2 Oct 2009

Philipp Degen: The farce continues (and why is the club refusing to clarify his injury status?)

Just when it looked like Philipp Degen might actually be injury free for once, something else has (inevitably) popped up to derail his progress. As a result, it seems that the Swiss defender may be back on the sidelines. Again.

Degen started the recent reserve game against Manchester City, but played just 45 minutes before having to be replaced because he was ‘feeling ill’

Ill?

So - Degen was okay to start the game, but in the space of 45 minutes he suddenly developed an illness that was so bad it meant he couldn’t continue the game?!

Does anyone really believe that?

Okay - it could be true that Degen was genuinely ill, but since the game, the club has released no information about the incident.

In an effort to try and clarify the situation, I contacted the LFC Press Office yesterday with some questions about the situation.

So far, there has been no response. Why? I’ve contacted them many times before about far more emotive issues, and I've always received a response. What is different this time? Is there something to hide here?

Could it be that Degen is actually injured or unfit again in some way and the ‘illness’ story is a fabrication?

If he IS injured again, the refusal to respond probably means that the club wants to insulate Rafa Benitez from any more criticism re the signing of the player, who surely has to go down as one of the the manager's worst ever buys.

Degen has been a complete disaster as a Liverpool player, and his persistent injury problems make a mockery of Benitez’s original assessment of the player, made when he was first signed:

"He is an offensive player with great energy and a winning mentality. His strength is going forward and I am confident he will be prove to be a quality addition to our squad. Sometimes you can find these players on the market. When you find a player like him who costs no money it means you can use money for improving other parts of the squad. He is a good signing, a player of potential, who can help us improve in the wide areas."

Great energy? Winning mentality? Quality addition to the squad? Good signing? Player of potential? Someone who can help ‘improve wide areas’?

What a joke.


65 comments:

  1. This obssession you have with blaming Benitez for everything really is unhealthy Jaimie, have you considered talking to someone about your issues?

    I have a friend who works in the mental health field and she could recommend a good counsellor.

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  2. Hi J

    I think that this is a very harsh criticisms of a player that has been very unlucky and has had no control over his injuries ....

    I have seen abit of him , from reserve level to international duty and i think if he can over come this injury problem he can be a good squad player.

    He has alot to offer and to criticise him is very unfair.

    He is an LFC player that has done nothing but try and over come his injuries, too perform for the club and the fans , every interview and appearance for LFC,on and off the field, has shown me that he is willing to do all he can for the this club ...

    and he deserves some repect.

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  3. How can you judge, he hasn't played. I take it Aquilani is rubbish too?

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  4. That would be great, thanks!

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  5. Wooly Back Scouser11:31 am, October 02, 2009

    Its people like you that make me sick! It aint Rafa's fault the guy got injured, why is it when something goes wrong there is always a witch hunt? There must always be some one to point the finger at? Real fans like myself will stick by team no matter what happens, who gets injured or whatever and never give out blame or criticism were its not needed!

    YNWA

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  6. so who do you want to blame ,, lets blame UTD and Ferguson as we very quick to do that

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  7. 'Real fans' like yourself?  I'd be very interested to hear what makes you a real fan.  Please tell me, so I can endevour to be just like you.

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  8. Hi Jaimie,

    You've said a few things, taken a few pops, but stopped short of actually saying what should be happening from here.  Should Rafa resign over this?  Should Degen get his contract paid off?  Should we cut Rafa's transfer budget back?  Should someone else be in charge of transfers?   You're leaving yourself open for me and Sparky to jump in and say, 'oh, you just hate Rafa, get a grip'.  Don't just have a go for the sake of having a go, I think you lose journalistic kudos if you do that.

    It's so so easy to take a pop at what's gone wrong, but the skill as a journalist will surely be in your analysis of how to put things right and then standing back and letting people decide if you're right or wrong.

    G

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  9. Rafa resign over it?  Be serious!

    And I completely disagree with your assertion that the job of a journalist is suggest ideas of how to put things right. 

    I do not subscribe that theory at all.  It's not for me to decide what should happen.  I'm raising the issue and offering the situation up for debate. 

    Anyway, i think my views are clear: Degen is a waste of space and Rafa made another bad signing.  i don't need to explicitly spell out that I think Degen needs to leave the club and Benitez needs to take more care uying players; this is implicit in the article.

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  10. as usual Jaime knows more than everyone else...can you provide facts and proof that he's a bad please? i'd love to see where your conclusion was drawn from considering he's been crocked for three years and before then was pretty unknown in switzerland...

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  11. it is Rafas fault he bought the player who had only played about 20% of Dortmunds games in two seasons when he signed him

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  12. Why are you wasting so much time on a random squad player. Does anyone really care if he is injured or ill. He barely gets near the first team anyway.
    PS He was signed on free transfer if I remember correctly, so 'buying' him isn't really correct.

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  13. Thanks for your reply Jaimie,

    You state some great points, but (in my very humble personal opinion), an article should be either a factual news article, or a opinion-based column. You're trying to do both, it just doesn't work and you make a rod for your own back.  You're half way between writing a news article and being a columnist.

    I appreciate your last paragraph, it's your opinion and to be honest I sorta agree, the only saving grace I can offer was the fact he didn't cost us a great deal in transfer fees.  Perhaps you could have finished the original article by saying that?

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  14. you reject the idea that a journalists job is not to suggest how to put it right??!! every week you dress up your feeble opinion as fact telling everyone what should have been done or what was done badly...so youre breaking your own rules...then again youre not a journalist your a manc hack !!

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  15. <span style=" ">"I’ve contacted them many times before about far more emotive issues, and I've always received a response. What is different this time?"</span>

    Ermm... perhaps they've actually started reading your (outrageously anti-Benitez) articles Jaimie?

    Isn't it funny how your negative articles have returned after ONE defeat. Not so vocal after FIVE wins on the bounce are we Jaimie.

    Tell me something. Do you have money on Rafa being sacked or something? Or did he run over your cat?

    I wish there was a way I could set Newsnow.com to ignore all of your articles.

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  16. Wooly Back Scouser11:59 am, October 02, 2009

    HAHAHA this is better than 606,keep it up boys!

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  17. In the seven years prior to joining Liverpool Degen played 166 league games and 43 internationals (U21 & full). Even without taking into account cup games that is 30 matches a season since the age of 18.

    For someone brought in as essentially a squad player that is a reasonable record I would say. Degen was brought in on a free transfer to procide cover for, and an alternative to, Alvaro Arbeloa. Had more moeny been available to Benitez then I doubt he would be a Liverpool player but Benitez was forced to cut his cloth accordingly so Degen came in.

    He was at the time we should remember the first choice right back for Switzerland. Benitez may not have the best record in picking full backs but to say "the refusal to respond probably means that the club wants to insulate Rafa Benitez from any more criticism" is frankly nonsensical.

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  18. 1. Its not Benitez' fault the guy has had an injury nightmare.
    2. He obviously has some potential going forward (had a reasonable game in the Carling Cup) and therefore
    3. Was worth taking a punt on seeing as he was brought in on a 'free' transfer.
    Even if he isn't going to be challenging Johnson regularly for the first team spot, if he got a few reserve games under his belt, and a run in the Carling Cup he could prove a useful squad player, or generate a couple of million intransfer funds come next summer. If that happens I thgink it would be a shrewd bit of business from Benitez personally. Especially considering the apparent lack of funds at the club.
    Give the criticism a rest Jamie....

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  19. Wooly Back Scouser12:15 pm, October 02, 2009

    Or maybe there nothing worng with him and your all talking rubbish about nothing lol!

    Mybe he was ill at the start of the game and tryed to play thru it but couldnt - Maybe the moon really is made of cheese, who cares - What has all this got to do with the price of fish!

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  20. I agree with sparky's //"the refusal to respond probably means that the club wants to insulate Rafa Benitez from any more criticism" is frankly nonsensical.//

    How about some other probabilities:
    - LFC finds liverpool-kop to be too small a fry hence is not obligated a reply
    - Degen is about to be sold in January, why jeopardize it
    - With so many farce being thrown at LFC by the media, why should LFC comply, moreover to an opinion-based-mostly-farce-churning blog-like webpage
    - The person who received the enquiry died
    - The person who received the enquiry is not a manc supporter
    - ..and the list go on and on and on...

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  21. You're right Graham - Degen didn't cost us anything to buy; However, what about salary, signing on fees etc.  he has cost the club hundreds of thousands of pounds for basically sitting on the bench.

    I take your point about the way articles should be presented, but we'll mjust have to agree to disagree. Lots of opinion-based posts contain fact and opinion together.  Besides, I don't hold myself out as someone who is relaying the factual news to people; I just write what I think.

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  22. -the person who received the enquiry was abducted by aliens

    - he person who received the enquiry suddenlyt went into a vegetative state and had to be hospitalised?

    You're right - ht elist does go on!

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  23. <span>Degen only played 10 games for Borussia Dortmund in the 2007-08 season, the majority of which he missed due to injury. Is this really a good basis for buying a player?
    </span>

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  24. Jammie your writing is up there with me 7 year old son, what you know about LFC you could write on the back of a stamp with a wax crayon!

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  25. He was a free transfer. He's also been very unlucky; injuring/breaking a metatarsal bone, which is a difficult injury to overcome. Here are examples of other players who have had metatarsal injuries and how long it has taken for them to recover.

    <div class="mva">
    <div class="bull">Michael Owen (2006): Fifth metatarsal - predicted 6-8 weeks returned 17 weeks later</div>
    <div class="bull">Wayne Rooney (2004): Fifth metatarsal - predicted 8 weeks returned 14 weeks later</div>
    <div class="bull">David Beckham (2002): Second metatarsal - predicted 6 weeks returned 7 weeks later</div>
    <div class="bull">Gary Neville (2002): Fifth metatarsal - predicted 6-8 weeks returned 21 weeks later</div>
    <div class="bull">Ashley Cole (2005): Fifth metatarsal - predicted 6-8 weeks returned 12 weeks later</div>
    <div class="bull">Scott Parker (2004): Second metatarsal - predicted 8 weeks returned 34 weeks later</div>
    <div class="bull">Danny Murphy (2002): Second metatarsal - predicted 6 weeks returned 21 weeks later</div>
    <div class="bull">Steven Gerrard (2004): Fifth metatarsal - predicted 6-8 weeks returned 10 weeks later</div>
    <div class="bull">Note how long Scott Parker was out.</div>
    <div class="bull">He also broke 2 ribs. A broken rib hurts when you breathe let alone anthing else. There's at least a 8 week recovery and in that time it is pretty much impossible to do any sort of training.</div>
    </div>


    Maybe he is ill. Maybe its another injury. But is it worth an a whole article? Its not like we spend millions on him. On paper he seemed like a decent addition - european experience with Basel and Dortmund, international experience with Switzerland. To be fair, I was fairly impressed by him in the Leeds game. Its difficult to tell how good he is defensively but going forward he was pretty good.

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  26. Then I guess you get my point. Why write on that one scenario of the club trying to insulate Benitez rather than the other probabilities?

    Show me a manager who did not make any 'mistakes' in buying 'a failure' or a crocked player, if Degen is one.

    Those statements by Benitez when Degen first arrived, would you rather have a statement like "We bought Degen because we did not have any funds and yes, he is not a very good player and will probably fail because he has not played for so long. It was the best I could do to have a cover at the right back and Degen is free so we bought him. But if I have the funds I would like to buy that johnson fella but I don't. Degen is not as good as him. He has this injury problem but I pray to God that my judgement is correct given the circumstances I am in at the moment. I hate the American owners, really!"?

    Who really knows what transpires behind the curtains? We make guesses, speculate, read between the lines but we have a choice what to make of it. Slagging Benitez as if he is the worse manager ever to grace LFC is not very nice, at least to me. It is not that he is above criticism, but getting criticised for player's injuries as if the fault in totally his. Come on...

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  27. I think the person who has received your enquiry is in hibernation, just like Degen. He's not injured, just sleeping until spring.

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  28. <p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span><span style=" color: #404040;"><span style="">“</span></span></span><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">He was a free transfer. He's also been very unlucky; injuring/breaking a metatarsal bone, which is a difficult injury to overcome. Here are examples of other players who have had metatarsal injuries and how long it has taken for them to recover.  
     
    Michael Owen (2006): Fifth metatarsal - predicted 6-8 weeks returned 17 weeks later  
    Wayne Rooney (2004): Fifth metatarsal - predicted 8 weeks returned 14 weeks
    David Beckham (2002): Second metatarsal - predicted 6 weeks returned 7 weeks
    Gary Neville (2002): Fifth metatarsal - predicted 6-8 weeks returned 21 weeks later  
    Ashley Cole (2005): Fifth metatarsal - predicted 6-8 weeks returned 12 weeks later  
    Scott Parker (2004): Second metatarsal - predicted 8 weeks returned 34 weeks later Danny Murphy (2002): Second metatarsal - predicted 6 weeks returned 21 weeks
    Steven Gerrard (2004): Fifth metatarsal - predicted 6-8 weeks returned 10 weeks
    <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span>
    <p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;"> </span>
    <p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">Note how long Scott Parker was out.  </span>
    <p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">
    He also broke 2 ribs. A broken rib hurts when you breathe let alone anything else. There's at least a 8 week recovery and in that time it is pretty much impossible to do any sort of training.  

    Maybe he is ill. Maybe its another injury. But is it worth an a whole article? Its not like we spend millions on him. On paper he seemed like a decent addition - european experience with Basel and Dortmund, international experience with Switzerland. To be fair, I was fairly impressed by him in the Leeds game. Its difficult to tell how good he is defensively but going forward he was pretty good.</span>

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  29. personally what i saw of him looked pretty solid. I liked what i saw. pity that he is "injured"/out of action. we got him on a free transfer.injuries happen. i recall reading here that rafa obtained him while he was at the time injured. obviously there are parallels with AA and injury purchase.Lets hope that is where it ends. I digress. The main point is that rafa should not have got rid of and/or let either finnan and arbeloa go so easilly. I cant remeber too many RB's i have enjoyed since markus babel. Glen Johnson thankfully built like a race horse.  However I do think that degens form looked quite good in the league cup so i was hoping for more of the same should we need back-up to johnson. I also hope that glen vindicate rafa's support when we at chelsea. it was written. 

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  30. Jaimie, terrible article, reads like a rant from a low quality message board. Go back to journalism school!

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  31. How many games did he play in the 2006-07 season Jaimie?

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  32. <span style=" ">Then what should rafa say when he sign degen? He is a player who get injured quite easily? Player of no potential? Someone who cant improve the squad? You couldnt be signing a player and saying how bad is he right?</span>

    Why don't you consult degen instead, and see what is the problem. It's is just an illness. What's wrong with that? Must degen come out and say that he is really sick or ask him to produce a medical certificate as a proof to show to the public that he is really really sick . Anyway it is just a reserve game.  

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  33. No  - rafa shouldn't have signed him in the first place.  There should be a policy of not signing injured players.

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  34. How is this relevant?

    Are you suggesting that a player's injury/fitness levels from 3 years are ago are more relevant thann 1 year ago?  Recent past is what matters, and this has to be correct because Degen has been injured ever since signing!

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  35. It's relevant Jaimie because if you were to take only one season as representative of a player's injury record then you could argue that pretty much any player is a crock. Take for example John Barnes, he played only 12 times for liverpool in the 1991/92 season yest in the preceeding season he played 35 times and in the subsequent 5 seasons he played a total of 162 league games.

    If we were to take that one season where a succession of injuries kept him out we would say he was a crock, yet he went on to be a first team regular for 5 more years.

    If you think statistics are important Jaimie then you can't simply dismiss those you don't agree with.

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  36. incidentally, how many games did van Nistelrooy play for PSV the season before Man Usigned him?

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  37. Then I guess all players are relieved that you are not a manager, but Rafa Benitez is. And I bet he has a better eye than all of us for players' potential, taking a gamble or two when his hands are tied (where funds are concerned) and all the information that he needs on a player before he signs him up

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  38. Of course your beloved Martin O'Neill would never sign an injured or sick note player would he?  Oh dear, he has.  Heskey and Downing for starters.

    I'm sure Rafa will be adding a crystal ball to his range of skills soon.

    And I am sure you are aware, Mascerano was 'ill' over the last week or so so maybe he caught that.  Norovirus can come on very quickly, Sami once had to go off ill.

    It's good to have conspiracy theories though :)

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  39. i admire you j, christ you take some stick! you always have a valid point ALWAYS and truth be told rafa could do with you in his ear. the rest of you guys remember j is on our side and its not like we're gold at the moment. keep up the exellent posts j cause you sure encourage robost debate.

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  40. Goo point about Van Nistelrooy. However, he was clearly a special player, so the gamble was worth it. And it paid off, did it not?

    Was Degen worth the gamble? Clearly not.  he was nothing to write home about it the first place; plaus, we had proimising young right backs coming through the youth set-up at the same time who could've done an equal, if not better, job than Degen

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  41. Jaimie, you ban people from sniping you. Please don't do it to posters to your site. I have been an avid reader for a while but it annoys me when you snipe at others yet censor those who have a go at you. BE FAIR!!!!!

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  42. Degen was a free transfer so you can't class him as benitez worst buy. Also, how the hell is benitez meant to predict if a player is going to get injuries. You're an idiot.

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  43. You're right - my mistake to refer to him as worst 'buy'.  It should be benitez's worst transfer.

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  44. How is that sniping, Billy?

    I only delete extreme posts, stuff like 'You're a c**t etc.

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  45. Signing injured players would have been cheaper compared to when they are fit and performing. Managers sometime would have to take gamble like this unless we can spend like man city. Of course there are time where gamble doesn't pay off. Hopefully Aquilani's gamble does pay off.

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  46. hehe..Come on Jaimie, even you can be cured..dare I say your persistance is on the same level as Degen's downtime..lol

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  47. um... thats nonsense! you deleted a reply of mine a few weeks ago and my post did not contain any rash words whatsoever... that is not fair!

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  48. nonsense ... this isnt debate, if u realised 90% of the comments are critisicms of JK & have nothing to do with Liverpool. And he is as much on our side as Gillet and Hicks. The good thing though is he doesnt have a say in the club.

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  49. Jamie, I'd say Rafa agrees with you, that Degen was his worst signing, but I do re-call reading that he was injured for the beginning of his last season with Dortmund, but just couldn't re-claim his spot when he was fit again. I do remember him playing for the Swiss against the Rep. of Ireland, and he was one of their better players.

    At the time of the signing, I thought nothing wrong with it - a gamble? Yes. But hindsight is 20:20. Who could have predicted his run of injuries?

    I would imagine - to Rafa's credit - that a pinch of salt is taken with everything that that scout now tells him.

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  50. yor talking bulltish kanwar, you delet all the time, pofusely.

    its a shame some one would nt do the same with the ip address associated with this site. 

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  51. phuk ewe ewe count.

    wyl this escaype deleetion

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  52. phuk orft ewe sheet

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  53. lol......clearly a special player.......lol........then clearly Kyut and Huntelaar were special players in the Ruud mold as well. Love how u keep mioving the goal sticks Jaimie. Keep it up. somehow the Barnes post missed u.

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  54. I just read that you don't delete posts. Are you lying JK? If Brendan made valid points then allow his post to be viewed. If the post is offensive why don't you edit it and print it as you claim above?

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  55. ive said this before and ill say it againt.  it says everything you need to know about his website if you look to the top left of he page to the 'label cloud' you will see out of the names inc i might rafa benitez steve gerrard et al, jaimie kanwars name is the biggest.

    come back tomorow and see if this post remains, yo know it wont

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  56. No valid points were made in the deleted post; It was just sniping. Brendan has made valid points elsewhere on other threads, hence the reason I don't really want to ban him.

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  57. Not moving the goalposts at all - if you're going to gamble on an injured player, it should only be done if the player is worth it, no?  Thus, you'd gamble on an injured Kaka, but you'd steer clear of an injured Robbie Savage.  Same principle with Degen and Van Nistelrooy

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  58. Clearly, you have zero knowledge of how label clouds work.

    The more posts under a particular label, the bigger the label.  And considering I have written the most posts on the site, my label will be the biggest. This is standard practice.  And you will see that all the site's writers have label tags, not just me. Labels are about easy categorisation and finding things quickly.

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  59. i really dont know why you always jump on jamie when he writes an article !!!! i really think his articles are interesting and he brings out a lot of facts actually....and for this article yes i agree with him...degen should never
    have been signed !!....look at the free transfers rafa has made....

    DEGEN,,PELLEGRINO [anyone remember him :) ?],,VORONIN
     to name a few....does any one of them really made an impact at liverpool ?? i think not !!  he should really be more acurate with his signings!
    lets face it....ONLY benitez makes these type of free transfers of the teams challanging for the BPL.....loook at other free transfers that top clubs make...BALLACK ??  OWEN ?? [yeah i think 4 a free he should have grabbed him !!]....if you take those 2 players for instance you know what i'm talking about ;)

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  60. So I guess Mach will always be rubish and not prove his worth as he virtually did not appear for West Ham!!
    To the original poster.
    You know little about potential if you do not think he has looked promising at times for reserves and full appearance.
    The mystery illness? well I hope the lad recovers quickly and the reason for absence and word is not because he is "seriously ill"
    Do you get sucess in the mirror with your ideas?

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  61. Yes, he ran over my cat.  It's not just the fact he did that, it was a hit and run; Benitez didn't have the basic human decency to stop after the accident, he just heartlessly drove off.  I had to scrape that cat off the road - it was a very traumatic experience.  

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  62.  more nonsense from this wum - sad

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  63. more nonsense from this wum. Hard luck today sunderland

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