rafa such a God when he achieved no more than what Houllier did and also spent more than Houllier? That is what gets to me Rafa, Rafa, Rafa. Untouchable Rafa...
<span>Houllier brought good times and bad times yes. He took Liverpool as far as they could and left under a cloud with Liverpool playing the most boring football in the leauge. Benitez came in and transformed Liverpool into a European powerhouse. People say he spent a lot of money but we all know he had to sell first and could never have the best of both worlds. He did not have the support to have a deep and talented squad. He could either have a deep squad but average players as he was not able to afford his primary targets or he could spend his entire budget on one or two players and thus is left with a good first eleven but shall depth.If he was given half the support from H&G as Kenny is being given now I think he could have taken us further. I also believe his struggles in England was due to the fact that he had to shop outside of England as the players were cheaper and all he could afford based on his budget. During the year we came second, you saw what LIverpool was capable of doing under Rafa but with a shallow squad that cannot be maintained. Yes he bought Aqua who took time to get himself right but nobody today can doubt his quality and I still maintain he would not and should not be called a flop as he was not given enough time by Hodgson.That is my difference between Rafa and Houllier.
ReplyDeleteAs for Inter, Mourinho got them to win yes, but they did not get many admirers for their style during those wins. Should Rafa come in and just let them play their way and sit back and do nothing? Of course not! He has his style of playing (which is a damn site better than Mourinho's style if you ask me). It struggled in the beginning and yes he wanted the same level of support Mourinho got in order to get some players in and it was not given.
I am not a blind follower of Rafa and was also frustrated at times during league play but I feel he, given the support the other top managers are getting could do something special and I would love to see him prove it someday.You saw Valencia when they won two league titles and when they destroyed us under Rafa? You saw Liverpool destroy Real Madrid. There were many lows but the highs in my opinion show the potential and the lows showed the consequences of a shallow squad.</span>
First of all, Mourinho's success will put Rafa's to shame. I will not even bother posting the trophies he has won compared to that of Rafa's, it will honestly be a waste of time. Jose's success alone at Porto is something to be admired and he has been consistant down the years no matter what his style of play or club he has managed. Despite Mourinho's "bad loser" attitude, he is still a WINNER and has proven that without a shadow of a doubt.
ReplyDeleteYou are clutching at straws my friend with saying Rafa had no support, those who were carrying on about NET SPEND (which I feel is the biggest load of toss ever) and let me demonstrate why...
Now the figures I am using are from lfchistory.net and their info might not be entirely correct but it is a site that promotes LFC in a very good way so there figures can't be that far off from the truth. Jaimie has also done this excersise many a time so he can correct me should this not be close to the actuall figures.
Gerrard Houllier Transfer History
Players Bought TOTAL = 126,400,000
Players Sold TOTAL = 60,675,000
NET = 65,725,000
Average TOTAL SPEND over 6 seasons = 21,065,000
Rafael Benitez
Players Bought TOTAL = 231,276,000 Million
Players Sold TOTAL = 161,700,000
NET = 69,576,000
Average TOTAL SPEND over 6 seasons = 38,546,000
Kenny Dalglish 2nd term
Players Bought TOTAL = 106,800,000
Players Sold TOTAL = 59,150,000
NET = 47,650,000
Now from the figures above it shows that NET SPEND is such a load of rubbish as Dalglish even if it may be only over 1 season has a NET figure lower than that of both Houllier and Rafa. According to NET SPEND activists, Rafa's net spend figure was not suitable yet it is more than Houlliers and far more than Kenny's. That is why NET SPEND is such a load of sh*** because if Dalglish's NET SPEND ends up less than Rafa's over the years to come then what excuse will the Rafa crew then make for him not being backed financially?
Fact is that Rafa had 231,276,000 MILLION at his disposable over six season which is not a drop in the ocean. It also does over what timeline the money was spent. FACT is that every single penny was used to recruit players and that amount of Rafa's is almost DOUBLE the TOTAL SPENT amount Hoillier had over six seasons. Clearly excuses are just the only way to protect Rafa's failures over the seasons. Obviously people still can't see the wood for the trees when it comes to Rafa and they will keep on making excuses for the man. Luckily there are some people who can see through Rafa and I am happy to say that i am one of those people.
I have a question.
ReplyDeleteThe note in the accounts states that the cost relates to the cbange of coaching staff.
When was Hodgson appointed and couldn't a significant percentge of the amount relate to compensation payments made to Fulham?
I don't need to get any facts straight for the simple reason I didn't use any. I merely questioned your interpretation of them, which seems logical enough given the amount of guesswork you've done.
ReplyDeleteThe item you've reproduced reads:
"5. Administrative expenses - exceptional costs. Termination payments and associated costs 2010 £000 7,775. 2009 £000 4,332. Exceptional costs include amounts paid to former employees and other costs related to the change in coaching staff in the close season"
You then go on to write:
"The likelihood is that the bulk of the 7.75m went to Benitez, with a very real possibility that he could've received around £6m (thought I concede the figure could be lower than that)".
"Likelihood" and "possibility" are both words that describe uncertainty. In this case you are uncertain of the facts behind the figures. Uncertainty and fact don't sit so happily together do they? By using those words you are (perhaps inadvertently) conceding your claim is not based on fact and is in reality your best guess, even though the figures quoted in the LFC accounts are, to the best of our knowledge, fact. You are guessing what the figures mean. Guesses aren't facts. I could define the words here for you if you like, but I am sure you knew what they meant before you typed them and in any case as someone who seems to use the internet quite regularly I am sure you are aware of the many dictionary websites out there that could set you straight. "Could be lower" also seems to indicate you are unsure. Not unsure of the figures quoted in the accounts, but unsure of your own interpretation of them. If you are unsure that's not really an "irrefutable fact" is it? You mistakenly conflate your own reasoning (guesswork) with the facts you have reprinted. One isn't a fact, the other is.
Irrefutable fact. Facts are irrefutable, that's the point. A claim isn't, which is also the point. So a claim can't really be a fact - it's either a fact or it isn't. See the Injury Lawyers 4 U small print for details. In your case it isn't, it's conjecture, and assumption. You have on one side the fact (amount paid) and the assumption (Benitez probably took X...although it might have been Y...and it may have been even lower still). You have taken the fact and muddled it with your own presuppositions, and in your confusion have taken my gentle probing of your reasoning to be something entirely different. I don't question the published figures because I have no reason to. What I do question is what you have chosen to read into them and how you arrived at your quite arbitrary conclusions. How you have managed to interpret that as "muddying the water" I have no idea. If anything I am asking for greater clarity, which may have been provided by going a bit deeper at the research stage. I suggested you could potentially cast your net a bit wider, or maybe come at the numbers from another angle, but you either don't have time for that or the approach simply didn't occur to you. If anyone ever offers you a stick mate make sure the correct end is clearly labeled.
Hodgson signed after the 31 July, which means any compensation payment will appear in the accounts for 2010-11.
ReplyDeleteIn your zeal to try and prove me wrong you've neglected to read my article properly:
ReplyDelete* The fact that LFC had to pay 7.75m to end Benitez's reign is irrefutable fact. it's right there in black and white in the accounts. The only thing I state as fact in the article is the figure itself, which is why I use words like 'likelihood' and 'possibility' when discussing things that are *clearly* my opinion.
You are again trying to muddy the waters. it is very simple: my argument is that it cost 7.75m to end Benitz's reign - that means it cost 7.75m to pay off Benitez AND anyone else who was part of Benitez's reign who left at the same time.
At no point do I claim to know the exact amount Benitez received. With this in mind, I'm not quite sure what your point is.
ok, eaiser one for you: don't confuse guesswork with fact...
ReplyDeletePS my zeal to prove you wrong is nothing more than a plea for you to examine your facts with a wider perspective. Thought that much was obvious in the two posts I'd written. Stick > wrong end of > again... (*sighs*)
ReplyDeleteSo if we hadn't fired him we'd be at least 7.7 mill richer, plus in all likelyhood be playing champions league football and Rafa would have just spent big in the tranfer market with players like Torres and Mascherano also most likely to have still been at the club. Yep sounds a lot more costly than the 3-4 mill the press were on about
ReplyDeleteTo Red4Life
ReplyDeleteFor your argument about Houllier, Rafa and Kenny's net spends, when managers manage a club for long time (5-6 years) there are reasonable to get larger net spend because of bad deal of player, inflation etc. Those net spend is not appears overnight. You should understand what the situation regarding those transfers. Rafa sold one player for example 3mil but need to buy a player let say 6mil to replace, but better quality and age. That small amount if you add will sum quite a large number, BUT IT'S FOR TEAM SAKE!!
It's true don't blind support Rafa, but don't blind everything good he done with club, and supporters
exactly what I thought, it was always known that the severance package was around 6M
ReplyDeletehttp://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=792423&sec=england&cc=3436
guys, my dad once told me, if you have nothing good to say, just shut the f*ck up, there's a topic of discussion here and there are some of us who wants to get involved.
it's not about whether Rafa deserves the money, Jaimie; IIRC, when they (two cowboys whose name can't be spoken of) renewed his contract, there is a clause that increase his severance package to around 10M? Rafa and the owners/board held a meeting and decided it's best interest for him to leave with 6M
Found it! it was 16M for his severance package in the contract
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article7142868.ece
I can see where the 3M figure comes from:
"...the Liverpool board approved a proposal to the Spaniard that would allow him to leave Anfield with a payoff worth about £3 million up front."
3M up front, that means more to come after that!
rafa gross = 289
ReplyDeleteNET = 63
KK gross = 114
NET- 38
In 1/6th the time KK has reached half the spend. simple math
Now
consider KK's NET is helped ebcause he has been able to sell players at
huge values due to rafas success at leaving an inherant squad value. By
your own admission 77 mil of KK's funding came from Rafas successfull
buys you muppit.
Rafa didnt inherit squad value, had no funds and faced club administration and had large success.
KK
has us 7th having spent an absolute fortune, on what many agree as
wasteful spending. We have been knocked out by braga and are 7th int he
league.
Is it one rule for somebody you do not like and another rule for another. How about abit of consistancyRead More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2011/11/26/kenny-dalglish-reds-fans-can-cheer-liverpool-fc-on-to-victory-against-manchester-city-100252-29845373/?plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:09313a35-1a87-4d35-b019-f7bdd2b46cee#ixzz1esQjAOLg