George Gillett’s recent comments have caused quite a stir amongst Liverpool fans, with the media jumping on the bandwagon, gleefully trying to resurrect the ‘Rafa vs. the Owners’ spat. There is one thing, however, that I believe many fans are missing about this situation…
The basic crux of the (predictable) media response to the comments has been “Gillett blames Benitez for poor performance’ and “Gillett reignites public feud with Benitez”.
The fact is, however, that it was NOT Gillett who made the interview public.
The interview was published on the ‘Liverpool Way website’ and fed to the media that way.
As a contrast, this is completely different to the situation that occurred at the end of 2007, when Tom Hicks publicly criticised Rafa.
Basically, the Liverpool fan who conducted the interview chose to leak the story at a time when the club was in the doldrums and it would be easy to whip-up anti-owner resentment.
So – Liverpool fans are responsible for this mess, not George Gillett, and to suggest that Gillett has publicly attacked Rafa is completely wrong.
Is this how fans should be supporting the team?
This interview has caused a massive media uproar and whipped fans into a ridiculous frenzy...and for what? What has actually been achieved here? What has been discovered that we didn't know before?
Now don’t get me wrong – I do not condone Gillett’s comments. In the interview, he clearly lies (perhaps lies is too strong – misremembers is probably more accurate) about the who made the 60 day promise to have work started on the new stadium.
However, Gillett is absolutely right with the following comments:
“If it’s not getting better, it’s not Gillett and Hicks, it’s the manager, it’s the scouting. So make sure you balance out your analysis”.
Rafa has had plenty of money to spend during the reign of Hicks and Gillett. In many cases, he has wasted it/spent it unwisely. Did Hicks and Gillett tell him to spend £20m on Robbie Keane? £20m on Alberto Aquilani? £8m on Andrea Dossena? NO. Rafa made these decisions himself, and he has to live or die by them.
And why is it okay for Rafa to constantly moan publicly about not having enough money, yet the moment one of the owners tells the truth about the situation, they are lambasted beyond all proportion?
One of our writers, Alex Miller, wrote a superbly balanced article last week about the positive impact Hicks and Gillett have had/are having at the club. In the article, he also clearly acknowledges that the owners have made grave mistakes, but that is not the whole story.
In any event, as a Liverpool fan, I want nothing to do with the ‘interview’ that caused this commotion. It was extremely amateurish and unprofessional, which is why I have not addressed any of the points raised. Furthermore, it was deliberately leaked after two defeats in a manipulative bid to capitalize on fan-frustration, which I don’t believe is the right way to do things.
Also - given the delay between the interview and its publishing, how do we know that what was published is accurate? How do we know that things haven't been taken out/modified bu the interviewer?
And if I’m not mistaken, the ‘interviewer’ is a member of fans group ‘Spirit of Shankly’, who posted the following on their website after their unrelentingly biased ‘analysis’ of the interview:
YANK LIAR$ OUT
How ridiculously childish.
I personally don’t want to be represented by a group that believes xenophobic epithets are an acceptable way to protest.
I am all for working to have the owners removed, but only in a professional manner. Indeed, all fans should be calling for groups like SOS to drop this kind of approach and concentrate on doing things in a dignified manner.
Whilst SOS persists with such an immature approach, they will continue to have zero credibility.
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The basic crux of the (predictable) media response to the comments has been “Gillett blames Benitez for poor performance’ and “Gillett reignites public feud with Benitez”.
The fact is, however, that it was NOT Gillett who made the interview public.
The interview was published on the ‘Liverpool Way website’ and fed to the media that way.
As a contrast, this is completely different to the situation that occurred at the end of 2007, when Tom Hicks publicly criticised Rafa.
Basically, the Liverpool fan who conducted the interview chose to leak the story at a time when the club was in the doldrums and it would be easy to whip-up anti-owner resentment.
So – Liverpool fans are responsible for this mess, not George Gillett, and to suggest that Gillett has publicly attacked Rafa is completely wrong.
Is this how fans should be supporting the team?
This interview has caused a massive media uproar and whipped fans into a ridiculous frenzy...and for what? What has actually been achieved here? What has been discovered that we didn't know before?
Now don’t get me wrong – I do not condone Gillett’s comments. In the interview, he clearly lies (perhaps lies is too strong – misremembers is probably more accurate) about the who made the 60 day promise to have work started on the new stadium.
However, Gillett is absolutely right with the following comments:
“If it’s not getting better, it’s not Gillett and Hicks, it’s the manager, it’s the scouting. So make sure you balance out your analysis”.
Rafa has had plenty of money to spend during the reign of Hicks and Gillett. In many cases, he has wasted it/spent it unwisely. Did Hicks and Gillett tell him to spend £20m on Robbie Keane? £20m on Alberto Aquilani? £8m on Andrea Dossena? NO. Rafa made these decisions himself, and he has to live or die by them.
And why is it okay for Rafa to constantly moan publicly about not having enough money, yet the moment one of the owners tells the truth about the situation, they are lambasted beyond all proportion?
One of our writers, Alex Miller, wrote a superbly balanced article last week about the positive impact Hicks and Gillett have had/are having at the club. In the article, he also clearly acknowledges that the owners have made grave mistakes, but that is not the whole story.
In any event, as a Liverpool fan, I want nothing to do with the ‘interview’ that caused this commotion. It was extremely amateurish and unprofessional, which is why I have not addressed any of the points raised. Furthermore, it was deliberately leaked after two defeats in a manipulative bid to capitalize on fan-frustration, which I don’t believe is the right way to do things.
Also - given the delay between the interview and its publishing, how do we know that what was published is accurate? How do we know that things haven't been taken out/modified bu the interviewer?
And if I’m not mistaken, the ‘interviewer’ is a member of fans group ‘Spirit of Shankly’, who posted the following on their website after their unrelentingly biased ‘analysis’ of the interview:
YANK LIAR$ OUT
How ridiculously childish.
I personally don’t want to be represented by a group that believes xenophobic epithets are an acceptable way to protest.
I am all for working to have the owners removed, but only in a professional manner. Indeed, all fans should be calling for groups like SOS to drop this kind of approach and concentrate on doing things in a dignified manner.
Whilst SOS persists with such an immature approach, they will continue to have zero credibility.
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Well said. This situation is complex and a rush to any one simple solution is foolhardy. Above all we must retain our tradition for dignity and the 'Liverpool way' even if others would love us to run off squealing.
ReplyDeleteExactly. the way SOS go about it with their 'YANKS OUT' mantra is emarrassing.
ReplyDeleteHow do you go about removing the yanks in a professional way?
ReplyDeletewhile i agree that the leaking of this interview was not the responsibility of george gillet you have over looked something. in order for the liverpool way of keeping things in house to have been preserved george gillet might have thought it better not to attack as a form of defence. if he had conveyed these thoughts to rafa benitez and others within lfc than fair enough as long as the entire club puts on a united front and deals with issues internally there can be no complaints. as far as i could see the relationship with rafa benitez, the owners, the new commercial director and temp ceo was a decent working one with all parties insisting the same whenever pressed. i for one had warmed slightly to the two owners by their appointment of ian ayre and especially christian purslow and thought things were moving forward. hopefully this issue can be resolved before it does affect the team.
ReplyDeleteterrible article. started off by making a good point then i stopped reading once you start talking about the money rafa chose to spend on players in case you forgot it was rick parry who agreed all those fees other then the aqualani deal which we dont pay anything towards until he reachs a certain amount of games.
ReplyDeleteI dont know how you can say he didnt really lie about the stadium it was a huge ridiculous lie. he remembered the statement just didnt remember who said it?? come on lets not forget he also said that they put in 20-30 mill of their own money plus all the transfers recieved this summer are!!!! glen johnson aqualani and kyrikos did not cost the 50-60 million that gillett seems to be claiming. 30 for alonso 15 mill for keane we also sold leto and a few other young players and hes saying we spent another 20 mill on top of that.
I think you're arguably off on a few points...
ReplyDeleteOn the 'private' nature of the comments by George.
So it's fine for George to talk about behind the scenes business to fans then? Was it a confidential meeting? You youselve call it an interview. Who gives private interviews for fun? To me it's still a public slating of Rafa when he could've kept it shut. He didn't need to bring Rafa into it at all.
RE: finances
I've seen tons of articles that have dismissed the notion that they have spent as much as they claim. Why do you not wish to explore that? Instead, like George, you wish to beat Rafa up. That's fine. Just saying.
RE: wasting money
Are you sure it was Rafa that wanted Keane? You seem pretty sure about this despite the stories running to the contrary. And again you're questionning Rafa and saying he wasted £20m on Aquilani when (a) he didn't cost that much and more importantly (b) he hasn't kicked a bloody ball yet! How do you know it's a waste?
Thinly veiled digs at Rafa are fine, really they are... it doesn't bother me but it just shows your own bias more each day.
I don't think we've been too badly served by George and Tom in terms of getting failry big players in but in terms of finances I have no idea if they are good or not.
Liverpool fans are constantly on the attack with the owners, so it's a bit hypocritical to suggest that the owners cannot respond in the same way. The fact is, Liverpool fans have put this issue into the public domain; why couldn't the fan who did the interview approach Rafa and others at the club with the comments? That would;ve kept things ehind closed doors, would it not? Why post the interview publicly? Simple: the people behind this are onl interested in whipping up anti-owner anger as an apparent means of having them removed. Such an approach will never work, and it makes all Liverpool fans look stupid.
ReplyDeletePlease - are we still going on about this riduclous myth that Benitrez didn't want Keane? I've already debunked that myth here: --->
ReplyDeleteFor all the comments about the money Rafa apparently had spent , which some attribute to be more than mancs and chavs, have a look at this article:
ReplyDeletehttp://tomkinstimes.com/2009/10/the-cost-of-premiership-success/
Paul has done some great statistical analysis and the figures mentioned shows the truth for all. I for one, have always believed that we will be nowhere if Rafa wasn't here and the numbers shown in the article proves what a commendable job Rafa has done amidst the financial restrictions and impositions he's had.
What we knew before was that, with regards to transfers, Rafa has never been able to fight outright with MU, Chelsea, Real, and now Man City to get the top echelon stars. All the players that have come here were previously unknown (unlike Kaka, et al) and this includes Torres who many doubted if he will be able to prove himself in the Premiership. Rafa took the risk and he's been proven right. Arbeloa and Crouch are some of the examples whom the pundits were ranting about saying they were useless but they also developed tremendously under Rafa and both proved themselves and went on to play for the national sides before leaving (well these are just a couple of examples).
The point is, as Paul Tomkins has meticiulously pointed out, we should be hovering at the 5th to 7th places if we are going to talk about the costs and compare it to our league position. But tell me somebody, weren't we just off the pace by about 4 points from winning the league last season?
And this is also due to Rafael Benitez, the Liverpool manager!
This is the same Rafa who deserves much more than the utter rubbish treatment he receives from the media, former players, pundits and some of the fans and non-fans alike.
And if you have read the ridiculously biased unintelligent article by a nincompoop named Cascarino in The Times, you would know what I'm talking about.
You'll never walk alone.
You are a complete and utter knobhead.
ReplyDeleteAgain poor research with the writers in this site.
ReplyDelete20m wasted on Keane? Where did the 19m<span style=""><span style=""> we recouped go? (<span style="">£15m with potential add-ons taking the cost of the deal to £19m).<span style=""> </span></span></span></span>
And how can u say Aquilani is a waste of 20m when the lad hasn't kicked a ball. Ridiculous comments.
Alex Malone did the same thing in his piece.
Both of your points mean nothing if you dont have your facts write. LFC supporters are not stupid
Sort it out LiverpoolKop.
1. Drop the xenophobia/insults/childish 'Yanks Out' approach
ReplyDelete2. Focus only on the facts. Concentrate on compiling all the lies/inaccuracies spouted by G+H and refute them with irrefutable logic and fact.
3. When refuting statements G+H have made, drop the snide approach and just be neutral in tone.
4. Be fair - acknowledge the good things G+H have achieved.
These are obvious things - if SOS (or anyone) challenging G+H wants to be taken seriously outside of an SOS meeting, the whole approach needs to change. in short, remove the emotion from the situation and focus on the facts.
You bebunked nothing Jaimie. Such arrogance :D
ReplyDeleteYou have no idea whether he wanted Keane as his one big target or not. It could just as easily be argued that Rafa was doing good pr work there. Personally I think Keane was lower down the order than Barry but that's a gut feeling. I'm not claiming to debunk anything.
So where is this Keane fellow that Rafa was desperate for? Remember all those games he started? All those full games he completed? Where's Parry too? No... no sorry you found the truth already ;)
Anyway this is a deflection from the points your article made and from my criticism about you wishing to jump on Rafa again.
Nonsense. Please priovide evidence that 19m was recouped on Keane.
ReplyDeleteAs I've stated many times before, just because we recoup money doesn't change the fact that AT THE TIME, 20m was spent, money that could have gone on players who would actually fit-in and IMPROVE the squad.
And until Aquilani starts playing and positively contributing, it is a waste of money. What benefiut has the club got from Aquilani's signing so far? NONE. Thus, it is a waste of money.
The cash cold've been spent on a player who was fit from the start of the season, but Benitez chose otherwise. And look what's happened - it's only the beginning of october and league chances are already hanging by a thread.
As I said, if we'd have had someone to replace Alonso from the start, perhaps it wouldn't be this way.
Change the record. Endless manipulation of the figures does not cha nge the fact that Benitez has had lots of money to spend, and for the most part he has (recently) spent it unwisely.
ReplyDeletethis website is a enigma to me?, in fact i would go as so far to say i think it may be a unscrupulous scum fan, parading as a liverpool supporter, but now rather it seems like you yanks have got puppets to add credence to their drivel!.....THE MUPPET SHOW!......the yanks ARE NOT GOOD for liverpool football club, have proved they are LIARS with what they have stated, have put the club in MASSIVE DEBT, and we STILL cannot compete with the scum and the chavs for the best players. i dont care if george gillett didnt release the interview, the bottom line is they made pledges to rafa when he signed his new contract, and then reneighed on those promises. i also would urge anyone NOT TOO LISTEN THIS WEBSITE, as in my opinion THIS WEBSITE IS BIASED, ANTI LIVERPOOL! will the scum fan please stand up! it was a bit of a giggle while it lasted, but we get it now, you pretend to be a liverpool fan, but but try to stir a bit of controversy with your "honest journolism"....idiot!
ReplyDeleteyou debunked it in your own mind but not in mine or many others.
ReplyDeleteNot tactful to start all this up again however, Gillet is doing himself no favours by apparently slating Rafa. For me it shows a lack of understanding of the game - or at least a very black and white one.
ReplyDeleteWe have improved over the course of the seasons, and last time I checked we haven't been knocked out of anything yet. Other teams have improved too. When Rafa arrived he obviously had to close the gap at the top - he HAS done that. What is also interesting is the amount of cash that has been recouped in selling players - often players who he realised who were not up to the job (it happens to ALL managers).
We must also remember that Gillet was apparently the one who initiated Klinsmanngate - probably the most laughable aspect of their reign. To associate an ex player whose only experience was managing his country in a world cup without qualification is barmy.
Frustration also comes from the explicit way Gillet has been with Rafa, the so called 'spade in the ground-gate' and putting the club in debt etc etc.
I just hope they leave, but fear they won't as the see our club as a cash cow.
fact is rafa is to blame for the bad start this season, because he is the manager who picks the team.
ReplyDeletethe fact remains that to win the prem you have to buy it. Theses are the facts. if we are after a player and man u, chelski, arsenal and man city are after the same player, who is going to win the bidding war? who can offer the players the most money? It does not matter how well you scout players, if you havent got the cash to pay for them you are not going to get them.
all this talk about cash wasted, what needs to be looked is, are the players brought in better than what we had, to play the system the manager has chosen to play? in most cases the answer is yes.
Also, if we had no debt, and a bigger stadium we would be able to compete in the transfer market.
Most players we have bought are proven internationals who have played in the champions league. that said, there not the best, but we can not afford the best. how is this rafa's fault. he does not owen the club.
you say that gillett did not criticize benitez in public but he did try to make benitez the scape goat. jaimie you should remember that nobody hated hicks and gillett when they initially came to the club. they made promises, sold rosy dreams but did not try to convert it into reality. they promised a stadium - work has not started. they said club's income would not be used to pay off debts - another lie (money missing from this seasons transfer budget). one thing people must remember is even when americans took over the club was in a bad shape in terms of the squad. the academy system was almost non existent (as in no structure or proper system in place). so liverpool fc is still a work in progress and to make benitez the scape goat for poor results would be very myopic and simple thinking. gillett should not have said that, even in private in front of any fan. this is the 3rd time gillett has behaved this way (1st time jurgen klinsmann saga, 2nd time was earlier this year when liverpool were drawing many games - on one of his visits to anfield then he said manager was to blame and 3rd time now). let me ask you one thing. if gillett is so anti benitez why did he renew his contract?? go bring in another manager. i would like to see which manager can do better in the mess that is liverpool under hicks and gillett. you criticize his transfer spending. well i frankly dont know how much of a role he had in bringing keane to liverpool, i still have a feeling parry was responsible for that (parry was sacked later, robbie keane was sold and it was promised to benitez that he would get the proceeds from the sale. why would hicks and gillett promise that if rafa was responsible for bringing keane to liverpool in the 1st place? also benitez usually sticks to whomever he has signed and gives them time to perform. all this points to the possibility that it was parry who was more responsible for bringing keane to liverpool). regarding dossena - top class full backs are almost as valuable as wingers. 8 million is definately not sufficient to buy a top class FB. i believe rafa just had to make do because of budjet constraints. let me remind you that he wanted rafinha. plus liverpool does not believe in spending big on untested youngsters. rafa also wanted walcott, vidic, berbatov (back in 2005 or 2006), malouda, simao, anderson to name a few but never managed to land any of them because of spending contraints. so now tell me - is benitez and his scouting department really to blame?? yea i know though i have said all this ppl will still criticize benitez for zonal marking and persisting with torres-gerrard combination ( and both this have worked. torres and gerrard combo was even labelled as benitez masterclass when it worked well). he has made mistakes no doubt but in my opinion his main mistakes were 1) treating alonso the way he did and 2) not playing babel in a more central role up front. but i think liverpool are still lucky to have benitez. he could well end up having the last laugh in may 2010 after a successful season.
ReplyDeleteSo now it has become endless manipulation?
ReplyDeleteI thought you were supposes to back up your arguments with statistics, Mr Kanwar.
How do you back up your claim on that? The figures clearly shows Liverpool should be nowhere near the top of the league. Debunk that with stats, not your hypocrisy.
Ok fair enough I can see you point there but has this professional approach ever worked before? I can't think of any 'bad' owners removed by this approach.
ReplyDeleteI think the only way the yanks will go is to give them what they want i.e. money & lots of it but they want waaaay too much money & it scares off potential buyers!
Jaimie so the fact that our club's debt increased from 40 million to 250 million in 3 years by these owners is not a going concern? You are straying from the facts which clearly have being pointed out.
ReplyDeleteThis interview was done two weeks ago before the Hull game - the matter it was out two weeks ago doesn't mean "liverpool fans leaked this" when anyone who actually is aware of SOS would have known what Gillett has said already.
Back to the debt, even the financiers recommended that it was a going concern that the parent companies involved with Hicks and Gillett's Kop Holding company linked to the club couldn't manage this debt. What does that say for the future of the club. Also George has already lied about the spade in the ground comment, what does that show when it was actually beamed out live at the time of the takeover. Xenophobic or not our club(if you trully love Liverpool Football Club) are being taking for a ride by these owners.
Another point, you say about the money recouped on Keane. You have LFCHistory.net linked to your web site I would advise to check the facts out there about the money recouped for Keane. As you said you haven't seen it anywhere but you have the number 1 LFC stats site linked on your web site?? Explain for me please why you would come out with a statement like that.
Critical realism = knee jerk reactions and living cloud cookoo land when it comes to the results on the pitch and what is happening at our club.
50 years this December Bill Shankly became our manager being honest he would turn over in his grave today with what is going on at the top of the club. As he said the board are there to sign the cheques but the fact is our owners are interfering and self serving yanks who only have one thing in mind. Lining their pockets at the expense of our club. They wanted to increase the ticket prices this season by 8% while other clubs freezed prices.
Jaimie you seem like a sound chap but sometimes you come across as arrogant espeically with these debunking the myth series. Are you a Liverpool expert. Are you a qualified journalist. Are you a Tony Barrett. Not throwing in sly digs here but it needs to be said.
based on the balance of probabilities, and the AVAILABLE evidence, it is clear that Benitez wanted Keane. If it's not, please add your comment to that thread and explain why I have not debunked that myth.
ReplyDeleteAnd how have I jumped on Rafa here? I'm entitled to have the view that he has had enough money to spend, in the same way that you are entitled to the opposite view.
Let's not get into an argument about how I'm always criticising Rafa. if you want to have that argument, please do it on the general discussion thread, not here.
God this site is rubbish.
ReplyDeleteIf a bloke does an interview, it's impossible for it to be "leaked".
If he made comments on the record, whoever conducted the interview is pretty much free to do what they want with them.
The fact that these quotes hit the papers after 2 straight defeats is neither here nor there - they'd be disgraceful even if were on a winning run of 3 or 4 months.
I've already addressed the money spent issue on other threads. I'm not going to repeat myself here.
ReplyDeleteWhy are the Rafa-related comments 'disgraceful'?
ReplyDeleteHow is it any more 'disgraceful' than Rafa constantly moaning to the press about not having enough money to compete?
You are so ignorant about financial matters. A club that had approximately £40Mil debt and now has more than £200Mil is better off? Please leave comments about money matters to qualified individuals... like yours truly a Chartered Accuontant. Your point is made, you do not like Rafa, but please backup your arguments with facts not rubbish.
ReplyDeleteOf course i come across as arrogant - that's the way people who disagree with me like to paint me. It is 100% clear that everything I write is based on my opinion. I should've have to post a disclaimer on every post saying 'this is only an opinion'. The debunking myths series is exactly the same: my opinion. I'm not forcing people to agree; in fact, lots of people disagree! This is an opinion based site - I don't hold myself out as presenting absolutel facts, and just because I write it a forthright manner doesn't mean I am presenting what I write as fact.
ReplyDeleteFrom now on, after every sentence I'll put the following in brackets (this is just an opinion!)
it's just the way things are though - if I write something that people don't agree with I'm attacked and labelled arrogant etc.
I accept that though - it goes with the territory.
Again with the agressive responses. I'm not leading discussion, I'm responding to points you make. Yet I'm being told off for being off topic? lol How's about the other points about the interview?
ReplyDeleteIt's clear that you are attacking Rafa. You include deliberately high transfer figures (neither Keane nor Aquilani cost £20m, neither) and make ridiculous claims about waste before the lad has a chance to show what he can do. Why? To make Rafa look like a muppet, again. He doesn't need you to do that. He's doing it ok by himself. You keep making these rods for yourself. You can't claim someone is off topic when they are rsponding to what you say.
Stop twisting my words (a typical tactic of my detractors); Where did I say that the club 'was better off' with Hicks and Gillett?! I have only ever stated that the owners have also done some good things for the club. That is very far from suggesting that the club is better off with them.
ReplyDeletePlease stop lying, and if you're going to paraphrase, please do it accurately.
rafa has made a judgement call, he thought aquilani was the best player that we could afford to replace Alonso, he was injured which may have put a lot of other clubs off. benitez thinks are medical staff and coaches can get him fit and keep him fit. People call it a gamble, I call it having faith in your staff.
ReplyDeletetime will tell if it was another master stroke or another mistake.
The owners must learn that the fans like benitez a lot more than they like the owners, so to attack benitez, in an interview is at best stupid. wether it was to go public or not. Even if in the prem we finish tenth, the fans will turn on rafa, but the owners will be the first to feel the fans anger. The fact is they lied, we all know they lied. It seems to be the way of the world at the moment, no one lies, its called spin, miss understanding or something. Im from the old school of thinking, if some one tells you they are going to do something and they dont, they lie. plain and simple.
Aggressive responses? Where? how? What a joke. Stop confusing firmness with aggression. We're all adults here, aren't we? or do we all need to include a :) after every sentence?! if you can't hack the cut and thrust of forthright debate then I suggest you go to a different site :)
ReplyDeleteYou're entitled to your view about me allegedly attacking rafa, but I am merely telling what I see as the truth.
And re Aquilani - until the club sees some bnefit from his signing, it is money that has not achieved anything, thus it as a wasted.
How has the outlay on the player had an impact on the furst couple of months of the season? it hasn't.
It's ludicrous to accuse Liverpool fans of xenophobia as the owners were given the warmest of welcomes when they arrived. It was only after they failed to live up to any of their promises people started to turn against them.
ReplyDeleteAnd your mantra that Benitez has had plenty to spend is also questionable at best. You should take a look of the money he has recouped as well. The net amount spent is not really that much for a club with high ambitions. There have been many players bought and sold but one simple reason is that Rafa has time and again been forced to take his pick out of the bargain bin. Another reason is that he had to build his squad from scratch. You cannot seriously say that the likes of Diouf, Diao, Traore, Biscan or even Kewell, Cisse or Spud Murphy (bless him!) were good enough.
And when you say that money on Aquilani is wasted until he does something is extremely stupid. If he scores four goals on his debut you'll probably be complaining that we've paid £5m per goal. And the truth (released by Roma) is that we have not paid £20m for Aquilani. And he has a contract for five years, not five weeks.
interesting, you seem to attack lfc fans for not keeping this quiet, attack rafa benitez when he speaks his mind yet you defend without hesitation the owners...is this site linked to them? its a valid question. also i'm not saying the fans in question are without liability but it must be shared between all parties involved. george gillet speaks of this business yet he undermined rafa benitez when the relationship appeared to be working, people in business simply do not do that, not just an lfc thing its an accepted business principal, can you not see that? if he wanted to defend his record he should have without deflection, why not point to the new sponsorship deal and plans for the future? have you forgotten the courting of klinsmann? the debt burden of the club? the stadium revisions? that it has been rafa benitez that has maintained a healthy financial income from the football side of things by qualifying for the champions league consistently? have you not commented on the skewed figures that george gillet used? that we finished second last year? fans are rightly concerned by the owners actions and you dismiss them as non fans...ironic considering you constantly attack the managers decisions and decide what you think is best.
ReplyDeleteOkay theyre not perfect ie Spade in the ground within 60 days, but seriously 128 million in the last 18 months on top of what we have made, can anyone justify this? Remember on top of what we have made, 30 mill alonso and 3 for Arbeloa covers the aquilani and greek lad with 10 mill to spare so this year net spend would be 8 mill for the rest of the johnson fee, which supposedly was covered by the crouch fee we never recieved? I just can't see where they have put money in towards the figure of 128 mill? We sold Keane for 12 rising to 16 and never spent the full 20 mill on keane anyhow coz that was based on success so more like 17 mill, so we should recoup most of that money. we also signed dossena for 7, cavilieri for 4 and ngog for undisclosed but cant be much, going back 18 months we signed masch for 18 apart from these, which adds upto around 30 mill. Last year we sold risse for 4.5 and carson for 3.5, which is 8 mill, so 22 mill roughly over the 18 months ive obviously not included youngsters we have braught in but no significantly high fees there. Please someone help me and justify gillets claim??
ReplyDeleteI also don't like the fact the debt is on the club and we are making money to service that debt. If they buy something surely its not right to let it pay for itself.
debunk means to prove and you havent proven anything. only the people involved can prove that and they have all stayed silent on the subject.
ReplyDeleteSorry forgot to add that the club cant pay for itself because liverpool holdings reported a loss of 43 mill, is that taken into account when they say they have spent 128 mill on top of what they have maid in the last 18 months, my guess is probably.
ReplyDeleteSorry for the rant but Hicks also stated that the credit crunch was the reason for the delay on the stadium, come on the credit crunch didn't exist when they baught the club.
ReplyDeleteno jaimie, you may say now that you post purely opinion - how can a supposed debunk be opinion btw? - but you dont, you state opinion as fact and as someone who has studied english its is blindingly obvious and this also leads to the accusations of arrogance. fans have a different opinion to you and you also must accept their opinions instead of dismissing them as non fans...is yank an epithet? no
ReplyDelete1. You are just trying to make the people believe, what Gillett says. And that is that Rafa has enough money to spend... THATS DEFINITELY NOT TRUE!!!
ReplyDeleteCan you tell me where the 16m £ from the sale of Robbie Keane have gone?
2. How can you already say that the transfer of Aquilani is a failure?
He will prove you wrong, because in the end he will be seen as a bargain!!!
3. The article from Alex Malone was just laughable!!! I commentated already on it and made my point clear...
list the constant moaning please...and it is disgraceful to undermine someone publicly in an attempt to deflect attention from yourself...thats basic manners jaimie as well as good business sense
ReplyDelete<span style="">It's ludicrous to accuse Liverpool fans of xenophobia as the owners were given the warmest of welcomes when they arrived. It was only after they failed to live up to any of their promises people started to turn against them.
ReplyDeleteAnd your mantra that Benitez has had plenty to spend is also questionable at best. You should take a look of the money he has recouped as well. The net amount spent is not really that much for a club with high ambitions. There have been many players bought and sold but one simple reason is that Rafa has time and again been forced to take his pick out of the bargain bin. Another reason is that he had to build his squad from scratch. You cannot seriously say that the likes of Diouf, Diao, Traore, Biscan or even Kewell, Cisse or Spud Murphy (bless him!) were good enough.
And when you say that money on Aquilani is wasted until he does something is extremely stupid. If he scores four goals on his debut you'll probably be complaining that we've paid £5m per goal. And the truth (released by Roma) is that we have not paid £20m for Aquilani. And he has a contract for five years, not five weeks. </span>
balance of probabilities...that wouldnt stand up in court
ReplyDeleteWhy do you and everyone always focus so much on net spend?! it is irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteBefore we even consider money recouped, the fact is Benitez has spent 192m. How he spent this money is what we should be looking at.
Just because he made money back doesn't change the fact that lots of the 192m was wasted:
20m on Keane
11m on Babel
8m on Dossena
6.3m on Morientes
2m on Josemi
3.5 m on Gonzalez
1m on Carson + Barragan
2m on Palletta
6.7m on Pennant
1.5m on Leto
6m on Craig Bellamy
Total - Approx 68m
Just imagine if that money had been spent more wisely.
Just because a manager rectifies a mistake after the fact doesn't mean the oiriginal mistake is negated.
People seem to deliberately ignore the following: what might have been had the money been spent wisely; how might Liverpool's pursuit of trophies have been enhanced if the right players had been bought.
Take Summer 2008 for example. What might have been if the Keane 20m had been spent on a right-winger/link man? Could such a purchase have helped us gain the extra 5 points that would've meant the title? Possibly.
The net spend argument is just a way to muddy the waters and distract people from the real issue, i.e. how Benitez actually spent the money he had.
Yes, he's made some good purchases, but he has bought a lot of duff players as well, wasting tens of millions in the process.
And pon the subject of xenophobia - are you suggesting that it's okay for fans to adopt that approach because, at the start, H+G were welcomed?!
ReplyDeletePlease. The SOS 'Yanks out' approach is that of the lowest common denominaor; it makes a laughing stock of Liverpool fans and will never achieve anything.
acquilani cost 20m euro - fact - check your sources people...and this is from a roma fan...the fee may increase over the years for appearances etc...yours...
ReplyDeleteWhy do you and everyone always focus so much on net spend?! it is irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteBefore we even consider money recouped, the fact is Benitez has spent 192m. How he spent this money is what we should be looking at.
Just because he made money back doesn't change the fact that lots of the 192m was wasted:
20m on Keane
11m on Babel
8m on Dossena
6.3m on Morientes
2m on Josemi
3.5 m on Gonzalez
1m on Carson + Barragan
2m on Palletta
6.7m on Pennant
1.5m on Leto
6m on Craig Bellamy
Total - Approx 68m
Just imagine if that money had been spent more wisely.
Just because a manager rectifies a mistake after the fact doesn't mean the oiriginal mistake is negated.
People seem to deliberately ignore the following: what might have been had the money been spent wisely; how might Liverpool's pursuit of trophies have been enhanced if the right players had been bought.
Take Summer 2008 for example. What might have been if the Keane 20m had been spent on a right-winger/link man? Could such a purchase have helped us gain the extra 5 points that would've meant the title? Possibly.
The net spend argument is just a way to muddy the waters and distract people from the real issue, i.e. how Benitez actually spent the money he had.
Yes, he's made some good purchases, but he has bought a lot of duff players as well, wasting tens of millions in the process.
Aquilani may prove to be a success (I hope so) but the fact is Liverpool have derived no benefit from the cash outlay for the first 2 months of the season. it is reasonable to suggest that had Benitez bought soeone who was FIT from day 1, we would not have lost 4 games out of 11.
ReplyDeleteAnd on the subject of xenophobia - are you suggesting that it's okay for fans to adopt that approach because, at the start, H+G were welcomed?!
ReplyDeletePlease. The SOS 'Yanks out' approach is that of the lowest common denominaor; it makes a laughing stock of Liverpool fans and will never achieve anything.
I'll tell you that if you tell me how it's possible for an on-the-record interview to be leaked. A reasonable point I think seeing as though you saw the need to put it in bold.
ReplyDeleteyou simply do not have the stature to have detractors you self indulgent pompous fool
ReplyDeletemore should've would've from the man who know everything...you should meet my wife
ReplyDeleteHi, I am of the opinion that the manager is responcible for the team tactics on match day not the owners. We have a good enough players to win the league if we play the right way.
ReplyDeleteWhen the points sistem was changed to 3 point for a win and 1 for a draw this was to incuredge a more attacking game,which was the Liverpool way.
Now under Rafa we play with two holding midfield players, we even deffend corners with all 11 men in our own box. This Liverpool team is the most defencivly orentated side I have seen in my 47 years.
We play two many players regualy out of position and we go into games
with a setup designed to be dificult to beat rather than going out to win.
Incidentally, the interview went up on TLW on Saturday evening.
ReplyDeleteWe played Chelsea on Sunday.
So, it was "leaked" to the public at large after 1 "consecutive" defeat, not 2.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article6676753.ece
ReplyDeletehttp://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,2483_5482851,00.html
http://tvnz.co.nz/content/2837159
http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2009/08/14/1441042/rafa-benitez-liverpools-title-push-wont-be-undermined-by
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Rafa-Benitez-urges-Liverpool-fans-to-trust-him-article37767.html
And there are many more examples.
You're one to talk about accuracy - the interview went up on The Liverpool Way at 5.48pm on Saturday, yet you claim the author had some sinister plot to cause a stir after we'd suffered two consecutive defeats.
ReplyDeleteYour article is flawed by the fact that the entire interview was available after the hull city game, not the Chelsea match. There was little if any reaction before the loss at Chelsea and the papers picking up the story. All this is paper spun sensationalism that you're buying into to and stirring the pot.
ReplyDeleteAt no point did Gillette say it was off record.
I agree that the inclusion of their nationality is uncalled for though.
jaimie what is wrong with gillett and hicks being criticized by fans? firstly i dont think it is in any way xenophobic. secondly as i clearly elaborated in my first reply and i repeat: fans were not against the yanks at the start. in fact they were commended for their conduct and the way they respected liverpool as a historical sporting institution rather than an enterprise (which is what glazers called Manu). but they did not deliver on 2 counts - 1) no new stadium - they did not say they would build a new stadium subject to economic conditions when they took over. they took over in 2007. the recession happened last year. why dint they do anything for about 10 months in between. they should have tied up funds and started work on the stadium. only a blueprint was prepared and a miniscule amount of actual ground work happened. 2) why are they using the clubs money to pay off their personal loans. they took loans to buy the club but they are using the clubs income to pay it off. WHY???? answer me jaimie.
ReplyDeletealso jaimie i am surprised that you have nothing to say about the rest of the stuff i wrote. why did gillett and hicks renew rafa's contract in march when they detest him so much. and you criticise fans for having leaked the story. in my opinion fans constitute public. if you tell them something i dont think they are entitled to keep it a secret. especially when gillett is being such a hypocite and so fickle. one minute he praises rafa and they next minute he criticises him. why not teach gillett one more thing about the LFC way - stand by your team and manager. i dont remember any manager being critised so much by the owners. houllier did much worse than rafa. his signings were more ridiculous. i don remember him being criticised by the owners.
Stating opinion as fact? According to who, you?! That is a very subjective thing, and you cannot make a blanket generlisation like that. it's all about individual interpretation. To those who have a fair outlook on things, it is obvious that this site is about opinion. To those who want to denigrate this site, then it si 'stating opinion as fact' 'arrogance' and blah blah blah.
ReplyDeleteThe interview was initially between two people. As soon as it's made public to others, things change. Besides, the timing of the publishing is a more important issue here. If the interview was carried out after the Hull game, why not publish it then? Why wait till two defeats have passed?
ReplyDeleteAnd why have Liverpool not derived from the cash outlay for the first 2 months of the season?
ReplyDeleteBecause he had not enough money! Thanks for your argument!
Had Rafa bought someone, who was fit, he would have paid about 30m-40m £ for someone of Aquilanis class and could not have bought Johnson or could not have handed new contracts to key players!
Yes, you're right. I apologise for getting that wrong. However. it doesn't change that fact that Gillett conducted a priavet interview - he did not say any of this in public.
ReplyDeleteLook guys you are all missing the point here!
ReplyDeleteFirstly Gillett has said theyve pumped £128 into Liverpool, how much have they took out to fianance loans and expenses?
Secondly player transfer. When Rafa identifies players he wants he hasnt got enough money to buy these players, look at Alves, Siamoa, Silva, Villa to name a few, then he has to find cheaper options and gets 2nd or 3rd choice players, whereas Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, even Spurs get their number 1 targets. Thats what Rafa means by lack of money! Even Sunderland and Stoke have spent more this year!!
Thirdly look at the team now, all apart from Gerrard and Carragher are Rafa signing's how can people say he's failed in the transfer marker with Reina, Sktrel, Agger, Mascherano, Benayoun, Torres etc, all quality players!
Come on true reds, get behind the team and cheer us on to some vital victories over the next month!!!
The lies about the new stadium being built is another issue. This is where the loss of revenue from corporate events takes it toll. With a new stadium and extra income will result in the first choice players being signed, and then we'll go from strength to strength, and hopefully that league title will be back home!!!
What a load of crap, how can it be a waste if he recouped the money and spent it on someone else. 2007 we sold Cisse for 8 bellamy for 7.5 mark gonzales 4.2 sinama pongolle 2.7 stephen warnock 1.5, which equals around 26 mill. Then we signed players for 42 inc torres benayoun and babel to name a few so thats 16 mill net spend this is no more than what David Moores spent each season, when they first came i remember an interview on sky sports and they had loads of notes on them laughing because they were saying they were going to get liverpool back to the top for me they're not doing anything that wasn't already happening before them. to many broken promises. The person responsible for leaking this interview was probably that peed off with that comment blaming benitez again probably released it so all liverpool fans know what he thinks. What a joke the pair are!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAlso, how do we know that the transcript is accurate?
ReplyDeleteGiven the delay from the time the interview took place to the time it was published, how do we know that nothing was taken out/modified by the interviewer/SOS?
What a load of crap, I was focussing on net spend because i thought we were discussing the whole issue about the interview that was leaked claiming there high investment. We are not discussing Benitez failings or successes on transfers, net spend is the level of investment the owners have put in.
ReplyDeleteHow can it be a waste if he recouped the money and spent it on someone else. 2007 we sold Cisse for 8 bellamy for 7.5 mark gonzales 4.2 sinama pongolle 2.7 stephen warnock 1.5, which equals around 26 mill. Then we signed players for 42 inc torres benayoun and babel to name a few so thats 16 mill net spend this is no more than what David Moores spent each season, when they first came i remember an interview on sky sports and they had loads of notes on them laughing because they were saying they were going to get liverpool back to the top for me they're not doing anything that wasn't already happening before them. to many broken promises. The person responsible for leaking this interview was probably that peed off with that comment blaming benitez again probably released it so all liverpool fans know what he thinks. What a joke the pair are!!!!!
Maybe not but atleast they will know what the majority of liverpool fans think of them. So your stating that liverpool fans are a laughing stock, what a joke you are too. I'm not saying its right but everyone is entitled to an opinion and how they display that is each to their own. You on the otherhand slate people when they disagree with you
ReplyDeleteI agree & would argue that some of the articles posted on this website are embarassing to Liverpool fans. I actually try & avoid websites like this but it's a bit difficult when you see some the dramatic head-lines on News Now. Some of these wrtiers are clearly from the Talk Sport school of writing!
ReplyDeleteThe banner on the website "critical realisim" is laughable.
The majority of Liverpool fans are not daft. Yes, Rafa get's it wrong sometimes but which manager doesn't? The team have started poorly & there have been some strange tactical decisions & selections, as well as probably staying loyal to a few too many players, (when they should have been dropped). But let's not forget though, had we won on Sun we would have been a point off the top. It's a big if, but surely it's a bit early to be writing us off.
I'm gutted with the way we've started, as we all are, especially after the form we showed at the end of last season. Losing Alonso hasn't helped, but our form can't be down to one player leaving can it?
The reality is our squad is simply not good enough & no matter what people say about Rafa's spending, the numbers which the Yanks claim to have been spent over the summer do NOT stack up. The other point is that other teams are spending way more than us & the top two are adding to quality that has already been there for years. We haven't had that luxury & will struggle to keep up.
With regards the commercial side, yes the yanks have made massive improvements, but this wouldn't have been difficult. Everyone knew Liverpool weren't making the most of our "brand" & clealry they could see the potential. Not all changes have been great (liket the PTS scheme) but the reality is that the Yanks are in it for the money & have no love of Liverpool. The sad fact is, that once we sold our soul, we'll never get it back. Sometimes it's bettter the devil know, but whatever happens in the next few years, unless they or someone else, starts investing on the pitch we'll fall behind.
I sometimes wonder with regards any of these supporter groups, that if we channelled our energies into getting behind the team a bit more, (especially at Anfield against the lesser teams), this would have a lot more positive effect than just slating. We're meant to be on the same side - and no this doesn't mean people can't voice opinions - it's just how it's done. I thought with Kenny coming back & some of the changes made over the summer, meant we would ALL be pulling in the same direction. Just like thinking that we'll move into a new stadium with the yanks, this is only wishful thinking though!
No - I'm not attacking fans for 'not keeping this quiet'; I'm merely pointing ou that Gillett is not the one who made this public, which is the way it is being presented i.e. 'Gillett in public attack on Rafa'.
ReplyDeleteAnd I do not defend 'without hesitation' the owners. I am defending one aspect of this situation. And if you look back at the articles on this site, there ahev been planty of times where I have criticised the owners. I have also praise them on occasion; it's called being unbiased and fair. Examples HERE --->>>
We made profit in the case of Leto, Carson, Gonzales, Bellamy, etc. !!!
ReplyDeleteDo your research honestly!!!
Didn't realize that a successful/non-successful transfer is decided within the first 2 months. Who is to say that a "healthy" whomever player u suggest instead of Aquilani (Cana I think u suggested) would have made any difference? That we would never know. LFC is 6pts off the top in the most wide open race the EPL has ever seen. While it not ideal, Mr. Chicken Little - the sky is falling, its not as bad as u make it seem.
ReplyDeletePoint is when the going gets tough u run behind this "my opinion" shield yet when writing the articles u throw out words like "fact" and "stats don't lie" etc. just because u have an opinion doesn't mean u r always right and it doesn't mean that, provided pertinent info by posters, u can't adjust ur thinking. Too many times in these articles posters bring very salient, cogent points to the table that u ignore bcuz they disprove ur point.
Point is Gillette should have never said what he said even if he was on good terms with the fans. On the record or off its virtually in the public domain. Secondly, he should never throw out the $128M figure over 18 months when we all know that its inaccurate. Given their track record of inaccuracies and broken promises he should have known better.
You're embarrassing yourself badly here - as has been said several times in the comments now, it went up on TLW on Saturday evening. We didn't lose to Chelsea for a whole other day.
ReplyDeleteKeep tweaking your article as people point out the inaccuracies though, by all means. As it's been posted on the Rattle already, it'll be fun to compare your final version to the original.
There's nothing wrong with fans criticising the owners; that's not the issue. It's the manner in which groups like SOS are approaching the criticism that is the problem. Going in the a 'Yanks Out' approach is counter-productive and will achieve nothing. What has it achieved so far? NOTHING. All it has done is make Liverpool fans look like yobs.
ReplyDeleteI do not disagree that the owners have not delivered on their promises - they clearly haven't; but it is much more complex than that. There are reasons behind the failure to meet certain promises. Some of the reasons are nonsense and should be criticised; others are valid, and shold be understood.
You go on about the Liverpool Way, but that appolies equally to everyone connected with the club. not just the owners. benitez himself has had public spats with the owners in the past (initiated by him); he has argued with Ferguson in public; criticised his players in public many times. How does this fit in with the Liverpool way?
The interview was done before the Hull game and the information was posted on the 28th of September by the SOS not TLW
ReplyDeletehttp://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/Direct-Action-from-Saturday.html
So it was made public long before the papers got wind of it which indicates to me and what I firmly believe is a anti-rafa and anti-liverpool campaign being stirred up in the media again.
The likes of which you are involved in Jaimie with your site here, you are much to blame as them.
If we had to prove in court whether Benitez wanted Robbie Keane, my argument would triumph over arguements stating that benitez DIDN'T want Keane. Courts deal in available, proveable evidence, not supposition. Based on Rafa's own comments about this issue, it is clear he wanted Keane. Arguing otherwise is just pigheaded.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you can argue otherwise, let's debte the issue on the Keane thread.
They have a lot of detractors Jaimie. Tell us all what they have done for us if you have the evidence to support your theory.
ReplyDelete<span style="font-weight: bold; color: #990000;">It's no wonder Liverpool-Kop</span> is now highest ranked, non-forum-based, independent LFC site on the net as you deliberately piss people off.
ReplyDeleteOf course you have to look at the net spending. Suggesting that buying Leto for £1.5m and selling him for £3m is a waste of money is plain stupid. Rafa also made a profit on Carson and Bellamy probably even Gonzales. Palletta was swapped for Insua who has been a revelation and will fit into the home-grown quota. Rafa has made mistakes but which manager hasn't?
The fact is that this year Rafa's operated with a negative trasfer budget i.e. he has brought in more money than he has spent. That's hardly the way to build on the near perfect Prem campaign we had last year.
A pattern's emerging here - people point out things blatantly wrong with your article, you reply to their comment with a smoke-and-mirrors attempt to change the subject.
ReplyDeleteAnd you're one to talk about taking out and modifying things, mate - you've changed at least two sections already following comments people have made.
The Guardian footnote their articles to point out changes being made. God only knows how many footnotes you'd end up with on each of your articles here if you did that. Talk about pandering.
What? That doesn't make sense.
ReplyDeleteIf Benitez had spent the money on someone who was fit from the start of the season then Liverpool would've had an extra quality player for the last 2 months. Is it not possible that extra player could've had some kind of impact?
Your argument about the only players availalable being worth 140m is patently not supportable. For example, Liverpool could've bought Marseille captain Llorik Cana for 5m! He went to Sunderland, who - incidentall - beat Man United at OLD TRAFFORD last week. Cana has been superb for Sunderland, and could've been just as good for Liverpool FROM THE START of the season.
'Take Summer 2008 for example. What might have been if the Keane 20m had been spent on a right-winger/link man? Could such a purchase have helped us gain the extra 5 points that would've meant the title? Possibly.'
ReplyDeleteKeane helped chip in for those points in the absense of torres so we may have needed more than 5 points to win the league, also your now talking here in ifs and buts. Kuyt who played on the right had a great season scoring and creating. We were the only prem team to have two players into double figures weren't we with Kuyt playing on the right. Christ if i thought like you, if only we baught Messi and Ronaldo when they were 10, we would have been champions for the last 5 years running. You are digging a hole, just admit defeat
Rossi - my net spend response was in reply to another post, not yours. As I said in my reply though, just because money is recouped later doesn't negate the initial mistake. Such a business model is unsustainable and amateur. Do we want a situation where a manager is spending 20m every season on players who don't contribute, or do we want the manager to spend the money wisely in the first place?
ReplyDeleteHe willingly spoke on the record to a representative of SOS - this has been made clear by the interviewer, and Gillett hasn't disputed this or indeed any part of the interview.
ReplyDeleteYeah the interviewer/sos took out the part where Gillet called Jamie Kenwar a tool
ReplyDeletehttp://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/Direct-Action-from-Saturday.html
ReplyDeleteIt was published 2 days after Hull - Monday the 28th September as I alluded to earlier in a comment to yourself Jaimie
I'll make it easy for you - please provide 3 examples of where I 'slate people' for disagreeing with me.
ReplyDeleteI do no such thing. I debate with them - there is a big difference.
Regardless of how polite or dignified, protesting the LFC ownership on blogs and fan sites doesn't accomplish much (as entertaining as it may be for most).
ReplyDeleteProtesting at the stadium, chanting, etc will add more value. International reds cannot unfortunately so its up to the guys over there...
Heh
ReplyDeleteSloppiness on my part I should have said 'dismissive' or 'passive aggressive'. I have a thick skin and you don't get up my nose at all. I think some find your dismissive attitude a little grating (someone mentions figures you dismiss it, yet use innacurrate figures of your own in the same article etc).
Your still way ott to call the money on aquilani a waste until he has a chance to do something. It's unproven not a waste.
Heh
ReplyDeleteSloppiness on my part I should have said 'dismissive' or 'passive aggressive'. I have a thick skin and you don't get up my nose at all. I think some find your dismissive attitude a little grating (someone mentions figures you dismiss it, yet use innacurrate figures of your own in the same article etc).
You're still way ott to call the money on aquilani a waste until he has a chance to do something. It's unproven not a waste.
Two questions:
ReplyDeleteDo you find the term yank offensive? It is at least debatable whether it is or isn't. You probably should ask your mates George and Tom.
Do people really want them gone because they are not English? I think not.
Keane left in January. Just imagine if we spent 20m on a player who:
ReplyDeletea) Fitted in to our system
b) made a Torres-like impact over a hole season.
We could conceivably ended up with at least one trophy.
Obviously, if you have a player contributing regulalry for the team over a season, it is more beneficial than having someone who is always dumped on the bench/subbed (28 times out of 33 appearances) and leaves half-way through the season.
Sidetracked my links to the SOS mentioning this interview on the 28th September I see and the fact you haven't answered what have the yanks done for us. Your silence speaks a lot of volumes in both regards Jaimie.
ReplyDeleteAs for calling the SOS embarassing, when was the last game you went to see Liverpool at Anfield?
Alan - that link does not lead to the transcript or discussion of the interview, which was actually published on the 3rd October: http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/84031-dougie-doins-audience-george-gillett-jnr.html
ReplyDeleteFair point but again, my original point what i was getting at was they said they have invested 128 million on top of what the club has made itself, this is the comment i wanted justified, i just cant see it. Every manager in the world makes transfer mistakes benitez is no different but i don't think there are any signings he has made where we have lost a great deal of money eg Diouf under houllier baught for 11 sold for next to nothing. Crouch Bellamy etc made a profit lost a few on keane nothing really significant. + nobody knows who will be a success or failure look at wenger probably the best or has the best track record but still baught Reyes which was deemed a failure, Fergie with veron. I just think compared to other top teams we have never been able to compete, when the yanks came in, it was supposedly going to change but i havn't seen it really, okay we have baught more 15+ mill players but we have also sold to cover the costs and ended up with a similar net spend to previous years.
ReplyDeleteI haven't side-tracked anything. For a list of positive things the owners have done for Liverpool:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/10/revealed-how-hicks-and-gillett-saved.html
And please don't try the 'but how many games do you go to' routine. It is pathetic, and the typicl response of xenophones like yourself who believe that the only trye Liverpool fans are those who go to games.
I don't have to justify mysel to you. I could, but I won't. I know how many games I go to, and that is good enough for me.
Furthermore, the majority of Liverpool fans are unable to go to games anyway because of a variety of things such as location/cost/difficulty of obtaining tickets.
And even IF everyone wanted to go, it's impossible because the ground can only hold a set number of people.
That argument is so incredibley lame it is unbelievable. Totally predictable though.
I was wrong, got a bit hot headed coz of the liverpool fans being a laughing stock.
ReplyDeleteAt the same time though i think you have a benitez hate campaign going and i dont think the comments about the yanks being a good thing helps. They havn't really done anything significant, part from getting Christian Purslow in as CE. Hicks and Gillet didn't get the Standard Chartered deal. No Stadium, roughly same net spend as we were discussing earlier each season. Anyhting else you can think of??
http://www.irishkop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=239102&postcount=440
ReplyDeleteIt was even posted on the site i regularly post on but it doesn't quell the fact why did no one pick up on this on the 28th of September - with the SOS confirming a meeting would be held including yourself and the media?
Audio evidence will only confirm what this minutes of the meeting shows.
Of course an extra player could have made an impact but not a player for 5m £. I can just remember the critics when Rafa bought players in the 5-10m range, so he had to buy someone better than Alonso... Can you name a player better than Xabi, who is worth less than 20m £?
ReplyDeleteCana is not bad, but nowhere near the class of Aquilani!!! And you will never get player of this class for 5m...
I thought the score between Sunderland and the Mancs last week was 2-2. So who has won at OT???
You said someone leaked it from the "website" to the media? A website is just another form of media. Once something appears on a website, it is public and can be picked up and attributed. GG is a naive in the extreme if he thought his comments would not be published and picked up elsewhere. You described it as an "interview between two people". Was it a job interview? Plonker!
ReplyDeletea) Fitted in to our system - thats why i think people still believe this was a Parry deal, although i do believe he was thinking if torres out Keane could play up top and if Gerrard was out he could play in the whole + the fact at tottenham he played wide right a fair few times.
ReplyDeleteb) made a Torres-like impact over a hole season. - How many players in world football could make this kind of contribution?? Torres according to most is one of the best strikers in the world if not THE best. To expect such high standards from anyone else is near impossible.
Also another question you could ask is, if we hadn't sold Keane because personally i thought it was unnessasary could have we have finished the season with those extra 5 points?? albeit he was substitued 28 out of 33, doesn't mean he contributed nothing in those 33 appearences.
ReplyDeleteI note your spelling gets a lot worse when you're upset Jaimie.
ReplyDeleteJust out of interest though, how many games do you go to? I'm not saying it gives more or less credence to your articles, but I think it's a pertinent question to ask given your self-appointed status as a voice worth hearing on matters to do with Liverpool FC.
it's not a case of whether I find it offensive; it's a disrespectful tag designed to belittled the owners. it's playground stuff, not the approach of a (supposedly) serious organisation.
ReplyDeleteWhen i say Torres-like impact, I don't mean scoring shedloads of goals - I mean someone who makes a splash straight away and makes a positive contribution to the team's success, however that may be.
ReplyDeleteHow is it predictable? I asked a genuine question because if you have being too Anfield this season you will see the feeling among the majority towards the owners. Xenophobic me, if I am fair enough. It's easy to say things behind the mask of a keyboard but its another thing as the saying goes "action speak louder than words" the fact that members of the SOS are standing up to the owners is what all fans should be doing. As you can see from nickname I am not from the UK mainland so the cost etc...argument is bullshit. If you get up off your arse to do something you will do it.
ReplyDeleteAs for tickets etc...only when the gloryhunters come out the tickets are hard to get as with the second half of last season. I have found it personally to get tickets very easy now in each of the last few seasons before Christmas very handy.
There is a difference between fans and supporters. I always considered that if you go along to games to support your team, you are a supporter, if you like the team, but a TV follower,you are a fan of them.
I would like to make a point about this article aswel, sorry but the title says how Gilet hicks saved liverpool from mediocrity can i add we havn't won anything since they came, two previous seasons under the mediocrity we won FA and champs league, with poorer squads than we have now.
ReplyDeleteUpset? No. I'm just trying to repsond to as many comments as possible so I type quickly, which inevitably leads to mistakes/missing out letters.
ReplyDeleteI do not have any self-appointed status at all. I do not hold myself out as 'voice worth hearing on matters to do with LFC' - I have a website and I tell it like I see it. It is other people who apply the labels.
People do not have to come here and read the articles, and if they didn't it would make no difference to me - I would still write about LFC! i don't do this for validation - how could I when many of the responses I received disagree with me!
And re going to games - I go to as many as I can get tickets for. That is all anyone can do, is it not?
So I guess that all those fans in Asia/USA/Australia etc are not real supporters by virture of the fact they can't attend games?! Are you listening to yourself?!
ReplyDeleteWithout the worldwide support, Liverpool FC would wither and die.
And with the utter shambles that is the LFC ticket office, it is not as eas as you suggest to get tickets. Besides, there are only a finite number of tickets available anyway.
And I don't need to go to Anfield to hear fans chanting 'Yanks out'.
Love the debates you bring up Jamie to be honest although many disagree and on this point i think rightly, you do look at things in a different light and bring up some interesting posts, but a question i have is when you have wrote something and you read all the comments do you sometimes change the way you feel about something? i.e if someone makes a really good point, you sometimes might think i didn't think of that before kind of thing?
ReplyDeleteI must admit i do admit that its not all doom and gloom and i accept that benitez makes mistakes but i do feel Benitez is honest enough to hold his hands up, he has sold off the bad buys except Dossena this year but he did make an attempt to sell him. Possibly the reason for alonso's great form was due to the Barry saga. I just feel the yanks won't hold there hands up about the broken promises and blame everyone but themsleves. If they came out and said sorry we have messed up with the stadium, we are trying but at the min with the economic climate its not viable then i think they would get alot more respect.
Are you trying to put words in my mouth here or what. I didn't mention anything with regards to worldwide supporters/fans - I gave you my analogy - that does not mean I would disregard any Liverpool fan/supporter as it's people's own choice in what way they support the club. I am well aware that the club needs worldwide fans/supporters I am of them sure as I am what is described probably like yourself an OOT.
ReplyDeleteAgree the ticket office is a shambles for some espeically over the phones and online - I have being lucky more than most. But if you try your hardest you will always get a ticket from somewhere if you are apart of LFC community of fans/supporters who help out each other.
Then don't go to Anfield Yanks out and do something constructive by voicing you opinions not from a keyboard much like RAOTL and TLW do.
Heh
ReplyDeleteSloppiness on my part I should have said 'passive aggressive' or 'dismissive'.
Which you are.
'Stop confusing', 'don't talk about that in here' 'what a joke' 'nonsense' 'please'.
You really have a quite nasty knee-jerk defensive streak in you when someone points out how silly you are and how innacurate and biased the points you make are - then, bizzarely, you accuse them of not wanting to argue properly.
So many assumptions, so little actual understanding.
I think some find your dismissive attitude a little grating (someone mentions figures you dismiss it, yet use innacurrate figures of your own in the same article etc).
You're still way ott to call the money on aquilani a waste until he has a chance to do something. It's unproven not a waste.
Your dismissal of comments regarding the public nature of Gillett's 'interview' are absolutely hilarious.
As for all your 'evidence' in court spiel - jeez: on that basis Santa is real. My dad said so.
However, Gillett is absolutely right with the following comments:
ReplyDelete<span style="font-style: italic;">“If it’s not getting better, it’s not Gillett and Hicks, it’s the manager, it’s the scouting. So make sure you balance out your analysis”.</span>
Rafa has had <span><span style="background-position: right -1650px;"> </span><span style="color: #940f04;">plenty of money to spend during the reign of Hicks and Gillett</span></span>. In many cases, he has wasted it/spent it unwisely.
<span style="color: #940f04;">In whar way has he wasted it exactly? Oh yeah on Torres, Reina, Kuyt, Benayoun, Bellamy, Crouch, Alonso, Garcia, Skrtel, Macherano. The less successful signings, pennant, gonzalez etc. are due to the fact that Rafa doesn't have the money to splash out so is forced to find a cheaper option. Tottenham, Man City, Man United and Chelsea have all spent more that Liverpool in the last 5 years - that is undeniable fact Jamie. The team who spends most wins most, that is also fact Jamie. Anything we achieve over 5th place in the league is in fact an over - achievement.</span>
<span style="color: #940f04;">Please answer this Jamie...Do you think we are better off with Rafa or with Houllier? Do you remember the squad Benitez was presented with when he arrived in 2004? Players like Biscan, Traore, Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou, Le Tallec?</span>
<span style="color: #940f04;">I wish people would open their eyes and see how Rafa has completely transformed this team into title contenders, with a little more luck last season (eg. stoke at home perfectly good goal early on ruled out incorrectly) We would have won the league for God's sake!</span>
<span style="color: #940f04;">The phrase true fan is bandied about quite a lot but to me being a true fan is getting behind the team and it's manager crucially. In fact it's not just my opinion Jamie, It's "The Liverpool Way". </span>
<span style="color: #940f04;">I've just watched a programme on the late Bobby Wilcox, Liverpool's no. 1 fan. You could really learn a lot from him Jamie.</span>
Absolutely, Rossi. That is one of the reasons I set this site up in the first place - I love to read the views of fellow fans, and i love debate the issues. It just so happens though that - rightly or wrongly - I have very different views to most fans (it seems), which causes conflict.
ReplyDeleteEvery day on here I read enlightened comments written by others, and I take everything on board. People shouldn't think though that just because i don't agree, doesn't mean I don't think opposing views have merit.
good lad look forward to reading more in the future Hasta la bye bye
ReplyDeleteSteven - I do not dispute that Rafa has made good buys, and your list is spot on. However, I do not think you are being truthful with yourself when it comes to the money Rafa has wasted. And when I say wasted, I mean money that was not spent wisely AT THE TIME. Money recouped is irrelevant because it doesn't take into account the loss of benefit Liverpool suffered as a result of not buying effective players AT THE TIME.
ReplyDeleteExamples: Keane - 20m. If we'd spent it better, perhaps we cold've had 1-2 players who contributed to the cause for a whole season.
Dossena - 8m. For what? he's wasting away on the bench. We may make some money back on him but what all the time he's been sitting on the bench not contributing? if we'd bought a player who WAS contributing, that player could be making a difference to the team RIGHT NOW.
Bellamy - what exactly did he contribute (apart from attacking Riise with a golf club?!) - he left after one season. We got money back on him but for that seaon, he made no difference.
And the same thinking can be applied to some other flops Benitez has bought.
And no, I don't think we're better off with Houllier than Rafa. Having said that, this season has the distinct feeling of Houllier about it: irrational stubborness; failing to play aces in their places; not getting the best out of players; playing square pegs in round holes; generally underachieving on the pitch.
And Rafa has bought just as many duds as Houllier: Josemi, Pellegrino, Kromkamp, Zenden etc.
Everyone supports the team in their own way - you have your approach, I have mine.
The bottom line is, Rafa got what he wanted: complete control over transfers. has anything improved? We spent 17m on a right back and 20m on an injured midfielder. After 8 premiership games we've lost 3. This is the reality.
Alan - you stated:
ReplyDeleteThere is a difference between fans and supporters. I always considered that if you go along to games to support your team, you are a supporter, if you like the team, but a TV follower,you are a fan of them.
The majority of fans follow the team on the TV because they have no other choice. That doesn't make them any less of a supporter. In fact, with the amounf of merchandise overseas fans buy, they collectively probably contribute more bucks to the club that those who go to games. Considering the 10s of millions of overseason fans vs the comparatively minor number of fans who go to games, this is a distinct possibility.
And I am doing something constructive - I am presenting a different view for fans to consider. I don't just jump on the 'Yanks out' bandwagon or follow the crowd; what use would tha serve?
Even with such an emotive issue as getting the owners out, there needs to be different perspectives, not just one giant brainwashing session.
From where I'm standing, groups like SOS have no real credibility. They are not professional enough and resort too often to childish tactics. Until that improves, the owners are going nowhere.
COWARDS! why did you not print the unedited version of my post? IT PROVES WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID IS TRUE!
ReplyDelete'The bottom line is, Rafa got what he wanted: complete control over transfers. has anything improved? We spent 17m on a right back and 20m on an injured midfielder. After 8 premiership games we've lost 3. This is the reality.'
ReplyDeleteTo that comment i think we would all agree Johnson has been a good buy and secondly listen to rafa when he says we bought aquilani with a view over 5 years not 5 weeks.
And no, I don't think we're better off with Houllier than Rafa. Having said that, this season has the distinct feeling of Houllier about it: irrational stubborness; failing to play aces in their places; not getting the best out of players; playing square pegs in round holes; generally underachieving on the pitch.
Are we really underachieving after 8 games, the only reason people are so hung up on losing 3 is because of the high standards Rafa set last year. Wheres the stubborness (Zonal Marking?) last season up until xmas i heard we had only conceded 2 goals from set pieces, okay this season we have been poor but to blame his system of zonal marking is wide of the mark when each week i see other teams conceding goals from set pieces and man to man is never blamed. Personally remembering the days of Houllier we used to score and defend, under benitez i think we have far more control over games and play better football.
+ what did bellamy contribute, he scored the winner against barcelona at the Camp Nou, which meant we got past barce to nock them out of the competition, we all know what happened after that dont we
We've spent 17M on a right back that has begun to earn his transfer - Johnson has played well and contributed goals to the cause, exactly what he was brought in to do. Do you disagree with that? Aquilani has not played yet so u can't classify whether his transfer has been boom or bust. As for the "could have used that money elsewhere" argument its a waste of time. You don't now if bringing in a healthy player (Cana like u said) would have been successful or not. U could only assume so and make that JUDGEMENT call based on his performances elsewhere and how U feel he would fit into the team. U never know for sure do u.
ReplyDeleteAs for the transfers Rafa has "wasted" money on......my question to u is this - if we wasted $$ 1yr on a player and sold him the next yr for close to his original price where does that sale $$ go? Into the transfer budget or into the club kitty. That is y 1 yr's failure could be the next yr's success. Recouping $$/selling players for profit impact transfer budgets from clubs like Chelsea down to Hull. you could try to discount net-spend as much as u want but the fact is that its a key component to transfer budgets for all clubs. Do u disagree?
I don't think looking at the net spend distracts us from the real issues. In fact I think it actually gives us a better picture of the recent transfer policies. I think we can all agree that we do not have as much money to spend as Chelsea, Man Utd and now Man City. Now look at the players you have mentioned and only Keane is what you would call a big money signing at £20m. Everyone else, apart from Babel is less than £10m. Over the last 5 years or so £10m doesn't buy you much. The price of a player usually tells you how good they are - so when Man Utd buy Rooney and Berbatov or Chelsea buy Drogba and Essien for £20m plus you know you're getting a very good players. We don't have the funds to do that. Our record transfer is Torres. Man Utd have three players in the team now that cost more than him: Berbatov, Rooney, Ferdinand.
ReplyDeleteSo when you don't have that sort of money to spend, each player you buy is a bit of gamble. If they were proven quality players then they wouldn't be less than £10m. And there lies out problem. Not that Rafa has wasted money but that the players he has the funds to buy are a gamble. Some will work out ok some won't.
You'll argue that the money "wasted" on the Dossena, Bellamy etc could all have been accumulated and spent on one player who was better. But you can't do that as its a squad game and you need a decent squad and a decent squad size to compete.
You'll also say that Keane was money wasted. Yes it probably was but so was the £27m spent on Veron, the £30m spent on Shevchenko, £21m on SWP. The point being that even when you do spend a lot of money it doesn't always work.
The net spend also matters because it shows how by doing a bit of wheeling and dealing he has managed to buy better players. It could be said that buying Bellamy and selling him a year later at profit was money towards Torres. When Sissoko was sold at a profit, the money possibly went towards paying for Mascherano. Selling Crouch has meant that we were able to get Johnson(in effect we wrote off Crouch's transfer fee in procuring Johnson).
If you look at the list of players that he has bought and sold it doesn't read well. But are we a better team than 5 years ago? Are we more likely to compete in the league and CL? Yes.
Ok the Aquilani issue first. Alonso decided to leave (neither here nor there now but I completely believe we would have won the league this season if he had stayed) So Rafa says to himself ok I have 20 mil to spend who can I buy that could possibly fill this void? The fact is there is no player who could fill the void, Alonso is a one off, that's why Real paid so much for him (16m profit for Rafa, btw. actually strike that... not for Rafa, for the owners) Aquilani is not Alonso but can be just as effective. The fact he was injured when we bought him means we probably got him for 10m less or so (again financial constrictions). Just because he misses the first few months of the season that does not mean he is not worth buying. That is an incredibly short term view. As a manager Rafa cannot afford to buy players for short term value, he obviously has to look at the big picture. Imagine if Torres had an injury and we decided not to buy him, how much worse off would we be now?
ReplyDeleteI know we have lost 3 games out of 8 Jamie but one of those was away to Chelsea. Teams do not normally win there. Can I also mention the fact that last season ManU had the same amount of points after 8 games as we do now! Aquilani will surely make us stronger in the 2nd half of the season when it really hots up (squeeky bum time as whiskey nose would say)
On Benitez v Houllier flops - there is a major difference. Of the duds you mention only Josemi cost a fee of 2m. The rest were free/swap. Of the Houllier duds I mentioned, just 3 of them Biscan 5.5m, Diouf 10m, Diao 5m - combined cost 20.5m. When Rafa has money to spend he gets it right 99% of the time.
I don't want anyone to get me wrong I'm not a sunshiner who supports the team/manager no matter what, I was very critical of Houllier, however I believe in what Rafa is trying to achieve.
Rafa is a born manager who is 100% dedicated to Liverpool. Frankly our club with the current owners does not deserve a manager of his pedigree. He could be in Spain right now managing all the fantastic players Real Madrid have signed. But no, he chooses to stay with us despite the aggrievation, lack of funds, media nonsense etc..
We should all be grateful to this this guy at the helm of our club.
I agree with the last poster--and Rossi, I don't think telling Jamie Kanwar that he makes some good points will achieve anything. The fact is that he usually rushes in blindly to make his negative points (will he deny that, overall, his perspective is negative?) After that he stubbornly clings to wrong headed views and his responses become shorter and shorter: usually sprinkled with arrogant epithets like "nonsense" "rubbish" etc. The fact is he has always disliked Rafa and takes every opportunity to denigrate him. He will say that he has said some good things about Rafa too, but factually, such points are vastly in the minority--and if he does say something good, it's usually a case of damning with faint praise. Go back a few years and his diatribes against Rafa were much more ferocious. I guess he's mellowed a little because even he can see sometimes that RaFA is doing a good job under tough circumstances.
ReplyDeleteFinally, it's clear that Gillette's interview with SOS was in no way "private". As a businessman Gillette--who seems to dislike Rafa almost as much as Jamie--would have realised that nothing in the public domain is "private".
Thanks Rossi for making the point about Bellamy. Jamie has a funny way of judging transfers. I classed Bellamy as a success because he came in scored some goals, made some goals (the bust up with Riise seemed to help us in Barcelona!) helped us reach the champions league final and was then sold at a profit. Therefore how can he be judged as anything but a success?
ReplyDeleteJaimie, great article, but a bit of a slur on Rafa to dig up the 'wasting moey' theme. this is a favourite of shallow minded critics and can be levelled at evry single manager in the world.
ReplyDeleteA managers success in the market is not measured on the players who didn't make, neither should it be measured on the players who did. rather, it should be measured on the ratio of good to bad and the overall theme of the signings. i.e. does the manager hang on to his signings out of pride even when they are clearly not working, or are they replaced quickly so as to not unsettle the squad.
Rafa has made some mistakes in the market, but generally he has bought well and recovered quickly when mistakes have been made. In some circumstances a lack of interest in a player stops us seling as quickly as we would like (Pennant, Dossena etc).
Mostly, though, Rafa has bought well and replaced players with others who are better.
He doesn't have the luxury of adding one or two quality players each summer as established teams can (Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal) which means he has to take many more risks on more players. I do believe we are getting near to that point, with a great spine to the team and the academy stocked for the future.
I agree with you that SOS are not representative of the fans and are more of an embarrassment to the club. They do nothing but undermine the manager, players, fans and make us all look like idiots.
The current Gillett story, as far as I'm concerned, is a complete hoax. I don't believe any of it took place in the slightest (even privately) and has been 'released' to the press by an anonymous member of SOS purely to heap more pressure on one of the owners. Especially true as the interview was supposed to have taken place before the Hull match, has no transcript on SOS's site and has no named source. the timing of the release during the international break is also significant.
Time for us all to get back to supporting the team, the manager and, dare I say it, the owners so we can get back to the top.
Jamie, you really are clueless mate. You cite the amount of money Rafa has spent, as if he had it all in one go. If you had given Rafa the money all at once, he would not need to wheel and deal, and pick up stopgaps like Kromkamp. You are making an absolute buffoon of yourself with the nonsense you state. When you next go the match, say in 2012, sit down with some educated fans, and try and win a debate with the arguments you hold here. They are absolutely ridiculous. You know nothing about business, football, Liverpool FC and the concept of pragmatism, which Rafa excels in, because he has to.
ReplyDeletehAPPY_RED U WERE DOING WELL UNTIL U SAID SUPPORT THE MANAGER......JAIMIE IS NOT CAPABLE OF THAT
ReplyDeleteYou never know - maybe one day Jaimie will actually give Rafa a bit of credit. I won't hold my breath, though!
ReplyDeleteif this had gone to court the truth re the barry/keanbe situation would have been clarified as all parties would be compelled to tell the facts as they know them...so a burden of probabilities would yield to the actual facts
ReplyDelete<pre>I think an important point you're missing is that SOS is not just about
ReplyDeletematch going, local Liverpool supporters, but in fact is a
country/world-wide union. We have many people across the country who are
part of the union, and we have members from outside the UK too. My
American fiancée, born and raised in Alabama and now living in Phoenix,
Arizona, has recently become a member. She understands that when we says
Yanks, we're not tarnishing an entire nation, but it's a quick,
effective method of identifying Hicks and Gillet.
When we're chanting and marching on the streets, should we be politically correct and say.
"What do we want?" "Tom Hicks and George Gillett to leave our club"
"When do we want it?" "In the near future or if at all possible NOW!"
The term Yank, or Yankee, can be seen as derogatory, but also playful or
a referential colloquial term (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee). Yet
to compare it to Chink, which can never be seen in a playful light, is
completely ridiculous. To think that an entire group is xenophobic for
labeling two people "Yanks" is rather silly. This is not berating the
entire population of the United States. This is stating that there are
two Americans who are acting in a despicable manner, and we need to let
them know they are not wanted.
You're quick to label the union for being xenophobic about the usage of
"Yank," yet be careful who you're tarnishing. If I'm so xenophobic as
you believe me to be, why am I marrying a "Yank"? If the union is so
xenophobic, then why do we have members worldwide?
Kind Regards,
A non-match going Scouser</pre>
I think an important point you're missing is that SOS is not just about
ReplyDeletematch going, local Liverpool supporters, but in fact is a
country/world-wide union. We have many people across the country who are part of the union, and we have members from outside the UK too. My
American fiancée, born and raised in Alabama and now living in Phoenix,
Arizona, has recently become a member. She understands that when we says Yanks, we're not tarnishing an entire nation, but it's a quick,
effective method of identifying Hicks and Gillet. When we're chanting
and marching on the streets, should we be politically correct and say.
"What do we want?" "Tom Hicks and George Gillett to leave our club"
"When do we want it?" "In the near future or if at all possible NOW!"
The term Yank, or Yankee, can be seen as derogatory, but also playful or
a referential colloquial term (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee). Yet
to compare it to Chink, which can never be seen in a playful light, is
completely ridiculous. To think that an entire group is xenophobic for
labeling two people "Yanks" is rather silly. This is not berating the
entire population of the United States. This is stating that there are
two Americans who are acting in a despicable manner, and we need to let
them know they are not wanted.
You're quick to label the union for being xenophobic about the usage of
"Yank," yet be careful who you're tarnishing. If I'm so xenophobic as
you believe me to be, why am I marrying a "Yank"? If the union is so
xenophobic, then why do we have members worldwide?
I would like to congratulate you on this website, you've obviously done
well to bring in the readers with your sensationalistic opinionated
pieces. I look forward to hearing you on TalkSport soon.
Kind Regards,
A non-match going Scouser
This article is on the money, If I was the owner of LFC i would have strangled Rafa myself, We all sit there and point fingers, these lads put up alot of their own money up for a club with a poor manager. In five years all of the British talant dried up, so all the kids we had at 16 are now 21 and all the 19 yr old are now 25. Where are they all, so did Houillier leave us with enough shit! I think Roy is a brave man too take this role.
ReplyDeleteDont forget that most of the people who are fans 80% have a morgage and a credit card half most proberbly cant afford the payments, whats new . once the UK could not afford to build the suez canal it had to ask Getty as a backer. So all grow up and shut up. Do you think Henry has a bottomless pit of cash like the rest. We need to copy the gunners model - whoopps they just been bought by a wealthy russian. So if you want to moan march on number 10 and get the FA booted out as these wankers are in Murdocks pocket and we are all watching our sky and reading our paper! regulation is what we need.
And honest men like Shanks and bob. not wankers like Fergie and Rafa