1 Jun 2010

Yossi Benayoun: Yet another victim of the 'BENITEZ EFFECT'

With his unfortunate man-management skills, Rafa Benitez has misused and/or alienated a whole host of players during his reign, including Peter Crouch, Sami Hyypia, John Arne Riise, Stephen Warnock, Robbie Keane, Yossi Benayoun, Ryan Babel, Xabi Alonso, Albert Riera and Alberto Aquilani. With his transfer to Chelsea seemingly imminent, Benayoun is the latest player to finally succumb to the ‘Benitez Effect’, which means the loss of yet another important player.

Benitez Effect (noun) – Negligent misuse of - and/or - alienation of Liverpool FC football players (to the detriment of the team), resulting in demotivation, recrimination and, ultimately, a desire to (prematurely) leave the club.

Characteristics of the 'Benitez Effect' can include some or all of the following:

* Inexplicably (and regularly) being dumped on the bench.
* Inexplicably (and regularly) being substituted for no good reason.
* Inexplicably (and regularly) being dropped after scoring/creating goals.
* Regularly being sidelined despite having a consistent positive impact.
* Regularly being played out of position.

* Never being given a fair run in the team. Consequently:
* Not being allowed to build an effective understanding with team-mates.
* Being treated shabbily at the end of an LFC career (i.e. Riise/Hyypia)
* Occasionally being subject to unfair public criticism.
* Regularly being ignoring in favour of Benitez's on-field yes-men - i.e. 'athletes' who run 50 miles a game; do what they're told to the letter but contribute next no nothing for large stretches of the season.

At the beginning of last season, I highlighted how Benayoun was being mishandled, and at the end of the article, I wrote:

If Benitez continues to treat Benayoun with such disdain I have no doubt that, like Alonso, he will leave in the summer.

Look what's happening now: Benayoun - a skillful, technically gifted, hugely experienced player - is almost certain to leave Anfield.

I’ve written about the 'Benitez Effect' many times before in great detail. Examples:

Alonso: The alienation of Xabi Alonso by the demoralizer, Rafa Benitez...

Keane: I'm sorry, Rafa, but Robbie Keane's failure at Liverpool is mostly down to you

Crouch: PETER CROUCH: Suffering the effects of the 'Benitez Effect'

Aquilani: The 'BENITEZ EFFECT' strikes again! (and this time it only took 4 months)

Babel: RYAN BABEL: Yet another victim of the 'Benitez Effect'

Benayoun: Yossi Benayoun - Feeling the full force of the 'Benitez Effect'

I've further explained how Benitez has misused Benayoun in this article, so I won't go over the same things again now.

Like so many others before him, Benayoun obviously cannot stomach another season of being regularly dumped on the bench/subbed off whilst the likes of Lucas and Kuyt are perennial starters despite contributing nothing for large stretches of the season.

How many more good quality players must be alienated by Benitez to the detriment of the team? Just imagine how much stronger our squad would've been last season if some or all of the following players had still been at the club:

Alonso, Keane, Hyypia, Crouch, Warnock, Riise.

Benayoun is a top quality player, and he's proved this over and over again. He reminds me of LFC legend Peter Beardsley, and if Benitez didn't have such an aversion to creativity and actually utilised him *properly*, Benayoun could've have a Beardsley-like impact for Liverpool.

Alas, with Benitez's preference for stamina, strength and defensiveness over guile, creativity and individuality, it wasn't meant to be.

Another one bites the dust. Who will be next?


  1. Please abide by the comment policy or your comment will be deleted: http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2007/10/comment-policy.html

  2. Good article Jamie, I wonder though why it is the players in the list and not others ? Could they be more sensitive and need more ' Cuddles '
    The one player I think would flourish with the right man management is Babel, he is the sort of player that would go to say Villa and he would realise his potential ?
    Can you not argue though that the benetiz affect works the other way ? Taking relative unknowns and making them better players ? Skrtel, Agger, Ngog, etc ?
    I hope Danny Pacheo doesnt come foul to the BE
    Take it easy

  3. Spreading the hate again i see. I have to say the last few articles have been quite balanced and interresting but this seems to be pure nonsence.

    I guess you have spoken to <span>Benayoun and thus can prove that your view is correct and i am also sure you can show the evidence! ;) </span>

    With articles like this how can you ever say you do not push an agenda in other articles is beyond me, even if they seem to be balanced.

    Is Rafa perfect? no, no where near, but is any manager/person?

    I think many people forget that for 2 of the 5 seasons Alonso was poor (including the one where Rafa wanted to sell him and replace him with Barry, what i saw as good business). 1 season he was average and 2 seasons he was very good. It is just a testament to Alonso that even when he knew he wasn't wanted he put in a fantastic season. We all knew he had class he just couldn't show it on a consistant level over 5 seasons.

    Crouch didn't want play second fiddle to Torres and i can not blame him. Lets be honest if there is one striker position and Torres was fit we would all want Torres to play. I love Crouch and would love him at Liverpool but i understand why he wanted to leave.

    Keane was not good enough and was a very poor buy, i am glad we sold him for a bit of money even Redknapp doesn't fancy him.

    Warnock wasn't up to the level needed when he was at the club and has matured very well, not sure i would like to see him back though.

    Riise, gave good service to the club but was also past it.

    Hyypia is a legend, but to be honest he wasn't going to play alot of football and that was probably for the best, so he decided to go play at a level which suited him, fair play, i hope he comes back and coaches.

    So i don't really see the "Rafa effect" here, i just see players with ambitions Liverpool could not fulfill as we had better players.

    It is strange that next to no player after leaving the club has come out and slated Rafa, maybe he isn't such a bad guy. Just my opinion ofcourse.

  4. I would also like to add, even though i seem to be quite negative towards you Jamie, this is by far one of the better sites on this interweb. Always good for debate!

  5. Nickname - I'm not interested in your opinion on my approach, or whether you think I'm balanced or not.  if you want to debat the issues I raise, do so.  If you want to bitch about me, I'll just delete your post as per the comment policy.  I've edited the pointless stuff out - if you want to purse it further, email me.

  6. Let's hope Rafa stays for many years to come.

    Heaven knows what will happen to Jamie if he doesn't have Benitez to obsess over.

    Getting a life is over rated anyway.

  7. Jaimie

    Thanks for this article but you are going to get comments about all of the above mentioned players leaving the club not because of Benitez but because of blah blah blah and every other excuse under the sun and they will just cover Benitez up in a soft warm blanket.

    Another player is Albert Reira, our only Natural winger and he is probably moving on soon as well.

    Hail Rafael Benitez!!! He cant do anything wrong but can do onto others as he pleases and gets away with it time after time after time. 

  8. Nickname - you're entitled to your view on those players b ut you've just come out with the same typical cliches re those players (i.e Alonso was apparrently poor for 2 seasons?! Nonsense).  I've explained in great detail - with examples - why Benitez has alienated these players (in the links I provided).

    And your point about players not saying stuff in public doesn't wash - they are professionals; they're not going to slag off their manager in public, even after they've left.  It rarely happens.  having said that, many of the players on the list *have* made public comments criticising Benitez indirectly.  Again, I've highllighted this in the articles I've linked too.

  9. Jamie, 
    Good Write up. I also think that it is Benitez dour defensive attitude to every game (eg.playing 2 holding mids at home) that force players like Benayoun to think out of the box. He dislikes this. What worres me more is that nobody is talking about Benayouns replacement. They say Simao - but whats the point of selling Benayoun for 10 and getting Simao for 8-9, what have you achieved. It cannot be because he wants out and out wingers. We don't have any strikers except for Torres so why buy Wingers ? Anyways on another note , I still see people like John ALridge saying that Liverpool are paying 100K a day in Debt. They have not seen the accounts and discected them. Maybe its time you wrote an open letter to the echo. Keep up the good work Jamie. 

  10. Thanks for your comments.

    I'm sure there are Benitez fans who could argue the other way, and that's fine.  I don't think you can though.

    I don't agree that he has made Agger, Srtel and Ngog better players.  Agger, in my view, has not improved as much as he should've in the last 3 years; Skrtel had a nightmare season last year (as did the whole defence, including Agger); Ngog is no great shakes.  He's always going to improve when playing with top quality players like Torres/Gerrard - I don't think Benitez has had a positive impact on him.  I'd be interested to hear how you think he's made a difference with these players though.

  11. Whether or not Benayoun does want to leave or not, it is very hard to argue against the fact that Rafa has not used him in the team correctly. He consistently uses him on the left where he is ineffective - Yossi has always been a right sided player. Rafa also subs him when there are other players that should be taken off before him.

    I certainly do not agree with everything Jamie says, but on this occasion he is quite right about the 'misuse' of Yossi. Whether there is such a thing as the Benitez effect is debatable, but I agree that Yossi could have had a Beardsley type effect had his talents been used correctly. I do not blame him for wanting to leave, if in fact that is the case.

  12. Max stop being such a sheep. 

    These are not excuses. They are simple realities. You need to get over your hatred to our manager as its making you delusional. 

    Grow up. 

  13. Damn - I forgot Riera!  Another prime example.  I'll add his name to the list.

    You're right, Max.  The stats and the general treatme of the players I've listed (plus their own comments) proves that they want out because of Benitez.  You also have to ask the question: if Benitez is such a great manager, why over the years have so many good players wanted to leave?

  14. Mark - please stop posting derogatory comments about other posters.  If you disagree, argue your points and *explain* why you disagree. (I've edited your post)

  15. Come on Jamie, we all know he had two poor seasons. Living over seas i don't get to see many games, but i watch every game in glorious HD and i know he was not up to standard for the 2 middle seasons. Barry at that time was by far the better option. Saying that Alonso had/has much more potential than Barry and showed it in his final season, it is a shame he is gone and all the damage was done during the period he wasn't as good as what he should have been.

    Just because they are cliches does not mean they are correct. I look at your arguments and all i see is media hype cliches. I can give you that players are pros and probably wouldn't say anything bad about Rafa but i have also seen examples of them saying good things about him, why would they do this if they do not believe it?

    I have also been baffeled by selectons and teams tactics but you have to take the good with the bad as with every manager. Maybe if we didn't have Rafa, Gerrard would have left and we would never have signed Torres

  16. "It is strange that next to no player after leaving the club has come out and slated Rafa, maybe he isn't such a bad guy. Just my opinion ofcourse."

    Given that Riera and Pennant seem to be the only ex-players to slate benitez,  is it not strange that evidence from those 2 insiders hasn't been used to support the "Benitez effect" hypothesis?

    I don't really see the "benitez effect" from the evidence in the article - the only people it will convinced are those who have already made up their mind imo.

    This is because a) we could create an equally conclusive list of players who have improved under Benitez (torres, gerrard, mascherano, alonso, crouch being just a few of them) and b) We could Find+Replace the word "Benitez" with "Ferguson" and come up with players that have left/been forced out of  ManU and done well at other clubs...

  17. Mark - they are excuses.  Those who support Benitez will onviously refuse to accept the truth, just as you are doing.  if so many top quality players want to leave the club, there has to be a reason.  You then examine how these players were treated by Benitez, and a very discernible pattern emerges. 

    And it is NOT hatred of Benitez - that's just a way for pro-Benitez fans to belittle the opinion of those who don't have faith in the manager.  It is not personal at all; the word 'hatred' implies a personal problem with Benitez.

    My problem with him - and I'm sure it's the same for Max - is his managerial approach.  It has nothing to do with Benitez the man, and to suggest that is just a simplistic, inaccurate way of looking at iut.

    I vehemently disagree with the way Benitez managers Liverpool and handles certain players.

  18. Hi Prakash - I totally agree with you.  If Benitez had handled Benayoun better, he wouldn't want to leave, and the team would be benfiting from his skill and creativity.  Now, we have to replace him.  if Simao comes in (I don't rate him), then he'll have to adapt to the premier league, which could take a whole season. Meanwhile, Benayoun will be doing the business for Chelsea, who won't have to worry about him settling in to the league.

  19. <span>It seems hypocritical (no offence) to be so critical of a manager when he would be better in any aspect of management than you. In my view Rafa is definitely in the top 15 managers now and unless we can get someone better we should hang onto him. The good thing about you is that you're not an idiot with your criticism. You’re an independent thinker and you don't come up with usual drivel e.g. zonal marking</span>

  20. on what basis are we to believe that benayoun is leaving?? the same story went around in Jan & he never left....

  21. Oh please.  media hype cliches?  Hardly anyone in the media uses the same arguments as me, so that's not even possible.  Over the years, I have repeatedly highlighted the Benitez Effect, and provided countless examples to support it.  No one else in the media has done that.

    You, perhaps, need to stop being so naive.  Players say good things about their manager in public for a reason.  They have an ulterior  motive; can't you see that?  They want to stay on the good side of the manager thus praising him in public is one way to do this.  Furthermore, when they are asked a direct question, the safest thing to do is praise the manager, is it not?  Isn't that the logical thing to do, especially if you want to keep your place in the team It would be career suicide to criticise Benitez in public, as certain players have discovered.

  22. "why over the years have so many good players wanted to leave?"

    the best players to leave in recent years and the reasons:

    crouch: higher wages and more playing time
    bellamy: aggressive, negative influence
    arbeloa: higher wages
    alonso: same as arbeloa + gareth barry saga (benitez and parry being fools).
    hyypia: didn't like being 4th choice.

    i cant think of any others right now... can you(Jaimie)?

    Alonso's departue will always look like a big mistake because his last season was probably his best. I don't think rafa can be blamed for too many of those.

  23. Its amazing how when a media article praises Benitez you will come out and bash it and prove it wrong with your jibberish.

    When another media story comes out with no facts what-so-ever, you jump on it like a bandwagon fan who has never seen Anfield.

    Like I said in my deleted comment, let Rafa stay for a good few more years yet. If it irks you, and those that think like you, the better.

  24. FAO of 'Lets'a all laugh at kanwar' - You're aware that all your posts are automatically deleted, right?  That none of them go live?  Keep wasting your time though ;)

  25. Damien - benayoun said it himself, so I'm inclined to believe him.  he said recently:

    "'Ancelotti wants me for next season and now everything depends on Liverpool. Chelsea will have to pay some £6m but I believe that in the end I'll be moving there.'

    Evidence enough?

  26. I was refferring to players that had already left the club. To be honest i am not naive and resent you even suggesting that.

    Just because you have for years been backing the whole Benitez effect theory doesn't mean it is true. I have been saying for years buying a house in 2007 was a good idea doesn't make me a financial guru.

    Many players leave clubs during a managers reign some do go on and do better, i would suggest that not many leave Liverpool and go on and be better.

  27. Crouch - Wanted Guarentee of !st team football would only get that at somewhere like portsmouth and he loves Harry. Sold on Great bit of business by Rafa

    hyypia - Was offered another year but someone else offered him 2 years at his age who wouldnt take it

    Riise - Had to go for his part in the Bellamy incident

    Warnock - Never good enough and still isnt.

    keane - Will agree although Keane did have a massive dip in form just as he signed for us

    Yossi - Is he all that ? Looks like a world beater one minute and awful the next, cant blame Rafa for using him sparingly

    Babel - This lad has been given every opportunity to show he can make it in the prem but he never grasps the opportunity. No manager can afford to continually play a player whose form not only changes from game to game but changes from minute to minute

    Riera - Looked great when he arrived got injured and never recaputered his form complained at being left out. Does he want us to play him when he is playing way below the form we know he is capable of. Dont think so

    Alonso - Had a shocking 2007/08 Season and Rafa tried to sign Barry didnt work out and Alonso then had great 2008/09 season but had a titty lip on because of the Barry saga. Not Rafas fault he left.

    Aqualani - Did enough to suggest he has skill still at the club and will be next year

    I have stated time and again that I am not a Rafa apologist. it is probably time for a change but to simply blame him off the back of some inaccurate Daily Mail reporting is bad form.

  28. Is Jamie Kanwar a product of the Hicks & Gillett PR department.

    Now that's a question we'd all like the answer to.

  29. Crouch: repeatedly dumped on the bench/subbed despite being LFC's top scorer in the league and CL.  Dumped on the bench for CL final.  Never given a fair run in the team after his first season.  Unfairly criticised in public by Benitez. inexpicably ignored in favour of the likes of Kuyt and Zenden.  He left to play more, but only because Benitez did not allow him to play, even though we *needed* him.

    Alonso: Alienated by Benitez during the pursuit for Gareth Barry.  Alonso even admitted in public he left because of Benitez:


    Hyypia: Club legend; superb European performer.  Dropped from the CL squad in 2008, yet Degen and Voronin were included (!).  Punblicly admitted this disappointed him.  Left 6 months later.  Plus, he was given an insulting 5 minutes at the end of his final game, a game that was utterly meaningless in terms of league finish.  Read between the lines: he left because of how Benitez treated him.

  30. Incorrect Jaimie. Again.

    I have a balanced point of view. I take into account both sides of the argument. I can understand why Benitez isn't favoured in some quarters but you and max are irrational, ignore others opinions and make unfair and untrue arguments in your quest to oust him as our manager. 

    this is your site and what you believe is your prerogative and is up to you. 

    The reason why nearly every article on this site turns into a Benitez debate is quite frankly because you have such a one sided view so people naturally become defensive.

    I dont believe that everything RB does should be applauded. He has his faults but you and max have no objectivity or perspective.

    You both also have an exceptionally patronising way of putting your points across whether valid or not.

    "t<span>hanks for this article but you are going to get comments about all of the above mentioned players leaving the club not because of Benitez but because of blah blah blah and every other excuse under the sun and they will just cover Benitez up in a soft warm blanket"</span>

    this being an example. 

    Its inflammatory, unreasonable and dismissive of others opinions when in reality i'd be surprised if max knew his arse from his elbow. 

    Be more objective, understanding of 'the other sides' opinions and you wont get the irrational right v left benitez debate that EVERY article descends into. 

    That is a simple truth although I enjoy reading the messages posted on this site it could be alot more balanced. 

  31. I could go on, but what's the point?  People will still blindly argue that Benitez is not to blame.  Anyway, everything is in the articles I've posted links to above.  I'm not going to repeat myself over and over.  Anyone fair-minded person examining these situations objectively will come to the conclusion that Benitez's suspect man-management 'skills' have alienated lots of players over the years, and consequently left us with a weak squad (see last season)

  32. I haven't seen an interview (as in on tv and seen those words come out of his mouth) so i will not believe it, i put it all down to media spin and BS.

    even if it is true the media are more than 90% wrong in these things i don't want to take the chance of believing something and it turns out to be false, which in many cases it does

  33. that statement from Benayoun has never been denied or accepted as coming from the player it is not FACT it is a story that has been in the media probably made up. or maybe his agent is looking for a big payday

  34. Whether a player goes on and does better or worse is irrelevant, and makes no difference to how they were treat whilst they were at Liverpool.

    I can put aside my feelings over Benitez's management approach and post positive stuff about him (as I have repeatedly), and I can also acknowledge the great things he's done whilst at Liverpool - and he has done some great things.  You, however, are seemingly incapable of setting aside your pro-Benitez biaas and looking at things fairly.

    Anyone who refuses to accept that Alonso was forced out of the club by Benitez *despite Alonso himself admitting that in public!* is clesarly not being fair-minded.

    Alonso stated:

    <span><span><span>"Last summer when the club proposed that I had to be sold to buy new players it was a difficult moment and decision to accept;</span> but I accepted it as a professional. <span>That moment changed my mind, from that moment it was time for a change".</span></span></span>

    Read more: http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/09/proof-that-rafa-benitez-was-responsible.html#ixzz0pbLzZPmw

  35. Mark

    I am sure Benitez is a nice guy around the dinner table but should get a ticket back to Spain or wherever he pleases...

    And your comment about "They are simple realities."


    Remember, no excuses...

  36. It's a shame that Benayoun never got to play in the position he was most suited to for us - as the advanced central midfielder/playmaker.  Instead we continue to use Gerrard (who I admit excelled in that position) there even when we're playing Lucas through the middle every game (where Gerrard also excels), and pay ~£40m to buy two new players to fit into that position.  Even with our "star reserve" aspiring to play in that position also.  Meanwhile the wings continue to rot...   :(

    Benayoun continues to be shoehorned into the left midfield berth to join the continuous rotating line there.  It's peculiar that no matter how badly individuals or the team were performing last season, everybody was pretty much guaranteed their starting berth week in, week out, while those picked to play on the left were "rotated" endlessly, irrespective of how they performed.

  37. does this look or sound familar?? from back in Jan on your facebook page. you said that you believed the words of the Moscow sporting Director....

    'Yossi Benayoun has agreed terms to quit Liverpool for Dynamo Moscow, according to the Russian club's sporting director'

    i'm in no way defending rafa & his apparent treatment of players, but im simply questioning the media sources for these rumours.

  38. btw, I'm sure that Benayoun, Babel, Riera et al were pretty pissed to see Maxi Rodriguez, who hadn't even been playing regularly for Madrid before joining us, just waltz into Liverpool and immediately be handed a starting berth ahead of them

  39. Hi, 
    Good Post.
    The misuse of players and their positions has been a problem for a long time. Lucas is not a Defensive Midfielder, Cara is not a right back,Kuyt is not a winger, Yosi is not effective on the left. What does it tell you when our manager - plays Masherano at RB, when he has Degan on the bench. That defines Rafa. I dont care how bad the Americans have been. Rafa is to blame for our positon. Let me explain. Everyone who says that Rafa has not had enough money needs to re look at the position. Do you think that Rafa did not have a team good enough to end 4th ? He goes public with a statement saying he needs more money but he does not deserve even one pound. With the team he had , finishing 4th should have been easy, he finished 7th , with Everton nearly catching us in the end. He has demoralised the fans and the players and potential future owners. I pray every day that he goes so that someone else , whomever he may be can bring back our mojo

  40. best be careful Truth. Liverpool - Kop has be giving critical realism to LFC since well ..... since 2 days after Hicks and Gillett took over 

    3 words JK sense of humour

  41. This is a good question, it seems he presents a one sided view of life at liverpool.
    Also...look at the 'label cloud'...he has one article in the positive label....and that was some time ago....
    Jaimie when did you make the jump from journalism to PR agent?

  42. Prakash - wingers stretch the game and create space for your players to play through the middle.  Just look at how Rooney has benefited from playing through the middle with Valencia hugging the touchline, dragging defenders away from the box and getting the ball into him quickly!  Torres is a much better striker than Rooney imo, so would love the opportunity to have to only beat one/two defenders on the way to goal, instead of having the whole defence packed in and geared towards stopping him

    btw, as I constantly keep repeating, NOBODY has won the Premiership without a quality performer on the wings thus far.  Even Chelsea, with by far the best team in the Prem last year, needed Malouda to step up considerably in order to get over the hump!  We keep neglecting quality on the wings and are paying dearly for it...

  43. Damien - Dynamo Moscow's sporting Director made public comments to that effect.  That is not 'the media'. that is factual comment, which we're entitled to believe.  If Benitez makes a statement about a player, would you not believe it?  Of course you would.  There's no difference here.  I only highlight transfer rumours when there is a specific quote to back it up.

  44. Again i never said he wasn't forced out. I just understood the decision, as it is one i would have taken at that time. The mistake what most media articles suggest is that he was forced out during/after the 2008/2009 season. He was forced out during th 2007/2008 season as Barry, at least to me and Rafa was the better player.

    I would like to confirm to you all i am neither pro or anti Rafa. Liverpool comes first, but i will not slate a manager becuase it is the "in" thing and if a new manager comes in i will support him untill they prove they are not worth my support, something Rafa has not done (yet).

    You can only play 11 players and the players he has "forced" out were not good enough to be in the first 11 at that time, to me, this is a fact, based on my opinions of those players. Did we need Crouch, yes we did and do, could we offer him week in week out football like at Spuds and Portsmouth, no, Torres is the better player.

    I think if you asked Rafa about the players you have listed he would love to have a few of them in the squad, but the players chose better wages and first team football over bench warming.

    Out of the players you listed how many would get in the first 11 using Rafas systen? I can only really think of Alonso

  45. You see, Nickname.  This is *precisely* what I'm talking about when I refer to Benitez fans being in denial.  Alonso made these comments publicly in an interview.  I've attached it to this message.

    Are you now going to tell me that it's not really Alonso in the video?  That it's an imposter impersonating him?! 8-)

    http://www.youtube.com/v/_A-9D3uDtP8&feature" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="170" height="140

  46. Looks like you're suggesting Rafa's had a negative effect on players more often than positive. But:
    1) Pennant has been a troublesome character wherever he's been. Pretty sure he dissed Wenger pretty bad upon leaving.
    2) Alonso - agreed its a pity Rafa fell out with him ultimately but we musn't forget Rafa is the reason he came in the first place, as with most of the Spaniards
    3) Hyypia was 34(?) when he left. He left for first-team football (surely wasn't going to start ahead of Carra & Agger. Our loyalty and respect for him only supports Rafa's decision to let him leave to puruse it.
    Crouch is another with a simmilar situation - wanted first-team footy and wasn't going to get it ahead of Torres.
    4) Riise actually played alot till he left, but lost form and though I'd rather have kept him, it can't be said he was dumped without reason. Same goes for the benchings of Babel & Keane.
    5) Warnock - was never going to be good enough, i believe when he left we had Riise & Aurelio. has been poor this season for villa

    Positive 'benitez effect'
    1) Torres - 'nuff said. World-class. When signed reknowned as being of great potential but not quite fullfilled, now accepted as one of the top strikers in the game.
    2) Gerrard - The most obvious one. Has come on leaps and bounds under Rafa. Just look at his goal record post-Rafa.
    3) Agger - you've suggested earlier that he hasn't progressed as much as he 'should have'.. thats a little unfair. Near impossible to assess how much someone 'should have' improved.
    4) Reina - signed a new 6(?)-year contract THIS season despite what it was. One of the top keepers in the world and showing great committment inspite of the season we've had. Rafa gets no credit for it?

  47. Okay, Redman. Any quotes from players that reflect badly on Benitez = false.  Any quotes that praise him = true.  Have I got that right?

  48. We were talking about Yossi! Read my previous post to see i agree with you that Alonso left coz we were looking to bring in Barry

  49. Actually, it was about a week before H+G took over.  We were formulating the website's strategy in preparation for the beginning of their reign ;)

  50. argue as much as you want, doesnt help at all.

  51. indeed. using Aquilani as evidence of the "B-E" is rather stretching it. He 's looked v good when fit + has done everything to suggest he 'll improve  next season.

    If players do move on this summer, I would find it hard to blame them to be honest. They can earn more money elsewhere and some are linked to other clubs where they will be likely to win more trinkets.

    So, lets not mistake this for just poor man-management , his opportunities in the team have improved not got worse:

    09/10 = 29 starts and 15 subs (reduced by the 4 injuries he's had this season whihch have kept him out of games). This has increased from last season (24 starts) and the one before (25 starts).

    No doubt Yossi will feel better with all that extra cash around the place, but will he actually play more games for chelsea than lfc?

    Let's face it if Yossi want to leave its because of factors besides benitez' man-management (ie. cash, medals, X, Y, Z etc)

  52. Torres? He is an outstanding player.  He had amazing potential before coming to Liverpool.  Wherever he went he would be class.  He was always going to improve.  Benitez has nothing to do with it.

    That's like saying Gerard Houllier is responsible for how good Michael Owen was, or Roy Evans was responsible for Robbie Fowler.  Some players are just great players, and are always going to get better.  That goes for Torres AND Gerrard.

    Gerrard was a great player before Benitez arrived.  He was only ever going to get better. 

    Agger - how has he improved so much?  Our defensive performance was dire last season, and Agger heavily featured.  We finished 7th; tell me what his positive impact was.  In fact, tell me why - with examples - Agger is such a great player.  He has the potential, but in my view, we haven't seen it yet.

    Reina - please tell me who possible difference Benitez makes to a goalkeeper's ability...

  53. Jk
    I have stated on this site many times that I think it is probably time to change our manager and that I am not a RAFA apologist. Your article today doesnt deal with facts even the links to your previous articles dont provde facts. Players leave clubs for a whole host of reasons but i would sat probably money is the main issue. Yossi or his agent could be looking for a final last hurragh payday so everything is not as black and white as you would have us believe.
    Also I have noted the link to a facebook group LFC fans who want Rafa out of the Club. I recently attended a marketing seminar which pointed out that if Facebook was a country then it would have the 3rd largest population in the world given this fact and the fact that LFC itself has over 1m members do you think the 297 people who have joined the group offer a good representation

  54. Max,

    I'm not continuing to argue inane points with you beyond the fact that for Peter Crouch, he wanted to leave to get 1st team football.

    This perfectly illustrates my point and that fact that jaimie has removed my last point which was in no way offensive just goes to show how narrow minded he can be. 

    Its also called censorship. 

  55. Redman - not everything needs to be proved with facts.  In my articles, I have given my opinion on why those players left.  I've provided evidence to support my arguments; I never siad my arguments were fact.  Sometimes, you have to read between the lines; not everything is cut and dried and provable.

    re the Facenook group - I'm not really interested in how many people join in.  I haven't publicised the group anywhere, and he only link to it is either via facebook itself or the link at the bottom of this page.

    If I publicised it incessantly via various methods, it would get a hell of alot more people joining.  As I said though, I'm not interested in the numbers.  That's how I feel, so I started a group.  if people feel the same way, they can join. If they don't, they won't.  makes no difference to me.

  56. of course not JK there have been very public spats fron players like Pennent but you deal with facts and I do try to offer a balance in my responses. Some of the quotes in this article are not facts just media hearsay which you where berating last week over accounting issues and debt lies

  57. Everybody keeps saying that Crouch left to be guaranteed first team football but ignores the fact that he was not guaranteed first team football at Spurs!!  Yea, he wanted to go to where he'd be appreciated a bit more, instead of sitting on the bench watching us chase a CL final against a bunch of midgets, and he wanted to be given a fair run in the team when his play dictated it, but he was not guaranteed to be a starter when he left.

    In regards to the positive effect that Benitez supposedly has on so many players - his methods certainly work quickly don't they! seeing as most of those players seem to have their best seasons during their first season with him, before either stagnating and dropping off (e.g. Agger, Momo, Xabi, Masch, Kuyt etc) with only a few managing to maintain that form long term ,(e.g. Torres, Gerrard, Reina etc)

    p.s. a world class central midfielder being moved upfield as a support striker and told to focus on attacking should automatically pick up more goals right??  imo, Gerrard is by no means a better player now than he was pre-Benitez

  58. If Torres was such a sure thing, why is it i can remember that pundits were saying at the time that he is a bit of a gamble? I even remeber him being compared to Bent and one pundit saying that Bent will even get more goals than him this year. Also why is he playing for Liverpool and not signed by Manu when SAF was looking at him for years before hand? Maybe coz he wasn't a sure thing, maybe it was Rafa that Torres came for?

    If i remember last season Reina got the joint golden glove again, i guess the defense wasn't all that bad afterall. And Agger played a huge part in that, apparently.

    I also wouldn't know how Rafa would effect the progression of a keeper, maybe putting in the correct keeping coach? Maybe Reina is only at Liverpool coz he likes working for Rafa? Maybe none of the above, the fact is he is here and that is coz Rafa signed him!

    Gerrard has got better under Rafa whether that is due to Rafa we will only find out in the next biography from Stevie himself.

  59. Good point, Jay.  That was a massive slap in the face for some players, particularly Benayoun.  Talk about a cast-iron way to demotivate your players.

  60. Great points.  Crouch has not been a regular starter for Spurs over the last season, but you can tell by his comments in interviews that he has been appreciated.  And he had the last laugh anyway - He helped Spurs into the CL, whilst Liverpool lost out.  The tragic irony is that if Crouch was at Liiverpool last season, his personal impact could conceivably helped Liverpool get the points required to gain CL qualification.

  61. This is what we want good natured banter and debate

  62. Correct me if I'm wrong Jaime but Hyypia cant play R/B R/M or CF.

  63. <span>

    I looked at the top for reasons that posts may be deleted and there seems to be something missing.
    You should really say 'if anyone can prove that I am being rampantly hypocritical, I will delete your comments'.
    This is like a Nazi state.
    And to think you would like to be treated seriously.

  64. Jamie, 

    Please be honest, when crouch did not score for the first 19 games or so, did you support him or did you blame Rafa? I seem to remember not many people supported Rafa when he bought Crouch and only Rafa supported him through thick and thin and keep playing him.  I bet you think crouch was crap and Rafa was wrong to buy him and now he is gone, everyone thinks he is great and blames Rafa that Crouch has left.  I believe Rafa has improved Crouch and since playing for Liverpool, he is wanted by most clubs.  Do you think most clubs would want him if he did not play for Liverpool?  I doubt it.

  65. Excellent point!

  66. Whenever Benítez gets linked to another club you can find the supporters of that particular club up in arms fearing the worst for their club. Supporters don't seem to want him as they can see that all in all he has been moving us backwards. Top 15 managers? Maybe in the Premier League, yes. May keep us clear of relegation next season.

  67. walcott, reyes, Jeffers, Silva (+multiple goalkeepers and CBs) evidence of the "wenger effect?"

    fabregas, Henry, anelka irrelevant as they would have been brilliant anyway?

    picking and choosing your data is very very dodgy

  68. Thanks for your comments.

    Yes, I did support Crouch.  Why?  Because he made lots of other important contributions to the team during that period.  It was obvious he was going to come good, and he did that season.  Plus, he was our top scorer in his second season.

    I never thought Crouch was crap - I was always a fan of his, and the articles on the site prove this. 

    And yes, I blame Benitez for Crouch leaving. Think about it: Crouch played for Liverpool, one of the most successful, prestigious clubs of all time.  Why would he want to take a step down from that? The CL final snub in 2007 was just too ridiculous for words; one of the worst managerial decisions in modern LFC history is you ask me (along with failing to start Hamann in Istanbul, and Houlier subbing Hamann for Smicer in the CL quarter final in 2002)

    I don't think it's true to say that clubs wouldn't want him if he didn't play for Liverpool.  After all, a top club like Liverpool wanted him, didn't they?  Crouch had never played for a top team before LFC.

  69. vivalarocka - when Crouch couldn't score for ages, Rafa took time out to compliment his play after pretty much every game and refused to take the guy out of the starting line-up.  As soon as the goals started coming for Crouch, that's when the praise dried up and he started to increase his bench duty.  It's as if Benitez just wanted to prove that he had been right all along, and once that had been done he could revert back to doing what he wanted.

    His plaudits are typically reserved for his pet projects, who will pretty much get praised for any positive aspect of their game.  

  70. Did Wenger alienate those players? No.  Did he play them out of position repeatedly?  No.  Did he criticise them in public/treat them shabbily? No.

    There is no comparison.  Those players came in, did a job, ultimately weren't good enough, and left with the minimum of fuss. 

    With Benitez, there's something negative that surrounds all the players I've mentioned, and many of them have made indirect criticisms of Benitez after they've leafet (see Alonso video below).

    It's not picking and choosing at all.  What should I do - an analysis of every team in the PL of which players left/stayed?!  I support LFC, not Arsenal.  If some Arsenal fan wants to make a case for Wenger, let them do it.

  71. Some of the quotes in this article are not facts just media hearsay

    No, they're no RedMan.  Just because you think a quote is media hearsay doesn't make it so.  Every quote I've used is a factual quote from the player himself.  Just because a quote is widely reported in the media does not make it media hearsay.  You just don't want to accept the truth.

    If you have time, please list the quotes that are apparently 'media hearsay'.  Thanks.

  72. The thing is though, someone will take that quote about H+G, post it on an LFC forum and say 'Look - proof that Kanwar is on H=G's payroll'.  Believe me, it's happened many times (!). And people believe it!

  73. <span>The truth is somewhere in the middle, you can't say on one hand he has only had a negative effect and no positive effects on ANYONE.</span>
    <span> </span>
    <span>I am on the fence with rafa and think he should only be replaced with an improvement, not change for change sake.</span>
    <span> </span>
    <span>In summary, Rafa is a good coach and tactician, albeit defensive minded, but from a man management point of view, recognosing players who need an arm round them or need to be told how great they are, he hasn't got it and never will. He is not a charismatic coach and players will never run through brick walls for him.</span>
    <span> </span>
    <span>He needs to recognise this weakness and appoint assistant to fill that void.  </span>
    <p>Like Ferguson has does in the past on the tactical side</p>

  74. I think you make some valid points but from my perspective, in the case of Hyypia, I believe he was offered a coaching role but he wanted to play more.  And your use of the word 'dumped' as in 'dumped' on the bench could be re-phrased to be less loaded in favour of your argument (not that you will care, I guess).

    And can you honestly prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that ANY player improvement is due to maturity alone?

    I think the whole argument depends on whether you think we/you/whoever know better than the manager.  Why do we put up with players who start complaining when they don't make the starting XI?  If there is one manager who has to constantly explain his decisions it is Rafa because elements of the press (and online  ;) ) consistently question his decisions even after a victory. 

    Benny has always flirted with leaving since he arrived.  If he doesn't want to stay let him go. 

  75. No, it's called enforcing the comment policy.  As I said repeatedly, posts that slag me off with be deleted.  The discussion is not about *me* - it's about football. If you or anyone wants to bitch about me, you can do so by email.

  76. If Benitez was a good manager we would not be in 7th place.If he had the dressing room Gerrard would not have looked bemused when Torres was subbed of against Birmingham. Yosi would never say that he would leave if Rafa stayed. Torres has even gone against his Agent (who was being diplomatic) , by saying he is unsure and Gerrard has confused us all as well. Masherano wants to leave (not becuase he cannot see Insua through his window.) Come one guys wake up. Rafa supporters will always have my respect because everyone is entitled to their opinion. Rafa would have been tolerated by all concerned in his handling of the players if he was sucessful. Thats the way it goes. Jose M can be who he is becuase he is Jose and he proven himself over and over again. Rafa won the Spanish League when Barca and Real were not in ascendency. In England Rafa has never beaten Birmingham. I am will always be greatful for what happened in Istanbul, but realise that it was a once in a lifetime achievement for Rafa. His decision not to play Peter Crouch against AC Milan in Athens is what cost us the chance to be 6 time champions. his decision not to attack ARSENAL at Emirates when Adabeyer was sent of last year , but rather to defend his 1-1 result shows his mentality. Remember only attack minded managers win the league. When Jose M sold SWP, DUff and Roben he never won the league again with boring football. I do not pretend to have a solution to our problems and can humble admit that. But I think it is time for those that Support Rafa toi really come out and tell us why. Please give us real reasons , not ones that say "we dont know who else we can get...". For now we are still LIVERPOOL. I was in Thailand when Liverpool won the Champions League in Istanbul. In the area where the Liverpool Bar is , there was no place to walk for 5 hours. We are still a powerhouse brand. But is being run by poor custodians. H and G have urinated on our holy traditions and Rafa has dismantled our attacking nature. 

  77. I agree that Benitez seems to have a problem at times with man management.

    However the fact that your atricles are so one sided they arent then balanced.

    I have never seen you write an article about how Benitez has taken Torres who scored no more than 14 goals a season in Spain and helped turn him into a 20-30 goal a season player. Torres has acknowledged Rafas influence himself.

    Your seem so fixated on Rafa's bad points and the Americans good point you no longer can tell the wood from the trees.

  78. Hi Mike,

    Hyppia wasn't offered a role as a coach.  He admitted this in a recent interview he conducted:

    You’re 36 years old. If we believe the English media, you declined a position as a trainer before leaving Liverpool. It’s a very unusual decision considering that Liverpool was your youth dream team. Why did you do that?

    Because I thought that, as a football player, I still have got something to offer. But as I see, you believe everything what the papers say …

    So it wasn’t  the whole truth?

    You could say it like that … We’ve spoken about a new contract. But I decided to come here and play football. I still have time to become a trainer at the age of 40 or 50.


  79. No - it is your perception of my articles that is one-sided.  With respect, arguing that I am 'fixated on Rafa's bad points' is just not supported by the facts.  There are plenty of positive articles about him on the site; you and others just choose to ignore them.

    And for the millionth time: why should I be balanced?!  I have my opinion - that means Im not going to be balanced.  No football fan is balanced.  YOU are not balanced in your views on LFC.

    Who made the ridiculous rule that you have to be balanced when discussing football?  In reality, it's not the way it is. As I always say, if you want balance, go to the BBC's website!

  80. I would say that it is your perception of my articles that is one-sided.  With respect, arguing that I am 'fixated on Rafa's bad points' is just not supported by the facts.  There are plenty of positive articles about him on the site; you and others just choose to ignore them. 
    And for the millionth time: why should I be balanced?!  I have my opinion - that means Im not going to be balanced.  No football fan is balanced.  YOU are not balanced in your views on LFC. 
    Who made the ridiculous rule that you have to be balanced when discussing football?  In reality, it's not the way it is. As I always say, if you want balance, go to the BBC's website!

  81. Seriously, which coach worth their salt would take the current LFC managers job.


    Possible sale imminent with all dirty laundry washed in public.

    no funds to shape you own squad

    if your interested please apply!!!!!!!!!!!!

    In all seriousness, if he goes we can't have a chequebook manager as we have no cheque book, we need a manager with coaching ability, who has a plan b for games and can squeeze the full potential out of the current squad with a few additions, and keep them motivated.

    hiddink? mourinho? capello (may not fit the bill above but seems to demand respect) who else do you think has a proven track record and would be good for us?

    or do you go for a hungry young uproven coach which in my opinion is very risky

  82. agree to disagree. 

    You re narrow minded, I'm not. 

  83. Why have I never seen a positive article on this website?

    People who disagree with Jamie are told they're quoting media cliche or banned.

    Crouch & Sami both wanted 1st team football, Rafa couldn't promise that so both were allowed to leave.

    Riise was slowing up and had in just in one swing of his left leg put us out of the CL, which may have been different if he'd used his right leg like he had been told to do.

    Warnock went in the cull when Rafa arrived.

    Alanso said that he was upset about the Barry saga, and was never spoken to about it. Could he have gone to Rafa and asked what was going on. The only rumoured selling of Xabi to Juva was due to the money issues with the owners. I personnally believe that Rafa wanted Barry to add to the midfield along WITH Xabi, but ended up having to go to for Reira.

    Riera started OK but tailed off, he never was good at tracking back and others ended up playing instead of him. I also think his outburst was only due to him trying to get 1st team action to make the Spanish team. Even the russian team said he was all about the money not the playing. So is this really Rafa's fault that Reira was all me me me.

    As for Yossi, Babel and Aquaman I don't know enough to make a fair and balanced comment.

    Until I start to see some positive articles on this website, I'm still of the opinion that Jamie is in fact a Toffee or Manc.

    I conclusion

  84. i know most of you will laugh but I would offer the job to Steven Gerrard and Ray Evans as his Assistant.

  85. Of course you are largely correct. 
    One might think that Rafa does not like players who think his head and ask questions. Rafa needs so stupid players like Lucas, who like robots will be with him and will not ask questions. Such blunt players already satisfied with what they had the good fortune to be such a great club. They understand that their place is not really there and somewhere in Estrela Amadora, etc. 
    Unfortunately at this time of problems have accumulated a great deal and even worse that it is difficult to see the light at the end of the tunnel.


  87. I feel as if we will always have player issues with Rafa in charge. Why is it that other managers can accommodate more than 11 players in a team? Anyone who doesn't get regular first team action at Liverpool wants to move on to a club where they will.

    Case in point - Ryan Babel plays brilliant football when played on the right (LFC V REAL MADRID). Gets benched the next game. Starts having a dip in form and wants to leave. Gets some better man management from Benitez and has a change of attitude. (Still played out of position though).

    Benayoun repeatedly comes off the bench and plays intelligent football, being the main creative player on the field at times. Gets benched the next game. Lucas plays game-in game-out. Why? Because Masch couldn't handle the defensive midfield??? Because Lucas is more attack-minded? WHAT IS LUCAS'S POSITION ON THE FIELD EXACTLY???

    Riise is a wonderful servant of the club and provides solidity width down the left. Gets sold to Roma (still can't understand this bit of business)

    Crouch...lets not go there. If ever we could clearly see how much we missed Crouch it was last season. But Voronin was there as backup.

    If we still had Riise, Crouch, Bellamy, Arbeloa, Alonso we would have had a much stronger SQUAD. If Benitez had built better relationships with these players they would not have wanted to leave.

  88. jeeez, only a minority of players will stay at a club for their entire career - 5 years is quite a large chunk of time away from home for a foreigner.

    Why make conspiracy theories about it? Real Madrid are in the top tier "prestige" of clubs and they offered alonso a chance to earn megabucks - bad man management or good man management, i can see why he left

  89. Great post :) A very fair-minded appraisal of the situation.

  90. Alonso himself admitted that he left because of Benitez.  There is no conspiracy theory; it is fact.  Or are you going to disagree with the man himself?!

    http://www.youtube.com/v/_A-9D3uDtP8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="170" height="140

  91. Billy,

    Just a quick question regarding your following comment:

    "I personnally believe that Rafa wanted Barry to add to the midfield along WITH Xabi, but ended up having to go to for Reira."  

    Alonso was sold in 2009...

    Reira was bought in 2008...

    So how could Rafa have ended up going for Reira in 2009 when he had already joined the club in 2008?

    Are you a Leeds supporter?

  92. I was wrong on half the statement then.  I honestly thought Sami was offered a coaching role.  It proves not, I think he was offered some sort of deal though and also thought he would not play as much as he would like to.  I think any manager of a big club would be reluctant to have a player who is 35+ as a regular starter in defence - regardless of their quality.  That is not to say Sami wasn't up to the job.

    I think Rafa has a plan of what he wants the team to do rather than individuals??  And if you believe Mr Balaque, Rafa always pretty much has a revolving door of players in and out due to this focus on the team rather than individuals.  I may have misinterpreted somewhere but I am sure it's on the web somewhere.

    I also believe, Torres has claimed several times that Rafa has improved him as a player.  Maybe Torres is misreading his own improvement then?

  93. And Billy so conviiantly deletes his comments.

    He obviously is a Leeds supporter?

  94. Rafa wanted Barry in 2008 but didn't get him, he got Reira.

    Xabi left a year later.

    And no I'm not a Leeds supporter, Red through and through since 74.

    One more Question,(not to you MAX just in general)


  95. Bit premature perhaps?  I often find Benitezs style in this respect frustrating, but I believe Benayoun will be around next season,still on top form! I don't believe all the players you mentioned are fair examples, my opinion is he simply couldn't offer hyppia warnock riise crouch what they wanted, and with reason at the time. Personal opinion aside, riera alonso keane and babel are fair, and aquilani to an extent, however the latter two were progressing nicely toward the end of the season. These are the issues that all fans will debate about, each one thinking the other is wrong!

  96. Who's Ray Evans??

  97. Well, he ain't that good. Compare him to other wingers in the top premier league clubs. I would swap him to Nani, Valencia, Malouda, Lennon, Nasri or anybody at any moment, and  if we can get Joe Cole for free and money from Yossi it's a good deal. Stop wining.

  98. And your point is...what, exactly?

  99. Billy - If you don't follow the comment policy, your posts will be hiddent (and moderated).  There is a filter in place to catch dodgy posts.  Just stick to debating the issue, and drop the derogatory stuff and there's absolutely no problem.  It has to be this way or the site would descend into name-calling, just like many LFC forums.

  100. Loop - I agree that the importance of Benayoun tends to be overplayed sometimes, but the simple fact is that he had a lot more to offer Liverpool than we have gotten out of him by dumping him on the left wing.  There is no point in comparing him to other those wingers you listed as he simply is not a left winger (much like Cole or Nasri, neither of which would be the solution to our left wing problems unless we are buying another another top winger to stretch the play on the opposite flank, and with the immovable Kuyt and Maxi, that just isn't going to happen under Rafa unfortunately)

    If he'd primarily been battling for the play-maker role most of the season with Aquilani & Pacheco, and Gerrard had been dropped into central midfield at the expense of Lucas or onto the right at the expense of Kuyt, the team would've been FAR better off and I've no doubt that both Benayoun's and the teams performances would've been greatly improved

  101. Prakash - I would take that combination tomrrow if it meant putting an end to the Benitez era.

  102. You go and better tell that Benítez, because after six years at the club we are still crying out for wingers. Riera has probably been the best winger he has bought and he isn't exactly great. He constantly deploys players on the wings who aren't wingers. Kuyt anyone. Babel. Benayoun. Rafa needs a lampshed, but comes out of the store with a table. And it is not exactly his own money he's spending, it is the clubs money.

  103. Jaimie maybe you should say something to Max because he always has a habit of winding readers up with his hatred for Rafa. He doesn't even say anything constructive 90% of the time, he's just always extremely negative.

  104. Jaimie if you want to be fair, you need to look at both players who left/underperformed because of Rafa and players who have flourished under Rafa - at least the top 5 from each. When Rafa bought Yossi everyone called him crazy, but look how well he served us, same goes for Crouch. People call Rafa a bad man manager, but does he really differ from Fergussen? Rafa is just ruthless, the team always comes first and the players feelings come second. I'm not going to lie, in many cases, especially with Babel, I hate Rafa for his lack of close man management. But, although I have no proof, I'm still adamant it also has a lot to do with salaries. Players are much happier to spend time on the bench when they're getting a good salary. Yossi played 42 games last season, and he spent some time injured... You can't even bring up Riera in any argument - 27 year old that attacks an 18 yr old Pacheco in training - whatever the reason, he's still a prick. Crouch moved for more than double his salary... Alonso's form was crap, he couldn't be sold for 12mill but went for more than double the following season. What if Barry had come in and performed? Supposedly Keane (Parry buy) would have fitted into the team better with Barry in it. Aquilani came into a demoralised, off form team in a different country after a bad injury. You can judge him at the end of next season. Jamie it needs to be said, just as you say supporters who are pro Rafa cannot see the bad in him, I see that supporters who are anti-Rafa cannot see the good. Rafa's not a good man manager, but in most cases does he really need to be? Look at Fergussen. In my opinion, players are motivated by 2 things - money and medals, and they will choose either or both of those any day before a manager who takes a very close personal interest in them.

  105. I bet his far larger salary has nothing to do with it?

  106. martin o'neil is a joke10:36 pm, June 01, 2010

    You Kanwar should start looking at the real reasons for players being sold most fair minded fans call them Hicks & Gillete what with there debt buliding exercise that been going on since the day they took charge. So when you talk about Rafa pushing Alonso out you should look at the real reason for this not only did they force Rafa to this Alonso & his agent were trying to broker a deal for him to move to Madrid two years before he left FACT Another Fact for you Crouch decided to leave LFC because he cared more about money than he did playing for LFC he was offered a new deal but refused so how can Rafa be to blame for him leaving? Benayoun lost his place through injury and not doing anything positive all season. But all this means nothing to you coz you love Hicks and Gillete so much and will sing their praises while they destroy LFC and thats why most people on the net think your either A. Deluded or B Man utf Fan I myseld would be inclined to think both.

  107. Ummmmmmm he usually sacrified Kuyt for Maxi???? Kut, Rafa's "favourite" player, ever consider Maxi actually deserved it? And that it was in the best interests of the team? But hmm, Babel's and Banayoun's feelings are more important than wether we win or lose. Sorry guys, but you have serious anti-Rafa goggles on.

  108. Not only did they force Rafa to this Alonso & his agent were trying to broker a deal for him to move to Madrid two years before he left FACT

    This is not fact at all.  It's something you just made up.  Provide evidence if it's a fact.

    Another Fact for you Crouch decided to leave LFC because he cared more about money than he did playing for LFC he was offered a new deal but refused so how can Rafa be to blame for him leaving

    Again, this is not fact.  If it is, provide some kind of evidence.

    Benayoun lost his place through injury and not doing anything positive all season

    Gee, don't generalise or anything.  Absolutely no truth to this at all.  Furthermore, 9 goals and 7 assists suggests the opposite  'not doing anything positive'.

    Here is an example of a fact for you: Xabi Alonso left Liverpool because of Benitez and his classless pursuit of Gareth Barry.  Here is the proof of his, directly from Alonso himself:

    http://www.youtube.com/v/_A-9D3uDtP8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="170" height="140

  109. Paul - please explain why Maxi deserved to leapfrog Benayoun, who consistently scores goals and gains assists when given the chance.  Maxi made absolutely no difference to the course of Liverpool's season.  None whatsoever. In fact, things just went from bad to worse after his signing. He managed 1 goal in 17 appearances, 9 of which were either draws or defeats.

  110. not wanting to be pedantic or anything but.....

    is there a video of Yossi saying any of this?

    It doesnt matter if the quote is directly attributed to the player.....the written press makes stuff up!

    here is an example that happened recently -


    You cant really trust any quotes unless you see the person on video/tv/whatever actually saying them.  Its a sad reflection on the state of our news/press/sports reporting ( especially sports reporting!)

  111. It's funny - I don't see you questioning the validity of other comments made by Liverpool players in the press.  90% of stuff they say is not captured on film, but I guess as long as what's being said is general/positive/non-contentious then it doesn't need to be proved...right?

    Re the link you provided - that's hardly persuasive evidence.  Some sky presenter backtracks on something she said off the record.  Of course she's going to deny it; if there's no video/audio evidence of her saying it, she'll deny it.  She probably spoke to some reporter off the record/unwittingly and revealed the info, and then was surprised it was published.

    I love how people become wilfully naive when it comes to proving their point sometimes. 

  112. didnt crouch go to Portsmouth 1st ? where he would have been playing week in week out?

    He then went to Spurs where he was competeing with Bent, defoe and (the unfancied at that time ) Pavlyuchenko in a 4-4-2. Probably thinking he would stand a better chance of starting there than behind Torres at Liverpool.

    and ( not wanting to be cynical because we know that every footballer plays for the love of the game) but i am sure he is amply rewarded for warming the bench at Spurs.

  113. Benayoun and Riera aren't good enough to get us a title so if we get in the £16M range for both then the Benitez Effect works fine with me. Benayoun has always been overrated to me. I put him in the same bracket as Salomon Kalou. Only a regular starter if you're not expecting to challenge for top honours. A classic Aston Villa player and no real improvement on Luis Garcia. Not too bothered about this one. Apart from Stephen Warnock and Alonso I don't miss any of the guys on your list.

  114. If they're not good enough, why did Benitez spend the best part of 13m buying them? No doubt, another one of the typical excuses will be advanced to eplain that away.

    Re Benayoun: 27 goals and 16 assists in 90 appearances (a ratio of one goal/assist every 2 appearances) pretty much makes a mockery of your contention that he's not good enough.

  115. Let him go to Chelsea where he can spend the whole time on the bench.

  116. <span>
    Ive had a look at this and sorry it just doesn’t fly.
    The players mentioned have moved on for perfectly normal reasons, It seems quite a few ’ obvious’ home truths have been overlooked
    For example I cant believe this angle has been employed using Sami hypia as an example.
    Hypias excellent service could not be maintained at the top level it was quite obvious he was approaching the time when he could not be classed as a full 90min work horse, a point also noted at the lack of any other ‘top’ clubs asking for his services.
    The injuries to our Cbs where unfortunate however impossible to legislate for.
    Robbie Keane was a disappointment, he never quite cut it he shud have done better. He just wasn’t upto it, again illustrated by his subsequent performances for spurs and the far less illustrious ’Scottish’ arena he now plies his trade - this tells u all we need to know on R. Keane.
    Crouch would be a useful addition to any squad and keeping him would be an ideal situation, alas its not been an ideal world at LFC for quite sometime, Crouch went to secure himself more appearances as he didn’t like the way he was used, it’s a one up front system we utilize it’s a popular set up used by many hi grade coaches/teams. You cant blame anyone for someone moving company to better there career, (a big fat chunk of cash for him also) 1 up top is the way we form and the killer issue here is Torres or crouch ? End of story.
    Warnock sorry this is an invalid point with the guy he was never upto it and is no loss
    Same also for risse to a large extent he was certainly not missed the first year ,anyone saying it’s a mistake now doesn’t stand up neither as none can predict the future,
    It also need sto rembered a lot of these players are journey men bellamy for instance a classic gun for hire, these type never commit also another issue is some are plying their trade far away from home and a certain amount will decide to relocate Where family/friends are more comfortable. Closer etc..
    As for benyuaoun its plain to see has another squad type player and not an auto 1<sup>st</sup> choice, quite useful however caught wanting often this season - weve been up against the wall and Benny was just to light weight to really help out, again if the guy wants regular games he cant be blamed. If he goes hopefully that’s kitty money for better players anyway that’s if we can believe purlslow or shud I say ‘purse-slow’ (sorry)

    So were just left with Alonso and maybe if the situation was handled differently we may still have him? Who knows the way it played out may have been the same once we got our target Barry but well never know so no point.
    That leads me into another important note that the managers only had full control over all matters for a short time so this supposed effect u claim was perhaps not all rafas doing, again we don’t know for sure, it strikes me as another example of the frustrating stories coming out of the club for some time.
    The good effects also can not simply be ignored that is rather blinkered, we need to remember not only the aquistion of toress,riena etc,,also the retention of Gerrard and the aforementioned players, recruitment is just one part retention is also key.
    I do recall amazement when the likes of Rush,Aldridge,Beardsly etc,, moved on for various reasons but again no case was evident for a negative management effect for such moving
    Anyway back to this supposed effect - as ive sated here it doesn’t hold up as you claim, I see the only loss as Alonso and that may have been inevitable.
    I cant agree and see the arguments as not just weak but largely invalid,

  117. Longchalk - the arguements are not weak and invalid, and you have not proved that.  You've just spouted the same old pro-Benitez cliches as everyone else. I will illustrate how YOUR arguments are 'weak and invalid' by focusing on one particular aspect of your post.

    You really should *think* about what you write.

    Hypias excellent service could not be maintained at the top level it was quite obvious he was approaching the time when he could not be classed as a full 90min work horse, a point also noted at the lack of any other ‘top’ clubs asking for his services.

    Unbelievbly inaccurate generalisations.

    1. Sami made 38 starts last season: 32 for Leverkusen and 8 for Finland.

    2. He played the full 90 minutes on 37 occasions

    3. He was voted best defender in the Bundesliga, and Leverkuses had the second best defensive record in the league.

    This mnakes a mockery of your contention that he was not a '90- minute workhorse'.  Benitez made exactly the same mistake in thinking that.

    Leverkusen are a top club in Germany.  Anyway, the point that top clubs were not queuing up to sign a 36 year old defender (!) is hardly a revelation.  No player at that age is going to attract the top clubs for obvious reasons.

    If Hyypia wasn't dumped from the CL squad by Benitez and made to feel unappreciated, I believe he would have stayed.  Instead, we lost one of our most experienced players, and replaced him with an inferior defender in his 30s (!).  What was the point?  Kyrgiakos is not in Hyppia's league.  Our squad suffered because of Benitez's failure to appreciate Hyppia's experience continued impact on the team.

    In his last season, Sami was as outstanding as ever whenever he played, a prime example being the 4-1 victory at Old Tafford, in which he produced yet another defending masterclass.  He had Rooney and Ronaldo in his pocket, and proved again that he was worth another season, if not two.

    Sami should still be at the club. We needed him last season, but Benitez lacked the foresight to see this.

  118. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6605145.stm

  119. there r good and bad thing as a human being...n nobody is perfect, definitely..

    there r some approaches for a manager in managing a team and it can be differ to every single manager in the world.

    for me there is a lot of argument exist when we r dropping from 2nd place to our worst position since 1997 if i not mistaken (right me if im wrong coz im not doing extremly analysis about that).

    there r no argument when rb changed dramatically in 2nd half of final eufa in istanbul

    there r no argument also when liverpool manage to get fa cup final after concede 3 goals. 

    from my point of view, there r good and bad from the rb. we have to admit it. but done to extremely positive and negatively to rb because there r still weakness in their managerial but i believe he cant control everything himself...

    about the transfer actually, from the previous article throughout his career in liverpool, he repeatedly quotes that board cant give what he want..e.g he want simao, heinze (block by the man u), barry even youth player or the rest. he try to manage a team that not quality enough to win in all games, where the time man u already spending on ferdinand and rooney before and chelsea got sugar daddy there. beside that, he also slowly adapt the requirement needed in epl for bringing a new player. so that he slowly offload who player doesnt need the requirement of the league (obviously in the early of his management).

    i do believe from his 3 - present regimn, he try to buy player with , right QUALITIES and ATTITUDE. its show frm his favourite player like GERRARD, CARRA, REINA, TORRES , MACHERANO. so there r some activity in adapting this so there r also a lot of transfer activity when his management.

    so there still some weakness in liverpool transfer when he is in charge but it slowly improved i believe in the future.

  120. dont too really on the statistic.and i know the british media like analysis statistic.:)

    u should admit that the demand of bundesliga and epl is very far. you r not damn good is u cant minimize the movement of rooney, drogba, anelka, van persie , torres. 

    most of them good speed ability even not the sprinter. even we know hypia strength is not speed, but his speed is slowly down corresponding to their age.

    if he fit enough as well as the carra one, i believe he is service to liverpool

  121. Alonso was forced out of club, fact. WHY? Rafa needs cash to spend on other players. Why is there no money in the pot to buy new players? G&H SAID SO!

    To me alonso's departure was surely to blame solely on the owners and not rafa..

    Pursuit of gareth barry? replacement for alonso but a cheaper version and near enough same job + english! (uefa 6 + 5).

    Good business sense?? Anybody would say yes, if not they would be clueless, barry's talent is non questionable, look no further than the 23 man england world cup squad, and he made it with injuries!!!

    All the rest of players on the so called benitez effect, well theres no point in desputing because either they are old, young, money driven or want first team football which makes these reasons become non-benitez effect.

    As for benayoun he was always effective when comming on as a sub, never performed admirably when starts, which is not good enough.

    He's a brilliant squad player, but never the player jamie is making out, he can leave if he wants (Mind you i dont blame him, he would get more money warming chelsea's bench up than ours!). As he was always a fragile player who shivers when facing opponents like everton, plus not consistent enough for LFC.

    Although he gave us a few good moments and well done but we need a player with flair who can perform week in week out..(Robben or benega)

  122. <span>

    Dear me mr kanwar. (re my last comments and hypias inclusion on your list)
    You do seem to resent any challenge to your indigenous self belief!
    Why the sardonic comments are necessary when a person raises legitimate issue is puzzling.
    Without rising to much to your level with this I must say -
    If your expecting to be taken seriously when you claim the german bundesliga a ‘top’ place for players to prove their worth! You are much mistaken
    that’s nonsense sir, I qualify this by the fact no recent german team outside of Bayern has held a candle to any noteworthy euro club.
    Leverkusen are no wher near the required level.it was well known Hypia was <span>nearing </span>the end - again ideally keeping him as a squd member would be good yes, however simply not possible he left for regular games and fair play to him a red legend without question.
    No other side German teams are ranked highly with Uefa,or other bodies .This is also shown with Germany only ever having 3 CL places,
    Perhaps your allegiance to one of our best clouds your thinking here.


    Dear me mr kanwar. (re my last comments and hypias inclusion on your list)  
    You do seem to resent any challenge to your indigenous self belief!  
    Why the sardonic comments are necessary when a person raises legitimate issue is puzzling.  
    Without rising to much to your level with this I must say -  
    If your expecting to be taken seriously when you claim the german bundesliga a ‘top’ place for players to prove their worth! You are much mistaken  
    that’s nonsense sir, I qualify this by the fact no recent german team outside of Bayern has held a candle to any noteworthy euro club.  
    Leverkusen are no wher near the required level.it was well known Hypia was <span>nearing </span>the end - again ideally keeping him as a squd member would be good yes, however simply not possible he left for regular games and fair play to him a red legend without question.  
    No other side German teams are ranked highly with Uefa,or other bodies .This is also shown with Germany only ever having 3 CL places,  
    Perhaps your allegiance to one of our best clouds your thinking here.  

    Read more: http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2010/06/yossi-benayoun-yet-another-victim-of.html#comments#ixzz0phy9Oiem

  124. JK, I'm quite surprised and disappointed you've written this article. Your site refers to rejecting media hype yet you write an an article about Benayoun on the basis of a quote written in the Daily Mail; the very same newspaper that you sarcastically referred to as the "bastion of football journalism" only five days ago.

    Two points that I'd like to make:

    If Yossi was so unhappy with the situation at Liverpool, why did he sign a new contract extension in July 2009. Since joining in 2007 he has been used in a similar fashion, both in terms of postion; most on the left and occasionally on the right, and in terms of appearances.  

    2007-08 - started 25 games (PL, FA, CL, CC) and 19 apps as a sub.  
    2008-09 - started 24 games and 15 apps as a sub.
    2009-10 - started 26 games and 14 apps as a sub.

    So in July 2009 having started 24 games that season he was happy enough at Liverpool to sign a contract extension. Yet now in May/June 2010 having started 26 games (I believe it would have been more had it not been for missing approx 7 weeks through injuries at various stages of the season) he isn't happy and wants to leave. Seems odd.

    Allow me to show you a quote from The Mail Online from April 2010.

    "I have three more years left on my contract here at Liverpool but I’d rather concentrate on the present and see out this disappointing season," he told The Mail Online.

    "As far as I am concerned, failure to reach the Champions League should not be a reason not to continue at Liverpool. At the moment, I’m at one of the world’s biggest clubs and I’m enjoying it here.

    "I have a few good seasons left in me and hope that the pinnacle of my career is still ahead. I still might receive an offer in the future which could not be turned down. Who knows?"

    Granted he does say that if an offer comes along that can't be turned down then he would consider leaving? But which person wouldn't consider an offer. I have a good job but if offered another job I would certainly consider it.

    However the most important part of the quote is that he says  that he is enjoying it at Liverpool! Just a month or so ago Benayoun is enjoying it at Liverpool. Not disillusioned, or unhappy about not being in the team regularly, or unhappy with the manager or even unhappy with our poor season. He is enjoying it at Liverpool. But how is that possible with the "Benitez Effect"? It seems JK that you have fallen for the same media hype that you claim to reject. This is a complete non-story unless Benayoun actually leaves, and as far as I can tell he is still a Liverpool player.

  125. Gary - please show me where in my original article I make reference to Benayoun's quotes...

    I don't.  My post is not based on the Daily Mail's quotes; it's based on what I know from my sources.

    I make reference to Benayoun's quote in the *comments* section, but that's only because I know the quote is true, irrespective of whether The Daily Mail reported it.

    I've posted several articles in which I outline my reasoning behind why Benayoun has been mishandled, so I won't repeat myself here.

  126. I do think there is something in this with regards Benitez's management style, but I see similar things with Capello and England and countless other managers (including my own!!)

    One thing that is interesting is that I seem to remember Crouch getting nothing but public support from RB during his 17 game (correct me if I'm wrong) goal-less run in his first season. Most of the media, fans etc... were laughing at us for sticking with him. The biggest problem for him was the arrival of Torres and Rafa's obsession with playing one up front.

  127. Oh ok your sources! That's ok then. So every other journalist in the country doesn't know for a fact that Yossi is off but you do. Right. And the only quote in the media that you can find about the topic is from the Daily Mail.

    I know that you've written previously on why you "think" Yossi has been mishandled but please answer my question - why would he sign a contract extension 11 months ago if he was unhappy with the way Rafa has treated him. Rafa hasn't changed in that time. The way Rafa utilises Yossi hasn't changed either, in fact I believe Yossi would have played more games last season if it hadn't been for his injuries - in the first half of the season he was regularly starting for Liverpool.

  128. Jaimie, in YOUR opinion Benayoun was the better option than Maxi. If Benayoun consistently scored goals and gained assists why on earth would Rafa play Maxi over him? Rafa trains with his players every day, knows their form, fitness, morale etc. He has a certain tactical approach for each game and chooses his players based on who he thinks is the best option for each position. Sometimes he can gamble with some players or give them a chance to try prove themselves, other times he has to do do what it takes to get the result. His job, team and reputation are on the line, if Benayoun was the better option in games where he played Maxi, then what reason would he have to not play him? He's not stupid, I say this with certainty, he knows the game and his players 100 times better than you and I, and I trust he does his best to make the right decision under certain circumstances.

  129. You are fantastic at inaccurately paraphrasing me.

    Did I say 'I know for a fact;' that Yossi is leaving?  NO.  I said I know that the quote he made is true.  Furthermore, in my article I wrote:

    With his transfer to Chelsea seemingly imminent

    Seemingly; i.e. based on the information available at the time.

    Just because the DM reported the quote doesn't make it less accurate.  Sometimes, they get it right! The Guardian also reported the quote, along with plenty of other credible news sources.

  130. <span>

    my thinking exactly.
    the capello analogy is spot on - the biggest difference with rafa and cappelo is in thier lieutenants cappelos is 2nd to none where as rafas set up is now somewhat unconvincing.
    Theirs styles are similar both have a detachment from the players day to day , an aloof position as some have seen.However the style is proven - it’s a mantra of discipline used by many rather like a military setup.
    In all honesty I cant see change with the current setup a better lieutenant for rafa maynot be enough?
    Im dreading any type of staggering start to the new season if it doesn’t go right rafa will be hounded and changing mid term is always a disaster.
    Im peed off with it all right now -id welcome change yet it must be a positive one.
    I recall a prediction rafa may well move once june is over(monetary contract reasons) - is this still the prediction?

  131. Yes, it is still a prediction.  Well, it's not really a prediction per se.  I stated on the site's facebook page about a month ago that there were things going on behind the scenes to facilitate Benitez's departure from Anfield, and unless there was a serious mistake, this would definitely happen.  Of course, no one believe me - and I was unable to give further details (or post an article) for obvious reasons.

    The behind the scenes stuff is coming to light now though, and it's exactly as I predicted:


  132. its simple...there r no good or bad idea or prediction for liverpool situation..dont simply too negatively and dont simply to positively...
    there r still a lot of good bout rafa and you have to admit..
    for me he got his own style....its depend on the player to accept positively or not...and if yes, his can be considered as profesional as well as rafa always said...coz rafa juz wanna to have the best of the team that he think..

    also, its bit harsh if you dont accept other point frm others that may be considered as point of view...for me, the beauty of any debate or discussion is juz to accept each other rather than condemn each other...

    we can show everything statiscally but statistic is not everything. Yes, the striker is refering to score a goal..but to score a goal is not everything for a striker. Striker may can be also assist or open space to others. Its good to have 20+ goal strikers. But its such a very effective team if every attacking players produtce JUS 10+ GOAL in a season..so that the team is can be very dangerous at all areas. SO, statistic is juz a major control to analyse thing in football. but not everything. socring or assists is not show their true quality.

    But, for what i know bout bennayoun that he is not that fit to play every game in row..its show on his performance because something he doesnt change benna in starting lineup..but mostly, bennayoun will be subs after the certain period...And also, his brilliant is extremely effective as secret weapon or reserved weapon for the team...

    FOr those player who blame of his previous manager, its show their own prefsionalism level. Even your ex-manager doing bad to u when u r in that club, as profesional, u have to thank them. Coz these manager educate u in new area or new experience as a player.. Player should be thank rather than blame

    So, i do believe there r no benitez effect in liverpool. Its juz dont too negatively about rafa. Plz b accept him as a part of liverpool rather than blame him for the cronic season. 

  133. And you sir are fantastic at ignoring perfectly valid questions.

    The facts that I have shown above, i.e. that Rafa hs utilised Yossi in exactly the same way in the 3 years that he has been at Liverpool yet Yossi was still happy to sign an contract extension in July 2009 basically shows the the so called "Benites effect" is not the reason for Yossi deciding to leave. Had this been the reason why would he have signed a contract extension? Surely if he hates it so much he would leave not extend his contract right? Seems fairly obvious to me.  

    I've asked this question twice and believe it is a valid question yet you have chosen to ignore it twice. Maybe its because it dispoves your "Benitez Effect" theory.

  134. Jaimie Kanwar your Liverpool-kop website is a joke.

    I posted 2 non offensive, post on here yesterday, you dilerbratly didn't put them on.

    They weren't offensive, they were to do with season tickets price increase.

    I made an observation, you didn't like it so you censored it.

    That's just not on.

    You will probably not post this one too.

    Well 'am just gonna keep copying and pasting it every 10 mins or so.

    At least some people WILL get to see it !

  135. Zan - you posted under the name of '<span>sparq2112' yesterday and spent your time slagging off me and the site in a way that breaches the comment policy. If you click your username, you will see your previous posts. The policy is clear: any posts that contain derogatory comments will be deleted. </span>

    You are welcome to post your views; you can tear what i write to shreds, but only if you do it in the right manner.  That means no derogatory comments (against me, other posters or players/staff etc) and no slagging off the site.

  136. 'I HAD TO BE SOLD TO GET FUNDS FOR NEW PLAYERS' if the owners gave Rafa the money to buy Barry first then Alonso would not have been put in position.Is it still Rafa's fault that Yossi is leaving or could it have been Yossi that wanted to leave and used Rafa as his excuse .

  137. Very underated player, really wish we could have ket him, creativty is rare these days.


  138. In my opinion Benayoun was our best player last season, he's creative, he can score goals, a great passer of the ball and he was consistant, very few players can be credited with any of these attributes this season...

    TP Trampolines

  139. We miss Javier Mascherano so much at the moment, really wish he didn't have to leave.

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