24 January 2013

Transfer-killer? Should LFC abandon £8m Coutinho deal over this potential snag...?

Liverpool are currently locked in a battle with Southampton to secure the signing of Inter Milan attacker Philippe Coutinho, but even if the Reds win this particular transfer race, there is one more major obstacle in the way.

According to a report in The Telegraph today, Liverpool have put in an improved £8m bid for the Brazilian attacker, but there's a barrier in the way that needs to be resolved:

"Coutinho will require a work permit to seal a move to the Premier League".

Players without a work permit are ineligible to play in the Premier League or for any other member of the Football League.

To have the work permit approved:

* The player must have appeared in at least 75 percent of his national team's competitive A matches during the previous two years. If this didn't happen because of injury, the club must provide written evidence documenting the player's injury history.

* The national team must be ranked in the top 70 in the official FIFA world soccer rankings.

Coutinho has made only one senior appearance for the Brazil national team (back in 2010), so he immediately fails on that front; and with only 37 appearances for Inter, he also doesn't have great experience at club level.

The denial of work permits is a regular occurrence; indeed, at this time last year, QPR were on the verge of signing Brazilian attacker Henrique, but club couldn't secure a work permit for the player, mainly due to the fact he failed the national team requirement.

Former Liverpool midfielder Sebastian Leto also fell foul of the work permit rules, and he had to leave Anfield as a result.

Hopefully, Liverpool will have thought this through, but what's the point of spending £8m on a player if he can't play and/or there is uncertainty over whether he'll be able to play at some point in the future?

If the club is splashing out in the hope that a work permit will be granted (i.e. through the 'exceptional talent' loophole), then it's a huge gamble.

The club - along with the Brazilian FA - will have to prove that Coutinho is an 'exceptional talent', and just being Brazilian isn't enough (!)

What happens if the work permit is denied? Is Coutinho an exceptional talent, and if so, why?

Jaimie Kanwar

NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy

104 comments:

  1. i remeber there is other rule for young players defined as wonderkid. otherwise how could manu sign Rafael and his brother several years ago?

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  2. I am sure the club would have sussed this out before making a bid. 

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  3. Newsflash - PC is currently injured.

    Great research.

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  4. Other examples like japanese winger Ryo at Arsenal and korean winger Lee at Bolton. When they came to EPL, they haven't even been national players....It's not a problem for youth

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  5. we shud get in for moussa sissoko and  jack butt-land.

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  6. maybe thats fsgs excuse when we don,t sign him another dead transfer saga,i personally dont think he will make much of an impact at anfield if he comes,if he dose hope i,am wrong

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  7. one law for old whiskey nose and one for the rest

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  8. I'd like to think the club know what they're doing while pursuing a player needing a work permit. Didn't Lucas fall into a similar scenario before he joined?

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  9. Cant they just buy the work permit wavier option? Like on Football Manager?

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  10. This is all up in the air at the moment, but if we do lose out to Southampton  AGAIN Someone should be asking some very serious questions about our transfer policy.

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  11. Newsflash. Learn to read - the player has to have played 75% of international matches over a *2 year period*. A recent injury is irrelevant to that time period. 

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  12. I agree, but the fact is he needs a work permit, and doesn't seem to fit the criteria to get one.

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  13. SAD.... Ur antogism is sad... This ur teams forum, u don't need him in the discussion ... Hope U r an lfc fan n not just some SAF hater.... U guys can't even discuss ur own transfer dealing without mentioning him... SAD

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  14. Before he signed for Bolton, Lee had already made 10 appearances for South Korea.

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  15. Did I not see a loophole around this a few weeks back? I think I saw something that said a player can pay 1 million as an investment in the UK and he is then granted a work permit. I am sure the club would pay this and not the player but the actual payment would come from the player. Maybe somebody else can shed some light on that.

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  16. I would hope they have looked into this, and have a work permit lined up, or have good advice he will be granted one. Missing the Oldham game is no biggie, as he will still take a while to recover form injury and to get match fit. Which is my bigger point and problem. I`ve no doubt that he looks pretty creative, however when we need players asap, why are we going for someone who is injured and only just coming back... again. 

    I`m 50/50 on this guy, some parts of his game look good, and others make me feel he wont work at all. 

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  17. to be honest, the example you gave is void because rafael and fabio have dual nationaltiy including portuguese which is in the eu. and also how does the panel of judges decide if someone is a wonderkid, this isnt football manager. really though, coutinho should get a work permit because he will be a first team player which i know isnt an official requirement but i believe it helps. who knows though, because leto didnt get a work permit (something im still very bitter about), but denilson of arsenal did even when he was still a teenager.

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  18. lucas holds an italian passport or something to do with being italian in some way so he didnt need a work permit.

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  19. The whole set up of work perimits, is wrong IMO. I mean how come other european countries are allowed to sign them, when we can`t. Surely under EU law, these rules must be the same? Clearly they aren`t, which then leads me to why not? I can understand if the worry was using a club to ship lots of people into the country who will never play or get paid, and be used as a way to almost smuggle people in, but when the player in hand will most likely be on around 50k min per week and cost over the 8mil mark that argument seems somewhat silly, surely it is clear he will be paying his way in taxes etc. 

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  20. Possible, but if true, how come other players who got turned down  had to leave? surely the clubs would have just paid the £1mil.

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  21. FSGarbage hanging the latch again, just pay the going price if you really want him. According to reports S'ampton have already offered more money and money talks - loudly. FSgarbage's transfer policy is EVERY POUND IS A PRISONER ! Tight fisted penny-pinchers.

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  22. i agree with you about the rules being stupid and the country certainly would benefit from the taxes they get. but its not just our country that has stupid rules, in italy they have restrictions about the amount of non-eu players they can sign each season from abroad, and in spain there is a maximum allowed to be registered. i dont see why it should matter where a footballer comes from, its obvious theyre in the country as employed people who will pay their way.

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  23. no they are our saviours they saved us and we should be gratful forever more i,ve decided i,am not bothered if we never sign a class player ever again as long as fsg get a good profit the club should except that without fsg we would be dead,and just forget about results on the pitch and concentrate on making fsg money 

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  24. I am not sure to be honest mate but I am pretty sure I read something about this a few weeks back as they wanted to close the loophole but I can't remember the details. I will see if I can find the article I read to try and shed some light on it.

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  25. Hi Zanatos, I found the following info:

    Tier 1 Investors – At least GBP1 Million available
    Wealthy individuals who plan to make a substantial financial investment in the UK can come under the Investor sub-category of Tier 1. At least £1,000,000 of disposable funds is required. Investors are exempt from both the English language requirement and the requirement to provide further proof of the ability to support themselves and any dependants. This sub-category is designed for very wealthy individuals who wish to live in the UK.

    Can they not get around the permit with this ruling? Not sure if it applies to footballers or just businessmen.

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  26. If we truly are in for Countinho, then surely LFC are aware of work permit requirements etc. if not, it's time to pack it in

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  27. There is a way a club can get young players who don't meet the usual criteria in. Doesn't always work though. Found this elsewhere:

    In fairness to the system, players don’t always need to meet the criteria for international appearances. If a work permit application is rejected, clubs can appeal to a panel – consisting of FA, PFA and league reps, as well as three ex-pros and managers – who consider whether the player is “of the highest calibre” and will “contribute significantly to the development of the game at the top level in England”.

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  28. Nice research. Hope this applies. Must agree, if we are going for the player, on a serious level,I'm sure this will be part of the dealings.

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  29. hes ok his grandad had a weeks holiday in dublin and sank a few pints of the blackstuff. so through his irish roots its sorted

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  30. The stupidity of this article is staggering.

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  31. under 23 's quallifi as young and gifted and come under different rules the fact he has been in Europe for so long may qualify him for a passport in the not to distant future but anyone who chooses Saints over Liverpool is doing it purley for the money and as such we dont want that kind of player at our club full stop Saints need to cast an eye down the road at Portsmouth and they will see where there future lies Get rid of decent manager (Check)Replace him with some unknown (Check)Sign lots of players above market Value (Check)Pay them massive wages above what the club can afford (check)Get Rellegated (?)Go Bust (?)these players are 10 a penny miss one go for next on the list dont worry to much
      

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  32. its more commonly known as a BUNG !

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  33. Did you just completely ignore the question at the end,  I don't think I need to do research to know that before Lucas joined Liverpool he had not played 75% of Brazil's matches if any at all and lets be honest how many people considered him an 'Exceptional talent' then. Could you explain to me how we then got a work permit for him?

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  34. wonder if he ll enjoy the champion ship next season?

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  35. Ignore my reasoning above just found out that he descends from Italy and therefore has an Italian passport

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  36. Nice find Gerry. I would imagine it means that the person in the case, needs to have min of 1mil in the bank. Plus have a way to provide for themselves, and family, of which a wage from LFC would provide. The deal would then need a extra £1mil from us, to sit in his bank, which would actually need to be higher, due to taxes. I`m guessing it is a lot more cheaper just to employ a lawyer and try to prove your case of why he should be allowed to gain a work permit.

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  37. Jason, can you show a example of this good profit, I hear you mention a lot in your posts?

    It`s worth noting, not just to you, but in general, that FSG had to settle out of court to H & G for a undisclosed sum. I imagine it weren`t small though. That might explain one reason why the purse strings have been tightened

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  38. RAFASdaysWEREtheGLORYdays5:35 p.m., January 24, 2013

    What a country we live in,let all the millions of illegal aliens and asylum seekers in,house them in Knightsbridge at the taxpayers expense,give them every benefit under the sun.Yet PC would come in at £20k a week and half of that would go in tax to help keep the country afloat.Sometimes i just wish this pathetic island would sink.

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  39. With regards to the loophole. If an individual has 1 million to invest in the UK then they would be eligible for an investor visa, this could circumvent the rules pertaining to a work permit.

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  40. very true mate .this country is f"ckin nuts. bnp is deffo gettin my vote next time .just watched the box set of boys from the blackstuff this country is now back in the 80s but are only comfort was what a great side we had then .no jobs but plenty of f"ckin cups!

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  41. There is a lot of fuss about this player, maybe too much fuss.
    As for the work permit, well, if Man U were trying to sign him, he surely would be considered an exceptional talent.

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  42. How about Ángelo Henríquez, 1 cap. Could it be that Man U get an easy ride when trying to acquire that work permit?

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  43. I really have problems reading this.

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  44. Thought Lucas holds an Italian passport.

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  45. Not sure whether EU law covers this one. Anyway, the UK have not signed the Schengen treaty either, so some EU laws do not apply in all countries.

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  46. We should start asking questions about Southampton's newly found riches. Where is that money coming from. Are they just some sort of money laundering vehicle?

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  47. they had to settle because they got the club very cheap f2ck sake we were valued less than newcastle they were not the best bid on the table but some chelsea banker thought they were i wonder why sorry we all know bankers don,t tell lies

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  48. He was on loan at Español last season when the boss was Maurico Pochettino so they've worked together before. Third time Saints have jumped in and taken one of our targets though. WTF is happening?

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  49. cops? except when you need one then there like rocking horse shit

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  50. Is there any proof that FSG had to settle out of court with H&G? I heard H&G were told where to go and it was kept undisclosed to "save their blushes". Analysis from a lawyer suggested that this was the outcome based on the wording and analysis of what happened after and whilst certainly not to be taken as gospel, it did seem to be a sensible analysis of what may have happened.

    In terms of getting the club cheaply, one must remember the amount of debt that was attached to the club at the time along with the fact a new stadium was required and investment on the pitch required, hence the value was not so cheap after all.

    Also, given the debt the club was under and the inability of H&G to repay that debt it seems as if RBS legally had a pretty strong case, this seemed to be backed up by the court victories.

    Finally, how can FSG pay a settlement when they purchased the club. Surely any settlement, if one was due, would have to come from whoever sold the club rather than who bought the club?

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  51. If he comes to Liverpool he could be a decent signing - only time will tell, if he doesn't then he doesn't and we all move on. No big deal. Plenty of fish in the sea.

    If the work permit issue is actually an issue then surely it will be the same for Southampton?

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  52. At least Ryo can't be national player...he turned 18 when he came, just after graduation of middle school

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  53. Lucas has a second nationality of italy? if my memory is right...

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  54. HaHa you mention the word "sad" many times but you suggest that although you are not a fan of Liverpool you trawl through Liverpool fan sites and comment on them. Perhaps your team would be more appreciative of your support rather than you anti-supporting other teams.

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  55. Why are Inter letting him  ?Why are the other champions leagues sides not making a bid? Something is off about this.
    I suspect we'll be back in for Tom Ince could be a negotiating ploy.

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  56. cops jas? cups i said mate . there plenty of cops in the 80 s most of them were kicking the shit out of the miners!!

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  57. He's a wizard with the ball.  (PC).  I haven't seen many that can top him.  But LFC seem to be ending up only with players that have been crocked and that nobody else wants... the fact that the coach who worked with him at Espanyol wants him says bundles.

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  58. What if the sky falls down? This work permit revelation is keeping me up up all night. Slow news day?

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  59. Liverpool Echo were adamant that no money changed hands (?)

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  60. cops? i said cups mate . cops we loads in the 80 s most of them were kickin the crap out of the miners !

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  61. Surely he's an italian nation by now as he has been in italy since he was 16/17. btw rafael and fabio are portugues

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  62. I'm sure I remember him getting loaned to Feyenoord so he could get a work permit.

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  63. If Rodgers wants him it's good enough for me. Besides, we are paying if his permit is approved, I think that's how the business is conducted. 

    He is coming to us from Italy, EU country, big club and strong league, where he spent 4 years, and his 1 appearance for Brasil is more impressive than 2 years of appearances for some weaker national team. 
    I think the ranking based on success of national team is ridiculous  it means that player has to rely on someone else to be eligible  especially if it's a young player.

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  64. As he is going to play for Southampton he will miss more than the Oldham game.

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  65. I believe the analysis may have come from the Liverpool Echo, it was a couple of weeks ago I think.

    I have no idea personally whether this was true as I said. I thought the analysis was sensible and feasible but whether that is how it happened or not, who knows?

    However, I dont believe FSG or NESV as they were then were involved in these legal cases so I was asking a previous poster how could they have been involved in a settlement when they purchased the club?

    The people involved in the selling were RBS and 3 board members and the media (if I remember correctly) reported these were the parties involved in the case, not FSG.

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  66. He stayed in Brazil for a year or two after the transfer. He came over around Rafa's time at Inter or just before.

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  67. You make a great point Jaime. I would personally like to see this player at Anfield. Unfortunately if he  doesn't have enough caps he may not get to play for Liverpool. The Premiere League has specific laws and regulations that dictate what type of foreign players can qualify to play in it. This is why i think it is so popular a league amongst the other leagues. No other league makes acquiring a work permit such a rigorous ordeal. Many players test themselves by playing in the BPL.

    That being said I think that Philippe Countinho will eventually not be able to turn down the opportunity to play in the PBL if it presents itself. Yes he is at a big club but he is not starting and that is why he is not getting many more caps. 

    With Luiz Felipe Scolari back at the helm "the canarinho" or the (Brazilian National team) has an old hand in charge who is open to giving old vets like a Ronaldinho a run out and at the same time giving uncapped players a chance to prove themselves. With the world cup in a years time Coutinho should be motivated to do what he can to get Scolari's attention. The catch 22 in this matter is that the player needs more caps to be allowed to move to Liverpool , and a move to Liverpool might help him get more caps and thus be considered for the roster in 2014. I don't know what to say about this one. I hope that Liverpool and the Brazilian FA can convince the premiere league that this player posses's exceptional talent. He is no Messi but i think his level of play puts him above the average Liverpool youngster.

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  68. This guy is an exceptional talent. He is the nuts, ofcourse he will get a work permit

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  69. The deal is contingent on a work permit being granted

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  70. If we can get Lucas through as an exceptional talent, then this guy shouldn't be a problem. He's got great testimonies from the likes of Ronaldinho. What about Ramires (Chelsea)? Coates? Had these guys played 75% of national games for 2 full years before joining?

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  71. i heard Howard webb has a 2nd cousin who works at immigration and handles work permits.
    Case solved me thinks

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  72. True that. Let em have him!

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  73. It seems we are going to enter a bidding war with southhampton over this player and if that the case i'd let them have him.
    Also a bit off topic but ive been seeing that Man U are signing Zaha for 15m?
    If thats the case then why arent we stumping up the extra mil for ince? 
    When statistically Ince is better.

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  74. Hi Jason, I know u hate FSG to the core. But be fair, I really don't think they made a 'good profit' by buying and running LFC. They paid off the debts of the club and did not seem to pocket any money from player sales. How are we being fair by saying they only concentrate on making money for themselves??

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  75. wow, do you honestly think LFC haven't thought this through, Please write a positive article on the thrashing of Norwich or something more interesting

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  76. Two different reports saying LFC is going after Marco Roja, and Chung-yong Lee. I'd say Coutinho is starting to look like it isn't going to happen anyway.

    That said, I'd rather have Ince.

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  77. I thought deals are normally off should work permits not be granted. I understand what you mean though - the club should have done their homework with regards to this, otherwise all that time chasing him could have been better spent on a more viable target.

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  78. This is way off the mark. No chance he would be denied a work permit.

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  79. don,t worry m8 there big pay day will come so don,t feel sorry for them

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  80. Money or small budget is LFC WEAKNESS now...anybody can hijack LFC players target with put a lot of money on the table now.Why??? Because the owner to stingy to break account bank for get sign in good players. Ramirez,Dempsey,Sigudson and the latest is Vegard Forren.LFC can be bullied by power of money.Very sad about that.huhuhu

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  81. There is an easy way around this. On the work permit request form, where it says "requested by" they should put "Manchester United"

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  82. The way he writes they are probably happy that he doesn't spend too much time on their own comment sections.

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  83. Valued less than Newcastle? Wrong!
    Ashley tried to sell them for £100 million, FSG paid £300 million, which is not exactly cheap, for us.

    FSG were not the best bid on the table? Hm, well, at least that is what Hicks & Gillett claimed, until recently. They had to drop that case.

    And who is that Chelsea banker you are talking about?

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  84. At the end of the day a football club is a business and I would expect anyone who invests in a business to make money from it. They have bailed us out and are entitled to a return on their investment

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  85. are you a lfc fan or a fsg spokesman

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  86. Sad you can't even write proper English, sad so very sad.

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  87. A fan but if fsg make me an offer... I take it you would prefer the man city or chelski type of owner, who throws money around rather then a long term approach?

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  88. sounds like you already sold your sole to them,fair play you enjoy your love in with them mean while i will celebrate the day they leave,i can not be bothered to say my reasons for wanting them out again but it grows by the day

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  89. It's soul not sole Jason and I haven't sold it to anyone. After the H and G year's, being on the verge of financial ruin, the false promises etc, I just want the club to run responsibly. I'm willing to give fsg time to implement their idea's.If you're not bothered to list your objections, then don't enter into a debate about fsg.

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  90. i dont want a debate fsg i just want them out end of

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  91. Oh no please sign him
    http://ricecookers-review.com/

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  92. Please sign him
    http://ricecookers-review.com/

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  93. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE2GuQwR4oo

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  94. rumours are favourable for butland transfer to lfc but sissokho has signed with the magpies..

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  95. Well FSGarbage finally stumped up the transfer fee - its about time we stopped scouting for S'ampton, Swansea, Spurs etc. Pay the going rate first time and we won't lose out. Forren will have time to regret his decision in the Ch'ship next season. Loser!

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  96. He has an Italian work permit [which is part of the EU]. It is therefore valid in all EU countries. This should be no problem.

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  97. Not sure what all the fuss was about. He got the permit pretty easily in the end

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