18 Aug 2009

£1.5m left to spend? Rafa Benitez only has himself to blame

According to reports, Liverpool FC allegedly has only £1.5m to spend for the remainder of the current transfer window. Predictably, Tom Hicks and George Gillett are being demonised over this issue and Rafa Benitez is being painted as the blameless victim whose hands are tied due to lack of funds. Poor Rafa, right? Wrong. In my view, Benitez’s questionable performance in the transfer market is the reason for Liverpool’s current squad predicament.

Whether the reports of £1.5m are true or not, the figure is irrelevant – in the last two summer transfer windows, Benitez has spent £73.5, a not inconsiderable amount of money. If this money had been spent wisely, the Liverpool squad would not be so lacking in depth and quality at the moment.

So - how much of that £73.5m was well spent?

£20m - Robbie Keane
£20m – Alberto Aquilani
£17m - Glen Johnson
£8m – Albert Riera
£7m - Andrea Dossena
£1.5m - David N’gog

With the exception of Albert Riera, I submit that Benitez has, for the most part, misused the transfer funds allocated to him over the last 2 years.

What we recouped in sales makes no difference at all to the quality of player Benitez decides to buy. For example, Benitez bought Keane for 20m then recouped money on him 6 months later. What possible difference does the money recouped by Keane's sale AFTER THE FACT make to the initial purchase?! NONE. What matters here is what Benitez did with the money that WAS available.

Keane and Dossena

Whatever way you look at it, the £27m spent on Keane and Dossena was completely wasted. What impact has either player had on the team? None.

Dossena struggled to hold down a first team place and Keane was dumped after 6 months after being mismanaged by Benitez.

Glen Johnson

Was it really necessary to spend £17m on Glen Johnson? Was right-back such a pressing problem that such a huge amount of money needed to be expended?

People go on about Johnson’s attacking prowess – well, in the last 7 years he has scraped together a mere 17 assists in 171 competitive games, an average of 1 every 10 games. Is this worth £17m?

Would it have been so fatal to keep Alvaro Arbeloa and spend the £17m on a more pressing area of the team, i.e. a proper replacement for Sami Hyypia or a decent wide-player?

Better still, why not just keep Hyypia and Arbeloa – both part of a team that finished with the highest league points total for 20 years - and spend the £17m on a decent attacking player.

Benitez admitted he paid over the odds for Johnson; well, why would he not pay over the odds for Andrei Arshavin, who Arsenal snapped up for £12m? It sickens me that Liverpool again failed to pull out all the stops to sign a proven creative player, yet the club is willing to spend big bucks on defensive-minded players like Johnson and Javier Mascherano.

Albert Riera

Of all the above signings, I would say Riera is the only one who represents true value for money. His first season was arguably pretty good, though a little inconsistent; we still need someone more effective on the left but Riera is a good player to have in the squad.

Having said that, he was not in the squad for the Spurs defeat, which begs the question what is the point of having him if he's not going to be utilised properly?

Alberto Aquilani


Was it really a wise decision to spend 20m on a player who has been consistently injured over the last 3 years and will not kick a ball until October at the earliest?

I do not doubt that Aquilani is a good player, but in order to build on last season, Liverpool need to hit ground running – this means having the strongest squad possible available from the first game of the season.

This has not happened. Benitez’s failure to properly fill the gaping void left by Xabi Alonso means that Liverpool’s first team is *at this stage* significantly weaker than it was last season. If Aquilani was available from the very start then the loss of Alonso may have been mitigated, but this is not the case.

I personally believe that Benitez’s decision to buy Aquilani and not some other midfielder who could go straight into the team is –and will prove to be – a fatal mistake.

With the above in mind, I submit that Benitez has wasted £64m over the last two seasons. Just imagine what might have been if:
  • The £27m spent on Keane and Dossena had been used to buy effective players. Examples: Arshavin for £20m last summer instead of Keane or for £12m in January 2009/Alexander Hleb for 12m from Arsenal last summer. I’m sure there are lots of other possibilities. Just imagine another player in the team who could have a similar impact to Fernando Torres. For £27m, I'm sure Liverpool could've found such a player.

  • The £20m spent on Aquilani had been used to buy a quality midfielder who was not injured and could play from day 1 of the season. Lucas tries his best but he is not on the level of Xabi Alonso. By the time Aquilani is actually playing and up to speed in the premiership, the league could already be lost.

  • Liverpool had kept Arbeloa and Hyypia and spent the Johnson 17m on an attacking player. One immediate benefit of this would be that the central defence crisis being experienced now would be a non-issue.

I’ll go one step further – if Benitez had not treated Xabi Alonso so badly then it’s conceivable he would have stayed this summer, therefore there would be no need to spend 20m on Aquilani, and the Liverpool team that did so well last season could continue to grow.

All roads lead back to Benitez – he is responsible for wasting/misuing so much money and leaving himself with nothing to further bolster the squad, which incidentally only needs bolstering because of his ineffective signings and lack of foresight.

And let’s not forget, it is Benitez who has filled the squad with ineffective players such as Ryan Babel (£11m), Andrei Voronin, Lucas Leiva and Philip Degen.

I want Hicks and Gillett out of the club like everyone else, but they do not identify/sign the players and shape the team. Furthermore, it's not as if Benitez has not been given money to spend; he has been!

And yes, Benitez has recouped money for players and (perhaps) should have been given the proceeds to bolster the squad, but the question is would he have spent the money wisely?

Based on the last two seasons, I don’t think so.

The bottom line is Benitez has spent 70m+ over the last two seasons and Liverpool FC has next to nothing to show for it.

NB: I've banned 23 people from commenting in the last hour. If you insist on hurling insults and derogatory comments you will be banned! Those that want to debate the issues are most welcome :-)


178 comments:

  1. Will it cost him his job ?

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  2. The last two summers have arguably been a disaster when it comes to improving the strength of the squad.  If Aquilani proves to be a failure then I think it could cost benitez his job, yes.

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  3. Jamie

    Go and support the Bitters, you are a total disgrace to Liverpool F. C

    Red Alert

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  4. Both Hyypia and Arbeloa wanted to leave and as Lescott proved over the weekend if you keep a player who doesnt want to stick around it could be alot worse.

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  5. This article is a bit lame, to say the least.You suggest that it was unwise to let Hyypia and Arbeloa go and that we should have kept them. Both players were offered new contracts which they refused to sign. Hyypia thinks he will get more games at Leverkusen (he may be damn right about that) and Arbeloa would have been able to leave for nothing in a years time as his contract was running down. So, that leaves your suggestion hanging in mid-air.

    Then Aquilani. Well, right, he is not available now, but as has been stated (by Rafa I think) he's not here for five matches but for five years.

    Yes, money was wasted on Keane and Dossena, but please tell me one manager who gets all his transfers right. That's part and parcel of transfers. You can scout a player as much as you want, but whether he adapts to live in a new country or playing in a different league/team/system you can't really tell before you've tried it. Anyway, Dossena offers more as a left-winger than Babel, which is not very difficult though.

    Rafa had to go for his second choices too often. I can hardly believe that he is still here. He must be really fed up by now.

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  6. Roma submitted the breakdown of the Aquilani deal to their stock exchange & it shows we paid 5 million euros for him rising to 20 million euros scattered over a 5 year payment period. Where did you get 20 million pounds from?

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  7. You have totally missed the point with this article - you claim that the squad only needs tweaking and it is a squad that performed so well last season - who may I ask built this squad?? You want Rafa to sign a player who could have the same impact as torres, who signed torres when people were claiming he wasn't clinical enough?? oh and arbeloa and hyypia were both offered new contracts and chose not to take them.

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  8. The 20 million EURO transfer fee is broken up into the following:

    - 4 cash instalments of
    - - 5 million EURO upfront
    - - 3 million EURO by 4th January 2010
    - - 7 million EURO by June 30th 2010
    - - 5 million EURO by June 30th 2011.

    Further Add ons include:

    - 300,000 EURO for every year Liverpool qualify for the Champions League from 2010/11 to 2014/15

    - 250,000 EURO everytime the player reaches 35 appearancs, 70 appearances, 105 appeances and then 140 appearances.

    - 1 million EURO the first time Liverpool either wins the Premier League or Champions League by 30 June 2014.

    - 5% of any future transfer fee will be paid to Roma.


    20m Euros + potential add-ons = 20m pounds

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  9. If you take away the money we have received for players going out, including Keane, Riise, Arbeloa, Alonso and whoever else we really haven't spent that much in the last two years.  Although I agree that Babel, Leiva, Voronin and Degen are not good enough players, Voronin was a free, which we are looking to profit on.  Babel and Lucas looked like good gambles at the time which haven't yet paid off..

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  10. Hyypia only wanted to leave because benitez basically told him he would be getting even fewer games than he was used to.  Given the constant injuries to Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio and Degen, giving Hyypia this impression was wrong. If he'd stayed, he would have played quite a lot this season, I'm sure.

    As for Arbeloa - since when did he want to leave?  He was forced to leave because benitez wanted to sell him.

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  11. get your facts right. benites wasnot incharge of trnasfers. it was rick parry. rafa did not want keane but had to get him cause there was no other option available to him. the board refused to splash out £15m for barry but were ready to spend £20m keane. dossena is in the national team starting xi and you are talking about the reigning worl champions....

    you only had to look at how much money tottenham have spent and the squad looks much stronger.

    and for your kind information £70 is the gross spent not the net spent, remove the £30m recouped from alonso £7 recouped from crouch £14 recouped from keane £3.5m recouped from arbeloa

    this sqaud of players is much stonger then what houlier left behind for benitez to work with. the owners are to blame. all of rafas buys this summer have been recouped by the sale of alonso and arbeloa so what have the owners given in the transfer kitty?????? the only club not feeling the pressue is arsenal and thats because they have a world class youth recruitment system in place for years....

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  12. Really?  Why is that then.  Care to expand :-)

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  13. Anyone who ignores what has been reclaimed through sales (some forced) entirely misunderstands the financial realities of running a football club and renders any attempted analysis as worthless.

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  14. Another person who actualy believes that Parry was in charge of transfers and signed Keane! 

    You've just regurgitated the same cliches being spouted by the media/brainwashed Liverpool fans for the last 2 years.

    And the difference between gross and net is irrelevant - when benitez had cash in in his hands to spend he didn't spent it wisely.

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  15. The last sentence is clearly untrue and a big leap from the original premise. He does have something to show for it: namely the players discussed above. Riera is not bad, judgement is still out on Aquilani, Johnson was a good and necessary buy, though a little over priced, and Keane...Well Keane was never RB's first target. He wanted Barry and they should have given him the money. Dossena might seriously improve yet and he seems a confident character.

    There are also out and out successes: Torres, Kuyt, Alonso, Garcia, Arbeloa, Benayoun, Mascherano, Agger, Skrtel, Reina. Personally, I think the club should have dug its heels in more over Alonso and said he was on contract and not leaving. Some say Liverpool would have been left with a disenchated player on their hands--but with the World Cup coming up next year, Alonso would suely have buckled down again.

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  16. Nonsense.  What difference does recouped money make when it comes to actually deciding to pay X amount for a player?  Recouped cash had nothing to do with the purchase of Keane or Dossena.  Benitez identified the players and bought them.

    It's good to make money back but spending the money you do have wisely is more important.

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  17. I read till "what he recouped is irrelevant"! Haha, are you paid to write this?

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  18. Explain the casual link between what benitez recouped and the players he has bought?  Exlain why it makes such a difference.

    Benitez recouped money AFTER spending 20m on Keane.  How did the money recouped after the fact have an influence on the initial purchase?!

    There seems to be this obsession with comparing money recouped against transfer outlay, but why?  Do you just regurgitate it because the media focuses on this?

    Instead of just asserting that money recouped is important, explain why. 

    Is it more important to make money on sales or buy the right players in the first place?!

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  19. I don't really agree, Benitez was supposed to have £20m to spend this summer, plus the money we got back for Robbie Keane and plus any money raised by player sales. Benitez has improved our squad beyond all recognition for an average yearly outlay of £18m.

    Sadly this year we are left with an outlay of MINUS £7m, I think you under-estimate how good Rafa is and also how difficult it is to get every signing right. When big money has been spent, Rafa has got it right more often than not, but he has been absolutely conned this year by the owners. Something all of us are becoming depressingly familiar with.

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  20. Arsene Wenger gets his transfers right. 

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  21. In terms of measurable impact on the team's success, Liverpool have next to nothing to show for the last 2 summers' cash outlay.

    Yes, there have been successes, but Benitez has not built upon those successes.

    And if Benitez had not so shameless tried to sell Alonso last season (which was tantamount to a public vote of no-confidence) then chances are Alonso would have been happy to stay.

    You have to question why both Alonso and Mascherano would *want* to leave Liverpool, who finished 2nd in the league and are always playing CL football.

    The reason is Benitez - he alienated them both and consequently, they wanted to leave.

    You talke about disenchanted players - what about Mascherano.  He wanted to leave and Benitez admitted publicly that he was 'dsappointed' not to get a move.  Chances are, he is disenchanted right now.

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  22. So according to that, we've only paid Roma 5mil. Not exactly the entire amount of 20 mil that ammounted to the total of 70mil that you claim Rafa has already spent right ?

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  23. The money still needs to be paid, doesn't it?  Whether it's now or next year, the total amount will have to be paid.

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  24. Whilst I agree that Rafa has made a couple of bad buys, but this can be said of all the top managers. I firmly believe that we have a better sqaud of players now, than we had when Rafa joined us. We have also had a limited budget when compared with Chelsea and Manchester United and Chelsea. It has always been a bit of a sell to spend policy for Rafa.

    The worst thing for me is that in truth Rafa hasn't had a transfer budget this season. Player sales equate to about £40m (roughly, I haven't got my calculator out) and purchases work out to be about £35m. Which gives Rafa a budget of -£5m. Very dissapointing considering how close we came last year.

    Until we offload the yanks we will not compete.

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  25. I like the fact you like to start debates and discussions but I generally seem to find that they're all negatively one-sided.  Would it not hurt you just to come out and say that you don't like Benitez, that's really the underlying theme I sense in your writing.

    Hyypia was offered the chance to stay but chose to go as did Alonso.

    How can you say anything about this summer's recruits? Knocking them before they've even started. 

    Yes, there are signings that didn't work.  It happens.  If, like you suggest, almost entirely flops, how come we came so close to winning it last season.  Lost only 2 league games all season, highest points tally since 1988 and the top scorers in the division.  If they were all flops then what does it suggest about the rest of the EPL.

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  26. Jim - I take your point, but even if Rafa hasn't been given all the money from player sales, he HAS had 30m+ to spend.  Has he spent this money in the best way?

    And the same goes for last season - he spent 35m; was this spent in the right way.

    For me, how the *available* money is spent is the real issue here.

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  27. if you count Aquilani as 20m including add ons, then keane was sold for 16m including add ons, so in fact only cost 3m.

    Alonso was bought for 10m and sold for 30, Benitez earned the club 20m, so aquilani was essentially paid for by rafa

    what would torres fetch in the transfer window now? 60m, theres another potential 40m earned

    who took a chance on mascherano while at west ham, thats right, rafa

    who signed reina, one of the finest keepers in the world for 6m, compared to gomez 10m and gordon 9m, you guessed it rafa.

    rafa got skrtel, agger, aurelio, dossena, insua, reina, cavalieri, degan. for roughly 1m less than what united paid for ferdinand

    teams have spent more than benitez (add up the cost of the CURRENT spurs team) without getting into the champions league year in year out.

    Rafas net spend over the last two summers is about 8m, how much is Evertons?

    sorry for ranting but this argument needed perspective

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  28. Carl

    My opinion - like yours - has validity; people just don't want to accept it because it doesn't conform to the majority view.

    Hyypia didn't stay because benitez basically told him he wouldn't play.  A mistake in my view, especially considering how our defenders are injury prone.

    re the summer recruits - just because they're news doesn't mean we can't analyse their potential effectiveness.

    I haven't said anything negative about either players' ability - I have merely question the wisdom of spending so much money.

    Aquilani is injured until at least October.  Answer the question: was it wise to spend big bucks on someone who will not be available until 2 months into the season, especially when one of our most impotant players needs replacing NOW.  By october, the league could already be lost.

    Was our right back 'problem' so severe that 17m needed to be spent?  If Arbeloa was kept, would this be fatal to our title ambitions?  I think not.

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  29. Once again - What is the relevance of how much we get for players in sales?!  Is someone going to answer this question or are you all just going to keep stating that money recouped the most important thing?!

    Money recouped in sales doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to the quality of player that Benitez buys.  If it does, explain how.

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  30. Once again - What is the relevance of how much we get for players in sales?!  Is someone going to answer this question or are you all just going to keep stating that money recouped the most important thing?!

    Money recouped in sales doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to the quality of player that Benitez buys.  If it does, explain how.

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  31. But only 5mil has been paid, not 20mil as you claiming. If its all the same then why the need to pay in multiple installments ? Theres a reason why it was broken down in such way, and that was so we didnt have to pay the entire amount right away. I think transfer dealings are a lot more complicated than just looking at the big figure and making simplistic analysis out of it.

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  32. pls talk about manu and chelsea failed transfers within the last 2 years and see hw far...
    MAN u...Nani, anderson, berbatov, owen hargreaves, united sold guiseppe rossi for just 6M..now he is worth 25M.....
    Chelsea.....they are too much and we all know them...shevy, pizaro, deco,...

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  33. While i will agree that last seasons transfer window was disapointing, the team as a whole still improved from it.

    And it is totally ridiculous, even by your standards, to claim that the money spent on Johnson and Aquilani is wasted money.  Arbeloa was leaving this summer, nothing could stop that although £17m is a lot of money, it will look like a bargain if he is the difference between winning the league and not.

    As for Aquilani...he hasnt kicked a ball for Liverpool Football Club yet!! It's crazy for anyone to judge him, if he is quality then it does not matter if he is out for a few weeks, would you suggest selling Gerrard or Torres if they pick up a knock and using the money to buy someone who can come straight into the team?

    I agree to an extent that last summer was disapointing, but to pass judgement on what has happened over the last few months ONE game into the season is totally ludicrous.

    I do not know how the money Rafa spent this summer will work out, no one does.  It could turn out to be a fantastic use of funds, or a total waste...but please wait until passing judgement.

    This article will look incredibly foolish if Liverpool go on to achieve this season and Johnson and Aquilani play a big part in that...

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  34. Oh and you're the only Liverpool fan who sees sense, who's not brainwashed. I completely disagree with this article. I suppose I'm brainwashed too.  

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  35. Because Jaimie transfer dealings involve both selling and buying. You're only covering one aspect of it which is very lobsided and not seeing the bigger picture. Part of Rafa's purchase power is his abilty to raise cash from the players he sells. You suggesting that all this purchasing money comes from some vault somewhere which is not all that accurate is it ? If you insist on saying its all about paying and not buying then why stop at 70mil ? Im sure he has paid more than that since he came here.

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  36. <span style="color: #000000;">http://www.sportspromedia.com/notes_...lion_windfall/</span>
    Liverpool received $52 million dollars on the 5th of August for last seasons Champions League run - equating to 31.5 million sterling...then add the money from the seasons before Champions League. It must equate close to the 70 million you are quoting. Half of the transfer deals due to the complexity of them at such clubs like Liverpool who do not have the backing bottomless pit of money going around at the Bridge and the Eastlands. Transfers In (2008-2009)
    Martin Skrtel
    <td> </td>
    <td> </td>
    £6,500,000
    Javier Mascherano 
    <td> </td>
    £17,000,000
    <td> </td>

    Philipp Degen
    <td> </td>
    <td> </td>
     Free
    Andrea Dossena 
    <td> </td>
    £7,000,000
    <td> </td>
    <td> </td>

    Diego Cavalieri 
    <td> </td>
    £3,500,000
    <td> </td>
    <td> </td>

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  37. David Ngog 
    <td> </td>
    £1,500,000
    Robbie Keane 19,000,000 
    Albert Riera 
    <td> </td>
    £8,000,000 
    Glen Johnson 
    <td> </td>
    £17,500,000
    Alberto Aquilani
    <td> </td>
    £17,100,000
    Daniel Ayala
    <td> </td>
    <td> </td>
     Undisclosed
    Transfers in: 97.1 million was spent.

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  38. Transfers Out:
    Mohamed Sissoko £8,200,000
    Lee Peltier Free
    John Arne Riise £4,000,000
    Harry Kewell Free
    Anthony Le Tallec Undisclosed
    Peter Crouch £11,000,000*
    Danny Guthrie £2,250,000
    Scott Carson £3,250,000*
    Steve Finnan Undisclosed*
    Robbie Keane £16,000,000*
    Jack Hobbs Undisclosed
    Paul Anderson £250,000
    Jermaine Pennant Free*
    Miki RoqueFree
    Sebastian Leto£3,000,0000
    Álvaro Arbeloa £3,500,000
    Xabi Alonso £30,000,000
    Adam Hammills transfer fee hasn't being added.
    So thats 81.45 million recouped - working on the premise that you are quoting there full price, Benitez has spent 5 million on average over 2 seasons on Transfers.

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  39. So it begs the question where the fuck is the Champions League money that Liverpool have earned over the 2 years?? Plus the merchandising and new sponorship deals.....
    Can anyone run a club on a shoe string budget of average 5 million each season according to the figures above with wheeling and dealing without invested capital from the club....
    They are my points to the equation, yes Benitez has spent but he has recouped a lot of dough and its not being added to to get the top class talent. He still has to go after 2nd and even 3rd rate players after 5 years as manager is nothing short of an indictment on the current state of Liverpool Football Club and its current owners and the former owner David Moores for getting us into this situation.

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  40. Bit blinkered again like most of your articles. If Tomkins has rose coloured glasses then you are at the opposite spectrum. As I have stated before I respect your opinion but you seem to post these articles to gain one thing - Hits and a response.

    Sadly this will be the last time I post on here or even visit your site. There are far more worthy and intelligent blogs out there on this subject matter.

    Good day and good luck
    YNWA

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  41. You're right - I was not as clear as I should have been.  I didn't mean Benitez had 'wasted' the money, merely that he had not used it as effectively as he should have.

    *20m for a player who is injured and will miss the first months of the season = money not used effectively, especially given the need to fill the gap left by alonso.

    * 17m on a right back who made the same amount of assists Steve Finnan made in 2 years = money not used effectively.

    Same goes for Keane/Dossena et al

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  42. Sorry approx. nearly 9-9.5 million a season on transfers over the last 2 seasons.

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  43. In my humble opinion, the only regrettable transfer saga was Robbie Keane. We could argue all day about whether he was given the chances he deserved, or if he was mismanaged by Rafa, but either way, there was a mistake there. In terms of who is to blame on that one, in truth I don't know and I guess we will never really know who made the call on that one.

    Looking at the other purchases that could be deemed "wasted money", you could agrue that he had an acceptable hit rate with good signings V bad ones. Babel looks so good on paper, but he just fails to deliver time and again. Voronin is poor, but he was free. I Like Riera, think he will do well for us. Dossena, well there is an interesting one. Again, he looks good on paper, he's quick, strong, decent going forward, but a little suspect at the back (a little like Glenn Johnson).

    So, our 2 new boys. Glenn Johnson; I thought in an England shirt, he had a poor game, he did seem to left the winger in behind him, which is probably his weakness. Against Spurs I thought he was one of the better players on the pitch and gave me some encouragement. Was he over-prices? Yes. The fact is, all English players are market up 40% and Rafa did hold his hand up to that. Aquilani; He looks a great player based on the limited fotage I have seen of him, but I am concerned about his injury record. I am going to reserve judgement on him and have faith in the decision to bring him in.

    Finally, the Alonso saga. We all saw the effect of keeping an unhappy player at the Evertone game on Saturday. fact is a contract means nothing when a player wants out. I am as dissappointed as anyone to lose Alonso, but we have to move on. My gut feel is the Alonso probably decided he didn;t want to work with Rafa any more when Alonso refused to play in that Champs league match to go to the birth of his child. As I recall Rafa dropped him for a few games afterwards and I don't think their relationship recovered. Add that to the Barry saga last yeat and keeping him was unlikely.

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  44. In my humble opinion, the only regrettable transfer saga was Robbie Keane. We could argue all day about whether he was given the chances he deserved, or if he was mismanaged by Rafa, but either way, there was a mistake there. In terms of who is to blame on that one, in truth I don't know and I guess we will never really know who made the call on that one.

    Looking at the other purchases that could be deemed "wasted money", you could agrue that he had an acceptable hit rate with good signings V bad ones. Babel looks so good on paper, but he just fails to deliver time and again. Voronin is poor, but he was free. I Like Riera, think he will do well for us. Dossena, well there is an interesting one. Again, he looks good on paper, he's quick, strong, decent going forward, but a little suspect at the back (a little like Glenn Johnson).

    So, our 2 new boys. Glenn Johnson; I thought in an England shirt, he had a poor game, he did seem to left the winger in behind him, which is probably his weakness. Against Spurs I thought he was one of the better players on the pitch and gave me some encouragement. Was he over-prices? Yes. The fact is, all English players are market up 40% and Rafa did hold his hand up to that. Aquilani; He looks a great player based on the limited fotage I have seen of him, but I am concerned about his injury record. I am going to reserve judgement on him and have faith in the decision to bring him in.

    Finally, the Alonso saga. We all saw the effect of keeping an unhappy player at the Evertone game on Saturday. fact is a contract means nothing when a player wants out. I am as dissappointed as anyone to lose Alonso, but we have to move on. My gut feel is the Alonso probably decided he didn;t want to work with Rafa any more when Alonso refused to play in that Champs league match to go to the birth of his child. As I recall Rafa dropped him for a few games afterwards and I don't think their relationship recovered. Add that to the Barry saga last yeat and keeping him was unlikely.

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  45. Alan - I agree with you that Benitez has not had all the money he should have, but that is not the issue!

    I'll ask this question again: what difference does money recouped make to the money Benitez HAS had to spend?!

    In the last 2 seasons, he has spent 73.5m.  What he does with that money is not affected by money recouped/held back.  He still has to choose the players he wants to sign with the money he has, and in my view, he has not bought wisely.

    The fact that Hicks/Gillett have not given him all the money they should have is a completely separate issue.

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  46. Hmm name me one manager who has got it right every single time in the transfer market? Then name me one who with all the dramas of the backroom of the last couple of years would have still gotten us as close as we did last season (with those players you mentioned btw) and still be competitive in Europe.

    For every Dossena and Babel there has been the finds of Alonso, Arbeloa, Reina ... not exactly household names before they came and flourished at our club eh?

    What about Torres then? A bargain at 20 odd million for the world's best forward.

    Honestly your hyperbole at times borders on the deluded but sadly in reality it screams of one thing only - a cheap attempt to generate traffic.

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  47. Sorry a couple of typing errors in there, but you get the idea.

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  48. <td> </td>

    The rest of transfers in. Damn those character allowances...


    David Ngog
    <td> </td>

    Paris St Germain
    <td> </td>

    £1,500,000
    <td> </td>

    24.07.2008
    <td> </td>

    Robbie Keane
    <td> </td>

    Tottenham
    <td> </td>

    £19,000,000
    <td> </td>

    28.07.2008
    <td> </td>

    Albert Riera
    <td> </td>

    Espanyol
    <td> </td>

    £8,000,000
    <td> </td>

    31.08.2008
    <td> </td>

    Glen Johnson
    <td> </td>

    Portsmouth
    <td> </td>

    £17,500,000
    <td> </td>

    26.06.2009
    <td> </td>

    Alberto Aquilani
    <td> </td>

    AS Roma
    <td> </td>

    £17,100,000*
    <td> </td>

    07.08.2009
    <td> </td>

    Daniel Ayala
    <td> </td>

    Sevilla
    <td> </td>

    Undisclosed
    <td> </td>

    Sep 2009

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  49. Ok hold on I have to totally disagree with the first part of ur article, the second part I do agree with, Im not sayin rafa has been flawless but the "wasted money" was not on those sortsa players, it was on these freebees such as Degen an Voronin that just havent amounted to anything.

    #1 Kean -
    It was clear that it was not Rafa's choice to sign Keane
    Rafa tried to accomodate him knowing of his talent and get some worth out of him which ended up it did not entirley work. It was Rafas buisness which got us 75% of the money back from him after Parry Left.

    #2 Dossena -
    I think people are being overly harsh on Dossena, I have italian friends who were telling me he was the best left back in Italy, he's only been there a year and even then not all first team. 7m I agree is a lot for a backup, but he since arriving has changed his role and now likes to get up and have shots at goal.I will however admit I do prefer Insua

    #3 Glen Johson -
    It was clear last season when we had Carra playin right back when arebola was injured we had a problem, plus Kuyt altho effective on the right does not generally run at players or play the best balls in, Johnson does and showed some worth already against Tottenham, didn put a foot wrong all game like many of the others.

    #4 Riera -
    I agree with Riera, I was a little disapointed when we signed him because we were linked to big names, man utd had just got berbatov and city had just got Robinho and I was like WHOOO? but I cant fault the man 8m for power, skill, crosses and goals.

    <span><span style="font-weight: bold;">#5 Aquilani - Part of me thnks its a gamble and part of me hopes that Rafa, the scouts and the medical staff have looked at him and thought it has just been bad luck considering the amount of money. He past a medicle with a 2 month injury.</span></span>

    #6 Ngog -
    ok 1.5m not a lot in terms but i have to admit i dont see a lot of prospect in this guy, hope he goes away on loan and proves me wrong

    Now it is clear some strength is needed and the math shows that instead of 1.5 we should have close to 41m to spend, even if a huge half of that went towards the dept 20.5 is more than enough to bring in some class. and the fact Rafa has not got that is not his fault.

    P.S and ur rite Arshavan, Hleb or SWP for 10m woulda been fantastic and we should have jumped at it.

    Cheers

    Sean

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  50. Yes, transfers are sometimes two sided, but when all is said and done, benitez endsup with an amount of money he can spend.  In the last 2 seasons, that is 70m+.  What he THEN does with that money is what's important, and whatever went into acquiring that money is then irrelevant - it comes down to who benitez chooses to buy and how much he spends. 

    In this regards, he has clearly wasted a lot of money!  He did not need to buy Keane, Dossena, Aquilani etc; he CHOSE to, and that is the point.

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  51. oh aye and added on to Glen Jono - Because of new europe rules it was a good idea to sign and english player, which was shrewd to get one of the biggest english stars of last season and can only be good for english footy.

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  52. Jamie...ur figyres are wrong...only initial fees are recorded...
    Aquilani's initial is 17M pounds

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  53. Agreed, of course its relevant

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  54. I don't know if it's wise to have spent the money on Aquilani but I'm prepared to wait and see.  I sense you're of the opinion that the title this year is the be all and end all for you.

    Suggesting the title race could be lost by October shows a lack of respect  and / or confidence in the the rest of the team.  Are you suggesting it would be Aquilani's fault?  May I ask who you would have bought had you been the manager this summer?

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  55. I didn't say that Arbeloa wanted to leave, I said that he did not want to sign a contract extension.

    And I can't really see what Aurelio or Degen being injury-prone has to do with Hyypia. He couldn't have played right- or left-back. I would have liked Sami to stay, but he will get more games in Germany than he would have at Liverpool. He may get a game or two now, but over the course of the season it would have been 10-15. He wanted more, fair enough.

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  56. I didn't say that Arbeloa wanted to leave, I said that he did not want to sign a contract extension.

    And I can't really see what Aurelio or Degen being injury-prone has to do with Hyypia. He couldn't have played right- or left-back. I would have liked Sami to stay, but he will get more games in Germany than he would have at Liverpool. He may get a game or two now, but over the course of the season it would have been 10-15. He wanted more, fair enough.

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  57. Oh dear another reactionary post from the Jaimie "only person who gives a critical view therefore must be right" Kanwar.

    Firstly, how do you even know that the 1.5million story is correct. Not one quote from anyone linked to the club. So how did the Mirror find this out? Or is it just sensationalist rubbish to sell some papers.

    Yes Rafa has spent £73 million in the last two years but how much is really a waste.

    Keane - from what I understand we didn't pay £20 up front. We kept him for 6 months and sold him back for £12-16 million (depending on which source you believe). So how exactly have we wasted 20 million. Ok the transfer itself didn't work out but lots of transfers don't. The fact is we didn't pay out £20 million.

    Aquilani- how has this been a waste when we have yet to see him play. As Rafa said we bought him for 5 years not 5 games. Judge him at the end of the season.

    Johnson - £17 million on the England right back, possibly an inflated price but Rafa admitted this at the time. We wanted him, and because the current transfer market has been inflated by the spending of Man City we had to pay for it. There's not point in giving the stats on 17 assists in 171 games. He's a young lad, only 24. He's only become the player he is now in the last year or so. Do you remember him at Chelsea; young, inexperienced, not England first choice right back.

    Rafa didn't force out Sami or Arbeloa. Sami was told that he wouldn't get many games as he is getting on a bit so he decided to leave. He could have stayed and played in the odd game but he felt he still had more to give so left.

    See the quote from Arbeloa - "Since the door was opened to the possibility of coming here I was hoping for it to happen with all my heart, and I'm very happy to be able to return," Arbeloa told RealmadridTV.
    "Not even in your best dreams can you imagine that you are going to be in the Real Madrid first team.

    Does this sound like a man who was forced out. Arbeloa had a year left on his ocntract Real showed interest , he wanted to join them, or we could have kept him and lost him in a year for free.

    Dossena - hasn't lived up to expectation but is a Italian international so the potential was there. Unfortunately it didn't work out.

    Albert Riera - good buy - 5 assists and 5 goals in his first season is a decent return on £8 million.

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  58. Oh dear another reactionary post from the Jaimie "only person who gives a critical view therefore must be right" Kanwar.

    Firstly, how do you even know that the 1.5million story is correct. Not one quote from anyone linked to the club. So how did the Mirror find this out? Or is it just sensationalist rubbish to sell some papers.

    Yes Rafa has spent £73 million in the last two years but how much is really a waste.

    Keane - from what I understand we didn't pay £20 up front. We kept him for 6 months and sold him back for £12-16 million (depending on which source you believe). So how exactly have we wasted 20 million. Ok the transfer itself didn't work out but lots of transfers don't. The fact is we didn't pay out £20 million.

    Aquilani- how has this been a waste when we have yet to see him play. As Rafa said we bought him for 5 years not 5 games. Judge him at the end of the season.

    Johnson - £17 million on the England right back, possibly an inflated price but Rafa admitted this at the time. We wanted him, and because the current transfer market has been inflated by the spending of Man City we had to pay for it. There's not point in giving the stats on 17 assists in 171 games. He's a young lad, only 24. He's only become the player he is now in the last year or so. Do you remember him at Chelsea; young, inexperienced, not England first choice right back.

    Rafa didn't force out Sami or Arbeloa. Sami was told that he wouldn't get many games as he is getting on a bit so he decided to leave. He could have stayed and played in the odd game but he felt he still had more to give so left.

    See the quote from Arbeloa - "Since the door was opened to the possibility of coming here I was hoping for it to happen with all my heart, and I'm very happy to be able to return," Arbeloa told RealmadridTV.
    "Not even in your best dreams can you imagine that you are going to be in the Real Madrid first team.

    Does this sound like a man who was forced out. Arbeloa had a year left on his ocntract Real showed interest , he wanted to join them, or we could have kept him and lost him in a year for free.

    Dossena - hasn't lived up to expectation but is a Italian international so the potential was there. Unfortunately it didn't work out.

    Albert Riera - good buy - 5 assists and 5 goals in his first season is a decent return on £8 million.

    ReplyDelete
  59. 30m for one of the best players in england last year for an average team and an Italian international who was getting 30 games a season for Roma at only age 21(hoping injury woes are behind him)
    I believe this money has been spent wise and we should have some more to spend, dont believe the 1.5 i think we'll get another 8/9m before the window closes.

    ReplyDelete
  60. I don't think it's a lack of respect, but a lack of confidence is correct.  Is it not vital that Liverpool build on last season's league performance?  how can they do that when the team has been weakened?  Alonso's loss weakens the team;  this would not be so much of a problem if Benitez bought someone to replace him NOW.  He hasn't done that, which is a mistake.

    If our team is weaker in midfield than last year, then surely it stands to reason that we may not be as effective as last season?

    We have already seen the this is the defreat against Spurs, in which our midfield was seriously lacking.

    Given that performance, I don't think it's unreasonable to have a lack of confidence in the team's ability to challenge this season.

    if the league is lost by october, I won't blame Aquilani, I'll blame Benitez.  He didn't have to buy an injured player, did he?  he could've bought someone who could go into the team straight away.

    If Aquilani was fit, i wouldn't have a problem.  He isn't fit; consequently, our first team is weaker.  That is the thing with which I have a problem.

    if I was manager, I would have simply bought someone who was:

    a) Fit
    b) able to go straight into the first team.

    Lorik Cana was linked with Liverpool in the summer; he is a possibility.  I don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of world football but I'm sure there must be *someone* out there who fits points a and b above.

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  61. I don't think it's a lack of respect, but a lack of confidence is correct.  Is it not vital that Liverpool build on last season's league performance?  how can they do that when the team has been weakened?  Alonso's loss weakens the team;  this would not be so much of a problem if Benitez bought someone to replace him NOW.  He hasn't done that, which is a mistake.

    If our team is weaker in midfield than last year, then surely it stands to reason that we may not be as effective as last season?

    We have already seen the this is the defreat against Spurs, in which our midfield was seriously lacking.

    Given that performance, I don't think it's unreasonable to have a lack of confidence in the team's ability to challenge this season.

    if the league is lost by october, I won't blame Aquilani, I'll blame Benitez.  He didn't have to buy an injured player, did he?  he could've bought someone who could go into the team straight away.

    If Aquilani was fit, i wouldn't have a problem.  He isn't fit; consequently, our first team is weaker.  That is the thing with which I have a problem.

    if I was manager, I would have simply bought someone who was:

    a) Fit
    b) able to go straight into the first team.

    Lorik Cana was linked with Liverpool in the summer; he is a possibility.  I don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of world football but I'm sure there must be *someone* out there who fits points a and b above.

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  62. The exception proves the rule. And I think that you should better ask some Arsenal supporters whether they think that Wenger get's ALL of his transfers right. I am not so sure about that.

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  63. The exception proves the rule. And I think that you should better ask some Arsenal supporters whether they think that Wenger get's ALL of his transfers right. I am not so sure about that.

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  64. What difference does it make?!  Whatever way you choose to muddy the waters,  Liverpool FC will have to fork out 20m,

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  65. Not at all - where did I suggest that only I am right.  My view is just one of millions.  You have every right to disagree, but if you spouted the same cliches as the posted above (Parry incharge of transfers/ Parry signed Keane;Houlliers's squad was crap etc), then yes, i would think you'd been brainwashed by the media.

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  66. I obviously missed something there. Rafa alienated Mascherano. When exactly did that happen. Barca asked about his availability, Rafa said 50m, Barca couldn't pay, end of discussion. Mascherano should consider where his career was going when he was at West Ham and who took him out of his misery there and how much we've paid for him.

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  67. Your quote

    "Hyypia only wanted to leave because benitez basically told him he would be getting even fewer games than he was used to.  Given the constant injuries to Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio and Degen, giving Hyypia this impression was wrong. If he'd stayed, he would have played quite a lot this season, I'm sure. 
     
    As for Arbeloa - since when did he want to leave?  He was forced to leave because benitez wanted to sell him."

    You dismiss someone else's comments about Arbeloa with some unsupported stuff about Rafa wanting him to leave. Where is your proof?
    The only known fact in the public domain is that Arbeloa had 1yr left on his contract.

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  68. I totaly agree with this article!

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  69. Did Arbeloa ask for a transfer? No. Did he publicly express any interest in leaving? No. Given the fact he only signed 2.5 years ago, what is more likely: a) Arbeloa wanted to leave b) Benitez wanted to sell him.
    I take your point though, by assertion in this instance was unsupported. However, making inferences from the available facts, I would argue that my version is closer to the truth. of course, I could be wrong, but I guess we'll never know.

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  70. gajendra from nepal3:24 pm, August 18, 2009

    i dont think rafa is to blame for all this..he's helpless..see how other clubs are splashing money in the market..benitez is fully trying to utilise the money as much as he can..he's the man..but owners should get the hell out of anfield..we r with benitez..he's the right man for the club..

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  71. You haven't factored in how much was recouped from sales you plonker.  What a  load of tosh.

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  72. For the fourth time - please explain how money recouped from sales has any bearing on the quality of player Benitez decides to buy with the money he has available.

    if you respond in the same manner as your original post, I will permanently ban you from commenting.  if, however, you're able to debate in a civilised manner and answer the question, then great!

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  73. Thanks for your support!

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  74. Thanks for your support!

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  75. 17m + add ons =20m

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  76. 17m + add ons =20m

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  77. I think you are clutching at straws right now, Jaimie. Personally I don't think there is anything wrong about being critical, but I can't help to think that you are pushing it a bit too far most of the time and I don't go as far as to swap the "K" with the "W" in your surname for that. Sometimes it seems obvious that you can not tolerate opinions different to yours, which is kind of sad as you even admitted that you are only guessing. Hardly the basis for an opinion as strong as yours.

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  78. I Think some of your comments are fair, rafa is to defence minded, When alonso left, he should have bought villa, play gerrard deep , we needed a rh back arbeoba canT cross and is afraid to shoot, he should have given keane a full season. When he started scoring he dropped him, HERE WE ARE AGAIN NEW SEASON 1 STRIKER AND NO COVER AGAIN, AND LOADS OF MID FIELDERS. i THINK THE SEASON IS OVER ALL READY AND WE HAVE ONLY 1 GAME PLAYED, BECAUSE OF THE WRONG BUYS

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  79. To suggest I can't tolerate opinions other my own is lazy and patently inaccurate.  My views tend to be different to most peoples', therefore I'm constantly in a position of opposition.  In such a situation, of course there is going to be conflict of opinion, that is what makes good debate.

    Defending your point of view is not being intolerant of other opinions.  Furthermore, in the comment above, did I not admit my view was unsupported?  Did I not defer to the original commenter's view?  yes.

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  80. '<span>Was it really necessary to spend £17m on Glen Johnson?' </span>
    Stopped reading there.

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  81. RAFA WILL HAVE TO PLAY GERRARD IN CENTRE MID, AND PLAY KUYT AND TORRES UP FRONT ,  RIERA AND BENAYOU, ON THE WINGS , AND WHEN AQUILINA IS FIT GERRARD CAN MOVE BACK UP, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAN RAFA IS SHOPPING IN ALDI NOT HARRODS, , GLEN JOHSON WAS BOUGHT OVER THE NEW RULE , HE SHOULD ALSO GIVE NEMMETH A RUN HE COULD HELP UP FRONT, WHISKEY HEAD FERGIE IS GIVING YOUTH A CHANCE AND RAFA WILL HAVE TO AS WELL, NO CLUB CAN KEEP PAYING OVER THE ODDS ON PLAYERS, THE YOUTH PLAYERS NEED TO PLAY FIRST TEAM GAMES AND THEN THEY WILL GEL, AND THAT CAN HELP US WIN THE LEAGUE

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  82. Attention deficit disorder?

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  83. I really find it a struggle to believe that you're a Liverpool fan, and I can't be the only one.

    Your article, like many before it, is such a biased and distorted portrayal of the facts that it would be at home on a blog of a Manchester United supporter: it's all negative.

    I'll point out a few inaccuracies/oversights on your part to illustrate what I mean:

    1. Robbie Keane was not a purchase sanctioned by Rafa Benitez. Neither was Keane mismanaged: he played 19 league games for Liverpool and, given the excellent service he received, his goals tally was poor.

    I'm not sure how much faith I put in the various rumours floating around about the "real" reason he was sold back to Spurs, but you can't blame Benitez for things he didn't do.

    2. Andrea Dossena wasn't an instant hit, and maybe he won't get the chance to be the player we hoped he would, but that's not criminal, is it?
    Unless you expect a manager to have a crystal ball and be able to guarantee every signing is a success from day one then you need to accept that some players take time to adjust, and some just don't fit, because that's just the way things are.

    3.Glen Johnson was bought because he's a very good right-back right now (with the potential to be an even better one), and English.

    Buying him killed two birds with one stone: it filled the right-back slot that was going to be vacated by Alvaro Arbeloa, who wanted to return to Spain for some time now, and it further anglicised the squad, which provided a boost to the Champions League campaign, and potentially the Premier League if the 6+5 rule is introduced.

    4. Sami Hyypia also declined to sign a new contract, because he wanted to play more. That's an admiral quality, and Liverpool were right to respect his wishes (not that they could do anything about it, mind), given the excellent service he has given the club for many years.

    5. Unless I'm mistaken, Albert Riera played most of Spain's 3-2 away win to Macedonia in mid-week. He scored the winning goal, so that certainly puts him on the field for most, if not all, of the 90 minutes.

    It wouldn't surprise me if he only got back to Liverpool on Friday, so asking him to play vs Spurs might have been the exactly the sort of "mismanagement" that you think Benitez was guilty of with Keane.

    6. Alberto Aquilani I agree with you on in part, but I have more faith in the manager than you clearly do.

    It's hard to condemn a player before he's stepped onto the pitch even once for the club. And if he's truly the right man for the job then two months isn't going to matter compared to what follows.

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  84. blackstone bearo4:03 pm, August 18, 2009

    well once again Jaimie Kanwar is attempting to get loadsa hits on his website with inaccurate made up figures - Alonso and Arbeloa wanted to go - Hyppia wanted guaranteed first team action - none of this is Rafa's fault - If u do a web search for Jaimie Kanwar you will be brought to sites with numerous Liverpool fans exclaiming their dislike for him - bet he wont even post this message now as he only ever gives his opinion - since when is opinion journalism ?? Jaimie Kanwar you are meant to be objective in your reports not subjective - your blinkered viewpoint is so off the mark its unbelievable - u sure u not a Manc in disguise ?

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  85. 7. Xabi Alonso said as recently as May that he was looking forward to a sixth season at Anfield and his agent said he was going nowhere, as well. Then, as we all know, Real Madrid entered the picture and things changed.

    Again, you say the manager treated Alonso badly. Well, coming off the back of two very average seasons (poor ones, by his high standards), selling Alonso wasn't as foolish as you make it out to be.

    Yes, I was one of the ones who was shocked as well, but if you're going to damn Benitez for sticking with players you don't think are pulling their weight then give him some credit for being brave enough to sell a fan-favourite who was not playing anywhere near his potential.

    Alonso responded to everything with his best season, but who's to say that we would have seen that from him if he hadn't had the wake-up call of almost being sold? He clearly wanted to prove himself after the sale fell through, and we reaped the benefits on the pitch.

    Some would credit that as good man-management: getting more out of what you have already can't be bad, can it?

    8. Nobody will argue that Ryan Babel, Andrei Voronin, Lucas Leiva and Philip Degen aren't all the instant success that others have been. And, again, perhaps they'll never be legends in red, but you have to accept that not all signings will work out perfectly.

    To be blunt, Liverpool aren't in the comfy position that Manchester United are in. United can afford to give players lots of time to adapt, perhaps too much time in the case of certain players. But where we have Babel they have Nani. Where we have Degen they have Owen Hargreaves (both missed the season due to injuries). The difference is they started from a position of far superior strength.

    So perhaps show a bit more patience, at least while the manager does. But if you don't want to do that, then at least accept that if you damn him for the players that haven't shined then you have to give him due praise for those that have excelled, such as Fernando Torres (world's best striker, according to just about everybody), Javier Mascherano (the best team on the planet want him), etc.

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  86. Lastly, if what is being said in the last day or so about the remaining transfer kitty is true then it represents a massive lie, both to the manager and the fans. If Benitez bought in the knowledge that more funds were available to buy others, and has only now been told that he doesn't have those funds, then that is a massive betrayal.

    If you needed a work outfit and went to the shops and bought a shirt and tie in one shop thinking you had enough to buy the trousers in the next one then you'd be very annoyed if the bank had taken away your £500 overdraft limit and left you penniless and unable to pay for things without even giving you a heads up warning.

    To blame Benitez for not forseeing that he was going to be lied to is just incredible. One report from a credible newspaper says that we had a deal for David Silva done and dusted only for Benitez to find out that the money he thought was there just didn't exist.

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  87. PS. Nothing to show for the spending? So you think Liverpool showed no improvement last season over the season before?

    Really?

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  88. 1. Rafa did not sanction the purchase of Robbie Keane?!  Where is your evidence for this?  I have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he DID want Keane here >>>>>

    2. If Dossena was such a great signing, why did benitez try and sell him over the summer?  Is this not an admission from the man himself that he was not a good signing?

    3. You're misunderstanding me - I do not dispute that Johnson is a good player; I take issue with the amount of money spent on a position that was not a priority.

    4. In my view, Sami could have been persuaded to stay. In light of the fact our defenders seem very injur prone (Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio etc) Benitez should have done more to keep him.  If Sami was here. our current defensive predicament would not be so acute.

    5. Riera was not injured for Sunday's game.  There is no official statement from any official source (including LFC.tv) that he was injured.

    Furthermore, Torres played against macedonia and he started, so it doesn't make sense.

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  89. What consistent contribution did Keane, Dossena and Ngog make to last season?

    Riera is the only signing who had an impact.

    Re this season - Aquilani will not play until at least October, so at present, Liverpool have next to nothing to show for the cash outlay of the last 2 seasons.

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  90. <span style="font-family: arial; color: #111111; line-height: 15px;">Rafa is crap.. he has been crap. Lost all respect for this guy. He has an excuse or reason for every failure and he has now becoming stubborn and arragon. I doubt he will win us anything this or next year. 80% of his buys have been crap just like him.</span>

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  91. Thanks for commenting but in future, please refrain from criticising players/managers in a personal way.  Calling benitez 'crap' is uncalled for.  By all means criticise but do so in the right way. Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  92. very similar to what i said above, good comment
    mon the pool

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  93. Liverpoolfan20095:08 pm, August 18, 2009

    So you state that Rafa has spent £73million. Now this is a serious question, do you actually think this or are you trying to exagerate your point for page views? 
     
    You place Keane in that figure but fail to state that we sold him. Then you also put Aqualani in there, even though we bought him for £18million with the £30million we received from Alonso. 
     
    Theres also Arbeloa's sale. I think our net spend is closer to £30-40 million

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  94. I've asked this question 6 times now on this thread: what does money recouped have to do with the quality of players benitez buys with the money he has available.

    * Keane was bought in 2008.  After 6 months, he was sold.  What possible difference does the money we got for him in the sale make to the initial purchase?!

    Net spend is the biggest logical fallacy going in football.

    It's all well and good getting money back for players *after the fact* but this makes NO DIFFERENCE to what benitez does with the money he has to spend at the time.

    basically, what you're saying is we can waste money as long as somewhere down the line we claw some of it back.

    What about 8what could have been* if the money had been spent properly? What about the opportunities missed becuase the wrong players were bought?

    ReplyDelete
  95. Liverpoolfan20095:20 pm, August 18, 2009

    To be fair I think you forget what state the team was before we got Benitez - awful

    He has since bought us:

    Reina
    Agger
    Skertl
    Johnson
    Masch
    Alonso
    Garcia
    Torres
    Benayoun
    Kuyt

    How can you argue with these?!

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  96. why was the team 'awful' before Benitez? The tactics and Houllier's influence were the problem, not the quality of players.

    Hamann
    Hyypia
    Henchoz
    Riise
    Finnan
    Berger
    Dudek
    Warnock
    Baros
    Cisse
    Kewell
    Gerrard
    Owen
    Carragher
    Smicer
    Sinama Pongolle
    Mellor

    I'm sorry, but this is not an 'awful' squad.  In fact, this squad won the CL.  Houllier was the problem, not the players.

    And yes, there were some dodgy players: Cheyrou, Diao etc, but are they any worse than the likes of Josemi, Nunez, Kromkamp, Degen, Voronin, Gonzalez etc? No.

    yes, Benitez has bought some good players but he has bought more ineffective players than effective.

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  97. why was the team 'awful' before Benitez? The tactics and Houllier's influence were the problem, not the quality of players.

    Hamann
    Hyypia
    Henchoz
    Riise
    Finnan
    Berger
    Dudek
    Warnock
    Baros
    Cisse
    Kewell
    Gerrard
    Owen
    Carragher
    Smicer
    Sinama Pongolle
    Mellor

    I'm sorry, but this is not an 'awful' squad.  In fact, this squad won the CL.  Houllier was the problem, not the players.

    And yes, there were some dodgy players: Cheyrou, Diao etc, but are they any worse than the likes of Josemi, Nunez, Kromkamp, Degen, Voronin, Gonzalez etc? No.

    yes, Benitez has bought some good players but he has bought more ineffective players than effective.

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  98. See, you're doing it again.

    1. When a journalist prints something, you slam it as "supposition", "unprovable", etc.

    Yet on the other hand, what you believe is gospel. Why? Do you have sworn testamonies from everybody involved? For everything you say, on all subjects?

    A journalist with a respected broadsheet newspaper, who probably has very good sources in and around the club, vs you, who probably has few, if any sources beyond what you see and read. Who do you think people are going to believe?

    Who should people believe? Which is more credible?

    2. Twisting things again, eh? Where did I say that Dossena was a great signing? If you're going to respond to me then kindly respond to what I've actually written, and not what you wish I had written.

    3. The price tag was set by the selling club, and they had two other offers for the same amount.

    4. "In your view"? So that's supposition again, right? I'm sure that Liverpool did everything possible to persuade Hyypia to stay, yet you prefer to believe that they didn't. Why?

    Do you have some proof that there was anything other than a hundred percent effort to keep him at the club? If not then why not accept what everybody at the club has said?

    5. Yet again, twisting things? Did I say he was injured? No. So why imply that I did?

    Torres played 64 minutes of that game. Riera played the full 90. I'm sure Benitez watched the match and made his own judgement as to who might need a rest or not, bearing in mind the travel time, etc.

    I didn't watch the game but it doesn't take a genius to see why one might have been given the day off vs Spurs while the other started.

    Your twisted responses, together with how easily you dismiss any source that you don't agree with, suggest that you're not interested in serious debate at all.

    If you merely want to preach your viewpoint rather than openly debate it as one of many then perhaps you should disable all comments altogether.

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  99. Liverpoolfan20095:40 pm, August 18, 2009

    I'm sorry but the only players there of an effect at the time that Benitez came were Hamann, Hyypia, Finnan, Riise, Gerrard and Owen. Owen left a month later as he wanted out. Every player I mentioned is an improvement of how the players were when Benitez came except Carra, Gerrard and Sami.

    To say Benitez has brought in more ineffective players then the worth of the effective players is laughable. You also seem to think that a manager should only buy decent players in order to be a success. Lets look at only a few of Fergusons buys:

    Kleberson
    Veron
    Forlan
    Barthez
    Djemba Djemba
    Nani
    Bellion
    Alan Smith

    How many great players has he bought without being able to spend £30+ million?

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  100. 1. What are you on about?  To what are you referring?  There is NO EVIDENCE that Benitez did not want Keane. please expand upon this point in the Keane thread if you disagree.

    2. Did I suggest that *you* had stated Dossena was a great signing?  No.  it's a general point.  if a signing is a good one, you don't try and sell them less than 12 months later, do you?

    3. Just because an inflated price is set by the selling club doesn't mean benitez has to pay it.  Besides, right back was not an urgent priority; the money should have been used to buy someone for a more pressing position, i.e. central defence or right/left midfield.

    4.Yes, in my view.  I'm allowed an opinion on the matter.  Based on the available facts, I surmise that Hyypia could have been persuaded to stay.  After all, he was thinking of leaving the previous season and ended up staying, so why not this time?  We know he loves the club, so i doubt it would have been mission impossible.

    5. Like point 2 above, I did not suggest you had intimated that Riera was injured. 

    And perhaps should get your facts straight: Riera played only 44 minutes; he was a 46th minute substitue

    So - Torres played MORE minutes than Riera but started the game.  Riera payed LESS minutes but was not even on the bench.  Doesn't make sense, especially when the bench was so weak.

    I do not 'dismiss' sources I do not agree with; i dismiss sources that are not reliable/and or provide no evidence. 

    People who have visited this site for a while will know that I encourage debate and always respect others' views. disagreeing with someone's view does not mean you are dismissing it.

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  101. One other thing, why does everyone see Aquilani has a direct replacement for Xabi? They are two completely different players!! Xabi is comfortable playing in a holding position, while Aquilani is comfortable in forward position. If Rafa's intentions are to maintain the 4231 position, Aquilani is not the right purchase. The only way of keeping that position would be to move Stevie back to the midfield, which is a bad move. The partnership with Torres has made them a real threat, and I can't see us moving away from that. So, how does Aquilani really help us. Also, is Stevie being used to his best ability if you place him in the middle of the park. That would mean that he would have to have to take on more of a positional role, which would limit him from making those great runs. Aquilani may be a great player, but is he right for the current system? I don't think so.

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  102. Rafas transfers right from from the start has involved selling first team players to get better ones in,

    2004/5 out- owen, heskey, murphy.       in- alonso,garcia,morientes
    2005/6 out- baros,diarra,cheyrou           in-sissosko,reina,crouch
    2006/7 out- kirkland,morientes,le tallec  in-bellamy,gonzalez,pennant. 
    2007/8 out-garcia,cisse,bellamy             in-  torres,babel,benanyoun 
    2008/9 out-crouch,riise,carson,guthrie     in- keane,dossena,ngog 
    2009/10 out-alonso,arbeloa,leto             in-johnson,aquilani,  ?
    jan windows
                out-warnock                              in-arbeloa
                out-sissosko                             in-mascherano

    each year rafa has to sell someone he doesnt really want to, so that he can get a certain player. Now are competitors manu,chealsea and now man city do not have to do this, this insures that they retain stronger first team squads. Only arsenal do the same us and they too have not won a trophy in recent years.
    We need cash, not bucketfuls just enough to buy first team players and then sell fringe that we dont think are good enough.        

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  103. The yanks are destroying the club however you are correct about Benitez,bad signings and he seems to be unable to develop players.The only reason he gets so much support is because of the yanks,he has made it out to be us vs them to hide his own shortcomings.Babel would have made it under wenger,Lucas would not make it in a championship team yet he gets countless chances while Spearing does not get any.Why,because he did not waste 6mil on Spearing and he would have to admit he made a mistake.Every manager makes mistakes but the good ones admit it.  

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  104. I'm a journalist myself and I'm good mates with some of the lads who cover the Reds. My understanding is that there was little chance of persuading either Hyypia or Arbeloa to stay as neither wanted to. 

    Arbeloa had been angling for a move back to Spain for some time - his fall out with Jamie Carragher didn't help. But he was a favourite of Benitez's - if he could have kept him, he would have.

    As it was, he was in the final year of his contract, so he did pretty well to get £3.5m for him.

    Ditto - Sami. Hampered by the Champions League rules on foreigners, he was unlikely to make the cut for the squad for Europe. And Rafa could say what he wants to him - he knew the score after last season. He wasn't going to be a regular.

    Oh and Alonso. Bad management, you say by Benitez. Well, most LFC supporters  would agree I'm sure, that last season was the highlight of his Anfield career. Before that, he wasn't pulling up trees.

    Benitez had every right to look at alternative options in Barry - and if Alonso didn't like that, that's his problem, not Benitez's.

    Regarding the money he's spent, he has spent a lot. But he's not had the funds available to consistently bid for £30m players like United have done. So therefore he has to gamble - upping the chance of mistakes. 

    And finally, this summer. Well, the consensus is that the Yanks have moved the goalposts on the money available - and the signings appear to back this up. 

    If he was told he had just £40m available - then it's madness that he bought just Johnson and Aquilani.

    But I believe he was expecting to spend more - hence the links with defenders and number 7-style players.

    Now the Yanks have pulled the carpet away - and that's not Benitez's fault.

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  105. You seem to forget that Rafa always has to go for second or third choice target because he never gets the money he needs to buy the best. Torres and Johnson are the only exception to this and i think you'll agree torres was a great buy at 20m. Also Rafa bought skrtel and agger for around £5m each how much are they worth now?

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  106. because of the quota thing English players are needed at LFC. Can you name me one English player who would have cost less than Johnson and who have been an improvement on our team?

    Also you say Rafa has got it wrong in transfers a lot, but only Gerrard & Carragher remain from the era of Houllier where Liverpool struggled to finish 4th. Rafa has improved points tally every year so how is it Liverpool had better players 5 years ago, but struggled to finish 4th?

    To judge Aqualani before he has even kicked a ball says volumes about you. Are you this judgemental in everyday life?

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  107. Keane: at the point he was sold back to Spurs, his record for Liverpool was almost identical to that of Berbatov at ManU. I don't know why he was sold, but in spending £10 less and getting the same output, Benitez was at least on a par with Fergie in his judgment (albeit we only have a small sample with which to judge him).

    Remember, Keane was proven in the Premiership so there wasn't any adjustment period to worry about (in theory). Given that you complain that Aquilani needs time to adapt, that actually lends justification to the purchase of Keane. It is only hindsight that allows the criticisms to be made.

    Dossena: he has struggled, but still makes the Italy squad - go figure! For a fairly established Italian international, £7M seems a good deal. The fact it didn't work out so well was unfortunate, but then I think Rafa was prob motivated by a desperation to get rid of the misfiring Riise.

    Aquilani: passing judgment before he kicks a ball seems like knee-jerk shortsightedness. Yes, it would have been nice to get someone who wasn't injured and had never been injured in his life, but it guarantees nothing. After all - I am not aware of Torres missing much football till he joined the Reds.

    Johnson: you appear to be operating under the impression that attacking play is only ever generated by players in attacking positions. Surely, the whole point of the formation Rafa employs is to give freedom to the fullbacks to raid forward? With that in mind, Johnson fit the bill very well. For an English player, Rafa was always going to have to pay top dollar.

    Riera: good buy. Quality, if not quite in the upper echelon. Hope he improves further.

    N'Gog: at 1.5M, youngster who has time to develop. Not sure it really makes sense to try to read too much into that right now.

    Overall, I would say there was one genuinely disappointing buy (Dossena), but even that could turn round (personally would rather see Insua develop). Keane was an odd one - something wasn't right and that's obviously why he went. However, I think that the coverage of the Keane saga versus the generally far softer treatment Fergie got over his 30M Berbatov splurge shows that different rules apply. Both players ended the season with similar stats - what's to say that wouldn't have been true if Keane had stayed on at Liverpool?

    The rest, I would have to disagree with you completely. I should point out that despite saying that sales are irrelevant, much of your criticism of Benitez revolves around his decision to sell/move on certain players. It appears that you are only accepting the relevance of sales that you can paint in a negative light, and dismissing those that could be used to defend Benitez's overall actions.

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  108. Do you display such a lack of reading comprehension in everyday life?

    Show me where I have judged Aquilani.  Post the lines where I have cast aspersions against his ability.

    You won't find them because they don't exist.  There is a difference between questioning his transfer fee and questioning whether the player has what it takes.

    In fact, I even stated quite clearly in the article: I do not doubt that Aquilani is a good player.

    Stop generalising and make an effort to represent my view accurately.

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  109. Spot on Jamie, well reseached. Were probably only gonna be ready for cup competitions this season. Benitez is set in his ways,safety first .Attacking fom the back .Wing backs overlapping with midfield.Seems to be more interested in solidity at the back and compact midfield. Aquiliani may be a better attacking option in midfield but  were missing Alonso the true quarterback, Bound to come unstuck with lack of support for Torres(ankle) and Stevie ( already carrying a groin  problem).  Lucas  limited no guile andkids too light weight yet. Bench uninspiring. Pity too! Greedy yanks could have stumped up, and added the missing pieces!!!

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  110.  I agree about keane and arshavin. I am no scout , but arshavin can do things robbie keane can just dream about. Arshavin had 4 shots on reina and scored 4. Robbie has 3 shots and looks like an imbecile. I just dont agree with your crap analysis about keane management. He just cant produce ( miss after miss), has zero game intelligence and a poor ass attitude. Also maybe thats why some of the scouts have been cleaned out from anfield. As they say . Garbage in - garbage out. But when he gets them right, he gets them right well. Torres costs 80 mill, mashe will go for 30 mill, benny is 12-15 mill, riera is straight 16 mill now. He is just too pragmatic, I will wait for the guys in Melwood to grow up. If even one from amoo, della valle, nemeth, pacheco, ecclestone, buchman comes good, then we are set.

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  111.  I agree about keane and arshavin. I am no scout , but arshavin can do things robbie keane can just dream about. Arshavin had 4 shots on reina and scored 4. Robbie has 3 shots and looks like an imbecile. I just dont agree with your crap analysis about keane management. He just cant produce ( miss after miss), has zero game intelligence and a poor ass attitude. Also maybe thats why some of the scouts have been cleaned out from anfield. As they say . Garbage in - garbage out. But when he gets them right, he gets them right well. Torres costs 80 mill, mashe will go for 30 mill, benny is 12-15 mill, riera is straight 16 mill now. He is just too pragmatic, I will wait for the guys in Melwood to grow up. If even one from amoo, della valle, nemeth, pacheco, ecclestone, buchman comes good, then we are set.

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  112. I've asked this question 7 times now on this thread: what does money recouped have to do with the quality of players benitez buys with the money he has available.  
     
    * Keane was bought in 2008.  After 6 months, he was sold.  What difference does the money we got for him in the sale make to the initial purchase?!  
     
    Net spend is the biggest logical fallacy going in football.  
     
    It's all well and good getting money back for players *after the fact* but this makes NO DIFFERENCE to what Benitez does with the money he has to spend at the time.  
     
    Basically, what you and everyone else is suggesting is we can waste money as long as somewhere down the line we claw some of it back.  
     
    What about what could have been if the money had been spent properly? What about the opportunities missed becuase the wrong players were bought?

    The bottom line is when all is said and done, Rafa has X amount of money to spend.  What he does with that money is what's important, and at that stage, however much he recouped on x, y and z is irrelevant.

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  113. Tell me this:  How is a player supposed to settle and build up an understanding with his team-mates when:

    1. He is subbed or on the bench in 28 out of 33 appearances.

    2. He repeatedly substituted when he starts

    3. He is dropped to the bench every time he scores

    4. He is dropped in favour of vastly inexperienced players for no apparent reason.

    Keane was not given a fair chance at all, and no player could thrive in such an environment.

    I have no doubt that if it was Gerrard being treated the same way you would quickly change your tune.

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  114. this squad didnot win the CL. Owen was in sunny Madrid remember. 

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  115. I remember those days man. We were not Number 1 anymore, with rafa it feels like #1. We are not behind Arsenal and the Chavs any more. God. Remember those days!!Jamie wasnt there, was he. I saw Rush and Co. lose at Wimbeldon. We lost but we were stilll kings. It feels like that again. We are top drawer. Not UEFA CUP material anymore. Bleat all yuou like. 

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  116. Arsene Wenger pays over £10M for 17 year olds, somehting that Rafa is not in a position to do at the moment, and Arsene does not always get it right and how many cups has he won compared to Benitez

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  117. Keane had a destructive attitude within the team - ask JC

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  118. Yes, Keane who has been a model professional his entire career; who has been praised to high heaven by every manager he's played for; who has always had good things said about him by team-mates.  All of a sudden he has a destructive attitiude at Liverpool?!

    Yeah. Right.

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  119. Hi Robbo - I'll respond to your points properly later but for now I just want to address the Arbeloa point.  I don't believe that he was angling for a move back to Spain.  Indeed, his own comments seem to dispute this.  Here are some comments he made during last season:

    “I don’t know where all the speculation that I am not happy has come from but it is miles from the truth.
    “I am at a massive club.

    “I have played in a European Cup semi-final and a final too since I came here. I also broke into the national team through my displays for Liverpool.

    “There is competition for places here just the same as there is at any big club. But I know if I play well, play to a really high level, then the manager has confidence in me and will play me in his team.

    “I have played anywhere the manager has asked me to play and I will do the same again this season.”

    Pretty emphatic.  Doesn't sound like someone who wants to leave.

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  120. Your figures are factually wrong as they are in nearly every article slating Rafa. Two examples this season Johnson cost net 7 million as the balance of the crouch deal. This might look very wise if Pompey go into administration. Also only 5 million of the Aquilani deal has been paid as yet. Full payment of the Alonso deal means on these deals Liverpool PLC are up by 18 million. And Liverpool FC are down one world class player. I know who I blame.

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  121. jeffers, wiltord, reyes.

    No one manager seems infallible on the "dud" transfer scale.

    sorry.

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  122. This is the heights!!!

    You cant expect any human on this planet to be perfect. You go on saying that Rafa should have bought Arshavin.. etc.. etc, after he has proved his worth in PL. Arsne has that eye, and he got it right - hmm but still he cant find a replacement to Vierra -  and so did Rafa on some occassions eg Torres, Alonso etc.

    And Keane - it was widely beleived that he was Parry's buy, so again a debatble point which you cant hold Rafa against.

    Dossena - i agree Rafa made a mistalke, and People do make them. But he can prove us wrong he is in his second season only.


    Is Jhonson worth 17 M: Of course he is worth 17, may be not exactly 17 but surely around that region. Arbeloa had told in previuos season that he wanted to leave England for his home country, Rafa saw that as oppurtunity to improve one of the most weakest link in our team, and he replaced it with a Englishman.Jhonson is a better at attack compared To Arby... Aqualani more attacking than Alonso... so he is going for attack minded player... where you point out that Rafa goes only for defensive player.


    Alonso was crap or closer to it last two seasons, so Rafa tried to offload him... didnt work... Alonso plays his game of his life... Rafa wants to keep hm... Alonso says no. Come on!!! how can you support Alonso over your club? If you play good you stay or you leave. If he was a true professional, he would have know. Class my ass.

    Aqualani... we have to wait. But Rafa knew Alonso wanted to leave in April, so he has thought before he acted. So lets wait and watch.

    Babel... even I dont have a clue why he still at this club

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  123. <span style=" ">
    <div style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: #ffffff; background-position: initial initial; margin: 8px;">
    <p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">United have done quite well actually over the last two years. Examples:
    <p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> 
    <p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Macheda- Free in '07. At 17, scored two game winners that were necessary to win the title.
    <p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Tosic & Ljajic- Combined <span style=""><span style="">17mil in January '09. Tosic is shaping up to be a very good buy and will probably be a first team regular when Giggs retires. Ljajic is 17 and he's already training with the first team.</span></span>
    <p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Valencia- <span style=""><span style="">16mil this summer. Already proven to be a fantastic signing.</span></span>
    <p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"><span style=""><span style="">Mame Biram Diouf- Undisclosed fee. 42 goals in 65 games for Molde, case closed.  </span></span>
    <p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Berbatov- 30mil last summer. Scored 14 goals in all competitions and was 2nd in assists in the league, even though he didn't have a pre-season with United and he suffered a small injury. 
    <p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Rafael & Fabio- 2008, undisclosed fee. Both have already shown to be good signings. Need some work on the defensive side but they're very capable in the midfield.
    <p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;"> 
    <p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px;">Not to mention a handful of other youngsters they've signed that show great potential. Of course there have been a few that leave something to be desired (like you mentioned, Nani & Anderson, though both are still young and could blossom over the next season) but overall, United has done very well over the past two years.
    </div>
    </span>

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  124. the articale is miss leading as we have not seen Aquilani player yet. He cost around £15m not £20m but proceeds from Alonso sale  - therefore take that out. Further more Keane got sold less £2m we paid for him. Overall £73m less £38m (20m +18m) therefore Rafa has well considering the players. Man U spend that money on Bertov alone. Fact we have not the money to buy £30m players x 2 . He'll may a [profit on vorian too free transfer and sale at £3m. Profit on Aberloa. Need I say more.

    We need to be told that £50m aviable on players each season to compet with the rest. no funds for Barry even at £12m - rafa told to sell before he can buy.

    ameriana owners need £60m to pay debt and therefore taking out of club.

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  125. <table class="js-singleCommentBodyT" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%">
    <tbody>
    <tr style="vertical-align: top;">
    <td style="padding-bottom: 8px;" colspan="2">
    <div class="js-singleCommentText"><span><span style=" ">“</span></span>the articale is miss leading as we have not seen Aquilani player yet. He cost around £15m not £20m but proceeds from Alonso sale  - therefore take that out. Further more Keane got sold less £2m we paid for him. Overall £73m less £38m (20m +18m) therefore Rafa has well considering the players. Man U spend that money on Bertov alone. Fact we have not the money to buy £30m players x 2 . He'll may a [profit on vorian too free transfer and sale at £3m. Profit on Aberloa. Need I say more. 
     
    We need to be told that £50m aviable on players each season to compet with the rest. no funds for Barry even at £12m - rafa told to sell before he can buy. 
     
    ameriana owners need £60m to pay debt and therefore taking out of club.</div>
    </td>
    </tr>
    </tbody>
    </table>

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  126. Re: Arbeloa.

    Those quotes are from a year ago, so I don't agree they prove he wasn't looking to leave this summer. As we see all the time, what players say in public and what they actually think are two different things.

    And he seemed pretty happy on leaving:

    <span>

    "Since the door was opened to the possibility of coming here I was hoping for it to happen with all my heart, and I'm very happy to be able to return," he told Real Madrid TV.
    "Not even in your best dreams can you imagine that you are going to be in the Real Madrid first team.
    "Moreover, when you leave the club with the feeling of not being able to be in the first team, you know that it's very difficult to return, so for me, when this opportunity presented itself, my first objective was to take it and fortunately I'm here.
    "I'm delighted and eager to take this opportunity and get out onto the pitch to train, to play and enjoy it."
    </span>

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  127. you forgot though he sold alonso sold keane sold crouch so few other fringe players to generate the money for new players

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  128. Your point is valid appart from the comment having 1.5 mil to spend is rafas fault.

    When you are at a club like liverpool you need 30 mil minimum to spend each year to keep up with the other clubs in europe and england.

    Benitez with recouping the money should be given it to spend again. Ok Keane Babel big money signings gone wrong they happen no manger can avoid a flop at some point with big money signings.

    In that statement all that is true is Benitez has made a few transfer mistakes. The money he has re-couped should still be there to rectify that .by taking it away benitez is priced out of going for another quality long term player to give us depth.

    Conclusion : Yes benitez has made some mistakes with transfers but by re-couping the money should be able to spend it again so it's not him to blame for having 1.5 mil to spend.

    We havent had a bad 5 years since 2004 looking at what houlier left behind

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  129. So Rafa has wasted all the money in the last two years?

    Errrrrrrrr...........FERNANDO TORRES?  Was he a waste of money? Do me a favour......stop talking shite.......the yanks are to blame....no doubt about it......get those bastards out now!!!!!

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  130. and while ur at it answer Robbos FACTS with more recent comments instead of using comments from a whole yr prior. Somehow u'll dodge that one or say that ur allowed to make "inferences" but the rest of us cant infer a thing can we. Keep moving the goal posts my friend, keep moving the goal posts everytime ur "undressed".

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  131. and to jc......what are Brazil and Spain currently doing with their fullbacks.......arguably 2 of the best teams in the world are using their full backs to get up the field and provide width and attacking menace to opposing teams. I suppose Benitez could do worse than think along the same lines of Dunga and Del Bosque.

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  132. I believed Robbie Keane is not a Rafa's target, more like Rick Perry, so can't really put him at fault 100% for those flops transfers.

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  133. Jaimie,

    I agree with you that Rafa do not have much success in signing offensive players, and it's fair to say his only sucess is FT, considering that SG is a local lad, while Kuyt / Riera are decent players at best.  But you should also give him credit to his successes in signinng quality defensive players, including the likes of Reina / Skrtel / March / Agger / Alonso (if you'd count him as one since he always stayed in his own half), which many other managers (including Wenger / Hughes) are struggling with.

    And to be fair, any managers in the world would make bad signings (Forlan / Hargreaves / Berbatov / SWP / Schevenchenko to name a few), and Rafa is no exception. While I disagree with you in that I do accept managers to make mistakes in new signings, I do take your point that his bias is defenitely towards defensive-minded players, while leaving clear and obvious issues on several offensive positions (LW / RW) unresolved.

    Like you, I agree that he has made mistakes along the way (e.g. making bad buys on offensive players, rotation system, screwing up on XA, ranting SAF last season when LFC was leading 5-7 points in the EPL) which he should have done better. But you should also appreciate what he has transformed the club. Do remember, LFC was NOT even guarantee ECC football during the Huullier era, and was loaded with bad players. Even Carra was very very average rotation player under Houllier before Rafa transformed him into a solid CB. And looking forward, with the mess LFC is suffering now, could you name a manager that could (and more importantly WILLING to) come and do a better job than him?

    Realistically speaking, with such a limited budget and without Scolari's incompetence by Chelsea and the commitment in other competitions for MU (World Club Championship) this season, NO managers in the world could win the EPL for LFC against MU / Chelsea. Some naive fans might think otherwise, but whether it's Rafa or not, it won't change the situation in my view.

    And don't forget, Rafa could always choose to walk away from the mess. It's not as though LFC is the best manager position in the world. I am sure the Arabs @ Man City is more than willing to buy out his remaining contract and give him the necessary warchest to build on his fantasy team of his own.

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  134. You talk about Benitez "wasting" money, and yet he led Liverpool to a second placed finish last season !
    As for this season, it was clear for some time Arbeloa wanted to leave (hence his refusing to sign a new contract BEFORE the Glen Johnson saga.  Hyypia too wanted to leave as he wanted to be a regular ... Would you put a 35 Year Old Hyypia ahead of Agger, Skrtel or Carragher ?
    Benitez has tried to sign attack players such as Tevez or Lavezzi, but due to cash restraints he has been unable.

    yes he makes mistakes in the market, so does every manager. This summer he has MADE money for the club.  
    Robbie Keane was not "mis-managed", as he proved at the weekend, he's shit.  Benitez obviously did not want him to begin with.

    Alonso's departure is regrettable, but the 2 previous seasons Alonso had for liverpool were not that great and his performances had dipped.

    Its clear that our Owners have FAILED to back benitez, so instead of getting on our Managers back, why not support him so he can go one better and finish first ?

    Despite all his "wasted" money last season, did he not finish second?

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  135. This is just poor. And very wide of the mark. Manchester United buy unknown teenagers for around £18 million every summer. Glen Johnson is now a proven international and showed what he can give the team in the otherwise appalling performance at Spurs. Arguing about whether Arbeloa wanted to leave or not is missing the point. He was a good player but not proper world class in my opinion. He was a litlle short of pace and not a particularly good attackiong option. He was also prone to mistakes. Remember tyhe Champions League match at Stamford Bridge last year.

    Aquilani hasn't even played for Liverpool yet and we got him for between 1/2 and 2/3 the fee for Alonso. The truth is that 15 to 20 million is a relatively low fee nowadays.


    <span><span><span>"Mame Biram Diouf- Undisclosed fee. 42 goals in 65 games for Molde, case closed." What case? Tough league is it where Molde play? Is that the Welsh league? I scored 26 goals for Tuebrook under 11's one year.</span></span></span>

    Of more concern for me is the quality of some of Liverpool's youngsters. Yes we have a few decent prospects, but generally they are just not making the grade. Hopefully this is improving. But I cant see that we will be matching Man United or Man City or Chelsea or even Spurs for transfer money in the near future. So we need to bring some quality youngsters through.
    "

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  136. I get a feel that you simply want to argue for the sake of it. Unsupported views which only have any consistency when ignoring some well known facts (Hyypia wanting to leave, Arbeloa having only a year left on his contract etc.).

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  137. This is a very one sided story. Benitez didn't want to sell Alonso this year and hasn't been able to use all the money he recouped. How can this be his fault? At least we got premium money fot Alonso as well of the profit from the likes of Leto. If he had been allowed to buy Barry we wouldn't be in this predicament.  Sounds like a case of Benitez bashing to me. In total he spent less than 30 mil on Riera and Torres who combine would be worth 90 - 100 mil. Isn't that bordering on genius?

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  138. "but if you spouted the same cliches as the posted above (Parry incharge of transfers/ Parry signed Keane;Houlliers's squad was crap etc), then yes, i would think you'd been brainwashed by the media."

    where did u get the 1.5 mil left figure? looks like u are brainwashed too. either that or have absolutely no actual proper sources linked to the club to write the bs that u do

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  139. Molde is in Norway, I had the same Welsh thought too, so had to Google it lol ;-)

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  140. I am going to stick my neck out and say Jamie has a point.

    I have never agreed with him previously and as has been mentioned he takes it too far more often than not. Obviously There is no way for us to know the inner workings of the transfer market and I find it useless to speculate on Rafa's policy or the Americans'.

    However, I have felt over the last couple of years that Rafa has been negative in the transfer market. He seems to consistently go for solid, workman like players over anything resembling flair. Obviously Torres is awesome but I always though Keane was overrated. I like the Johnson signing but Dossena and Lucas have been mediocre at best.

    I'm not about to do the research, but I think it would be something interesting that Jamie could do, but if you compare the signings of Liverpool vs the rest of the to 6, say, I think you would see a distinct trend of Rafa opting for workrate and defence over flair and attacking prowess.

    I'm not suggesting individual signings are good or bad, but the overall policy seems off for me. 

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  141. I agree with most your points. Benitez has been weak in the transfer market and he has spent a bundle since arriving. He has bought a few good players, but his overall performance in the transfer market is average at best.
    I don't understand he's got the nerve to complain about lack of funds. He has had tons since he arrived, it's his own fault for misusing it.

    Maybe he needs a better scouting network and have some ice in his stomach. I read Arsenals cheif scout personally watches a bundle of matches before any player is ever signed. Can be 50 games before they make a desision (Live and/or video). As well as Wenger watching lots of video of potential signings, he say he's often watching football until 4 AM.

    Rafa seems much more rash in his transfer desicions.

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  142. <p>Jamie,
    <p>Its always interesting when people crunch number with Liverpool so lets be fair – you have commented on the last two seasons so lets see what the actual figures are. I don’t want to discuss the signing of Keane, if rafa wanted him or not as none of us know and can only speculate.
    <p> 
    <p>Bought:
    <p>Martin Skrtel - £6.5m
    <p>Masch £17m
    <p>Degen £free
    <p>Dossena £7m
    <p>Cavalieri £3.5m
    <p>Ngog £1.5m
    <p>Keane £19m
    <p>Riera £8m
    <p>Johnson £17.1
    <p>Ayala £undisclosed
    <p>Aquilani £15
    <p>Total £94.6m
    <p> 
    <p>Sold:
    <p>Sissok £8.2
    <p>Peltier £free
    <p>Rise £4m
    <p>Kewell £free
    <p>La Tallec £free
    <p>Crouch £11m
    <p>Guthrie £2.25
    <p>Carson £3.25m
    <p>Finnan £undisclosed
    <p>Keane £16m
    <p>Hobbs £undisclosed
    <p>Anderson £250k
    <p>Pennant £free
    <p>Roque £free
    <p>Leto £3m
    <p>Arbs £3.5m
    <p>Alonso £30m
    <p>Total: 81.45
    <p>£13 million over two seasons. 

    <p> 
    <p>has the squad improved? Depends on Aquilani. £6.5m spent over the past two season and to only just miss the league - not to bad is it?

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  143. Lots of interesting points of view but you've failed to point out the 7M that was owed to liverpool from the crouch deal thus making the Johnson deal a 'steal' in the modern climate (Just under 10M) for an attacking fullback who is an english first choice and who will increase our attacking options due to the style of play / formation we have. Dont think of Johnson as a RB as you will see him more and more this season as a RW against the so called lesser sides.

    Arbeloas head was turned by Real Madrid and NOT and direct result of anything Benitez had done. Arbeloa had 1 year left on his contract so some might say any this was a good deal to get what we could at this stage of his contract. As for Hyypia well experience is important but the only key asset he was bringing to the team last season was an aerial ability that was second to none. He consistently got turned and 'done' for pace so was allowed to leave for free due to his contract being up and the yearning for first team football.

    Yes benitez has made the odd mistake but his track record is actually very good in the market compared to the other so called 'big teams.' for every degen and voronin (who were both free transfers might I add) and dossenna, he has bought well with the aquisitions of skrtel, Agger, Torres etc etc. The ratio is actually quite good. As for the comment that Wenger gets his transfers right how people forget!!! Richard wright, Francis Jeffers, Senderos, Bendtner lots of 'mistakes' to choose from so no one is perfect.

    Dont hate, believe in Rafa, YNWA

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  144. You've taken some old quote to justify you're opinion. His comments as he left were this:

     "Since the door was opened to the possibility of coming here I was hoping for it to happen with all my heart, and I'm very happy to be able to return," Arbeloa told RealmadridTV.  
    "Not even in your best dreams can you imagine that you are going to be in the Real Madrid first team."

    So basically at one point he was happy playing for Liverpool as you state. However we then bought Glenn Johnson, Arbeloa refused to sign a new contract with only a year left on it, so we sold him to Real or we could have kept him for another year and lost him on free, hence "wasting more money".

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  145. Usual bollocks. I should learn to recognise the links to this site. Maybe you should stick to the aviation magazines, Mr Kanwar, cos the broadsheets ain't gonna be breaking down your door to make you a football writer.

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  146. Good point Andrew, but Jaimie will tell you for the hundreth time that he thinks it doesn't matter what you recoup. As that doesn't fit in to his theory that Rafa has wasted money! It doesn't matter to Jaimie that the net spend is nominal and in doing so we have become a much better team than we were five years ago. He doesn't like Rafa so will definitly not listen to a theory that shows he has done pretty well in the transfer market considering the funds available to him.

    Yes we've spent some money on players that didn't work out as planned, but we've also bought some very good players that did. But Jaimie won't look at the bigger picture.  He'll argue that black is white if he really believed it.

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  147. Good point Andrew, but Jaimie will tell you for the hundreth time that he thinks it doesn't matter what you recoup. As that doesn't fit in to his theory that Rafa has wasted money! It doesn't matter to Jaimie that the net spend is nominal and in doing so we have become a much better team than we were five years ago. He doesn't like Rafa so will definitly not listen to a theory that shows he has done pretty well in the transfer market considering the funds available to him.

    Yes we've spent some money on players that didn't work out as planned, but we've also bought some very good players that did. But Jaimie won't look at the bigger picture.  He'll argue that black is white if he really believed it.

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  148. Andrew - thanks for your comments.There are some players missing from your 'bought' list, mostly young players for undisclosed fees. Anyway, I see your point but money recouped is not the issue here; what matters is how Benitez chooses to spend the money he has at the time.

    This is now the tenth time I've asked this question on this thread: What difference does money recouped make to benitez's decision to buy the likes of Dossena and Keane?  Absolutely nothing.

    Comparing gross vs. net only matters when the money recouped is not given to Benitez to spend, something which is a completely separate issue.

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  149. Okay - stop dodging the issue and EXPLAIN why money recouped matters.  Everyone keeps asserting that it matters but WHY is it so important?!  I challenge you to explain this point.

    It doesn't matter if money is recouped later - that does not change the fact that money was wasted at the time.

    Furthermore. you are discounting other important things: missed opportunities through buying the wrong players, for example.  What might have been if the 27m spent on Dossena and Keane was spent on players who turned out to be effective.

    If liverpool end up dropping out of title contention by october, we can legitimately question what might have been if Benitez had signed a non-injured player able to make an impact from DAY ONE of the season.

    Stop blindly asserting that money recouped and net spend is so important and EXPLAIN why it is. 

    By using net spend as an excuse, you are basically saying that:

    a) It is okay to waste money/buy the wrong players as long as we claw some money back later down the line

    b) It is okay for the team to suffer in terms of effectiveness/winning trophies as long as net spend balances out somewhere down the line.

    What nonsense.

    I would rather the RIGHT players were bought (i.e. players who can actually play and/or make an impact) and win something than use net spend as an excuse for failure.

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  150. I'd usually delete this comment but I think I'll respond to this:  
     
    1) I do not write for aviation magazines, I proofread them.  I am a freelance proofreader, amongst other things. 
     
    2. I've had the opportunity to write for two particular newspapers but I declined.  Why do you think I have this site?  I want to write what I want without having to adhere to someone else's editorial policy. I wouldn't write for a newspaper anyway; that is not my goal.  Besides, I have the best job in the world already, and there's no way I'm leaving ;-)

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  151. I agree with some aspects of this post, for example the buying of 17m RB, when we need a Right winger... don't get me wrong i love kuyt, i love his work rate and his ethics, and ive heard people compare him to monster masch. However Masch isn't a Right winger and neither is Kuyt, too many times he loses the ball with sloppy first touches, too many times he runs into dead ends and is forced to go back wards, and his crossing is poor too. This for me is our major concern, and has i have stated i love Kuyt's work ethics his tracking back, his tackling an his constant pressure on players... but he lacks alot going forward, and it is costing us.

    I disagree on alot of the area's in which you have stated, we bought keane, and rafa sold him 6 months later for being poor (there are questions around as to whether it was Rafa that even wanted Keane here) However i respect Rafa for not sticking with him, and recouping the maximum back for him, we don't have the luxery to hold onto players that just aint cutting it (unlike manu (berb), chelsea (shev)).

    The questions you need to be asking are these .... In Jan we sold Keane for £15-16m, we bought no-one in. We was then given a reported transfer kitty of £20m plus player sales... We bought Johnson for £17m (some of the money was already owed to us) so around £11m. We sell Alonso for £30+m and buy <span>Alberto Aquilani for £20m - Do the Math people and you will see it is the Americans undermining Rafa's transfer policy and forcing him to buy players who are not first choice. Where did the money from Keane go?? where as the £10m left over from Alonso go??</span>

    Rafa as reshaped our youth academy and i believe this will win us the league, im not optimistic bout our chances this year, but in the coming years we will see... He is doing the right thing for the long term progression of our club, without spending huge sums on players we just can not afford. My only questions are as stated above, the buying of a 17m RB and why Kuyt is still in the team. (as stated i rate kuyt highly, but he doesnt have the class required to be a Right winger)

    So the question i ask is where is all our money going, and why isnt anyone wondering why the £16m for Keane wasnt a part of this years transfer kitty... anyone??

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  152. I acutally don't really get the logic behind this "Portsmouth still owed us 7m from the Crouch deal" whenever the fee for Johnson gets mentioned. If you do mention it, then you have to deduct it from the fee we've received for Crouch. The steal then is actually the transfer of Crouch to Pompey for 2m or so.

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  153. as much as i would like it to poke jamie in the eye with them figures u forgot to add torres. he was bought 2 seasons ago.
    sorry dude.

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  154. as much as i would like it to poke jamie in the eye with them figures u forgot to add torres. he was bought 2 seasons ago.
    sorry dude.

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  155. The problem is that you think that every time you buy a player, regardless of how much is spent, it has to work. Which is why you think spending £7 million on Dossena is a "waste" of money. I don't necessarily consider that a waste of money. He's an Italian international left back, so at the time I don't think anyone really had a problem with us spending that sort of money on him. Unfortunately it hasn't worked out for him. If we then sell him on and put that money towards another player who does work out for us then it matters what you recoup. The same with Keane. At the time I though the price was a bit much but I thought we were buying a proven PL striker. I honestly thought he was the missing piece between us being also rans to us being proper title challengers. I, amongst many, including the Liverpool board were wrong.  
    The money spent on a player is an investment, some investment reap rewards, as Torres, Skrtel, Agger, Alonso, Riera, Mascherno, Kuyt, Banayoun, Alonso have done. Some investments fail; Keane, Dossena, Babel to some extent.
    Tell me truthfully that at the time you didn't think Babel or Keane were a good buy? The price for Keane may have been inflated but we pay inflated prices for good British players in the PL.
    The reason why recouped money matters is because it shows us fans that we are working on tight budgets. We have to sell to buy. Its shows to us that we don't have a rich sugar daddy who is willing to bank roll the club. And most importantly it shows to me that Rafa is NOT wasting money. He has taken a punt on a couple of players which has failed but you name me one manager who has not bought a player who hasn't worked out. You can't because there is no such manager.  
    Yes for £27 million we could have brought a class player, but we didn;t we bought two players who we thought would do a job, but unfortunately it didn't. So we sell recoup some money and look elsewhere. Alonso, £10.5m, sold for £30m. This is all recouped money Jaimie. You then look at investing that money elsewhere. However sometimes you make a loss on player, like Keane. Yes in hindsight he wasn't the best deal for us, but at the time we thought he was and it didn't work out.
    You need to learn to look at the bigger picture. Liverpool FC is a business. I would say that with the limited budget we have Rafa has doen a great job overall. In hindsight it seems we made some mistakes but at the time it was considered that it worth the risk. And Rafa has had more hits than misses when its come to spending large quantities of money.

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  156. Thanks for your comments.  No, at the time I didn't think Keane and Babel were good buys.  I wrote articles at the time stating this.

    So recouped money is important because it illustrates to the fans thew true financial position of the club?  Maybe, but I don't see how this is relevant to what is being discussed here.  Many people on this thread have argued that money paid for players who didn't work out doesn't matter as long as the money is recouped later down the line.

    My argument is that money recouped later has no bearing on the quality of player Benitez chooses to buy when he has money available.  Using net spend is just a wau to muddy the waters and distract attention away from the real issue, i.e. Benitez's questionable signings. Example:

    * Benitez signs Keane and Dossena for 27m.
    * Both players fail to make any kind of impact
    * Keane is sold 6 months after being signed

    My view: 20m wasted.  If the money had been spent on someone who would fit in and be effective, Liverpool's chances of winning a trophy may conceivably have increased.

    Your view: Well, it's okay that 20m was wasted because we got 16m back 6 months later.  Therefore the net spend was only 4m.

    Saying that does not change the fact that:

    * 20m was wasted originally
    * The team suffered because the player did not make a contribution
    * The team suffered because a more effective player was not bought instead.

    it's all well and good making money back but the consequences of buying the wrong players are there for all to see: our squad is lacking in depth and quality.

    The same principles apply to the signings of Babel and Dossena - just imagine if both these players were actually making a positive contribution since they arrived.  That would've enhanced the team and perhaps led to us not being trophyless for the last three years.

    The proof is in the pudding: Liverpool have failed to win anything since 2006.  That time period coincides with the arrivals of Babel, Lucas, Voronin, Degen, Dossena and Keane.

    Coincidence?  No.  It is a consequence of Benitez not buying the right players with the money he had.

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  157. I'll tell u y money recouped matters. In the same vein that money spent at the time could be viewed  as "wasted" by u........money recouped in the transfer market could be used to sign the "RIGHT" players in the same transfer market. look at this transfer season for example.money recouped through the sales of Alonso, Arbeloa et al could be used to right the "wrongs" (as u see it) of previous yrs or add to the squad as required. 

    Now seeing that dealings in the transfer market are not 100% guaranteed doesn't the ability to recoup significant $$ on a so-called failed signing become important in terms of getting replacement players like a Michael Turner or Shawcross or that Amrobeita fella Rafa was said to have his eye on? Couldn't money recouped in this yrs transfer market be used to add the CREATIVE player u crave?? Or as is clearly evident in our case.......Couldn't $$ recouped be used to pay down debt??? No manager is perfect in the market and Rafa is no different.

    And before u complain about the 20M spent on Aquilani and 17M on Johnson (1 goal created, 1 goal scored in 2 games......pretty good return so far), consider that the manager by all reports that the manager was operating on certain orders and having fashioned a nice kiity for himself was raided for the sake of paying down debt. Debunk that myth!!!!

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  158. all i have to say is that johnson played insanely well today and is proving his worth :)

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  159. Jamie your comments almost constitute as slander. Dossena is still at the club: so he still has time to contribute. Glen Johnson: have you now seen his performance against Stoke. He's gonna make you eat your words. Reira yes was a good buy. Aqualini: you've based a complete opinion on him before he has kicked a ball. Nonsense. Rafa is wonderful in the transfer market, period.

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  160. What do you mean 'eat my words' when it comes to Johnson?  I merely suggested that he was overpriced; I did not question his ability.  Stop twisting my words, eh? ;)

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  161. No Jaimie its not my view that its ok that £20m is spent as long as we recoup £16m. You've misrepresented what I said. My view is that every player is a gamble, some which work, some which don't. No manager has a 100% record of success in transfers in football. When a player is not a success you sell him and look for a better replacement. So that why recouping money matters. It doesn't excuse the purchase in the first place, but it plays a part in how a club progresses.

    If you look at Rafa's more expensive purchases, more are successes than not:

    Successes - Torres, Mascherano, Alonso, Skrtel, Agger, Kuyt, Crouch, Garcia, Sissoko, Auerlio, Arbeloa, Benayoun, Riera, Reina. I would even add Lucas to this list as he seems to be improving and Glen Johnson from whay I've seen so far. I reserve judgement on Aquilani

    Failures - Keane, Babel ( but only because he has reached his potential), Bellamy, Morientes (only because he didn't fit in with English football, we all know he was a quality player), Pennant (perennial underachiever but had the potential), possibly Dossena (although I don't actually think he's that bad), Gonzalez

    Then there's a whole list of squad players who were very cheap and don't matter too much as they were squad fillers- Josemi, Kromkamp, Palletta, Leto, Nunez, Pellegrino.

    Looking at those lists I would say that more often than not, Rafa has done pretty well on transfers. What you'll also notice is that the players that weren't a success have all been sold on, some at a profit, and have been replaced with better players from the money recouped.

    Yes we haven't won anything since 2006, which you link to purchases such as Voronin, Degen, Lucas, Dossena, Keane, Babel.  Please stop spouting nonsense, these players are all squad players with the exception of Keane. Well we also bought Torres in 2006. Maybe it because of him that we haven't won anything too or Mascherano.

    By the way i found an article that you wrote and found the following quote

    "I have absolutely no doubt that if allowed to actually play consistently, both Keane and Babel could have been very effective players for the club."

    So these are the two players that you wrote at the time were a waste of money. Yet in this quote you say that had they been given the opportunity they could have both been very effective players for Liverpool. So which is it Jaimie? Are they a waste a money, or given the chance could they have been effective for us? "Absolutely no doubt..." Let me say that again "Absolutely no doubt..."

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  162. Yes- he'll make you eat your word when you said he is overpriced. If he constantly plays well, if we win the league, will he be overpriced then?

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  163. Good comments, Gary.  Re my previous comments re keane and Babel:  I see you deliberately missed out the part that preceded the comment:

    <span>Another pertinent point to consider: With Keane and Babel, Benitez has totally wasted over £30m of the club’s money.

    £30m!

    And that's not including salaries.</span>


    There is no conflict in what I'm suggesting.  If a player is ineffective - for whatever reason - he is a waste of money.

    Keane and Babel have been misused by Benitez.  Keane was subbed or on the bench in 28 of his 33 appearance.  he was dropped every time he scored a goal.  Babel has never had a fair run in the team and has never ben allowed to play his natural position.

    IF they had been treated fairly and allowed to play regularly, I have no doubt that they would have been effective.  This does not change the fact that they are a waste of money.  It's all aboout what might have been.

    And look at what I said again: IF allowed the play consistently they COULD have been very effective players for the club

    a) If benitez had played them regularly
    b) they might have been effective players

    of the above, I have no doubt.

    However, the reality is different: they weren't played consistently and have not really made a consistent contribution, therefore they are a waste of money.

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  164. No, he will be worth the money.  That doesn't mean that at the time of his signing we can't question the transfer fee.  Players have to justify their fees, do they not?

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  165. I think Glen Johnson gives Liverpool a great push up forward, so ja, necessary

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  166. NAME A SINGLE TRANSFER WINDOW THAT HAS GONE BY WITHOUT US SPENDING BIG MONEY? i DONT MEAN CHELSEA BIG MONEY JUST A DECENT AMOUNT TO TINKER THE SQUAD WITH.
    IF YOU SERIOUSLY THINK RAFA WILL STAND ON A STREET CORNER SAYING I HAVE 30 MILLION LEFT ANYONE WANNA SELL IS THE WAY BUSINESS IS PERFORMED IN THE REAL WORLD, THEN MR HACK JOURNO WANNA PLAY POKER?

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  167. "<span>It sickens me that Liverpool again failed to pull out all the stops to sign a proven creative player, yet the club is willing to spend big bucks on defensive-minded players like Johnson..."</span>

    That's a little stronger than questioning the transfer fee.

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  168. In my defence, I was merely making the point that once again, Liverpool spend lots of money on a (ostensibly) a defensive-minded player but were unwilling to a mere 12m for Andrei Arshavin. if I could choose not, I'd still take Arshavin over Johnson, wouldn't you?

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  169. I totally appreciate what your trying to do with this blog etc but how can one person moan so much about a club they support???? We need to get behind the players, manager, staff and club as a whole.....I appreciate that your comments are your opinion but you never have anything good to say, which granted seems the point but how can Rafa plan when he is being told one thing and then the owners change the terms.......clearly not Rafa's fault and if you are going to moan why not make it to good use and talk about the owners who are trying there hardest to upset another, what could be great, season!!!! Rafa has made errors but who doesnt?? come on you have to be sick of moaning already and the season has only just started!!!!!!

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  170. Thanks for your comments, Andy.  You're not really being fair though - this idea that I 'never have anything good to say' is blatantly inaccurate.  There are lots of positive articles on the site: POSITIVE ARTICLES

    Furthermore, the things I highlight are legitimate points of discussion, are they not?  Just because they're not all positive doesn't mean they should be brushed under the carpet.

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  171. I totally agree Jaimie, however, I do think that the reason for the lack of funds are not just down to Rafa's spending a lot has too do with the owners and their lack of passion for  the club.....I hope we do have more funds and I suppose only time will tell?? I think GJ is a good purchase, ok £17m may sound a bit steep but he gives us something extra and seems to have clicked with Kuyt. Keane, could have and lets be honest should have been a good signing but it just did not happen for him and we did manage to get at least some funds back in for him albeit still a loss. dossena with the exception of scoring against Man U was poor but it was his 1st season but granted you would expect more for £7m however, played better left mid than left back...Reira played well no issues here....Aquilani....not even kicked a ball yet so how can you judge???? - Lucas give him a chance maybe he needs a run in the team to prove his worth....Ngog....still young needs experience and lets be honest £1.5m is hardly breaking the bank on the scale of things....Voronin - free transfer worth a punt given his previous record....Babel so much promise but agree he needs to deliver -Degan....terrible but free transfer my opinion would be to sell I would rather see Derby get a chance in the 1st team. So all in all these players were purchased because of the cash constraints put on Rafa by the Americans and it would not surprise me if we had to go after these players because Rafa's no1 targets were already snapped up because Rick Parry was still in his bed sleeping when he should have been conducting deals!!!! 

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  172. This is where you and I differ. If a player is ineffective i don't necessarily jump to the conclusion that they are waste of money. I don't believe it is as black and white as that, and therefore I maintain that Rafa has not wasted money. I actually think that in most cases money has been spent wisely.

    Every player, regardless of how much they cost is a gamble. Take Morientes as a perfect example. Brilliant in La Liga, a proven goalscorer with a good touch, didn't play well at Liverpool.

    Babel, young player with lot of potential, but has only shown that potential in glimpses and in two years here hasn't improved. You could argue that that he needs a run of a few games but every time he has been given the opportunity to start a game he has failed miserably. In the PL you cannot afford to carry a player. Against Spurs we may as well have had 10 men on the pitch. I cannot think of one game that he started and played well. But again I don't believe he is a waste of money, it was a gamble on a young player that didn't pay off. If it had worked out for Babel, we'd all be praising Rafa for finding a quality young player for £10m. I also don't buy the arument that we're playing him out out of position. For Holland he plays on the left. As a talented footballer he should be able to transfer those skills to benefit the team. And will he really ever get in to his preferred position ahead of Torres or errard. You'll recall that Thierry Henry started of a winger for Monaco and Juventus, and became one of the best strikers in the game. Rooney regularly played out on the left although he prefers to play up front. Gerrard has been used on the right, on the left, holding midfield, attacking midfield, striker, right back etc. I believe the problem with Babel is himself.  

    Keane is a different matter altogether- its an odd case. A proven PL striker, a intelligent footballer who I thought would fit into the team perfectly yet it didn't happen for him. He was substituted in every game, but in most of those games he was pretty poor. But i still don't consider it a waste of money. And that is why there is no way for us to agree. You automatically consider an ineffective player a waste of money. I know that football is not a clear cut as that, and that every manager has made their fair share of mistakes in the transfer market.

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  173. Any reason my post was deleted? Sent yesterday.

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  174. Jaimie regards to this "EXPLAIN why money recouped matters.  Everyone keeps asserting that it matters but WHY is it so important? -

    I will give you two examples of where money recouped does matter a great deal. Without Owen being sold for the measly albeith 9 million and Danny Murphy for 3.5 million. It enabled Liverpool to go buy Alonso and Garcia for combined fees of 16-17 million back in the summer of 2004.

    Most of the transfer budget was used because Houllier and the club before Rafa arrived sanctioned the Cisse deal beforehand for 14 million. Money did matter hugely there for Benitez it enabled him use the money to buy both Garcia and Alonso.

    Sissoko, was sold at profit and the fee enabled Liverpool get Mascherano on a proper deal later that summer of 2007 to secure him to the club.

    Part of the Bellamy 7.5 million was definitely used as part of the deal to get Torres into the club.

    Paul Tomkins has said this on a number of occasions sometimes espeically in this article;

    http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/archivedirs/news/2009/jan/26/NG163004090126-1107.htm

    He wrote this article at the beginning of the year. But he shows a lot insight in how progession has being made and the end jusifies the means.

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  175. You are as ever an absolute clown, I posted and picked holes in many of your arguements and magically it didn't appear. If you want to debate a subject deleting anything your unable to answer is not the way to  go about it.

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  176. Jaimie you're sooooo boring. Just give up and grow a pair.

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  177. when will the americans sell the club to somebody with real intentions of bringing us the league :(

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