2 Dec 2014

Lawro tells BR: 'Poor' €12m LFC star 'isn't world class' but must start tonight. Agree?

At the weekend, Liverpool goalkeeper Simon Mignolet kept his first clean-sheet in six games, and another one tonight will go a long way to (temporarily) assuaging the criticism flowing his way this season. A clean sheet is the exception rather than the rule for LFC this season, and as I argued yesterday, there is a very strong case for replacing Mignolet with Brad Jones, whose overall goalkeeping stats are superior. Reds legend Mark Lawrenson is not in favour of change, though, and he's urged Brendan Rodgers to stick with the beleaguered Belgian.

In his column this week for the Liverpool Echo, Lawro noted:

"Simon Mignolet continues to struggle for confidence. He isn’t world class - he’s a good goalkeeper going through a poor patch, but there is absolutely zero point in dropping him".

For me, €12m-rated Mignolet should be dropped, and there are very good reasons for taking that course of action. However, he should keep his place for tonight's game against Leicester as a reward for keeping a clean sheet against Stoke.

Statistically, the probability of Mignolet keeping two clean sheets in a row is slim, so if he concedes tonight, then Brad Jones should (IMO) be given a chance at the weekend.

If that doesn't happen, where is the incentive for Mignolet to improve? Part of the problem is that he is guaranteed to play irrespective of form, and that is a clearly a counter-productive state of affairs.

Mignolet needs to feel the fire! If Gerrard can be 'rested', and Lallana/Lovren can be dropped, why not the goalkeeper? Jones may not be the best 'keeper in the league, but it's doubtful that he can do any *worse* than Mignolet.

Incidentally, March 2014 is the last time Mignolet kept two clean sheets in a row. Since then, he's kept a pitiful four clean sheets in twenty-nine games.

Author:



122 comments:

  1. Why is Jones a 'terrible keeper' - What evidence do you have to back that up? The stats show that Jones has superior goalkeeping stats to Mignolet (concedes less, and keeps more clean sheets), so how is he 'terrible'?

    Perhaps you can provide some concrete evidence to back up your point that Jones is 'terrible'. You seem to believe it so emphatically, so this should be easy, no?

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  2. He'll never be anyone's top choice, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he's terrible. That's a little harsh.

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  3. This is not true, and it's just an excuse. Jones has played against Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Swansea, Southampton, Newcastle, Spurs etc - all prem clubs, and the same teams Mignolet has faced.

    The idea that Jones' stats are skewed is just nonsense.

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  4. No, you are 'incorrect', and like so many others, you're just spouting the same old view without any evidence. Jones has mostly played against Prem opposition, i.e. Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Swansea, Southampton, Newcastle, Spurs etc, not lower-league opposition. He's also played in the Europa League. Perhaps you should get your facts straight before just parroting what everyone else is saying?

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  5. ormebeast@gmail.com
    Regarding free adds..

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  6. I believe it from having watched them. Stats are fine but they are not a means of proving all differences of opinion. There are many points you put forward emphatically that are just your opinion. This is mine. Do you honestly believe that Jones is a better keeper than Mignolet? If so fine that's your opinion. My opinion is that he's not and never will.

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  7. the match he came on versus blackburn is enough evidence we need for us to think he is terrible. watching him in that match was like watching the u10 keepers

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  8. Maybe it is a little harsh but he should never be playing 1st team football for Liverpool.

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  9. I think Kolo Toure is the best leader we have at the club.He motivates weaker characters with words, claps of encouragement, high fives, pats on the back etc... A big personality and a real leader of men.
    If i was a new centre back or fullback with low confidence, KT is someone I'd want to be playing with.
    He organises our backline with good communication.Liverpool have benefited from the experience he brings to the table/pitch too.
    JK why was my post on Mario Balotelli (which had no bad language) removed?

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  10. Think only Jaimie is arguing with you on that one mate

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  11. That means nothing, and does not constitute a reason. Why does one game overrule Jones' form overall? All players make mistakes; Jones very rarely makes mistakes. Is Gerrard's career defined by his slip against Chelsea, or do you consider his effectiveness over his entire career?

    The same should apply to Jones. Like so many others, you are not being fair in the slightest.

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  12. He's a bad keeper. You can say what you want, pull out any stats you want. He'll still be a bad keeper.

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  13. Sorry, but calling Jones 'terrible' just because you watched him carries zero weight. Provide some examples of his terrible play. My view on Jones is not an opinion, it is fact. As a matter of irrefutable fact, Jones has superior goalkeeping stats to Mignolet, and that inarguably means he is a more effective goalkeeper. 'Better' has nothing to do with it, as that is mostly subjective.

    So, again - please provide examples of why Jones is 'terrible'. If you're going to diss a player like that, you should be able to back it up.

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  14. What choice do we have ?

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  15. Your view carries no weight. You can keep saying it but it means nothing unless you can back it up with sound reasoning.

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  16. You make me laugh. Do you think Jones is a better (more likely to make Liverpool win) than Mignolet? Yes or no will suffice.

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  17. My eyes, that's all the reasoning I require to pass judgement on this subject.

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  18. the problem with jones is when he came in that season as cover in the FA cup, we as supporters had zero confidence in him as our keeper. mignolet is awful at commanding his area but he is a good shot stopper but jones does not command his area any better. i got worried every single time the opposition had the ball near our area when jones was in goal. thats just me and some may agree and other may not. everybody is entitled to their opinion. nobody is right or wrong
    but i think it is time for us to move on from migs and have him as our second keeper but id rather have migs over jones in between the sticks til the appropriate cover is found.

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  19. Damn mate, just write- he was very poor in that game vs...

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  20. I'd take the under 21 GK over mignolet for now. seems like a better option to Simon.

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  21. Mignolet showed better form last game and do should keep his place. If it had been bad I may have agreed a rest nay be the right choice as form for a while wad bad but if there is a sign he is turning it around he should always be first choice of the options. Australia's fourth or fifth choice should never be our first.

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  22. He might be but not Jones.

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  23. still waiting for your proof of statement. Let;s not divert to someone or something else. We are waiting to disagree.

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  24. No choice actually because of Brenda's inept judgement and signings.

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  25. As I said, a purely subjective view carries little weight. I could go around saying 'Gerrard is a terrible player', and just use my own experience of watching him play as 'proof', but that view would carry zero weight as it's blatantly an incorrect view. As is yours about Jones.

    I don't think anyone believes Jones is the long-term solution, but to describe him as 'terrible' (without offering evidence to back it up), means your view has no weight whatsoever.

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  26. What does Jones being an Australian got anything to do with Team selection. If you are good you get picked. If not warm the bench,

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  27. Yes, at this stage, Jones is a better option. Mignolet is conceding 1.5 goals per game this season, which is *worse* than last season, when he conceded 53 goals. If he continues like this, then extrapolated across a whole season, LFC will concede close to 70 goals.


    Jones, on the other hand, has conceded only 1.2 goals per game across his entire LFC career; plus, he achieves more clean sheets (and he's played against lots of top teams, including Arsenal, Chelsea, and Spurs).

    The only thing that's laughable here is your complete inability to back up your point, and your insistence on peddling a false myth about Jones, which you've clearly just adopted from other LFC fans.

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  28. Keeping faith on your signings is a good thing from a managers perspective. But if that compromises the team results it is not acceptable.

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  29. Stats stats stats. They don't tell the full story. An opinion can be formed with your own eyes. Your in the business of disagreeing. More clicks more time on the site etc. How can an opinion be a false myth. It's an opinion.

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  30. Which you would take as being solely based on stats. Laughable.

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  31. Can I just be the first to say that Jones has mainly played in cup competitions against lower league opponents which may have distorted the stats. Get in there!

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  32. Not that he is Australian. Just replace Australian with international. But if it was one of ghe stronger international teams being fourth fifth choice may not seem too bad but a less successful less prestigious international team may make it seem worse. But your right he is a bench warmer because he is not all that good.

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  33. What are his stats against premium teams. That can help your argument surely.

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  34. Deleting that post wad unfair on itsmyview. Nothing there offensive.

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  35. That is a good point. Wish I had said it.

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  36. Why didn;t someone say he was Australian before. No need to debate it any further he should just be deported.

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  37. You are just doing the same thing everyone does when they don't like a set of stats: excessively drill-down to the nth degree until you find something that backs up your view. If, for example, Jones' stats against Premium teams are top-notch, you'll just move onto something else, until you find something that doesn't look great.

    Conversely, if you agree with a set of stats, I doubt you'll be asking for endless clarifications.

    For the record, Jones has only played 3 games against lower-league opposition, which makes a mockery of the repeated false contention that his stats are skewed by playing against lesser teams.

    He's played 8 prem games, 5 European games, 6 FA Cup (including games vs. Arsenal and Everton), and only 4 league cup.

    The overall stats are what matter, not stats against 'premium' teams. Such a comparison is unfair as Mignolet has played significantly more games than Jones. Averages are the most accurate way to gauge effectiveness.

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  38. Not every football opinion should require a heavy defence case full of stats to support a view.
    Eyes are the best way to judge a player, not stats from a computer.There are no stats to grade presence and how a keeper commands his box.
    No stats to rate communication with the backline.The most used and important keeper stat is goals conceded.Which falls heavily into the overall defensive unit category.
    Many rate Manuel Neuer as the best keeper in the world.But his stats would look like garbage compared to other top GK's, if he played behind a weak defence.
    Kenny Dalglish and Damien Comolli wasted a fortune recruiting players with the help of stats.Heading duels won, crossing frequency and accuracy etc...
    I wish they used their eyes instead!

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  39. As per usual spot on! Physically he may have waned but the desire to defend & win is ever present!!

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  40. Haha. Good one.

    It's false, though. The only lower-league teams Jones has played against are Oldham, Mansfield, Northampton, and Bournemouth.

    The majority of his games are against Prem/European opposition, including Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, Newcastle, Anzhi, Southampton, Spurs, West Brom etc

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  41. AsI said lower league opposition

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  42. Ojo means rain in Yoruba, a Nigerian dialect!

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  43. Funny thing is I remember looking myself and they were decent. That was last season like. Just thought it may be worth posting to ne a part of the debate. Debate rather than accusing people of doing something they may not be as a standard defence.

    The averages thing seems like a funny argument as when I used it regarding Lovren and Skrtel's stats you disagreed even though they were averages per game. One thing which I think is important is context. Stats without context are near meaningless. One argument against Jones stats may be who was in defence. Protection is a massive thing for goals conceded. Like I argued last season what happens with his colleagues are also very important. What you should be doing as we are talking about stats is looming at saves pee game thay way we can loom at a ratio of saves faced and saves made. That is a touch clearer but there is a lack of clarity in the stats you put up. Crosses caught etc cam be sought if you were serious about an actual comparison. For my money I would say Jones catches more crosses Than MIngs.

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  44. No, not every view requires a factual defence, but when someone makes an emphatic negative statement about a player, then it should be backed up and/or the person making the point should be prepared to back it up when challenged.

    Eyes are not the best way to judge a player; that's human ego talking. If that was really the case, there would be no need for stats. The world runs on stats, and football is no exception.

    There's a reason why eyewitness testimony is deemed to be massively unreliable in court cases: human perception is deeply flawed. If it wasn't, we'd take peoples' word on everything, but that's not the case.

    And as for Neuer - his stats do not look like garbage compared to other top keepers, so I'm not sure where you get that from. For Bayern:

    * 115 goals conceded in 174 games (1 every 1.5 games)

    * 91 clean sheets (52% of games)

    Neuer's stats are absolutely superb, and he exceeds some of the world's other top keepers.

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  45. Didn't that guy Smith destroy Coates in the Oldham game so not totally Jones fault and Northampton gives me headaches don't recall the other 2 games - I wish we had 2 better keepers then all this unseemly stuff could be avoided- we are all Liverpool fans are we not

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  46. You haven't read my post properly regarding Neuer!

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  47. Be fair he hasn't got time to read the posts AND argue with them

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  48. My favorite pee game is called Put Out The Fire. It involves chasing the cat around the house while attempting to urinate on him.

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  49. Okay, but saying that Neuer's stats would be rubbish if he played behind a weak defence is an unsupportable view. It's purely speculative, and can't really form the basis of a solid argument (IMO)

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  50. What you set your cat on fire? You monster.

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  51. Yes, but latest stats show I have a 56% chance of putting him out.

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  52. You have a higher chance of putting hi out at night

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  53. No. By then I'm usually p!ss!ng pure alcohol.

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  54. Jaimie I wish it was a requirement for posters to state their age and team they support before making any comment. Whilst age alone is no guarantee that contributors comments are sound it would at least allow readers to view them with some degree of perspective.

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  55. I like those odds.

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  56. Mignolet's 7 clean sheets -

    10/11 season - FC Utrecht - Europa Cup
    12/13 season - Gomel - Europa Cup

    - Reading - Prem
    - Anzi - Europa Cup
    - Norwich - Prem
    13/14 season - Oldham - FA Cup
    - Bournemouth - FA Cup


    Not really spectacular opposition of the level of Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Swansea, Southampton, Newcastle and Spurs, who combined put 16 past Jones in 9 games, 1.8 goals per game!!!!





    Mignolet's record while on loan from us at Derby County in the Championship season 10/11 from March to May -



    16 goals conceded in 7 games 2.3 per game

    (I notice this isn't factored into your stats above even though he was an LFC player at the time getting an extended run in a team, although I can see why as he wasn't playing for LFC at the time)



    Criticised by Nigel Clough after second to last game for an error and replaced in the next game by Derby's academy keeper!


    15 games in cup competitions
    4 of those against EPL opposition (conceded 7 in those 4 games 1.75 goals per game)

    8 EPL games conceding 11 goals 1.375 (1.4 when you round it up) goals per game.


    Brad Jones' performance against the better level of opposition IMO does not back up your statement that he is irrefutably more effective than Mignolet.


    You can't simply take Brad Jones and Simon Mignolets total games played and total goals conceded, divide them up and say this proves X, Y and Z - It's just too simplistic


    I also notice you have rounded up Mignolet's GPG figure from 1.37 and Jones' has been rounded down from 1.26

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  57. I'd like to see him play behind our defence.


    No I really would like to see him play behind our defence.

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  58. Nevertheless I always manage to put my cat out at night ;-)

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  59. As I said yesterday, Lee Cattermole's stats are better than Sergio Busquets. I'd imagine Barca must be contacting his agent as we speak

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  60. I await with interest replies from those who said Brad Jones has performed largely against lower Division opposition. At the moment the silence is deafening so it would seem your statement is sound. Brad Jones has proved to be a patient and loyal servant of LFC and I too believe he should be given the chance to show his mettle if supporters and ex-LFC players continue to disapprove of Simon Mignolet.

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  61. Hi David, I'm 40 (and a half) and have supported LFC since the early 80's when I was in primary school (although I will admit I only really started supporting them then cause all my mates did).

    I think my comment is, admittedly a little sarcastic, but sound. I have made it on a simplistic assessment of the available stats for me and my son (again, admittedly sarcastically) to point out, what I believe is a simplistic assessment of the stats in the article.

    Please take a look at my reply to JK below, where he has replied to a guest poster and hopefully that will help you make up your mind as to whether the above comment by me was sound (and admittedly sarcastic) or not.

    And just to put the record straight before anyone thinks any different, I'm not a JK hater, just a daily reader and, when I comment, a "more often than not" JK disagree-er.

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  62. Yes it's a opinion that can't be supported.Just very logical in my eyes.Keepers who play behind weak defensive structures concede more.So the goals shipped stat would take a battering.It's common sense.
    Showing the Simon Mignolet, De Gea comparison is pointless.Man Utd have had a better defensive structure.I take patchy over garbage.
    Put David De Gea behind Liverpool's defensive unit and I'd be amazed if he didn't concede more.He isn't Superman.

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  63. So as long as the stats look good that's all that matters. If that was the case why do clubs have scouts? If they only needed stats all that would be required would be data loggers to get the stats and all you'd have to do is pick the guy with the best stats. What a simple easy job it would be. The human factor will ALWAYS be required. To say otherwise, or to pass it off as ego, is blatantly wrong.

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  64. You're totally ignoring the context in a bid to make a flippant point. Cattermole's stats are better right now, over a small number of games. That can happen. It means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

    If you compare Busquet and Cattermole over a statistically significant period of time (i.e. a couple of years), it's a different story.

    Plus, the stats used by Redknapp in his article only take into account three things: Blocks, clearances, and tackles. Are these the only three things a midfielder does? No, so it's a deliberately narrow comparison manipulated to make a tenuous point.

    What about other comparators, like passing accuracy, for example? The comparison comes from a typically English mindset: emphasis on the physical aspects of the game rather than the stuff that actually helps teams win games.

    Additionally, Redknapp leaves out the number of games used for his comparison; for all we know, it could be 5 games.

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  65. Comparing to our defence and keeper is not really a good argument. What are the actual stats for clean sheets? Saves pet game etc?

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  66. Are goals against the only stats thay matter for a keeper? Same argument regarding the midfielders.

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  67. Goals against and clean sheets are the two main stats for a goalkeeper. I've used both, not just one.

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  68. one swallow doent make a summer

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  69. You make me laugh. That flippant comment as you called it was based on a person's interpretation of stats. I kind of made a point. By picking and choosing stats you can make them say what you want. You use 2 stats. What about their respective save percentages. Surely that should be included in ANY discussion on a keeper. Odviously in association with a visual report from a scouting department.

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  70. Ironicaly the biggest flaw of Migs is neither. We conceede goals mainly because our defence and midfield are atrocious. His flaws are Dracula thing and not comanding the box in general...

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  71. migs biggest flaw is his inability to stop the ball going into the net ......oh i forgot he cant kick it either

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  72. but to counter that the liverpool teams he plays in are also lower quality and contain fringe players ...check mate

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  73. You are being harsh
    Mignolet is a good keeper
    did you forget that save vs southampton and all the saves he made vs real madrid
    Mignolet is not superman

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  74. jones has been okay in the games ive watched ...donr forget when he usually plays its the fringe players ( muppet show) he usually plays with ...all these brilliant players ( next ronaldos ) who we loan out but cant even get games for the crap clubs we loan them to ....jones is a solid player who is just as good as mingo who is a complete joke

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  75. Jones only had a brief run in pl when Reina was injured and we had a much stronger defnce then

    if i am not mistaken the only pl game he started under rodgers was vs Southampton in pl when we lost 3-1 and he was at fault for two of the goals




    i am currently studying Edexcel s4 applied to Maths and stats for uni and i can tell you stats can be very misleading

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  76. And who has decided that? Save percentage must surely trump clean sheets. Would you bother with a scouting report? Or would you just make all decisions solely on the stats?

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  77. .jones is a solid player who is just as good as mingo who is a complete joke



    Really?

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  78. law of averages when you are getting peppered you make a couple of saves ....hes crap pure and simple he cant even kick a ball and no one on here will convince me otherwise

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  79. Have you the stats to back your ascersion that they can be misleading? Otherwise that's just opinion and carries no weight. : )

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  80. i mis typed that but you get my gist .....id go back and edit it but my computers crap

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  81. I dream of becoming a sports statistician
    got 4 offers waiting for one more

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  82. Yeah, I fIgured, but too funny to just let it pass..

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  83. You should rename your computer Mignolet ;)

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  84. In your opinion they are the main stats. Problem is both those stats are heavily influenced by teammates. If opposition are getting more clear cut chances you are going to concede more. You have opta account and profess that stats are wholly important but are reluctant to add enough statistical analysis to actually debate the topic properly. What how.many saves are the players making, how many chances are the opposition getting, crosses caught etc are vital in deciding how well a keeper is doing statistically. Those two you mention are very shallow and only show how bad at defending we are as a team. And don't get me wrong I am not Mingolet's biggest fan, if I thought there was a serious argument for starting Jones ahead of him I would be all ears but what you have posted (in previous article) are totally unconvincing. If you seriously believed the point I am unsure why you wouldn't just do the research and post the stats rather than arguing the toss. If Jones is statistically the better keeper then it can be shown in stats. What you have shown is not much at all.

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  85. i knew someone would pick up on it .....but i was thinking if they think mingo is good they will be to f@%king dumb to notice

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  86. So you are calling me dumb...

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  87. but it still performs most of its functions as a computer all be it slower where as mingo performs non of his functions as a goalie

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  88. There is a lot less anger, and a lot more humour and intelligent commentary in your articles these days jamie. keep it up

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  89. Good computers could be associated with Mignolet because they do not catch viruses so it is not a good comparison to make.

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  90. Nonsense. I don't need to drill down to the nth degree and post endless secondary stats to prove that Jones is a more effective keeper than Mignolet. Clean sheets and goals conceded prove that, just like goals/assists are the primary stats needed to prove the effectiveness of an attacking player.

    I haven't argued that Jones is a better all-round keeper, or the long-term solution for LFC; I've merely argued that he is worthy of being given a run in the team, and that he is not 'terrible'.

    The stats I've used are more than enough to back-up both those points.

    You can keep going on and on about how the stats are unconvincing, but you are wrong. Objectively, the stats are wholly convincing, and your subjective view on the issue doesn't change that.

    When anyone in any sphere of football analyses goalkeepers, the two principal stats used are goals conceded and clean sheets. Ditto goals and assists for attacking players. Secondary stats also play a part, but those are the main stats.

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  91. He's excellent at cleaning the ball

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  92. Why does save percentage trump clean sheets? That makes no sense. A goalkeeper can have a high save % percentage and terrible goals conceded ratio (like Mignolet, for example).

    Having more clean sheets is clearly more important than save %, as clean sheets actually win points, and save games.

    Also, why don't you stop posting pointless comments like 'why bother with a scouting report'. The answer to this is blatantly obvious; do you really need me to explain it?

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  93. Liverpool echo expects Gerrard in the line up. Good call, as long as he knows he will be subbed, on time..

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  94. Interesting subjective article

    http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1036606-world-football-debate-how-does-one-evaluate-the-worth-of-a-goalkeeper

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  95. No. I wanted to see Lucas in the team and definitely do not want to see Gerrard and Lucas together.

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  96. Lucas and Gerrard will be worst combination

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  97. Lukas as DM, Gerrard as AM for me. with Hendo and Lallana in between.

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  98. Have a feeling Allen might start

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  99. With the greatest respect, this type of comment shows exactly what fan perception of players/games is so flawed.

    Jones was not at fault for any of the goals in the 3-1 Saints defeat, yet you're peddling the myth that he made mistakes.

    * Goal1: Cross from the right; Johnson beaten to a header in the box; ball knocked down; Saints player gets in front of Skrtel and scores from 6 yards. Jones had no chance.

    Goal 2: lambert free kick. Big deflection off the wall and into the net. Again, Jones no chance.

    Goal 3: From the halfway line, Rodriguez waltzed through LFC's midfield and defence, and surged into the box. Hammered in a shot; Jones saved it, but he got the deflection. Hardly a mistake. Defence/midfield just parted like the red sea.

    http://www.liverpoolfc.com/video/fixtures/first-team/2012-2013/southampton-vs-liverpool-2013-3-16-15-00-00#14257

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  100. Mignolet, Manquillo, Johnson, Toure, Skrtel, Lucas, Gerrard, Henderson, Lallana, Sterling, Lambert.



    Why Gerrard and Lucas?

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  101. See the bleacher report article. It goes into the difficulty with stats and goalkeepers.

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  102. I think its a diamond with Gerrard at the tip

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  103. My friend has said the same. He teaches stats and has a doctorate. No offence to Jaime but I will take his word on the matter.

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  104. Not too bad but I think Moreno did a Terry

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  105. Or it might be
    Lucas-Hendo
    Lallana-Gerrard-Sterling
    Lambo

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  106. That article is entirely subjective, and is predicated on a series of baseless points, none of which are backed up with any kind of credible, factual reasoning. it's basically one guy's opinion...which you will obviously champion like it's absolute truth, mainly because it fits your POV.

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  107. You just explained Any three goals due to context yet you don't see how clean sheets and goals conceded can be misleading? Save percentage shows how many shots are being saved in context of shots faced it gives an indication of how much protection the keeper gets and how well he does when facing a shot. Clean sheets only shows clean sheets and nothing about the keeper.

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  108. Why would I take offence? You can believe whatever you want, but the idea that stats are 'misleading' is complete nonsense. The way stats are *used* can be misleading, but the raw data itself - in most cases - is irrefutable fact. This is why the world is run on stats. Every conceivable sphere of life is statistically analysed and categorised, and every major organisation (whether it's sport, business, government, science etc) places a higher importance on stats than human perception. There is a reason for this, and no amount of deference to the magic of human interpretation will change that.

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  109. Not at all but it does bring in some interesting thoughts on picking a narrow group of stats for evaluating a keeper. As you may remember I'm not the biggest fan of solely stat based decisions on pkayers

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  110. Liverpool: Mignolet, Manquillo, Toure, Skrtel, Johnson, Henderson, Gerrard, Lucas, Sterling, Lambert, Lallana.
    Subs: Brad Jones, Lovren, Coutinho, Moreno, Can, Allen, Markovic.

    Comfirmed

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  111. Here is another article regarding stats and keepers

    http://statsbomb.com/2014/10/goalkeepers-how-repeatable-are-shot-saving-performances/

    It's interesting reading and shows the difficulty in evaluating them.

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  112. I think its a good line up

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  113. Secondary? Sorry bud but that is laughable. It's not nth degree it is the first and foremost. How can I bring wrong that the stats are unconvincing when that seems to be the majority view. Lots of people unconvinced. Cab you add a vote to the article then? See who is convinced?

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  114. Clean sheet figures show everything about the 'keeper. That stat obviously incorporates shots saved, as shot-stopping=no goals conceded.

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  115. I'm not interested in how many people are 'convinced'. I don't write stuff to force people to change their views. This is my view - whether people agree or not is not the issue. They have their view, I have mine. The quality of someone's argument is not determined by the number of people who agree.

    And as for primary and secondary stats. Scoff all you like, but that is an accurate classification of football-related stats, and if the best counter-argument you can come up with is 'but other people are not convinced', then perhaps you should just go and discuss the issue with someone else.

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  116. can your friend help a fellow lfc fan in anyway?
    maybe help me get on the route

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  117. This article goes into the difficulty of evaluating stats for keepers

    http://statsbomb.com/2014/10/goalkeepers-how-repeatable-are-shot-saving-performances/

    It's a mine field and picking 2 stats to base a decision on is just wrong. No matter how much someone tries to argue it.

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  118. Yeah that post is the reason this is a pointless argument. Sorry but you either have a very poor understanding of stats and what they indicate or a much more self serving intention. I think your probably intelligent enough to be the latter. I'm off.

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  119. I'll bet you guys will never guess what comment I want to make.

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  120. Wait over ;)

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