9 Oct 2009

POLL: “YANK LIARS OUT”: Is SOS’s approach compatible with the ‘Liverpool Way’ doing things?

Spirit of Shankly’s ‘Yank Liars Out! approach to ousting the owners is unprofessional, undignified, and lacking in all credibility.

Spirit of Shankly is made up of a miniscule minority of Liverpool fans yet, amazingly, they purport to represent ALL Liverpool fans. As such, are we to believe that all Liverpool fans - and by that, I mean the global fanbase, not just fans from Liverpool - agree with a xenophobic approach to club matters?

From my interaction with SOS members, it seems to me that they only really care about the views of game-going, Liverpool-based fans, as if they are the only fans in the world.

How exactly does their ‘Yank Liars Out’ campaign fit with the Liverpool Way of doing things? Such a campaign – and the use of derogatory words like ‘Yank’ – is completely the opposite of everything Liverpool FC stands for, or SHOULD stand for.

And Yank IS derogatory in this context because of the way SOS uses it in conjunction with the word ‘Liar’. Otherwise why use it all? Why not just say "LYING OWNERS OUT!" or "HICKS and GILLET: GET THESE LIARS OUT!". What has the fact they are American got to do with it?

This blatantly xenophobic approach is just an extension of terrace yob mentality, which is –and has been - a blight on English football. You can imagine the thugs on the terrace chanting ‘fcuking yanks out!’ – well, SOS have just taken that philosophy and made it their mantra.

How credible!

This antagonist, adversarial approach is childish in the extreme and makes all Liverpool fans look bad.

What next? If Prince Faisal buys out George Gillett and proceeds to make mistakes during his reign, will we be seeing a campaign with the mantra ‘ARAB LIARS OUT!’?

Anyone who supports the ‘YANK LIARS OUT’ or any use of the word ‘YANK’ by a group that represents fans will, I presume, support the following too:

CHINK LIARS OUT! (If the owners were Chinese)
DEGO LIARS OUT! (If the owners were Italian)

Anyone who DOES support this type of thing is just part of the problem in my opinion.

Any group that purports to represent Liverpool fans has a DUTY to act in a professional, civilized manner. In order to be taken seriously, such a group must be fair and BE SEEN TO BE FAIR.

And this is not about being PC. There are more offensive words than 'Yank' out there; the point is it is a belittling word in this context; it is personal; counter-productive; destroys SOS’s credibility from the get-go, and places Liverpool fans in a negative light.

In short, it comes across like a group of yobs just slithered off the terraces and formed a fan group. Shouldn't Liverpool fans be demanding a group that is better than that; a group that represents the best things about Liverpool FC?

What other credible organization would use such an unprofessional mantra to achieve a goal? Give me one example. Just one.

At present, SOS is tainted by its terrace-yob mentality. It needs to become a professional organization that does not personally attack its targets.

If Hicks and Gillett are liars then attack them with the FACTS. Prove they are liars and let the the evidence speak for itself, without the cheap personal attacks.

In principle, I am all for SOS’s mission and what they are trying to achieve. I think a fan’s group is a superb and necessary idea, and I applaud them for taking action. I too would prefer it if the club had new owners, but going forward, this is clearly not the way to go about it.

When it comes to ousting the owners in a professional manner, I suggest the following (as a bare minimum):


1. Drop all personal insults/derogatory references to the Owners.

2. Tirelessly investigate H+G's claims/lies about money spent/the stadium etc. If that means hiring specialist researchers/forensic accountants etc to prove they are liars (or prove beyond a reasonable doubt with the available evidence), then do it.

3. Focus on specifics: i.e. the 128m figure quoted in the Academy interview. Prove it's a lie then show everyone it's a lie. SOS's retort to the interview on their site is not based in fact, thus it is not persuasive.

4. Representatives should conduct themselves with dignity at all times. Be better than the owners; don't operate on their level.

5. Never give in to emotion or the temptation to hurl insults.

6. Damn the owners with FACTS. Prove they are liars then EFFECTIVELY disseminate the results are far and wide as possible. This means a more professional media strategy is required. The interview posted on TLW was very amateurish.

7. Secure TV/magazine/newspaper interviews and attack H+G with the unembellished FACTS.

8. Increase the volume of support by showing Liverpool fans SOS is a professional organisation.

It is perfectly possible to be harsh and damning without resorting to playground tactics.

Re point 7: In it's current form, I sincerely doubt that any TV company would grant an interview to a baying, xenophobic mob. This is one example of how SOS is shooting itself in the foot.

This post constitutes my opinion (I apparently have to put this disclaimer at the end of posts now!)




96 comments:

  1. Alan from Ireland1:30 pm, October 09, 2009

    Considering I voted yes and it came up in the no category I think I know where this poll is heading. As a SOS member - it is actually a professional organisation like any union and to say other wise is a joke. We have a consititution and a mandate of what the SOS want to achieve.

    Whats wrong with making the owners accountable for what they have and continue to do with our beloved club.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Alan, that is a blatant lie, but such lies have to be expected.  The Poll is simple: Yes or No.  if you vote yes, it will go in the yes category.  The Pll currently refelcts this.

    And there is nothing wrong with making the owners accountable.  How are you missing the point here?  Deliberalty, I'll guess.  it's about the MANNER of how you make the owners accountable.

    Damn them with facts, not personal insults.

    Think about how SOS is perceived and will be perceived in the future.  Your approach is blatantly wrong.

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  3. the simple fact is, the owners should go, the liverpool way is dictated by the owners, and at the moment any tactic to get them to leave is a good one. they started the lies and turned the club into a laughing stock. so any policy used to get them to leave is reasonable 

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  4. So what you're basically saying is two wrongs make a right?

    Whay about being better than that?  What about not lowering yourself to that level?

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  5. Is this blog 'The Liverpool Way' of doing things, I would think not. If the Shankly family are happy enough to back SOS then that will do for me.

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  6. I'd love to stab you in the face

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  7. SOS member, by any chance ;)

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  8. Anybody who feels so upset and offended about our passion for our club, can always go and support their local team. We don't have that luxury, this is our local team, nobody asked for our opinion on it becoming a 'global club'.

    We were here before the glory hunters latched onto it, and we'll still be here long after they've gone. The people of Liverpool/Merseyside built this club to what it is, that's a fact. All are made welcome at this club, but don't be so offensive as to suggest that local people are some kind of nuisance that can be ignored. How patronising and ignorant!

    And yes, Yanks out NOW!

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  9. To be honest i think 'the yanks' are lucky they can still walk upright, I really fear something will happen to them in the city. Im no SOS member but i think it's been very well run, we can't just sit back and get fucked up the arse, can we?. They made a terrible mistake coming in to Liverpool, now they have to get out in one piece, good luck!!!!!!!!!

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  10. Oh god kanwar is now taking his war to SOS because he made a tit out of himself over the gillett interview.

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  11. Ah, another 'Liverpudlians are best and everyone else can fcuk off' person.
    Well, you're WRONG anyway. Learn some history. The first set of players to don the Liverpool shirt were Scots. Most of the clubs success has been created by NON-Liverpudlians, with Scots having a major impact, as well as lots of other nationalities.

    Liverpudlian players have played their part, but non-Liverpudlian managers have created the bulk of the clubs success.

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  12. I for one agree with you Jaimie!  Im sick of going to games and seeing SOS with signs saying Yanks out now, its pointless if the Yanks want to leave they will leave until then i dont see how this is going to get them out!?? 

    SOS dont represent all Liverpool supporters its only their agenda they care about and thats insulting the Owners.  i would like to point out the owners brought us Torres!!!!  but im not saying they are the best i think that they must leave but throwing out toys out the cot isnt going to work.

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  13. Alan from Ireland2:33 pm, October 09, 2009

    The club was formed by a Irish-Protestant, only for him Liverpool FC would be never have being born.

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  14. Completely agree. 

    They're like a bunch of kids stamping their feet up and down and spitting out their dummies because they can't get their own way.

    And people are proud of that approach?  These are probably the same fans who wanted to segregate the Kop and make it for Liverpool-basd fans only.

    It's a sad indictment of certain LFC fans if you ask me.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Alan from Ireland2:35 pm, October 09, 2009

    Have SOS physically abused any of the owners NO. We have went about our protests in a democratic way. What more can a set of supporters lie down like the United supporters who are in worse debt than us.

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  16. I'm an out-of-towner and I would like to see Liverpool retain it's roots. It's a football club not a brand. SOS is a good idea because it protects what made the club great.

    I have to agree though, SOS should not be directing personnal insults. Fans are more likely to support SOS if they respect it. Never under-estimate the intellegence of Liverpool fans; they know the owners are in it for the money but they also know a mob group has more power when acting responsibly.

    YNWA
    In Rafa we trust

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  17. Inever said that. I said all are welcome, what I object to are people from outside the area trying to tell us how to behave in our own club.

    You need to check your own history. LFC had crowds of 50,000+ when we were in the second division. Without that local, long term support, we'd have gone bust before we ever got into the first div.

    You plainly don't understand real Liverpool supporters. If you did, you wouldn't keep coming out with the negative crap that you do, day in, day out.

    Real fans back the team  and the manager.  That's why these carpet bagging, miney grabbing parasites have to go ASAP.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I prefer to hear "Yanks Out" than your normal anti Rafa complaining.  Most educated people realise that the term "Yank" is only mildly derogatory so do not take offence.  You do not hear of any chinese or italian club utilising the xenaphobic terminology that you have included in your artical in their team name in the way the New York Yankee's have. 

    Get off your high horse, you are no better or worse than the SOS. At least they get behind the club rather than constantly whining about things with the benifit of hindsight. 

    ReplyDelete
  19. I'm a member of SOS, I'm not Liverpool based, suppose I'm a game going fan but not to as many as i would like but I am certainly not a yob that has slithered off the terrace as you so eloquently put it. SOS are a professional outfit, they have a constitution, elected committee and they also do not , as you state, purport  to represent ALL Liverpool fans but only their own members. It's perfectly obvious who it's aimed at and anyone feeling it is offensive to others is pretty much looking for that offense in the first place. You don't like SOS for whatever reason so you'll latch on to anything you think you can beat them with, sling enough mud at them in the hope some of it sticks. But as with this poll and the Gillett interview article I think you'll find you're on a hiding to nothing.

    I found this site through a comment on a forum, after looking around you can rest assured I won't be back.

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  20. i would like to point out the owners brought us Torres!!!!
    <div id="TixyyLink" style="border: medium none; overflow: hidden; color: #000000; background-color: transparent; text-align: left; text-decoration: none;">
    </div>
    <div style="border: medium none; overflow: hidden; color: #000000; background-color: transparent; text-align: left; text-decoration: none;">no, they didn't. they borrowed money to sanction the deal.
    </div>

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  21. Dont get me wrong Jaimie i agree with the SOS and the Americans are not the best owners for LFC but i just agree with your article stating that they are going about it in the wrong way!  Its a bit of catch 22 for if we do nothing the Americans think we dont mind them being there but on the other day if we shout and scream at them and threaten their family like we did to hicks son we look like a horrid bunch of fans which i dont like as we are LFC renowned around the world for our fans i just think its not the right way of doing it!!

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  22. Liverpool-based fans DO NOT OWN THE CLUB.

    Liverpool-based fans ARE NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT SECTION OF FANS.

    Stop living in the past.

    Without the worldwide fanbase - i.e. those OUTSIDE LIVERPOOL, the club would wither and die.

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  23. Im actually done with this thread!!  Im just sick of all this negativity surrounding Liverpool FC these days, I support Liverpool no matter who sits on the Board!!! 

    ReplyDelete
  24. I must admit that I fail to see the point in your exsistence, as a Liverpool fan anyway. You may indeed to be a nice person with family and friends, who think you deserve a place on this earth, So, for that reason I am only using the term 'Liverpool fan'. I find what you write about the club and some of its supporters quite disconcerning. You seem to use every available opportunity to slate and mock the efforts of those who really care. How you can look at the SOS as childish is beyond me? If you had ever been to a meeting you would know that everybody there has one common interest, And that is whats is best for Liverpool Football Club. How you can fail to see that is beyond me? Actually it's not. Its quite apparent that from reading certain replies that you do not attend the games. The excuse of it being hard to get tickets is laughable. I know plenty of lads, myself included, who do not have season tickets or have gone years without one. We have somehow managed to get to many games on a season by season basis. And do we manage this by magic or by selling our soul to the Devil? No! I wanted a console when I was 14 but my ma wouldn't let me have it, so I tried to summon him but he didn't come, so can I conform the fact the he does not exist. We do it with hard work because to us there is nothing better than supporting our team home and away! From Liverpool, London, Manchester and afar we travel to watch the team, and I'm sorry, actually no I'm not, but we do have a more of a right to have an opinion than someone who watches the game on the tele/radio! Views are built up on first hand knowledge, not by listening to the likes Merson and Charlie, or those on talksport! You my friend are a muppet of the highest order and deserve a place in the spotlight but only next to Gonzo and Kermit!

    ReplyDelete
  25. at 15:05 GMT, there 59% who said 'Yes' (not sure how many people voted)

    So JK - who is 'right' and how do you interpret this?

    My other question - how do you 'professionally oust' the owner?

    ReplyDelete
  26. I must admit that I fail to see the point in your exsistence, as a Liverpool fan anyway. You may indeed to be a nice person, with family and friends who think you deserve a place on this earth, So, for that reason I am only using the term 'Liverpool fan'. I find what you write about the club and some of its supporters very disconcerning. You seem to use every available opportunity to slate and mock the efforts of those who really care. How you can look at the SOS as childish is beyond me? If you had ever been to a meeting you would know that everybody there has one common interest, And that is whats is best for Liverpool Football Club. How you can fail to see that is beyond me? Actually it's not. Its quite apparent that from reading certain replies that you do not attend the games. The excuse of it being hard to get tickets is laughable. I know plenty of lads, myself included, who do not have season tickets or have gone years without one. Yet, we have somehow managed to get to many games on a season by season basis. And do we manage this by magic or by selling our soul to the Devil? No! I wanted a games console when I was 14 but my ma wouldn't let me have it, so I tried to summon him but he didn't come, so can I confirm the fact the he does not exist. We do it with hard work because to us there is nothing better than supporting our team home and away! From Liverpool, London, Manchester and from a far we travel to watch the team, and I'm sorry, actually no I'm not, but we do have a more of a right to have an opinion than someone who watches the game on the tele/radio! Views are built up on first hand knowledge, not by listening to the likes Merson and Charlie, or those on talksport! You my friend are a muppet of the highest order and someone who does deserve a place in the spotlight, but only next to Gonzo and Kermit!

    Read more: <span style="color: #940f04;">http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/10/poll-yank-liars-out-is-soss-approach.html#ixzz0TRnpJbOV</span>

    ReplyDelete
  27. I must admit that I fail to see the point in your exsistence, as a Liverpool fan anyway. You may indeed to be a nice person, with family and friends who think you deserve a place on this earth, So, for that reason I am only using the term 'Liverpool fan'. I find what you write about the club and some of its supporters very disconcerning. You seem to use every available opportunity to slate and mock the efforts of those who really care. How you can look at the SOS as childish is beyond me? If you had ever been to a meeting you would know that everybody there has one common interest, And that is what is best for Liverpool Football Club. How you can fail to see that is beyond me? Actually it's not. Its quite apparent, that from reading certain replies that you do not attend the games. The excuse of it being hard to get tickets is laughable. I know plenty of lads, myself included, who do not have season tickets or have gone years without one. Yet, we have somehow managed to get to many games on a season by season basis. And do we manage this by magic or by selling our soul to the Devil? No! I wanted a games console when I was 14 but my ma wouldn't let me have it, so I tried to summon him but he did not come, so can I confirm the fact the he does not exist. See - no trickery here! We do it with hard work, because to us there is nothing better than supporting our team home and away! From Liverpool, London, Manchester and from a far we travel to watch them, and I'm sorry, actually no I'm not, but we do have a more of a right to have an opinion than someone who watches the game on the tele/radio! Views are built up on first hand knowledge, not by listening to the likes Merson and Charlie, or those on talksport! You my friend are a muppet of the highest order and someone who does deserve a place in the spotlight, but only next to Gonzo and Kermit!  

    ReplyDelete
  28. I must admit that I fail to see the point in your exsistence, as a Liverpool fan anyway. You may indeed to be a nice person, with family and friends who think you deserve a place on this earth, So, for that reason I am only using the term 'Liverpool fan'. I find what you write about the club and some of its supporters very disconcerning. You seem to use every available opportunity to slate and mock the efforts of those who really care. How you can look at the SOS as childish is beyond me? If you had ever been to a meeting you would know that everybody there has one common interest, And that is what is best for Liverpool Football Club. How you can fail to see that is beyond me? Actually it's not. Its quite apparent, that from reading certain replies that you do not attend the games. The excuse of it being hard to get tickets is laughable. I know plenty of lads, myself included, who do not have season tickets or have gone years without one. Yet, we have somehow manage to get to many games on a season by season basis. And do we manage this by magic or by selling our soul to the Devil? No! I wanted a games console when I was 14 but my ma wouldn't let me have it, so I tried to summon him but he did not come, so can I confirm the fact the he does not exist. See - no trickery here! We do it with hard work, because to us there is nothing better than supporting our team home and away! From Liverpool, London, Manchester and from a far we travel to watch them, and I'm sorry, actually no I'm not, but we do have a more of a right to have an opinion than someone who watches the game on the tele/radio! Views are built up on first hand knowledge, not by listening to the likes Merson and Charlie, or those on talksport! You my friend are a muppet of the highest order and someone who does deserve a place in the spotlight, but only next to Gonzo and Kermit!  

    ReplyDelete
  29. I must admit that I fail to see the point in your exsistence, as a Liverpool fan anyway. You may indeed to be a nice person, with family and friends who think you deserve a place on this earth, So, for that reason I am only using the term 'Liverpool fan'. I find what you write about the club and some of its supporters very disconcerning. You seem to use every available opportunity to slate and mock the efforts of those who really care. How you can look at the SOS as childish is beyond me? If you had ever been to a meeting you would know that everybody there has one common interest, And that is what is best for Liverpool Football Club. How you can fail to see that is beyond me? Actually it's not. Its quite apparent, that from reading certain replies that you do not attend the games. The excuse of it being hard to get tickets is laughable. I know plenty of lads, myself included, who do not have season tickets or have gone years without one. Yet, we have somehow manage to get to many games on a season by season basis. And do we manage this by magic or by selling our soul to the Devil? No! I wanted a games console when I was 14 but my ma wouldn't let me have it, so I tried to summon him but he did not come, so I can confirm the fact the he does not exist. See - no trickery here! We do it with hard work, because to us there is nothing better than supporting our team home and away! From Liverpool, London, Manchester and from a far we travel to watch them, and I'm sorry, actually no I'm not, but we do have a more of a right to have an opinion than someone who watches the game on the tele/radio! Views are built up on first hand knowledge gained through experience, not by listening to the likes Merson and Charlie, or those on talksport! You my friend are a muppet of the highest order and someone who does deserve a place in the spotlight, but only next to Gonzo and Kermit!

    Oh and one final thing - YANKS OUT!

    ReplyDelete
  30. The poll has only been going for an hour!  Give it time.  At the moment, fan sites like TLW are exhorting their members to come here and vote YES.  once all the dies down, we'll get a more accurate picture.

    And when it comes to ousting the owners in a professional manner:

    1. Drop all personal insults.
    2. tirelessly invesitgate H+G's claims about money.  if that means hiring specialit researchers/forensic accountants etc to prove (or prove beyond a reasonable dount) they are liars, then do it.

    3. Focus on specifics:  i.e. the 128m figure quoted in the interview.  Prove it's a lie then show everyone it's a lie.  SOS's retort to the interview on their site is not based in fact, thus it is not persuasive.

    4. Representatives should conduct themselves with dignity at all times.  Be better than the owners; don't operate on their level.

    5. Never give in to emotion or the temptation to hurl insults.

    6. Damn the owners with FACTS.  Prove they are liars then EFFECTIVELY disseminate the results are far and wide as possible.  This means a more professional media strategy is required.  The interview posted on TLW was very amateurish.

    It is perfectly possible to be harsh and damning without resorting to playground tactics.

    ReplyDelete
  31. slithered off the terraces? at least we've been to games, supported our team

    ReplyDelete
  32. And I thought the Jocks started the club, made the club what it was and the best players came from Scotland.

    Maybe I misunderstood what you were supposed to be saying.

    ReplyDelete
  33. fact: yank liars out!!!! kanwaaaaaaa stop crying over unimportant rubbish and help save your club.your distracting from the real issue at hand mate.if your a true red youd get on with it....and stop whinging about hurting the YANKS feelings.surely u get that right? lfc is at stake here.if u dont then what ive read about u on fan sites is right.your move.

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  34. fact: yank liars out!!!! kanwaaaaaaa stop crying over unimportant rubbish and help save your club.your distracting from the real issue at hand mate.if your a true red youd get on with it....and stop whinging about hurting the YANKS feelings.surely u get that right? lfc is at stake here.if u dont then what ive read about u on fan sites is right.your move.
    <div id="TixyyLink" style="border: medium none; overflow: hidden; color: #000000; background-color: transparent; text-align: left; text-decoration: none;">
    Read more: http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/10/poll-yank-liars-out-is-soss-approach.html#ixzz0TSBvEdSQ
    </div>

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  35. I don't believe what a lot of what the SOS do is right, but the only way for the owners to realise the strength of feeling is signs like that. A sign saying "We think you are very nice chaps, but please go away", just won't work (and would cost a fortune). I am not a member of the SOS and never will be, but I voted yes. PS I don't go on TLW.

    ReplyDelete
  36. I AM helping - I'm trying point out to SOS and the fasn that support them that their childish, unprofessional approach is not sustainable in the long term and will do more bad than good.  I'm trying to illustrate that going about things in a professional, non-insulting manner is the best way forward.

    There are fans like me who will not join SOS whilst it is its current form.  Do you really think I am the only fan who thinks this way?! 

    SOS may only be interested in Liverpool-based fans right now, but if they want to make a real difference then they will need the support of the world-wide fanbase, and at the moment, that isn't going to happen.

    So why don't you stop with tunnel vision and accept that this is a debate that needs to happen.

    ReplyDelete
  37. fact - u are a counter productive idiot and seem to be revelling in your own madness.go buy an everton kit and a season ticket to woodison, u may as well.

    SOS should be praised for doing something.u make me sick kannwaaaa, what have u done besides whinge on a blog u pathetic excuse for a red. walk alone kanwaa.

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  38. Great Atricle Jamie. Full of very valid points. As a Scot and avid follower i continually hear references made around anfiled about "Our club" and "scousers only" blah blah. It's this narrow mindedness from some fans that serves to hold back the club.

    As you mentioned earlier the club success and roots generally stem from  non-liverpudlians. I have often been made to feel like a foreigner at matches even though the 2 people the club celebrate most are Shankly and Dalgleish. Hippocracy anyone?!! Hilarious. It's this attitude that has seen our club continue to fall behind the likes of Manchester United on a global scale. Football is now a business like any other so the sooner they realise that the better for all.

    As for the SOS signs. They are pathetic, uneducated and chidish. Exposing the Americans as liars through the right channels is the only way to make any headway. Turning up every week with a silly little banner will get them nowhere.

    YNWA

    ReplyDelete
  39. How does a sign saying 'LYING OWNERS OUT!' or HICKS AND GILLETT: LIARS OUT' any less effective than 'YANK LIARS OUT'!?

    Your argument is unsupportable.  The first two taglines I put have one key advantage: they do not resort to lowest common denominator tactics of hurling insults.  This is always the best way forward.

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  40. I think we all know the owners are/were only in this for the money.  Clearly their terrible financial management of the club up to this point and attempts to profiteer from, rather than build upon, the club's income is putting them off.  Gillett is looking to sell his stake to the Saudis.

    I think where you are coming from is noble in spirit Kanwar.  But it's also idealistic.  The club's owners have not only cheated us out of further investment, made public their disagreements at the expense of our club, undermined and mistreated our manager (who despite what you think is a great asset to our club)- they have also insulted us.  How?  With their lies, by treating us as just another source for fattening their pockets.

    The club deserves better but these guys will hang on until they get their pockets filled.  I think realistically there has to be a way to make things unpleasant for them without publicly embarrassing the club.  However I have full sympathy for those of us who are so insulted by these owners that they feel the desire to reply.  SOS may not represent all of us but how about some recognition of a genuine attempt to stick up for the club and its suporters in the face of this unwanted takeover?

    What is really pointless is this argument about who are the real fans and who the club means more to.  Are we not divided enough?  We support the same club and in the main want the same thing (new owners, a little well spent investment, an end to this embarrassment). :) ynwa

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  41. LOL. What complete bollocks. How can it be living in th past? Proper supporters support their local team.

    Without local support, the club would never have been as succesful, and it's only through success that we have the 'global fanbase'.

    I don't see much of a global fanbase at Prenton Park. Yet, bet your arse, if they won any major competitions, Tranmere would be a global phenonemon too.

    Ask the Toffee's where their global fanbase is now, you know, the one they had in the eighties. It fucked off back to North Wales and Oslo, when they ceased to be succesful. That's a fact.

    Like I said before, SOS represent real supporters. Not Johnny come lately glory hunters, who just want to ride on the coat tails of success. Ask yourself this question: why are midweek European games more atmospheric than weekend matches nowadays? Answer, because the real local fans, can actually get into these games, and create that atmospehere, that's why.

    Anfield has been turned into a sodding library, for the last few years, and it's all because local supporters have been shoved out, because of this soulless global entity, and replaced with prawn butty munching tourists.

    That's what'll make the club wither and die. Not passionate, local support.

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  42. Just an additional comment re:"yanks out". 
    There is a certain understanding in Britain, and in Europe/elsewhere, of what a club means to its supporters.  In america sports clubs are called franchises.  Their purpose is to make money, their location isnt important.  Do we consider LFC a franchise? Do we think it should be run by people who see it as such?  Another investment in their existing portfolio of 'franchises'?  Perhaps the name-calling is relevant.  We certainly have a very different understanding of/approach to our sports clubs

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  43. <p style="margin: 6pt;"><span><span style="">Are you saying that the SOS is anti OOT. What a narrow minded and uneducated thing to say, if I've read it correctly. They are far from that and it's comments like this that make what they/we are trying to achieve harder! I'm an OOT and a union member. I regularly attend the meetings and have never come across such behaviour!</span></span><span style=""></span>
    <p style="margin: 6pt;"><span><span style="">Oh and by the way you should really know how to spell 'Dalglish'!</span></span><span style=""></span>

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  44. Spot on, Weller.  Without the likes Of Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley (also a non-Liverpudlian) and Kenny Dalglish, what enduring success does Liverpool FC have left? 

    Liverpool FC was built by non-Liverpudlians NOT Scousers.  Before Shanks came along, Liverpool were nothing as a football club (in terms of success, that is).

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  45. The club has to retain its scouse heartbeat. Its a representation of the city for gods sake! Kids from Liverpool don't get the opportunity to see the team where they live first hand, because we don't offer individual kids tickets, and they are ultimately priced out of the game!

    Do you believe this is right?

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  46. Zimmy, supporters like you make me feel ashamed not just for the club but for english football in general. Its supporters like you, with your brand of "support" which has created the negative opinion that many people hold about us now.

    I love to see the passion from our fans and I'm proud to be a part of it. However, I feel like this kind of ignorant or even xenophobic attitude is souring that passion into something more sinister. Its giving us a bad name, mate.

    We all want the same thing; success for the club. But we do NOT all want to be painted with the same brush as some hateful intolerant minority of our fans.

    Please, keep protesting/demonstrating but cut out the racism. There is no place for it in the game.

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  47. <span style="">LOL. What complete bollocks. How can it be living in th past? Proper supporters support their local team.
    Without local support, the club would never have been as succesful, and it's only through success that we have the 'global fanbase'.
    I don't see much of a global fanbase at Prenton Park. Yet, bet your arse, if they won any major competitions, Tranmere would be a global phenonemon too.
    Ask the Toffee's where their global fanbase is now, you know, the one they had in the eighties. It fucked off back to North Wales and Oslo, when they ceased to be succesful. That's a fact.
    Like I said before, SOS represent real supporters. Not Johnny come lately glory hunters, who just want to ride on the coat tails of success. Ask yourself this question: why are midweek European games more atmospheric than weekend matches nowadays? Answer, because the real local fans, can actually get into these games, and create that atmospehere, that's why.
    Anfield has been turned into a sodding library, for the last few years, and it's all because local supporters have been shoved out, because of this soulless global entity, and replaced with prawn butty munching tourists.
    That's what'll make the club wither and die. Not passionate, local support.</span>

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  48. Alan from Ireland4:30 pm, October 09, 2009

    Madchild if you think the owners dipped into their own pockets to sign Torres you are very naive to think so which is why these owners are sucking in supporters like yourself into a false sense of security. The reasons we signed Torres was the wheeling and dealing Rafa did in the summer of 2007 plus he used the money we accumulated from being runners up in thre CL final to sign Torres. Blind leading the blind, for god sake these owners thought klinsmann could do a better jo than Rafa and look what he managed to do with the players at his disposal at Bayern. That alone should be an indicator they didn't sign Torres.

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  49. Roy, don't throw my words straight back at me. I am talking from great and personal experience when i say that OOT are made to feel like they are from Mars sometimes around anfield.

    As for the SOS i made absolutely no reference to them being against OOT. If you had read all of the replies you would have understood my comments.

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  50. Roy, ALl you have to do is read Zimmy's comments above and you will fully understand the types oif ignorant fans i am talking about.

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  51. So what are you saying? Do you think Liverpool should get relegated out of the Premiership to a league that will be more affordable? You are either saying that or else you are expecting our team to survive in the premiership without the necessary ticket revenues.

    Yes its hard to see every match now because of the prices but that is the cost of being A TOP CLUB IN THE COUNTRY! If you want to watch cheap football that only exists for local people and doesn't have a massive global fanbase then go and support some League Two outfit.

    Frankly, I can't believe everyone isn't more proud of the enormous following we can attract worldwide. Its tremendous and it allows us to compete at the top end of the top division of the best league in the world. I for one am proud of that.

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  52. Maybe those brilliant mid week fans should go to the weekend matches more often then Zimmy?

    Yet Another contradiction from the narrow minded one!

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  53. Where did I say living in the past? Liverpool Football cClub has always been a multi-national club, right from when they signed on the dotted line to transfer the Everton name to Liverpool. Yes they might have only been British back then, not from the far east or scandinavia etc, but a lot of the support was always from Ireland due to the Docks and the immigrants coming over.

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  54. I've just read it mate and don't agree with everything he says. His comments about atmosphere are well off the mark. There are thousands of scouse season tickets holders on the kop who don't make any noise whatsover! I must add that I have never met anyone that's given me any bother because of where I'm from, although I'm not saying it doesn't go on! 

    However, I do believe that the club has to retain its scouse heritage and nothing will ever change my opinion on that. And surely you must agree that we do have a lot of glory hunters; people who don't really understand what it means to support Liverpool, and who would disappear into the sunset should we fall from where we currently are. I think these are the people that Zimmys comments are aimed it, not good hardened reds! You see these so called supporters around Anfield on any given match day. Supporting Liverpool isn't a day out to many people; its a way of life!

    Yes, people might not agree about the current protests etc, but it's better to be pro-active than to sit on your ar** complaining but do nothing! That's not aimed at you by the way. We have been lied to and sold down the river on a continuous basis over the last two and a half years. Something that I and many others cannot accept. This isn't about where you're from; its's about attitude not accent, and we have to stand together to do what's right for our club. I believe fully in the Union and will continue to do so!

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  55. Great post anon. Liverpool is not a Franchise, and I for one would be haertbroken if it was run like one, potentially moving out of the city to make money (that's what the other side of Stanley Park do). I don't live in Liverpool, but I love Liverpool as a city. I have loads of friends there. We have great debates before the match on the state of our beloved club. It's idiots that say because some fans aren't local, our opinions don't count. Loads of non-Liverpudians turned up on the marches for Michael Shields, I know I was one of them. Do our opinions not count? I love Liverpool, I love Liverpool football club. I dont live in Liverpool, because my expertise is not relevant to the jobs around Liverpool. I live where the work is so I can afford to go to games.

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  56. Kanwar, everytime i come to this site you seem to be supporting the yanks in some way or rather. Your not one of H+G's men are you?

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  57. What??

    Read my post again and then your reply! You're way off the mark!

    To make 500 kids tickets available at £15 each for every league game would cost the club about £218,500 a season in lost ticket revenue! We currently pay over £30+M in interest payments alone! So it hardly means getting relegated to make it affordable! - A ridiculous statement! Local kids should have the choice but they don't, and that's wrong!

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  58. What?? 
     
    Read my post again and then your reply! I have not once complained about what I have to pay. You're way off the mark! 
     
    To make 500 kids tickets available at £15 each for every league game would cost the club about £218,500 a season in lost ticket revenue! We currently pay over £30+M in interest payments alone! So it hardly means getting relegated to make it affordable! - A ridiculous statement!

    Local kids should have the choice but they don't, and that's wrong!
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  59. Jamie, I often have to criticise some of your articles for their negativity but in this case every word you have said is accurate. Some of my best friends are American and I wouldn't insult them this way. 'Yanks' could be interpreted as racist if Paki's is on today's news.

    The club and the owners have made great strides recently to develop the strength of the business that is Liverpool FC and to enhance it's balance sheet and get new investment. I believe that things will change significantly this season and i hope the team succeeds enough to help that strategy.

    I've been a fan since 1962 both in the city I was born in and outside. Now I live in Spain but that doesn't reduce my rights as a fan. I've got the heritage. I would not support SOS unless they support more positive values like those you suggest.

    H+G need the business to succeed to be able to get out. the quickest way for them to get out is for us to simply help them and encourage them to get the new investment.

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  60. Warning:  I'm an American, not a Yank, maybe a Californian, but certainly an American.

    The reason I ran, not walked, to LFC is because what I perceived to be everything that I admire in a person's values represented by a city and in turn a football club.  Hard work, determination, passion, togetherness, fight not flee, resolve not capitulate.  Liverpool have traditionally exemplified all of those qualities, both the city and the football club.
    In America, I am so utterly spiteful of where our professional sports have evolved that I looked elsewhere to feel good about being a supporter again.  American sports for the most part, with the exception of hockey, have become selfish, all about me, personal battles among spoilt superstars.  I despise it.
    I've been to Anfield twice now and have personally felt welcomed and treated very kindly.  I really have a problem with what Gillett and Hicks have represented on a personal level especially in their dishonesty to the supporters of the club.  But they in no way are representative of America, supporters from America, or the character of most of its people.  I'm not a big fan of the "Yank" term as I think it drags me into it even though it certainly isn't the intention of those English who use it [I hope].  And yes, I get that isn't really what you meant.  But I would rather Gillett and Hicks be called out for what they are personally.  Sure "Yanks" has a nice ring to it, easy to remember, and generally effective in practice.  But there are plenty of us Americans who really and truly identify with LFC and hate the fact that these guys are dragging us down into the shite also.

    Go down the road to Villa and I'm pretty sure you'll find the support base there really enjoy their American owner, Randy Lerner.  He's obviously doing it the right way.

    Last thing, I cannot wait until football is actually the topic of passionate discussion and not the fucking politics of the club.  Stop it already.

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  61. Completely agree with the sentiment of this article. If the owners were Irish, and there were signs reading, 'Liar Paddies Out', I would feel very uncomfortable, and unwelcome, going to a game. There is a growing American fanbase, and I feel for them, with these mob-rule banner slogans.

    The fact the owners are American, has nothig to do with how they run things - good or bad. It's very provincial, and 'small-time' to mention nationality in any arguement, and it only shows one up to be less than worldly-wise.

    I'm all for the owners to leave, but I'd rather be more 'zen' about it. the only way to beat the owners, is to stop supporting their 'system', and not engaging in futile rants.

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  62. Incidently, I thought the 'Robbie Keane talks like Father Ted' chant was priceless.

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  63. Alan from Ireland - a professional organisation that has chants about Munich at the their end of season do? The founding members of the organisation were at that event and didn't do a think to stop the act that went on for at least 6 minutes (that's the length of the video all over the internet). As the appologies went around they admitted they were there, admitted they watched and did nothing, but claimed it was because they didn't know what to do - pulling the mic somewhere before another chorus of your SOS members chanting "MUNICH!" at the top of their voices was clearly above and beyond their competence levels, in the best case scenario. Worst case scenario, they were more than happy to have a performer chanting Munich and only made the apology because the video got on to the internet over a week later.

    Professional organisation my arse. Embarrassment to your club and fans more like... unless you're the sort that gets off on the Munich songs.

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  64. Hillarious from start to finish, are you sure that it's football that really intersts you? It looks to me like most of you would be happier at the end of a platform on Crewe station clutching a note book & pen.
    Like I said hillarious
    S.O.S #218

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  65. Unlike yourself, I've never been rude to a visitor, especially when I don't know the first thing about them.

    If you're first reaction to something you don't like hearing, is to attack, then no wonder you're treated with such contempt. If I were to meet you, at Anfield, the first thing I'd try to do is engage with you, and try to discover what kind of supporter you were. I wouldn't simply jump to judgement, as you've done.

    Try reading Roy's comments - he gets it.

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  66. AlexStar, people like you make me tired. I'd reply to your post, but the mention of the words xenophobia and racism, words that are bandied about all too freely nowadays, by people who often don't understand the weight of their meaning, lead me to conclude that you're not a sensible person.

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  67. Wrong again Kanwar, Sos are not a xenophobic bunch if we were then why do want the arabs in? Oops sorry Saudi Arabians.

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  68. Alan from Ireland8:54 pm, October 09, 2009

    Hold on now a minute a chorus of SOS members it was a minority and it
    shouldn't of happened and the people were banned as what professional
    outfits do. The SOS has made it clear and how more can we that we do not
    condone the actions that occurred. As I have explained to you on numerous
    occassions on your web site with some sensible debate the singing and
    chanting about Munich and Hillsborough is sick on both sides of the fence
    and shouldn't be condoned.
    But it is big of you considering your own web site Republik of Mancunia
    profit off the dead and don't say suppliers etc..you advertise it on your
    web site the profitering of the dead of Heysel and then you became defensive
    and self righteous when confronted about it.
    http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/man_utd/6328/liverpool_and_m.html
    You are a hypocrite - you profit off the dead by advertising and selling
    these t-shirts to your fellow supporters as much as those fans were chanting
    about Munich which is disgusting you sir were making money off the back of
    the supporters who died in Brussels that day. Unlike you SOS took
    responsiblity, what are you doing about your T-Shirt? I still see your are
    selling the T-Shirt you hypocrite.
    http://republikofmancunia.spreadshirt.net/en/GB/Shop/Index/design/design/Without-Killing-Anyone-5339742

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  69. I agree with the article. i don't often agree with Jamie Kanwar's articles.

    My credentials: Liverpool born and bred. Lifelong fan of 40+ years.

    I don't like Gillett and Hicks and I don't like the fact that we have had a lot of broken promises.

    However, the likes of SOS seem blind to how much damage they too have begun to inflict on the reputation of the club. They repeatedly manage to portray Liverpool supporters as being small minded, bigoted, naive, ignorant of life in the real world and incapable of objective assessment.

    The persistent use of the term 'Yanks' succeeds only in weakening their argument distracting attention away from any valid point they might make.

    Secondly, whilst there is much to criticise G&H for they are not personally responsible for the global economic downturn.

    Despite their faults G&H do seem to be slowly building the commercial aspects of LFC which are essential if the club is to stand any chance whatsoever of keeping up over the next ten years or so.

    There is much vitriol from a vociferous minority who whilst criticising G&H are not in a position to do any better themselves; i.e. invest.

    I suspect there is some truth in the suggestion that the continued vitriol from the likes of SOS is detering potential investors. Take your red-tinted glasses off for a moment. If you were interested in investing in a BUSINESS (because believe it or not the words 'investment' and 'business' go together) if the customers did their best to convince you they hated the owners would you invest or would you put your money somewhere less risky and somewhere more comfortable? It's not like LFC are the only club looking for investment.

    If you are looking for someone to blame look no further than Parry and Moores. The scale of their ineptitude and incompetence becomes apparent by the day. Make your starting point the question 'what have G&H done that Moores and Parry could not have done if they had any business sense?'

    The likes of SOS need to wake up and grow up.

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  70. "The weight of their meaning"? Can I assume therefore that you feel these words are going too far? Or maybe you think that your own words are harmless enough and don't warrant such labels?

    Zimmy, I've grown up in areas where people think its ok to abuse others in the street not just for being foreign but for many differences that they just cannot tolerate. Often they don't even think its abuse because since they've grown up in their communities surrounded by others who share their views so, therefore, they want to call it things like "harmless fun" or just "having a laugh". They too would say they're not racist etc. Its not true. And it doesn't matter if its beating up people in the street or waving racial slurs on your banners at a match; it has the same label. It shows your own intolerant attitude and it sours the message you were trying to make in the first place.

    If on the other hand you want to shut your eyes when people question it then sure, its much easier to say that anyone who complains about your offensive insults are simply: "not sensible". Its a reply which was about as intellectually challenging as your earlier slogan that demeaned Americans.

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  71. I didn't misunderstand your post, I believed that you were questioning the prices for tickets now that it is a big club with a global following because of; what you wrote; the thread you were replying in and also your reply now has confirmed this.

    However, I do agree with you that its a shame when kids (and actually not just kids but anyone who doesn't have a high income) are not able to go to watch games. Your suggestion now is that only 500 tickets would be available at a low price. I couldn't possibly disagree with that, it sounds like a great notion but sadly unworkable due to demand and supply and the inevitable resentment from kids who have sacrificed a lot to afford the full ticket or perhaps even season tickets.

    By the way, why did you end it with stating that its wrong for "local kids"? I think its a shame for any kids whether they are local or not. Support for our team stretches far and wide. Which, of course, it should.

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  72. Listen mate ive supported this club for 30 years an ive never come across anyone who speaks so much rubbish, you pretend to call yourself a fan , a fan of whom, your no  fan of this club lad, Ive heard bitters come out with better comments an arguments than what you offer.. Thes lads from SOS are doing whats right for US THE FANS . the club, Why should they change to suit a little beaut who posts bile on the internet, Ill tell you what you remember we once had a manager called Bill , Well Bill would be in the front of any demonstration any protest an would applaude these lads for standing up an fighting for what he believed in also, Liverpool football Club, . Its a shame lad you dont remember Bill.

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  73. California, I can respect your reasons for liking the club, mine are very similar. In fact my proudest moment as a Liverpool happened after we lost in an FA Cup final. The very next day I went out and I saw Liverpool shirts everywhere. The fans got behind our club even in defeat which is something that will forever separate us from many of the ManU fans I know!

    But as you hope people understand H and G aren't representative of all American fans I hope you also know that those guys with the "Yank" slogans aren't representative of us either. I think the support we're building in the US is very promising.

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  74. Completely agree with you here Jaimie. People forget the important work that the American supporters group, LFCNY, did in getting Steven Cohen (who made comments about Hillsborough) off the air here on radio in America. A lot of the revenue that is allowing Liverpool to stay financially strong is coming from American fans. If its only 2 people, why do you (SOS) want to discredit an entire nation of supporters? This is not the first time SOS has disgraced Liverpool's name, they sang about Munich in one of their end-of-year meetings. I wonder what Bill Shankly would say about that. 

    And I don't mean to undermine the Scouse heritage of the club one bit. Liverpool is, and forever shall be, Scouse, and the local support has gotten us to the level we are, but you can't neglect the international support. 

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  75. and another contraddiction Zimmy.........keep em coming.

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  76. Hi Jamie,
    ive been reading your posts for a while now because its included in newsnow and we both know that you write provocatively entitied posts in order to get people to come here be it in anger or otherwise, so your exhaustive internet advertising on the site can get 1 more cent per visit or whatever. Im really sad that I have finally bitten on a post to say something as I always thought you were entitled to opinion, and I still do - but this time I do have something to say.

    Surely, and I reckon I speak for most people here - the only poll worth running at the moment is which is the most Lamentable LFC website of all time - Liverpool Kop or Koptalk. Both are utterly abysmal, both have owners who dont go to liverpool matches, and both are engineered for one purpouse - to increase the pitiful amount of money you make from the awful advertising on the site.

    Your going to counteract this comment (if indeed you allow it to be published) by saying that once again im a sad Liverpool fan with nothing to back up my argument. Let me say "good for you", before you do so. If all the Liverpool fans from time over the years had the honest and refreshing "not blind faith" opinion that you seem to have of the club, then I am sure that LFC would be in a much better position.

    Oh - hang on...

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  77. lots of talk being said in this post already, what i want to say, im really ashamed that there is a group that represent us as liverpool fans with the likes of SOS's mentalitly... i really am.

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  78. Have to agree with Jaimie on this one. The intent of SOS maybe noble and all of us LFC fans agree with them in principle but there has to be a better way of going about it. AT some point they have to realize that they are affecting LFC fans around the globe and as such should rethink their approach. Any football club that wants to be successful in this day and age HAS to have a global following. I would suggest that they seriously rethink their apprach and look for one that is a little more constructive. Consider as a poster mentioned earlier if creating this kind of vitriolic atmosphere is attractive to potential investors? Wouldn't the investors wonder if the same fate awaits them should they make a misstep? I think that passion has clouded judgemen in this case and its easy to see y that is the case. But in the midst of it all, for a better future, level heads have to prevail.

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  79. Jaimie. COME ON.

    If you follow steps 1-7, do you HONESTLY think the G&H will sell the club? That is really naive.

    There is only 3 ways they will leave.
    1) they get an offer to be bought out that meets their valuation;
    2) the value of investment declines by so much that they write off their investment. ; or
    3) The club runs out of cash and either they need to get more investment or, in the worse case, they break their debt covenants and the banks take over/put it in administration.

    Option (2) & (3) are related and are situations we really don't want the club to be in...

    Let's be realistic. G&H have put 10s of millions of their own money into buying the club. We can all b*tch and moan about it, but they are NOT going to write off their investment because there are "few" fans say nasty things about them I say "few" as the the people who are vocal are a large number but a relatively small set of the overall fan base.

    In my view, all this debate about SOS, G&H, ownership is moot from a business point of view. Highly relevant from an ethical/moral standpoint.

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  80. JK - From a financial point of view, the total fanbase is important. To see the relative importance, you need to assess the financial contribution by each segment. Since we dont have the information, we can only make assumptions/suppositions.

    However, highly linked to this, the LOCAL fanbase represents the HERITAGE of the club. The fans from years gone by is an important and integral part of the DNA. It is a vital component of the 'brand' of Liverpool Football Club. The legends of the supporters in the Kop is part of the magic of the club and contributes significantly pulling in the global fans (plus the results, players, etc etc). 

    On this basis, the local fanbase can be considered 'important'. Or to flip it around. Imagine this. European Cup semi-final against Chelsea/Barcelona/Who ever. You turn the TV on. Anfield is empty as the local fans dont come. Can you imagine the impact that would have from a brand point of view?

    Oh. And for the record. I have lived in London since I was 7 when we moved to the UK and have supported the club for 30 years and not a member of SOS.

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  81. Hmm - advertising, eh? please show me ONE, just one commercial advert on this site.  I have ad people contacting me all the time but I'm not interested.  As you can see in the site news section) - 'This site is and will remain advertising free'.  I'm not in it for the money.  So - what's your next false accusation?

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  82. A fan can accept football illiteracy from its owners because they know the vast majority are only in it for kudos or profit.

    They can also excuse a lack of cash, if, like Bill Kenwright, they're in it mostly for love. Fans can even live with pig-headedness, aloofness and a poor knowledge of the club. But they cannot accept having the truth distorted or hidden from them.

    Which is what George Gillett, and his estranged partner in crime, have been doing for almost three years.

    This week alone, thanks to a leaked exchange with the fans group Spirit of Shankly, the former owner of Montreal Canadians ice-hockey team, came out with four statements which do not hold up to scrutiny.

    (1) "The club's debt situation is very sound." It was £44.8 million when Hicks and Gillett took over. It's now £245 million.

    (2) "It wasn't me who said we'd start building a new stadium in 60 days, it was Hicks." Check You Tube. It's you.

    (3) "We've spent £128 million on top of what's come in over the past 18 months to buy players." Rafa Benitez's net spend in that time has been £20 million.

    (4) "Liverpool is in an extraordinarily good financial position." So how come the banks have told you to find new investment, sell-up or they'll re-possess the club?

    This opportunistic, former bit-part player in a small-time North American sport has been found to be totally out of his depth in English football. His deceit merely adds insult to injury.

    As they say in ice-hockey, it's time to get the puck out of here.

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    ut stright to the chase here .... not a red herring in site
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  83. A fan can accept football illiteracy from its owners because they know the vast majority are only in it for kudos or profit.

    They can also excuse a lack of cash, if, like Bill Kenwright, they're in it mostly for love. Fans can even live with pig-headedness, aloofness and a poor knowledge of the club. But they cannot accept having the truth distorted or hidden from them.

    Which is what George Gillett, and his estranged partner in crime, have been doing for almost three years.

    This week alone, thanks to a leaked exchange with the fans group Spirit of Shankly, the former owner of Montreal Canadians ice-hockey team, came out with four statements which do not hold up to scrutiny.

    (1) "The club's debt situation is very sound." It was £44.8 million when Hicks and Gillett took over. It's now £245 million.

    (2) "It wasn't me who said we'd start building a new stadium in 60 days, it was Hicks." Check You Tube. It's you.

    (3) "We've spent £128 million on top of what's come in over the past 18 months to buy players." Rafa Benitez's net spend in that time has been £20 million.

    (4) "Liverpool is in an extraordinarily good financial position." So how come the banks have told you to find new investment, sell-up or they'll re-possess the club?

    This opportunistic, former bit-part player in a small-time North American sport has been found to be totally out of his depth in English football. His deceit merely adds insult to injury.

    As they say in ice-hockey, it's time to get the puck out of here.

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    cut straight to the chase there and not a red herring in site
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  84. i'm quite surprised that its this close...
    BTW Jamie, where are you based?

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  85. A lot of digital ink has been used to write about the poor management style and broken promises of the two American owners ever since they assumed ownership of Liverpool Football Club. I don't mean to go over old ground, we all know that based on what we have seen so far the club would have been far more successful without them. But it's clear they are not interested in Liverpool winning trophies, only in making a profit. It's a management style indicative of American businessmen, it's a style called "Spreadsheet Management ". Success is based on how much profit you make, not on how many trophies you win. It's all about 'Return on Investment'. This management style will dictate whether a new stadium is built, how much Rafa is given to spend on players and how much tickets cost.
    The reality is if Liverpool finished 2nd or 3rd in the Premiership for the next five years and did well in the Champions League without winning it, Hicks & Gillett would consider this success due to the revenues generated by television and gate receipts. They will never admit this and will only communicate their commitment to the success of the club in carefully crafted press releases written by their Public Relations firm.
    <div id="more" class="asset-more">

    If a 3-5 year Strategic Business Plan has been developed for Liverpool FC by Managing Director Christian Purslow, and it should have been, I guarantee you winning trophies is not the number one priority. The number one's will be about maximizing profit and reducing expenditure. Don't get me wrong, of course the club needs to be financially stable, but if it means making less profit in order to put a quality team on the pitch and win as many trophies as possible, that gets my vote.

    To further support this thinking a recent article in <span style="color: #066553;">'The Independent'</span> reveals there was a prospectus published in March by investment banks Rothschild and Merrill Lynch to attract potential investors to Liverpool that stated that net summer spending will be locked in at £20m until 2014. This includes wage increases from contract renewals. There is a section in the prospectus that talks about "player transfer payments" which states "Management believes that the normalised long-run level of new net player capital expenditure is £20m." See what I mean about "Spreadsheet Management"?
    When you compare the ownership of Liverpool versus Chelsea or Manchester City there is one fundamental difference. Abramovich and Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan are prepared to loose money or make less profit in order to make their "hobby" club successful. To them it's all about winning trophies, not making as much money as possible. But that's not the case with Hicks and Gillett, to them it's all about making money.
    I love Liverpool but I fear for the future of the club under the current ownership. If given a second chance, David Moores would never have sold his shares to Hicks & Gillett, that is for certain, as I'm convinced he loves Liverpool too.
    I don't have an answer to this dilemma but a club owned by the supporters, as proposed by <span style="color: #066553;">ShareLiverpoolFC</span> makes more and more sense every day.

    a well written piece off the liverpool banter site
    </div>

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  86. sat evening.


    53% say yes. 

    JK - what is that telling you?

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  87. Resentment?? Again you miss my point! I'm not talking about 15/16 year olds who have part time jobs so that they can go to the game. I'm on about 8/9/10 year olds, who otherwise would never get the chance to go to the match. There used to be a boys pen at Anfield. A place where the young uns could go to enjoy the game; it was also part of their education. Man City give free tickets to schools in the area. I know we couldn't do this but we could offer schools the chance of purchasing reduced cost tickets so that have that opportunity!

    Why do I say local? The clues in the name lad! Thats not a dig but a fact! Its where they live, its their home and their birth right!

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  88. That tells me there are a lot of ignorant Liverpool fans out there who are happy to condone an unprofessional, xenophobic approach to club matters. For them, the means probably justify the end, despite the damage it's doing to the reputation of the club and the fans overall.

    These are probably the same fans who think it's okay to cheat as long it gains Liverpool an advantage.  Diving to wi a penalty for example.

    Overall, it's  sad indictment of some Liverpool fans.

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  89. Usually I disagree with JK, but on the point about dropping the word "Yanks" I agree. I also think the poster was right who said some members of SOS give a heavily biased and parochial view of Liverpool supporters--and of the town itself. I say this as someone born and bred in Liverpool (and as a fan of 35 years standing). On the other hand, perhaps some members of SOS are just ordinary working class folk and an insulting adjective easily comes to mind when they disagree with someone. In other words "Yanks" would easily become "Jocks" or "Wops" if the present owners were Scottish or Italian. Perhaps these people are not very well-educated and not very PC. However, we should certainly understand their pain and appreciate that these people are often the life-blood of the club and would continue to attend games and love the club even if Liverpool was at the bottom of division 3.

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  90. In the UK.

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  91. Alan from Ireland9:36 am, October 12, 2009

    I see Scott you didn't reply - did you take the t-shirt down yet?

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  92. You're in the minority Jaimie.  Trying to whip up a PC outrage bus does not appear to have worked does it?

    Yank is no more offensive to an American than Limey is to me.  They are each couched in history and were almost terms of endearment in WWII and Korea!

    Finally, to those of you who say that SOS is harming our chances of potential investment?  Take a look at The Times.  Our Potential investors are put off by the 300 Million Pound debt those two Yank Liars have placed on our club.

    40 Million Pounds, to Eight times that in Debt in three years.  Thats what the Yank Liars have saddled us with.  Open your eyes.  SOS are a symptom of the disease that is killing our club.  They can also be a part of the cure.

    For the Final time, SOS represents its members and its members ALONE.  They just happen to all be Liverpool fans,  If you want to change the direction SOS takes, then join and change it, you have exactly the same right to as the next man.

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  93. You just don't get it Chris, do you?  You are completely and utterly missing the point with you irretrivably insular point of view.

    Okay how about this: if you can compile a credible argument as to why and how using the word Yank benefits Liverpool fans; enhances SOS's goal of having the owners removed AND how it's compatible with the Liverpool Way,  I will post it as an article on the site.

    Since it's apparently so important to you, this is an easy request, no?

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  94. you sound like one of the old prime ministers ...the late neville chamberlain  ... if adolf hitler were to walk up anfield road you'd no doubt roll the red carpet out.... the enemy is here,its real and unless we make it uncomfortable for them then preseason bargain basements will become the norm...as for the union ...there are those that raise their heads above the parapet and those that don't .....just a thought

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