SITE UPDATE: JK is away until 31 August. #Justice4MichaelBrown | #Justice4EricGarner

9/10/2011 07:04:00 pm

Enough with the victim complex, Kenny. Refs aren't the problem here...

After Liverpool's defeat against Stoke City today, Kenny Dalglish was clearly frustrated by the 'contentious decisions' he believes are going against the club on a regular basis. There may be a some truth to that but the club should not be relying on refereeing decisions to win games. Liverpool clearly had more than enough quality on the pitch today to comfortably beat Stoke, and the failure to do so is down to the players and the coaching staff, not the referee.

After the game, Dalglish chose his words carefully:

"For us, we do feel a bit frustrated about a lot of things that happened that were out of our control. In the four games we've played in the league, every single one of them has had a contentious decision and I don't think you'll find we've been of benefit. I'm not taking anything away from Stoke City, but I think some of the decisions that were made today were hard to take."

With the greatest respect, this sounds a little too 'victim-complex' for me. Every team gets shafted by bad refereeing decisions, and many of them are 'hard to take. However, I think it's fair to say that most teams will also *benefit* from bad decisions, including Liverpool. It all balances out in the end.

If there's one thing you can predict with certainty about football it's bad refereeing decisions; they should be expected; indeed, factored into the game-plan. A team like Liverpool should be proactively winning against the likes of Stoke, not hoping for a helping hand from the referee.

Of course, I can totally understand Dalglish's frustration, but in my view, the blame for today's defeat should lie with the players and coaching staff, not the referee.

At the very least, Liverpool should've scored today. The real focus of attention should be on the failure to find the net despite having almost £90m worth of dedicated attacking talent on the pitch (including, at various times, 4 strikers).

Dalglish also stated:

We find it hard to take and we're trying our best to be respectful to the campaign that we have, but if the club's going to suffer in any way, shape or form because I'm being too respectful by not standing up for the football club, then I've got to address that. No one here wants to see this club suffer.

I don't think it's healthy to (indirectly) cultivate a victim-complex when it comes to refereeing decisions, or anything else for that matter; we had enough of that under Rafa Benitez. If players go onto the pitch feeling hard-done by instead of raring to go with confidence and belief then there's potential for a negative impact on performance.

The game was lost. What's done is done. The harsh truth is if any of Liverpool's attacking players had done their jobs effectively today then the game would've been won, or at least salvaged by a draw. The reason why Liverpool failed to score/convert chances should be examined, and I'm sure it will be.

Ultimately, despite the improved form since Dalglish returned to Anfield, the away-day blues that blighted last season have not yet been vanquished. I'm sure, however, that this is just a temporary blip; games will inevitably be lost during the season, and Liverpool will recover.

59% possession away from home; 12 corners; 12 shots on target; barely anything for Pepe Reina to do.

Onwards and upwards.

Jaimie Kanwar


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107 Comments :

Tornike Khomeriki said...

Agree that we didn't play well enough up front - the final pass wasn't good enough and you're not gonna win games by just applying pressure with countless crosses.
I also saw another instance of Downing being not half as effective on the right as he is on his natural position. Have no idea why Dalglish keeps playing him as LW.

Bigred_76 said...

Do you actually go the game? Because you dont half talk shit lad

Chris said...

" I don't think it's healthy to (indirectly) cultivate a victim-complex
when it comes to refereeing decisions, or anything else for that matter."

I think Mr Ferguson & Mr Mourinho would beg to differ with you Jaimie.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Yes, they're masters at it but it's not really a successful strategy (not in Wenger's case anyway).

Ian Barrigan said...

in the sunderland Game i sat next to a very experienced retired ref and he told liverpool are soft. Man utd and chelsea would have harranged the ref to send off the sunderland defender.

Anfieldboy1 said...

Sorry, but if you saw the game today, you should
know that we were playing some
good football today. We deserved nothing less than a win and ok we should have scored from open play. But we got a dubious penalty against us and should have got two. So I'm very dissapointed in you slating King Kenny for telling the truth. SAF wines and moanes before games and gets decisions going for him by doing so.

kkandcouldheplay said...

We will play a lot worse and win. Today was a bad day at the office. Stoke got their set piece then played a 10 man defence. Regardless of any ref decisions on another day it would have been 1-5. 

I think the main reason people are upset is that the scum have started like a train. But remember the season is a marathon, not a sprint: their bad patch will come

Bigred_76 said...

you the Ian Barrigan from Liverpool academy?

Ynwa said...

A helping hand from the referee, you say?, JK, we do not expect nothing of the kind, JK, THAT would also be unfair, wouldn't?, we just want FAIR PLAY, which we are not getting!.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

How is this any different to what most teams go through?  Irrespective of refereeing decisions, the team still controls its own destiny.  It's simple: if you score enough from open play you don't lose.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

I did see the game, and I don't deny we played some good football (I didn't say otherwise in the article, did I?).  So I take you're in favour of KD becoming a moaner like SAF and Wenger in order to pressure refs into giving us decisions? It's a vicious circle, and in my view it's a pointless exercise.

Win games fairly: play well and score goals.

Chri5jo said...

Exactly, that's all we want and if the linesman start doing their jobs they could help the referees more (who gave them the title of assistant referees :( ). Another reason why TV evidence should be used as anything can lead to a goal/penalty etc.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Ian - you're saying that Liverpool should start hassling/crowding the ref in a bid to pressure him to send players off?  How is this fair behaviour>  How would such behaviour reflect positively on the club

Jaimie Kanwar said...

How is this any different to what most teams go through?  Irrespective of refereeing decisions, the team still controls its own destiny.  It's simple: if you score enough from open play you don't lose.  We didn't score, so we lost.

SEan said...

Jaimie,

Want to share with the forum how you did an interview for the Republik of Mancunia site You know the one which sells Heysel and Hillsboroyu tee shirts and continually makes reference to these events.

To all those who are posting on here be aware that Jaimie is very close to the owner of that site called Scott the Red.

Still wanting to visit Jaimie's site? If so then shame on you.

I will continue to share this information on the site until your readers walk Jaimie.

Mali341 said...

well well well guess what kenny dalglish is being found out . it will end like Kevin keegan at newcastle . when u are one dimensional it's not hard to be found out .

Evo said...

Sorry, Jaimie, but you're wrong. It's hard enough to beat teams like Stoke without shitty decisions like those seen today.

Refs need help. Think to yourself, how many other sports use video technology to better their game.

Until Blatter and his goons embrace he technology managers will be continually frustrated and undermined by poor decisions.

Redhed17 said...

Stoke have one of the best home records, and their defence showed why, they got in front of everything. We played some good football, but we didn't have the killer touch. We had a few player below form, and the King never made the changes soon enough to rectify that.
 
It was a penalty, an easy one, but a penalty. If it went our way we'd smile sheepishly and hope to score. The 'handball' hit the players body first. We'd be screaming if that went against our defence.
When you start going against the referees it's a risky strategy. Haranguing the ref was always shameful in the past, and I'm glad we didn't do it as much as other teams in the past, Utd and Arsenal spring to mind. Even they have pulled, or have been forced to pull back from such abuse, us starting to do would not be productive imho.

I think the King is just putting the doubt in ref's minds which will hopefully make them take a moment to consider their decisions. As long as they make the right decision I'm OK with that.

Mali341 said...

He has already spent half of what fat beni spent in 6 years and is blaming refs. it will all end in tears...just go and get Gus hiddink like you always said Jamie

Sean said...

Jaimie,

Why are you not posting my comments?

Thought you were all for free speech and facts.

Anything I said that is not factual?

Sean said...

All I said was that you do interviews for Republik of Mancunia and that that site sells Hillsborough and Heysel Tee shirts and also revels in the events of those days...

Snherty said...

All I said was could you tell the forum regarding your links to the Republik of Mancunia site that sells Hillsorough and Heysel tee shirts...

StokieUK said...

To be honest, we (Stoke) were battered today but defensively i thought we were superb. That tallied with Liverpool not being able to score in a brothel results in 8 points from 12 whereas I expected us to have none by now!

32 more points and we are safe :)

Sean said...

Just your thoughts on why you support a site like republik of mancunia that sells heysel tee shirts....

Factual??

Anthony said...

what league are you watching fcuk face,you think man u won 19 titles all by themselves,you remember the penalty man u got against us in the FA cup match at old Trafford that turn out to be the only goal of the game,a clearly bad decision by the England no.1 ref Mr Webb.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

What comments?  You're free to post.  If your comments are not going live then it means you were banned under a previous user name.

michael said...

agree, remember chelsea this time last year.

Ian Barrigan said...

Jaimie I Never said anything I just repeated what a top retired referee said to me at the game. 

Ian said...

shhhhhhhhhh

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Interesting stuff - thanks Ian. What was the personal view of the Ref you spoke with - did he think Liverpool should be more like Chelsea/Man U?

Jaimie Kanwar said...

I don't think you have anything to worry about - I think Stoke will stay up easily.

Malcolm_friggieri said...

Refs in England are crap, really rubbish, inconsistant and have their own rules for example hand balls doesn't exist, the last man when fouling sometimes they send him off and sometimes not, really poor. KK was right to criticise though he was wrong not to sub Adam and put on Maxi, Carroll was rubbish agian.It's better KK start not looking at the passport and sign more top foreign players like Suarez than average Brit players like Carroll, Adam and Henderson

Superreds01 said...

The ref didn't make Suarez miss an open goal, he didn't make Henderson fail to finish a one on one or Downing and Bellamy miss straightforward headers. We had enough chances and possession to win 2 or 3 games today and failed to do so. Man U would have won that game 3-0 without breaking sweat.

That said, the failure to give the penalty for handball was in all honesty unbelievable. The Stoke pen was one of those things although I thought Walters was equally guilty of a foul and that he simply fell over looking for the pen and got it.

Pulis makes me laugh though. He smirks afterwards knowing that the decisions have been dubious and in his favour. If they had gone the other way he would have spent the next week bleating about big teams getting all the decisions and poor little Stoke being done by the ref. I'd bet a pound to a penny that the next time Stoke get a ropy decision against them he's forgotten the 2 dodgy ones he got today.

Sean, said...

My comments were related to your values that you state above that you hold youe site to Jaimie.

Please state what was wrong in my comments.

You are not worried what people may think are you?

Sean.. said...

Your site talks about truth....(see above at the top of the site). Its one of your VALUES.

Just talk me through why you partner up witha  site that continually talks about the Liverpool disasters and celebrates them

Steve Johnson said...

We defended well and you just are not as good as you think ...yet. You've got some gr8 players but we have a gr8 team ,granted not so much skill as l,pool but when you came up a team that Cared you were shown up ...FACT.  

Superreds01 said...

Steve

You didn't show anyone up. You defended brilliantly and got the benefit of 2 50-50 penalty decisions. If they had gone against you all we would be hearing is how Stoke are hard done by. Good luck to you I genuinley think you will finish 7th or 8th but to say you showed us up is nonsense.

Owen said...

Kenwar, please do all Liverpool fans a favour and turn your unwelcome and highly subjective attentions to another team instead of ours. It is clear from your perpetual negativity that you are using our club to pedal a personal agenda. Consequently, it would be greatly appreciated if you could either find another target, or better still, retire your keyboard on a permanent basis. 

abraham said...

jamie for once you have written intelligently. that match was lost by the coach! passing the football around well at that tempo cant win a team like stoke. a few players who played 2 games in the past week were mentally tired and slow. rafa never complained about refs so pls stop. i bet that rafa wouldnt have lost this game anyway! 

Mali341 said...

Kenny how about blaming Jamie carragher who costs us games year in year in out...hand balls..penalties...being too slow ....time to move over .

Steve Johnson said...

WE didnt show you up .What i mean is you are just not quite there yet but will still finish 3rd or 4th. I have many reds fans as friends who think you are world beaters, but just not yet in my opinion. Still best of luck to my second team. L.S is different class.  

Redhed17 said...

I fear age is catching up with Carragher. It was notable when he came back from injury.

Hopefully Coates will be the player we hope in to be and will be given a chance sooner rather than later.

Shanks99 said...

Thought stoke defended well today and are old hands at negating a team who comes to play. They waste time at every corner,free kick and throw in wearing you down with kicks and shoves for which the ref blows his whistle. Which wastes even more time.Thought adam was awful to wasteful on the ball trying too many hollywood passes, surprised not subbed for maxi as suarez seems to have a understanding with him. Just one of them things today we will only get better .

Shanks99 said...

Agree with you about cara thought been shite for a few years now. Seems to get slower and slower was always a last tackle defender and thats letting him down now. Got to be the worst passer of the ball in the team just hoofs it up in the air to no one in paticular. There is no room for sentimentality if we want to be the best. This coates kid looks the part .

Cunt said...

kanwar sucks cock

Dan said...

agree totally, also Hendo is nowhere near ready, his short passing was weak and his overall game was very poor. I think he should be used as a squad player for know. We really need someone with a bit of flare, Raul could have come on and turned the game around and that's that type of player we are now missing and Carra should start taking a back seat although he should still be in the team on the bench, he is still a good player just a little too slow

Dean71276 said...

Not often I read an article by you Jamie and agree but I watched the game last night and our final play was horrible.Henderson hit the keeper when it was easier to score,johnson was a liability, suarez worked his ass off for no result,adam was ineffectual and yes we did get some bad decisions against us but it is only the 4th game of the season there are 34 to go lets analyse it in may next year after the top 4 finish then we can all whinge about poor decisions and what would have been.

davewestausregularguest said...

I'm even more doubtful that KK will succeed. Bring back the best tactician - RAFA.

Ccheong68 said...

If the team continue to play this way, it will be difficult for a top 4 finish. I hope the players should concentrate on their football instead of talking about league position. Mr. Henry is spot on, we are not going to win the league this season. 

Dean71276 said...

I'm not a Rafa hater but some of his tactics in big games were horrendous E.G the 2nd Champions League Final against AC he had pennant putting in crosses and left the tallest guy on the team sitting on the bench so had no 1 to head the ball into the net with the keeper completely beaten.

bill said...

I hate to say this Jamie but I agree with you for once.We should have trounced Stoke and nearly did but nearly dids dont win the league,we will have serious difficulty getting into the top 4 if we cant beat teams like Stoke.I know they are a difficult side to break down but do you think Manure will not break them down?

BR said...

graceless 'wingers'? are you sure you didn't want to say something else that started with w and ended in ers? lol

onbeyondzebra said...

Jamie...there seems to be a flawin your logic. (I'm shocked, btw, never expected that in your always positive, never sensationalist, finger on the pulse of the true supporter posts that you bless us with a little too regularly.) Firstly you suggest that Liverpool have to suffer poor decisions just like every other team. Secondly, you assert that other top teams (like ManU and Chelsea) use reprehensible tactics which stops the majority of calls going against them.  You can't have it both ways mate. Kenny's point - as you didn't seem to understand it - is that of all the big clubs, LFC are being singled out precisely because he (the manager) doesn't use the tactics of bad mouthing referees before matches, and telling his players to harrass the ref during a match. He wants it to be a fair playing field - where on average 50% of bad calls go against you. As he is not using SAF's tactics, that is not happening. Therefore Liverpool is being unfairly penalised. Listen to th words he uses "my actions might be negatively affecting the club". He's making quite a poignant statement about the nature of the modern game - where only the Morinho's and Ferguson's gain success; he's not fostering a victim-complex.  

onbeyondzebra said...

mate...you're on the wrong site. When you see big red letters, it's usually your first clue that it's not a chelsea blog.

Lfc4life said...

dude....i know your tying your best to get ppl to reqd your article..but ill still blame it on the ref for stealing the points away...when a ref doesnt give a penalty for a team n suddenly he gives away a soft penalty to your opponent..it ca make a real diff...esp ur moral n confidence...if we had a peanlty today we could have won the match...so....what kenny says it right!!!dont try to outsmart him..!!!

Suwaez said...

Finally.. I really thought Carragher was the main fault..hadn't he brought down Walters, Stoke won't have scored. They were good at defending but attacking wise I doubt it.. Carragher also the reason why we lost the clean sheet in the last minute against Bolton.. Put some sense into him..let Coates play, give the kid a chance.. Carragher best attributes was the reading of the game, may b it's best for him to read it at the bench. Against a lofted ball from Pennant to Walters he was at the wrong side, too slow to react & not strong enough to challenge.. And the most annoying thing is that, every time some body pass the ball to him, he either bangs it forward or to the side.. Agger would play those kinda of pass instead of lofting it forward hoping some one to chase it.

khaleel said...

Match stats;
1)Stoke played a really good defensive football.
2)The refrees misjudge to allow LFC 2 CLEAR pemalty.
3)With no disrespect..it NOW HIGH HIGH & HIGH time for Carragher to sit on bench & let the likes of Coates & Skertel to do the job a CB!!
As LFC fans we are sick to repeatedly see capital mistakes from carragher which penalise LFC with important points matches after matces, he hardly could defend, always late at intervention, gift opponents with goalscoring balls and cant even pass a ball correctly without mentioning he always get stress when he have the pass in his feet, the sooner to get rid of it, the better is for him...we are sick to see how many of his long-passes are wasted with 50% out of play & 49% passing to opponents. We really cant understand that football are played with mildfielders, its their role to collect the ball from defenders to supply wingers & stricker. Carragher 95% pass are towards aiming carroll & swarez & only 1% are completed!!! As LFC fans we want our team to win & we cant afford due to 1player repeated mistakes the team is penalised & lose the game. We acknowledge that carragher has always been a quality player and LFC fan but with his current performance, its high time to be as quality sub at LFC.. Look as the likes of G.neuville, P.vierra, p.scholes, van der star & others, they have professionally move aside for the benefit of the team due to their current ageing and lowering in performances.
YNWA

Philip Dean said...

i agree with some of the comments about carragher. His service and commitment to liverpool have been excellent, however during this season we have seen him make mistakes that have resulted in goals. Carragher relied upon his reading and anticipation, he would be quick to act and stop an attack. At the moment he still reads the game and anticipates the movement, however he is not able to get in the position. Carragher does not constitute to the flowing footbal of liverpool. He will often get the ball and the first thing he looks for is a run, so the ball goes long. If he where able to pass a ball like alonso or beckham then
I would have no problem in him doing it, but when the balls are often hit like a goalie taking a goal kick, I see no real point in doing it and I cant remember when it led to a goal.
In conclusion, I would rather see a younger person make a mistake and learn from it and get better, rather than an aging person making mistakes due to his age; knowing that he wont be able to learn from these mistakes due to his lack of ability through age.
Coates should be brought in and given a go, otherwise we may forget about all the great things carra has done and become short sighted; giving him abuse for his poor play. He should now be played like scholes or giggs is at Man utd, when you need a bit of leadership, then bring him on, but if the kids are playing well, then put him on the bench.

David Eighteensixtythreeforum said...

Hi Stoke fan here. Liverpool were twice the team we beat last season, stop worrying, Kenny will do just fine.

The ref was pretty useless today, but for both sides, there was quite a few incidents from liverpool which he judged to be "Ball to Hand" as well as Stoke. The Penalty was a Penalty, no matter what Hansan said on Match of the Day, the commentators on Football First on sky were in no doubt it was a penalty. The Linesman on my side of the pitch (opposite the dug outs) got pretty much every decision wrong all game.

You do need to ask though, do you have room in your team for passengers ? Charlie Adam may be an amazing dead ball specialist, but in open play is shockingly poor.

Good luck for the rest of the season, but remember Moanure and Citeh are out of touch, everyone else is an also ran this season, and Kenny is still trying to rebuild, have patience

Jradova said...

its not carragher  but kennys because he doesnt pick the best players we actually have

MoRed said...

if Kenny every week came and complained about refs and made it in a very disrespctful way then I could understand your headline, the word "enough" indicates that Kenny s making a habit of it.
I think Kenny has got a point to raise the issue of referees as in last 4 match ,we have been doen badly, and with my calculation had lost us 5 points. 
if your team has been done wrong and your players are down, you as maanger got to make sure fans and players are not the main reason of the bad result.
I am sure f you did that without any case after a while, you as manager would lose creditibility. 
finally his comments could be way to get the press attention for future games, therefore if it happens againnext week, then it will be rasied by others in press to confirm his point.
  
  

SA Red said...

Jaimie I agree with your comments, if we are going to blame the ref then we should criticize him when the dubious decisions go in our favour as well, otherwise we are going to sound like Arse 'n Whinger. I would say that with one or two exceptions we played like a mid table team yesterday and quite honestly I think Kenny is risking a great deal here, he has spent an enormous amount on largely mid team players and there is the risk that that we will not end higher than 5th or 6th. At this point in time I simply cannot see us challenging for top four.....I hope I am wrong.

Absolut_dr_Bescht said...

With the greatest respect, but you show absolutely no respect at all, just as a certain SAF. Go on and support the scum then...

If you really think, you know more about football than Kenny or Rafa(, who was complaining about the same thing too), two of our greatest managers, then you are really self-opinionated and completely out of order.

The refereeing was something of the poorest i have seen in a long time. There were three incidents, which should have been a penalty for us. But not one was given.
What makes it even worse, is the fact that actually all questionable
decisions "went" against us and not one in favour of us.

The following bit is the biggest nonsense, i ever heard about football: "If there's one thing you can predict with
certainty about football it's bad refereeing decisions; they should be
expected; indeed, factored into the game-plan."
That is so out of order, i am lost for words really...

Then you say, we should have put away our chances. But in reality, how can you, if every shot on target is blocked with a handball???

Pots and Oatcakes said...

Next Stoke home game is Manure and we'll play the same way against them; 11 against 11. If we get another result and 'knock them off their perch' I'm sure there'll be a few more happy scousers about. Along with Chelsea, they're the only 'big club' we haven't beaten since our return to the top table and we'll be up for that one! Gooaarnnn Stoke

Mark said...

Kenny was just trying to take a bit of pressure off his players with his comments, thats all.

watching the game yesterday it should be painfully clear that skrtel is not a right back and never will be, so your idea of him standing in for kelly and selling johnson should be revised.

Ynwa said...

Wrong again JK........You can score, yes, and still not win the game, if the referee keeps knocking them off, so you can't, at times, as you say, 'Control your own destiny'.

guest said...

Liverpool just no good enough. Those signing aren't good enough yet very expensive.

roadenders said...

yes... wHingers

Kk Lh said...

m atkinson + h webb  ARE 100 %  anti-liverpool and have already cost us ENOURMOUS!!

MickRick said...

I do not think KD is trying to play the victim card at all as he referred to the FOUR league games so far.  We won two of those games, but there were still problematic decisions.  We ALL want to see refereeing improve and this is in NO WAY related to relying on decisions to win us games or get us goals.  To suggest otherwise is totally misunderstanding what KD was trying to say.

The fact is, it was a decent performance, better than Hodgson had us playing last year at the Brittania with his overly cautious defensive mentality.  On another day we would have won convincingly.  It's one game, learn and move on.  KD will succeed for us if we give him the time and avoid silly criticism of every point he makes post match.

Compared to this time last year when Hodgson has us playing an outdated, overly rigid, defensive (setting the team NOT to lose, rather than win) 4-4-2 AND we had owners who cared little for the club and more for their pockets..... we are a club with renewed optimism and hope.  Don't let the fickle or the wind-up-merchants detract from what has been a good start.

And I never mentioned Rafa (the legend) Benitez once.  It can be done.

Jan Jacobsen said...

It sounds very good, "If you score enough from open play you don't lose."
Thats just nonsense. Stoke didn't score from open play but was handed the game on a silverplate.

Every team will experience games where they simply don't score, and a referee cant stop giving legitimade penalties, because the team should have scored from open play. As I see it the referees don't referee teams the same way.

In this game there where 3 penalty clames and in my opinion the softest one was given.

In United's case, at the end they will get something from the referee, a dive from Nani, a handball that wasn't there or something else. So I understand Kenny's frustration totally. He feels he does'nt get a fair treatment.

jonnysingapore said...

hodgson finally kept his 1st clean sheet today since leaving lfc, against Norwich!

KK has shown that he can make a team play well whether or not it is his team.

We did everything yesterday except finish our chances.  Annoying but decisions like Delap's handball are unacceptable.  The Walters penalty can be justified but you would have 10 pens a game on that basis.

Jamie would realise that except he's a tw5t.

jonnysingapore said...

go back to baseball.

jonnysingapore said...

Nonsense.
we created plenty of chances but didn't finish them.
Delap's handball miss by the ref was truly absurd, not just one of those things.

jonnysingapore said...

Terrific comment.  A sane voice - pls go and comment on the offside site.

It was poor of Liverpool to not finish at least one of the chances they created, but that's perhaps part of the rebuilding experience.  Another day they would have netted a few.

You're right that they will be fine, there's plenty of smarts at the club not least KK, and they've revamped a squad almost completely with a net txfer spend of under £40m and that doesnt include the £30m reduction in the wage bill.

They certainly created enough against a side who make it pretty hard to get through.

Pulis has made intelligent additions with Upson and Woodgate to add to Huth and Shawcross - that's a hell of a defensive line, despite age, and combined with big numbers behind the ball, he's going to embarrass a lot of teams this season.

The thing I would ask about Stoke is how much are they going to score, but again I reckon Pulis has calculated with his transfers that they can do that against probably everyone below say 8th position.  They are going to be tough this year.

jonnysingapore said...

he was slow starting last season aswell, but was fine.  same discussion this year.

jonnysingapore said...

talk of the league is ridiculous, mancs have raised the bar something rotten this year and we are rebuilding.
Looks like whiskey nose is going to get a full season out of Rooney for the first time this season (that's SAF's limitations as a coach) and Hernandez is the signing of the century.  re the stoke game, we are rebuilding and everyone wants the finished product from day 1.  Not realistic.  The good thing is we lost because Delap's handball wasn't given.  We created plenty of chances but didn't finish them and thats with plenty of key players not doing a great job.  I would only be worried if we hadn't created much.  You have to take this as a rebuilding experience.  It won't be the only one.

jonnysingapore said...

No chance.
liverpool had plenty of chances, but they're a new team and they didn't finish them.  Your defence is superb on paper, but its not like we didn't do enough to finish you off and that's with many of our players having a poor game.

Manure will have no trouble taking their chances, whiskey nose has finally got Rooney firing and playing to his potential after 5 years.

Yar doooooomed!

jonnysingapore said...

I think he was compromised by not having a strong squad more than tactics which got us to number 1 in Europe.

AC Milan were very good in that final.  Would have to see it again to really address your accusation though.

Have faith.  It's a new team and we created plenty.

jonnysingapore said...

jesus, real lack of real fans on this site.

jonnysingapore said...

we created plenty, just didn't finish.  chill out.

jonnysingapore said...

he does write some utter tosh.  defo not a fan just runs a website.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Please cut out the sniping comments. I've already deleted a few. If you continue to slag off this site I will ban you.

jonnysingapore said...

you make good points Steve, but have to disagree.  Delap's handball would have reversed the game, those decisions are unacceptable in PL footy.

lfc should have finished their chances - it's not like you stopped them playing and 3 or 4 of pool's players had awful games, but that's just rebuilding experiences.  

lfc showed that the good teams will open you up and score, then when you come out and can't have everyone behind the ball you'll get taken apart.

You will however embarrass many teams and should aim for 6th place.

jonnysingapore said...

spot on.  come and comment on the offside.

abraham said...

carra should be dropped. we should stop nepotism it takes one light years backwards. if in doubt ask africans. we sold soto cos of carra though carra is older. soto is excelling with wolfburg they won today i saw the game. we let aqua go and sold meriles cos of henderson and or adam now the squad is poor and the sons of the soil are not better in any shape of form. i am sad as we cant win with this entitlement attitude. we have lost 21 years with it. whiskey nose will not play carra in the next match if this was manure.

jonnysingapore said...

man ure have won several titles from liverpool getting results in the last game of the season (despite  knob Neville's moron comments).

jonnysingapore said...

man ure have won several titles from lfc getting results in the last game of the season, never mind what that idiot Neville harps on about.

jonnysingapore said...

lol.  Good comment (not a stoke fan).

jonnysingapore said...

this is the site for non-lfc fans.

jonnysingapore said...

Delap's handball was ridiculous.
We never play well after internationals, but it didn't stop us creating.

chill, it's rebuilding.

jonnysingapore said...

that ref's performance isn't anything to do with video.  Just bad decisions. 

Delap's handball could only have been worse if he had picked the ball up.  that would have reversed the game and we would have mullered stoke.

jonnysingapore said...

you have no clue.

Delap's handball couldn't have been worse if he had picked it up.  That would have reversed the game.

jonnysingapore said...

well said.  come and comment on the offside site.

jonnysingapore said...

one penalty (Delap's handball)

jonnysingapore said...

Bizarre that Jamie doesn't see that.  Certainly doesnt see the game as it was played out.

jonnysingapore said...

still think he'll get the team delivering consistently.  

Amazing 1st 6 months rebuilding the squad with great financial savvy.  

This was part of rebuilding experience that tells the players they have to be more clinical.  
that will help us.

The fruits of that amazing six months will be attracting the top level talent next summer when we have CL footy.

jonnysingapore said...

oooerrrr.......

jonnysingapore said...

true, but we created enough to win but didn't finish, and that's with lots of us not playing well.  All part of rebuilding.

KK will learn from it.  
We never play well after internationals but still managed to create.  that's a great sign.

STEPHEN J said...

Pullis makes the best of the team of grafters and grinders he has . It's not his job to make the game an entertaining spectacle. It is down to us to break them down. If we had mugged Barcelona in a similar fashion in a CL match we would be saying what a great rearguard action we had fought. The officials did stink and yes MU always seem to get the rub of the green but hard luck tales win nothing

Der123 said...

We could/should have won...Positives we handed Stoke their arse.Negatives a ref with previous( Kuyt vs Eveton) was never in a million yrs gonna give us anything.Cant understand why he was given that game..F A huh.Pullis spent last season moaning and whining about poor little Stoke never gettin the rub..thats two already this season..would seem to work Jamie? For all you Stoke fans crowing lets see how you go in the europa against the better sides with better refs... thuggery and anti football well done must be so proud of your team.

jj said...

Why does Adam keep shooting from the half way?
Where are those through balls he used to play for Blackpool for DJ Campbell?
Suarez is crying out for them!

Judd19 said...

The biggest problem is Carragher. He is the one who gifted Bolton a goal 2 weeks back and he is the one who made the mistake again in our last match. The question is, should we risk playing him again and again when he is clearly the weak link?

Arv S said...

Mentally it affect players when ref are against you. You cant play well.
jamie as usual very poor  article and analysis and .1. "There may be a some truth to that but the club should not be relying on refereeing decisions to win games." -  We CAN'T rely on poor decision to loose a game. A draw is a draw and a win is a win. 2."I think it's fair to say that most teams will
also *benefit* from bad decisions, including Liverpool. It all balances
out in the end." - who decides about  the balancing and what are the implications (punters, points etc) are you serious jamie? We are not watching WWE.  If for you the carragher  arm block is a penalty then everytime suarez enters the box its a penalty and manure defender should see red  each match.  Dalgish  wants to say something and only wise man will understand it.  Thank god barcelona is not in EPL they have all the ref in their pocket  and their matches against REal are  all staged. Everybody who have TV   and internet can see for themselves  but those who rely on written/printed media will get garbage. sometime balls hit balloon, sometime backpasses allowed.. mark my word everything will be done to discourage suarez to play for liverpool. Who is doing it? Find out it may be too early to prove it..

Freeda Weed said...

Winning is all that matters dear and in this day and age achieving those results in a dubious manner seems to be the norm these days. 

Freeda Weed said...

Jamie Carragher has been responsible for the two goals in the last two games, take a seat and rest ya feet Jamie lad, you have become a liabilty right now.  Thanks for your dedication mate but it's time for you to team up with the back room staff........

jnhaydon said...

The idea that 'bad decisions balance out in the end' is, at best, without any substance in fact; at worst, fallacious. I completely agree with KD's statements, especially because he had nothing to say about the quality of Stoke's performance, & also because if you have questionable decisions going against you four games in a row, something should be said

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