The doom and gloom over Liverpool seems to have momentarily subsided after the weekend win over West Ham, which was Roy Hodgson's 23rd game in charge at Anfield. How is he doing (in terms of results) compared to Rafa Benitez's first 23 games in 2004-5? Also, how do this season's results compare to results in the same games last season?
BENITEZ vs. HODGSON: First 23 Games Comparison
ANALYSIS
* Hodgson has lost FEWER games than Benitez in his first 23 games (Benitez 8; Hodgson 6)
* Both managers have a similar number of wins overall (Benitez 12; Hodgson 11)
* Hodgson is unbeaten in 17 out of 23 games; for Benitez, it was 15 out of 23 games.
* Both managers have the same unbeaten record in the league: 9 out of 14
* Benitez has only 4 more points than Hodgson in the league after 14 games, which is not such a significant difference at this stage.
* Goals scored/conceded for both managers are practically the same.
* In his first 14 league games, Benitez's Liverpool played many of the poorest and/or newly promoted teams in the league: Bolton, West Brom, Norwich, Fulham, Charlton, Blackburn, Birmingham, Crystal Palace and Middlesbrough.
* Benitez also played Spurs and Man City, both of whom were poor teams back then (In the preceding season, Spurs finished 14th and Man City finished 16th). The only real tests Benitez's team faced were against Man United and Chelsea, and both games were lost.
* In his first 13 league games, Hodgson's team has faced Arsenal, Chelsea, Man United and Man City. However, unlike 2004-5, City is now a quality team with limitless transfer spending ability and squad full of expensive players.
* Hodgson's team has played the likes of Wigan, Stoke, Blackburn, Bolton, Birmingham and West Brom, but these teams are arguably superior in quality to the lower-level sides played in 2004. The basic point here is that Hodgson has had a much harder start to contend with than Benitez did.
* Hodgson's team has also played Everton, which is always a tough game no matter what season. The game was lost, but Liverpool has lost to Everton many times in the past; losing against them is no disgrace given the passion involved in the game. Incidentally, Benitez also lost at Goodison in his first season.
* It is widely accepted that the quality of the Premier League has improved in quality since 2004; it is also clear that the gap between the so-called smaller teams and the top 4 is closing. This was especially evident last season, with the top teams losing more games than normal on the way to the title.
* Hodgson's European record is admirable: 6 victories out of 8, and no defeats. Why should this be disregarded?
* No matter how fans try and twist it, Trabzonspor, Steaua Bucharest and Napoli are not poor teams. Trabzonspor finished 5th in the Turkish league in 2009-10; Steaua Bucharest is the most successful team in Romanian history, and Napoli are currently 3rd in Serie A.
* When looking at results from last, Benitez managed to gain two more points than Hodgson in the league against the same teams. A two point differential is fair enough considering the context of Hodgson's reign so far, and the fact that last season, Liverpool still had Mascherano and Benayoun.
Taking everything into consideration, Hodgson is doing okay. His record is on a par with Benitez's so far, and is actually better in some ways (better Euro record; fewer games lost etc). If fans had any sense of fairness they would look at the context and appreciate how difficult Hodgson's job has been.
Improvement still needs to happen, but whilst Hodgson tries to achieve that, I'm willing to give him the time. As I've argued previously, on the 1st January 2011, Liverpool should hopefully:
* Be in the top 4, or within touching distance (i.e. within 3 - 5 points)
* Have massively improved the style of play/performances.
At present, Liverpool are only 3 points from 5th and 6 points from 4th, which is definitely within touching distance. The club has won 5 of the last 8 games, and is unbeaten in 7 out of 8 games. Only Man United have a comparable record at this stage. Is this not a positive springboard for continuing progress? With 6 and half months of the season to go, and 72 points still to play for, writing off Hodgson and this team now is just ridiculous in the extreme.
A win against Spurs this weekend would really boost Liverpool's league season, and I am confident it can be achieved.
Jaimie Kanwar
BENITEZ vs. HODGSON: First 23 Games Comparison
ANALYSIS
* Hodgson has lost FEWER games than Benitez in his first 23 games (Benitez 8; Hodgson 6)
* Both managers have a similar number of wins overall (Benitez 12; Hodgson 11)
* Hodgson is unbeaten in 17 out of 23 games; for Benitez, it was 15 out of 23 games.
* Both managers have the same unbeaten record in the league: 9 out of 14
* Benitez has only 4 more points than Hodgson in the league after 14 games, which is not such a significant difference at this stage.
* Goals scored/conceded for both managers are practically the same.
* In his first 14 league games, Benitez's Liverpool played many of the poorest and/or newly promoted teams in the league: Bolton, West Brom, Norwich, Fulham, Charlton, Blackburn, Birmingham, Crystal Palace and Middlesbrough.
* Benitez also played Spurs and Man City, both of whom were poor teams back then (In the preceding season, Spurs finished 14th and Man City finished 16th). The only real tests Benitez's team faced were against Man United and Chelsea, and both games were lost.
* In his first 13 league games, Hodgson's team has faced Arsenal, Chelsea, Man United and Man City. However, unlike 2004-5, City is now a quality team with limitless transfer spending ability and squad full of expensive players.
* Hodgson's team has played the likes of Wigan, Stoke, Blackburn, Bolton, Birmingham and West Brom, but these teams are arguably superior in quality to the lower-level sides played in 2004. The basic point here is that Hodgson has had a much harder start to contend with than Benitez did.
* Hodgson's team has also played Everton, which is always a tough game no matter what season. The game was lost, but Liverpool has lost to Everton many times in the past; losing against them is no disgrace given the passion involved in the game. Incidentally, Benitez also lost at Goodison in his first season.
* It is widely accepted that the quality of the Premier League has improved in quality since 2004; it is also clear that the gap between the so-called smaller teams and the top 4 is closing. This was especially evident last season, with the top teams losing more games than normal on the way to the title.
* Hodgson's European record is admirable: 6 victories out of 8, and no defeats. Why should this be disregarded?
* No matter how fans try and twist it, Trabzonspor, Steaua Bucharest and Napoli are not poor teams. Trabzonspor finished 5th in the Turkish league in 2009-10; Steaua Bucharest is the most successful team in Romanian history, and Napoli are currently 3rd in Serie A.
* When looking at results from last, Benitez managed to gain two more points than Hodgson in the league against the same teams. A two point differential is fair enough considering the context of Hodgson's reign so far, and the fact that last season, Liverpool still had Mascherano and Benayoun.
Taking everything into consideration, Hodgson is doing okay. His record is on a par with Benitez's so far, and is actually better in some ways (better Euro record; fewer games lost etc). If fans had any sense of fairness they would look at the context and appreciate how difficult Hodgson's job has been.
Improvement still needs to happen, but whilst Hodgson tries to achieve that, I'm willing to give him the time. As I've argued previously, on the 1st January 2011, Liverpool should hopefully:
* Be in the top 4, or within touching distance (i.e. within 3 - 5 points)
* Have massively improved the style of play/performances.
At present, Liverpool are only 3 points from 5th and 6 points from 4th, which is definitely within touching distance. The club has won 5 of the last 8 games, and is unbeaten in 7 out of 8 games. Only Man United have a comparable record at this stage. Is this not a positive springboard for continuing progress? With 6 and half months of the season to go, and 72 points still to play for, writing off Hodgson and this team now is just ridiculous in the extreme.
A win against Spurs this weekend would really boost Liverpool's league season, and I am confident it can be achieved.
Jaimie Kanwar
Jamie, thanks yet again for another valuable comparison. My only qualification is that Liverpool were competing in the CL in Europe during Rafa's first year but in the EL now, which suggest that the comparison in Europe is biased in Roy's favour.
ReplyDeleteI am afraid that I am less sanguine than you about the prospects of our current manager, but I of course hope that I am wrong and you are right. If Roy goes on to surprise the sceptics like myself, I will be more than happy to have been wrong on this count.
Write your articles under your own name, Roy.
ReplyDeleteWrite your articles under your own name, Roy.
ReplyDeleteWrite your articles under your own name, Roy.
ReplyDelete"The site is moving to paid hosting so, alas, a little advertising will be necessary to cover the costs of that<span>" - Lol
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Good article.
ReplyDeleteI've been arguing with my pro Benitez associates that Hodgson is OK and just needs time. My only concern is his 13 away wins in total throughout his career in English football, but I'm sure LFC can bolster that record once confidence grows.
These figures show that, performances aside, Hodgson is going in the right direction and this will hopefully be evident against Spurs.
Keep up the good work
Are you sure your not a Man Utd Fan. You stress hodgson has lost few games and make that a MAJOR point yet dismiss the points difference of 4 as "insignificant".....Let me stress a STATISTIC to you - 2008 season - LFC lost the title by 4 points....... now it doesnt seem so insignificant does it !!!!
ReplyDeleteAnd as stressed by many people before... Hodgson is an English Manager who has managed in the Premier League.... Benitez when he came to England had NEVER managed in the English league.
I love Kanwar's blogs. Who cares what he thinks? Whatever anti-Rafa bollo*ks he 'researches' has absolutely no effect whatsever. You'd think he'd get off job seeker's allowance and look for a post in North Korea where propaganda is an art form.
ReplyDeleteI agree with many of your points, however trying to knock Benitez' European record is ludicrous. He won the champions league and got to the final 2 years later. If hodgson can achieve that in the next 4-5 years i will eat my feet.
ReplyDeleteI could also argue that Hodgson inherited a better squad but thats just getting picky on my behalf
On the whole though i find the comparison very interesting, and maybe it proves that Hodgson isn't all that bad. Just needs some attacking wingers another striker and to play attacking football in order to win some respect.
You wrote a similar story a few weeks ago for which I did put an intelligent reply but you chose to concentrate your time on replying to the provoking messages.
ReplyDeleteAnyway... my issue with this article is that for all your banging on about being fair etc you have written some paragraphs which twist the reader into believing your argument:
* Hodgson has lost FEWER games than Benitez in his first 23 games (Benitez 8; Hodgson 6)<span>
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* Benitez has only 4 more points than Hodgson in the league after 14 games, which is not such a significant difference at this stage.<span>
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Point one makes us believe your strong argument (FEWER - in capital letters) on how hodgson has lost fewer games. Paragraph 2 though states that Benitez only has four more points. So, Hodgson losing fewer games is more of an achievment. Benitez having four more points doesnt deserve to be highlighted quite as much. If we had ONLY four more points now we would be 5th in the league and within touching distance of fourth.
but this is my favourite paragraph:
* No matter how fans try and twist it, Trabzonspor, Steaua Bucharest and Napoli are not poor teams. Trabzonspor finished 5th in the Turkish league in 2009-10; Steaua Bucharest is the most successful team in Romanian history, and Napoli are currently 3rd in Serie A.<span>
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5th in the Turkish league a good team? Most famous team in Romanian history? Give me a break mate. It is quite clearly you who is twisting words to make us believe you.
Thanks Jaimie for providing me with all that amunition, wouldnt have been able to show your inconsistencies without it ;)
those four points difference ur talking about can make the table look a lot differently for us right now. and plus screw the Europa league. look at the league stats. 2 more wins the Woy and same losses. The extra losses affecting the total on benetiz side is from the CL (Which he won BTW). imagine Hodgson putting out a team away from home to one of europes finest. you bet your ass hes gonna lose them all. One OK draw at Napoli and he was going insane. sorry mate no comparison wat so ever. ur comparing a legend to someone whos going to get fired soon!!
ReplyDeleteThis is a good article, however it does sound like its slagging Rafa off a bit, Rafa is easily one of the top managers weve had and did a great job, I just dont knw if Roy is up to it, the style of play this season has been terrible so far but maybe this will change when some new players come in. I think the new year will definately show us if Roy is up to the job with the transfer window etc. fingers crossed!!!
ReplyDelete3 points;
ReplyDeleteRoy is not new to the PL, Rafa was.
Roy is not playing teams from Europes elite competition, Rafa was.
Roy doesnt have a track record of success, Rafa had.
Hodgson doesn't come any close to Rafa in terms of tactical depth and undestanding of the game. His boring style of play will continue to leave our top players frustrated. i think he'll get the axe sooner, or later
ReplyDeleteI agree with the stats that Roy Hodgsons reign is as abismal as Rafas first season. We finished 33 points off the pace and 5th behind everton. The fact Rafa came from a winning Valencia side who pushed through the monopoly that was Barcelona and Real Madrid gave him time as we knew he was a top manager who would eventually make the changes needed. Although the league form was not the best he did make up for it by winning the champions league that season. In Rafas defence he was coming to a new league where he had to understand the different dynamics that go with it. The real fact is Rafa is no longer at the club and he did not get us to win the league, he did come close, but failed. So after 6 years the board decided to replace him with another manager. At the time I could understand it, if we got someone better or as good then it may have got us going forward again. When Hodgsons name cropped up I thought he is no better and the statistics you have put to the table now show us that this statement is true!!. Dont get me wrong I would love to be proved wrong and for Liverpool's sake I really hope I am. I will be the first to say It. The fact We are having a poor season and the manager although trying is not held in the same regards as Wenger, Ferguson, ancelotti, Mourinho etc. When we are trying to bring in the world class players in the transfer window, Players who we need to get us up the table, which managers are these players going to sing for??? Another angle to this is Steve McClaren, Done wonders with FC Twente, We could of had him!!! if he where sitting in Roys shoes would we defend him or would have we all said what we said about Roy Hodgson when he had his good season with Fuham, 'i am happy he has done well for that small club, I hope we dont get him in' as we Know history tells you when they come on to the bigger stage with high profile managers in the league who are thier competition they woefully blends into the background, producing a mediocre team. This is what will happen to liverpool and your statistics go along way to prove this!!
ReplyDeleteIf there is any show of misrepresentative highlights from stats, this blog is par excellance. Comparing Rafa's first season of Liverpool should be contrasted with Hodgson in the context that the latter was participating in a lesser quality competition, namely, the Europa League. So charting performance over the first 23 games, when Hodgson only participated in 19 games can only derive a flawed analysis. Such a point was made in a previous blog. Still the article first highlights "Hodgson has lost FEWER games than Benitez in his first 23 games (Benitez 8; Hodgson 6)" instead of highlighting a better comparison; From the stats above, saying, "Hodgson has lost the same number of games than Benitez in his first 14 LEAGUE games, but Benetiz won 2 more and drew 2 less than Hodgson would be more fitting." Jamie do yourself a favour and give yourself some credibility by being more objective. When doing a statisitical analysis, coming across as pro-Hodgson is just as bas as coming off as pro-Rafa.
ReplyDeleteAlso, be brave enough to leave this on your blog. My previous criticisms were taken off.
We know about the saying that says there are lies, damn lies and statistics. Means we can interpret stats, the way we want it to look like.
ReplyDeleteHodgson is someone who has learnt his trade mechanically through experience. For him management is more of a science than an art. Though he gets his science wrong sometimes, especially when playing away. He's rigid and takes a lot if time to tackle the problem head-on. Very often, he reacts when too late.
Rafa has showed many times that he uses his gut feelings to make decisive changes when games are about to be lost. And he managed to get some success from time to time. His tactics are rehearsed over and over again - Repetition causes learning. But many would have observed after international games that Liverpool would be out of sorts and would require 5-7 days to get the players back to Rafa-style football. Without H&G to worry him, we'll judge him at Inter.
Anyways do not expect Roy to get sacked any time soon unless things go terribly wrong. He'll be there for some time to come... we like it or not. NESV will not want to pay him 18 months salary for free. But i do not see him past 2 years, John Henry likes youth and modern thinking. Look at Comolli and if you want to extrapolate even the wife does not beat that philosophy.
Anyways Jaimie your articles are thought-provoking and this is a recipe for success. Reading articles which goes in the same line of thinking like everyone does not carry any appeal. The more you provoke, the more people will come to visit u and some will derive pleasure in contradicting you... and the show goes on.
Sorry but all this shows is Roy's lost 2 more PL games and has 4 less points, this to anyone with half a brian just shows Roy is doing worse and has CL pressure!
ReplyDeleteWell said!
ReplyDeleteWhat difference does it make if Benitez had not managed in the PL before? None whatsoever. As people are always quick to remind me, Benitez won La Liga twice prior to joining the PL AND the UEFA Cup. He's apparently an amazing manager yet all of a sudden we're supposed to believe that the fact that he moved to the PL is the main reason for LFC's league failures in 2004-5?! Surely a manager as good as Benitez is better equipped to handle the Premier League than Hodgson?
ReplyDeleteLosing the league by 4 points is also irrelevant; that is over an entire season; this comparison is over 14 league games.
I am not knocking Benitez's Euro record at all; I am merely pointing out that Hodgson's Euro record is not so bad compared to Benitez's.
ReplyDeleteThe argument that Benitez played harder teams in the CL (during the first phase) is nonsense. Football has moved on in quality since 2004, and the teams played by Hodgson are NOT poor teams. No matter how fans try and twist it, Trabzonspor, Steaua Bucharest and Napoli are not poor teams. Trabzonspor finished 5th in the Turkish league in 2009-10; Steaua Bucharest is the most successful team in Romanian history, and Napoli are currently 3rd in Serie A, just two points off the top (ahead of Benitez's Inter Milan).
We played Rabotnicki, but Benitez's team played Graz.
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Jamie,
ReplyDeleteTo take a leaf out of your book.... A competitive game is a competitive game, it does not and should not matter who the opposition is. You go on about the fact that your stats prove your point, however your first few points about Benitez beating poor teams is contradictory to your arguments that all your statements are based on fact. You further contradict yourself by saying that RH European record is admirable.... in my humble opinion a poor competition but a competition none the less. I find it strange the RH can expect a degree of leniency in your arguments but Benitez cannot. I think you need to be fair and a bit more objective in your arguments, it is becoming very transparent now. And a diffential of 4 points is a win and a draw, something that could have won us the PL in 08-09.
Anyway, i hope we do a number on Spurs this weekend, bring them down to earth a little, after their stunning comeback at Arsenal.
Anyway... my issue with this article is that for all your banging on about being fair etc you have written some paragraphs which twist the reader into believing your argument:
ReplyDelete* Hodgson has lost FEWER games than Benitez in his first 23 games (Benitez 8; Hodgson 6)<span>
</span> * Benitez has only 4 more points than Hodgson in the league after 14 games, which is not such a significant difference at this stage.<span>
</span>Are you serious? Do I have some kind of mind control ability here? People will read and make up their own minds. I'm just giving my opinion, which I'm entitled to do.
Point one makes us believe your strong argument (FEWER - in capital letters) on how hodgson has lost fewer games. Paragraph 2 though states that Benitez only has four more points. So, Hodgson losing fewer games is more of an achievment. Benitez having four more points doesnt deserve to be highlighted quite as much. If we had ONLY four more points now we would be 5th in the league and within touching distance of fourth.
My points don't *make* you believe anything. you have a mind of your own, don't you? if you don't agree then don't agree - that's your right. What you're reading into the article comes from you, not me.
but this is my favourite paragraph:
* No matter how fans try and twist it, Trabzonspor, Steaua Bucharest and Napoli are not poor teams. Trabzonspor finished 5th in the Turkish league in 2009-10; Steaua Bucharest is the most successful team in Romanian history, and Napoli are currently 3rd in Serie A.<span>
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5th in the Turkish league a good team? Most famous team in Romanian history? Give me a break mate. It is quite clearly you who is twisting words to make us believe you. <span></span>
Nothing I've said is factually incorrect there. I'm not twisting anything; it is you who istwisting things. As I said above, you have a mind of your own. Use it.
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ReplyDeleteIt ok's everyone. We have negative goal difference, are closer to the relegation places than the top of the league. We have a manager who wants to dampen expectation at every turn, who's plan A isn't working very well given our league position and who clearly has no plan B since we have amassed a grand total of 0 points from a losing position. It is alright that he is alienating fans and players left, right and centre. All of it is absolutely ok because:
He is doing similarly to the last guy that this site campaigned tirelessly to denigrate. We clearly didn't get rid of the last manager to improve. We don't really have to improve as long as we can point backwards and say 'well he is doing the same as him'. After all Roy took on a side that was so bad the author of this site had a £500 wager they would finish in the top 4, how is he expected to do any better? His team were so terrible the site author was forced to bet £500 on them finishing high up. Awful side he was left with. Roy also had the whole ownership thing to deal with which no way impacted the players/management last year and, lets face it, last year it wasn't really an excuse according to the (self) esteemed owner of this site. Who was the lone voice in the crowd championing our past owners?
It is all ok. Roy is here, after all he had proved he is up to the job so far, if only I could remember how it was so.
Will sleep easier now.
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The point here is that 4 points *at this stage* doesn't make a blind bit of difference. There are still 72 points to play for. Bolton were in 4th place the other day (perhaps they still are?); does that mean they are going to stay there for the whole season?! More than likely, no. Based on their squad strength and past history they will slip down the table as the season goes on. The number of points they have now is pretty irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteSame goes for Liverpool. The club is moving up the table after an incredibly difficuly few months. John Henry has said that it is 'simply wrong' to blame Hodgson for the 'plague of problems' afflicting Liverpool. That's good enough for me. It's good to see we have a fair and reasonable owner.
All three points are utterly irrelevant soundbytes that Hodgson detractors just wheel out to support their tenuous arguments. Please explain why these three points are so important.
ReplyDeletedidnt we get hodgson because he is better? didnt think so . also rafa had a much poorer squad of players diuff , dioa, traore , plus many more . also in champ league he had to field a first choice team and woy didnt . doesnt matter how you twist it rafa is the better manager and now the cash restraints are gone , we will never know what more he could of won lfc . plus all our top players have backed him lately , except for gerrard and i wont a 2 year deal carra
ReplyDeleteHow am I slagging off Benitez? This comparison is totally fair; I've even looked at benitez's results from last season to get a fairer overview of how Hodgson is progressing. This is not really about Benitez, it's about trying to show that the overwrought, exaggerated criticism of Hodgson is out of line, and has no real basis.
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ReplyDelete"Hodgson has lost FEWER games than Benitez in his first 23 games (Benitez 8; Hodgson 6).
Both managers have a similar number of games won overall (Benitez 12, Hodgson 11)"
What was wrong there Jaimie, could you not bring yourself to caps lock the fact that Benitez has actually won MORE games not 'similar'? Funny how stats are presented differently to enforce your opinion. Very cultish behaviour...
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ReplyDelete"Hodgson has lost FEWER games than Benitez in his first 23 games (Benitez 8; Hodgson 6).
Both managers have a similar number of games won overall (Benitez 12, Hodgson 11)"
What was wrong there Jaimie, could you not bring yourself to caps lock the fact that Benitez has actually won MORE games not 'similar'? Funny how stats are presented differently to enforce your opinion. Very cultish behaviour...
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ReplyDelete"Hodgson has lost FEWER games than Benitez in his first 23 games (Benitez 8; Hodgson 6).
Both managers have a similar number of games won overall (Benitez 12, Hodgson 11)"
What was wrong there Jaimie, could you not bring yourself to caps lock the fact that Benitez has actually won MORE games not 'similar'? Funny how stats are presented differently to enforce your opinion. Very cultish behaviour...
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As usual, you wheel out the same baseless excuses:
ReplyDeleteComparing Rafa's first season of Liverpool should be contrasted with Hodgson in the context that the latter was participating in a lesser quality competition, namely, the Europa League.
This makes no difference whatsoever. Results are results, and the quality of the Euro teams played by Benitez in the first 3 months of the season is not massively higher than the quality of the teams played by Hodgson. If it is, explain why, with concrete examples.
So charting performance over the first 23 games, when Hodgson only participated in 19 games can only derive a flawed analysis.
How has Hodgson only participated in 19 games?! He has been manager for 23 games since the start of the season. That is a fact. What exactly is your point?
Still the article first highlights "Hodgson has lost FEWER games than Benitez in his first 23 games (Benitez 8; Hodgson 6)" instead of highlighting a better comparison; From the stats above, saying, "Hodgson has lost the same number of games than Benitez in his first 14 LEAGUE games, but Benetiz won 2 more and drew 2 less than Hodgson would be more fitting."
It is absolutely CORRECT to state that Hodgson has lost fewer games than Benitez in his first 23. Why should I highlight just the league? basically, you want me to highlight anything that puts Benitez in a better light. You have no objectivity or fairness at all on this issue. If, for example, Hodgson had fewer league defeats than Benitez but *overall* benitez had fewer defeats than Hodgson, you would be saying 'why did you only highlight league games when you should look at all games'. It is so transparent.
In any event, I haven't hidden anything about the league form; it is there in black and white in the table. People can see it, can't they?!
Jamie do yourself a favour and give yourself some credibility by being more objective. When doing a statisitical analysis, coming across as pro-Hodgson is just as bas as coming off as pro-Rafa.
this is hilarious. You tell me to be more objective when the figures I've presented are 100% objective! You've made tenuous points driven by your pro-Benitez agenda, and that is obvious. Do you actually have any valid points to make at all?
Whether I have 'credibility' to you or anyone else is irrelevant to me; I'll give m view, and if people don't like it, tough.
And I am not Pro-Hodgson. I've criticised him many times on this site, on the facebook page, and on twitter. I am pro-LFC, and that means supporting the manager in his first 4.5 months in the job. A shocking concept, I know.
What was 'well said' about it? Did you even read what was written or did you just blindly write that without even thinking?
ReplyDeleteBy comparison and I think everyone would agree, Benitez last season was an exception. It was an extremely poor season and you have pounced on this to make Roy better than he is by comparison. I dare you do the stats from the first 23 games from the season before.
ReplyDeleteNo amount of statistics good or bad are needed for me it is simple Roy Hodgson should not be manager of LFC, he was by media reports 3rd choice and he should consider himself to be very lucky to be in the position he is. At present all things taken into consideration i.e.results performances etc including his mistakes (admitted by him) in critisising Benitez and Johnson in public and having to make apologies, he isnt IMO upto the job.
No, Jamie, what he is saying is a completely valid point. I had the same exact opinion. Had you wanted people to form their own opinion why would you need to type 'fewer' in capital letters? Also, in the next point, in which Benitez comes out better, you say 'has only'. Notice how you are downplaying that, and emphasising Hodgson's loss of fewer games? Of course you do. Its called PROPOGANDA. Notice how I used capitals to ram my opinion down your throat too?
ReplyDeleteIf you want to write fairly, drop this style of writing. Its far too obvious what you are doing.
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Wirral Redman - The best way to judge Hodgson on results is to compare with last season. This is obvious; the strength of the league is arguably similar, any many of the same players are playing in all the teams.
ReplyDeleteThe season before last has no relevance here, again for obvious reasons.
Benitez made *dozens* of mistakes during his tenure, including public criticism, public politicking, arguing with Owners/other managers in public. Were you saying he wasn't up to the job then too?
I thought not.
Once again you've proved that you are a brainless Roy supporter by taking Europa league games into account.
ReplyDeleteJust compare the league games you noob.
"The doom and gloom over Liverpool seems to have momentarily subsided after the weekend win over West Ham,<span>"
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West ham were awful. If only they had tried they probably would have earned at least a draw against us.
A win over west ham does not change anything.
No, KB. the stats are the stats. They're in ahuge table. People can an will read them. My analysis constitutes my opinion, and I can present the stats however I choose.
ReplyDeleteI haven't twisted the stats; I've highlighted facts from the table and emphasised those that fit in with the point of my article, which is to illustrate that Hodgson is not doing as badly as everyone says.
If you're a fair-minded person, you'll agree that there's nothing wrong with that.
And moreover we never struggled to score this much under Rafa.
ReplyDeleteI agree Rafa was poor last season but Roy is the Worst!
This is so pointlesslly negative that it's not even worth addressing. You are so desperate tfor Hodgson to fail you can taste it. And when we finish in the top 4, you'll still be coming out with the same baseless stuff. Enjoy!
ReplyDeletealso your table shows that Benitez has won more games than Hodgson, scored more goals and conceded less, an won more away games too. do you ever highlight these points. i doubt you will repsond to this email though and you will put some sort of spin on it and then say if i dont like it dont write. Are you a liverpool fan??
ReplyDeleteNo, I have not contradicted myself at all.
ReplyDeleteWhere exactly have I ever said that 'all my statements are based on fact'?! That is nonsense. You just made that up. The *table* is fact. The analysis is my opinion on the facts. This is obvious.
And once again: Hodgson is 4.5 months into his reign. Benitez had 6 years! Why can't you see the difference? It is perfectly fair to criticise Benitez in his 6th years - he's had enough time and money to get things right. He doesn't deserve any more leniency after that amount of time.
Hodgson on the other hand does deserve time. He's only had 4.5 months for heaven's sake! It is not fair to condemn him after the at amount of time, and if you can't see the difference then that speaks volumes about the fairness of your views.
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ReplyDeleteAs you say you can present them in whichever manner you see fit, however you really don't have a leg to stand on in terms of accusations of bias. Again, nothing wrong with that if you didn't trumpet 'critical realism' etc when clearly it isn't. 'Agenda driven critical realism' yes. And for a bloke who denigrated 'blind faith fandom' not so long ago, you are doing a fine line in it yourself at present.
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lol
ReplyDeleteTrabzonspor Steaua and Napoli are not bad teams????
Scrapping the bottom of the barrell here are we not?
If Trabzonspor finishing 5th in the Turkish league doesn't do it for you don't worry cause Steaua are the most successful team in Romanian history....thanks for that Jaimie i feel so much better knowing we are competing with this calibar of team. I will sleep a lot more easy now.
Except my support of Hodgson is not blind faith. it doesn't matter how many times you say, it won't make it true. I've admitted from day 1 that he should only stay this season; I've said many times that criticism is warranted; I've said that Hodgson is to blame for crap performances etc. If you're afflicted with blind faith you don't say things like that.I didn't even want Hodgson - O'neill was my first choice, and that is well documented.
ReplyDeleteI'm supporting him because he is a manager of Liverpool FC, and deserves the time and patience to try and put his ideas into action.
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ReplyDeleteNo, you actually can't address it because you don't have a leg to stand on. I will really enjoy it if we finish in the top 4 under Hodgson. Club > Individual me. Funny how all your previously held principles in relation to 'soulless football', 'blind faith fandom' and 'critical realism' have all vanished along with the previous manager. It would appear there is a new cult in town, step forward 'In Roy we Trust'. Every single point I made I can stand behind, it is you who wavers like the wind. Hope you had a caveat in that bet of yours stating it was Liverpool who finished top 4, not Liverpool under Roy. First one we have a chance, latter - none.
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I've addressed all those points may times before; I'm not going to repeat myself again. You can wallow in your pointless negaitivity. I hope you enjoy it.
ReplyDelete<span>
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter how many times you defend it, it won't make it false whilst you maintain your current stance. You have been banging a drum about top 4 before the season began with a laughable derivative of previous years to say it was destiny or some such nonsense. When the season starting going t*ts up, you try to downplay it by looking at previous years. Countless articles about performance vs previous management and not ONE solely looking at the smogasboard of errors Roy has committed since in the hot seat. Why are we going to finish in the top 4 we ask? Because you say. You can't legislate for it rationally, how could you after the performances we have had to endure. Blind faith fandom at it's very worst. And to compound matters, you actually agree the bloke won't or shouldn't be here next year anyway. PS O'Neill? And you want freeflowing football?? Martin O'Neill is the epitome of one dimensional football.
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Whereas last year, there was no pointless negativity on your part. You are potentially the biggest hypocrite i have ever encountered. In real life or Planet Internet. Enjoy.
ReplyDeleteIts very simple.
ReplyDeleteRoy has managed in the Premier League for over 3 full seasons. Rafa when he came to Liverpool had never managed in England. If you believe that a manager with 3 years experience in the Premier League doesnt have an advantage over a foreign manger with no experience in the premier league then you are in denial.
Monaco, Deportivo and Olympiacos of 2004/2005 were far superior teams to Napoli, Steau, Trabsanspor, Utrecth. If you believe otherwise you are in denial.
Roy has never won anything of note in his long career. What evidence have you seen that he will buck that trend and change? Rafa on the other hand had won beaten Barca and Real to two Spanish titles and had won the Uefa Cup. He then went on to win the Champions League and FA cup. his track record of success suggests that he will probably win more trophies in his career. Roys doesnt.
Call these "irrelevant soundbytes" all you want, I would prefer to call them facts!
Its very simple.
ReplyDeleteRoy has managed in the Premier League for over 3 full seasons. Rafa when he came to Liverpool had never managed in England. If you believe that a manager with 3 years experience in the Premier League doesnt have an advantage over a foreign manger with no experience in the premier league then you are in denial.
Monaco, Deportivo and Olympiacos of 2004/2005 were far superior teams to Napoli, Steau, Trabsanspor, Utrecth. If you believe otherwise you are in denial.
Roy has never won anything of note in his long career. What evidence have you seen that he will buck that trend and change? Rafa on the other hand had won beaten Barca and Real to two Spanish titles and had won the Uefa Cup. He then went on to win the Champions League and FA cup. his track record of success suggests that he will probably win more trophies in his career. Roys doesnt.
Call these "irrelevant soundbytes" all you want, I would prefer to call them facts!
Its very simple.
ReplyDeleteRoy has managed in the Premier League for over 3 full seasons. Rafa when he came to Liverpool had never managed in England. If you believe that a manager with 3 years experience in the Premier League doesnt have an advantage over a foreign manger with no experience in the premier league then you are in denial.
Monaco, Deportivo and Olympiacos of 2004/2005 were far superior teams to Napoli, Steau, Trabsanspor, Utrecth. If you believe otherwise you are in denial.
Roy has never won anything of note in his long career. What evidence have you seen that he will buck that trend and change? Rafa on the other hand had won beaten Barca and Real to two Spanish titles and had won the Uefa Cup. He then went on to win the Champions League and FA cup. his track record of success suggests that he will probably win more trophies in his career. Roys doesnt.
Call these "irrelevant soundbytes" all you want, I would prefer to call them facts!
Jamie,
ReplyDeleteIt is not fair to conclude teams strength with their "history" as in case of steaua.U urself have told this many a times and by that scale they will be much much weaker(not even liable for comparison) than liverpool(18 league,5 champ league,uefa cup,league cups,fa cups etc).You should have been presenting arguments with facts from present and not past.
SACK him we dont need him
ReplyDelete<span>Jamie,
ReplyDeleteIt is not fair to conclude teams strength with their "history" as in case of steaua.U urself have told this many a times and by that scale they will be much much weaker(not even liable for comparison) than liverpool(18 league,5 champ league,uefa cup,league cups,fa cups etc).You should have been presenting arguments with facts from present and not past.<span>
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ReplyDelete<p><span>Another take on Results is Roy's Liverpool would be joint 9th with Newcastle in Rafa's 2004-05 maiden season while Rafa's maiden 2004-05 Liverpool would be 5th ahead of Bolton rather than in 9<sup>th</sup> place, one place and one point ahead of Newcastle in 2010-11 season but Newcastle back then were arguably a seasoned premier league side than a promoted side this season. </span>
</p><p><span>That's the effect of that 4 point differential you are dismissing as hardly amounting to much. What also counts against the current side is that Roy being English and having managed in the premiership before taking over at Liverpool presumably should be familiar with tactics employed hence be tactically astute enough to know how to approach different games but he has basically come out defending his style and stating he sees no need to change since he is respected in Europe for what he has done for many years.</span>
</p><p><span>If we go on to win the Europa title, all the wins in that tournament will look great but comparing achievements so far to a champions league season Liverpool ultimately brought the title home is similar to dismissing United's title win in 2008-09 because they only finished 4 points ahead of Liverpool.</span>
</p><p><span>If ultimately Liverpool finish higher than 5th, then Roy would have our respect but we can only go by what we see now. He was brought in to </span><span>stabilise</span><span> or improve but to date the boat has been rocked such that every game alters the stats dramatically.</span>
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That's what made him so special Jaimie.
ReplyDeletePublic criticism - Ur doing the same thing as well. Else you go unnoticed coz there're so many like you around. You try to demarcate urself.
But we must also agree sometimes when u overdo, you cut your own nose to swipe ur face. But u tried.
Hodgson wants to play safe everytime. He wears a condom on his head.
Yes - criticism on a website is the same as public criticism by a manager of his players.
ReplyDelete<p><span>
ReplyDelete<p>
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</p><p><span>It’s also worth noting after 14 games the poorer sides in 2004-05 you mentioned were placed as follows:<span> </span></span>
</p><p><span> </span>
</p><p><span>Middlesbrough<span> </span>4<sup>th </sup><span> </span>25points<span> </span>Blackburn<span> </span>7<sup>th </sup><span> </span>23points, Charlton<span> </span>10<sup>th</sup> 18points ,Fulham<span> </span>13<sup>th</sup> <span> </span>14 points, Birmingham<span> </span>14<sup>th</sup> <span> </span>13points, Crystal Palace<span> </span>16<sup>th</sup> 11points, Norwich<span> </span>18<sup>th</sup> 11points, West Brom<span> </span>19<sup>th</sup> 10points, Blackburn <span> </span>20<sup>th</sup> 10points</span>
</p><p><span><span> </span></span>
<span><span>Comparable sides we have played in the 2010-11 season after the same number of games are as follows </span></span>
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<span><span>Sunderland <span> </span><span> </span>7<sup>th</sup><span> </span>20points ,Stoke<span> </span>8<sup>th</sup><span> </span>19points, Blackburn<span> </span>11<sup>th</sup><span> </span>18points, Blackpool <span> </span>12<sup>th</sup><span> </span>18points, Everton<span> </span>14<sup>th</sup> 16points, Birmingham <span> </span>14<sup>th</sup><span> </span>16points, West Brom<span> </span>14<sup>th</sup><span> </span>16points, Wigan<span> </span>18<sup>th</sup> <span> </span>14points, West Ham<span> </span><span> </span>20th [...]
Jamie you have stated you prefered Martin O'neill, Whats he upto these days??? Probably wondering how the hell Roy Hodgson is still at Liverpool and he is not. Roy as a manager cannot compete with other managers in the transfer market, untill we get someone that has the respect, profile and world class rating we will play second fiddle to your Mourinho's, Ferguson's,Wengers etc. Hodgson does well in lower leagues where he is regarded as one of the best managers in that league. We have seen it when high profile managers take over smaller clubs and bring them up. Fact is Roy is not as good as other managers in the league, this will reflect in his signings, team performance, tactics. We would all love the fat kid to win the 100m but why doesnt he? he aint good enough!!! Roy hodgson is the fat kid!!
ReplyDeleteHere we go:
ReplyDeleteAt least you've pulled one worm out of Hogdson's nose. That's good.
Roy is not for us. He was brought in to rescue a sinking ship. So let him do his job for now, he'll get thrown out of the ship anyway.
I'm getting tired of this foolish analysis now. Jaimie, I'm sorry pal but you know very little about valid analysis. You even have the cheek to call your site after the Kop, when 90% of the Kop backed Rafa and don't rate Woy.
ReplyDeleteI could go on about all the obvious flaws but they have already been mentioned; CL vs. Europa, PL experience etc. However the fundamental flaw in all your arguments is that there is no level of expectancy with which to judge each managers performance.
It is a simple fact that Rafa took 5th/4th place ageing team that was playing anti-football and won the CL. When all that was expected was the 4th place finish (that he effectively achieved) and perhaps a cup run (that he also achieved in the league cup), not to mention a better style and better players (again, achieved).
Compare this to what Woy has done. They may have finished 7th last year (with more points that took 4th in 2004) but finished 2nd the year before. Liverpool were still ranked 5th best in Europe and 3rd best in the Premiership, because Jaimie in order to calculate realistic levels of expectation you do not take one year out of the trend, when all sorts of things can happen in a year. It happens in all walks of life, disasters occur one year, then normality returns. Do we suddenly start walking around saying "Why aren't more people dying" or "we have significantly reduced the death rate?" No Jaimie. We take a pooled average and the long term trend and take into account confounding factors. Roy, with nowhere near as many injuries, wrong red cards, beachballs, and odious owners to deal with, has taken a team that played dominant possession, high scoring, winning football that should be on target for 3rd place at least and had them in the bottom half for most of the season, on target to finish 7th or 8th.
Mathematically, his start in the league was significantly different to what had come before.
It was always going to be the case that the team would get over last season and return to normality. There may have even been a case for getting rid of Rafa, but by appointing an at best 7th place maager - they board have sealed our fate.
It is also the case that the rate of points won during Rafa's last two seasons was an improvement on his first 4, so I still don't see where you get all this "went backwards" rubbish from.
And never mind the Europa League. The man who took Alaves to the UEFA Cup final (were you a Liverpool fan then?) has a similar record to Woy, but most people cannot identify a picture of him. Should he have got the job as well? Besides, you may not have noticed but Woy has got to two finals before - by playing the same defensive rubbish that he plays in the league - 0-0's and 0-1's away from home then 1-0's and 1-1's at home. And that's just the rubbish teams he should be beating 5-0. The point is he gets to the final but then gets found out because he forgot to practice attacking football, which Liverpool have needed in basically every single final they have ever played in, with the possible exception of Souness's lucky run in 1992.
Speaking of which have you compared Woy's Liverpool career, and indeed career, to Graeme Souness's?
It is MUCH more comparable to Woy's than Benitez's.
SIGNIFICANTLY so.
If you want to see proper analysis join the group above.
mate,
ReplyDeletefirstly - ur wording along with the statistics shows an opinion, which is fair enough - but it beggars belief - 4 points are important, rafa just came into the premiership, now knowing the league, the fans, etc etc, roy does, hes got no excuse...he should know how to beat teams away from home ...he doesnt ...so stop defending him, when hes done a poor job...
and SECONDLY....dont tell others here there not real fans....u buggered off remember, and stopped supporting liverpool for some reason....true fan...my arse
This group: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Roy-Hodgson-is-Officially-the-worst-manager-LFC-have-ever-had/159042870784083
ReplyDeleteWTF - if you want your posts to stay on the site then leave out the derogratory comments, and stop disrespecting the manager by calling him 'Woy.
ReplyDeletePosts that denigrate managers/players in a personal manner are not welcome on this site.
And if you're tired of 'foolish analysis' then go elsewhere.
Do you call that a valid response Jaimie?
ReplyDeleteGrow a pair and try and try and learn something from the feedback that you are getting. What difference does it make that I've called him Woy? Try debating rather than defending, or threatening to ignore us. The same goes for "Roy".
I mean where do you honestly think you can go with this? What happpens when 4 points becomes 8 becomes 12?
Which season are you going to compare it to then?
Perhaps if "Roy" finishes 5th you will compare him to Bob Paisley because there was a Royal Wedding that year too?
To see why Martin O'Neill doesn't have the credentials either, or to get the lowdown on other candidates: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Roy-Hodgson-is-Officially-the-worst-manager-LFC-have-ever-had/159042870784083
ReplyDeleteNice to see you have officially agreed that your analysis is flawed and that Roy is the worst manager we've ever had by deleting my comment, you chicken.
ReplyDeleteJust to summarise, Jaimie thinks that if the words "foolish" or "woy" are included in a post that is just cause to delete it.
ReplyDeleteHmm......I think it was the fact that you got butchered you sad little man.
WTF - I'm just not interested in having posters like you here. When you've learned to debate in a civil manner then I'll undo your ban. Attack the argument, not the person. Anything you post now will be held for moderation, and if you adhere to the commen policy I will make your comments live.
ReplyDeleteYes Well Said !!! Mister Navin !!
ReplyDeleteComparissson first 23 Jaimie Kanwar articles of this season with first 23 of last season. They are all the same old tired sh1t. do you use a template to write these? This site has slipped
ReplyDeleteSuck it real good !!!!
ReplyDeleteJamie, results are results? The quality of the the Champions League teams played by Benitez in the first 3 months of his season did comprise of structurally better competition than that of the Europa league. If Liverpool were in the Champions League, I really don't think Hodsgon would have played his econd string as much as he did in the Europa League. Saying the Champions League is better than the Europa League is as obvious as saying the English Premiership is better than Swiss League. This is pretty much taken as a truism. Making examples would just be superflous and a waste of time. I did make a mistake in pointing out the number of games played. You were right 23 each. Observe, this is how you acknowledge when you're wrong. For my other points, your bits are in bold, and my responses are in plain text.
ReplyDeleteIt is absolutely CORRECT to state that Hodgson has lost fewer games than Benitez in his first 23. Why should I highlight just the league? basically, you want me to highlight anything that puts Benitez in a better light. Jamie, didn't I tell you before about comparing variables with like variables. For example, if a team won the Champions League 5 times, and another team won the Europa League 5 times, does that mean the latter achievement is of equal quality because trophies are trophies? Of course not. I really don't care if Rafa is put in a bad light.In any event, I haven't hidden anything about the league form; it is there in black and white in the table. People can see it, can't they?! I never said you hid it. I said what you highlighted was not even handed. I am not pro-Rafa. Casting me in that light still does not add weight to the objectivity needed in your extrapolations.
Whether I have 'credibility' to you or anyone else is irrelevant to me; I'll give m view, and if people don't like it, tough.
So then why take the trouble to produce a blog? And I am not Pro-Hodgson. I've criticised him many times on this site, on the facebook page, and on twitter. I am pro-LFC, and that means supporting the manager in his first 4.5 months in the job. A shocking concept, I know.Others can be supportive of LFC if they think the manager is not up to scratch. People criticising his tactical approach to games is a valid concern, and a fair indicator of what level he could take the team to. Maybe others can see enough of what you can't to opine that Hodgson may not be good enough. By the way, I would also have very mixed emotions of Rafa returning to Liverpool. I would feel better about a Hiddink, Pelligrini, even Harry Redknapp so casting me as pro-Rafa is really misrepresentative of my position.
What purpose does this article serve? What a weird number of games to pick as a comparison - 23 games???
ReplyDeleteYou blithely dismiss the fact that Rafa was in Champion's League and Roy is in Europa league. We beat top European sides in Rafa's first few months, not the piffle we're up against in Europa league, able to put reserve teams out
On 15/09/2004 we beat Champion's League runners up in 2004, Monaco 2-0
On 03/11/2004 we beat Champion's League Semi Finalists in 2004, Deportivo La Coruna away from home 1-0
Roy beat most successful Romanian side in history etc. Give it a rest
Forget about Rafa, you have serious issues with him, I know you have to post something but get over it, he's gone
Fair enough that you want to give Roy time. We are in transitional period anyway so he has nothing to lose
Any self respecting Liverpool fan wants us to get 4th spot regardless of loyalty to manager etc, but we are very lucky to be within touching distance of 4th now due to mini collapse of other teams and contraction of the league
"This makes no difference whatsoever. Results are results, and the quality of the Euro teams played by Benitez in the first 3 months of the season is not massively higher than the quality of the teams played by Hodgson. If it is, explain why, with concrete examples"IT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteOn 15/09/2004 we beat <span>Champion's League runners up in 2004</span>, Monaco 2-0
On 03/11/2004 we beat <span>Champion's League Semi Finalists in 2004</span>, Deportivo La Coruna away from home 1-0
Would it not be fair to compare the results against West Brom & Blackpool with the results against Birmingham & Burnley the season before??
ReplyDeleteIf so, Roy would be -3 (rather than -2) compared to Liverpool's tally in 2009-10
Simon - how is it a weird number of games? That's how many games have been played so far this season. Also, one third of the league season has now passed, i.e. 14 games.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you don't like articles about Benitez then don't come to this site. Don't read them and don't post comments. If I want to write about Benitez, I will, and if you or anyone else doesn't like it then you know what the solution is.
Actually Jamie its not irrelevant, you said 4 points and that's what we lost by, if you tell me at the end of the season 4 points doesn't matter - then your well and truly misguided, premier leagues are won and lost on 1 or 2 games, yet you are happy to stress that Hodgson has lost fewer games than Rafa, but not that Rafahas 4 more points that Roy at this point of the season. Also this argument of Rafa first season is true, ask any pundit, the game play here is far more physical and faster than Spain. In Spain its Technical, here its Physical.... a BIG difference mate...
ReplyDeleteHe had to adapt his way of managing the teams way of playing and hence thats why you saw LFC in the CL every season since, bar last year and with the shoe string budget he had to deal with.... he did a remarkable job.
You can give Roy 5 years at LFC and i will bet that Roy cant get LFC consistently playing CL football, or challenging for the title & thats with club stability with new owners and possibly money to spend.... substantial differences.
Please carry on with the stats, but please can you ensure you dont alienate all the LFC fans out there by dismissing Rafa so easily......
Yes, I guess that would be fair. So it's -3 instead of -2. Big deal. It's November, not May.
ReplyDeleteRafa has a win rate over 50% during his career. At Liverpool it was 55%.
ReplyDeleteRoy has a win rate around 40% during his career. At Liverpool it is around 40%.
All you are doing is comparing one of Rafa's lower percentaged runs to the average of Roy, when you should be comparing both averages. Or better still the latter part of Rafa's spell that is more relevant to this team that Roy has inherited.
If you really wanted to compare Rafa's worst run.........compare it to Roy's worst run. Games against Man U, Man C, Everton, Arsenal, Sunderland, Birmingham, Chelsea and Fulham effectively got Rafa the sack last season. It is the only time Rafa has ever looked as bad a manager as Roy, yet they appoint somebody who is only capable of something WORSE???????Consistently???????
In roughly the same games, with Chelsea and Fulham replaced by WEST BROM AND BLACKPOOL, Roy achieved even LESS, and he didn't have anywhere near the injuries, red cards or beachballs.
Roy is rubbish. Rafa wasn't . FACT.
Jamie, I love the way you put the facts together in easy to understand tables. Under Benitez according to the table we would be sitting in 5th position in the prem. Don't know exactly what position we were in the league after 14 games 09-10 season but I don't remember sitting in 9th.
ReplyDeleteBenitez inherited a much poorer team in the 04-05 season than the team Hodgson inherited.
I personally don't think Hodgson is the right man for the job at Anfield, and he never inspires me with any confidence during a game, especially as he always seems to be rubbing his face and looking confused, he hasn't adhered himself to the fans with his nonchalant comments.
YNWA
Fair enough, you can compare
ReplyDeleteIs debate permitted here?
We have new owners, new management, new recruitment structure, new ethos yet this website harps on about Rafa in a lot of articles. Where does that get us? Comparing how each manager performs against one who ultimately failed is, in my opinion, utterly daft
Rafa's main task as manager was to win the Premier League, he came close but not good enough
You said that you wanted a concrete example of the strength of Rafa's european opponents, beating 2 of the previous year's top 4 teams in first few months of his reign seems like a pretty good feat to me
Can you accept my answer to your previous challenge below?
"This makes no difference whatsoever. Results are results, and the quality of the Euro teams played by Benitez in the first 3 months of the season is not massively higher than the quality of the teams played by Hodgson. <span>If it is, explain why, with concrete examples</span>"
My concrete example
On 15/09/2004 we beat <span>Champion's League runners up in 2004</span>, Monaco 2-0
On 03/11/2004 we beat <span>Champion's League Semi Finalists in 2004</span>, Deportivo La Coruna away from home 1-0<span></span>
My main criticism of Hodgson is that he is too similar in style to Benitez. Same negative tactics. With different personnel and player injuries, it is difficult to compare the starts made by either manager. I do believe, however, that Hodgson has started off with a better squad of players than Benitez had. Hodgson has 4 points fewer than Benitez had after 14 games and I think he let 3 of those 4 points slip away with poor performances against Wigan and Stoke. They should have been looking at 4 points for those two games, not one. Saying that, it being the season after a World Cup seems to have led to the lower teams being more competitive than usual. I think that will reduce as the season progresses. The main problem, however, is what I see on the pitch and I do not believe that Hodgson is getting the best of what is at his disposal, but then neither was Benitez last season. Which is why I think that, more than new players, the club needed to find a manager with a completely different approach to the last one, not simply bring in a slightly less successful, cheaper version. O'Neill would have had the team showing a bit more passion from day one, and I reckon the team would have that 4 points that Hodgson is lacking had they brought in a motivator who is not more interested in picking fights with ex managers and slating his players in public.
ReplyDeleteRead well. Where do you see Woy. Ur tired go to sleep.
ReplyDeleteUr down by 5-0. Here even Roy will do better.
ReplyDeleteYes trabonzspar, steau and Napoli are strong teams.... but not when compared to liverpool!
ReplyDeleteBut Rafa had a shitty team, while Roy had a good team made by Rafa.
ReplyDeletekanwar !! come to daddy !!
ReplyDeleteWith this kind of twisted tosh, you should be writing for the S*n. You clearly don't have a clue. and you need to sort out the figures in your tables which are as bad as the ones in the Sunday Times a few weeks back when they were trying to mount a defence of the LMA manager of the year.
ReplyDeleteDid he reply ?? I guess not!!! Im sure he has ignored it......... LOL
ReplyDeleteWell Wisher, for better or for worse, I doubt that Roy will last beyond Xmas. If he does, it will be because Liverpool are in the top-5 places by then, which may convince NESV (or Fenway Sports Group as I believe they are now called) to give him some time.
ReplyDeleteJust to add some more perspective on this.
ReplyDeleteRoy has accumulated 1.27 points per game so far this season.
To reach 63 points (i.e. where Benitez finished last season), he will need to accumulate 1.91 points this season. That is a 50% IMPROVEMENT from where we are now today. In my opinion, that is a big ask. And that doesnt even get us into a CL spot.
BLINDLY supporting the manager does not seem a very logical or sensible thing to be doing.