20 Oct 2009

BLIND FAITH: A rebuttal of ThisIsAnfield.com's "Why Rafa Could Quit" article

This post is a direct rebuttal to the spurious blind-faith and misrepresentation of the facts displayed in the 'Why Rafa Could Quit' article, posted on ThisIsAnfield yesterday.

Since the article was published, I've had people:

1. Emailing me telling me to read it and respond/slagging me off for not posting stuff along the same lines.

2. Posting comments on this site telling me I'm 'not a real fan' and that the article represents 'what a real fans should be thinking'

3. Slagging me off in the TIA discussion thread.

As a fan who represents a different POV, I feel compelled to address certain points from the article, which I believe is a complete misrepresentation of the reality of the situation.

The author is, of course, entitled to his view, and the article is well-written, compelling and persuasive. However, the article suggests that anyone who does not blindly believe the arguments being put forward is not a real fan.

There is always more than one view though, and I submit that blind faith - or glossing over the reality in a misguided display of apparent support - is far more damaging that actually telling the truth.

Excerpts from the article are in bold:

After a lifetime living and working in Spain, after guiding Valencia to the most successful period in their history with a first title in 31 years followed up by a La Liga and UEFA Cup double, you choose to leave your home country behind to come to England and manage Liverpool.

Chose to leave? More like walked out on Valencia because he couldn't get his own way. Sound familiar? At the time, Benitez stated:

"I want to see it as positive that the club has tried to keep me on, but after the events of this season which have undermined my morale I have decided to reconsider my future at the club".

Events this season that have 'undermined his morale'? i.e he didn't get his own way. Benitez is stubborn and autocratic; if he doesn't get *everything he wants* without question, he is not happy. Liverpool has found this out many times.

Valencia president Jaime Orti had this to say about Benitez's departure:

"Valencia not only did everything possible to ensure Raga Benitez stayed on for the remaining year of his contract but also tried to get him to extend his deal with the club."


When Benitez (almost inevitably) walks out on Liverpool, I doubt the author of the article will be saying he 'chose' to go to a new club. It will more likely be 'Rafa was forced out by the owners/not backed financially' or some other untrue cliché.

You make that decision despite other, more lucrative offers lying on the table back in June 2004 – from Spurs, Inter Milan and Besiktas.


How does the author know that the offers were more lucrative? Did he have access to the employment contracts each club offered Benitez?

For five years you live and work in a foreign country, putting your heart and soul into the manager’s job.


Poor Rafa. Let’s all get our violins out because a highly-paid manager has to endure five years at the helm of the most successful British football club of all time. He SHOULD be putting his heart and soul into the job; that is the MINIMUM requirement expected of a Liverpool manager.

At a football club where resources don’t match the expectations.


Benitez has had over 230m to spend since he arrived, and that is not including the undisclosed fees paid for dozens of youngsters; the money for signing-on fees and salaries; money for re-signing existing players; money wasted on players warming the bench.

The notion that Benitez has not had the ‘resources’ is completely inaccurate:

20m on Torres
20m on Keane
20m on Aquilani
18.6m on Mascherano
17m on Johnson
16m on Dossena and Riera
11m on Babel
10.5m on Alonso

And that’s just a small selection.

You master a new language, work up to 22-hour days, change players’ diets and training methods and even enjoy an infamous drink in Germany with Liverpool fans.

What is your point? It’s Benitez’s job to master the language. That’s what he is paid for, is it not? I suppose we should give him effusive credit for driving across Liverpool to Anfield every day too?!

Benitez CHOSE to join Liverpool; no one twisted his arm. And working 22 hours a day?! Even if that was true (which I don’t believe it is), no one forced him to work those hours. Perhaps if Benitez worked smarter instead of longer, Liverpool might have benefited.

You left one job where directors refused to sign players you wanted and interfered with transfer dealings…and walked into another one with similar problems.

You conveniently gloss over the fact that Benitez has had problems with the Boards/Directors at many of the clubs he’s managed. He was dismissed abruptly by both Osasuna and Real Valladolid; he had well documented problems with the Valencia board, and now he’s had major problems with the Liverpool Board. It takes two to tango, and Benitez is not blameless in these situations.

You were told you couldn’t sign Simao, Gareth Barry, Michael Dawson, David Villa, David Silva, Kenwyne Jones, Ryan Shawcross and countless others.

Where is the evidence that Benitez was ‘told’ he couldn’t sign any of the above players? Benitez had LOTS of money to spend; he has just spent a lot of it unwisely. As an example: Benitez didn’t need to spend 55m+ on Babel, Dossena, Riera, Keane, Morientes and Lucas; HE chose those players. That money could’ve been spent on better players, but it was usually the case that by the time he had bought the dross, there wasn’t enough money left to buy the likes of Simao (thank god).

And the author uses players like Simao, Kenwyne Jones, Michael Dawson, and Ryan Shawcross (!) to make his argument?! Would these players have taken Liverpool to the next level? I see no evidence to suggest that at all.

You had a club co-owner open talks with Jurgen Klinsmann about succeeding you as manager – and found out about it through the newspapers.


Relations between Benitez and the owners were at an all time low during that period, a situation that was mainly created by Benitez himself, with his public criticism the owners and petulant press conference. Real Madrid started picking through the bones, and given Benitez’s affiliation for them AND his clear unhappiness, it was not beyond the realm of possibility that he could walk.

In such a situation, a prudent owners looks for a possible successor, does he not? What if Benitez just upped and left? Liverpool would’ve been left in the lurch. It is clearly good policy to have a potential replacement in mind, and Benitez forced the owners’ hands with his behavior. At the time, Hicks stated:

"We attempted to negotiate an option as an insurance policy... if Rafa left for Real Madrid or other clubs rumoured”.


This is a perfectly reasonable explanation, and if it had come from Kenny Dalglish (if he was the owner), Liverpool fans would’ve accepted it. Instead, it came from Hicks and Gillett, which meant that fan objectivity went straight out the window.

The fact that the news was revealed by the press is, admittedly, regrettable, but it is just another excuse for the fans to have a go at the owners. The real question is how exactly was the news leaked? In all probability, it was by Benitez himself, in his ongoing attempt to get the fans on his side against the owners. (I have no proof for this, it is merely my opinion).

You signed Xabi Alonso, Fernando Torres, Pepe Reina, Javier Mascherano, Luis Garcia, Yossi Benayoun, Dirk Kuyt, Glen Johnson, Emiliano Inusa, Momo Sissoko, Alvaro Arbeloa, Daniel Agger and Peter Crouch – then people kept saying you have a terrible record in the transfer market.

Selective history here. Yes, Benitez signed those players but what happened to them? Alonso left because he was alienated by Benitez; Mascherano wants to leave for the same reason; Sissoko had to leave because Benitez created unfair competition in central midfield; Crouch left because he was mistreated and regularly dumped on the bench DESPITE having a superb creative ratio from starts; Until recently, Benayoun was another player who was regularly messed about by Benitez; Arbeloa left after two seasons; Agger is always injured.

And let’s not forget Benitez signed the following players: Josemi, Kromkamp, Degen, Babel, Morientes, Pennant, Bellamy, Keane, Dossena, Lucas, Zenden, Nunez, Gonzalez, Palletta, Voronin, Carson, Pellegrino and Leto, all of whom were a waste of money, whether you judge that on transfer fees, signing-on fees or salaries. There have been far more failures in the transfer market than unqualified successes.

In your first season, despite a poor squad, you won the Champions League in one of the most thrilling matches in football history. Key to the run to the final was your ability to squeeze out quality performances from limited players, most notably Igor Biscan.

The so-called ‘poor squad’ the author speaks of included the likes of Gerrard, Carragher, Hyypia, Henchoz, Finnan, Riise, Hamann, Dudek, Baros and Kewell, all of whom are/were good players, and all of whome played their part in that CL triumph. The squad was NOT poor – that is a myth.

You also reached the League Cup final in that first season, losing to Chelsea 3-2 after extra time, and finished fifth in the league.

Fifth in the league: 58 points - 37 points off the top. Even Graeme Souness never managed a points total that low. The 2004-5 league season was a disgrace, and had nothing to do with Houllier’s allegedly ‘poor’ squad. Benitez prioritized the CL and made all the mistakes he’s STILL making today with regards to team selection, formation and general stubbornness.

That FA Cup success in Cardiff made you the only manager in the history of Liverpool Football Club to win major trophies in both of the first two seasons at the club.


Bob Paisley came 2nd in his first season (75-75) and won the League and Uefa Cup in his second full season. Thus, he is in the same boat as Benitez: two seasons, two major trophies. The difference with Paisley is it didn’t stop there and go downhill; things got better and better.

A year later you guided Liverpool to another Champions League final, again knocking out Chelsea on the way. This time it wasn’t to be, but you could be forgiven for thinking people may recognise that it is no mean feat to get that far – and no disgrace to lose to AC Milan.

That final was winnable and should’ve been won. As usual, Benitez’s illogical decisions and downright pig-headed stubbornness conspired to defeat Liverpool.

Peter Crouch should’ve started; everyone knows that, and given the fact Crouch was our TOP CL SCORER that season, the decision to leave him on the bench was not only unfair, it was management negligence. Benitez instead thought it would be a better idea to play Bolo Zenden, as opposed to utilizing the assets of the team in the most beneficial way.

But 2007-8 was a poor year for you. You only reached the semi-finals of the Champions League and finished fourth in the league. Your job was offered to Klinsmann though, so maybe you could be forgiven for taking your eye off the ball.

Yes, it was a poor year, and Benitez was responsible for the poor league position. The Klinnsman incident had nothing to do with it. Furthermore, Benitez brought that situation on himself, as I argued above.

Finally, there is no proof that the job was ‘offered’ to Klinnsman; the owners met with him and discussed the option. If there is evidence that the job was offered to him, please provide it.

And so to last season. Quarter-finals of the Champions League, runners-up in the league with 86 points. The only team in English top-flight history to lose so few games and not be crowned champions. The best points total since 1988, but also the highest of any side in a 20-team league not to win the championship.

And despite all of this, Liverpool STILL failed to win the league?! Last season was the best chance in 20 years for Liverpool to do it. Man United started badly; Chelsea had a new managers, then yet another managerial change mid-season; Arsenal was in transition and not really a serious title threat.

Liverpool raced into a 7 point lead…and then lost it due to a variety of factors, including 11 draws in the league; Benitez’s usual defensive tactics; failure to change games quicker; over-reliance on/favouritism for, underperforming players; needless public spats that created intense media scrutiny and derailed the team’s focus.

Liverpool peaked under Benitez last season, and despite the title being handed to the club on a plate, Benitez’s managerial weaknesses conspired to defeat Liverpool yet again.

And let’s not forget, you’ve won 57 per cent of your games in charge of Liverpool, the same as Bob Paisley.

The difference is Paisley won 19 trophies in 9 years, including 6 league titles and 3 European Cups. His win ratio actually yielded RESULTS. A good win ratio is irrelevant if the league is never won. I guess the author would be happy if Benitez stayed for 10 more years and retained the same win ration but never won another trophy?

You might think your excellent record buys you some time in the job at Anfield and some patience from the fans, just like it does for Arsene Wenger, trophyless with Arsenal since 2005.

The difference here is that Wenger has EARNED the right to have trophyless seasons. He has won the premiership THREE TIMES. His team plays exciting football, similar to the way Liverpool used to play. The comparison is ridiculous; if Benitez had won three titles then I (and others) would be behind him all the way.

Mourinho, Guus Hiddink, Fabio Capello…all top managers that trigger-happy fans have been mentioning as they debate Rafa’s replacement. But why would any of them come to Anfield? No money to spend, owners that hate each other, sky-high expectations and a demand for immediate results…

Don’t overstate the issue or anything. Given the fact Liverpool is one of the most prestigious managerial jobs in football, I think it is safe to assume that managers would be queuing up for the job. Last season proved that the players currently in the squad could be moulded into a title winning side.

And it is inaccurate to state there will be no money to spend; when has that EVER been the case at Liverpool?! In the last two seasons alone, Benitez has spent 70m+ - that is very far from having no money to spend. And where is this alleged demand for ‘immediate results’?! This is Benitez’s 6th year in charge; fans are entitled to look for evidence of consistent improvement in the league.

Any new manager would be given the same time to achieve as Benitez. Again, this has always been the case at Liverpool, and there is no evidence to suggest that anything will change in the future.

Rafa has done a good job at times for Liverpool, but to canonise him as some kind of untouchable Saint/victim who has been crucified by the owners is simply laughable.

For the record: I do NOT want Benitez sacked; I do not want him to resign. He should be given this season and then, unless the title is won this season, I believe managerial change is essential next summer.



88 comments:

  1. You just don't get it do you Jamie?

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  2. What being a fan means

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  3. objectivity fails most of your negative followers

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  4. Sorry, but that means nothing. Please explain what you mean.

    Blind faith is NOT objectivity.

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  5. Ah, I see.  So you are the one who decides who is and is not a 'fan', right/

    Why don't you explain it to me.

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  6. You say that our CL 2005 squad was not POOR. So lets say that they are average. 
    On that basis, the current squad is superior, thus well above average, possibly great? 

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  7. you people just dont get it do you... jaimie obviously does love this club otherwise he wouldnt waste his time writing articles would he???? he writes great articles and i personally believe me and him share the same opinions.. i come on here pretty much every day to read his articles... come on jaimie keep the articles coming!

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  8. Your wasting your breath with ThisIsAnfield jaimie i have posted a few comments about rafa's faults on their website and was met with a barrage of hate from people, comments ranging from f*** off to i wasnt a real fan and go and support chelsea.

    I am a real fan, a season ticket holder for many years and when work commitments allow i also attend away games. I have several friends who are season ticket holders at old trafford and when ferguson is getting things wrong they are critical of him so i dont see why benitez should be above critiscm.

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  9. what are you on about?????????? we had the likes of hyypia (world class), riise, henchoz, carragher, gerrard, kewell (before injuries), dudek, morientes (great before coming to LIVERPOOL), baros, hamann (great DM) Jaimie has great articles which are 99% of the time correct!! Keep the articles coming!

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  10. give urself a clap. because that maybe the worst, most anti-liverpool artical iv ever read!

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  11. What i mean was most of your "commentors/followers" are not objective

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  12. That must be how jaimie's feeling right now... cuz i believe that hes a real fan..

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  13. Football fans are not objective in general.  It is impossible to be truly objective when it comes to football.  That goes both ways, for fans who have blind faith and for those who who ake a more realistic POV.

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  14. Anti-Liverpool?  Please explain how.

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  15. then dont read these articles... DUH! jaimie ignore them! keep the articles coming!

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  16. I fail to see what this 'article' achieves.  I think you've wasted a great deal of time.  Let me explain:  All I read is a long list of every bit of critisism and praise labled at rafa since 2004.  And all you've done is listed both the argument for and argument against in most of your responses.  That is not really forming an argument of your own, more rather sitting on the fence without realising it.

    It's basically saying 'yes' or 'no' and then following it with 'but..'

    You can spend hours going over rafa's faults in great detail - and he would look like the worst manager in the world.  You can go back and do the same for all the 'greats' - Shanks, Paisely etc.. and they would come across as the worst possible candidate for the job. 

    However I think you forget that football management is no exact science.  there's no formula to ensure success.  our progress over last season counts for nothing and I think the frustration is starting to come to the surface in a lot of fans and it's not healthy. 

    Yes air your views at bad results and poor performances.  But spending hours looking at 5 years of history under a microscope achieves nothing.  If fans were about 40 years ago then Shankly would have been out the door for failing to get us promoted in his first full season.

    Paisely would have been out of the door too for failing to win anything in his first season despite inheriting an FA Cup winning side that HAD to go on and win the title next season - because that's how fans think.

    Well at least that's how it is today and I think you're caught up in the mix and need to be a different type of fan, but a fan non the less.

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  17. also post what you think the line ups should be vs lyon tonight please!! my opinion:
    Reina
    Johnson
    Carragher
    Skrtel
    Aurelio
    Agger(Mascherano is not showing faith so agger as DM)
    Gerrard(just ahead of him - CM)
    Kuyt/Babel
    Riera
    Benayoun
    Kuyt/Babel

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  18. I totally understand Ian - this is the problem with some fans; they have this nonsensical idea that support = blind faith; never questioning the manager; always putting a positive spin on things; ignoring blatant problems.

    Hmmm - let's see where this approach has worked in history. 

    Blind faith....unyielding belief in a leader...hatred directed towards people who question the status quo...the pro majority slapping down the realisic minority...unwillingness to accept the ness for change....

    Sounds suspisciously like many of the dictatorships that have blighted the world since the beginning of time.

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  19. I have usually not been a fan of your writing , but i think this time you are right on the money. No one in any job is above criticism. And win percentage is a wrong stat to use in any meaningful way. Titles matter. I dont think most of his pig headed notions of tactics are working anymore , either his tactics has been found out or they had more to do with blind luck. But apart from torres , reina and alonso, who else has he sold for a great profit. Unless he drops lucas and soon, we are doomed. These last few games, i cant bare to watch us. 

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  20. I just don't understand why you bother following Liverpool, how can you garner any pleasure from doing so, if your outlook is so negative.  You only ever write to discredit the manager.  Granted he's going through a sticky patch and many things he does raise question marks.  But, overall, when you take a step back from the current "storm" progress has been made and a lack of funds have hindered things.  He may have spent £220m, but he's also had to sell inorder to reach that figure.  Net spend and current squad value are a truer reflection of what investment has been made available to improve the squad and I'm pretty sure it's on a par or less than the other top of the table competitors.

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  21. Are these confirmed figures or plucked from other sources that in themselves created these figures. Its pitiful implying Dossena and Riera either individual cost £16m or combining their fees to justify your need to have a big number that serves to tarnish the judgement of another man.
    Some of your genuinely objective points get overshadowed by tryung to over elaborate with the anything goes charade.
    The club has a revolving door policy where some are brought in and some sold and this is what is taken into consideration for the club hierachy to decide how much is available for spending..The moment none is sold is when u will realise we wont be able to get players anywhere above £10m. I think analysing the culb's balance sheets and projecting the trend of how it has been balanced the last few years will not show a significant deviation from the norm. £20m today when you consider the impact of inflation is going to be much less than it was a few years ago..Alan Shearer was bought for a record £15m but now Darren Bent and players of similar ability cost £16m. 
    you will realise if you look around that even conservative Arsenal has got a few £10m plus bought in recent years despite having a thriving academy.
    Our expenditure cant be looked at in isolation but you have to compare with clubs of similar ambition in England and Europe and you will soon realise we are just keeping up with the times..A few clubs like Tottenham, City and Sunderland can even easily outspend us even though none have finished above us this decade.

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  22. No JD.

    The parts in bold are from the TIA article. The non-bold parts are my arguments against those points.

    I'm not trying to 'achieve' anything apart from presenting a more realistic view.

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  23. Arbeloa left after one season
    where do you get your facts?
    another lousy article from jamie-well done

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  24. yeh well this season they have outspended us... and its because of rafa's team selections and stubborness could lead to them overtaking us in expenditure and also final league position...

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  25. Jamie, i have become quite a fan of your articles in recent weeks, if not your views expressed.  But this is not a great article in my opinion.  Simply respondindg to every point in another article and making no concessions whatsoever to any valid points (the point regarding a poor 04/05 squad being a prime example) does not constitute a good read to me.

    I think the general feelings amongst your critics is that that although Rafa has made mistakes and is certainly not perfect, he has done a very respectable job at Liverpool and should be afforded more respect than you appear to show him, by constantly writing negative article about every bad team selection or mistake.

    as i mentioned in a previous post, the timing of these artcles are crazy to me.  We have a huge 5 days ahead of us where we are fighting for our lives in 2 premier competitions.  These discussions should not be happening now as all efforts should be focused on the TEAM and getting the right results this week.  Perhaps next Monday my tune might be different, but 2 wind this week would give Rafa every opportunity to make this a successful season yet.

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  26. Stop spouting blatant inacuracies.  My last two articles prior to this were POSITIVE and SUPPORTIVE of Benitez, so to say I only ever 'discredit the manager' is just (deliberate) ignorance.

    When are fans like you going to understand that is our DUTY to analyse and question.  There needs to be accountability, not Blind Faith.  Credit where credit is due; criticism where criticism is due.

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  27. You are right Jaimie!!!I don't know  how Benitez has become "A Saint" without winning the league!Just imagine if he had won it!!I think part of the teaory is that he has "played" the victim and the half of Liverpool supporters think he is the good guy  versus the owners the bad guys.Add the hostile press then Benitez is truly a victimised saint. But Arguments will run out , his "lack of funds" defence will run out soon this season is make or break for him. I don't think he'll get another one if he underperforms.We are LIverpool we deserve the best, and bear in mind it's 20 years now since we won the league, last season was one off. I don't think Benitez will finish second anymore!!!

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  28. Man, Rafa/LFC have seriously wronged you in some way. Get this chip off your shoulder and stop being a complete c*nt with everyone .

    /rant

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  29. Most of Jamie's articles are anti-Benitez, not anti-Liverpool. I must also say that Liverpool have been a poorly run club for the last 20 years. This includes board as well as managers. Fact is we'll never know for sure how many of the scre ups are down to our managers and how many down to chief executives and chairmen.

    With regards to CL team. Dudek good goalkeeper but not exactly world class. Traore, very poor. Sami and Jamie, were quality but had no pace. Finnan was a solid right back but not exactly a Cafu. Gerrard was world class. Baros scored 3 goals from Jan - June that year, so how can anyone say he was great. Kewell played 17 mins of that final, and was poor all season. Garcia was very good. Riise was an above average but not exactly world class player at the time. All in all the squad was pretty poor.

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  30. Thanks for your comments.  First, when I write stuff I'm not trying to create a 'great' article; I just write the way I see things.  I'm just an ordinary fan like you and every other LFC fan.

    I responded to the TIA article because the tone of the article irritate me.  If you read, you can easily see the sarcasm.  The whole article is mocking Liverpool fans who do not hold the views espoused in the article; it is saying: 'if you deviate from this line of thinking, then you are not a real fan'.

    I'm sorry, but opposing viewpoints need to be advanced, especially when what is being argued in the article is clearly not in line with the reality of the situation.

    So - I advance an opposing view.  People will read both and make up their own minds.

    I do not disagree that Benitez has done a respectable job.  However, that does not mean we just ignore the problems he has created or the mistakes he has made.  Criticism goes woth the territory when you're a manager, and if he can't hack it, he shouldn't have taken the job.

    re timing of articles - there is never a right or wrong time to make a point, it seems.  When things happen, they should be discussed there and then, not 2 weeks later when things have settled down.

    Where is that a policy *anywhere* when it comes to reporting news? Something happens; it's reported; people comment.  That's the way of the world.

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  31. Calling me anti-benitez is not realy accurate; I am anti-anything that is not working for the club, and in my view, Benitez is no longer working out for Liverpool.

    And it's rich to call me anti-Benitez; pretty hypocritical really when EVERY Liverpool fan is anti-Someone/Something at the club, whether it's Anti-Lucas, Anti-babel, Anti-Owners etc etc.

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  32. Re figures - when you say confirmed...unless the club releases details, it is impossible to accurately confirm any transfer figure because personal employment contracts are confidential. the figures I've quoted come from recognised LFC sources like LFChistory.net and the official LFC site.

    Focusing on whether the figures are 100% accurate is missing the point:  Whether Torres cost 20m (and I went for the lower end) 21m, 23m or 24m doesn't matter - the point is he cost a lot of money, most probebaly 20m plus. Quibbling over the details does not change the main point, which is Benitez has had LOTS of money to spend.

    He has just wasted much of it.

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  33. Let me begin by saying I DO NOT always agree with what Jamie writes. Having said that this article in response to TIA to me has a lot of truth or at least common sense to it.

    I don't understand why people accuse him of being a non-fan, just because he isn't lead on blind faith? In my day job I'm known as the "guy who throws the spanner in the works" I basically nit-pick on ideas in projects to see all that could go wrong. Basically my role is to be the ultimate pessimist. But is my objective to make the project FAIL? HELL NO. I do it so that all possible (or at least humanly/statistically foreseeable) pitfalls for failure is identified and treated with caution. Why? So chances of success is INCREASED. If the whole project team consists of "Yes men" we all know that in all likelyhood things are doomed to fail.

    Jamie I salute you for the important (yet often unappreciated, or dare I say despised) role of being the "hatchetman".

    p.s. Owen is my name...I never liked Michael always thought he was overrated

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  34. Maybe you could point me in the direction of these positive and supportive articles, thanks.

    Also, "fans like me" do analyse and question, but are also aware of the constraints any current Liverpool manager is under, whether it be Benitez or anyone else - sometimes you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.  Benitez is far from perfect, but the current owners don't have the money to sack, then attract and invest in anyone better. 

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  35. Sounds cool. I have to say I agree on most parts of it, if not all. I don't believe the author hates Benitez, I'm almost 100% sure no Liverpool fan hates Benitez for what he's done for the club. But when things start going downhill, one must question and not just wait and wait and continue waiting. I mean, are we really ready to wait for another 20 years or so? If that's the case, don't question Benitez and when we lose the league, just smile and say "We're unlucky again this time." and perhaps wait for another 20 years or so and would still be unsure of the title.

    As the author said, he does not want Benitez to be fired of to resign. He was merely pointing out to what he thinks is the problem at the moment. I'm sure everyone's entitled to have a point of view. His only sin is to say it out loud and share it with the rest and honestly, I don't believe it's wrong. Keep it up Jaimie, "You'll never walk alone" -- Now I think that's how the spirit is supposed to be..

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  36. Fair enough, i can see where your coming from.  To be honest, i wasn't a fan of the TIA article at all in the slightest.

    The main point i like to make about Rafa is hif fantastic record in the latter part of seasons.  If you wree to take a look at his record during his time at Liverpoool, and indeed his time at Valencia, you will see he manages to produce his bets form when it really matters as they say.  The problem has normally been (and is in danger of ebcoming so again) that the early part of the season is where points are dropped rendering the late push rather futile.  BUT, a win on Sunday would see us just 4 points behind UTD, and if we could stay within touching distance of the leading pack, evidence suggests Rafa and the team could produce a late surge that coul juts be good enough to win us the title.  and at the end of the day, if he manages to do that whether it be by going top for the 1st time on the last day of the season or whatever, these defeats and mistakes (and i fully accept there have been mistakes) may iltimately not be as bad as they appear right now!

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  37. Right, so we are at a point we we all ask - "who do we replace him with?" He's spent too much, won us nothing, can't attract great players and we can't win a game for pennies.  We're lucky to be in the champions league at all this season because we only just scraped into the CL places and we're looking down the barrel of doing nothing again this season.

    Your article, while well written and accurate, really leaves more questions unanswered than helping the situation.  Yes we are awful this season.  Yes we didn't win the league last season.  BUT one question, what's the difference between Arsenal and Liverpool over the same time period?  Why is no-one clamouring for Wengers head?  And ultimately how does all of this help the team (not the manager mind but the team).

    I understand what your saying I just can't help feeling that if you want to criticise the manager you need to come up with some alternatives.

    Laters

    ReplyDelete
  38. Right, so we are at a point we we all ask - "who do we replace him with?" He's spent too much, won us nothing, can't attract great players and we can't win a game for pennies.  We're lucky to be in the champions league at all this season because we only just scraped into the CL places and we're looking down the barrel of doing nothing again this season.

    Your article, while well written and accurate, really leaves more questions unanswered than helping the situation.  Yes we are awful this season.  Yes we didn't win the league last season.  BUT one question, what's the difference between Arsenal and Liverpool over the same time period?  Why is no-one clamouring for Wengers head?  And ultimately how does all of this help the team (not the manager mind but the team).

    I understand what your saying I just can't help feeling that if you want to criticise the manager you need to come up with some alternatives.

    Laters

    ReplyDelete
  39. Are you a spawn of the much loved k*ptalk by any chance?

    I don't have a problem with someone airing their view at all, but how is your comment today any different from TIA's? you're making out they are forcing opinions on people, yet all you want is people to criticise the team.

    Get to the game and support the team rather than slagging them off. What are you going to write if tehy lose?

    ReplyDelete
  40. People are not calling for Wenger's head for two reasons:

    1. He has won the premiership 3 TIMES.  He has earned the right to have trophyless seasons.  He has proved that he has the ability to win Arsenal the title.

    2. Arsenal play football the way it should be played.  Wenger's philosopphy is completely in line with that the 'beautiful game' should be all about.

    As a comparison - during the Roy Evans era, I was an extremely happy fan. It was frustrating not winning the league BUT I was happy because Liverpool were amazing to watch.  The football was progressive and exciting, and flair players were encouraged, not sidelined. It's great to win trophies but part of the enjoyment of football is the excitement it generated, and during the Evans era, there was lots of exciting football to be enjoyed. As an aside, let's not forget that Liverpool never finished outide the top 4 with Evans, and that was with a hell of a lot less money than the likes of Houllier and Benitez had to play with.

    Re alternatives to Rafa:

    I disagree that there is not a Manager in the world who could replace him and do a better job. And let's be clear here about what we mean by 'better job': winning the league.  If someone came in and won Liverpool the league, then that would be classed as doing a better job, would it not?  
     
    Anyone who comes in doesn't necessarily have to be a better manager.  Rafa may have more tactical mous than others, but when it comes to man-management, there are plemty of managers out there who are far superior to him.  Effective man-management is vitally important to creating a consistently successful team. This is the vital component missing from modern Liverpool, and it has been missing since Roy Evans left.  
     
    In terms of managers who could come in and potentially win Liverpool the league, my list of possibles is as follows:  
     
    Favourites  
     
    Martin O'Neill  
    Felix Magath  
    Manolo Jiminez  
    Frank Rijkaard  
    Jose Mourinho  
    Guus Hiddink  
     
    Experienced Outside bets  
     
    Ottmar Hitzfeld 
    Martin Jol  
    Ronald Koeman  
    Kenny Dalgish  
    Marcello Lippi
    Giovanni Trappatoni

    Young up and coming managers (in the Guardiola mould - what had Guardiala won as a manager prior to the Barcelona job? ZILCH)  
     
    Marco Van Basten (International experience: Got Holland to WC last 16)

    Michael Laudrup 

    Didier Deschamps  (Got Juventus promoted to Serie A)

    Markus Babbel (Took Stuttgart to 3rd place in the Bundesliga in his first season)  

    Laurent Blanc   (2nd in first season at Bordeaux; won the league in 2nd season)
     
    Are we seriously to believe that none of the above managers could do better than Benitez in the league?

    ReplyDelete
  41. totally agree with you jamie ,blind faith in a manager who is still living off
    istanbul 2005 is not going to help the club be sucessful again. rafa has had enough money and time ,for us to move forward rafa has to admit to himself that he has made alot of bad decisions in the tranfer market and
    his inability to learn from his mistakes  ie, poor team selections, constantly selecting and showing faith in players who are obviously not good enough to pay for liverpool football club while constantly leaving out players with skill and potential this is bad for the players confidence and team morale ,ryan babble is a good example he has obviously had  his  confidence destroyed by rafa ,he knows even if he plays a good game and scores a hatrick  he will be warming the bench for the next half a dozen games he olny needs  a good run of 20 or so games in his natural position wich every liverpool fan knows is a striker and be allowed to have bad games you will soon enough see a diferent player but rafa seems to be too  arrogant and stuck in his ways to change and this will be his
    downfall .

    PS.  i am a fan of rafa benitez 

    ReplyDelete
  42. Spot on.

    At last, someone who speaks sense.

    If I were you though Jaimie, I'd tread carefully, as this mob-rule that comes to the fore when dear old Rafa dare be criticised might just catch up with you.

    The trance-like hold he has over the majority of fans is downright frightening. I lost faith after the botched job in Athens two years back. I said there and then that he didn't have the tactical nouse to take us further. He hasn't. There's tons more evidence and it's been played out since to suggest that is the case.

    I personally don't celebrate finishing second. Most reds do nowadays sadly. We blew it last season. HE blew it. I for one do not revel in that - I merely cringe at the thought of his press conference pre-Stoke and some of the spineless draws that followed. Very UN-LIVERPOOL like.

    The board might be clowns, but it would be poetic justice for all concerned should they sell-out and subsequently sack that buffon as a parting gift.
    Let him go an hog the headlines somewhere else.

    One postscript for you all to remember:

    YOU CAN'T WIN THE LEAGUE ON PENALTIES!

    A great write Jaimie. Keep up the good work.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Have you read "A Season on the Brink", Jaimie? I suggest you read that to find out how Rafa was forced to leave Valencia. 

    I agree that TIA's article was very sycophantic, but I have to take issue with some of the points you make, but I'll save that for another day, I have 3 exams this week. 

    ReplyDelete
  44. I am beginning to feel Benitez has had enough time to have drawn up a well-settled squad and a lineup strong enough to at least contend for the title. My concern is primarily Liverpool's inconsistency as title challengers and as a team. Rafa's signings have more or less failed, and when Alonso left, it was the final straw. Rafa has had enough time and resources, and should honestly start delivering.

    I hope Liverpool don't sink into a hole this season. Waiting to see if Rafa can pull us out of this one and make better signings in the summer before I completely lose faith in him. I am sure most LFC fans feel the same. They are not stpid enough to follow rafa (or any1 else for that matter) blindly. No one is too high to be questioned if he doesn't deliver.

    ReplyDelete
  45. I am beginning to feel Benitez has had enough time to have drawn up a well-settled squad and a lineup strong enough to at least contend for the title. My concern is primarily Liverpool's inconsistency as title challengers and as a team. Rafa's signings have more or less failed, and when Alonso left, it was the final straw. Rafa has had enough time and resources, and should honestly start delivering.

    I hope Liverpool don't sink into a hole this season. Waiting to see if Rafa can pull us out of this one and make better signings in the summer before I completely lose faith in him. I am sure most LFC fans feel the same. They are not stpid enough to follow rafa (or any1 else for that matter) blindly. No one is too high to be questioned if he doesn't deliver.

    ReplyDelete
  46. 'Season on the Brink' is written by the ultra optimist Paul Tomkins.  I haven't read it, and unless it contains irrefutable, factual evidence about Rafa's departure from Valencia, it is merely PT's opinion on what went down.

    Good luck with your exams!

    ReplyDelete
  47. Are you suggesting Roy Evans was a good man manager - the man who had no respect from half his squad (think back to Collymore Ruddock et al)??

    You can't be serious regarding the first 4 names you suggest.  O'Neill plays horrible football, which relies on counter attacking and set pieces.  Rijkaard alienated players and lost the dressing more. 

    I'd agree with Hiddinck and Lippi and through gritted teeth Mourinho, but all would need vast sums of money, which is even more important these days (unfortunatley) than a good manager.

    ReplyDelete
  48. The trouble with your 'Benitez has spent loads so he shoiuld have won the Premiership' claim is that you're not comparing it with what everyone else has spent. 

    If spending equals success, as you clearly believe, then Liverpool have no right to finish above fourth.  Whether you take net cost or gross cost, Liverpool have spend nowehere near as much as Man Utd, Chelsea, Spurs or Man City. 

    In fact, wage spenning is actually the best guide to success - as detailed by Simon Kuper in Soccernomics - accurate to 92% for predicting the likely league position of any club. 

    Guess where Liverpool were last season?  4th place. So coming a close second was exceeding expectations by a huge margin. 

    You also say Benitez is porr in the trasnfer market.  Compared to whom? 
    Ferguson, Wenger and Mourhinio all have plenty of shockers to offset their succeses. 

    You're trotting out tired myths that don't stand up to any scrutiny. 

    ReplyDelete
  49. Net spend is irrelevant, and is used by fans as a way of muddying the waters and removing Benitez's responsibility for poor transfers.

    Spending does not equal success.  This is ridiculous!  And last season proves this.  Liverpool finished 2nd despite only spending 17m (Dossena + Riera + Ngog).  Keane isn't counted because he left in January.

    So - despite not having a new 20m played for the bulk of the season and despite Man U/Chelsea's suerior spending power, Liverpool finished second.

    It's not about how much money is spent; it's about spending the money you do have WISELY.

    ReplyDelete
  50. You haven't answered any of the points except to rant about the irrelevance of net spend and making an unsubstatiated assertion about 'spending wisely', whatever that means. 

    As evidenced by 25 years of research (as detailed in Soccernomics), wage bill does equate to success with 92% accuracy.

    And you assert that it's how you spend money that matters.  Well ok, so who is better than Rafa?  Who has a transfer success rate higher than his?  Has he spent more unwisely than any other big four premiership manager?

    You seem to have high expectations of Benitez for some reason. Why is he expected to be a better buyer than anyone else?  Why is he expected to overturn the 92%-accurate wage bill factor?  What do you base this expectation on? 

    You cannot review Beitez's record without taking into account what others have done or have spent.  And on those terms, Benitez has done well.

    ReplyDelete
  51. if you search the comments using the Lijit search, you will lots of detailed explanations as to why I think net spend is irrelevant.

    I'm net-spended out to be honest. I've addressed the issue countless times over the last month.  I just coudn't be bothered to repeat myself again.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Net spend is absolutley relevent, it's how much the owners are actually investing in the squad - to improve the squad.  Unfortunatley spending does equal success and even more so now.  Money, plus a good manager, plus a good youth set up (in that order) equals longterm success.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Having said that, I will respond in more detail later/tomorrow morning.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Who is a better manager then, Houllier or Benitez? Houllier has won more trophies than Benitez albeit Benitez won the most prestigious. Houllier guided Liverpool to second place in the premier league same as Benitez? Houllier built the academy and rebuilt the training ground. Houllier helped to start the career of Owen, Carragher and Gerrard. And he nearly died doing all this. So why wasn't he idolised like Benitez is at the moment? Benitez has done a good job at Liverpool but he's not the god that some people think he is. We all love and support Liverpool Football Club here, that doesn't mean we can't criticise the manager or players when we feel they are not doing their job. May be we all need to give our full supports to Voronin and Dossena!!!!  

    ReplyDelete
  55. 'Calling me anti-benitez is not realy accurate; I am anti-anything that is not working for the club, and in my view, Benitez is no longer working out for Liverpool.'
    <div>
    I think you just called yourself anti-Benitez there.</div>
    <div>
    </div>
    <div>I also never said it was a bad thing that you are anti-Benitez, or it was wrong to slag him off, etc. Where exactly in my earlier comment did I say this? Please quote me.
    </div>

    ReplyDelete
  56. I take it as a compliment that you are so riled by my piece. As for casting aspersions about it (and therefore me) well you are one to talk about misrepresentation of facts (nearly fell off my chair laughing at that one).

    As you have done here with my piece (well received by a lot of fans BTW), I could sit down for hours and tear apart your counter arguments.

    Frankly, I can't be arsed, there are more important things in my life. Who are you like? The self-appointed oracle on Liverpool FC? Why do I need to justify myself to you? The answer is, I don't. So I won't.

    People can make up their own minds. You keep reeling off your spin, dressing up you negativity as some kind of individual light at the end of the tunnel, I'll keep doing what I do - writing honestly about my views on Liverpool FC. And people can choose which they wish to read and which they'd rather pass by.

    I have no interest in what you think - or in your site, particularly since I became aware of your support for the Manchester United site that sells t-shirts about Heysel. Nor do I wish to be dragged into your bitter feud with TIA (from where you are banned of course for, I would take a guess, being a wind-up merchant?).

    Carry on sniping.

    ReplyDelete
  57. I haven't cast any aspersions against you or your article.  In fact, it's quite the opposite; I praised your article, calling it 'well written, compelling and persuasive'.  Wow.  Some serious aspersions being cast there!

    And I do not doubt your article was well received.  That's not the issue.   This sort of thing happens every day - one website posts something; another site posts an opposing article.  It's called debate.  If you can't hack people challenging your views thendon't put your work in the public domain.

    ReplyDelete
  58. No, its written by Guillem Balague. The foreword is by Paul Tomkins. It does contain some evidence, and gives a lot of insight into Benitez's methods, and the on goings at Liverpool. IMO its a must-read when talking about Benitez.

    Thanks a lot, mate. 

    ReplyDelete
  59. Why edit the reply? Touch a nerve? You are a joke mate.

    ReplyDelete
  60. No - you just spouted unnecessary bile; why should I keep that on the site?  You clearly do not have the grace to acept that I fairly challenged your views.  I even praised your article in glowing terms.  Hardly surprising though since you and your tiresome LFC cronies regularly slag off me /the site on Twitter (completely unprovoked by the way).

    People take my posts apart on a regular basis - I encourage it. If you're going to advance a view that is typical blind-faith, prepare to have it challenged.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Jaimie you seem to be swerving the issues here.  I am not asking you to defend your position on net spend.  Forget that.

    What I'm asking is:

    Do you disagree with the 25 year stats compiled by Simon Kuper that show that wage bill equates to league position with 92% accuracy?  If so, where is your counter evidence? 

    If Benitez is so bad in the transfer market, who is better?  who exactly has 'spend wisely' as you blithely assert? 

    And if he is no better or worse than anyone else, where do your unrealistic expectations that he be a genius in spending come from? 

    ReplyDelete
  62. <span><span>Oh Jamie... I can feel you passion mate, I just don't agree with the vast majority of what you have to say. Your comments are in bold....</span></span>
    <span>I have had to separate this in to 4 separate parts because there's not enough room....</span>


    Chose to leave? More like walked out on Valencia because he couldn't get his own way. Sound familiar?
    Sound familiar? Actually no it doesn't. Rafa has not actually walked anywhere has he? Despite the best efforts of our clueless owners who have let him and everyone of us down with their lies, despite repeated interest from Real Madrid – his home town club, despite the numerous broken promises, despite being stabbed in the back time and time again. Lesser men would have walked years ago. What Rafa achieved at Valencia was a miracle, an unbelievable achievement, that proves that Rafa is a top top manager. But despite his incredible success at Valencia the board refused to back him, broke promises to him and took him for granted (that bit sounds familiar). So he leaves - and surprise surprise they have not come close to winning anything ever since. Jamie.... Why don't you ask the Valencia supporters what they think of Rafa? To them he is a god, they still fly fags with his image and sing his name – we are lucky to have him.
    <p> 
    </p><p><span><span>Benitez is stubborn and autocratic; if he doesn't get *everything he wants* without question, he is not happy. Liverpool has found this out many times</span></span><span><span>.</span></span>
    </p><p>This is not even a point. When has Rafa actually got ANYTHING he wanted? He wanted Gareth Barry – He got Robbie Keane. He wanted Simao – He got Pennant. He wanted David Villa, he had to keep Vorolyn. So what if he's stubborn and autocratic? (in your opinion, and I would be very surprised if you know him personally) It hasn't stopped him from making the best with what he's got to work with has it?
    </p><p><span>
    When Benitez walks out on Liverpool, I doubt you will be saying he 'chose' to go to a new club. It will more likely be 'Rafa was forced out by the owners/not backed financially' or some other untrue cliché.
    </span>
    </p><p><span>He wont walk. The owners have done all they can to push him out the door, they have not backed him financially, they have undermined him many times РThis is not an untrue clich̩, its a crystal clear fact that is blatantly obvious to everybody other than you and Stan Collymore.</span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span>How do you know the offers were more lucrative? Did you have access to the employment contracts each club offered Benitez?</span>
    </p><p><span>Jamie... How do you know the offers were not more lucrative? Do you have access to the employment contracts each club offered Benitez? Thought not... Lets face it Jamie, Real Madrid would have offered Rafa more money – I don't have access to any contracts or anything like that, but it doesn't take a genius to suspect that they would have put more money on the table - because they always do.</span>


    </p><p><span>Poor Rafa. Let’s all get our violins out because a highly-paid manager has to endure five years at the helm of the most successful British football club of all time. He SHOULD be putting his heart and soul into the job; that is the MINIMUM requirement expected of a Liverpool
    [...]

    ReplyDelete
  63. <span><span>Oh Jamie... I can feel you passion mate, I just don't agree with the vast majority of what you have to say. Your comments are in bold....</span></span>
    <span>I have had to separate this in to several separate parts because there's not enough room (max 5000 characters)....</span>


    Chose to leave? More like walked out on Valencia because he couldn't get his own way. Sound familiar?
    Sound familiar? Actually no it doesn't. Rafa has not actually walked anywhere has he? Despite the best efforts of our clueless owners who have let him and everyone of us down with their lies, despite repeated interest from Real Madrid – his home town club, despite the numerous broken promises, despite being stabbed in the back time and time again. Lesser men would have walked years ago. What Rafa achieved at Valencia was a miracle, an unbelievable achievement, that proves that Rafa is a top top manager. But despite his incredible success at Valencia the board refused to back him, broke promises to him and took him for granted (that bit sounds familiar). So he leaves - and surprise surprise they have not come close to winning anything ever since. Jamie.... Why don't you ask the Valencia supporters what they think of Rafa? To them he is a god, they still fly fags with his image and sing his name – we are lucky to have him.
    <p> 
    </p><p><span><span>Benitez is stubborn and autocratic; if he doesn't get *everything he wants* without question, he is not happy. Liverpool has found this out many times</span></span><span><span>.</span></span>
    </p><p>This is not even a point. When has Rafa actually got ANYTHING he wanted? He wanted Gareth Barry – He got Robbie Keane. He wanted Simao – He got Pennant. He wanted David Villa, he had to keep Vorolyn. So what if he's stubborn and autocratic? (in your opinion, and I would be very surprised if you know him personally) It hasn't stopped him from making the best with what he's got to work with has it?
    </p><p><span>
    When Benitez walks out on Liverpool, I doubt you will be saying he 'chose' to go to a new club. It will more likely be 'Rafa was forced out by the owners/not backed financially' or some other untrue cliché.
    </span>
    </p><p><span>He wont walk. The owners have done all they can to push him out the door, they have not backed him financially, they have undermined him many times РThis is not an untrue clich̩, its a crystal clear fact that is blatantly obvious to everybody other than you and Stan Collymore.</span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span>How do you know the offers were more lucrative? Did you have access to the employment contracts each club offered Benitez?</span>
    </p><p><span>Jamie... How do you know the offers were not more lucrative? Do you have access to the employment contracts each club offered Benitez? Thought not... Lets face it Jamie, Real Madrid would have offered Rafa more money – I don't have access to any contracts or anything like that, but it doesn't take a genius to suspect that they would have put more money on the table - because they always do.</span>


    </p><p><span>Poor Rafa. Let’s all get our violins out because a highly-paid manager has to endure five years at the helm of the most successful British football club of all time. He SHOULD be putting his heart and soul into the job; that is the MINIMUM requirement expected of a [...]

    ReplyDelete
  64. <span><span>Oh Jamie... I can feel you passion mate, I just don't agree with the vast majority of what you have to say. Your comments are in bold....</span></span>
    <span>I have had to separate this in to several separate parts because there's not enough room (max 5000 characters)....</span>

    Chose to leave? More like walked out on Valencia because he couldn't get his own way. Sound familiar?
    Sound familiar? Actually no it doesn't. Rafa has not actually walked anywhere has he? Despite the best efforts of our clueless owners who have let him and everyone of us down with their lies, despite repeated interest from Real Madrid – his home town club, despite the numerous broken promises, despite being stabbed in the back time and time again. Lesser men would have walked years ago. What Rafa achieved at Valencia was a miracle, an unbelievable achievement, that proves that Rafa is a top top manager. But despite his incredible success at Valencia the board refused to back him, broke promises to him and took him for granted (that bit sounds familiar). So he leaves - and surprise surprise they have not come close to winning anything ever since. Jamie.... Why don't you ask the Valencia supporters what they think of Rafa? To them he is a god, they still fly fags with his image and sing his name – we are lucky to have him.
    <p> 
    </p><p><span><span>Benitez is stubborn and autocratic; if he doesn't get *everything he wants* without question, he is not happy. Liverpool has found this out many times</span></span><span><span>.</span></span>
    </p><p>This is not even a point. When has Rafa actually got ANYTHING he wanted? He wanted Gareth Barry – He got Robbie Keane. He wanted Simao – He got Pennant. He wanted David Villa, he had to keep Vorolyn. So what if he's stubborn and autocratic? (in your opinion, and I would be very surprised if you know him personally) It hasn't stopped him from making the best with what he's got to work with has it?
    </p><p><span>
    When Benitez walks out on Liverpool, I doubt you will be saying he 'chose' to go to a new club. It will more likely be 'Rafa was forced out by the owners/not backed financially' or some other untrue cliché.
    </span>
    </p><p><span>He wont walk. The owners have done all they can to push him out the door, they have not backed him financially, they have undermined him many times РThis is not an untrue clich̩, its a crystal clear fact that is blatantly obvious to everybody other than you and Stan Collymore.</span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span>How do you know the offers were more lucrative? Did you have access to the employment contracts each club offered Benitez?</span>
    </p><p><span>Jamie... How do you know the offers were not more lucrative? Do you have access to the employment contracts each club offered Benitez? Thought not... Lets face it Jamie, Real Madrid would have offered Rafa more money – I don't have access to any contracts or anything like that, but it doesn't take a genius to suspect that they would have put more money on the table - because they always do.</span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span>Poor Rafa. Let’s all get our violins out because a highly-paid manager has to endure five years at the helm of the most successful British football club of all time. He SHOULD be putting his heart and soul into the job; that is the [...]

    ReplyDelete
  65. PART 2

     <span><span>The myth that Benitez has not had the ‘resources’ is completely inaccurate:
    </span></span><span><span>It is not a myth Jamie its a FACT. You have not included money recouped on players he sold either, which will reduce that figure considerably....</span></span>

    <p> 

    </p><p><span>We sold Alonso for £30M, We sold Arbeloa for £3M, We sold Leto for £1.3</span>

    </p><p><span>We bought Aquilani for £20M, We bought Johnson for £16M (but as Portsmouth owed us £6M on the Crouch deal, in real terms we had to pay £10M )</span>

    </p><p><span>Money recouped from player transfers and wages IS SUPPOSED to go back into the transfer kitty, in addition to the existing budget – not form the entire budget?!! (YET ANOTHER LIE BY THE OWNERS I MIGHT ADD). We wont mention the money we got back for Robbie Keane (A player Rick Parry decided to buy off his own back, not Rafa) but we can assume that money went back into the pot – the RBS loan repayment pot that is. </span> 

    </p><p><span>SO how much did our owners invest into new players this season then? I don't hold a degree in applied mathematics, but then again it doesn't take Einstein to work out that this transfer window our owners forked out a staggering net spend of .................£0.00.   So instead of investing in the team – at a time when were soooooo close to winning the league all that actually happened is we paid off £60M on interest (not on actually reducing the debt – just the interest) for the bank loans that our owners promised they would never take out against the club. How you haven't figured this out for yourself is beyond me Jamie. It is clear that Rafa has not had the resources at his disposal.</span>
    </p><p>
    <span><span>What is your point? It’s Benitez’s job to master the language! That’s what he is paid for. I suppose we should give Benitez credit for driving from his house to Anfield every day too?!
    </span></span><span><span>?? A ridiculous point Jamie. The Fact that Rafa has learnt the language is to his credit, not something for you to use against him. How's your Spanish getting on anyway Jamie?</span></span>
    </p><p> </p>

    ReplyDelete
  66. PART 3

    <span>You conveniently gloss over the fact that Benitez has had problems with the Boards/Directors at many of the clubs he’s managed. He was dismissed abruptly by both Osasuna and Real Valladolid; he had well documented problems with the Valencia board, and now he’s had major problems with the Liverpool Board. It takes two to tango, and Benitez is not blameless in these situations.</span>
    <p><span>Yes he has got problems with the Liverpool board, but so have I, and so has every Liverpool fan. On this occasion though it takes three to tango. The fact he was dismissed abruptly by both Osasuna and Real Valladolid is clearly a massive error on their part, and as discussed earlier the supporters of Valencia have never forgiven their board, just like we wont forgive ours if the same thing happens again.</span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span>Nonsense. Where is the evidence that Benitez was ‘told’ he couldn’t sign any of the above players? Benitez had LOTS of money to spend; he has just spent a lot of it unwisely. As an example: Benitez didn’t need to spend 55m+ on Babel, Dossena, Riera, Keane, Morientes and Lucas; HE chose those players. That money could’ve been spent on better players, but it was usually the case that by the time he had bought the dross, there wasn’t enough money left to buy the likes of Simao (thank god).</span>
    </p><p><span>The reason he signed half of these players Jamie is because he was unable to sign his first choice targets. Keane was not his signing anyway, it was Rick Parry (Rafa wanted Barry). Babel hasn't delivered, yet – but Arsene Wenger wanted him as well as I remember, does that mean Wenger doesn't know what he's doing either? I actually like Riera – but he wanted Silva. Dossena I will give you – but he was first choice Italian full back, and in my opinion Lucas (who was captain of the Brazil under 20's, now a full international) is a good player who gets way too much stick because he's not Alonso</span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span><span>"</span></span><span><span>We attempted to negotiate an option as an insurance policy... if Rafa left for Real Madrid or other clubs rumoured”.</span></span><span><span>

    This is a perfectly reasonable explanation, and if it had come from Kenny Dalglish (if he was the owner), Liverpool fans would’ve accepted.
    </span></span>
    <span>Jamie, its up to you what you believe... but I, along with the vast majority of Liverpool supporters know that these two clowns lie through their teeth when it suites them. It is a prime example of Rafa has had to put with. It is the measure of the man that he has not walked already. They are not, and never will be Kenny Dalglish, a man who has LFC heritage in his blood, is arguably the greatest player in our history and who loves the club for all the right reasons – they are greedy, all they can see is $ signs, but don't have access to the resources needed to take the club to the next level. We are a FRANCHISE to them, not a proud football club, WHY ARENT YOU GETTING THIS JAMIE?  Comparing our owners with Sir Kenny is just RIDCULOUS. Its like comparing Mother Teresa with Poll Pot. There is not one valid point about your entire paragraph, and that sentence was the icing on the cake. </span></p>

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  67. PART 4

    <p><span>I love the selective history here. Yes, he signed those players but Alonso left because he was alienated by Benitez; Mascherano wants to leave for the same reason; Sissoko had to leave because Benitez lost faith in him and created unfair competition in central midfield; Crouch left because he was mistreated and regularly dumped on the bench DESPITE having a superb creative ration from starts; Benayoun is another player who has been messed about by Benitez; Arbeloa left after one season; Agger is always injured.</span>
    <span>Utter nonsense – Mascherano wanted to leave because it was Barcelona who wanted to buy him. BUT he agreed to stay as it was Rafa who saved him from his nightmare at West Ham and has publicly acknowledged his debt of gratitude to Rafa for this. Sissoko started well, but faded badly after his eye injury, and wasn't good enough to get in the side ahead of Mascherano, and was sold for a profit. Crouch was never going to get in ahead of Torres, and wanted to start every game so he left -Rafa didn't want to sell him in the first place and is now on the Tottenham bench instead of the Liverpool bench. Benayoun has publicly stated that he wont be leaving Liverpool. Arbeloa joined Madrid – he's Spanish that's fair enough, and would have walked for free. Agger is a quality defender, the fact he's injured has nothing to do with Rafa – he's a coach not a Doctor.</span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span><span>The so-called ‘poor squad’ you speak of included the likes of Gerrard, Carragher, Hyypia, Henchoz, Finnan, Riise, Hamann, Dudek, Baros and Kewell, all of whom played their part in that CL triumph. The squad was NOT poor – that is a myth.</span></span><span><span>
    It was an average squad that couldn't finish higher than 4</span></span><span><span><sup>th</sup></span></span><span><span> in the Premier League. Love the way you conveniently forget to mention </span></span><span><span>Biscan</span></span><span><span>, </span></span><span><span>Traor̩, Le Tallac, ,Diao, Cisse, Mellor, Whitbread, Partridge. </span></span><span><span><span>Love the way that all of a sudden Baros and Kewell are world beaters Рno doubt had Rafa signed these 2, you would have used it against him!! Love the way you won't acknowledge that it was Rafa who turned Carragher from a utility squad player into a world class centre back. Oh and we did win the Champions league didn't we Рwhen Rafa was the manager..... and your point is?</span></span></span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span><span>Fifth in the league - what an achievement. 58 points - 37 points off the top! Even Graeme Souness never managed a points total that low. The 2004-5 league season was a disgrace, and had nothing to do with Houllier’s allegedly ‘poor’ squad. Benitez prioritized the CL and made all the mistakes he’s STILL making today with regards to team selection, formation and general stubbornness.</span></span><span><span>
    </span></span><span><span><span>Houllier's squad was poor (see above). I love the way you declare.... [...]

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  68. Part 5 
    <p><span><span></span></span>
    </p><p><span><span>Fifth in the league - what an achievement. 58 points - 37 points off the top! Even Graeme Souness never managed a points total that low. The 2004-5 league season was a disgrace, and had nothing to do with Houllier’s allegedly ‘poor’ squad. Benitez prioritized the CL and made all the mistakes he’s STILL making today with regards to team selection, formation and general stubbornness.</span></span><span><span>
    </span></span><span><span><span>Houllier's squad was poor (see above). I love the way you declare.... “</span></span></span><span><span>Benitez prioritized the CL and made all the mistakes he’s STILL making today with regards to team selection, formation and general stubbornness</span></span><span><span>” </span></span><span><span><span>AND THEN WENT ON TO WIN IT.... AGAINST THE ODDS, WITH AN AVERAGE SQUAD. </span></span></span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span>And your point is what, exactly? Bob Paisley came 2nd in his first season (75-75) and won the League and Uefa Cup in his second full season. Thus, he is in the same boat as Benitez: two seasons, two major trophies. The difference with Paisley is it didn’t stop there and go downhill; things got better and better</span>
    </p><p><span>I don't think that is fair comparison. Football has changed, its no longer about the boot room philosophy, its about who can spend the most money on transfers and wages. SIR Bob Paisley (in my opinion) is Liverpool's greatest ever manager, but he inherited a team of champions, 4 or 5 of the clubs greatest ever players. Rafa inherited Steven Gerrard. Sir Bob didn't have to worry about the likes of Man City, Chelsea and United having unlimited transfer budgets. The best players in England always used want to play for Liverpool because of our heritage, and for the most part they still will do, as long we pay £120K per week, otherwise they will go and play for Man City.</span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span>That final was winnable and should’ve been won. As usual, Benitez’s illogical decisions and downright pig-headed stubbornness conspired to defeat Liverpool.</span>
    </p><p><span><span>We played Milan off the park, we were by far the better team and should have won. In my opinion this is because Rafa played the correct system, although I take on board your comment about Zenden who had a poor game. To be fair Jamie it was a deflected free kick against the run of play that conspired to beat us that night, not Rafa's tactics It was also the 2</span></span><span><span><sup>nd</sup></span></span><span><span> CL final he had let us to in 3 years? I can't understand why you think he's done such a terrible job??</span></span>
    </p><p> </p>

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  69. FINAL PART

    <span>Yes, it was a poor year, and Benitez is responsible for the poor league position. The Klinnsman incident had nothing to do with it. Furthermore, Benitez brought that situation on himself, as I argued above.
    Finally, there is no proof that the job was ‘offered’ to Klinnsman; the owners met with him and discussed the option. If there is evidence that the job was offered to him, please provide it.
    </span>
    <p><span><span>Your proof..... TOM HICKS (trying to dig himself out of a hole) </span></span><span><span>"We attempted to negotiate an option as an insurance policy... if Rafa left for Real Madrid or other clubs rumoured”. </span></span><span><span><span>(BIG FAT LIE). As you used this example earlier in your article as justification for their actions, I cant really understand how you could forget so quickly? </span></span></span><span><span>
    Rafa bought it on himself? I put it you that it was the owners who created the situation and they wanted Rafa to carry the can. The Klinnsman incident was only part of the story, Tom & George were openly at war, they back tracked on the transfer budget available to Rafa, the stadium plans were put on the back burner, it all was going wrong Upstairs and it manifested itself on the playing field – A BIT LIKE NOW REALLY</span></span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span><span>The difference is Paisley won 19 trophies in 9 years, including 6 league titles and 3 European Cups. His win ratio actually yielded RESULTS. A good win ratio is irrelevant if the league is never won. I guess you’d be happy if Benitez stayed for 10 more years and retained the same win ration but never won another trophy?!</span></span><span><span>
    I have already talked about the reasons why I don t think it is fair to compare the two, but your comment about Rafa not winning anything for 10 years was a bit childish</span></span>
    </p><p><span>The difference here is that Wenger has EARNED the right to have trophyless seasons. He has won the premiership THREE TIMES. His team plays exciting football, similar to the way Liverpool used to play. The comparison is ridiculous; if Benitez had won three titles then I (and others) would be behind him all the way.</span>
    </p><p><span>The theory behind your argument as a whole means that Wenger should have been sacked 2 seasons ago. We all know that would be ridiculous because he is a class act and you are right to point out he has earned the the right to be given time. But I cant understand why you feel Rafa hasn't? Since Rafa has been at Liverpool Wenger has not won a trophy – Rafa has won everything other than the league – but as discussed earlier this is down to the owners who haven't backed him in the transfer market</span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span>In conclusion Jamie, I get the feeling that you are the unofficial (or secretly the official) mouth piece for our owners. Your article is like a press release on behalf of Tom Hicks, trying to stick the knife in and shift the blame, and it actually makes uncomfortable reading. I can't understand how you can see it so differently from the rest of us?</span>
    </p><p> 
    </p><p><span>We wont win the league until we get proper owners that have the resources to take us to the next level. [...]

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  70. Steve

    Thank you for taking the time post such a detailed response to my points. I appreciate your ability to debate in the right way.  I disagree with many of your points (like you with mine), and will respond in full tomorrow.

    For now though, I'd just like to address the 'mouthpiece for the owners' comment.  That is just nonsense, and anyone who reads this site regularly will know that.  I have posted many critical articles about Hicks and Gillett; the idea that anyone who is not on the 'Hicks and Gillett are evil and must be destroyed!' bandwagon is actually in league with them (!) is pretty ridiculous.

    Anyway, thanks again and I will respond tomorrow.

    JK

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  71. No bile - truth. And you can't handle it, obviously. For the record I have never publicly slagged you off - bending the truth again there. But if you can't offer a right to reply and you're going to run your site like a dictatorship, maybe i'll do just that.

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  72. That was the best article I've read about the whole situation

    I can't understand how you can be criticised as a fan for wanting whats best for the club after all thats all that matters

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  73. I think your article is bollocks. You're solution to Rafa's five-year-plan taking longer than five years is a new manager who will want another five years and start from scratch, bring in hios own players etc. With no money. Or maybe the money he gets from selling Torres (and possibly Gerrard).

    Marco van Basten got Holland to the last 16 in the WC so he's a great manager? That's ridiculous. I could get Holland to the last 16.

    You are anti-Benitez. You are self-important. You are clueless.
    You would rather Rafa failed so you can say I told you so. And in two or three seasons you'll be saying the same about the next manager.

    Those on the  This is Anfield site are not blind followers. They just aren't knee-jerkers like yourself and the your blind followers.
    Everyone is worried, but clubs without patience don't succeed.

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  74. Steve Pike - great rebuttal to JK's article - which I think is poor. Frankly JK, I believe you are not a true supporter. I'll tell you why: you would rather be right than Liverpool be successful.

    And another thing: you said elsewhere that net spend is irrelevant that spending wisely is what's important. You would certainly argue that Arsene Wenger has spent wisely, and his net spend in recent years is close to zero. The question is what have Arsenal won in recent years?
    Chelsea and ManU spend - they win trophies.

    I would appreciate a repsonse to this.
    Thanks

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  75. Don't think there's any more proof needed that the Internet can be a dangerous thing than the utter shite that Kanwar peddles. Even after a depressing run of results culminating in last nights abject performance against Lyon, it still amazes me how someone can spout so much bile about a club they claim to care for or support. Blind faith seems to be countered here by an abject hatred of Benitez. Damo hits the nail on the head in that spending the money you have wisely is the key, especially when your mistakes can't be mitigated by having the financial clout to correct them. Benitez may have plenty of faults (to listen to the author you'd think he'd spent the last 20 years married to Rafa) but to be a success in football you need to be single minded and obsessive. Perhaps if the players and manager adopt the kind of seige mentality that used to engulf and consume Ferguson then we can get out of this mess and start putting a decent run together...because that's all we need. This bad run of form won't last forever but we might need to be realistic and accept that the season may not deliver what everyone expected.

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  76. What a laughably bad, bitter "article".

    Sissoko left because Rafa 'created unfair competition in central midfield' did he? :-D

    What is unfair about tough competition for places? It's the basis of building a better side. The competition was no more unfair on Sissoko than it was on any of the other midfielders; either at Liverpool or any other club on the planet.

    Mascherano doesn't want to leave because he's been "alienated" - you tell me how Rafa has been anything other than massively supportive of him. He wants/wanted to leave because he's had his head turned by Barcelona - simple as.

    But don't let the facts get in the way of a shit-for-brains rant eh? This is the irrational, infantile sort of crap I expect to hear on the 606 phone-in, not a fan blog.

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  77. Net spend is irrelevant is it?

    By that logic, if you have a £20m star player, it makes no difference whether you buy another £20m footballer to play alongside him or are forced to sell him in order to buy another player of equal value.

    If you sincerely believe what you're saying, you might want to book an appointment with a psychiatrist.

    It's also funny how, if spending doesn't equal success, that Chelsea never won anything before Abramovic and his millions arrived. It's also a strange coincidence that Man Utd are more successful than, for example, Torquay United. Must just be poor management at Torquay United eh? :-D

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  78. Great response Jamie....

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  79. I have a very busy job in real life.  Sometimes I have to prioritise.  I will respond when I have time to properly consider your points.  That's the good thing about threads like this - they can returned to; they're not time-sensitive.

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  80. I will only get behind Rafa to push him from the back out of End-field.
    After losing Gerard and Torres, the team suddenly can't play because its only made up of 2 good players?
    This after Rafa brought in 67 new players during his term!? !
    Listen to me guys, cut off Rafa and bring back Kenny Dalglish. U will see the immediate difference

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  81. Real fans care which is why they're critical. To accept something for the sake of it is drone-like and moronic. This is the problem with most football fans, they accept mediocrity, repetitive mistakes and downright incompetence regardless and think that anyone who disagrees is wrong as they have only read what they want to read, call opposing fans childish and brainless when they display schadenfreude at their club's plight while when the tables are turned do the exact same with the justification that it was done to them.
    Real fans criticise witrh dignity and look long-term, not just knee-jerk and they have seen that Liverpool's problem has been there for a while with little or no reaction to this problem as results were good(to a point) and criticise accordingly. They are interested in the well-being of the club, not just bragging rights.

    To get to the point, Benitez HAS spent as much money as Man U, Chelsea, Man City, etc. but it's the return on this investment which has been lacking. Compare what other clubs have bought and what these players have done and you get to see a more rounded picture of success and /or failure. Liverpool have gone backwards as they are more like Villa and to a lesser extent Spurs and Man City:if 2-3 good players are out, they flounder.

    Benitez has had 5 years to address this situation. He hasn't.
    Ferguson had time to address the problems of ManU at the time, he has since done so. If ManU make a bad signing, it doesn't really affect them as the squad is still relatively strong, Chelsea the same. Liverpool?...

    This is what Jaimie and the other real fans are criticising. Inability to see this is disappointing.

    This from a ManU fan.

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  82. Did you not hear most Arsenal supporters last season saying "Wenger has to go if he doesn't open up the puse strings"? My word, they were almost queueing up to bury him. Oddly enough, they're relatively quiet this year, so far...

    Fans don't have to come up with alternatives, owners do. Fans highlight what's wrong and express their feelings. Back to you, then. What are the alternatives?

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  83. shows me what you know,what an arse

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  84. I support Manchester United.

    That said, I understand that blind faith affects many clubs. While I feel a slight sympathy for you Jamie, I have to be honest and admit that I hope the blind faith among some Liverpool fans continue for a long, long time.

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  85. ....?  Has Jamie Kanwar been silenced?

    Im honoured

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