Bravo! John Henry's latest comments about (lack of) player loyalty are *exactly* the kind of thing I want to hear from a Liverpool owner. Mr Henry's stance is a victory for 'The Liverpool Way' of doing things, a philosophy that has fallen down the list of priorities over the years, replaced with the self-absorbed avarice of player power. Thankfully, it seems like Liverpool will be going back to basics. And it's about time.
No player is bigger than the club, and no player *should* be bigger than the club. This is a basic principle that has underpinned the Liverpool FC philosophy for decades. Unfortunately, the artifice inherent in modern football has exerted its insidious influence over the years and that key principle has, at times, fallen by the wayside.
A prime example of this is Javier Mascherano. In the summer of 2009, Mascherano wanted to leave Anfield. Rafa Benitez blocked a proposed move to Barcelona and later revealed in an interview that Mascherano was ‘disappointed’ at having to stay at Liverpool:
“I had to talk to Javier a little bit. Barcelona is a top side, so if a club like Barcelona, who won three trophies in the last year, are interested it’s not easy for any player. We told Javier he was so important for us and we wanted to keep him. He was a bit disappointed as it was a fantastic opportunity with a big club"
Mascherano was 'disappointed' to be staying at Liverpool?! DISAPPOINTED? This really irritated me at the time, and it still does to this day, and I wanted Mascherano out there and then. I don't care how good a player is, or about his perceived importance to the team; if a player doesn't want to be at the club then they should leave. Liverpool will survive.
Now, it seems that Liverpool's new owners agree with that kind of thinking, and it looks like the club may by truly going back to basics. Mr Henry underlined this in a recent statement:
"Frankly, we don't want a player at the club who doesn't want to be at the club".
Absolutely. It doesn't matter who it is or how important they are perceived to be, if the privilege of playing for Liverpool is not good enough for a player then let them leave. Mr Henry added:
"I was upset about the assertion that they [Torres + Reina] were leaving. There was one day when I read reports that we were not going to be involved in the transfer window because we do not have the funds. The next day I read that Torres and Reina were leaving".
"It is a completely different system here to what we are used to. If a player has a contract in the United States they fulfill the contract. Over here, it seems players have much more say-so about where they are".
And that's the problem. We're always hearing how players are thinking of leaving because 'they're not sure the ambitions of the club match their own'. Who the hell are they to disrespect their club like that? The idea that the club has to fit in with THEIR expectations is arrogance of the highest order, and it's part of the sickness eating away at the modern game.
The most recent example of this kind of opprobrious presumptuousness is the embarrassing Wayne Rooney contract debacle at Man United. Rooney threatened to leave and in the end he got his way: a bulging contract that allowed him to become even more overpaid and undeserving. Egregious player power gone made, and proof positive that Rooney IS bigger than Man United.
The whole thing makes me sick, but I'm heartened by Mr Henry's comments as it looks like such a thing would never be allowed to happen at Liverpool. Luckily, Liverpool don't appear to have any players at the club Rooney's disgracefully warped sense of entitlement:
"I have spoken with a number of our top players and was really heartened by the response. I was heartened by the intelligence of these players, who understand more about Liverpool than we do. They were good discussions."
Having said that, if any of Liverpool's players - either now or in the future - decide that they are too good to play for the club, it's clear that the current regime will not tolerate such an attitude.
Bill Shankly would be proud.
Jaimie Kanwar
No player is bigger than the club, and no player *should* be bigger than the club. This is a basic principle that has underpinned the Liverpool FC philosophy for decades. Unfortunately, the artifice inherent in modern football has exerted its insidious influence over the years and that key principle has, at times, fallen by the wayside.
A prime example of this is Javier Mascherano. In the summer of 2009, Mascherano wanted to leave Anfield. Rafa Benitez blocked a proposed move to Barcelona and later revealed in an interview that Mascherano was ‘disappointed’ at having to stay at Liverpool:
“I had to talk to Javier a little bit. Barcelona is a top side, so if a club like Barcelona, who won three trophies in the last year, are interested it’s not easy for any player. We told Javier he was so important for us and we wanted to keep him. He was a bit disappointed as it was a fantastic opportunity with a big club"
Mascherano was 'disappointed' to be staying at Liverpool?! DISAPPOINTED? This really irritated me at the time, and it still does to this day, and I wanted Mascherano out there and then. I don't care how good a player is, or about his perceived importance to the team; if a player doesn't want to be at the club then they should leave. Liverpool will survive.
Now, it seems that Liverpool's new owners agree with that kind of thinking, and it looks like the club may by truly going back to basics. Mr Henry underlined this in a recent statement:
"Frankly, we don't want a player at the club who doesn't want to be at the club".
Absolutely. It doesn't matter who it is or how important they are perceived to be, if the privilege of playing for Liverpool is not good enough for a player then let them leave. Mr Henry added:
"I was upset about the assertion that they [Torres + Reina] were leaving. There was one day when I read reports that we were not going to be involved in the transfer window because we do not have the funds. The next day I read that Torres and Reina were leaving".
"It is a completely different system here to what we are used to. If a player has a contract in the United States they fulfill the contract. Over here, it seems players have much more say-so about where they are".
And that's the problem. We're always hearing how players are thinking of leaving because 'they're not sure the ambitions of the club match their own'. Who the hell are they to disrespect their club like that? The idea that the club has to fit in with THEIR expectations is arrogance of the highest order, and it's part of the sickness eating away at the modern game.
The most recent example of this kind of opprobrious presumptuousness is the embarrassing Wayne Rooney contract debacle at Man United. Rooney threatened to leave and in the end he got his way: a bulging contract that allowed him to become even more overpaid and undeserving. Egregious player power gone made, and proof positive that Rooney IS bigger than Man United.
The whole thing makes me sick, but I'm heartened by Mr Henry's comments as it looks like such a thing would never be allowed to happen at Liverpool. Luckily, Liverpool don't appear to have any players at the club Rooney's disgracefully warped sense of entitlement:
"I have spoken with a number of our top players and was really heartened by the response. I was heartened by the intelligence of these players, who understand more about Liverpool than we do. They were good discussions."
Having said that, if any of Liverpool's players - either now or in the future - decide that they are too good to play for the club, it's clear that the current regime will not tolerate such an attitude.
Bill Shankly would be proud.
Jaimie Kanwar
Spot on. I just watched his full interview and was very impressed. At last it seems we will be building on strong, sustainable foundations. Exciting times.
ReplyDeleteJamie I disagree with a lot of what you write but I agree with you 100% on this one, if you don't want to be here then do us a favour and piss off, don't feel like you have to grace us with your presence.
ReplyDeleteI will even extend these comments to the boys who were suggesting that certain players where underperforming as they where unhappy with the current manager. These players get paid very very well by this club so whether Roy Hodgson or Shankly is the manager they should treat them both the same. Even the fans who are calling for Roy's head would have both Shankly and Paisley, I think the fans need to take a look at themselves and then they will see the reason why footballers behave the way they do.
And for the record the storys circulating about Torres and Reina wanting to leave as they were unhappy with Roy were complete and utter bollocks.
Agreed. Exciting times indeed. Have to say though that I'm not sure about the appointment of Commoli. What happens when the next manager doesn't want to work under a Director of Football? Wenger doesn't; Ferguson doesn't. Having a DoF might actually discourage quality candidates in the future.
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree. The whole player power culture needs to change, and if it's only at Liverpool as a result of the new regime, then so be it.
ReplyDeleteRe Torres and Reina: 95% of of it is probably BS, but there's no smoke without fire. I don't think players are innocent in all this.
Can't believe i'm agreeing with Jamie (Whats my agenda) Kanwar. Players should b sent on their way if they don't wont to play for the club. Having said that if you have a world class player in your midst you can expect him to want to leave if the team has no hope of winning anything or do we expect at player to stay at clubs and not win anything.
ReplyDeleteI think the part of the story which was true was them going to leave if LFC as a club didn't buck it's ideas up, and start moving in the right direction, but then again who would blame them. I think the part that was BS wsa that they were throwing their toys out of the pram as they were unhappy with the manager.
ReplyDeleteWenger and Fergie have a proven track record of bringing in quality so they don't need their transfer dealing scrutinised. Jose Morinho and other managers don't get the final word on who comes at their resepctive clubs.
ReplyDelete:-D .. Well said mate ! Hate over paid prick who thinks they owned the club n can do what ever they like !!if these so called star players wanna leave then piss off!! , there's heaps of player out there under rated and do far better job then this overrated big headed players ! Good news just keep getting better Ynwa !!
ReplyDeleteAs for mr dodgy woy, couple of wins doesn't prove anything if overall team performance is shit ! I'll give him till christmas , by then if were still in mid table he needs to resign or shame on him ! A decade long without a title is long enough next season we have to set our eye for d title , by hook or crook massive improvement has to be made starting this season ! But yet top 4 is minimum target ! Ynwa !
"Frankly, we don't want a player at the club who doesn't want to be at the club. It's really up to us to provide the kind of leadership, on and off the field, that any player at the club or who is coming to the club wants to be here."
ReplyDeletewhy edit out "It's really up to us to provide the kind of leadership, on and off the field, that any player at the club or who is coming to the club wants to be here."....
quite a valid point made be Henry !!!!
We can't expect the loyalty of the players unconditionaly ... club needs to be run right for players to be happy to stay !!!
looking forward to see the Rooney, Fallout...
ReplyDeletei reckon he'll be sold in the summer, mufc i reckon where just protecting there investment .... so as to get a decent transfer fee when alex decides to offload him..
For once Mr Kanwar I concur..
ReplyDeleteJaime to be fair with the players 85% of this Bull Sh*t is caused by there managers. Greedy bast*rds who would sell their mother if it meant they would earn something more.
ReplyDeleteThe final remnants of "The Liverpool Way" have been swept away with the appointment of Commoli, but as "The Liverpool Way" has been slowly dying since Souness was in charge, maybe it is time to just accept that it's gone
ReplyDeleteThis is a sad, sad day. The manager will now become a mere head coach, with minimal affect to scouting network / academy etc when he is dispensed with
A manager, in my opinion, should decide absolutely everything in the club, given that his head ultimately is on the chopping block as regards performances, managing a club by committee doesn't inspire me
As Jaimie points out would Ferguson or Wenger accept being dictated to in such a manner? Or Shankly, Paisley etc. No way!
But where do we find the next legend that will lead us out of the abyss? Perhaps this method will give us a chance to appoint younger up and coming continental managers, but we will not get another managerial dynasty. Hopefully we won't need it
As regards player power, I agree with Jaimie, if someone wants to go let them clear out. That applies to everyone
Jaimie
ReplyDeleteI have been reading your artices with great interest. I'm particular impressed with the data on the transfer activity just goes to show how poorly the club has been run. I feel the latest interiew given by John Henry is spot on if you dot want to play for us move on o dont come(mash your going to regret living Liverpool).
The most important process from hereonin is to get the right player into the first team at Liverpool.
At the moment the jury s still out on the recent purchases by Roy especially Poulson and PAUL KONCHESKY'
I would love to know what peter Robinson thinks of all this it would be very interesting to know.
Keep up the great work
What an irritating set of questions by Roan! How many different ways could Henry tell him that he can't offer assurances about players, Hodgson, transfer funds etc until he knows more about the game?
ReplyDeleteIt's hilarious to watch this American bemusement with English anxiety. Appreciated Henry's honesty - seems like a solid philosophy going forward.
Agree with what you've wrote and so far the new owners are saying the right things,putting it all into practises may be a different matter!I know some comments are being made about Roys signings Konchesky and Poulsen but from what I recall didn't Benitez want to sign those 2 during his tenure?
ReplyDeleteI agree that player power is way out of proportion, and at LFC no player should be allowed to behave as if they are bigger than the team. Having said that, I can see that it is a very tough issue for clubs. Mascherano had expressed a desire to leave - he claimed that the reason was not money, although I am sure that played a part. But imagine you are in a great job, and then your dream job comes up. I certainly don't agree with players simply playing clubs off against each other - that leads to an arms race and then stupid money gets thrown around. But I have to say I was a little bit sympathetic with Masch. He had asked to leave, agreed to stay another season, and then felt like the agreement to sell him was not being honoured. Sure, he had a contract. But the contract in fact protects the club, because transfer values are conected to the contract. If Masch saw out his contract he would leave on a free, and LFC would get nothing. So my feeling is that the problem is mostly to do with the huge wages that clubs like Man City are willing to splurge to tempt what are often just twenty-one year old kids, who we expect to have mature moral positions when millions of pounds are shoved at them. For me the answer would be a wage cap. Then the issue would be mute. Masch wanted to go because his family wanted to move, that is a fair enough request, and he was willing to wait it out, putting in a lot of hard work for the club. I whole-heartedly agree that players should not be forced to stay if they are unhappy, and LFC need to make players feel like they are in the right place - i.e. that the project we are building is one they want to be part of. But that would be a lot easier for all clubs to achieve if there were not the unfair distraction of bigger money that would - quite honestly - turn most peaoples heads.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, I actually have to add, that this is somewhat typical of what happened at LFC regarding the whole H and G scenario. For some reason it is a British disease, the idea that we can just make everything open to the free market, throw rediculous money at things and expect that somehow people will play along in the spirit of cricket. The EPL is a case in point - for some reason we feel like we don't really need robust regulation and conditions. Fit and propper means having the cash in hand. So we open the game to the free market, and then point fingers at individuals when they bear the moral weight of an entirely dysfunctional system. Its all down to the greedy Yanks! Yea, well the system allows for and encourages it. Its all the fault of greedy little blighters like Rooney who just want more money!!! Yea, but its easy to villify one guy and absolve ourselves - we do this so often in this country, it makes me so mad. Rooney is a little shit - I can guarentee you most footballers probably arn't the people you want to have as your best mates. But we load millions and millions of pounds on them, make them responsible for the entire dreams of a nation at the failed world cup, and then we want to crucify them and make our own mediocrity justifiable. I do not absolve Rooney, he is a little shit, as was Ronaldo even more so. I personally think Masch was better behaved - well, up until he refused to play that is. THen he was just the same as the others. But I think that many of these youngsters bear an incredible pressure. And before you turn around and say: well, yes but they get a fortune for it, so they have no right etc, I agree, but I think that we need to look at the culture that is being created. Rooney, Ronaldo and all the others are PRODUCTS of a system where unscrupulous agents play off stupidly-frvolous money, the real winners are the fat, cigar-smoking, Cognac drinking old-boys-club EPL execs, who have absolutely no insentive to intervene as their TV deals get bigger and bigger. So one EPL exec says after the fact that LFC would never have gone bankrupt. Not sure Pompey fans are that warmed to hear the news.
ReplyDeleteI know what you mean, I have been thinking that they may not go for what eveyone conciders to be a big named manager. I would not be surprised is they went for a younger coach. Call me crazy but I would love to see Holloway or O'Driscoll given a chance. A Manger who's entire focus was on the team without the distractions of everything else the job can entail.
ReplyDeleteHolloway and O'Driscoll are pobably to big a risk but I do not see them fancying a Mourinho, Ferguson or even Benítez type Manager due to there massive egos. I believe that they gave there first appointed Manager of the redsocks a "step up" to mange the team and he was a real hit with the players due to his motivation and management skills.
It at least seems like this decision will not be rushed.
I know what you mean, I have been thinking that they may not go for what eveyone conciders to be a big named manager. I would not be surprised is they went for a younger coach. Call me crazy but I would love to see Holloway or O'Driscoll given a chance. A Manger who's entire focus was on the team without the distractions of everything else the job can entail.
ReplyDeleteHolloway and O'Driscoll are pobably to big a risk but I do not see them fancying a Mourinho, Ferguson or even Benítez type Manager due to there massive egos. I believe that they gave there first appointed Manager of the redsocks a "step up" to mange the team and he was a real hit with the players due to his motivation and management skills.
It at least seems like this decision will not be rushed
I agree, Holloway just might be a surprise choice for next manager. He's wacky enough to inspire his players to believe and to do something special
ReplyDeleteSome of the comments regarding Comolli are unbelievable. Not the Liverpool Way, you will find Shankly had his Comolli type man in essence two men, Geoff Twentyman and Tom Saunders who scouted and dossiered players to Shankly.
ReplyDeleteShankly intrusted these men to find the players required and I think that is what NESV are doing. But finding the right man to work with Comolli is not that hard as you think. He worked with Arsene Wenger at Arsenal at idenitifying young talent and provided dossiers on players that in the end Wenger had the final say and worked well until he left for St. Etienne back in 2003 where he had being at Arsenal for 7 seasons. So Comolli's appointment I for one can believe is a good appointment but one that needs a manager to work with him to make it successful and Hodgson is not that man.
We need a young, bright and upcoming manager for the future just like Arsenal did in 1996 appointed a relatively young unknown manager in Wenger, Comolli joined Arsenal in 1996 and had an influence on bring talents as much as Wenger in Anelka, Vieira, Petit, Henry, Ljungberg to name a few.
im not so sure jaimie, the first question asked to 'arry redknapp the other night after bales performance was...will you be able to keep hold of bale...the media have a hell of a lot to answer for in situations like this, as do agents, if riena was considering leaving why would he sign a 5 year deal in the summer and then come out and say, i dont care where we are or who the manager is (not actual quotes but close enough) i am a liverpool player and i love this club, torres said similar, but we all know certain quarters of the press have their own agenda (just watch the sunday supplement on sky) they come out with these stories (onlookers a source a close freind) but we never or very rarely see comments from players, but the point of the post is absolutely correct, there are hundreds of players who would kill for the opportunities these others get, who would play for the shirt and not a lot else, if u dont like the situation sod off, or better still if you dont like the situation pull yr feckin fingers out on the pitch and do summat about it, the manager doesnt mis sitters from 6 yards or give silly free kicks and penalties away
ReplyDeleteWe will also need a Manager willing to play the youngsters!
ReplyDeleteTotally agree, Simon. The Liverpool Way does appear to be dead; however, we do't have to accept that it's dead. I refuse to accept it, which is why I still judge everyone and everything connected with club according to the Standard, i.e. the Shankly philosophy. It may seem outdated to some people but basic standards and values do not just disappear. The Commoli appointment doesn't make 100% sense to me to be honest, but I'lll be exploring the reasons why in an article soon.
ReplyDeleteHolloway? Not that I doubt his ability as a manager but for me personally, he's not Liverpool class. And the wider fanbase would never accept him, or indeed anyone without a superstar track record. Fans would be calling for his head after 4 weeks, not the 4 months given to Hodgson.
ReplyDeleteI see your points, but I personally have a dim view of players. In my view, they're all in it for the money, and all they care about is personal fulfillment. That includes Torres and Reina. If they can find a way to milk some more money out of the club they'll take it. When we hear them say things like 'I love Liverpool and would love to stay for another 3 years', the missing part of the sentence is....'if the price is right'.
ReplyDeleteI didn't include it because it's not relevant to the point I'm making. It doesn't change anything either way; Hentry's point about players remains the same whether I inculde that section or not.
ReplyDeleteHey Aldo - thanks for your comments. I agree with you; after the many transfer failures of the Benitez era it's time for the right players to be bought.
ReplyDeleteGreat points, aw. Footballers are in some ways a product of their environment, and fans are, as you suggest, complicit. Good point also about the club protecting the value of its assets. It just makes me sick that we live in a world where greedy, morally bankrupt, ethically people like Rooney are rewarded for their self-absorbed avarice. I can't support players like that, which is why when such situations occur at Liverpool, I cease to support the player concerned.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree, and if all the new owners do is to instill a culture of: "you should be proud to be here, if not you are free to go", then I think we will be a good step closer to a team that plays with passion. We can't change the world we live in, but we can instill a certain club culture. You know what, I am even starting to think that standing by the current manager may be an important part of that culture. Hmm?
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly what I support the current manager. it's part of our duty as fans to do so; it's part of the dying culture of LFC (i.e. The Liverpool Way) to support Hodgsin, especially in the first 4 months of his reign. Calling for managers to be sacked so early is beneath our fanbase; we leave that sort of thing to other clubs (i.e. newcastle), or at least we did until this season. The more we fans tolerate this kind of behaviour, the more like other clubs we become, and that special magic that sets Liverpool apart from the rest slowly disappears, until ultimately, LFC is indistinguishable from every other club.
ReplyDeleteI don't want that to happen.
That's exactly why I support the current manager. it's part of our duty as fans to do so; it's part of the dying culture of LFC (i.e. The Liverpool Way) to support Hodgsin, especially in the first 4 months of his reign. Calling for managers to be sacked so early is beneath our fanbase; we leave that sort of thing to other clubs (i.e. newcastle), or at least we did until this season. The more we fans tolerate this kind of behaviour, the more like other clubs we become, and that special magic that sets Liverpool apart from the rest slowly disappears, until ultimately, LFC is indistinguishable from every other club.
ReplyDeleteI don't want that to happen.
In my first post, it should say 'ethically challenged'.
ReplyDeleteim just not convinced money is the overriding factor for EVERY player, yes there a huge vast majority that it probably is, but off the top of my head, torres took a drop in salary when coming to liverpool according to himself and rafa they both said so, the man city kaka situation there are a few more i can think of, but what i dont like is the same as you, when players are not honest about it, david silva saying 'd always dreamed of playing for man city, sod off he never would have heard of them 3 years ago! but i read a quote from samuel eto'o a few years ago who said i will go to the club who offers me the most money...in a strange way i dont have much of a problem with that in the sense that its at least u know hes being honest and u know what you're getting, it just so happens hes a brilliant player and has also done his job everywhere hes been, scored goal pretty much for fun
ReplyDeleteI mostly agree with the sentiment that players who don't want to be at a club should go, but your stance is naive. You can't just jettison every player who hints that he wants to, or might want to, leave. Besides the fact that it is rediculous to call them traitorous in any circumstance it would be an absolute disaster if we got a reputation for shipping out players on the cheap every time they publicly or privately stated that they may want a move. We would get even more fleeced in the transfer market then we already do.
ReplyDeleteIf a young player who isn't getting any minutes wants to y'know, play football, it's hardly burning Shankly in effige.