24 Oct 2009

POLL: Is Spirit of Shankly's xenophobic “YANK LIARS OUT” approach compatible with the ‘Liverpool Way’?

I believe that Spirit of Shankly’s ‘Yank Liars Out! approach to ousting the owners is unprofessional, undignified, and lacking in all credibility. Please vote in the poll, which I'm re-posting in a bid to reach as many Liverpool fans as possible.

Vote at the bottom of the post

Spirit of Shankly is made up of a miniscule minority of Liverpool fans yet, amazingly, they purport to represent ALL Liverpool fans. As such, are we to believe that all Liverpool fans - and by that, I mean the global fanbase, not just fans from Liverpool - agree with a xenophobic approach to club matters?

From my interaction with SOS members, it seems to me that they only really care about the views of game-going, Liverpool-based fans, as if they are the only fans in the world.

How exactly does their ‘Yank Liars Out’ campaign fit with the Liverpool Way of doing things? Such a campaign – and the use of derogatory words like ‘Yank’ – is completely the opposite of everything Liverpool FC stands for, or SHOULD stand for.

And Yank IS derogatory in this context because of the way SOS uses it in conjunction with the word ‘Liar’. Otherwise why use it all? Why not just say "LYING OWNERS OUT!" or "HICKS and GILLET: GET THESE LIARS OUT!". What has the fact they are American got to do with it?

This blatantly xenophobic approach is just an extension of terrace yob mentality, which is –and has been - a blight on English football. You can imagine the thugs on the terrace chanting ‘fcuking yanks out!’ – well, SOS have just taken that philosophy and made it their mantra.

How credible!

This antagonist, adversarial approach is childish in the extreme and makes all Liverpool fans look bad.

What next? If Prince Faisal buys out George Gillett and proceeds to make mistakes during his reign, will we be seeing a campaign with the mantra ‘ARAB LIARS OUT!’?

Anyone who supports the ‘YANK LIARS OUT’ or any use of the word ‘YANK’ by a group that represents fans will, I presume, support the following too:

CHINK LIARS OUT! (If the owners were Chinese)
DEGO/GUINEA LIARS OUT! (If the owners were Italian)
PADDY LIARS OUT! (If the owners were Irish)
GOOK LIARS OUT! (If the owners were Vietnamese)

Anyone who DOES support this type of thing is just part of the problem in my opinion.

Any group that purports to represent Liverpool fans has a DUTY to act in a professional, civilized manner. In order to be taken seriously, such a group must be fair and BE SEEN TO BE FAIR.

And this is not about being PC. There are more offensive words than 'Yank' out there; the point is it is a belittling word in this context; it is personal; counter-productive; destroys SOS’s credibility from the get-go, and places Liverpool fans in a negative light.

In short, it comes across like a group of yobs just slithered off the terraces and formed a fan group. Shouldn't Liverpool fans be demanding a group that is better than that; a group that represents the best things about Liverpool FC?

What other credible organization would use such an unprofessional mantra to achieve a goal? Give me one example. Just one.

At present, SOS is tainted by its terrace-yob mentality. It needs to become a professional organization that does not personally attack its targets.

If Hicks and Gillett are liars then attack them with the FACTS. Prove they are liars and let the the evidence speak for itself, without the cheap personal attacks.

In principle, I am all for SOS’s mission and what they are trying to achieve. I think a fan’s group is a superb and necessary idea, and I applaud them for taking action. I too would prefer it if the club had new owners, but going forward, this is clearly not the way to go about it.

When it comes to ousting the owners in a professional manner, I suggest the following (as a bare minimum):


1. Drop all personal insults/derogatory references to the Owners.

2. Tirelessly investigate H+G's claims/lies about money spent/the stadium etc. If that means hiring specialist researchers/forensic accountants etc to prove they are liars (or prove beyond a reasonable doubt with the available evidence), then do it.

3. Focus on specifics: i.e. the 128m figure quoted in the Academy interview. Prove it's a lie then show everyone it's a lie. SOS's retort to the interview on their site is not based in fact, thus it is not persuasive.

4. Representatives should conduct themselves with dignity at all times. Be better than the owners; don't operate on their level.

5. Never give in to emotion or the temptation to hurl insults.

6. Damn the owners with FACTS. Prove they are liars then EFFECTIVELY disseminate the results are far and wide as possible. This means a more professional media strategy is required. The interview posted on TLW was very amateurish.

7. Secure TV/magazine/newspaper interviews and attack H+G with the unembellished FACTS.

8. Increase the volume of support by showing Liverpool fans SOS is a professional organisation.

It is perfectly possible to be harsh and damning without resorting to playground tactics.

Re point 7: In it's current form, I sincerely doubt that any TV company would grant an interview to a baying, xenophobic mob. This is one example of how SOS is shooting itself in the foot.

This post constitutes my opinion (I apparently have to put this disclaimer at the end of posts now!)



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58 comments:

  1. Yank isn't a term which is seen by americans as insulting where as the other terms are seen as insulting to the people whom they are used to.
    They are liars. What SOS are doing is supported by the most Liverpool Fans but you wouldn't have a clue about that.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Jaimie,

    best article you've written, and i hope you use your growing stature amongst online LFC supporters to push this point (hell, make it an agenda....).

    people slagged rafa and the owners (rightly so, in my opinion) for airing dirty laundry in public, splashing controversy across the redtops and broadsheets, yet this Spirit of Shankly lot (God, the poor man's probably writhing in his grave over the misuse of his good name) are doing exactly that - and at a time where solidarity is paramount.

    do none of them think that their energy would be better used marching 10,000-strong singing LFC songs and building the atmos in anfield to help pull our lads across the line in what will undoubtedly be a massively difficult and important game?

    this lot make me sick, not only as a fan of the club that are being embarassed at their actions, but as an american as well.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Terrace yob? I think your use of this term about sums up in one go that your views on LFC have little or no credibility. Talk about out of touch.

    ReplyDelete
  4. It depends on who you are calling a YANK some americans do take that as an insult.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Exactly.  That's the point.  The other point SOS supporters seem to be missing is that HOW Liverpool FC supporters are perceived is important.

    How do you think the rest of the world sees a supporter's group that goes around shouting 'Yank Liar's out'?!

    Perception is everything, and NO ONE will take a group seriously that behaves in such a manner.

    You have to be professional and BE SEEN TO BE professional.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Yankee site asking this question... how novel

    The facts are they have lied, tart it up anyway you like! they have lied.
    Every single season, whilst the debt (loan)is placed with the club paying interest payments, it costing Rafa a major player, Torres, Masch, or etc...

    Second season Rafa as had No transfer kitty! coincidence? when this in second the loan been in place!

    Maybe we should sell Gerrard to service loan next year, before some people understand?

    Kanwar, didn't once suggest selling Gerrard? still wearing your united boxers are you!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Dear oh dear. Someone calls you out, and you delete their comment. Sad case. Don't put up your opinion if you don;t want to be called out for it.

    ReplyDelete
  8. No one is disputing there are problems with the owners.  Why can't you separate that from HOW the campaign to oust them is being run?

    A group that purports to represent all Liverpool fans should do so in professional manner that is keeping with the history and traditions of the club.

    And judging by the results of the POLL so far (which has been running for almost 3 weeks by the way), the majority of voters agree that SOS needs to change.

    ReplyDelete
  9. And yes, I did suggest selling Gerrard once....after he tried to leave for Chelsea after the Cl win in 2005.  And I stand by it.  It was a disgrace that the homegrown captain of his hometown club wanted to leave and DID leave...before changing his mind hours later. 

    Since then, Gerrard has shown his committment to the cause, and that's great.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I know, Why don't we bin YNWA and sing star spangled banner to our owners to so our gratitude to them for saddle us with a massive debt and a below average squad.

    Are you a liverpool fan? Seriously I ask this as I can't believe that someone who claims to support this club would put such a pompous load of twaddle on the internet.

    The club and city is famous for being friendly but overstep the mark and you will have vengance rained down apon thee, And that is is what is happening to them two jokers.

    And to be frank, If the americans are getting shirty about us calling for them to get out, you better warn them never to look near the middle east, That is pure hatred.

    Some of which I am growing for you and your santimonius shite that you continue to post via the means of the internet.

    HAVE A NICE DAY Y'ALL

    ReplyDelete
  11. <table>
    <tbody>
    <tr>
    <td>
    <div>Yankee site asking this question... how novel Its that xenophobic? lol</div>
    <div>The facts are they have lied, tart it up anyway you like! they have lied. 
    Every single season, whilst the debt (loan)is placed with the club paying interest payments, it costing Rafa a major player, Torres, Masch, or etc...</div>
    <div>This the second season Rafa as had No transfer kitty! coincidence? when this loan been in place for two year now! 
     
    Maybe we should sell Gerrard to service loan next year, before some people understand?</div>
    <div>Think your under estimating the power of the fans, to get the message across to the media, these yanks aren't wanted...</div>
    <div>Xenophobic. lol</div>
    <div>Maybe their using language most will understand to the message in the press, which is more important, is it not!</div>
    <div>Kanwar, didn't once suggest selling Gerrard? still wearing your united boxers are you!</div>
    </td>
    </tr>
    </tbody>
    </table>

    ReplyDelete
  12. <table>
    <tbody>
    <tr>
    <td>
    <div>Yankee site asking this question... how novel Its that xenophobic? lol</div>
    <div>The facts are they have lied, tart it up anyway you like! they have lied. 
    Every single season, whilst the debt (loan)is placed with the club paying interest payments, it costing Rafa a major player, Torres, Masch, or etc...</div>
    <div>This the second season Rafa as had No transfer kitty! coincidence? when this loan been in place for two year now! 
     
    Maybe we should sell Gerrard to service loan next year, before some people understand?</div>
    <div>Think your under estimating the power of the fans, to get the message across to the media, these yanks aren't wanted...</div>
    <div>Xenophobic. lol</div>
    <div>Maybe their using language most will understand to the message in the press, which is more important, is it not!</div>
    <div>Kanwar, didn't once suggest selling Gerrard? still wearing your united boxers are you!</div>
    </td>
    </tr>
    </tbody>
    </table>

    ReplyDelete
  13. <table>
    <tbody>
    <tr>
    <td>
    <div>Yankee site asking this question... how novel Its that xenophobic? lol</div>
    <div>The facts are they have lied, tart it up anyway you like! they have lied. 
    Every single season, whilst the debt (loan)is placed with the club paying interest payments, it costing Rafa a major player, Torres, Masch, or etc...</div>
    <div>This the second season Rafa as had No transfer kitty! coincidence? when this loan been in place for two year now! 
     
    Maybe we should sell Gerrard to service loan next year, before some people understand?</div>
    <div>Think your under estimating the power of the fans, to get the message across to the media, these yanks aren't wanted...</div>
    <div>Xenophobic. lol</div>
    <div>Maybe their using language most will understand to the message in the press, which is more important, is it not!</div>
    <div>Kanwar, didn't once suggest selling Gerrard? still wearing your united boxers are you!</div>
    </td>
    </tr>
    </tbody>
    </table>

    ReplyDelete
  14. <table>
    <tbody>
    <tr>
    <td>
    <div>Yankee site asking this question... how novel Its that xenophobic? lol</div>
    <div>The facts are they have lied, tart it up anyway you like! they have lied. 
    Every single season, whilst the debt (loan)is placed with the club paying interest payments, it costing Rafa a major player, Torres, Masch, or etc...</div>
    <div>This the second season Rafa as had No transfer kitty! coincidence? when this loan been in place for two year now! 
     
    Maybe we should sell Gerrard to service loan next year, before some people understand?</div>
    <div>Think your under estimating the power of the fans, to get the message across to the media, "these yanks aren't wanted"</div>
    <div>Xenophobic. lol</div>
    <div>Maybe their using language most will understand to get the message in the press, which is more important, is it not!</div>
    <div>Kanwar, didn't once suggest selling Gerrard? still wearing your united boxers are you!</div>
    </td>
    </tr>
    </tbody>
    </table>

    ReplyDelete
  15. <table>
    <tbody>
    <tr>
    <td>
    <div>Yankee site asking this question... how novel Its that xenophobic? lol</div>
    <div>The facts are they have lied, tart it up anyway you like! they have lied. 
    Every single season, whilst the debt (loan)is placed with the club paying interest payments, it costing Rafa a major player, Torres, Masch, or etc...</div>
    <div>This the second season Rafa as had No transfer kitty! coincidence? when this loan been in place for two year now! 
     
    Maybe we should sell Gerrard to service loan next year, before some people understand?</div>
    <div>Think your under estimating the power of the fans, to get the message across to the media, "these yanks aren't wanted"</div>
    <div>Xenophobic. lol</div>
    <div>Maybe their using language most will understand to get the message in the press, which is more important, is it not!</div>
    <div>Kanwar, didn't once suggest selling Gerrard? still wearing your united boxers are you!</div>
    </td>
    </tr>
    </tbody>
    </table>

    ReplyDelete
  16. <table>
    <tbody>
    <tr>
    <td>
    <div>Yankee site asking this question... how novel Its that xenophobic? lol</div>
    <div>The facts are they have lied, tart it up anyway you like! they have lied. 
    Every single season, whilst the debt (loan)is placed with the club paying interest payments, it costing Rafa a major player, Torres, Masch, or etc...</div>
    <div>This the second season Rafa as had No transfer kitty! coincidence? when this loan been in place for two year now! 
     
    Maybe we should sell Gerrard to service loan next year, before some people understand?</div>
    <div>Think your under estimating the power of the fans, to get the message across to the media, "these yanks aren't wanted"</div>
    <div>Xenophobic. lol</div>
    <div>Maybe their using language most will understand to get the message in the press, which is more important, is it not!</div>
    <div>Kanwar, didn't once suggest selling Gerrard? still wearing your united boxers are you!</div>
    </td>
    </tr>
    </tbody>
    </table>

    ReplyDelete
  17. Your ignorance is astounding.  Congratulaions!

    ReplyDelete
  18. Yankee site asking this question... how novel Its that xenophobic? lol
     
    The facts are they have lied, tart it up anyway you like! they have lied.
    Every single season, whilst the debt (loan)is placed with the club paying interest payments, it costing Rafa a major player, Torres, Mascha, or etc...
     
    This the second season Rafa as had No transfer kitty! Coincidence? When this loan been in place for two year now!
     
    Maybe we should sell Gerrard to service loan next year, before some people understand?
     
    Think your under estimating the power of the fans, to get the message across to the media, "these yanks aren't wanted"
     
    Xenophobic. lol
    Maybe their using language most will understand to get the message in the press, which is more important, is it not!
     
    Kanwar, didn't once suggest selling Gerrard? Still wearing your united boxers are you!

    ReplyDelete
  19. absolute idiot Kanwar

    ReplyDelete
  20. Have you ever been go a Liverpool game by the way?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Since you're repeating previous posts, I figured it would be only appropriate to repeat my comment on a similartopic about the alleged xenophobia that SOS has, this time unedited, thank you.

    ----
    I think an important point you're missing is that SOS is not just about match going, local Liverpool supporters, but in fact is a country/world-wide union. We have many people across the country who are part of the union, and we have members from outside the UK too. My American fiancée, born and raised in Alabama and now living in Phoenix, Arizona, has recently become a member. She understands that when we says Yanks, we're not tarnishing an entire nation, but it's a quick, effective method of identifying Hicks and Gillet. When we're chanting and marching on the streets, should we be politically correct and say. "What do we want?" "Tom Hicks and George Gillett to leave our club" "When do we want it?" "In the near future or if at all possible NOW!"

    The term Yank, or Yankee, can be seen as derogatory, but also playful or a referential colloquial term (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee). Yet to compare it to Chink, which can never be seen in a playful light, is completely ridiculous. To think that an entire group is xenophobic for labeling two people "Yanks" is rather silly. This is not berating the entire population of the United States. This is stating that there are two Americans who are acting in a despicable manner, and we need to let them know they are not wanted.

    You're quick to label the union for being xenophobic about the usage of "Yank," yet be careful who you're tarnishing. If I'm so xenophobic as you believe me to be, why am I marrying a "Yank"? If the union is so xenophobic, then why do we have members worldwide?

    I would like to congratulate you on this website, you've obviously done
    well to bring in the readers with your sensationalistic opinionated pieces. I look forward to hearing you on TalkSport soon.

    Kind Regards,
    A non-match going Scouser

    ReplyDelete
  22. And to second my post, What gives you the right to call someone Xenophobic?

    As well as being a jumped up plastic blogger you now seem to be able to label everyone who shouts a xenophobic?

    Your a bigger tit than I had be informed.

    In fact is it not you showing xenophobia toward SOS?


    Feast your chops on this and then have a look in the mirror.

    Xenophobia in its purest form.

    While some will state that the "target" group is a set of persons not accepted by the society, in reality only the phobic person need hold the belief that the target group is not (or should not be) accepted by society. While the phobic person is aware of the aversion (even hatred) of the target group, they may not identify it or accept it as a fear.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Arf!

    You are seriously deluded. I know lets not sing about everton or anyone as it might offend them.

    I see natural selection has failed in your case, but however you claim to be on side with SOS, How do you suggest they get rid of the yankee doodle dandies then?

    I mean a well worded letter from one would go down spiffing old boy.

    Bollocks, This country and more ept this city is built on fine men who went out and campaigned, rallied, shouted and scraped for everything it is got.

    Have a look over the history books pal and then tell me the last time anything was achieved by pleasent conversation and gentle persuation?

    I'll be waiting here for you.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Thanks Michael.

    I'm posting this Poll again because it is an important issue, and I want as many Liverpool fans as possible to vote.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Yeah its all the yanks fault and in no way the result of 20 years of mismanagement on and off the field. Will this protest end at the gates of David Moores mansion ???. The vast majority of liverpools problems off the field are due to the way David Moores ran the show, 15 years of sitting on his hands whillst Utd and others moved with the times when English football went global during the early 90s and lets not forget who it was who, at the eleventh hour turned from cash rich Arabs to cash poor Yanks.......

    ReplyDelete
  26. Good you are Kaywhatever.

    Delete the posts that make you out to be a foolish wannabe hack.

    Bravo, Your a joke.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Right, I understand that, but when you're labelling an entire organisation as xenophobic, I consider it to be rather slanderous.

    I would actually say the better comparison of using the term Yank would be like being called Scouser. I'm proud to be called Scouse, but I know there are some who think being called Scouse means some person who is a skinhead who is always up to no good. Well people who know me, would know that definition is kind of the antithesis of who I am.

    Should the New York Yankees be lablled something else because that's a xenophobic term?

    My fiancee who is here visiting me, has stated that to her, Yank is offensive because that implies someone from the North of the US. Being from Alabama, to her that is offensive. However, as I mentioned previously, she understands why we use the term Yank. It's quick and effective.

    For you to basically copy your original post, shows that you don't care for what people comment with when they even use facts. I really would recommend you research some of these facts in future for when you post.

    And just to add. George Gillett was born in Wisconsin. So by definition he is a Yank. Tom Hicks however, well that one might be unfair.

    ReplyDelete
  28. They're just fans who love their club as much as anyone else, and are trying to make a difference for the better before it's too late.

    You've said yourself that you recognise the problems that the owners bring, so what exactly are YOU doing to try and change that?

    You've made suggestions above, but how many have you personally followed up?

    You also said: "<span>If Hicks and Gillett are liars then attack them with the FACTS. Prove they are liars and let the the evidence speak for itself."</span>

    You mean like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHBcVVfQ2x8
    I would say that it looks like SOS are doing just that, meanwhile you're helping the cause how?

    There is one way you can help, Mr Kanwar.

    12 Noon. Sunday 25th October 2009.
    LFC Supporters Club. Lower Breck Road, Anfield.

    Let your voice be heard.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Referring to them as "Yanks" isn't meant to be polite... there are a cancer eating away at our club, we want them out ASAP. If it offends them that much, they know where the door is.

    ReplyDelete
  30. you're one bad biff you lid

    ReplyDelete
  31. Sir Richard Pumpaloaf7:33 pm, October 24, 2009

    Arf!

    ReplyDelete
  32. Why are people missing the point so badly?  it's not about whether it offends the owners! It's baout how such a campaign reflects on Liverpool fans as a whole.  Going around spouting pejorative epithets reflects badly on fans and the club - it is not a credible way to proceed.

    You need to stop thinking so short-term - if SOS is going to survive as a credible fan organisation in the long term, it needs to become more professional.  This owner thing is a short term problem - SOS is applying a short-term (non) solution to a long-term problem.

    SOS's credibility is already suffering as it is - if they want to be taken seriously AND grow their membership, change is needed.

    For example, I will not join a fan's group that proceeds in such a manner.  people may argue that I don't matter but there will be tens of thousands of people who think like me, and SOS is alienating that section of the fanbase.

    Sooner or later, another fan group will come along that does things the right way, and SOS will wither and die. 

    Unless they change.

    ReplyDelete
  33. I'm no fan of SOS, they are far to tribal for my liking, yet! whatever way it takes to get the attention of the press, works great for me! As its for the greater cause of the club.

    You yourself use the word "xenophobic" to attract attention to your site. SOS use "yanks out"

    Still supporting RoM? Still talking to "Scott the Red"

    ReplyDelete
  34. "If Adolf Hitler flew in today, they'd send a limousine anyway"

    When are you starting up this new fan group that does things the right way then?

    ReplyDelete
  35. I use 'Xenophobic' to attract people to the site?!  Yes, that's really a credible argument. 

    and your apathy towards how SOS conducts itself is indicative of why this problem exists.

    And yes, I have talk to Scott at RoM - it's called building relationships between rival fans/fan websites instead of jumping on the 'all macs are c&nts bandwagon. 

    If you don't like that, tough.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Did you even read the aims on the Spirit of Shankly website?

    http://www.spiritofshankly.com/aims.html

    There are several aims that SOS are attempting and it just so happens that trying to get rid of Tom Hicks and George Gillett is the most vocal at the moment. However, there are others on the board who's aims are to find out what is happening in the community and how to improve it. How to improve relations with both local and international supporters.

    It is quite frustrating when you could simply find out your own answers with a little more initiative.

    ReplyDelete
  37. I didn't say I was.  Someone inevitably will though.

    ReplyDelete
  38. You're just deflecting attention away from the issue.  SOS's aims mean nothing to me whilst they're conducting themselves in such a manner.

    SOS is group with a yob mentality.  That is not a good way to proceed.

    ReplyDelete
  39. By causing controversy. Yes, that is a well known and often used method to attract people to present their views. Hence the TalkSport "jibe" in my other comment.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Jamie, I find your commenmts a little too close to trying to stir up something thats not there. As you can see from my name, I am of Cantonese origin (3rd generation) and live in the great city of Liverpool. I am a scouser and have always been treated as one - am not labelled as a 'chink'. If you had bothered yourself to do a bit of proper investigation you would have found that Liverpool has the oldest chinese community in EUROPE and one of the oldest afro caribean communities in the WORLD, therefore your suggested xenophobia is just a by product of lazy journalism. please do LFC a favour and support your local club - bristol int it? you are not welcom and probably have not been to Anfield for many a year - your just a lazy hack wannabe trying to make a name name out of our great club

    ReplyDelete
  41. Why don't you do it yourself? How long are you going to leave it? If everyone sits back and waited for this new group of knights in shining armour to come, where are we going to end up, both financially, and as a club? If, as you say, you believe the owners are a bad thing for the club you claim to love, you can either support the lads who are currently trying to oust them, or go about it in your own way.

    Sitting at the computer desk won't solve the problem.

    ReplyDelete
  42. I'm not deflecting it. You're saying that SOS needs to stop acting so short term, and so I showed you how SOS was acting on various terms, short, medium and long as well as constant.

    What about the coverage on Five Live, North West Tonight, the youtube videos now being posted. These all tick the boxes in your list of things that SOS need to do, but still using the "Yanks Out" shouts. Or are you conventiently ignoring these things. Please, help yourself.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/ondemand/england/realmedia/northwesttonight/northwesttonight?bgc=C0C0C0&nbram=1&lang=en&nbwm=1&bbram=1&ms3=6&ms_javascript=true&bbcws=1&size=16x9&bbwm=1 Skip to 18.35

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00nbwmz/5_live_Breakfast_23_10_2009/ Skip to 1:25.24

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHBcVVfQ2x8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p0l7vX5U0I
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcJxGVoeSVg

    If you ever decide to go to an SOS meeting which is free for all to go to. You will find that this is not a group with yob mentality. We're just football fans who are very passionate about our support and see that it is the American owners who will be the downfall of the club we love.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Why is people always come up with the same cliched responses?

    This site is visited by a hell of alot of people - opening up the debate for those people and presenting a different POV is essential, and is one way to make a difference.

    Furthermore, my goal (in the short-term) is to try and persuade SOS that they taking a professional approach is preferble to acting like a bunch of yobs.

    If I, and my fellow fans who feel the same way, can persuade SOS to drop the playground tactics then that will obviously make a difference (in the long-terms) to how SOS is perceived.

    I want to join SOS; I want to be part of a fan's group, but not like this.

    And as you can see by the Poll results so far, Liverpool fans who have voted want CHANGE.

    Of course, SOS can continue in it's current vein and become even more of a laughing stock.  That's up to them.  but mark my words, people will wake up eventually and SOS will suffer.

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  44. Just to add to this point. How many people do you think tuned in to this weeks episode of Question Time because Nick Griffin, BNP leader, was on the programme?

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  45. I'm sorry, Michael, but that's a pretty poor media showing for a group that supposedly represents one of the most famous football clubs in the world.

    There are many media entitites that wouldn't touch SOS with a barge pole precisely because of the way it presents itself.

    SOS should be aiming to spread their message via the highes profile TV/RADIO/Print media outlets via interviews etc.  that won't happen whilst they are so unprofessional.

    And I am not suggesting that all SOS members have a yob mentality; for those on the outside looking in, I argue that it appears that SOS has a yob mentality.

    Can you not see how this might be damaging to SOS's mentality?

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  46. Yes - and what was the media response to his appearance the next day? 

    Complete and utter demonisation.

    If SOS went on Question Time, there would be people like me questioning their xenophobic stance; if they responded with pig-headed belligerence (and ignorance in the case of some SOS apologists), then their credibility would plummet even more.

    SOS needs to be beyond reproach and beyond question.

    it should just be about damning the owners with irrefutable facts; highlighting lies; explaining how and why the owners are bad for the club, spreading the word as far and wide as possible and whipping up as much support as possible.

    All of this is possible without the xenophobic labelling.

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  47. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=688390&sec=england&cc=5901
    http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/137/england/2009/10/22/1577396/exclusive-liverpool-supporters-union-label-liars-hicks
    http://www.extrafootie.co.uk/clubs/detailed/liverpool/30121/
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jIj7mRmu21yPnSs8zNNQvpNTb4UQ
    http://www.tribalfootball.com/liverpool-fans-plan-10000-protest-march-man-utd-clash-398011
    http://www.clickliverpool.com/sport/liverpool-fc/126615-liverpool-fc-supporters-expose-george-gillett-lies.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1222365/Liverpool-Red-alert-10-000-fans-plan-protest-march-Gerrard-set-miss-United-clash.html

    All from quick google searches.

    As for the feeling of yob mentality, your comment quite clearly states "SOS is a group with yob mentality". My feelings on it. Well, clearly I'm going to be biased on the matter looking from the inside and knowing that this is not a yob mentality. My fiancee read through the entire website and her basis of joining the union was on what she read on the website. I don't think she would have joined otherwise.

    I don't think it's a yob mentality, I see it as passion. But then, I can imagine many people would not want to go in a pub when a group of fans in there are celebrating a last minute goal, thinking they are yobs. Then you're going along the lines of all football supporters being yobs. So I ask, is the perception of SOS having mob mentality yours alone, or those of everyone?

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  48. Yes it is possible, and as I've been trying to point out, using such a term is not xenophobic. And I've been pointing out how they're highlighting the lies and explaining why the owners are bad.

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  49. Jamie - why isnt there a "i am not bothered" option as it is a valid option/response. 

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  50. Quite frankly, whether SOS are or are not xenophobic is rather irrelevant - there are arguments for and against, as discussed above and at the end, it will be an opinion that i doubt people will change.

    Wouldnt a more appropriate question and poll to ask is whether SOS represent the average fan? Your article is totally positioned around this question (second paragraph).

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  51. Are the New York Yankees xenophobic then?

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  52. JK - what makes YOU the voice of the fans?

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  53. It has been very interesting to see the change in the poll results all of sudden.  I have followed these results closely and have regularly checked the website.  They were running the exact opposite a few days ago!  Seems a bit fishy that they have suddenly turned around just before you posted it again!!! 

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  54. Where have I ever stated that I am 'The voice of the fans'?

    So you dispute that there will be other fans out there that think like me?

    I speak for that section of fans.

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  55. I have been a liverpool season ticket holder for over 40 years i make 90% of home and away games.

    SOS what a load of S**T.  Shankley would be turning in his grave at the lack of support for the americans.  Yes theyhave pomised and not delivered on certain things, doesnt everyone.   Let us not forget that they are the reason the greatest striker in the world plies his trade at Anfield.

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  56. Your homepage states
    "<span>Listen-up SOS: The fans have spoken - YOU NEED TO CHANGE"</span>

    That statement implies that your poll represents [all] the fans. So on what basis do you think that you can make a statement on behalf of all the fans. Especially as 40+% of those polled disagreed with your statement.

    And the reason I ask is not about SOS. I am just picking up on the argument you present that SOS is speaking on behalf of the fan base. 

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  57. You are being slightly pedantic.  Nowhere do I explicity state 'I represent all fans', and I have never indicated/implied that I represent all fans.  In any event, I don't need to explain every tiny detail, do I?  That would be patronising.  When I say 'The fans have spoken', I am clearly referring to the fans who voted in the poll.  And since I am indirectly referring to the aforementioned poll (as evidenced by the fact the tag-line is DIRECTLY ABOVE TH POLL RESULTS) I see no need to explicity state it.  Furthermore, it's about brevity - I don't want to have 5 or 6 lines of description taking up space on the page.

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