3/20/2012 11:30:00 am

Controversial Man Utd legend backs Dalglish over LFC 'progress'...

At the start of this season, Liverpool Principal Owner John Henry stated that it would be a 'major disappointment' if the club failed to finish in the top four. Well, Henry better prepare himself for disappointment because unless there's some kind of miracle, it seem likely that Liverpool are not going to achieve that Champions League target. For many fans - myself included - finishing outside the top four will mean the season has been an overall failure, but for others, the consolation prize of winning two cups will be seen as a sign of progress.

Kenny Dalglish has repeatedly made it clear that progress should not just be judged on league position, and he he's acquired an unlikely ally in Manchester United legend Roy Keane, who also believes that winning two cups would be a sign of progress at Anfield.

Summarising the Liverpool-Stoke FA Cup game for ITV on Sunday, Keane - who led United to countless trophies - was impressed with the way Liverpool 'controlled the game, and when asked whether two trophies would be enough for the club this season, he responded:

"Kenny Dalglish will be delighted with two cups. I know they've spent a lot of money, and they're 28 points behind United in the league, but if you get your hands on a couple of trophies, then that is progress".

I'm always suspicious when United players are magnanimous towards Liverpool; note how Keane shoe-horns in the money Dalglish has spent, and the huge league points difference between the two clubs (!)

I'm sure Keane is perfectly happy for Liverpool to be scrapping for pointless trophies like the Carling Cup; as long as the club is nowhere near Man United at the top of the table, I suspect he'll be the most magnanimous United pundit around.

I should clarify: when I describe the Carling Cup as 'pointless', I refer to its modern, sponsored incarnation. In the 1980s before the competition was whored out to the highest bidder, it was just called the 'League Cup', and it had much more prestige (IMO).


Jaimie Kanwar




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100 Comments :

RedHeart said...

Who gives monkeys about what Kean thinks about Liverpool. Let him focus on FA club, ManU.

Ggdd said...

Finishing 4th its nothing. Its a lot more important to win things. When our team is ready in the next couple of years it will then go for the finishing 1st and also go on to try and win the champions league.
We are not Tottenham to just be happy with finishing 4th and then playing a couple of games in the Champions league.
We are Liverpool football club and we there to win things

Sam said...

Problem is brand liverpool will never ever be able to compete with brand United...ever!

Vikashr22 said...

Better to have something than nothing!!!!

Paulanthonybryan said...

Jamie, I think your assessment that league position is the sole barometer of progress is deeply flawed. It seems to be largely based on the fact that you heard John Henry say their target was 4th at the beginning of the season. And therefore you conclude that nothing else matters much. But look at the honours board on Wikipedia. How many times does it list 'qualified for the Champions League' as an honour? That would be none. Because winning titles and trophies are what it is all about. And we've won one and may win another. By any standard, that us a successful season. If we won two cups and finished 16th in the league that would be a successful season.

But really, you know this. But it doesn't fit with your agenda so you ignore it.

Jevon Johnson said...

Hear hear.

Deano2112 said...

It never ceases to amaze me on how many United fans subcribe to Liverpool threads!  At the Old Toilet they sing about us, on letters pages they write about us, on T shirts they print about us, if it wasn't so sad it'd be comical!

Jaimie K said...

My idea that the league is most important comes straight from Bill Shankly himself, not John Henry.  He was once asked what was most important to LFC, and without hesitation, he said the league, describing it as the club's 'bread and butter'.  That's the way it has been for decades at LFC, but all of sudden, domestic cups are a more accurate barometer of progress than the league?!  Nonsense.  I see that as a betrayal of LFC's footballing philosophy.

Winning two cups and finishing 16th in the league would be 'success'?  You're entitled to your opinion but I think that just shows how fans are rushing to accept mediocrity these days.

The ironic thing is that Henry, who has no historical affiliation with LFC, seems to be more in touch with the club's philosophy than fans who've been following the club for years.

At the beginning of the season, he didn't say 'If we don't win the Carling Cup it will be a major disappointmnt', did he?  Why do you think that is?

The league is most important, and will always be the most important thing for LFC (IMO)

Shroom said...

nothing? finishing 4th and qualifying for the champions league is Very Important, the financial rewards are huge and CL football enables the club to attract better players

Shroom said...

bollocks, finishing 16th with the FA cup and the Mickey Mouse cup would be a successful season? yeah right, maybe for Everton.  money doesn't grow on trees but a substantial amount of it comes with finishing in the top 4, and in order for the club to compete with the abramovichs and sheikhs Liverpool need to finish in the top 4 

Tariqalibahadur said...

I have never posted on here thinking that this Jamie bloke was a Manc!

Most of the time I don't read the stuff he posts cause its so biased at hammering the King and he continuously talks about some target set by our owners of being in the top 4.

Being 4th means only money. We can only get in there if you spend masses of funds. Look how much the teams in the top 5 positions have spent over years of trying to get in the top 4. (Just goes to show how brilliant Rafa was with what he achieved).

The writer mentions we spent £100m under Kenny. But never likes to talk about net spend! The owners have spent £30m net if that, when taking into account the wage decrease from getting rid of players on high salaries.

Look trophies is all that its about...be it a carling cup, fa cup or ideally the holy grail of the Premiership. We had a realistic chance of winning only two this season. We have won one of them. We will hopefully win the other. What exactly is the writer moaning about?

The top 4 is nothing if you cant have a realistic chance of winning the Champs League. Look at the premiership teams in that competition this year...complete waste of time. Whats the point of getting 4th, play a group round and get embarrassed and being out before the knock out phase. As a team we are not ready to compete on the big European stage.

Liverpool need steady progress and win some trophies over a few seasons and then try and win the title or the champs league. Squads are not built up in one summer...

 

Andy said...

Do you have any idea of the financial reward of playing in the Champions League? The longer we are out of it, the harder it is to get back in. The money we would get from qualifying for the Champions League I would imagine be much more than the FA cup and Carling Cup combined. Not to mention the lure of top class players that such an esteemed competition brings. 

Of course, winning the Carling Cup was a good thing. How could it not be? A trophy is a trophy. But we shouldn't bang on about it being such a big sign of progress. This is the first season a Liverpool manager hasn't had a European distraction for as long as I can remember. For years we've fielded reserve teams in the competition, highlighting it's unimportance. So, had we not won at least one domestic cup it would have been incredibly embarrassing, given we've got nothing else to focus on, while other sides have had the African Cup of nations, and trips all over Europe distracting them. 

Let's also not forget that it's a lot harder to win the league than win a cup. You have to play everybody twice in the league, whereas we only had to beat two teams of real quality in the CC, although Chelsea were pretty bad back then if we're being honest. We only just scraped past Cardiff too. 

So, a little bit of perspective. Carling Cup was good, but if you believe it's the kind of progress we need, you're sorely mistaken. The statement still stands, not finishing fourth will be a major disappointment.

Andy said...

If you think finishing 16th in the league is a successful season you need a one way ticket to the looney asylum.

Philip Dean said...

If liverpool win the FA Cup i can as a liverpool fan who pays alot of money, be proud of our achievements. A lot of fans never part with their hard earned cash  to go to games, they would rather come on here and winge just after the game. You can see the picture on my post, It was taken at wigan at an away match, i am at the bottom of the surez banner. Some fans make me laugh they say we are poor and KK is a teribble manager and they have not left their arm chair all season. Anyone that goes to the game will tell you and laugh at some internet only fans. listen to the kop, do they boo or do they sing KK name long and proud. I remeber what it was like under hodgson as i was hit in the pocket for the crap i watched. the only good thing was to sing 'hodgson for england'. Currently you have two sets of liverpool supporters out their at the moment, negative ones who moan and want rafa back and to hang KK and the others like me who are only worried about getting semi final tickets, sad sad people. If you want to be negative, go support everton as at least your negativity will be for a valid reason!!!

rubyrm said...

What an A$$%#%^. Manure is a brand spot on. Liverpool is a Football club. AF has manipulated the system with his race horses. How dare you call LFC a Brand. MORON?

rubyrm said...

JK I like your articles. Going after KK all the time is not a positive thing. What you achieve with your anecdotes is only dividing the Kop faithful.  give it a break and get into some good writing like you have been doing.

Zulu said...

It bugs me a little bit Jaimie that you play down the importance of winning a cup, yes getting in the champions league is massive but Liverpool fc exist to win trophies. At the start of the season we had three trophies to compete for, we've won one and are in the semi final of another. Surely it's progress considering we got knocked out of both these cups at the first stage last year. Yes our league form has been frustrating but hopefully with the addition of a proven goalscorer next season we can push on. We are not a million miles off challenging for the champions league spots.

j75j said...

The League Cup or Milk Cup has been sponsored and sold to the highest bidder since 1982 by Diary Crest being the first company.
Weren't we the first club to have shirt sponsors in 78/79 season(Hitachi) and so we started the whoring out of clubs to the highest bidder for shirt sponsors? Which the FA caught on with whoring out the sponsoring of trophies/league (Canon 83) ? 

OriginalChan said...

I think Keane maybe realise that our ambitions need to be lowered, lowered more than usual after two decades of no titles and now finishing outside the top 4 yet again. It hurts and it is depressing but seeing as the title is out of reach for even longer, we need to get used to domestic trophies as being part of short term ambition. What I do disagree with is the apologists' justification of it all, e.g. belittling playing in CL and sensationalizing the winning of domestic cups over playing in the biggest club competition in the world.

OriginalChan said...

So we shouldn't bother with entering the CL if we haven't got a realistic chance of winning it? So why not apply the same to PL, lets just drop out of PL as we haven't got a realistic chance of winning it(!) Its not as if we were genuine favorites to win CL in 2005, I suppose we should not have entered CL then too(!)

CL is the best club competition in the world. Many fans and players want their team to be playing on the CL stage, even if they know that their team doesn't have a great chance of winning it. I love seeing Liverpool in it, its just a great buzz. It does amuse and bemuse the apologists' justification of belittling playing in CL and hyping up domestic cups. The domestic cups simply don't mean as much as they use to.

OriginalChan said...

Arsenal hardly have a high net spend and hardly have spent loads in the last decade or less, yet have been top 4 regulars. So its apologists excuse to justify not being in the top 4, by saying 'you need to loads of money to be in the top 4'. Pfft.

KK had a decent amount of money to spend on players and so far, he didn't spend it wisely. Harping on about net spend like some accountant doesn't justify wasting £35m on Carroll.

OriginalChan said...

Putting aside the financial benefits, its a great buzz to see the club playing in the biggest club competition in the world. Hearing the CL anthem, playing against the likes of Barca, Real, Milan, Bayern, etc.

Chrisabraham77 said...

Pointless trophy???!! No trophy is pointless. Are you really a Liverpool fan lad?

OriginalChan said...

The honours board doesn't illustrate that the Carling Cup doesn't mean as much it used to, too.

Patouz27 said...

Everyone wants to play in europe and with  the money spent which I think is 30 mil net i can see both cases. However in 10 yrs time history will say Daglish returned and in his first full seson won the league cup and maybe FA cup. And that will be considered either way as a success.Progress or not, Skint or not. The cabinet is not empty. and it is a very good start. Players can get the teams winning mentality and hopefully it will grow. This team is not ready for champions league as in to win but hopefully will be better next year. It will be hard. Chelsea, Arsenal will reinvest. City and utd to. Spurs will be good. It is not our divine right. But it may also help the players after winning the cups they can then concentrate on the top four spot. Remember people say wenger has won nothing for ages.

gabweb said...

Yes, from next year, we are only entering the Freight Rover Trophy!!

Septimus_severus said...

You attempted to make the same point yesterday when you used net spend.
You never applied the same process when it was Benetiz.
It would be more honest of you to state that you support Kenny Dalglish's interpretation of sucess over John Henry's.
Given that John Henry EMPLOYS Kenny Dalglish, it's not a good idea for him to tell the OWNER what the measurement is.

Paulanthonybryan said...

No Jaimie, the real irony is that a self-styled defender of Liverpool's historic values cannot see that those values were about being the best. If we are going to trade famous Shankly quotes then try this for size, "First is first, second is nowhere." He didn't even bother mentioning fourth. Shankly wanted to win. Dalglish wants to win and this season he's won our first trophy in six years. Truth is, you are falling into the 'I want everything now' culture. NOW, NOW Mummy. But that's not how it works. Success needs time, it needs the right culture, it takes place in steps as people and players learn what it takes to win. Liverpool's history means nothing to those players who were in nappies when the club was winning everything because they haven't gone through the experience that turns them into winners. That is what is happening now. From the bottom to the top of the club. have some patience. And understand that our history does not entitle us to anything in the present. We have to earn it. The hard way.

gabweb said...

Love the way that people say that winning a cup is more important than europe, even though it costs the club 20 million or so. Hope they will understand when we can't afford the players to make up for the bad signings that we have already made. Easy when it is someone else's money being wasted.

The club has already been downgraded if they can claim to have had a good season while finishing behind Chelsea who have sacked their manager this season. All the people claiming that we should be ok to be behind Chelsea while they sack their manager have downgraded us already.

Septimus_severus said...

When a Manchester United Stalwart comes to Liverpool Football Clubs aid you know things are going wrong at our Club.
You can't polish a turd and the table doesn't lie.

For those of you that care to bother, I pointed out 3 months ago that the spinning had begun.

When a manager tries to dictate what sucess is to the owner via the media, he's struggling.
It is NOT Kenny Daglish's job to tell the fans what is deemed a sucess.
Bill Shankly,Bob Paisley,Joe Fagan, NEVER DID THAT.

John Henry made it very very clear that the minimum expectation was Champions League yet Kenny feels it's his  place to tell them how to measure sucess.
This can only end in one winner and it wont be Kenny.
Kenny wanted the Job and he got it, he got the money, he got the players he wanted and frankly he doesn't have any excuses if he is dismissed at the end of the season.

The media have given Kenny a very light touch due to his 'status' and no doubt will attempt to demonise John Henry if does remove Kenny.

I wonder how many of you would be so reticent if this was your own personal money that had been wasted ?

So to that end lets wait until the end of the season and have this fight.
However, remember it's not your money and the owner will make a decision as it's there money.

Paulanthonybryan said...

Here's an article that explains beautifully why Jaimie and impatient fans like him are so wrong to denigrate the club's achievements in the cups this year...

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/england/story/kenny-dalglish-liverpool-fc-2012-short-term-expectations-progress-031812

Alex said...

Agree in principle. It is also interesting how in modern days, failure is considered success.  "Top 4 finish, top 4 finish, top 4..." has become the magic mantra, while as a matter of fact, finishing 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th in the league, actually means a failure to win it.  So if we are genuinely romantic and nostalgic of the Liverpool way, Liverpool philosophy, then as you quote "first is first, second is nowhere."

However, modern football is based on commercial values, which dictate owners' requiring of champions league football for its money and brand enhancement value.  Also champions league football would make it easier to attract top foreign talent (which we badly miss after Hodson and then Dalglish took over). That said, I am not sure that even with champions league football, Dalglish will attract top foreing talent, as he seems to be a bit too British in his approach.

So without underestimating the commercial effect of a top 4 finish as well as the excitement of watching us play in the Champions League (even though with the football we play at the moment I would not fancy us play Barca), I would rather first see a change in our football philosophy: more flair and technically gifted players, more ball possession, more intricate football, more of the old pass-and-move, to serve as the basis of future GENUINE success (winning the League, playing in exciting games in the champions league, winning domestic cups, etc).  If all of this means change in management, so be it; if Dalglish/Comolli/Henry could achieve it, I will be more than happy with the present set up.

Urajoke said...

 if u think bill shankly wud rather finish 4th best in league than 1st in a cup ur much mistaken

kopite_23@hotmail.com said...

. i would like to discuss with u over email why you seem to air YOUR views and give no one a chance to object against your opinions. If you are a journalist surely you know the best stories are based upon fact and not opinion. If you were talking in the street to someone who had conflicting views to you cant block them. You should listen. Enlighten yourself with other peoples view. open your mind. 

Bekim Sejdija said...

I agree with u 100% mate. I hate it when ex MU players praise us. Cos when they praise you than something's definitely wrong, is when they don't like u you need no worry.

1jj said...

More Rubbish from Jamie Kanwar,

Keane said this a few days ago, who's website have you stolen this story from to make you look like you know what your talking about, where your really an attention seeking thief

Kim said...

Moderate them comments Jamie so you don't let what the majority of people reading your nonsense stories really think about you

Mary said...

Please jamie stop posting these  pointless stories, I keep getting linked to them by your attention seeking headlines but as soon as I read the first fews lines I know its going to be a waste of time

Rajpdxusa said...

I wish you'd give it a rest. Moan moan moan moan moan.

LFC are rebuilding. Kenny is the right guy for the job. Take a look at Ferguson's first four seasons at Utd - it doesn't happen overnight.

Kenny's completely right - the club is moving forward and putting itself on a stronger footing to compete.

Again, these things take time. It's true in any field. Do you think Steve Jobs got back to Apple and instantly recruited all the people who made it what it is today? When the Americans first entered WWII they took some serious defeats did they sack all of their generals? There are so many more examples - plenty of great players have taken time to settle in. How many of you wanted Lucas sold before last season? Still want him sold? 

You can speculate to your hearts content but honestly I keep coming across the same article over and over again. 

We've got a top class manager. We just need to give him some time to refine his team.

lowee78 said...

more negative  ballsh#t, as if henry didnt know months ago liverpool were not going to get 4th.(so it seems)
are we supposed to hire and fire managers till hopefully we can find the right man to spend a whooping £80 million on a squad that guarentees at least 4th.  most you knockers are a joke and totally clueless.
keep saying for the muppits who cant get there little brains round it, WE ARE NOT CHELSEA,WE ARE NO MAN CITY, FOR F#CKS SAKE.
jose m had 350+ to spend on a squad and not all them were great signings by far. in the seasons they won the prem there was still a big divide between the top 4, now there is city and spurs and most other teams have got better, man utd were at there worse.
its harder now than it was then.
spurs won the wat you call it (pointless cup) and grew on from then. we may do the same.
im just shocked to come accross so many included the editor, ungrateful, unrealistic, negative, fickle, so called SUPPORTERS. wat a joke.
your everything a supporter is not.
now you will give me the sh#t that this is liverpool football club and were expected to win win win lol
where have you all been the last 20 years + ?????
how arsenal run there club is how i believe we are trying to run ours in the long run. no we dont want wenger. we need a good stadium with good income and a decent manager who can improve the team each season.
ITS REALITY. WAKE UP
 

MCM said...

It's time to out you JK....you are not a fan of LFC....you'd be gutted if your 'miracle' happenned and we made the top 4....GUTTED......shame!!! SHAME!!!

Jaimie K said...

Actually, I would be delighted as it would represent actual progress.

MCM said...

Actual Progress?
Last year no cups, this year 1 or 2 cups.
I'm sorry, but you sound ludicrous. Winning trophies are what LFC are about. You are lost in syrup of suffocating 4th'ness. Sad.

GM said...

Does finishing 7th or 8th with 1 cup qualify as success after finishing 6th and spending 90m?? really? .. jesus the standards here are low. Now we hear him saying that it would take "a hell of a player" to upgrade the crap he brought in.. what a joke! What he is setting everyone up for is more disapointment as he sticks with all of the medicore garbage he brought in and showing that his ego is bigger than the club... FIRE HIM!  

Houkura said...

Please admit Jamie...You're a manc.

MCM said...

I do appologise..my mistake..I thought this was a Supporters forum...There couldn't be less of an ego...Little man, rise up and see again

Jay said...

The irony of someone who knows little about LFC claiming fans accept mediocrity while being unhappy we won't finish 4th. Mind you, missing out on the CL will mean you can post another 12 articles a day moaning about the club you claim to support.

And incidentally, LFC weren't the first English club to have shirt sponsors.

lowee78 said...

90 mill?? big deal, man city spent more than that for bench warmers lol  90 mill was hardly going to buy aguero,tevez and higuan etc etc. you live not in the real world of current affairs mr.
read my previous post, its pointed at the likes of you

red33 said...

I agreed with you but qualifying is just for attracting and financially stabil while winning is everything dude.

Rajpdxusa said...

"his ego bigger than the club"?

No way can you be talking about Kenny Dalglish. If he had one tenth the ego he could rightfully be entitled to given everything he's achieved as a player AND as a MANAGER he'd give Ferguson a run for his money.

You sound like you don't know anything about Liverpool FC.
Get a grip seriously.

Willhan79 said...

Winning is everything. Who's going to remember we finish 4th down the road? History will remember winners.

I think it's pointless to debate over 4th versus cup winners. Let's grow up, and agree to disagree.

Jay said...

The point is that getting 4th place brings in money enabling a club to attract better players who can contribute to winning major trophies - i.e. the League and Champions League

Leonerick said...

What a bunch of knee jerks idiots.
Get a life, pathetic fools. Maybe You really need an intelligence check up.

RedWill said...

Some people really need to understand success is not born overnight. It takes TIME.

Last season we didnt finish in the top 4 and didnt quality for the Champions League and didnt win anything or get to a final. 

This season if we dont finish in the top 4 (which is more than likely) but yet win a cup and possibly another cup then that is improvement. As we have achieved more than the season before.

We are playing better football, creating alot of chances but failing to be clinical enough to win alot of those games in the league. If we were playing poorly in the majority of the games then i would be more worried. This is a young team that Kenny and Commolli are putting together that should mean it will develope and improve with time. Heck even having Lucas back for the whole season, a fit Gerrard and Suarez not suspended for 9 games would have made a massive difference. I know you cannot predict what would have happened but in my opinion we would have been at least level with Arsenal if we had not lost those three important players for most of the season.

Lets stop with the Chelsea culture of we want success in every competition straight away. We are a club in transition, we bought alot of new players and this will take time to work, heck Gerrard ,Carroll and Suarez only started thier first game together the other night and throw Lucas into the mix who has been our most consistant performer for the last two season and i know for sure we have not seen best this team can be. One or two addidtions in the summer (A tricky winger and clinical striker are the prioritys), which i think will come at the expense of Maxi and Kuyts places in the squad and we will be in a good starting position for next years league campaign.

JD said...

Its very frustrating to see no CL once again but we have got one cup and if we win another this season then there will be some light in the end and should act as a booster going into the next season .If we compare Arsenal, its more frustrating for their fans playing well but not winning any thing for seven years or more.I hope Kenny leaves the buying to someone else in the summer we don't want anymore disasters .

BillyBoy said...

Using Chelsea's actions as a yardstick is frankly laughable. So they sacked a manager - I don't give a tinker's cuss about it; it means nothing.

For example, in 07/08, they sacked Avram Grant, for being so awful at his job - getting to the finals of the CL and League cup, plus second in the Prem!

If you're going to make a comparison-based argument, you'd be far better off using Newcastle, who have spent less and have more points.

Bigbear960 said...

I used to enjoy your articles Jamie but they have gradually gone downhill... I mean just use your head. 7th last season no trophies. 7th this season 2 possible trophies. How can that not be called progress. If you only want to put the team and it's achievements down then stop supporting them ( if that's what you can call it )

MCM said...

I'm bored with this now. Here is what I want to win...The League, the Champions League next year, The FA Cup, the League cup again next year, the charity shield and all do it all with a perfect 100% winning record.
However, if we don't manage that I will not spit my dummy out and tantrum...I will accept improvement, and some new silverware. And if we keep doing that, then all will be well.
4th possition and the League cup aren't mutually exclusive. We can celebrate one whilst still trying for the other. We can try for the FA Cup whilst still agreeing 4th would be important...and better than 5th or any other number that is larger than 4. But it is not 1st in the league so does that mean its a failure still? JK and Pals probably would start blogging that if it happenned.
We can still be happy whilst ambitions are still not fully fulfilled. SHAME!

Martin28mckeown said...

I amaze at how much negativity we get on this site. To say winning two cups in one season would not be progress, is a nonsense! We won nothing in the previous five seasons,so this has to be viewed as a step in right direction. Winning is a habit,it gives the players confidence. I have been going to Anfield for almost 40years and  i have been fortunate enough to see the greats play and the league titles being amassed,but that was then and this is now,things have changed,football has changed. We have sadly regressed and the sooner we face up to that,the quicker things will improve. When we were winning title after title every top player wanted to be a red,but that is not the case anymore,now we are having to contend with clubs who have an endless amount of money and who are able to buy anyone they want. Yes Shanks did say that the league is our bread and butter,but did he not also say that 1st is everything and 2nd is no where?! We all need to take a reality check and not let past glories weigh us down,we have no devine right to be in the champions league,but I am confident that progress is being made!

Burn 76 said...

what for going to CL if we not ready?Hit by barca or real with 5-7 gol is good for us? no.Now the team is avery small squad.smaller than spurs or chelsea.To be top we need winning mentality.and it always start from small cup.Personaly I dont mind losing place in CL.Because we are not good enough.I prefer seeing m.u,chelsea,m.c,spurs,arsenal been hit 3-4 gol in c.l.It enjoyment for me.
No cl no money? heck didnt we is the highest team in term of sponsorship? LFC got biggest fan around the globe.Standard Charted confirm it.And we already pull the best jersey sponsorship in the world. For me money is not the biggest issue as long LFC have supporters behind the club. 

OriginalChan said...

Yes, Apple operated in a similar industry to modern-day football(!)

Yikes, some people

OriginalChan said...

Well, it doesn't help when the money we do have is wasted on the likes of Carroll. You bang on about not having enough money but we spent quite a bit anyway and its HOW you spend it, that matters. 

OriginalChan said...

So that somehow justifies spending £35m on Carroll and accepting the mediocre performances that have come from it? Absolute rubbish. £90-100m is still a lot of money and we wasted most of it. 

OriginalChan said...

History will remember that over time, that the domestic clubs lost a lot of prestige and meaning over the years.

OriginalChan said...

So £90-100m investment for a poxy League Cup triumph is seen as progress. Yay(!)

We played far better and effective football in the last half of last season. The players he has brought in in the summer and the football form that has followed has been mediocre at best. So KK has taken the club backwards in terms of comparing present form to the form showed in the last half of last season. 

OriginalChan said...

£90-100m spent on players for League Cup

OriginalChan said...

Shanks came from a period where 4th didn't mean much and League Cup held a lot of prestige.

Certainly not the way it is now.

OriginalChan said...

We're not good enough to win PL, so I take it we should not bother with PL too and should drop out of the league and go into the Championship?

Bigbear960 said...

And? They got it did they not? If the owners are happy to pay out then we will keep improving

Bigbear960 said...

Well said. The negativity is not the Liverpool way and makes is seem like Chelsea fans.

Septimus_severus said...

There in lies the rub IF the owners are happy to invest at the current rate of return it will take 4 years to get back to CL places on current trends

RedWill said...

This is fundamentally wrong. The investment in the squad is around the £30-£40 million mark. No where near £100m. £100m investment would mean we have kept all the players we had as well as buying the new players.

The form to the end of last season was as the side were playing with no pressure. There is no way the club has gone backwards from last season.

Martin28mckeown said...

The league cup held no more prestige then, than it does now. Liverpool was invented to win trophies,shanks words not mine.We had our preferences at the start of each season,but we gave every cup the respect it deserves,hence our history!

RedWill said...

I somehow have the feekling OriginalChan is a troll and its just baiting. Dont feel the troll.

MCM said...

OriginalChan...what is your agenda here mate. Cheer up. No, it's not the 70's and 80's ...but I'll bet you slagged off the 2005 side too..untill the last 75 mins of the season! Enjoy...things are improving..we are getting more points this season from the top sides than we have for most of the last 5 or 10 years...so a bit of tweeking will sort out the rest and you will see things take a big leap forward over the next 18 months. (Yes, that was months...not minutes as some of you NEGs expect change in!)

kekker said...

Spot on mate.

MCM said...

'Actual Progress' ? As opposed to what? Real progress, some progress, a bit of progress, a spoonfull of progress, a hamper of progress, a bucket full, a thimble of progress.....??? Progress is Progress however you dress it up and we can only trully judge just how much when we look back in years to come.
Unfortunately you and your Neg pals are not making any progress in the attempting to contact brain before typing front

Philip Dean said...

the whole transfer of carroll torress was based on ensuring that when torres and babbel left the club we got surez and carrol for basically free. to be fair, who would you rather have carroll and surez or babbel and torres??

Jaimie K said...

Winning domestic cup competitions is not real progress; performance in the league is the only sign of genuine progress, and on that front, Liverpool have regressed.

The same applies to the CL - Liverpool won in 2005, but finished 5th in the league. It was a horrible league season yet everyone suddenly thought the CL meant we'd made progress, and the league would soon follow. it didn't work out what way because cup competitions are a false indicator of progress.

Philip Dean said...

the only reason why the Domestic cups have lost thier prestige is Utd, they down played the carling cup by playing their reserves, and they down played the FA Cup for money in the world club championships. As liverpool fans we should make sure they remain high profile!

Philip Dean said...

currently man city have spent about 400 million for an FA Cup!

MCM said...

So winning CL, FA cup, League Cup, Super cup and Charity shield while being 5th in the league would not demonstrate any Progress (Real or otherwise!).
2005...one of the greatest nights of my life. If you can't look back on that season and BEAM from ear to ear then you arn't an LFC fan. End of Story
Get a grip and accept that there is progress, no doubt. The argument is how much, is it enough, and what can we do to make sure there is further progress next season. This Actual Progress or Real Progress stuff is just rubbish.

Jaimie K said...

It represents progress in Cup competitions only; that has absolutely nothing to do with progress in the league, and as Shankly said, the league is LFC's 'bread and butter'.

MCM said...

perhaps, but he certainly did not say whatever you do in cups is irrelevant. I think you will find the 2 go hand in hand over time. One Swallow and all that accepted, you have to win the 1st one before you can get the 2nd, 3rd, etc. So currently you have no idea where the progress we have made this year might lead. I realise you suspect nowhere, but as per your 2005 comment earlier, it did lead to progress in the league. Top 3 or 4 for years after, another CL final, 2nd in league...it just didn't lead to the ultimate prize and goal. That doesn't mean there was no progress, and that is the case now. Cups and league go hand in hand and if you can't enjoy cups then you are......

Rajpdxusa said...

Did they?

I hadn't noticed that but thanks for letting me know.

I thought I was making the point that even the best  management with a clear focussed plan can still take time to show results.

I think the word you're looking for is analogy or analogous.

Cheers :)

gabweb said...

Actually, it is not laughable, whether they sack the manager or not, no one is saying that this season has been successful for them, are they? And they are still well ahead of us. Whichever way you look at it, they've had a very poor season and we still can't keep up with them, you happy with that?

gabweb said...

the best management? The Americans in world war two? They panicked and are, still, the only country to ever drop the bomb on someone as a result? Good management? The similarities between them and our management are there to see, so you do have a point, i suppose.

gabweb said...

What did Newcastle spend to be in front of us? How about Swansea, to be breathing down our necks? Fulham? How about Arsenal, for that matter?

gabweb said...

Yes, it did. Don't be ridiculous, no one played their reserves in the competition in those days.

Rajpdxusa said...

No that was in reference to Apple.

As for WWII I don't think dropping the bomb had anything to do with panic. The war against Germany had already been won. It was calculated and deliberate. However I was referring to the start of the war not the end.

Not sure what similarities there might be. From my perspective we've got the right manager doing the right things and I would be inclined to give him a few years to actually do the things he needs to do. I don't believe for one minute that if Kenny had stayed as manager in 1991 or been rehired after Souness that we'd still be waiting all these years for the league title.

Panicking would be deciding that based on this season that the Manager should go.

gabweb said...

Who says things are improving? You? Any half decent team can win a cup and, if you get lucky, you can win two. Sheffield Wednesday got to two cup finals in the same year, what did that do for their long term progress? The table does not lie and, for our money, we are closer to Swansea than Man Utd, behind Newcastle. What do you think Newcastle will be doing while we are improving so much, standing idly by waiting for us to overtake them? Practising their darts? They are ahead of us now and people think that overtaking them again is just a case of us concentrating hard or something. We have to make up that ground despite money wasted and they are not going to simply sit there and make it easy for us. Some people on here seem to think that no one else in England is trying to improve at the same time. This is the weakest premier league for years and we are not competing. And the reason that we are strong in the cups is because we have no european football. But in the league, where everyone is trying, we are shown to be a mediocre side.

gabweb said...

I'd rather have 57 million in the bank, thanks.

gabweb said...

At what point is the performance not acceptable anymore? Who needs to overtake us before we decide that changes are needed? Swansea? Villa? Blackburn? Reading, next season?

Rajpdxusa said...

2015.

gabweb said...

3 seasons? We could be in the bottom half of the league, fighting a relegation battle by then if things dob't progress.

One more season, maximum, in my opinion, to challenge for top four, if it was meant to take longer than that, then it just wasn't a very good plan in the first place.

MCM said...

WE could be champions by then too. Just relax.
A chap who knows a lot more about it than any of us, created one of the greatest club sides ever in the late '80s and won BLackburn a title is on the case. and so far as I can tell is the only manager in the league to have won a trophy, contestred by all, this season so far. Unbelievable how much Neg you spout.

gabweb said...

I reckon we are heading closer to relegation than champions, our points tally suggests so much, in any case. We are nearer to the bottom three than the top of the league and the club has been heading in this direction for 2 or 3 seasons now.

Kenny did have success with his Backburn side, of totally British players, but times have changed since then and I'm not sure Kenny has changed as fast.

Naajee90 said...

Paulanthonybryan, well said mate. It good to have someone with a measured and educated comments for a change. Most people do not understand what it takes to build a team and breed a wining mentality, look at how much money man city have spent, they are second with only the FA cup to show for. In the last 6 years how many times have we made top four? But the only thing which is mentioned much is our trophy drought instead, 6 years without one. As a supporter I don't get to
See the money coming in from The champion league qualification, however, I saw my team lifting a trophy and it felt fantastic.

Davph said...

As has been said many times before the European Champions League is not a league comprising the Champions from Europes leagues it's a mere contrivance by Uefa to have a league formed from the big clubs in Europe. Oz Murdoch and Uefa then throw bales of money at competing and declare it a whopping success.

What effect does this competition have on leagues in Europe. It disrupts countries top league programmes and alongside International competition damages the week to week continuity necessary to build teams. They demand the purchase of expensive players from around the world to succeed and then have the temerity to tell Clubs they must balance input and output or Uefa will take action. It's illogical and must be stopped.

It's time Uefa formed their own league/s by inviting teams to participate and choose between European Football and our Domestic Premier League.

International countries should do a similar thing by setting up Class 1, 2 & 3 leagues and allow players at the Under 21 stage to choose International football, Uefa league football or the Domestic Premier League.

International Leagues would operate as the Champion Leagues do now but the players would not be attached to any league club. Classification to !, 2 or 3 would be done initially from FIFA's grading. This would allow clubs  and international bodies to control their players instead of borrowing them and sometimes returning them injured.

Domestic Premier League clubs would then be able to establish new format and rules for their own competitions eg., video referees, kick-ins instead of throw-ins, semi-circular penalty areas, penaltys taken from place of foul and short and long corners similar to hockey etc etc

Football has become predictable and dull in many ways and new formats could well generate fresh appeal.

James Woods said...

Maybe you should look at yourself and your overly sceptical view and bad judgement of people. One thing you can't say is that Roy Keane bullshits, He hit it right on the head, it would be a good season to win 2 trophies. The amount of money spent is what pundits mention because it's a key fact along with the points differential. What would you like him to say, send him on a copy and i'm sure he'll oblige. Your naive if you think a team can be built in one summer

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