In April 2009, Holland coach Marco Van Basten criticised Rafael Benitez’s handling of Ryan Babel, noting that the player had taken a step backward since his arrival at Anfield. This week, Babel has once again expressed his dissatisfaction with the way he is treated at Liverpool. Has Babel failed or is Rafa Benitez to blame for not giving the player a consistent chance? In my view, there is only one answer.
In April, Van Basten argued:
“If you look at Ryan Babel, it is a mortal sin he now sits on the bench at Liverpool. He was playing well in Holland and for the Under-21s but now he has taken a step backwards.”
This week, Babel made his frustration clear:
"I have tried to talk to the manager but it isn't of any use. I couldn't really do anything with the feedback [he] gave me. We have agreed to look at my situation during the winter. If there's no improvement then, I have to be honest, I want to play somewhere else. I don't play a lot so I can't be happy and I can't cheer out loud.
"Certain emotions are blocked, they are pushed back by all the worries I carry with me. Sometimes I wonder how long I can sustain it but I will fight for my position - what else can I do?".
This is not the first time Babel has expressed his frustration in public; In September, he said:
"There have been a lot of things promised but they haven't been followed up," Babel said. "I would get to play for more minutes and have more chances but, after the first defeat, I lost my place.
"Half a season at Ajax with a view to the World Cup wouldn't be a bad idea. I can add something to their squad. Loaning me out was not an option in the summer. Now we have agreed to review the situation in January."
Babel cost £11.5m and inarguably has huge potential - the question is has he been given the chance to fulfil that potential?
I would argue that the answer is NO.
As we've all seen, Rafa loves his facts, so let’s consider some facts about Ryan Babel:
2007-08: Babel’s first season
53 appearances
Starts - 29
On the bench - 24 times
Subbed – 21 times
Unused sub – 4 games
Goals - 11
Assists - 6
Minutes on pitch: 2553
Average minutes on pitch: 48
Goals per minute - 1/232
Goals/Assists per minute: 1 every 150 minutes
Analysis
- Subbed or on the bench in 82% of games
- Subbed in 72% of games started
- Scored 11 goals. On 10 occasions, dropped to the bench for the next game.
VERDICT: A good first season. 11 goals and 6 assists (despite being in and out of the team) was an excellent return for a midfielder. The potential was there, and obvious next step was to develop the potential in Babel's second season.
2008-09
42 appearances
Starts – 13
On the bench – 29 times
Subbed – 4 times
Unused sub – 6 times
Goals - 4
Assists - 5
Minutes on pitch: 1542
Average minutes on pitch: 36
Goals per minute - 1/385
Goals/Assists per minute: 1 every 171 minutes
Analysis
- Subbed or on the bench in 79% of games
- Subbed in 30% of games started
- 70% of games won with Babel starting
- Never started more than 2 games in a row for the entire season
VERDICT: As a reward for a good first season, Babel's pitch time was cut by 60%! Great man-management there. Instead of developing Babel, Benitez demotivated the player, and this was obvious from his dimished creative return.
2009-10
17 appearances
Starts – 4
On the bench – 13 times
Subbed – 4 times
Unused sub – 3 times
Goals - 3
Assists - 2
Minutes on pitch: 478
Average minutes on pitch: 28
Goals per minute: 1/159
Goals/Assists per minute: 1 every 95 minutes
Analysis
- Subbed or on the bench in 100% of games
- Subbed in 100% of games started so far.
VERDICT SO FAR: Babel's pitch time has been cut again; Benitez continues todemotivate the player, who has twice expressed his growing frustration in the public.
GRAND TOTALS
110 appearances
46 Starts
On the bench: 64 times
Subbed: 29 times
Unused sub: 13 times
Goals - 18
Assists - 13
Total minutes on pitch: 4573
Average minutes on pitch: 41
Average goals per minute: 1/254
Average goals/assists per minute: 1/147
Analysis
- Subbed or on the bench in 85% of games
- Subbed in 63% of starts
- Average minutes on pitch decreasing every year:
* 07-08: Average 48 mins
* 08-09: Average 36 mins
* 09-10: Average 28 mins
- Dirk Kuyt minutes on pitch last season: 4509
- Babel minutes on pitch since arrival: 4573
- Dirk Kuyt minutes on pitch since arrival: 13121
With these figures in mind, consider the following questions:
1. Has Babel been given any kind of chance to establish himself at Liverpool?
2. Has he been allowed to flourish in any way?
3. Has he been allowed a consistent run of games *ever*?
4. Given the fact that in his first season, he was dropped to the bench TEN TIMES after scoring goals, has he been treated fairly in this respect? (the same pattern has repeated itself every season whenever Babel scores/creates goals).
5. Is there any justification for the unfair treatment of Babel?
6. Has Benitez developed Babel's undoubted potential in the last 2 years?
7. Is the favouritism shown towards Dirk Kuyt and Lucas justifiable? Both players are given every opportunity to play themselves into form, yet Babel struggles to start two games in a row.
In the last 18 hours of football, Kuyt has managed 1 measly assist, yet he still starts every game. And what about Lucas? In the last 54 hours of football, Lucas has contributed a grand total of one assist. Despite this, is he dropped/subbed every game? No. In the last 36 starts, Lucas has been subbed off only 3 times.
The most important questions for me are these: How many more players is Benitez going to alienate/misuse? Do we want players to be treated this way at Liverpool FC?
The answer has to be no, yet some pigheaded fans just refuse to accept the truth that Rafa’s treatment of certain players over the years has been inexcusable.
Fans often seem to criticise Babel for his alleged lack of drive during his sporadic appearances, but how would you react when your manager has damaged your career, never given you a fair chance, constantly played you in the wrong position and made it abundantly clear that he has no faith in you?
For some reason, the 'Rafa can do no wrong' brigade are unwilling to accept that it is practically impossible for a player to get into any kind of rhythm/build understanding with team-mates/build confidence etc when subjected to the kind of treatment meted out to Robbie Keane, Babel, and before them, Peter Crouch.
This kind of treatment is one of the principal reasons I am not a fan of Benitez and his way of doing things. Fans might not care about the likes of Keane and Babel, but just watch them change their tune when one of their favourites starts suffering from the Benitez effect.
If Ryan Babel wants to save his career and actually progress as a player, he has only one option: leave Liverpool and go to a club where he will treated fairly and given a consistent chance to prove himself.
For any player, leaving Liverpool can only be a step down, but Benitez has made it unambiguously clear that he is NEVER going to give Babel a proper chance. And after the player's comments this week, Benitez is unlikely to be persuaded to give him a run of games in the future.
Benitez apologists will predictably be on Babel's back over his comments, but although making criticisms in public is never the way forward, I completely understand Babel's frustration.
And I hope he does actually move in January, because to stay at the club under the Benitez regime would be continued career suicide.
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In April, Van Basten argued:
“If you look at Ryan Babel, it is a mortal sin he now sits on the bench at Liverpool. He was playing well in Holland and for the Under-21s but now he has taken a step backwards.”
This week, Babel made his frustration clear:
"I have tried to talk to the manager but it isn't of any use. I couldn't really do anything with the feedback [he] gave me. We have agreed to look at my situation during the winter. If there's no improvement then, I have to be honest, I want to play somewhere else. I don't play a lot so I can't be happy and I can't cheer out loud.
"Certain emotions are blocked, they are pushed back by all the worries I carry with me. Sometimes I wonder how long I can sustain it but I will fight for my position - what else can I do?".
This is not the first time Babel has expressed his frustration in public; In September, he said:
"There have been a lot of things promised but they haven't been followed up," Babel said. "I would get to play for more minutes and have more chances but, after the first defeat, I lost my place.
"Half a season at Ajax with a view to the World Cup wouldn't be a bad idea. I can add something to their squad. Loaning me out was not an option in the summer. Now we have agreed to review the situation in January."
Babel cost £11.5m and inarguably has huge potential - the question is has he been given the chance to fulfil that potential?
I would argue that the answer is NO.
As we've all seen, Rafa loves his facts, so let’s consider some facts about Ryan Babel:
2007-08: Babel’s first season
53 appearances
Starts - 29
On the bench - 24 times
Subbed – 21 times
Unused sub – 4 games
Goals - 11
Assists - 6
Minutes on pitch: 2553
Average minutes on pitch: 48
Goals per minute - 1/232
Goals/Assists per minute: 1 every 150 minutes
Analysis
- Subbed or on the bench in 82% of games
- Subbed in 72% of games started
- Scored 11 goals. On 10 occasions, dropped to the bench for the next game.
VERDICT: A good first season. 11 goals and 6 assists (despite being in and out of the team) was an excellent return for a midfielder. The potential was there, and obvious next step was to develop the potential in Babel's second season.
2008-09
42 appearances
Starts – 13
On the bench – 29 times
Subbed – 4 times
Unused sub – 6 times
Goals - 4
Assists - 5
Minutes on pitch: 1542
Average minutes on pitch: 36
Goals per minute - 1/385
Goals/Assists per minute: 1 every 171 minutes
Analysis
- Subbed or on the bench in 79% of games
- Subbed in 30% of games started
- 70% of games won with Babel starting
- Never started more than 2 games in a row for the entire season
VERDICT: As a reward for a good first season, Babel's pitch time was cut by 60%! Great man-management there. Instead of developing Babel, Benitez demotivated the player, and this was obvious from his dimished creative return.
2009-10
17 appearances
Starts – 4
On the bench – 13 times
Subbed – 4 times
Unused sub – 3 times
Goals - 3
Assists - 2
Minutes on pitch: 478
Average minutes on pitch: 28
Goals per minute: 1/159
Goals/Assists per minute: 1 every 95 minutes
Analysis
- Subbed or on the bench in 100% of games
- Subbed in 100% of games started so far.
VERDICT SO FAR: Babel's pitch time has been cut again; Benitez continues todemotivate the player, who has twice expressed his growing frustration in the public.
GRAND TOTALS
110 appearances
46 Starts
On the bench: 64 times
Subbed: 29 times
Unused sub: 13 times
Goals - 18
Assists - 13
Total minutes on pitch: 4573
Average minutes on pitch: 41
Average goals per minute: 1/254
Average goals/assists per minute: 1/147
Analysis
- Subbed or on the bench in 85% of games
- Subbed in 63% of starts
- Average minutes on pitch decreasing every year:
* 07-08: Average 48 mins
* 08-09: Average 36 mins
* 09-10: Average 28 mins
- Dirk Kuyt minutes on pitch last season: 4509
- Babel minutes on pitch since arrival: 4573
- Dirk Kuyt minutes on pitch since arrival: 13121
With these figures in mind, consider the following questions:
1. Has Babel been given any kind of chance to establish himself at Liverpool?
2. Has he been allowed to flourish in any way?
3. Has he been allowed a consistent run of games *ever*?
4. Given the fact that in his first season, he was dropped to the bench TEN TIMES after scoring goals, has he been treated fairly in this respect? (the same pattern has repeated itself every season whenever Babel scores/creates goals).
5. Is there any justification for the unfair treatment of Babel?
6. Has Benitez developed Babel's undoubted potential in the last 2 years?
7. Is the favouritism shown towards Dirk Kuyt and Lucas justifiable? Both players are given every opportunity to play themselves into form, yet Babel struggles to start two games in a row.
In the last 18 hours of football, Kuyt has managed 1 measly assist, yet he still starts every game. And what about Lucas? In the last 54 hours of football, Lucas has contributed a grand total of one assist. Despite this, is he dropped/subbed every game? No. In the last 36 starts, Lucas has been subbed off only 3 times.
The most important questions for me are these: How many more players is Benitez going to alienate/misuse? Do we want players to be treated this way at Liverpool FC?
The answer has to be no, yet some pigheaded fans just refuse to accept the truth that Rafa’s treatment of certain players over the years has been inexcusable.
Fans often seem to criticise Babel for his alleged lack of drive during his sporadic appearances, but how would you react when your manager has damaged your career, never given you a fair chance, constantly played you in the wrong position and made it abundantly clear that he has no faith in you?
For some reason, the 'Rafa can do no wrong' brigade are unwilling to accept that it is practically impossible for a player to get into any kind of rhythm/build understanding with team-mates/build confidence etc when subjected to the kind of treatment meted out to Robbie Keane, Babel, and before them, Peter Crouch.
This kind of treatment is one of the principal reasons I am not a fan of Benitez and his way of doing things. Fans might not care about the likes of Keane and Babel, but just watch them change their tune when one of their favourites starts suffering from the Benitez effect.
If Ryan Babel wants to save his career and actually progress as a player, he has only one option: leave Liverpool and go to a club where he will treated fairly and given a consistent chance to prove himself.
For any player, leaving Liverpool can only be a step down, but Benitez has made it unambiguously clear that he is NEVER going to give Babel a proper chance. And after the player's comments this week, Benitez is unlikely to be persuaded to give him a run of games in the future.
Benitez apologists will predictably be on Babel's back over his comments, but although making criticisms in public is never the way forward, I completely understand Babel's frustration.
And I hope he does actually move in January, because to stay at the club under the Benitez regime would be continued career suicide.
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really outstanding article. nice.
ReplyDeletei think babel can be credited with being the victim of his own downfall. too often when on the pitch he lets himself & the red jersey down. he has undoubted talent, but for me he doesnt put this talent to use when given the opportunity. he has a languid attitude.
ReplyDeleteThe only person Ryan Babel has to blame, is Ryan Babel.
ReplyDeleteHis attitude stinks and he should have been shipped out last summer. He seems to be more interested in Twitter and his Music Career. Every time he gets a chance, he flounces around the pitch like he cant be bothered and I would not waste my time on him.
It's a shame because he has got talent but he really does not care.
I forgot how good Babel's stats were in his first season....massive shame he got injured on Saturday. I would love to see him get an extended run in the team.
ReplyDeleteI think this is Rafa's control freak nature coming through. He doesn't like unpredictable players, or players that don't follow his instructions to the letter - this is why he shows such faith in Lucas, Kuyt and Aurelio (when fit!) As fans we'd prefer to see the exciting players who entertain, and to some degree produce more (when comparing Kuyt to Babel.)
To my mind, it's a wonder that Benayoun has been given so much match time this season...maybe Benitez is changing (probably too slowly and too late) or maybe it is down to Benayoun playing in a way which has adapted to Benitez?
Ultimately it's a results business and I don't care how we win (save for diving and cheating) as long as we do to be honest ;)
Also you've got to accept that our most successfull season (league-wise) was 08-09, without Babel playing that much, coincidence?
YNWA
Anyone who has watch Ryan Babel consistently for 90 minutes over the course of the time he has been with us knows that a) he has had chances and b) he is not good enough to play for Liverpool FC
ReplyDeletesorry disagree with this article--whilst I think Benitez has failed miserably with his project at liverpool and should be replaced asap, i find no justification for supporting giving Babel more game time, am a season ticket holder and honestly cant remember him playing well during his period at liverpool
ReplyDeleteI agree his time on pitch is decreasing and that there's no question of his ability, however having ability and displaying it week in, week out, are two vastly different things that I feel Babel is unfortunately a shining example of.
ReplyDeleteThe most recent piece of evidence as to why Babel hasn't played as much as you feel he should have was against Lyon. He scored a quite brilliant goal, under pressure and when we needed it most, followed by his free kick that nearly went out for a throw by the the half-way line. I find that sort of thing completely unacceptable from a good position, wide of the box. Gerrard's FK against Brum is what should've happened, instead we look like unpracticed buffoons in the eyes of the world's media, with Babel at centre stage.
He had his chance against Man City and once injured looked keen to be taken off.
Van Basten and Babel can say what they want but until he performs on the pitch then both Rafa and Van Basten will think twice about playing him against the Man Utds and Argentinas of this world from the start.
I think he epitomises everything that is bad about modern football and the sky sports generation - I want it now; me, me, me.
ReplyDeleteRyan Babel is an ungrateful schmuck how cant perform under pressure.
ReplyDeleteLook at how intolerant you are being! Babel scores a superb goal against Lyon and you're slagging him off for hitting a poor free-kick in the same game?!
ReplyDeleteIf it was Gerrard who'd scored that goal it would be a different story, I'm sure.
What are the benefits of yet another negative article on Rafa & as I see it, the team & LFC also, hours before a crucial game????
ReplyDeleteRyan Babel is an ungrateful schmuck who cant perform under pressure.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, but with stronger guidance at Liverpool from Benitez, perhaps he might not have turned out that way. Babel's motivation has been shattered by Benitez, so his mind drifts elsewhere and he begins to lose focus.
ReplyDeleteListen to yourself! Babel has 18 goals and 13 assists since arriving at Anfield and you have the gall to argue that you 'honestly can't remember him playing well' during his time with Liverpool?!
ReplyDeleteThat has to be the least credible argument I've ever heard. Why are ou in denial? Are you so wrapped up in your irrational hatred for Babel that you cannot be fair?
I wish the owners would read this,i cant believe whats happening at our club.If babel had gone to arsenal hed be a world beater now.Im welsh and so glad we didnt sign aaron ramsey as benitez would have ruined him too.How mant more games is it going to take before rafa goes....
ReplyDeleteit is not negativity, it is truth, and the truth hurts. I will keep highlighting valid points like this because this kind of treatment of players is the antithesis of everything LFC stands for. And what difference does it make if I publish this a few hours before kick-off?! What I write has absolutely no bearing on the game tonight. None at all. Do you think Benitez sits at his deks and worries because I (or some other website) has criticised him?! he is a professional. It's water off a duck's back to him. Benitez is wise enough to know that criticism goes with the territory.
ReplyDeleteSo you're saying that Benitez is not responsible in any way for Babel failing to realise his potential?
ReplyDeleteThis is Liverpool’s Ryan Babel, talking on the eve of the Champions League game with Debrecen tonight. “I have shown I can do it plenty of times. I know I could be further in my career but if nobody helps you, if they don’t make it easier for you then it is difficult.”
ReplyDeleteClearly, then, not one for introspection. The Dutch forward has made a habit of criticising his manager, his team-mates, cruel fate and his general dissatisfaction with life on Anfield’s periphery. He wants to “discuss his future” in January, wants to know where he stands, wants to ask what the future holds. The problem is he will direct those questions at Rafael Benitez, when only the player himself can provide the answers.
Yet when he departs Melwood, Liverpool’s training base, for the last time in January, as now seems certain, few of those who regularly visit Anfield will miss him. He has become the Kop’s bete noire, his cameos from the bench soundtracked by groans and complaint, rather than accompanied by a tingle of electricity. One colleague remarked to me last season that he looked like “he’d borrowed someone else’s legs”. The £6 million or so Liverpool would pocket from his sale – or even the space on the wage bill freed up by a loan move back to Ajax – is of more use to a club with a paper-thin squad than a full Dutch international, so sour has that 2007 dream turned. Liverpool need the money, and they literally cannot afford to carry passengers. Even promise is not enough, not if it’s as fleeting, as occasional, as Babel’s.
To Babel, of course, this is because Benitez has never trusted him, despite his hugely exciting first season – his goal against Derby, shimmying effortlessly to hoodwink two defenders, then firing past a stranded Stephen Bywater, won him the hearts of the Kop, who know a thing or two about potential – and the glimpses of his ability since then, most recently with that thunderous strike against Lyon. His team-mates do not pass to him, do not like him, the Hispanophone players sticking together off the field, at a club split into cliques. It’s everyone else’s fault.
Yet consider the example of one of Babel’s confidantes, and the man who was unveiled alongside him on a balmy July day two years ago. Benayoun’s signing was greeted with dismay by Liverpool’s fans, unconvinced that a West Ham squad man was fit to wear their number 15 shirt, let alone the 11 of Steve McMahon, Ian Callaghan, Jamie Redknapp (fine midfielder, truly, indescribably awful pundit) and, er, Vladimir Smicer he started off in. For 18 months, Benitez seemed to agree, allowing him only the briefest of cameos from the bench, and every so often, the quotes would appear, Benayoun cutting the disillusioned, dejected figure Babel does now.
But Benayoun learned. It’s hard to say when he learned, or even what he learned, but it all changed in the Bernabeu in February, the smallest man on the field leaping highest and, with one glance of his slightly jaundiced head, revitalising Liverpool’s season. Since that game, he has been Liverpool’s best player, bar none, for nine months. Benayoun cost £5.5 million. He was the junior partner when he and Babel signed. Now he is worth £20 million, at least. Along with Pepe Reina, Daniel Agger, Jamie Carragher, Glen Johnson, Javier Mascherano, Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres, he is part of Liverpool’s core. He is, possibly, the best schemer, as they used to be called, in English football today.
Maybe because Benayoun grew up playing on the streets of Dimona, in Israel’s Negev desert, while Babel was cosseted and feted as a star in Ajax’s youth academy their attitudes to hard work, to diligence and patience are different. Babel can blame his coach for [...]
Jaimie, i think you will find that the problem lies more with Ryan Babel, rather than Rafa. Here's a good piece for you to read... but then again it doesnt suit your purpose of having a chance to lambast Rafa at every turn. But go on enlighten yourself.
ReplyDeletehttp://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rorysmith/100003867/only-one-man-to-blame-for-the-fall-in-power-of-babel/
He started 11 out of 12 games from Feb 2008.
ReplyDeleteBabel is a liar.
Go look it up.
Yes thats what he is saying. I agree.
ReplyDeleteBabel has a bad attitude, he is not right for liverpool, his heart is not in it.I am happy at seeing him come off the bech for the last 10 minutes and try and impact with his pace, because lets face it thats all he has, DIOUF was a much better player than him at his age and in a similar mould. Lets just get rid of him - put it down to poor judgement and buy someone who is willing to work hard for their place in the first 11. Without spouting off to the media about how unhappy he is and moaning that he can't wear his favourite BLUE boots - what a complete numpty!!
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Rafa had won a couple of premier titles what kind of carte blanche he would earn with 'pool fans!!! Jeez, apparently he can never be wrong. Well, in the end it works out for the other teams.
ReplyDeleteBabel's problem seems to be a lack of game intelligence. He seems to be tactically inept, and does not carry out the defensive duties that are required well. He biggest impacts are when he comes on towards the end of games when the game is already stretched out, and in this position he was won games for Liverpool. however when he starts a game he is often a liability, and I cannot think of many games that he has started and had much of an influence on. I am from the school of thought that says that you mollycoddle apprentices and lowly paid employees while they develop, but someone good enough to earn £1 million per year needs to perform and should not need an arm around their shoulder..
ReplyDeleteThis is a great article and again proves to the blind Benetiz lovers that Rafa is so biased to his love childs Kuyt and Lucas. Both have been given games and games where they are ineffective. Babel has a bad 10 minutes and hes dropped. Wake up everybody Rafa has to GO!
ReplyDeleteBabel needs to leave to save his career. Had he ended at Arsenal we would have seen the Henry type of player.
Remember the time he was warming up with his trainers on midway through the 2nd half? I wouldn't have had him about the place after that. Immature and unprofessional, no matter what the root cause.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you ask the question WHY he has turned out this way? This is the key issue. If he had a 'bad attitude' Benitez wouldn't have bought him in the first place, would he?!
ReplyDeleteThe point I am trying to get across here is that as a result of his treatment, Babel has gone down the wrong path. It's no point just saying ;he has a bad attitude' - we need to understand the reasons why.
Anyway, it's always the same excuse with players Benitez has alienated, whether it's Keane, Crouch, Pennant, Alonso, Finnan or Babel - it's always the player who has the problem, never Benitez.
Sorry, but if I'm not mistaken, didn't Crouch play something like 19/20 games in a row without scoring, and yet Benitez kept faith in the player? This is the same Benitez who apparently meted out bad treatment to Crouch? Doesn't sound like bad treatment to me... And you know why Benitez treated Crocuh like that? Because though even though, Crouch wasn't scoring, he was trying... Show me a game where Babel has tried his heart out (and I'm talking about his first season as well), and I'll show you a pig flying across the sky... There's no doubt the lad has potential, he's always had it. But I'd rather Benayoun out on that wing then Babel, and the same for Kuyt. If babel showed an ounce of fight that Kuyt does, then it's a no brainer, put Babel in. But he just doesn't show it!!!
ReplyDeleteand Jamie, how do you know what Babel said is the truth? You believe the American owners, you believe what the media has said, you believe what our competitors have said but the turth is that your dislike of Rafa has blinded or rather make your mind blinded by what is the truth. The truth I can see from the matches that Babel when given the opportunities had never really taken it. Yes, a player can have great potential but without a right attitude is absolutely nonsense.
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't he let Babel leave the club then?
ReplyDeleteBenitez has done a lot of things that I've not agreed with but Ryan Babel is not one of them.
ReplyDeleteHe is blaming Rafa, his team mates and event the colour of his boots. Not once has he even acknowledged his own failures. He does not deserve to wear the shirt and sooner he is gone, the better. His mentality is shocking.
A professional athlete who is openly begging for a chance to play is unable to keep focus for 90 minutes? Where is his mind drifitng exactly?
ReplyDeleteyour articles are very good and becoming better! keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteThe season where we record our best points tally in the Premier League and babel plays next to no part. There is a fact Jamie. Now piss off to Scott the Red and discuss Man United as we do not need negative supporters around. Not from Liverpool are you Jamie? Maybe take a leaf out of the other non Liverpool based supporters and learn that we support the team and manager through thick and thin. If thats not you then go and spend your time with Scott on Republik of Mancunia whilst they spout their bile about Liverpool
ReplyDeleteAnd he was subbed off in 10 of those starts! You are missing the point.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with JK. Babel has talent but its been wasted by a manager who doesn't posess any man management skills, refuses to play him down the middle with Torres and has destroyed his confidence because no matter what he does he know's he will be subbed. Ngog is useless and Babel should be given the chance to cover for Torres. Benitez is contributing to his own failures by refusing to drop the worst Brazillian footballer i have ever seen which means Liverpool play with 10 men every game Lucas starts. There is no creativity from midfield and yet all you numpties blame the bloke thats meant to turn useless passes into goals. Its Benitez's failures in the transfer market, his inability to realise that Alonso needed replacing last April, his continual picking of Lucas, no back up for Torres, no commanding central defender, the list of errors is endless. Just watch Aquilani hand in a transfer request because Lucas will keep him out. Liverpool out of CL, LC, PL title and will probably miss 4th spot. Gerrard will never win the PL with Benitez. Get him and the Yanks out, the Arabs in with Mourinho and then get a large Trophy case.
ReplyDeleteAnd if it was Gerrard doing the same you would, of course, have the same attitude towards it, right?
ReplyDeleteMy article is not based around what Babel said - the wuotes are just for reference. The article is based around Benitez's failure to give Babel a consistent chance for the last three years.
ReplyDeleteJamie i disagree and agree with you at times. I agree with you this time. Guys please read my points and let me know if you think i'm wrong on this, because i strongly feel if Babel played for Arsenal he would be the next Thierry Henry. In fact if he played for ANY other team he would be a great player. Babel is a FORWARD - a striker mainly but also capable of playing in the forward three of a 4-3-3. Watch Babel for Holland - he is awesome, look what he did to England in the last Holland vs England match.
ReplyDeleteHowever Benitez forces him to think of defence first. He plays him on the left, tells him to concentrate on tracking backand NEVER plays him as a strike partner for Torres. Imagine Torres and Babel togethor - remember what Babel did against Arsenal in the champions league - now imagine Torres AND Babel TOGETHOR with Gerard supplying them!!
Or how about putting Babel on the right - remember the assist he got for Torres, when he crossed it beautifully for torres to score a header (earlier this season). That was the only time in the last TWO seasons i can remember Babel playing on the right. Babel is right footed, surely if your going to <span>not</span> play him as a striker, you should play him on the right!?? Does Benitez put Kuyt on the left? No. why not? because Kuyt would be awful there, he cant use his left foot. so why should Babel be forced to play on the left?
Also Babel is put on the pitch usually when Liverpool are chasing the game - so he feels he needs to do 'something' and make an impact. But he also knows even if he does make an impact he wont play the next game. How can he get any rhythm when he joins a game cold, and then feels pressured to do something spectacular, and at the back of his mind he knows doing the spectacular still wont get him a start in the next game.
Benitez keeps knocking his confidence - and football is mostly about confidence. If babel scores and plays well, he knows it will not mean anything to Benitez, he'll most likely end up on the subs bench. if that happens for a month maybe you can deal with it, two or three months it will knock your confidene. TWO AND A HALF YEARS of this treatment would destroy any player.
The most telling thing that Babel suggested is that no-one knows what Benitez is going to do - not even his own players!! Anyone whos played football at any level would understand why Babel hasnt performed to his full potential this season and last season - he's been pushed into a corner by Benitez and as a lover of football i want him to leave liverpool before his talent is ruined.
One last point - Kuyt like Jamie says has lots of indifferent, poor performances. Yet how often does he get subbed? Almost never. Same goes for Lucas. They both give the ball away a lot, they both dont provide much, they both give away a lot of fouls. But they keep getting chosen because they gie the impression of 'working hard.' If thats all liverpool are good for - for hard workers then why dont Liverpool get rid of all their class players and buy 11 nicky Butts or 11 David Battys - or 11 Kuyt's?
Benitez Does NOT treat players equally. Certain players play badly but get 10, 20, 30 starts in a row. Some players (crouch, keane, babel, alonso etc.) would play well then get dropped for no reason. Remember Gerrard complained about Benitez putting him on the left, putting him on the right. and he was in his mid 20s and mature. Babel has been mistreated since he arrive as a 20 year old. he deserves better and liverpool deserve a better more attacking manager.
I thought this was supposed to be a Liverpool website. All that I ever see on here is a constant stream of attacks on Benitez. It's ok saying that you have to be free to question but you also have a responsibility to balance things out and there is no balance at all on this website.
ReplyDeleteBenitez isn't perfect, we all know that but none of us are. I don't doubt he is more distant than other managers but it hasn't stopped Gerrard and Torres flourishing. Carragher, Masherano, Agger, Kuyt, Skyrtel and Reina seem to be ok. Insua has progressed pretty well. Benayoun seems to be doing alright. Lucas appears to be developing quite nicely now and has been one of our best players this season so far. We don't see reports praising Benitez for these players it isn't fair to criticise him for the lack of development of one.
I like Babel as a player he obviously has lots of quality but he doesn't show it often enough and when things are not going his way he also has an unfortunate tendancy to mouth off. If he can't take the heat he can always get out of the kitchen.
Where id I say he's unable to keep focus for 90 minutes? I'm talking more about off the pitc activities (Twitter/rapping etc). Part of being a great man-manager is keeping players motivated and focused at all times. Benitez has not done that 8at all* with Babel.
ReplyDeleteNot again mate. How many times you do you want to regurgitate the same topic under different guises? We know what you think, Rafa has dealt with the Babel poorly and you believe it is bad man managament. Other will come on and say that Babel has wasted his opportunties, and you will argue with them until blue in the face, churning out "facts" about how many times he has been substituted and not given a chance etc etc And so on and so forth. Its been done by you several times before with Crouch, Babel, Keane.
ReplyDeleteI really doubt Gerrard or anyone else would be so stupid to be honest.
ReplyDelete<span>Kaving read a few of your articles I would say, Jaimie Kanwar, that you're a lying stinking Man Utd fan, and shouldn't be mascarading as a fan of the greatest club in the world.</span>
ReplyDeleteJaimie, should babel need much encourage to express this true potential? we all know he has it in his locker... u can only bring a horse to the well. babel has had opportunities & has faltured too often. he should be giving his all when he puts on that red jersey........babel isnt the only one either.
ReplyDeleteYes, and I will keep on doing it everytime a situation like this arises. It's called being consistent. I don't care if it's the same point over and over - Benitez's mismanagement of players is a very serious issue, and if he is not going to be held accountable by the club for failing to utilise the club's assets properly, then it's up to the fans to hold him accountable.
ReplyDeleteI HATE favouritism in any form, and Benitez's barely concealed favouritism for certain players is getting beyond a joke.
The more Benitez shows favouritism towards Kuyt and Lucas - two players who have managed 2 freaking assists in the last 72 hours of football between then - the more I will highlight these issues.
No - I do not have a responsibility to balance things out. If you want balance, go visit the BBC. The points I'm making are valid; you and other fans just can't hack the fact that the points don't match your views or expectations.
ReplyDeleteIf Benitez keeps treating players badly and keeps showing favourtism to underperformaing players, I will keep criticising him for doing so.
Great article. Based on an interview published in The Sun. Tell me which Liverpool player would give an interview to the Sun? Clearly this interview has been lifted from somewhere. Have you even bothered to check if the Sun has printed exactly what he said from whichever source he gave an interview to? Have you bothered to verify the authenticity of the article?
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that Rafa has to go, not because of his treatment of Babel, but because of his stubborness and refusal to adapt to situations quickly enough. Babel has had plenty of chances, fact is that when he is on the pitch, he doesn't want to move unless he has the ball. In the interview published in the Sun, he has inferred he doesn't want to pass the ball to anyone, etc. Would you want to have someone like that in the team?
Personally I would go as far as to pick Eccleston, Amoo or Pacheco ahead of Babel. At least they would try in the game, not just act like some spoilt rich kid.
I was ecstatic when we signed Ryan Babel, especially after his match winning displays for the dutch under 21's. He has shown real promise at times doing things on the pitch that are befitting of the most talented of footballers. His attitude, inconsistency, poor decision and distribution on the other hand makes him a massive luxury on the pitch. Watching him week in week out when he's had the opportunity to perform he just hasn't
ReplyDeletedone enough. Liverpool are a massive team and you cant carry a passenger for a run of 10 games if they are not doing it! Benitez is under fire from some so called fans for his handling of players but you cant fulfil the potential of every player all the time. Babel has had every opportunity but he's just to lazy, especially without the ball. football history is littered with great players with unfulfilled potential. Me i personally think that given the opportunity of a lifetime to play for a team like LFC you bust your gut in every training session and every minute on the pitch and make yourself undropable like Kuyt, Lucas, Masch, Gerrard, Torres et al.
I'm pretty sure that the next player who will leave will be Fernando Torres! He's wasting his talent @LFC
ReplyDeleteas seen on saturday against city, he got one strong tackle, no doubt it hurt, but did he try to run it off? No. I'm not saying there might have been some damage done, but the first thing you try is to run it off. babel had to be talked into trying to play on. That shows a player with no heart. he had been given his first start for a while and all he wanted was to come off.
ReplyDeletehe will flourish in spain or italy but not the prem. he has not got the mental strength to play in the prem or for liverpool.
Lucas and kyute have shown they have mental strength, the amount of stick they get from there own fans week in and week out, but they don't go hiding they get on with there job. Babel claims he wants to fight for his place, then prove it in training, prove it with your attitude. Benitez is not friends with any of his players including lucas, kyute, gerrard and torres, the difference is they try to improve there game. babel believes his own hype.
Guest - the interview was NOT conducted with The Sun. Babel was interviewed by a Dutch magazine recently and the sun just lifted the quotes and created their own article. This is standard practice in print media. Just because it's published in the sun means nothing. The original source of the interview is what counts, and it was not held with the sun.
ReplyDeleteGuess what everyone. it seems that Babel spending too much time on twitter, rapping and not being bothered for the whole of 90 minutes is all Rafa's fault. Someone who is spending more time complaining about how they haven't had enough minutes on the pitch should be coming out on to the pitch with all guns blazing when they get a chance. How on earth can you motivate someone like that. These are just excuses for a spoilt brat. He is 23 not 17. If you need a good example look at Benyaoun. Instead of complaining he has shown his worth with hard work and has now become one of the regulars in Rafas side. Also look at some of the devisive things Babel has said about the squad today. Ship him out quick.
ReplyDeleteOh god, now you're slagging him off because he got injured and needed to come off?! Running off an injury is not always the best solution because the act of running can make the injury worse! This is obvious. if you're injured, you're injured. The double standards of some fans really is amazing - there have been times where Gerrard has been injured and signalled that he needed to come off straight away. Does that mean he has no heart too?!
ReplyDeleteWhat? you mean like Theo walcott? He prob had more potential than babel and he's not developing at Arsenal. C'mon sometimes players just don't respond, especially if the whole world is expecting them to be a world beater! Some just cant take the pressure.
ReplyDeleteWhy on earth do people keep talking about Kuyt fight! what about poor first touch? what about cant cross? what about no pace? what about a FAILED striker? FFS Kuyt wont even get in any of the top 8 cos he has no premiership class.
ReplyDeleteTo Guest whose comment begins:
ReplyDelete"
This is Liverpool’s Ryan Babel, talking on the eve of the Champions League game with Debrecen tonight. “I have shown I can do it plenty of times. I know I could be further in my career but if nobody helps you, if they don’t make it easier for you then it is difficult.”
Read more: <span>http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/11/ryan-babel-yet-another-victim-of.html#ixzz0XndtptZG</span>Hats off. Fantastic and articulate contribution.Jaimie, to be honest I don't think the Rafa "man-management" thing is the issue here and I feel that it has become this year's "rotation" from a hot topic point of view. My boss at work is not my best friend but I'm paid to do my job and he's paid to do his.
Babel is not a 12 year old orphan. Like all footballers, he is surrounded by people who tell him he's a genius and the best player and rapper ever. Just because he doesn't get a hug from his manager is no reason for him to visibly sulk on the field. When he does get his chances, he more often than not looks clueless. He is most effective when the game opens up - ie as a sub. He has been very poor against massed ranks and his decision making on the ball is rank. He clearly has talent but he doesn't seem to control it.Even when Pennant played for the second string or against weaker sides, he looked like Maradona. Babel doesn't bother his hole when it doesn't suit him. He was absolute rubbish at Leeds and Arsenal.Rafa has flaws - and this year is going particularly bad for him and the team, but Ryan Babel has been the architect of his own demise. I think your dislike of Rafa - which you're entitled to - is colouring your judgement of this issue. Your article titles are becoming less considered and more tabloid. The facts as you present them don't speak for themselves. When you buy a young talented player, there is a risk involved: the player's as-of-yet undeveloped mentality, his entourage, his agent, his response to pressure. Not all of these qualities are knowable. Also, people make way too much noise about the price tags of players at Liverpool. For a top club to shell out anything under £15M on a player is hardly newsworthy - let alone call them expensive, such are the economics of the game these days. For me, there have been a lot of players that Rafa bought that didn't make the grade - but only Robbie Keane was an expensive flop. Babel's price was okay given his potential.
this is a ridculous argument.
ReplyDeletebabel isn't up for it. He's a moaner, a whinger and he's lazy. His team mates can spot that and they dont like him. remember him saying he's afraid of the ice baths after training!?! - after six months of being here. Get a grip lad. This is Liverpool Football Club, you have to fight for what you get. Grab the best chance of your life with two hands. Read his article - he's not even prepared to do that, its not in his 'unselfish nature'. I know people who are at melwood every day. Liverpool people, Liverpool 'fans'. They know and we know.
A sham, clutching at straws article, and you know it.
Good money jamie?
Yes but he does like to spend nights out in bars assaulting DJ's.
ReplyDeleteRemember Gerrard in Lyon home game he rightly came off and so did Babel because running it off could have made it worse.
ReplyDelete“In 2½ years with Liverpool I have never started three matches in a row.”
ReplyDeleteLiar.
He started 6 games in a row in 2008.
10/02/08 Chelsea
16/02/08 Barnsley
19/02/08 Inter
23/02/08 Boro
02/03/08 Bolton
05/03/08 West Ham
then he was on the bench for one game before starting the next 5 games in a row after that
11/03/08 Inter
15/03/08 Reading
23/03/08 Man Utd
30/03/08 Everton
02/04/08 Arsenal
Back to the norm Jaimie, going to disagree!
ReplyDeleteSorry but the Lyon game summarises Ryan Babel. Comes on, scores a magical goal. Then gets a free kick from outside the box and it goes out for a throw in.
Undoubtedly talented but equally undoubtedly inconsistent!
The players who allegedly complain about Rafa are in the minority at Anfield. While at the same team he continues to improve the majority of our players. Mascherano, Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Agger etc. have all improved under his tutelage.
How can you say that your not here for a balanced view. So in other words you are biased. SHOCK, HORROR. Thats what alot of us have been complaining about. This site is so biased its getting beyond a joke.
ReplyDeleteI've been wondering where this post had got to - this morning when I was reading through the articles on newsnow there was plenty about Babel and I was convinced there would be an article on Liverpool Kop - I mean this is an oppurtunity too good to miss.
ReplyDeleteI agree Rafa hasnt given Babel a chance, I agree that his initial 1st season stats look good and show potential and I agree that it must be difficult to build momentum when you are not getting selected but you would think... you might even imagine that when he does get his is rare moment on the pitch he would do something other than run cut in on his right and shoot - now thats not to say he doesnt do other things but on the large majority of times thats what he does do - i cannot statistically prove this so I must be talking out of my arse I wish I had the time to sift through the stats so I could prove what I'm saying but I can't be bothered I have a life to lead... Yes Babel is quick and yes he has a ferocious shot but he also has an inability look up when in possession he shoots with his head down he runs with his head down is it any wonder that he looks lost out there - I mean surely even a 5 year old can learn to look up and be more aware of his surroundings it doesnt take more minutes on the pitch to be able to learn this one simple thing that may well revolutionize his game, but the fact that he has failed to show that he is capable of doing this on a consistent basis (I'm not saying he never does) is astonishing. He has potential but can you trust him to use it properly after three seasons i dont think that prolonged run in the team will change much I think it takes an attitude change - a willingness to take on board the fact that he has to show he can do other things rather than what we already know he is good at - he hasnt had every chance to do this but when he is given a rare chance he barely shows it.... also Rafa is decorated manager who watches Babel every working day... you are some dude who writes a blog. I like the blog because I know what I will get not necesarrily a point of view but a desire to provoke a reaction - in that respect this blog does everything it sets out to do.
I totally agree with the article. Rafa hasn't been fair in the way he's treated Babel. I think had he gone to Arsenal instead of us we would be talking about one of the best young wingers/strikers in the world.
ReplyDeleteIt really annoys me when I read the blogs on this site at the amount of supporters who attack the author for criticising Rafa (when most of the time its fully justified). In case these "true supporters" failed to realise Rafa has weaknesses just like the rest of us and isn't infallible.
These supporters need to stop looking at the world through their rose tinted glasses accept the fact RAFA DOES MAKE MISTAKES.
Cue the "real supporter" onslaught!!
babel has the same mentality as berbatov, when things are going well he is up for it, when things get tuff he dose not want to know, that is a flaw in his make up. player with that kind of mentality can not be trusted to give 100% all the time that has nothing to do with the way you get treated that has to do with mental strength.
ReplyDeleteplus i was not slagging him off, I am making legit observations. he didn't even look dissapointed that he had to come off. he is more interested in the music side of his life than the football side, and that is his problem
What would I do if I was treated like that? Try harder. Make the fans love me for the effort I put in, make myself un-droppable. I'm afraid all this stuff about obvious talent is nonsense. I remember one bit of skill against Derby, but most of the time he just puts his head down and runs, a la Cisse. Quick of foot, but, I'm afraid, not of thought
ReplyDeleteAnd he was subbed off in 10 of those games. So what's your point?
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't a superb goal. He cut inside, as he almost always does (don't players watch DVDs of their opponents?) and hit it as hard as he could, like he always does. I do remember him getting to the line against Real and putting in a great cross, so he does have the ability to do that, but mostly v predictable
ReplyDeleteEvery football fan on the planet is biased one way or another. I am a football fan, ergo I am biased. Why is this so hard to take?
ReplyDeleteWhenever Babel complains or his 'fans' complain for him, I always compare his efforts to Bennayoun.
ReplyDeleteThey are the two most similar players in the squad, not in style but definitely in a positional sense and their place in the squad.
Both were signed at the same time, both are peripheral figures, both play in the same areas of the pitch, both are asked to make a difference to Liverpool's plight when called upon.
The difference is one relishes the opportunities that he is given while the other plays with a chip on his shoulder!!!!
Whenever Babel complains in the press or his 'fans' do the complaining for him, I always compare his efforts to Yossi Benayoun.
ReplyDeleteThey are the two most similar players in the squad, not in style but definitely in a positional sense and their place in the squad.
Both were signed at the same time, both are peripheral figures, both play in the same areas of the pitch, both are asked to make a difference to Liverpool's plight when called upon.
The difference is one relishes the opportunities that he is given whilst the other plays with a chip on his shoulder!!!!
the players also have to take some resposibility, like i have said before, there is no way these players like keane, babel, crouch.....a few others did not know the way benitez works before signing for us, he rotates irrespective of form, they would have known they are gauranteed laying time and they would have known whether they like it or not, why sign in the first place? it is the players responsibilty to adapt to a managers way of doing things.
ReplyDeleteZZ, I was one of the people who was shouted down as not being a real supporter for asking that Houllier should be sacked near the end of his tenure at LFC. My response was that a real supporter who cares about the club will ask for a decision for the best of the club no matter how hard it is to take. Please dont give me the "rose tinted " drivel. I on the other hand have seen what Rafa has achieved with limited resources while the likes of Chelsea and MUFC with almost unlimited money end up below us last season. We have improved every single season since Rafa arrived bar this one whre we have alot of injuries. A club lik Chelsea can offset injuries because of their squad. This season has been an eye opener for anyone who wants to know what happens when you get injuries but are unwilling to spend money for a quality squad. Rafa is not perfect but get rid of him now by listening to this website and we will fall back another 5 years. Please tell me which manager is going to take the hot seat and be expected to win the league against the likes of CFC and MUFC with thier millions while your own club has to sell playes in order to buy anything half decent? They will look at how Rafa is promised money but is given none. Sack him now and a fate not unlike Newcastle proabably awaits.
ReplyDeletesorry typo or 2 there i was supposed to they would have known they would NOT be gauranteed playing time
ReplyDeleteZZ
ReplyDeleteI know Rafa makes mistakes and Lord knows he's made a lot this season already - but football is a cruel game and any player who wants to make it has to take his chance when he gets it.
Babel hasn't.
He's sulky, blind and for all his talent can't really pass the ball. He thrives in an open game and is absolute kack against a tight defence. I'd hate to play with him. You know he'd never pass at the right time. His teammates clearly think the same thing.
He would not have been given more of a chance at Arsenal because he can't pass.
Babels timing is terrible but you are right.I want to know how many chances has he got on the right wing or up front always on the left because Kuyt is undropable and Kuyt is playing awful this year but Benitez will always think defensivly.I also think Benitez handling of Lucas is terrible a player with such little talent always getting a game is unacceptable.Did anyone see him watch Stephen Ireland run away from him against City?It is not the first time he is lazy because he knows he will not be dropped.Benitez is afraid to play Aquilani in case his hand is forced
ReplyDeletei don't think rafa is perfect but over the last five years he has got more right than he has got wrong which is shown by are positions we reached. and the fact that one player moaning represents rafa being a bad manager is laughable. so if your a TRUE supporter, you must think pennant, and babel are the best players to walk the earth, because they think like you do.
ReplyDeletehow many other players past and present have slagged off rafa? so if he was that bad dont you think they would have by know
I think sometimes we forget these players are just kids. Young men with a lot of growing up to do still. Rafa is not a nurturing manager. He's not a father type figure that some of these lads at the end of the day may actually need. You'll argue back about wages and lifestyle etc etc but hey sometimes these young men need an arm round the shoulder. It's flexible management of young talent and some may need more than others. I get the impression Rafa has little patience for this but isn't being a good manager being able to get through to all your squad and inspire them. Wonder who'll be next to be out in the cold. Place your bets.
ReplyDeletePoor old Ryan Babel is useless. That's why he's on the bench. He couldn't trap a bag of cement. A less technically gifted Dutchman I've never seen. You can prattle on about statistics all you want, anyone who can spot a player, knows Babel isn't one.
ReplyDeleteGreat analogy, Rafa needs to go<span> </span>
ReplyDeleteheres a number you need cos this is were your heading
ReplyDeletethe samaritans 08457 90 90 90
Babel cannot play left midfield or left wing whatever you want to call it. He does not have the technique to play Rafa's possesion football where as Benayoun and to lesser extent Kuyt and Rieara do. The wide areas is the main failing for us, Rafa has tried to bring in quality but the finances have let him down time and time again, Silva,Alves,Mancini,Malouda,Barry and Simao. One position I would like to see Babel though is right up top. Ok Torres plays there but when he is injured or needs a break, I think Babel could do it, with this latest outburst though I fear it could be the end.
ReplyDeleteRyan Babel is not blameless in his current plight but there is no doubt the manager has failed to get the best from him. As he has done with NUMEROUS other players Benitez shows a total lack of man-management skills. With him it's one way or the highway and nothing in-between. Babel with more sensitive handling could have been an asset to this club but he's just rotting away here now and will be sold asap. 11 goals and 6 assists for a 21 year old in his first season is a very decent return but since then he's been a victim of Benitez's stupid transfer and tactics and has lost all heart and motivation. You have to look at the manager and his signings and tactics.
ReplyDeleteLet's not kid ourselves many other managers would have got more from Babel than Benitez has done. He's failed as he did with the likes of Keane, Pennant, Dossena, Morientes..etc.
Benitez has no idea how to build and manage a squad. He treats players like disposable assets and writes them off. He's a terrible man-manager and Babel is another one of his victims.
The irony is that 2 years ago all these Rafa lovers were the biggest fans of..Ryan Babel. Then he was superb signing who was going to develop into a world class player under Rafa and now it hasn't happened they are the first and most vicious to put the boot into the player. The manager of course avoids all blame. Utterly nauseating. That is not the Liverpool way at all.
The longer Rafa stays the more Keanes, Pennants and Babel we will get. He alienates more players than he inspires and that is a serious problem.
You've never seen Kuyt then? Babel has better technique than him. Kuyt could never have scored that goal v Lyon or the one at Newcastle away or won the penalty v Arsenal in the CL quarters.
ReplyDeleteKuyt's technique makes Babel look like Bergkamp.
Jamie, what a brilliant article. I agree with you 100%. And you've got stats to prove it! Benitez has almost destroyed Ryan babel's career.
ReplyDeleteAn interesting quote:
"<span>Given the fact that in his first season, he was dropped to the bench <span>TEN TIMES</span> after scoring goals, has he been treated fairly in this respect? (the same pattern has repeated itself every season whenever Babel scores/creates goals).</span>
<span><span>
</span></span>
I guess the Rafa fans on here will say that's great management. I can't stand Benitez, the sooner he's gone, the better for LFC. All he wants is money to buy rubbish. Most of the current squad are not good enough to wear the shirt.
Benitez's major success, (champions league) was won with a squad that was 90% built by Gerrard Houlier. He's lost the plot and I think Babel is only saying what many of the other players a too scared to say! Benitez is a soul destroyer and a poor manager. He got so much praise for coming 2nd in the Prem last season. hello, 2nd place does not win titles!
We're going out of the Champions league and we're going to have another season without any silverware. Will we even qualify for europe next season? Not with Benitez!. Never been a fan of his and never will be. BENITEZ OUT NOW! BABEL FOREVER!
sorry but babel is shocking
ReplyDeletebabel is one of the best players at liverpool and has more potential than lucas benanyoun skytel put together benitez has dented his confidence there not much u can do with low confidence
ReplyDeleteCan I just say mate you're a complete and utter tool not only because of your pathetic Benitez bashing but your hysterical drama queenesque reactions to anyone who disagrees with you (season ticket holder post above case in point). I hope for your family's sake you're much better at your day job.
ReplyDeleteIf somebody else had retorted with a comment clearly comparing the efforts of Gerrard and Babel you would have crucified them.
ReplyDeleteHow do you know the players who complain are in the minority? They obviously don't complain in public do they but players generally don't criticise the manager. He hasn't improved the majority of our players at all. You named 5. I can name plenty who haven't got better in the last 5 years.
ReplyDeleteSome players have improved here under Rafa. The majority have either stagnated or got worse. Over the 5 years he's been here that is pretty clear. Not anything to shout about.
The truth is people use Torres and Gerrard as examples but they were both international class players before Benitez got anywhere near them.
Which player has he developed from promise to world class? None.
He alienates more players than he improves. Over the last 5 years which Academy player has progressed to being a first team regular or international? None.
That's not a manager who improves players it's a manager who can't improve the majority of players.
its all very well using the stats to back up how hard done to babel supposedly is, but since when did stats show a performance?
ReplyDeletetake last season. we had a consistent season and our best since the premier league inception so whatever happened to the mantra of keep a winning team. the challenge to the other players is to up their game and break into it. nobody should be guaranteed 3/4 starts to prove their worth. babel simply sulked. stats mean nothing as ive watched countless games where babel has been anonymous. is this benitez's fault?
did babel not start the first game after our most successful premier league season? did he also not display a complete lack of effort? im sorry, potential and talent are nothing if you dont deliver. moaning on twitter alienates not only the fans and the manager, but also the team mates. who wants to play alongside a player that moans when things are going bad instead of rolling his sleeves up and IMPROVING.
you compared him against kuyt in terms of minutes played, but i bet if you surveyed the premier league fullbacks and asked who they would rather track for 90 minutes, an overwhelming majority would plump for kuyt. half the talent but twice the effort
Liverpool vs Debrecen, 25 mins in. Kuyt so far: two missed chances, several miss placed passes. Lucas so far: several miss placed passes, can be found hiding behind mascherano.
ReplyDeleteguess who will start the next Liverpool match? Yep you guessed it, Lucas and Kuyt. Bring back souness, at least he doesnt keep saying 'the fans are clever, they know my idea'
Rubbish article. Babel should go asap. How many chances does mr babel need!! Rafa had high hopes of him but he has hardly delivered. Keane and babel both failed in my view. Babel has talent but without hardwork it's all useless :-$
ReplyDeleteOverall I agree, and I would have much rather seen Babel worked in this season. His conduct in response, however, is not necessarily understandable. I don't agree that you can find causation between Rafa's mishandling of him and a lack of effort/energy on the pitch and a lack of class off it. Rafa could have certainly done better with him, but that doesn't excuse any of Babel's poor behavior. And yes, I would/do find fault with a lack of effort on the pitch and a lack of class off it with any of Liverpool's players--even Steven Gerrard.
ReplyDeleteYes exactly, Rafa is a soul destroyer. He destroyed so many brilliant talents. Lets look at few:
ReplyDeleteTorres: He was the best striker in the world before he came to Anfield. Now hardly scoring a goal.
Gerrard: Was one of the best goalscoring CAM in the world before Benitez came.
Alonso: Was one of the best deep laying midfielders in the world the one courted by mighty Real. But he preffered Liverpool and Benitez - this wrong decision destroyed his career.
Crouch who was an established English international. Only untill this awfull Benitez decided to make him a laughting stock of the perm.
Bennayoun: Onece one of the best midfielders in the league who plyed his trade in best Premier League clubs before he destroyed his football future at Anfield.
Mascherano: the best defensive midfielder in the world. Before he came to us he was one of the brightes PL stars... Look at him now. Who is interested in signing him? Second tier Spanish team...
Do we need more evidence?
kuyt and lucas having a shocker as usual. Benyaoun is gettin ready to come on - let me guess it wont be lucas or kuyt coming off. most likely aurelio offf. By the way why is it ok that a centre back (agger) is better on the ball than a striker/right winger kuyt??
ReplyDeleteSamSamire - I know that you're attepting to sarcastically point out how great Rafa has been at developing players, but I think that you give him too much credit even with those players you've listed.
ReplyDeleteTorres was rated as one of the best young strikers in the world and regularly rumoured to be joining ManU, but the biggest clubs were unsure as to whether he could handle the step up. Rafa did not make him a better player, just gave him the bigger stage to prove himself at the club that he'd grown up supporting.
Gerrard was already widely regarded as the best central midfielder in the Premiership and one of the best in the world before Rafa arrived. Rafa has successfully converted him from a box-to-box into a specialist attacking midfielder, but I'm willing to bet that you would've been arguing he was already the best around before Rafa arrived.
It's common knowledge that Alonso fell out with Rafa.
Rafa did show a lot of faith in Crouch and definitely did bring his career forwards. Until Crouch started scoring goals; at which point it was decided he should no longer be first choice and leave the club with dwindling playing time.
Benayoun has probably proven himself under Rafa now, but even up until mid last season was still regularly giving interviews talking about leaving.
Mascherano was rated as one of the best defensive midfielders in the world before he went to rot on West Ham's bench in some dodgy deal. Now wants to leave Rafa behind, even after being rescued from that experience by him...
For all the people here slagging off Ryan Babel, how in the world do you explain Peter Crouch's and Robbie Keane's revival of form upon leaving Liverpool ( after both had the EXACT same issues with Benitez that Ryan is complaining about) as they now play with high-scoring Tottenham? Are you telling me that Crouch wouldn't have clicked with Torres the way he's clicked with Defoe or that Robbie if given a couple more games and more time playing (at the expense of a useless Kuyt for example) wouldn't have scored us a couple of goals last season that would have helped bridge that 4 point gap? And what of Xabi Alonso, who also left because he likewise could not stand Rafa's man-management methods. You may not like how Babel is raising the issue but bear in mind that fact of the matter is that all those three former Liverpool players are going to South Africa next year for sure, while he's hopes are dependent upon whether another one of his teammates gets injured so that he gets a prolonged run of games. Even I would want to get out of the club with that kind of a situation.
ReplyDeleteI hope he gets his loan move in January; Rafa's ruined enough careers and there's no point in messing this guy's world cup chances.
Guest - NOBODY has watched Ryan Babel play consistently play for 90 minutes. On the rare occassions where he has managed to start a massive two games in a row, Rafa won't dare let him make it past the 60 minute mark both times.
ReplyDeletetjmreds - I agree with your point about Rafa prefering predictable workhorses in his teams (so he can stand there on the sideline micromanaging the entire game, which if you've played you'll know is infuriating for a player), but Babel has barely played in the league this season while his favorites Lucas and Kuyt have pretty much been irreplaceable and how's that playing out? Coincidence??
oh wow. benitez takes off NGOG!! the ONLY striker in todays 16 - Kuyt is not a striker..its hard to even say hes a football player. Might just stretch it to 'aimless jogger.' so no aquilani. why bring him as a sub for the last few matches and then not use him?? God save liverpool because Benitez wont, the owners wont, and our liverpool fans accept mediocraty too easily. the true inheritors of liverpools style and type of football are arsenal. this current liverpool side have more in common with wimbledon.
ReplyDeleteI'm not ashamed to admit that I'm hoping Liverpool go out tonight (I'm a lifelong 'Pool fan) - and from the looks of it right now it seems like they're headed that way.
ReplyDeleteFrom their form tonight - unable to score or hit a barn - they hardly deserve to go through.
At least them being knocked out will further grease the necessary wheels to get rid of Benitez - long-term contract or not. If we go through it's just going to be a false sort of hope (like the victory against Manure) as people expect things to get better, when they clearly won't with this stubborn-headed manager.
I never thought the day would come when I would be cheering for my team to lose or be knocked out of a cup competition, but there it is
aquilani on at 90mins!!?? dossena on before him. This manager does not think or act intelligently. god help us.
ReplyDeleteI have to lmao at some of the ignorant comments made about Babel sometimes. He is a FLAIR player. They try things that do not always come off thereby appearing inconsistent. For example - Ronaldo will attempt a shot from a free kick approximately three times every game. More often than not they will not hit the target, much less challenge the keeper. Very regularly they will balloon into the top row (although admittedly I don't recall seeing him hit one off for a throw).
ReplyDeleteThe difference between him at Man U and Babel at Liverpool, is that Ronaldo would be encouraged to try and try again, whereas Babel would get dropped and ridiculous comments from fans talking about he should have how inconsistent he is because Gerrard scored from there once upon a time.
It would be nice for somebody to point out how many free-kicks Liverpool have actually scored this season, or how many Gerrard has actually managed to get on target.
I can't remember which manager it was that made the 'shit on a stick' quote about Liverpool but unfortunately it does seem true - we have come a long way from the 'Pass and move, Liverpool groove' to a fanbase that seems to prioritise 'work rate' above all else...
lmao @ it wasn't a superb goal - he cut inside and hit it hard as he could like he always does. Wow - sounds a lot like a number of Steven Gerrard classics! So since Gerrard also lashes the ball for a number of his wondergoals, we should also write them off as hit and hope bashes right?
ReplyDeletejust like the rest of the schmucks in his team then eh...
ReplyDeleteI agree that his Babel's off the ball movement in offense tends to leave a lot to be desired sometimes, with him preferring to wait for the ball in to his feet instead of looking for the balls into space where he can make the most of his pace, and it is this that he needs to work on. But the constantly spewed opinion that he is a defensive liability is just a fallacy to me and something that ppl like to repeat without even bothering to watch the lad play and judge for themselves
ReplyDeletehfreakish - how can you tell somebody that they're not trying?? I could easily say the Lyon game where his emotions were laid bare after the goal made it clear how desperate to save his career. Or even the game against Man City where he was so desperate to score that he had no intention of pulling out of that shooting opportunity, because he knows that even if he does score there's a good chance that he's going to get dropped anyway so just went for it. Just running round out of position, and laying balls off to your full back isn't the only way to show fight as far as I'm concerned
ReplyDeleteThe <span>Kanwar Effect strikes agai.........zzzzzzzzzz........zzzzzzzz
ReplyDelete</span>
Walcott didn't have as much potential as Babel - they are of about the same pace, but Babel is bigger and stronger. Also Walcott has suffered a number of injuries to hamper his progress; Babel has just suffered from having a manager that obviously has something against him
ReplyDeleteMatt - Kuyt doesn't go hiding?? He's a forward who rarely completes a forward pass, instead leaving the responsibility for all attacks up his side of the pitch to come from elsewhere, even if his full back is a natural centreback! (i.e. Carragher or Kelly). He doesn't attack the box, attack his man, or take on any responsibility to lead any attacks for the team. To me, that is hiding
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, Lucas is indeed improving a lot throughout the season, by sitting back on the halfway line playing short little passes to get rid of the ball as quickly as possible and hoping that somebody else takes on the responsibility to make something happens. Again, that is hiding on the pitch to me.
rafa is an idiot. you all know it. just admit it. we have been going backwards all season long. out of the FA cup, out of the prem, now out of the champions league. are you lot waiting for us to get knocked out of the europa league now too?
ReplyDeleteJK has a point so just admit it. i have no respect for rafa after what he did to Hyypia. the man spent a decade at anfield. he is a kop legend. in his final game (which meant absolutely nothing to us at that point. we already had 2nd locked up) rafa leaves this man on the bench ALL GAME LONG!!! only brought him on for a measely 4 minutes?!!?!? are you kidding me! screw benitez. i have no respect for that man
"SamSamire - I know that you're attepting to sarcastically point out how great Rafa has been at developing players,"
ReplyDeleteNo, I just dont agree to call hom a soul destroyer. He has his up and downs. I just disagree with unbalanced anti-Rafa rants.
"but I think that you give him too much credit even with those players you've listed"
Lets look.
"Torres was rated as one of the best young strikers in the world and regularly rumoured to be joining ManU, but the biggest clubs were unsure as to whether he could handle the step up. Rafa did not make him a better player, just gave him the bigger stage to prove himself at the club that he'd grown up supporting."
You are wrong. Torres gives Rafa a hell lot of credit for making him a better player. And its not a rocket science. Check his goal stats before he came to us. Yes, he played in a worse side, but he played in the league not very renown for defending as well.
Do me a favor and google this: rafa made me a better player
(This is my first google try regarding this subject)
and see the top. You'll be surprised. See: I dont ask you to type Torres :)
" but I'm willing to bet that you would've been arguing he was already the best around before Rafa arrived."
I wouldn bet. But you cant deny Gerrard learn new very usefull skills under Benitez. Giv him credit - it is due.
"It's common knowledge that Alonso fell out with Rafa."
So what? He developed under Rafa. And let me tell this: both - Rafa and Alonso - dealt with the issue spot on, like pros should do.
"Rafa did show a lot of faith in Crouch and definitely did bring his career forwards. Until Crouch started scoring goals;"
Not true. Untill he brought Torres. Crouch didnt want to be second choice striker. His choice. Anyway Rafa developed him into established English international. A player who was a laughting stock before.
"Benayoun has probably proven himself under Rafa now, but even up until mid last season was still regularly giving interviews talking about leaving."
Has he developed over expectation under Rafa or not? Give credit when it's due.
"Mascherano was rated as one of the best defensive midfielders in the world before he went to rot on West Ham's bench in some dodgy deal. Now wants to leave Rafa behind, even after being rescued from that experience by him..."
His wife is unsettled. And its Barcelona who is after him. I dont blame him, honestly I dont. And he developed under Rafa, developed very much. His ball play is much better now, his positioning and his tackling - mate: he's better in every aspect now.
Give credit when its due.
As we see Rafa helped quite a few players. In my opinion Babel didnt help to help him. He remindes me Pennant who couldnt make it even under Arsene because of his attitude.
I dont writte Babel off - he still can make it. Will he? Chances are slim, but we are not a nursery...
Lucas and Kuyt are Benitez footballing eunichs. Babel is a lazy useless cry baby one dimentional right footed turd!
ReplyDeleteMcdonaltaf - everybody loves to make out that Rafa made all these players so much better, but the simple fact is, he didn't!
ReplyDeleteTorres was widely recognised as one of the best young strikers in the world before he arrived, but doubts persisted as to whether he'd make the step up to a bigger club. He had his best season immediately on his arrival, so Rafa must have really worked quickly on him eh?
Alonso had his best season with us in his first season, before going backwards after a major injury.
Mascherano was widely regarded as one of the best talents in world football before a dodgy deal took him to West Ham, and the manager dumped him on the bench. (He still isn't as good as Hamann was though)
Gerrard was regarded as one of the best midfielders in the world before Rafa came, and I'm sure you wouldn't have heard any player compared favorably to him. Rafa just made him specialise as an attacking midfielder instead of box-to-box, not make him a 'better player'
Agger had his best season in his first season, thereby showing he was already a quality player, and has since displayed his discomfort at his role in the squad after being 'rotated.
Reina has consistently been a top goalkeeper for us.
As for the rest of the team - are Kuyt, Lucas, Aurelio, etc. looking better than they were rumoured to be before they arrived at the club?? I would say more players have gone backwards than forwards under Rafa's tutelage...
How exactly has he treated Babel badly? I take it that your comment about favouring badly performing players refers to Lucas but hasn't he been one of our best players so far this season?
ReplyDeleteI don't accept your conjecture that I can't hack it if your version of the facts don't fit my expectations. I could put exactly the same criticism back to you. I do not blindly follow Benitez, of course he's made some bad decisions but he's made some very, very good ones as well and I believe that he's come in for some very harsh and unfair criticism.
I am also not saying that you shouldn't criticise> I would suggest that it should be carried out in a balanced manner. Myself and many other people commenting obviously don't feel you do that. If you don't you just come over as someone else with an axe to grind.
Yossi was regularly releasing media tidbits that he'd need to move on if he wasn't made a first team regular, up until the run-in last year when he finally established himself in the first team...
ReplyDeleteYes, but both Kuyt and Lucas played more games than Babel last season!
ReplyDeleteI have played - and it's quite easy to ignore a manger on the sidelines. Rafa is there to take all the flack for the performances (and boy he is) so it's kinda in his job description to 'micro-manage' I'm afraid.
Personally I don't think he over-manages as much as people think, for example, is it not true that most of the main training session and warm-ups are led by Sammy.
Mass Debater - what is a right footed player on the right wing supposed to do other than cut in? Run down to the byline and somehow bend the ball with the outside of his right foot??
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, what does Kuyt' our undroppable right wing option do?? Continuously lay the ball off back right where it came from if he does manage to control it, or just give it away
benitez, you piss me off..
ReplyDeletefor shocking, look no further than our very own 'tactical genius' and his inane substitutions
ReplyDeleteYour facts are just useless statistics. Anyone who nows anything about football can see that Babel for all his physique and powerful shooting has aboslutely no footballing brains whatsoever. Do you actually watch the games, or do you just study the statistics? Who can you not see how little he brings to the team? look at a player like Riera; not all he does is brilliant, but he understands football and the team look infinetely better when he's playing compared to your Babel. Ngog is 3 years younger but is vastly more impressive as a striker than Babel have ever been. And fairness has nothing to do with it! Was Babel born with a right to play for Liverpool? Of course he would play if he were good enough! I actually think Rafa is a better judge of a player than you are, and basically so do around 8 or 9 billion other people...Football is about creating a strong group of players that function as a unit on the pitch, this is very difficult, and it requires players have certain complementary skills. Anyone can see that babel clearly does not function in this team. Babel was a mistake, Rafas mistake for bying him, but playing him would be even more of a mistake. Babel has had alomst 5000 minutes on the pitch to earn more playing time (and millions of minutes in training) I'd say thats a fair amount of time. He's NEVER looked like a regular starter. Look at Torres or Mascherano or Alonso or Riera you only needed 45 minutes to see that they could make significant contributions to this team. Babel constantly makes the wrong descitions and in addition his general effort are dire. Babel has PROVEN that he's not good enough for this club. Just look at Gerrards attitude towards him on the pitch; Rafa is clearly not the only one who doesn't rare him. Why should Rafa give more chances to someone who just doesn't do the job?
ReplyDeleteRafa should go asap - how many chances does Mr. Benitez need to figure out the Premiership. We all had high hopes of him, but after FIVE years unfortunately he has not delivered and with all the excuses that ppl are creating I fear we are going to be left in the state that Souness left us in by the time Rafa finally packs his bags for good.
ReplyDeleteRafa has some good ideas, but without common sense it's all useless :'(
....at least Sammi got 4 minutes. 20 million dollar man Aquilani got 30 seconds today.
ReplyDeleteAbsolute joke that Rafa.
A few names for you:
ReplyDeleteReina
Agger
Carragher
Arbeloa
Insua
Gerrard
Benayoun
Torres
Ngo
Alonso
Sissoko
Crouch
Mascherano
Have all improved un Benitez.
...and we're only now seeing the fruit of Benitez's labour with the youth Academy, he inherited a broken part, a youth system takes time to fix.
ReplyDeleteHow many 'youth' stars did Ferguson or Wenger 'produce' in the first years?
Guest - I know that Kuyt played more than Babel last season, but not sure about Lucas and can't be bothered to go check that up right now. But they have both been undroppable THIS season, and look at the team's performances and results. Not great right??
ReplyDeleteIt's easy to ignore a manager when you're confident in your game but not so when you're constantly worried about being dropped and are so desperate to please your manager as Babel clearly is (contrary to popular belief, most of his interviews reiterate the statements that he is trying his hardest to appease Rafa, with his defensive positioning etc.) Rafa is there to manage the team, not take away all independent thought from the players on the pitch
Completely agree, Polo - The treatment of Sami perfectly illustrates benitez's poor man-management skills. Sami was a fantastic servant to the club; a superb footballer but also a great ambasador for the club and a true gentleman. He deserved a hell of a lot better than 4 insulting minutes at the end of the game.
ReplyDeleteJacky - NONE of these footballers spend 24 hours a day playing football, whether they decide to have Pro Evo tournaments, go shopping, go dogging or whatever else; so what if he decides to use the internet or start rapping in his off time. Better than DJing in clubs and beating up any DJ that doesn't hand over his decks to you methinx...
ReplyDeleteStig - so which of these guys have been doing the job exactly over these last 11 games??
ReplyDeleteBabel is not being kept out of an in-form squad, by in-form players taking up any positions that he can play in. Liverpool have been serving up dross for God knows how long, so I can completely understand his frustration at still not being given a fair crack of the whip to stake his claim for a place
Makmanaman - I'm assuming from you're tagname who one of your fave players was, but do you really think that he would've got into Rafa's team with any regularity either??
ReplyDeleteDo you honestly believe that Mcmanaman showed any more heart or work rate than Babel does?? That is NOT supposed to be the key factor in judging a winger!
My point is that Babel's already proven himself to be not good enough for Liverpool. If other players are injured or out of form does that make Babel a better player?
ReplyDeleteOf course we might use him for the odd game, but there's really no point in letting him stake a claim for a place that he never will be good enough to keep. Put him, and us, out his misery and sell him as soon as possible.
He's chances have been limited by his limited talent, not by unfair treatment (and I'm saying this remembering being really excited about his signing and his first few performances, but as they say form is temporary, class is permanent, and Babel, unfortunately has been found wanting in the class departement. That's not gonna change)
I really don't understand how you don't see this... Every other Liverpool fan I know can see this. Or are you really just using Babel as a stick to beat Benitez with?
SamSamire - it's not like Torres would really answer a leading question, "No, I was a better player aged 21 before I came to Liverpool". A young player, progressing to play in a better team is SUPPOSED to become a better player; as far as I'm concerned, Rafa had little to do with it.
ReplyDeleteI gave Rafa credit for putting GErrard in the position to be more productive. Did he make him a better player though? Not so sure about that...
Rafa and Alonso dealt with the issue like pros? Really? By Rafa trying to replace him behind his back, then Alonso holding the grudge and seeking a way out. Yep, well dealt with!
Crouch was resigned to bench duty the season before Torres arrived. The season where he couldn't even get on for the CL final against a Milan team filled with undersized and unathletic players.
Masch has been a shadow of his former self this season, regardless of what excuses want to be made for him. Again, another player that performed to his best in the first season that he arrived at the club.
And I already gave Benayoun his credit as possibly improving slightly.
I'll give credit where it's due; Benitez knows (knew) how to organize a defensive unit, and plays the %'s well, but that's about it...
Stig - I can see how you could say 29 year old Dirk Kuyt has proven with consistent game time that he is not good enough for Liverpool. What you see is what you get, and there is little hope of him improving much in the future.
ReplyDeleteA 22 year old getting sporadic game time off/on the bench does not prove to me that he is not good enough, when he clearly has displayed the athleticism, power and technical on the ball ability to succeed, but lacks on his off the ball movement.
You can teach somebody to adapt to your tactics, but you can't teach the physical or technical attributes to play the game. And all 3 are necessary to be successful at a successful club (or you need to excel in 2 of the 3 areas to offset deficiencies in the other). Babel is far superior physically and technically to Kuyt, and offers the same if not more in his movement.
Babel needs to be sold asap, but I will never agree that he proved himself a failure at Liverpool.
It was Ryan Babel who decided to go and play in the Olympics at the start of his second season at the club. Also, he was named in the starting 11 against Spurs on the opening day and rewarded the managers faith by contributing absolutely nothing in either attack of defence.
ReplyDeleteThere are planty of things to critisize the manager for but at the end of the day you only have to look at Yossi for an example of how a player should react....
Stig how exactly has Babel proved himself to be not good enough for Liverpool, when he's had barely enough games to prove himself let alone improve or get better and especially when compared against another player (Kuyt) who constantly gets playing time, never gets dropped and only has 1 or 2 assists to show for his efforts over the last 18 hours. And one at whose feet every Liverpool attack dies in a wayward shot or stumble over his own feet. Oh yeah, I forgot; he runs a lot so Benitez cannot drop him.
ReplyDeleteAt least Bebel has scoredin that period with the limited time he's got.
So how are you going to stand there with a straight face and tell me that Babel is a failure yet Kuyt is not? Seriously, mate, this is what is killing Liverpool - this blinkered attitude that Benitez can never get it wrong and that any time anyone questions him, he's not good enough for Liverpool.
Bellamy, Crouch, Keane, Alonso :- all players who had a bad relationship with Benitez at the end just like Babel, and all players who are surprisingly now doing great with their respective clubs. Coincidence? I think not. I would even have thrown Sami Hyppia in there as well, for the disgraceful farewell Benitez gave him last season after 10 years of loyal service to the club, but Sami is probably too much of a gentleman to accept that there was ever a problem with Benitez. Oh, yeah, and his club is also doing great in Germany as well.
"A young player, progressing to play in a better team is SUPPOSED to become a better player"
ReplyDeleteBut some of them dont. You blame Benitez when they dont and dont give him credit when they do... It's just not fair.
Torres exploited under Benitez - and this is a fact.
(About Gerrard)
"Did he make him a better player though? Not so sure about that..."
Gerrad is sure. Check fifth result of google search for: rafa made me better player.
(About Alonso)
"Really?"
Yes, really. Aloso underperformed for two seasons. Whatever your job is if you underperform for two years you can expect your boss thinks about improvements. It's not a rocket science. Is there anything wrong? No - thats life. Rafa didnt try to sell Alonso behind his back - everybody knew it, even me and you, so it was hardly a secret. Rafa operates under "sell to buy" policy so he couldnd do what other big clubs do: buy a good player first, make him to compete for place and sell the one who lost competition/is unhappy with the change.
Rafa set the price, the Italian club didnt want to pay, Alonso stayed with us. Did Alonso felt a bit hurt? Of course he did. What was the result? Best Alonso's season ever and huge profit when we sold Alonso.
Rafa dealt with the issue correctly. So did Alonso. Big contrast with Babel who gives interview to the Sun...
"Crouch was resigned to bench duty the season before Torres arrived."
Not true. In 2006/2007 he started 30 games for us (19 prem games + 8 CL starts included). He was not a bench player. He was in rotation system. Did you label Ryan Giggs a bench player last season? He started just 15 PL games...
"The season where he couldn't even get on for the CL final against a Milan team filled with undersized and unathletic players"
We played well without him. I believe that playing like this against Milan playing like they did we would win the final 2 times out of 3. I would take this chances any day of week.
Look how Crouch is used in Spurs... any difference to Rafa? If two good managers in two good clubs use a player the same way maybe they are right? Maybe, just maybe, Crouch is not good enough to be an automatic first choice striker in any good team?
Anyway: Crouch developed under Rafa and thanks to Rafa. Give him credit for deceloping a player.
"Masch has been a shadow of his former self this season,"
Ok. but the question is: has he developed under Rafa or not? Has he?
And really you cant blame Rafa for Masch wanting to go. I would want as well. When my beloved is unhappy I'm unhappy two times as much. I will have no hard feelings towards Masch if he wants to go.
There is nothing Rafa can do to make him happy. Or maybe you have some ideas?
Rafa developed quite a few top players. Its a fact :)
Now Rafa claims that Liverpool are to blame for the Champs league exit.
ReplyDeleteNo sh*t Einstein; when and how did you work that one out? Because I have to tell you, you've really put me at ease there, since I was really confused for a moment there and thought it might actually have been Fiorentina's fault for not simply laying downand getting beaten like the small little club they are, and letting us go through since we are after all Liverpool.
but now, the confusion is cleared, and fog is lifted and the haze is gone, all is right with the world because Benitez has worked it out and figured out that it was our fault that we went out of the competition. Next thing he'll be telling us is that the sky is blue, and that.........get this.............water is actually wet. Seriously.
I. Kid. You. Not.
It's comments like these from Benitez that make me want to shoot somebody.
What I cant understand is that how babel can say something like this after he was given a chance and it really seemed like he would be given a run due to other circumstances and injuries olf other wingers. But then he got injured and had to be taken off. What is the sense then of talking about lack of first team chances when you are currently injured. Im tired of these reports from Babel.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, due to injuries there haven't been many other options other than Lucas. Hopefully with Aquilani fit we'll see him starting more. Personally I think Lucas is a decent footballer, doesn't offer enough going forward granted, but the flack he seems to get is unjustified......a bit like Fletcher at Man Utd, some players are just unfashionable!
ReplyDeleteI agree re: Kuyt, he's going through a poor patch of form and I love to see a forward four of Benayoun, Gerrard, Aquilani and Torres.
YNWA
Hey Jaimie, slowly but surely it seems the tone of the comments here are getting better and more objective (implies less of the Rafa-can-do-no-wrong brigade).
ReplyDeletePerhaps you should get a widget or something with which commenters can vote whether they agree with you or not, so we can get a better picture of the general sentiment of fans... But your site is already overflowing, so cutting down on some stuff wouldn't be a bad idea... Also, it doesn't render fully in a page on the new Firefox 3.6b3 (I have to scroll sideways, which is rather irritating).
Jaimie, it's the same situation with Nani at Man United.
ReplyDeleteAt this stage of his career Nani represents a younger, quicker and more skillful player than any LW they have in their arsenal yet he doesn't play, why?
It's simple, he's not proving himself and the same goes for Babel. I've had this conversation with a United fan, on paper they should be awesome but in reality they both fail to deliver.
They can both dribble and have good close ball control yet they run straight into dead ends most of the time, they can both shoot but more often than not their shots end up hitting the corner flag than the target.
He's not been very professional at all if we're honest, choosing the day of a vtial CL match to make these comments? Citing one of the reasons he's unhappy is that he wasn't allowed to wear blue boots?! Is that what we expect from a Liverpool player? No.
If he doesn't like it at Anfield he can leave, it's that simple. Souness said it last night, he doesn't need to stay here he can go if he likes but if he's going to stay he needs to shut up and knuckle down in training, he clearly isn't working hard enough so he's deserving of his treatment.
Jaimie, it's the same situation with Nani at Man United.
ReplyDeleteAt this stage of his career Nani represents a younger, quicker and more skillful player than any LW they have in their arsenal yet he doesn't play, why?
It's simple, he's not proving himself and the same goes for Babel. I've had this conversation with a United fan, on paper they should be awesome but in reality they both fail to deliver.
They can both dribble and have good close ball control yet they run straight into dead ends most of the time, they can both shoot but more often than not their shots end up hitting the corner flag than the target.
He's not been very professional at all if we're honest, choosing the day of a vtial CL match to make these comments? Citing one of the reasons he's unhappy is that he wasn't allowed to wear blue boots?! Is that what we expect from a Liverpool player? No.
If he doesn't like it at Anfield he can leave, it's that simple. Souness said it last night, he doesn't need to stay here he can go if he likes but if he's going to stay he needs to shut up and knuckle down in training, he clearly isn't working hard enough so he's deserving of his treatment.
"If Benitez keeps treating players badly and keeps showing favourtism to underperformaing players, I will keep criticising him for doing so."
ReplyDeleteBenayouns signing for £5.5m was seen as a bad purchase at the time, he is now one of our core players and has been in the best form of his career for the last 9 months, he was berated by some fans for his poor performances (the same as Babel), he was dropped by Rafa (the same as Babel), so what's the difference between them?
ATTITUDE, ATTITUDE, ATTITUDE.
Benayoun got his head down, worked his ass off, kept his mouth shut and proved himself.
Babel has done the opposite, he thinks that scoring a goal every few weeks is enough to warrant a place in the starting eleven, he's of the opinion he simply deserves to be played because he's been lauded as a prodigy in Holland for many years, he feels he deserves to be played on his "potential" or his child star reputation - HOW DISRESPECTFUL IS THAT TO YOUR TEAM MATES?
There is a right way and a wrong way to respond to criticism or being dropped - the Benayoun Way and the Babel Way.
Show me a quote from Babel where he's said "it's up to me to prove my worth" or "I need to do more to prove myself" - you'll not find it anywhere, probably not since he first joined and was yet to kick a ball.
"If Benitez keeps treating players badly and keeps showing favourtism to underperformaing players, I will keep criticising him for doing so."
ReplyDeleteBenayouns signing for £5.5m was seen as a bad purchase at the time, he is now one of our core players and has been in the best form of his career for the last 9 months, he was berated by some fans for his poor performances (the same as Babel), he was dropped by Rafa (the same as Babel), so what's the difference between them?
ATTITUDE, ATTITUDE, ATTITUDE.
Benayoun got his head down, worked his ass off, kept his mouth shut and proved himself.
Babel has done the opposite, he thinks that scoring a goal every few weeks is enough to warrant a place in the starting eleven, he's of the opinion he simply deserves to be played because he's been lauded as a prodigy in Holland for many years, he feels he deserves to be played on his "potential" or his child star reputation - HOW DISRESPECTFUL IS THAT TO YOUR TEAM MATES?
There is a right way and a wrong way to respond to criticism or being dropped - the Benayoun Way and the Babel Way.
Show me a quote from Babel where he's said "it's up to me to prove my worth" or "I need to do more to prove myself" - you'll not find it anywhere, probably not since he first joined and was yet to kick a ball.
"If Benitez keeps treating players badly and keeps showing favourtism to underperformaing players, I will keep criticising him for doing so."
ReplyDeleteBenayouns signing for £5.5m was seen as a bad purchase at the time, he is now one of our core players and has been in the best form of his career for the last 9 months, he was berated by some fans for his poor performances (the same as Babel), he was dropped by Rafa (the same as Babel), so what's the difference between them?
ATTITUDE, ATTITUDE, ATTITUDE.
Benayoun got his head down, worked his ass off, kept his mouth shut and proved himself.
Babel has done the opposite, he thinks that scoring a goal every few weeks is enough to warrant a place in the starting eleven, he's of the opinion he simply deserves to be played because he's been lauded as a prodigy in Holland for many years, he feels he deserves to be played on his "potential" or his child star reputation - HOW DISRESPECTFUL IS THAT TO YOUR TEAM MATES?
There is a right way and a wrong way to respond to criticism or being dropped - the Benayoun Way and the Babel Way.
Show me a quote from Babel where he's said "it's up to me to prove my worth" or "I need to do more to prove myself" - you'll not find it anywhere, probably not since he first joined and was yet to kick a ball.
Nani is playing in a team that has won the title three years in a row, is still in contention for all the major trophies this year and still has played a lot more football than Babel in an attempt to prove himself.
ReplyDeleteBabel in comparison is being kept out of a team floundering in midtable and desperate for a spark by underperforming counterparts. Giggs, Valencia and Park all do a better job on the wings than Kuyt or even Benayoun.
And no he can't 'just leave'. If you haven't noticed, there is such a thing as a transfer window. And each transfer window Benitez chooses to hold onto him, convincing the guy that things will get better if he just remains patient. Obviously the patience has finally run out.
p.s. I wouldn't take in any words of 'knowledge' from Sounness. He is the one that first ruined the club so totally in the first place!
"Giggs, Valencia and Park all do a better job on the wings than Kuyt or even Benayoun"
ReplyDeleteSorry Jay but that's utter rubbish.
Kuyt was the stand out performer for a RW last season in the EPL (statistically) although he's going through a poor spell right now. I'd take Benayoun in his current form over ANY Winger United have to offer, I can't understand why you'd think Giggs, Valencia or PARK (wow) are better than Yossi!
You're such a negative person Jaimie, your agenda against Benitez is well documented.
ReplyDeleteWhere's your articles about the players who have BENEFITED from Benitez' approach?
Such as Gerrard (moved from defensive midfield to forward), Carragher (moved from LB and RB to CB).
Agger (injured and struggling form but Rafa kept faith in him).
Benayoun (slated for signing him and played poorly to start with but now one of, if not our most consistent performer).
Torres (his strikerate at Atletico wasn't brilliant but Benitez knew he had what it took and paid the required price when United wouldn't).
Lucas (arguably the biggest groans sighed at Anfield whenever he walked onto the pitch and now he's playing some excellent football).
Johnson (Benitez was again called into question when he signed for us and he's playing very well indeed).
The list goes on...
Biased, one dimensional blogging at it's best.
compare babel/benayoun - both saying the same things last year - both admit they had a reassuring talk with benitez, and now who has worked for the team? yossi...babel should go, blue boots? the spanish dont like me? (oh boo), his rapping, constant moaning and total inability to string 2 performances together! accoring to ryan its everyones fault but his...send him back to the jewel that is the dutch domestic league, big fish in a small pond - why has this guy never performed internationally? under age aside he's never taken any chances that have been given.
ReplyDeleteFor a change i agree with jaime!! Babel might not play well wen he gets his chances, but that could be to do with the fact that he is being played out of position!! he is not a left winger!! for ajax he played in a 4-3-3 formation and was on the left side of the 3 strikers!! Everytime he has played on the right(not many) he has done well, created chances!! As a striker or 2nd striker he has played that position for liverpool for a total of 5mins!! not enuf time to judge!! I agree with sayin he needs a decent run of games in his favoured position, where he can use that powerful right foot shot!! If he then fails to shine then criticise all u want!! On current form i would consider playing him on right wing instead of kuyt, who seems to have reverted back to the player he was in his 1st season, Crap!!
ReplyDeletehas anyone ever seen Ryan babel tackle? or even challenge for a 50 50 ball? or even an 80 20 ball, sadly the boy seems positively craven in his fear of the physical side of the game, i don't think he will ever make it in the prem
ReplyDeleteThe answer is that Rafa is not good at man management and that is a fact. Babel has an ego like many other footballers, like Henry, Eto´o, Zlatan etc.. When a manager has a player that is different from others then its his duty to direct the player not control him. It goes the same with families, children, friends etc..
ReplyDeleteWhen for instance a child does a good thing you reward them positively and the same goes with footballers. Rafa is the head of the family therefore he has to act like one, there is a difference between managing and control.
I know for sure it is not as easy for Babel to bounce back now as many of you are saying because when the story repeats itself over and over the player starts thinking "it does not matter what I do I never get rewarded" Babel never gets a positive reward, like play two or three games in a row or even ten. This is same for everyone because every person is always searching for a reward, from family, friends or work.
What whould you do if your boss would never accomplish you or make you feel good at work? First you would live with it but in the long term you would not stay there for a long period of time.
In the end, Alex Ferguson is strict and has boundaries but he allows his players to flourish up to a certain amount. Do you think C. Ronaldo would be as good at Liverpool? Probably not.
Thank you
AF
P.S. team with only hard workers like Kuyt or predictable players like Lucas is not fascinating to watch. And Rafa please don´t try to change your players into a Robots.
The answer is that Rafa is not good at man management and that is a fact. Babel has an ego like many other footballers, like Henry, Eto´o, Zlatan etc.. When a manager has a player that is different from others then its his duty to direct the player not control him. It goes the same with families, children, friends etc..
ReplyDeleteWhen for instance a child does a good thing you reward them positively and the same goes with footballers. Rafa is the head of the family therefore he has to act like one, there is a difference between managing and control.
I know for sure it is not as easy for Babel to bounce back now as many of you are saying because when the story repeats itself over and over the player starts thinking "it does not matter what I do I never get rewarded" Babel never gets a positive reward, like play two or three games in a row or even ten. This is same for everyone because every person is always searching for a reward, from family, friends or work.
What whould you do if your boss would never accomplish you or make you feel good at work? First you would live with it but in the long term you would not stay there for a long period of time.
In the end, Alex Ferguson is strict and has boundaries but he allows his players to flourish up to a certain amount. Do you think C. Ronaldo would be as good at Liverpool? Probably not.
Thank you
AF
P.S. team with only hard workers like Kuyt or predictable players like Lucas is not fascinating to watch. And Rafa please don´t try to change your players into a Robots.
Nice objective article apart from a few things.
ReplyDeletefirstly i agree his stats in his first season are great, but dont forget he was still a kid and in that summer we re-inforced by brining in the likes of Yossi.
The 08/09 season was also one of the best for the reds so it would have been hard for anyone to get into a side where we were pushing for league honors.
Ryan Babel if anything might have been used in the wrong position, i dont believe his a winger.
but dont forget that Yossi also sat on the bench and he bided his time with the little opportunity he had.
Personally i hate to see a talent like Babel go to waste, but his attitude, and desire for the red shirt are seriously lacking.
i say send him to Ajax on loan raise his value there and ship him out
Not a single post has argued against Babel's potential; but blaming Rafa because the lad has not made the most of his gift is beyond comprehension. Babel's attitude stinks - plain and simple. In any profession, any walk of life, such a self-righteous "look at me, I deserve better" wailing would get what it deserves. The comparisons with Benayoun are spot-on. And just one more point: Griping in public (especially to that gutter rag of a paper) on the eve of an important match....well, that's just stupid and inexcusable. Good riddance, I don't care how good he is.
ReplyDeletesimple fact is................
ReplyDeleteBenitez is a straight up RACIST!!!!!
Sissoko Pennant Cisse Pongolle Babel
all these have talent and much better than the likes of voronin riera kuyt lucas..... i serious think benitez is lucas's lover SERIOUSLY.....
Once again comparing the professionalism of the man who has done great things for our club vs Babel, who hasn't. Great is an overused word in many walks of life. Gerrard has achieved greatness at Liverpool Football Club, largely through his own self determination and desire to win, Babel has not.
ReplyDeleteOnce again, the ridiculous notion that you continue to use Gerrard as some form of barometer in this argument. There is no comparison, regardless of the subject matter. Stick to the argument of Babel's ability as opposed to offering the "what if" scenarios surrounding Gerrard.
ReplyDeleteJamie, are you going to confirm the instances in which Babel was substituted rather than dismiss a readers response to Babel's claims that he had not started three matches in a row? I'm not quite sure of your point that he was substituted, is the inference here that Rafa withdrew him because he doesn't like him? And note, that is a question as opposed to you retorting with "I never said that" etc.
ReplyDeleteJK, YOU are the biggest WUM on here. Every time we get a bad result (and there have been many this season) I bet you can't wait to write your anti Benitez drivel. One of these days you're going to get your wish and Rafa will be out. What on earth will you write about then?????
ReplyDeleteA tale of two players. Babel and Benayoun arrived at the same time and for the most part have been competing for the same spaces. Babel made 91 appearances in the first two years, Benayoun made 89. Benayoun has taken his opportunity and now starts most games. Babel has failed and struggles to make the bench. For me, Benayoun over Babel any day.
ReplyDeleteAnother comparison. How about Ngog? In the last two years he has made 20 Premiership appearances (only 4 starts), played 529 mins and scored 5 goals. That's a goal every 105 mins! That's how you take your opportunities!
For whatever reason, Babel is a failure. He has been outshone by other newcomers (Benayoun and Ngog) and cannot dislodge Kuyt. Babel needs to show he is clearly and consistently better than one of these three players. He has failed to do so and, instead of trying harder, is crying about it. Babel needs to grow up.
In 2 and a bit years Babel has made 105 appearances including 47 starts. More than enough opportunity.
ReplyDeleteUnfair? Try asking Mellor, Guthrie or Hobbs et al if they think Babel has had a fair shake of the dice .........
Just remember that scoring goals or making assists doesn't necessarily mean the player had a good game. The majority of the time spent on the pitch is spent without the ball, so more often, a player is analysed for his ability *off* the ball. Babel, although sometimes spectacular on the ball, is almost always out of position and fails to close down his opponent (or the zone) fast enough. This is just one example, but for these types of attributes, there are no data or stats. Furthermore, Benitez always harps on about the player's attitude in training, i.e. if a player fails to train properly then you are more likely to get dropped for a game. How can you make an argument for a player's inclusion in a match day squad if Benitez and his staff are analysing a player's attitude behind closed doors? I'm not saying your argument is flawed, but it doesn't carry much weight either.
ReplyDeleteAre you serious? Torres and Gerrard were international quality players before getting anywhere near Benitez. As was Alonso. Benitez did not make them international players. Torres and Alonso cost 36M. I could sign class players if i had 36M
ReplyDeleteAgger has gone backwards, as did Sissoko.
Insua is currently struggling and going backwards, Carragher? I don't think he improved him at all he just played him at centre half not full back like Houllier did.
Ngog is improving but no more than Babel was in his first season and look what happened there..
Crouch went backwards and couldn't wait to get away from Benitez...like many other players.
Now let's list the players who got worse shall we. Keane,Morientes,Bellamy,Pennant,Dossena,Skrtel,Gonzalez,Hobbs,Palletta,Josemi,Kromkamp,Babel, etc etc etc
A broken part? 3 youth FA cup finals in 4 years, winning 2 of them? Winning a reserve league by miles in 2008? Hardly broken. He can't develop players from 18-19 more like.
ReplyDeleteFerguson in his first 5 years already got Giggs to the first team and had signed up the likes of Beckham, Butt, Scholes..the groundwork was done. Wenger had Cole in the first team and produced players like Pennant/Bentley/Sidwell who have gone on to be worth millions. We even signed one of them. We have nothing equivalent to that. Our youth players are sold for peanuts.
Wenger signed Anelka for 500 grand and sold him for 23M. Which teenager has Benitez done similar with?
Benitez has been here 5 years..you act like it's 5 months!! He has shown no ability whatsoever at developing young players.
To Jay and "guest".
ReplyDeleteDid I ever say Kuyt is good enough for the Liverpool first 11? I you want to use "facts" you could easily say that he brings a lot to the team; last season he was the highest ranked midfielder in the whole Premier League when it comes to goals+assists. But for me he's not good enough. He's first touch, shooting, crosses, dribbling balance and speed is just not up to the very high standards we require at Liverpool. Neither is his instinct for goal. BUT he has game intelligence, and he always caries his shear. That makes his a dependable and useful player. I'd have him in the squad
Babel is stronger, faster, got better skills and a much better shot, but all of that is useless if you've got no consistency, no application and no brains. Football is a TEAM game, not an individual exercise. Babel might score the occational screamer, but overall his presence on the pitch makes the team weaker. Neither does he, judging from his interviews, seem to have the desire nor tehrequired humility to change.
I think alot of people want "the dream of Babel" to play. They are frustrated by the teams performances of late, and by not playing alot, and thus further exposing he's weaknesses, Babel has become the "saviour" "crucified" by the unfair Benitez. He's not. If you watch what he actually does and not what you wish/hope/believe/dream he just might do it's fairly easy to see this.
If he's good enough why wouldn't Rafa use him. Rafa is obsessed by winning, more than anything, why wouldn't he use him if he thought it would help our cause?
Jay, I fully apprechiate your point about teaching someone tactics, but it really is a lot more complicated than that. It's about deicition making within a fraction of a second. This is not the 100 meters or a swimming contest. Think about the best players in the world, why are they the best? of course they are outstanding athletes but there's always someone faster and stronger. There might even be someone with superior technical abilities. Kaka is a great because of his footballing intelligence, Alonso for his reading of the game. Why was the slow and lazy Riquelme one of the best in the world? There are stronger and faster players than Drogba but few better... Torres is the best striker in the world because he has it all, but was enables him to use it is his lightning fast reading of the game combined with his almost freakish ability to make the right decition. You can't really teach this to anyone. That's why the best players are so ridiculously expensive! Babel is probably the poorest player I've seen in these areas in a Liverpool shirt (and i've followed them since the 70s). And he doesn't even seem to have the will to try to learn.
Babel will be a good player at a midlevel team in England or Spain, if they play a simple game that play to his strenghts (and cover his weaknesses) But can you really.. really see him in the chelski, Man U or arsenal starting 11?
Compare him with Nani who was more expensive and about the same age. Nani only has marginally more total playing time at MU, yet noone's complaining about him being treated unfairly.
In my opinion Nani suffers from a similar problems to Babel; he looks really exciting on the ball occationally, but lacks game intelligence. I'm guessing he'll move on within the next 2 seasons.
Do players want to play? of course... Can they all play? .....
ReplyDeleteBellamy, Crouch and Keane have at least one thing in common, they would NOT have been in the Liverpool first team as long as we're playing the current formation.
Bentiez never had a fall out with Crouch, but he wanted to move to play more because he realized that when the competition was Torres and Gerrard he was not gonna play a lot. Buying Crouch was a brave and brilliant move from Rafa; He was the laughing stock of the league, and people said he was too expensive. They were proven wrong.
BTW Crouch is NOT a regular at Spurs. He's started half their league games. And has only 2 goals in 13 6(7) appearances. He's their third choice. I'm not sure that qualifies as doing great...
Bellamy is a complete tool, and was a disgrace to this club. He was bought because he's a decent player and had a clause that made him cheap enough to fit within our budget. I don't care how he looks at City, - not good enough and definetely not classy enough.
Keane just didn't fit into the system. why not give Rafa credit for having the balls to cut his stay so short when it didn't work? Houllier would have kept him for 5 years... It's really no argument that they are doing alright at other clubs. If the shoe doesn't fit you wouldn't keep on wearing it hoping that one day it will (unless you're really stubborn and really stupid) The same thing happened with Veron at united (and chelski) and schevchenko (and you could buy Keane and one of crouch/bellamy for their fees)
Both Keane and bellamy would have competed with Torres and Stevie G. Keane has 6 goals in 12 in the prem, keane has 5 in 10. Torres has 10 in 10!!!! Thats actually better than those two put together!! I know who I would choose to start every game... So then they would have to put Gerrard out of his favored position.... They might have been decent back up options for either, but the simply did not have the will or the mentality to play that part...
Now you might argue that we should change the system, but we finish 2nd last season after easily being the best team in the country for the last 3 months, so I would not do that. But thats another matter for another discussion
To Jay and "guest".
ReplyDeleteDid I ever say Kuyt is good enough for the Liverpool first 11?
If you want to use "facts" you could easily say that he brings a lot to the team; last season he was the highest ranked midfielder in the whole Premier League when it comes to goals+assists. But for me he's not good enough. He's first touch, shooting, crosses, dribbling balance and speed is just not up to the very high standards we require at Liverpool. Neither is his instinct for goal. BUT he has game intelligence, and he always caries his shear. That makes his a dependable and useful player. I'd have him in the squad Babel is stronger, faster, got better skills and a much better shot, but all of that is useless if you've got no consistency, no application and no brains. Football is a TEAM game, not an individual exercise. Babel might score the occational screamer, but overall his presence on the pitch makes the team weaker. Neither does he, judging from his interviews, seem to have the desire nor tehrequired humility to change. I think alot of people want "the dream of Babel" to play. They are frustrated by the teams performances of late, and by not playing alot, and thus further exposing he's weaknesses, Babel has become the "saviour" "crucified" by the unfair Benitez. He's not. If you watch what he actually does and not what you wish/hope/believe/dream he just might do it's fairly easy to see this. If he's good enough why wouldn't Rafa use him. Rafa is obsessed by winning, more than anything, why wouldn't he use him if he thought it would help our cause? Jay, I fully apprechiate your point about teaching someone tactics, but it really is a lot more complicated than that. It's about deicition making within a fraction of a second. This is not the 100 meters or a swimming contest. Think about the best players in the world, why are they the best? of course they are outstanding athletes but there's always someone faster and stronger. There might even be someone with superior technical abilities. Kaka is a great because of his footballing intelligence, Alonso for his reading of the game. Why was the slow and lazy Riquelme one of the best in the world? There are stronger and faster players than Drogba but few better... Torres is the best striker in the world because he has it all, but was enables him to use it is his lightning fast reading of the game combined with his almost freakish ability to make the right decition. You can't really teach this to anyone. That's why the best players are so ridiculously expensive! Babel is probably the poorest player I've seen in these areas in a Liverpool shirt (and i've followed them since the 70s). And he doesn't even seem to have the will to try to learn. Babel will be a good player at a midlevel team in England or Spain, if they play a simple game that play to his strenghts (and cover his weaknesses) But can you really.. really see him in the chelski, Man U or arsenal starting 11? Compare him with Nani who was more expensive and about the same age. Nani only has marginally more total playing time at MU, yet noone's complaining about him being treated unfairly. In my opinion Nani suffers from a similar problems to Babel; he looks really exciting on the ball occationally, but lacks game intelligence. I'm guessing he'll move on within the next 2 seasons.
To Jay and "guest".
ReplyDeleteDid I ever say Kuyt is good enough for the Liverpool first 11?
If you want to use "facts" you could easily say that he brings a lot to the team; last season he was the highest ranked midfielder in the whole Premier League when it comes to goals+assists. But for me he's not good enough. He's first touch, shooting, crosses, dribbling balance and speed is just not up to the very high standards we require at Liverpool. Neither is his instinct for goal. BUT he has game intelligence, and he always caries his shear. That makes his a dependable and useful player. I'd have him in the squad
Babel is stronger, faster, got better skills and a much better shot, but all of that is useless if you've got no consistency, no application and no brains. Football is a TEAM game, not an individual exercise. Babel might score the occational screamer, but overall his presence on the pitch makes the team weaker. Neither does he, judging from his interviews, seem to have the desire nor the required humility to change.
I think alot of people want "the dream of Babel" to play.
They are frustrated by the teams performances of late, and by not playing alot, and thus further exposing he's weaknesses, Babel has become the "saviour" "crucified" by the unfair Benitez. He's not.
If you watch what he actually does and not what you wish/hope/believe/dream he just might do it's fairly easy to see this.
If he's good enough why wouldn't Rafa use him. Rafa is obsessed by winning, more than anything, why wouldn't he use him if he thought it would help our cause?
Jay, I fully apprechiate your point about teaching someone tactics, but it really is a lot more complicated than that.
It's about deicition making within a fraction of a second. This is not the 100 meters or a swimming contest. Think about the best players in the world, why are they the best? of course they are outstanding athletes but there's always someone faster and stronger. There might even be someone with superior technical abilities. Kaka is a great because of his footballing intelligence, Alonso for his reading of the game. Why was the slow and lazy Riquelme one of the best in the world? There are stronger and faster players than Drogba but few better... Torres is the best striker in the world because he has it all, but what enables him to use it is his lightning fast reading of the game combined with his almost freakish ability to make the right decition. You can't really teach this to anyone. That's why the best players are so ridiculously expensive!
Babel is probably the poorest player I've seen in these areas in a Liverpool shirt (and i've followed them since the 70s). And he doesn't even seem to have the will to try to learn.
Babel will be a good player at a midlevel team in England or Spain, if they play a simple game that play to his strenghts (and cover his weaknesses) But can you really.. really see him in the chelski, Man U or arsenal starting 11?
Compare him with Nani who was more expensive and about the same age. Nani only has marginally more total playing time at MU, yet noone's complaining about him being treated unfairly. In my opinion Nani suffers from a similar problems to Babel; he looks really exciting on the ball occationally, but lacks game intelligence. I'm guessing he'll move on within the next 2 seasons.
Ryan Babel has had plenty of opportunities to prove himself at Liverpool, his performances started to slip very early on in his career with us and therefore he was dropped in favour of Benayoun who has performed much better.
ReplyDeleteIn Babel's first season (2007/08) he STARTED 29 Matches and in those matches played a total of 2160 minutes of football, averaging 75 minutes per game.
His return was 3 goals and 5 assists in those 29 starts.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 2160
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 75
GOALS: 3
ASSISTS: 5
MINUTES PER GOAL: 720
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 432
So Benitez didn't give him a chance Jaimie? From Feb 2008 to April 2008 he started 11 CONSECUTIVE matches.
SO WHAT ABOUT THE GAMES HE CAME ON AS A SUBSTITUTE?
In Babel's first season he came on as a substitute on 18 occasions, he amassed 414 minutes of playing time averaging 23 minutes per substitute appearance.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 18
MINUTES ON PITCH: 414
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 23
GOALS: 7
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 60
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 414
Hmm... doesn't take a genius to work out he was FAR more effective coming on as a substitute against tired legs than he was starting matches.
In summary of Babel's first season he averaged 75 minutes of playing time when starting matches but delivered little in comparison to his impact as a substitute, facts you cannot argue with.
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 13
MINUTES ON PITCH: 1093
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 85
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 3
MINUTES PER GOAL: 547
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 364
In the 13 matches that Babel started he completed 9 full matches! Hardly not being given a chance is it?
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 544
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 19
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 272
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 544
Again it would appear that he's more effective as a substitute than when starting matches. He played 9 full matches last season which I feel is a decent chance and he averaged higher minutes on the pitch from his 13 starts. Again, is this not Rafa giving him a chance?
Now, in Babel's first season he was challenging Benayoun for a place in the 1st team, so how did Benayoun compare?
Benayoun started 27 games in 2007/08 and played 2072 minutes from his starts averaging 77 minutes per game. He scored 10 goals and contributed 4 assists, his minutes per goal was 207 and his minutes per assist was 518. The harsh reality is that Benayoun was a far more effective and consistent performer than Babel in their respective first seasons.
Unfortunately for Babel, Benayoun has an even STRONGER second season finishing the 2008/09 in top form and picking up from where he left off this term.
The statistics are there to prove it. Benayoun has been a far more consistent performer than Babel when he's been given his opportunities, when he's been left out of the team or played just a few minutes as a substitute he's been professional and worked hard to EARN his place back where as Babel has continued to bleat to the press about his lack of opportunities, blaming Rafa for his own shortcomings.
THERE ARE TWO WAYS OF DOING THINGS FOLKS, THE BENAYOUN WAY AND THE BABEL WAY,ONE INVOLVES ATTACKING YOUR TEAM MATES AND A LOT MORE SNIPING IN THE PRESS THAN THE OTHER.
Ryan Babel has had plenty of opportunities to prove himself at Liverpool, his performances started to slip very early on in his career with us and therefore he was dropped in favour of Benayoun who has performed much better.
ReplyDeleteIn Babel's first season (2007/08) he STARTED 29 Matches and in those matches played a total of 2160 minutes of football, averaging 75 minutes per game.
His return was 3 goals and 5 assists in those 29 starts.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 2160
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 75
GOALS: 3
ASSISTS: 5
MINUTES PER GOAL: 720
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 432
So Benitez didn't give him a chance Jaimie? From Feb 2008 to April 2008 he started 11 CONSECUTIVE matches.
SO WHAT ABOUT THE GAMES HE CAME ON AS A SUBSTITUTE?
In Babel's first season he came on as a substitute on 18 occasions, he amassed 414 minutes of playing time averaging 23 minutes per substitute appearance.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 18
MINUTES ON PITCH: 414
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 23
GOALS: 7
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 60
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 414
Hmm... doesn't take a genius to work out he was FAR more effective coming on as a substitute against tired legs than he was starting matches.
In summary of Babel's first season he averaged 75 minutes of playing time when starting matches but delivered little in comparison to his impact as a substitute, facts you cannot argue with.
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 13
MINUTES ON PITCH: 1093
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 85
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 3
MINUTES PER GOAL: 547
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 364
In the 13 matches that Babel started he completed 9 full matches! Hardly not being given a chance is it?
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 544
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 19
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 272
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 544
Again it would appear that he's more effective as a substitute than when starting matches. He played 9 full matches last season which I feel is a decent chance and he averaged higher minutes on the pitch from his 13 starts. Again, is this not Rafa giving him a chance?
Now, in Babel's first season he was challenging Benayoun for a place in the 1st team, so how did Benayoun compare?
Benayoun started 27 games in 2007/08 and played 2072 minutes from his starts averaging 77 minutes per game. He scored 10 goals and contributed 4 assists, his minutes per goal was 207 and his minutes per assist was 518. The harsh reality is that Benayoun was a far more effective and consistent performer than Babel in their respective first seasons.
Unfortunately for Babel, Benayoun has an even STRONGER second season finishing the 2008/09 in top form and picking up from where he left off this term.
The statistics are there to prove it. Benayoun has been a far more consistent performer than Babel when he's been given his opportunities, when he's been left out of the team or played just a few minutes as a substitute he's been professional and worked hard to EARN his place back where as Babel has continued to bleat to the press about his lack of opportunities, blaming Rafa for his own shortcomings.
THERE ARE TWO WAYS OF DOING THINGS FOLKS, THE BENAYOUN WAY AND THE BABEL WAY,ONE INVOLVES ATTACKING YOUR TEAM MATES AND A LOT MORE SNIPING IN THE PRESS THAN THE OTHER.
Ryan Babel has had plenty of opportunities to prove himself at Liverpool, his performances started to slip very early on in his career with us and therefore he was dropped in favour of Benayoun who has performed much better.
ReplyDeleteIn Babel's first season (2007/08) he STARTED 29 Matches and in those matches played a total of 2160 minutes of football, averaging 75 minutes per game.
His return was 3 goals and 5 assists in those 29 starts.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 2160
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 75
GOALS: 3
ASSISTS: 5
MINUTES PER GOAL: 720
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 432
So Benitez didn't give him a chance Jaimie? From Feb 2008 to April 2008 he started 11 CONSECUTIVE matches.
SO WHAT ABOUT THE GAMES HE CAME ON AS A SUBSTITUTE?
In Babel's first season he came on as a substitute on 18 occasions, he amassed 414 minutes of playing time averaging 23 minutes per substitute appearance.
SEASON 2007/08 BABEL STATISTICS (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 18
MINUTES ON PITCH: 414
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 23
GOALS: 7
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 60
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 414
Hmm... doesn't take a genius to work out he was FAR more effective coming on as a substitute against tired legs than he was starting matches.
In summary of Babel's first season he averaged 75 minutes of playing time when starting matches but delivered little in comparison to his impact as a substitute, facts you cannot argue with.
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (GAMES STARTED):
GAMES STARTED: 13
MINUTES ON PITCH: 1093
AVERAGE MINUTES FROM START: 85
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 3
MINUTES PER GOAL: 547
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 364
In the 13 matches that Babel started he completed 9 full matches! Hardly not being given a chance is it?
BABEL STATISTICS 2008/09 (SUBSTITUTE):
APPEARANCES AS SUB: 29
MINUTES ON PITCH: 544
AVERAGE MINUTES AS SUB: 19
GOALS: 2
ASSISTS: 1
MINUTES PER GOAL: 272
MINUTES PER ASSIST: 544
Again it would appear that he's more effective as a substitute than when starting matches. He played 9 full matches last season which I feel is a decent chance and he averaged higher minutes on the pitch from his 13 starts. Again, is this not Rafa giving him a chance?
Now, in Babel's first season he was challenging Benayoun for a place in the 1st team, so how did Benayoun compare?
Benayoun started 27 games in 2007/08 and played 2072 minutes from his starts averaging 77 minutes per game. He scored 10 goals and contributed 4 assists, his minutes per goal was 207 and his minutes per assist was 518. The harsh reality is that Benayoun was a far more effective and consistent performer than Babel in their respective first seasons.
Unfortunately for Babel, Benayoun has an even STRONGER second season finishing the 2008/09 in top form and picking up from where he left off this term.
The statistics are there to prove it. Benayoun has been a far more consistent performer than Babel when he's been given his opportunities, when he's been left out of the team or played just a few minutes as a substitute he's been professional and worked hard to EARN his place back where as Babel has continued to bleat to the press about his lack of opportunities, blaming Rafa for his own shortcomings.
THERE ARE TWO WAYS OF DOING THINGS FOLKS, THE BENAYOUN WAY AND THE BABEL WAY,ONE INVOLVES ATTACKING YOUR TEAM MATES AND A LOT MORE SNIPING IN THE PRESS THAN THE OTHER.
Babel is nothing like Pennant other than being young and black. Pennant is an illiterate criminal. Babel just wants to play football. And yes Benitez has been fantastic in bringing on Torres, Gerrard, Crouch and Alonso as players but I believe he doesn't know how to bring on an old fashioned pacy dribbler in the same way as Ferguson or Wenger. He may admire them but he has no idea how to fit them into his formation. He didn't do it at Valencia and although he knows that kind of player is gold dust ib the Premiership he only feels comfortable with industrious workers like Kuyt and Lucas.
ReplyDeleteWhere did you get your figures from, please? The Babel sub-minutes stats are incorrect.
ReplyDeleteBesides, what point is served by breaking it down into starts and subs - you are completely missing the point: Babel has been subbed in the majority of his starts so he's never been able to build consistency.
He has only ever started and finished TWO GAMES IN ROW in three seasons.
You say 'he started 11 consecutive matches between feb and April 2008. This is WRONG. He was dunped on the bench for Newcastl after 6 games (unused sub); furthermore, he was subbed off in 10 of those matches and finised only one of those games.
You're being very selective with the figures - I notice you only include benayoun's starts stats and ignore the minutes as a sub.
Not that it makes any difference - it still doesn't change the following:
<span>- Subbed or on the bench in <span>85% of games</span>
- Subbed in <span>63% of starts</span>
- Average minutes on pitch decreasing every year:
* 07-08: Average 48 mins
* 08-09: Average 36 mins
* 09-10: Average 28 mins
</span>
As per usual Jaimie you miss the point entirely.
ReplyDeletePlayers are taken off for a variety of reasons - tactics, fatigue and injury mostly.
How many players in the entire Liverpool team have been subbed at some point or another?
Ngog is subbed or on the bench in 77% of matches, why not attack Rafa about that?
The reason you don't is because Ngog has not come out publically to attack Benitez, that's why. You've simply jumped on Babel's criticism of Rafa (as you do with anyone who does) and attacked Benitez accordingly.
What you should really be asking Jaimie is why do you side with a player who has attacked his manager and team mates, why is Babel beyond reproach?
Everyone is subbed, but no one is subbed/dumped on the bench as much as Babel. This is a problem that needs to be address, especially given Babel's price tag. Benitez spent that money - he should do his best to ensure the club gets value for money.
ReplyDeleteAnd it is you who misses the point. Why does Dirk Kuyt get endless time and starts despite contributing nothing?
Anyway, your stats are wrong because:
a) The figures are incorrect. Example: 2008-9 - total minutes on pitch - 1542. You have a total of 1637, which is incorrect. There are other inconsistencies like this in your other figures.
b) The Babel-benayoun comparison has no credibility here. I did not make that comparison in my original post - this issue is about how ONE player has been managed by Benitez; it is not a player-player comparison.
c) on top of that, you don't compare them fairly: For Babel, you loo at starts and sub appearances; for Benayoun, you only loo at starts, and then use that (incomplete) picture to criticise Babel. If you're going to compare two players fairly it must be like for like.
d) The Torres comparison is pointless. He is not subbed unfairly; there are valid reasons for subbing him off. With Babel, it is different. Anyway, Torres is a first-teamer when fit; Babel isn't. That stat proves nothing because there is no credible basis for highlighting it. With Babel, there is - and that basis is his repeated benching/subbing by Benitez for no good reason.
There has to be context - you can't just come up with syllogism and apply it across the board. That is not what I was doing and I've never done that. Babel's pitch time is decreasing because of mismanagement; Torres' decreases because of injuries. Two completely separate things.
In any event, no amount of twisting the facts, pointless comparisons and fallacious syllogisms changes the facts:
<span>- Subbed or on the bench in <span>85% of games</span>
- Subbed in <span>63% of starts
- Never allowed to start and finish more than two games in a row
- Almost always dropped after scoring/creating goals</span>
- Average minutes on pitch decreasing every year:
* 07-08: Average 48 mins
* 08-09: Average 36 mins
* 09-10: Average 28 mins</span>
Despite the above, Dirk Kuyt can go almost 19 hours of football without scoring a goal and still keep his place.
Benitez has mismanaged Babel. Anyone fair-minded can see that.
You can argue all you want about my statistics being wrong according to you but anyone here can go to ESPN Soccernet and get the statistics for themselves.
ReplyDelete"Besides, what point is served by breaking it down into starts and subs - you are completely missing the point: Babel has been subbed in the majority of his starts so he's never been able to build consistency."
The point is Jaimie it proves Babel IS far more effective as a substitute than a starting player, you cannot argue to the contrary as his statistics back it up. If he's not been able to find consistency why do his stats suggest he's been better as a substitute than a starting player?! Please explain that without completely contradicting what you've said.
"You're being very selective with the figures - I notice you only include benayoun's starts stats and ignore the minutes as a sub."
FINE.
Benayoun was subbed or unused in 38 games from 53 in 2007/08 which is 71%, in 2008/09 it was 73% of matches (36 matches from 49), this season it has been 74% of matches (14 from 19).
Basically Yossi has been subbed or unused to an INCREASING degree through his Liverpool career yet he's not gone to press and berated his manager or team mates? Why not? Surely that's the logical decision? And somehow through the turmoil he's managed to IMPROVE?
Why is Benayoun not slamming his manager and telling the press he deserves to play ahead of Kuyt? Could it be his ATTITUDE?
You can argue all you want about my statistics being wrong according to you but anyone here can go to ESPN Soccernet and get the statistics for themselves.
ReplyDelete"Besides, what point is served by breaking it down into starts and subs - you are completely missing the point: Babel has been subbed in the majority of his starts so he's never been able to build consistency."
The point is Jaimie it proves Babel IS far more effective as a substitute than a starting player, you cannot argue to the contrary as his statistics back it up. If he's not been able to find consistency why do his stats suggest he's been better as a substitute than a starting player?! Please explain that without completely contradicting what you've said.
"You're being very selective with the figures - I notice you only include benayoun's starts stats and ignore the minutes as a sub."
FINE.
Benayoun was subbed or unused in 38 games from 53 in 2007/08 which is 71%, in 2008/09 it was 73% of matches (36 matches from 49), this season it has been 74% of matches (14 from 19).
Basically Yossi has been subbed or unused to an INCREASING degree through his Liverpool career yet he's not gone to press and berated his manager or team mates? Why not? Surely that's the logical decision? And somehow through the turmoil he's managed to IMPROVE?
Why is Benayoun not slamming his manager and telling the press he deserves to play ahead of Kuyt? Could it be his ATTITUDE?
You can argue all you want about my statistics being wrong according to you but anyone here can go to ESPN Soccernet and get the statistics for themselves.
ReplyDelete"Besides, what point is served by breaking it down into starts and subs - you are completely missing the point: Babel has been subbed in the majority of his starts so he's never been able to build consistency."
The point is Jaimie it proves Babel IS far more effective as a substitute than a starting player, you cannot argue to the contrary as his statistics back it up. If he's not been able to find consistency why do his stats suggest he's been better as a substitute than a starting player?! Please explain that without completely contradicting what you've said.
"You're being very selective with the figures - I notice you only include benayoun's starts stats and ignore the minutes as a sub."
FINE.
Benayoun was subbed or unused in 38 games from 53 in 2007/08 which is 71%, in 2008/09 it was 73% of matches (36 matches from 49), this season it has been 74% of matches (14 from 19).
Basically Yossi has been subbed or unused to an INCREASING degree through his Liverpool career yet he's not gone to press and berated his manager or team mates? Why not? Surely that's the logical decision? And somehow through the turmoil he's managed to IMPROVE?
Why is Benayoun not slamming his manager and telling the press he deserves to play ahead of Kuyt? Could it be his ATTITUDE?
You can argue all you want about my statistics being wrong according to you but anyone here can go to ESPN Soccernet and get the statistics for themselves.
ReplyDelete"Besides, what point is served by breaking it down into starts and subs - you are completely missing the point: Babel has been subbed in the majority of his starts so he's never been able to build consistency."
The point is Jaimie it proves Babel IS far more effective as a substitute than a starting player, you cannot argue to the contrary as his statistics back it up. If he's not been able to find consistency why do his stats suggest he's been better as a substitute than a starting player?! Please explain that without completely contradicting what you've said.
"You're being very selective with the figures - I notice you only include benayoun's starts stats and ignore the minutes as a sub."
FINE.
Benayoun was subbed or unused in 38 games from 53 in 2007/08 which is 71%, in 2008/09 it was 73% of matches (36 matches from 49), this season it has been 74% of matches (14 from 19).
Basically Yossi has been subbed or unused to an INCREASING degree through his Liverpool career yet he's not gone to press and berated his manager or team mates? Why not? Surely that's the logical decision? And somehow through the turmoil he's managed to IMPROVE?
Why is Benayoun not slamming his manager and telling the press he deserves to play ahead of Kuyt? Could it be his ATTITUDE?
You can argue all you want about my statistics being wrong according to you but anyone here can go to ESPN Soccernet and get the statistics for themselves.
ReplyDelete"Besides, what point is served by breaking it down into starts and subs - you are completely missing the point: Babel has been subbed in the majority of his starts so he's never been able to build consistency."
The point is Jaimie it proves Babel IS far more effective as a substitute than a starting player, you cannot argue to the contrary as his statistics back it up. If he's not been able to find consistency why do his stats suggest he's been better as a substitute than a starting player?! Please explain that without completely contradicting what you've said.
"You're being very selective with the figures - I notice you only include benayoun's starts stats and ignore the minutes as a sub."
FINE.
Benayoun was subbed or unused in 38 games from 53 in 2007/08 which is 71%, in 2008/09 it was 73% of matches (36 matches from 49), this season it has been 74% of matches (14 from 19).
Basically Yossi has been subbed or unused to an INCREASING degree through his Liverpool career yet he's not gone to press and berated his manager or team mates? Why not? Surely that's the logical decision? And somehow through the turmoil he's managed to IMPROVE?
Why is Benayoun not slamming his manager and telling the press he deserves to play ahead of Kuyt? Could it be his ATTITUDE?
You can argue all you want about my statistics being wrong according to you but anyone here can go to ESPN Soccernet and get the statistics for themselves.
ReplyDelete"Besides, what point is served by breaking it down into starts and subs - you are completely missing the point: Babel has been subbed in the majority of his starts so he's never been able to build consistency."
The point is Jaimie it proves Babel IS far more effective as a substitute than a starting player, you cannot argue to the contrary as his statistics back it up. If he's not been able to find consistency why do his stats suggest he's been better as a substitute than a starting player?! Please explain that without completely contradicting what you've said.
"You're being very selective with the figures - I notice you only include benayoun's starts stats and ignore the minutes as a sub."
FINE.
Benayoun was subbed or unused in 38 games from 53 in 2007/08 which is 71%, in 2008/09 it was 73% of matches (36 matches from 49), this season it has been 74% of matches (14 from 19).
Basically Yossi has been subbed or unused to an INCREASING degree through his Liverpool career yet he's not gone to press and berated his manager or team mates? Why not? Surely that's the logical decision? And somehow through the turmoil he's managed to IMPROVE?
Why is Benayoun not slamming his manager and telling the press he deserves to play ahead of Kuyt? Could it be his ATTITUDE?
First of all Jaimie you say:
ReplyDelete"And it is you who misses the point. Why does Dirk Kuyt get endless time and starts despite contributing nothing?"
And then just two paragraphs later you say:
"The Babel-benayoun comparison has no credibility here. I did not make that comparison in my original post - this issue is about how ONE player has been managed by Benitez; it is not a player-player comparison."
So which is it Jaimie? We are either allowed to compare Babel with other players or we cannot, you can't have it both ways!
I'd also add you've said Torres' comparison is unwarranted as he's a first team regular (WHY DID YOU DELETE MY TORRES COMMENT?) but so is Kuyt and you'll happily compare him to Babel?!?!?!?!?
MAKE YOUR MIND UP!
BABEL AND BENAYOUN BOTH PLAY IN A SIMILAR IF NOT IDENTICAL POSITION, BENAYOUN HAS BEEN SUBBED OR UNUSED AS A SUB FOR 73% OF HIS LIVERPOOL CAREER YET HE HAS NOT PUBLICALLY ATTACKED HIS MANAGER OR TEAM MATES. WHY IS THIS NOT A FAIR COMPARISON?
As I've already said people can go and check both players statistics at ESPN Soccernet, they don't need either of us to "haggle" over a few minutes either way! Trying to discredit my data is unwarranted as I could easily do the same.
"Anyway, Torres is a first-teamer when fit; Babel isn't. That stat proves nothing because there is no credible basis for highlighting it. With Babel, there is - and that basis is his repeated benching/subbing by Benitez for no good reason."
KUYT IS A FIRST-TEAM REGULAR.
THE CREDIBLE BASIS IS THEY BOTH (Babel & Benayoun) PLAY/HAVE PLAYED AS A RIGHT-SIDED ATTACKER AND EACH OTHERS APPEARANCES HAVE OFTEN CO-INCIDED WITH THE OTHER MISSING OUT.
PLEASE PROVE TO A DEGREE OF ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY THAT YOU KNOW FOR A FACT BABEL IS SUBBED OR BENCHED FOR "NO GOOD REASON".
If you can't (which you will not be able to), your comment is nothing more than a meaningless opinion.
First of all Jaimie you say:
ReplyDelete"And it is you who misses the point. Why does Dirk Kuyt get endless time and starts despite contributing nothing?"
And then just two paragraphs later you say:
"The Babel-benayoun comparison has no credibility here. I did not make that comparison in my original post - this issue is about how ONE player has been managed by Benitez; it is not a player-player comparison."
So which is it Jaimie? We are either allowed to compare Babel with other players or we cannot, you can't have it both ways!
I'd also add you've said Torres' comparison is unwarranted as he's a first team regular (WHY DID YOU DELETE MY TORRES COMMENT?) but so is Kuyt and you'll happily compare him to Babel?!?!?!?!?
MAKE YOUR MIND UP!
BABEL AND BENAYOUN BOTH PLAY IN A SIMILAR IF NOT IDENTICAL POSITION, BENAYOUN HAS BEEN SUBBED OR UNUSED AS A SUB FOR 73% OF HIS LIVERPOOL CAREER YET HE HAS NOT PUBLICALLY ATTACKED HIS MANAGER OR TEAM MATES. WHY IS THIS NOT A FAIR COMPARISON?
As I've already said people can go and check both players statistics at ESPN Soccernet, they don't need either of us to "haggle" over a few minutes either way! Trying to discredit my data is unwarranted as I could easily do the same.
"Anyway, Torres is a first-teamer when fit; Babel isn't. That stat proves nothing because there is no credible basis for highlighting it. With Babel, there is - and that basis is his repeated benching/subbing by Benitez for no good reason."
KUYT IS A FIRST-TEAM REGULAR.
THE CREDIBLE BASIS IS THEY BOTH (Babel & Benayoun) PLAY/HAVE PLAYED AS A RIGHT-SIDED ATTACKER AND EACH OTHERS APPEARANCES HAVE OFTEN CO-INCIDED WITH THE OTHER MISSING OUT.
PLEASE PROVE TO A DEGREE OF ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY THAT YOU KNOW FOR A FACT BABEL IS SUBBED OR BENCHED FOR "NO GOOD REASON".
If you can't (which you will not be able to), your comment is nothing more than a meaningless opinion.
First of all Jaimie you say:
ReplyDelete"And it is you who misses the point. Why does Dirk Kuyt get endless time and starts despite contributing nothing?"
And then just two paragraphs later you say:
"The Babel-benayoun comparison has no credibility here. I did not make that comparison in my original post - this issue is about how ONE player has been managed by Benitez; it is not a player-player comparison."
So which is it Jaimie? We are either allowed to compare Babel with other players or we cannot, you can't have it both ways!
I'd also add you've said Torres' comparison is unwarranted as he's a first team regular (WHY DID YOU DELETE MY TORRES COMMENT?) but so is Kuyt and you'll happily compare him to Babel?!?!?!?!?
MAKE YOUR MIND UP!
BABEL AND BENAYOUN BOTH PLAY IN A SIMILAR IF NOT IDENTICAL POSITION, BENAYOUN HAS BEEN SUBBED OR UNUSED AS A SUB FOR 73% OF HIS LIVERPOOL CAREER YET HE HAS NOT PUBLICALLY ATTACKED HIS MANAGER OR TEAM MATES. WHY IS THIS NOT A FAIR COMPARISON?
As I've already said people can go and check both players statistics at ESPN Soccernet, they don't need either of us to "haggle" over a few minutes either way! Trying to discredit my data is unwarranted as I could easily do the same.
"Anyway, Torres is a first-teamer when fit; Babel isn't. That stat proves nothing because there is no credible basis for highlighting it. With Babel, there is - and that basis is his repeated benching/subbing by Benitez for no good reason."
KUYT IS A FIRST-TEAM REGULAR.
THE CREDIBLE BASIS IS THEY BOTH (Babel & Benayoun) PLAY/HAVE PLAYED AS A RIGHT-SIDED ATTACKER AND EACH OTHERS APPEARANCES HAVE OFTEN CO-INCIDED WITH THE OTHER MISSING OUT.
PLEASE PROVE TO A DEGREE OF ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY THAT YOU KNOW FOR A FACT BABEL IS SUBBED OR BENCHED FOR "NO GOOD REASON".
If you can't (which you will not be able to), your comment is nothing more than a meaningless opinion.
"Almost always dropped after scoring/creating goals"
ReplyDeleteFeb 16th 2008 Barnsley - 1 assist - started the next match.
March 2nd 2008 Bolton - 1 goal - started the next match.
March 15th 2008 Reading - 1 assist - started the next match.
April 8th 2008 Arsenal - 1 goal - started the next match.
September 13th 2008 Man United - 1 goal - started the next match.
December 28th 2008 Newcastle - 1 goal - started the next match.
September 19th 2009 West Ham - 1 assist - started the nex match.
The fact is Babel is more effective as a sub and his statistics prove it.
Career Starts: 42
Minutes on pitch: 3253
Goals from starts: 5
Minutes per goal: 651
Assists from Starts: 8
Minutes per assist: 407
Sub appearances: 47
Minutes on pitch: 958
Goals as substitute: 9
Minutes per goal: 106
Assists as substitute: 2
Minutes per assist: 479
And this might be a valid point (I have to do a little research in leisure time to be sure)
ReplyDeleteLabeling Rafa - who improved so many players - a soul destroyer is not valid for sure.
Didn't do it at Valencia? What about Pablo Aimar? He was at his peak during his time at Valencia under Benitez, was being hailed as world-class, and has since fallen from grace after they parted.
ReplyDeletehow many times has he played for 90 minutes?
ReplyDeleteBenitez is a negative clown and the team will not progress any further under this stubborn man. The facts, substituted 10 times out of 11 after scoring, that says it all, and anyone who cannot see the significance of stats like that has never played football before.
ReplyDeleteWhat ever happened to personal responsibility? Babel has no one to blame but himself.
ReplyDelete