Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers is doing a fantastic job at Anfield, but as I've repeatedly argued this season, his performance in the transfer market leaves a lot to be desired. I've made this point (in detail) many times, but despite the evidence, many fans continue to ignore the obvious reality. Well, it appears that Reds legend Jamie Carragher shares my concerns.
When it comes to Rodgers' transfer business, the basis of my argument is as follows:
* BR has wasted big money players who make zero contribution.
* Only two of his signings - Sturridge and Coutinho - are bona-fide success stories.
* Sakho and Mignolet are not flops, but they have not moved the club forward.
* LFC have suffered a 'loss of utility' as a result of transfer funds being spent unwisely.
Re point 4: The most obvious example of this is the paper-thin squad against Chelsea and Crystal Palace. When it came to the crunch, Liverpool had no one on the bench who could come on and change games, and this could contribute to LFC losing out on the title.
If transfer funds had been spent on better/more suitable players, it's probable these players might've made a telling impact the team. In his column this week for the Daily Mail, Carra basically outlined the same argument as me. He noted:
"Look at last summer’s signings. Simon Mignolet and Mamadou Sakho have done OK but need to improve, while the rest — Iago Aspas, Luis Alberto, Victor Moses and Aly Cissokho — have failed to contribute. What difference would they have made if they had been a success?"
Fans can come up with every excuse under the sun, but the reality is exactly as Carra describes: The bulk of Rodgers signings since 2012 have failed to make a specific, measurable positive contribution to the cause. Deny it all you like, but it's not even an opinion; it's an objective fact.
It's quite amazing that LFC have sustained a serious title challenge this season despite the abject waste of transfer funds, and that is a testament to Rodgers' superb managerial ability. However, if he keeps buying the wrong players, his luck will eventually run out, and it will affect the club, as it has in the last two league games.
Carra also highlighted the transfer failures of both Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez in the summers of 2002 and 2009 respectively, and noted that both managers wasted the positive momentum of finishing 2nd in the league by bringing in dud players. Again, this is an argument I've made regularly over the last couple of months.
Carra knows his stuff, and I personally feel vindicated for making these arguments. There's no special insight on my part here, just a willingness to set aside pro-LFC bias, and see the reality of the situation. And it's not being negative, either. As a comparison: when an early-warning system detects a massive Tsunami on the horizon, is that negative? No. It's a positive, as it highlights a major threat, which - if quickly addressed - can be avoided.
Why do I repeatedly make these points? There's a very thin line between success and failure, and LFC's history is painful reminder of this. The transfer market failures in 2002 and 2009 led to years of regression, and in Benitez's case, a costly four-year absence from the Champions League.
I don't want that to happen again, which is why I consistently point out the signs that LFC is on a similar path. It's important to learn from the past to secure the future, and since Rodgers arrived, he's made the same mistakes as Houllier and Benitez in the transfer market, and for me, this is a cause for concern.
Of course, some fans never want to face the truth, especially when the club is doing well, but what use is this season's forward progress if it's sabotaged during the upcoming summer transfer window? If Rodgers gets it wrong again, and LFC drop out of the top four next season, I'm sure fans will be moaning about it (!)
Bottom line: Rodgers performance in the transfer market needs to improve big time this summer, or Liverpool will face regression once again.
Author: Jaimie K
When it comes to Rodgers' transfer business, the basis of my argument is as follows:
* BR has wasted big money players who make zero contribution.
* Only two of his signings - Sturridge and Coutinho - are bona-fide success stories.
* Sakho and Mignolet are not flops, but they have not moved the club forward.
* LFC have suffered a 'loss of utility' as a result of transfer funds being spent unwisely.
Re point 4: The most obvious example of this is the paper-thin squad against Chelsea and Crystal Palace. When it came to the crunch, Liverpool had no one on the bench who could come on and change games, and this could contribute to LFC losing out on the title.
If transfer funds had been spent on better/more suitable players, it's probable these players might've made a telling impact the team. In his column this week for the Daily Mail, Carra basically outlined the same argument as me. He noted:
"Look at last summer’s signings. Simon Mignolet and Mamadou Sakho have done OK but need to improve, while the rest — Iago Aspas, Luis Alberto, Victor Moses and Aly Cissokho — have failed to contribute. What difference would they have made if they had been a success?"
Fans can come up with every excuse under the sun, but the reality is exactly as Carra describes: The bulk of Rodgers signings since 2012 have failed to make a specific, measurable positive contribution to the cause. Deny it all you like, but it's not even an opinion; it's an objective fact.
It's quite amazing that LFC have sustained a serious title challenge this season despite the abject waste of transfer funds, and that is a testament to Rodgers' superb managerial ability. However, if he keeps buying the wrong players, his luck will eventually run out, and it will affect the club, as it has in the last two league games.
Carra also highlighted the transfer failures of both Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez in the summers of 2002 and 2009 respectively, and noted that both managers wasted the positive momentum of finishing 2nd in the league by bringing in dud players. Again, this is an argument I've made regularly over the last couple of months.
Carra knows his stuff, and I personally feel vindicated for making these arguments. There's no special insight on my part here, just a willingness to set aside pro-LFC bias, and see the reality of the situation. And it's not being negative, either. As a comparison: when an early-warning system detects a massive Tsunami on the horizon, is that negative? No. It's a positive, as it highlights a major threat, which - if quickly addressed - can be avoided.
Why do I repeatedly make these points? There's a very thin line between success and failure, and LFC's history is painful reminder of this. The transfer market failures in 2002 and 2009 led to years of regression, and in Benitez's case, a costly four-year absence from the Champions League.
I don't want that to happen again, which is why I consistently point out the signs that LFC is on a similar path. It's important to learn from the past to secure the future, and since Rodgers arrived, he's made the same mistakes as Houllier and Benitez in the transfer market, and for me, this is a cause for concern.
Of course, some fans never want to face the truth, especially when the club is doing well, but what use is this season's forward progress if it's sabotaged during the upcoming summer transfer window? If Rodgers gets it wrong again, and LFC drop out of the top four next season, I'm sure fans will be moaning about it (!)
Bottom line: Rodgers performance in the transfer market needs to improve big time this summer, or Liverpool will face regression once again.
Author: Jaimie K
Really quite tiresome, all people seem to want to do is outline the not so good. Don't see any articles shining a bright light on the amazing work Brendan and his pathetically thin squad have done this season.... nah! that would be too easy and probably too boring..... Really really sad that all I ever read here is something to moan about.
ReplyDeleteI think Rodgers himself admits the point you are making when he says he is looking for team players rather than squad players.
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely right that the summers transfers are Critical. The momentum will be totally lost if we get the transfers wrong.
Like most fans I am hoping a combination of Champions league football and Champions league money will allow us to bring in the right quality.
I would like to see another big clear out and 3 or 4 top players and maybe 3 or 4 top youth talents being brought in, to develop and add future value.
This needs to be addressed. I'm not sure how much say Rodgers has in all the signings as there are a few he clearly had no faith in from the start and never played.
ReplyDeleteIf we can buy 3 or 4 players who can make a genuine impact we will push on next season with the extra games in Europe. Another summer like last year and I can only see stagnation
And there is the reason we've not had the better players, players who are good enough to wear the iconic Liverpool red... Unfortunately CL is what is required, without it BR didn't really stand a chance, and as such any decent players he got was pure luck more than the bad players being poor judgement...
ReplyDeleteWe'll see now just who wants to play for arguably the most actractive team in top flight football...
have to agree rodgers needs to up his game regards of buying players look at spurs wasted 100 milliion rodgers is facing his biggest challenge bcos now we expect to do better we need to hit the nail on the head buying the right talent rakitic muriel mvilla lucas allen need to go
ReplyDeleteRumours are that any new contarct is coming with clauses allowing him more control over transfers....My fingers are crossed that he will be vindicated and supported...
ReplyDeleteDont agree about Allen. Agger, Lucas, Coates, Assaidi, Aspas, Johnson.
ReplyDeleteAllen is playing some very effective football and he deserves to be here... He has a role to play and he does it well...
ReplyDeleteLucas unfortunately has lost something after struggling with seriuos injury in the line of duty.... do we just kick him in the teeth now with no thanks for superb service to the club... Get a grip.
i remember coming back from anfield disgusted with lucas in 2008 he changed things round and i was the one who had him first on the teamsheet in 2011 but now he has regressed somuch it sickens me cant pass cant protect and causes needless fouls if im no good at my job they let me go lucas not good enough get rid sorry
ReplyDeleteRegardless of any discussion on whether Rodgers has full control or a transfer committee does, the fact of the matter is that until now we couldn't offer CL football so we couldn't get our top targets. Mkhitaryan and/or Willian and/or Costa would've made great impacts, and Rodgers wanted them, and especially considering how Costa has done this season that shows he knows what he is (or what he wants to be) doing in the transfer market. Salah and/or Konoplyanka also would've made an impact, but the owners wouldn't go above a set budget. Now that we have CL football, have broken all these scoring records and are a team that plays a style any player would want to be a part of, there will be no more handicaps provided the owners are willing to splash the cash to a certain degree. This summer is when we can truly judge Rodgers on his ability in the transfer market, when nothing is left to hold him back.
ReplyDeleteIt confuses me what you actually want Jamie. It's obvious we need a strong bench ( we did actually have Sturridge on the bench against Chelsea and coutinho against Palace). But when we have quality on the bench you raise the argument that they wont be happy as squad players!!
ReplyDeleteThe CL argument is (IMO) another red herring. LFC signed Luis Suarez without CL football; Coutinho also, and Sturridge.
ReplyDeleteEven with everything you describe, if Rodgers gets it wrong this summer, the same old excuses will be wheeled out.
LFC may not be the CL, but that doesn't mean Rodgers' gets a pass for his transfer business so far.
Yes but we didn't face competition from sides in the champions league for those players. The players mentioned above signed for teams or remained at champions league teams. It's not a red herring, it makes a difference. I expect us to sign Lallana, is he good enough?
ReplyDeleteIt's a balancing act, which involves buying the right mix of players, at the right age. This season, I've mainly made the 'unhappy as a squad player' argument about Ilori, Sakho, and Aspas.
ReplyDelete* LFC didn't need to sign three central defenders. With a reduced number of games due to no European competition (and with Agger/Skrtel already at the club) bringing in 3 was a massive mistake, as it meant unfair competition (which ultimately led to Ilori being shipped out).
* Sakho lost his place at PSG, and part of the reason he moved (even if he won't admit it) is to get games ahead of the world cup. Obviously, if he's then not playing regularly, he'll obviously be unhappy as a squad player.
* IMO, BR should've saved the £18m on Sakho, brought in Ilori and Toure, and just played Ilori, instead of sending him on loan.
* Re Aspas: Again, given the reduced number of games - and the presence of SAS - it was a mistake to bring in a striker in the prime of his career. Any striker who's 27, and has the slightest ambition, will want to play regularly. Aspas hasn't, and he's complained about that, which shows he's unhappy as a squad player. IMO, LFC should've bought a striker in the 18-21 range; someone hungry to learn, and with no expectation of playing regularly.
Some people might trot out the same old arguments, but not me...I've been saying this same thing for awhile. Suarez we were very fortunate to get when we did, though I'm not sure what kind of rival interest was present, Coutinho and Sturridge were both warming the bench at their respective clubs without really generating interest from clubs better than us. We didn't get Mkhitaryan because he chose the CL runner up over us, and we didn't get Willian bc he chose Chelsea over us...these aren't things that can be prevented. He certainly doesn't get a pass, I agree that there are flops, though not as many as you contend, but he has had to make do with the circumstances. Owners not stumping up the cash (e.g. Salah) and players not choosing us therefore he had to go to secondary or even tertiary targets. The transfer market isn't FIFA manager mode, there are a lot of factors. If he does poorly this summer I'll be right there with you saying he's a failure in the transfer market....but when we judge how he does in the transfer market, let's judge it properly. You have to judge a manager's buy on how the player he buys played right up to the moment we buy him, not how he plays for us...hindsight is 20/20, you can't predict everything. If Rodgers goes out there and buys, for the sake of argument, Franck Ribery, and he flops at Liverpool, we can't call Rodgers a fool. This is something I'd like to see you consider when you write about his performance in the market. Alberto was excellent at Barca B last season, Aspas had a very solid year with Celta, Moses scored like 15 or something in all comps and Mignolet was very good for Sunderland. As I said, hindsight is 20/20...when we evaluate Rodgers in the market let's evaluate him based on the players record up to the time of purchase. Should Real Madrid have bought Kaka? Absolutely. Did it work out? Nope. Does that make the people who decided to buy Kaka idiots? I don't think so...
ReplyDeleteI don't see how your point is relevant. CL teams can only sign a finite number of players. There are dozens of top players over the years who signed for teams outside the CL. Not every good player gets poached by a CL team.
ReplyDeleteAs for Lallana - whether he's good enough remains to be seen. He's good for Southampton, but that doesn't mean he'll be a star for LFC. He's a big fish in a comparatively small pond there; Liverpool is different, as many players have discovered over the years.
Two years ago, Lallana was playing in the Championship; his goals/assist record is not that great (IMO), and £20m is overpriced. He's English, though, so that goes with the territory.
If LFC sign him, I'll be cautiously optimistic, but he'll have to deliver.
I agree. Simple fact of the matter is, no other clubs came in for Suarez at the time. Had it been the summer window we might have had some competition from CL clubs and we would certainly have missed out. Suarez didn't sign for Liverpool because it was his life long dream to play here. He wanted to move to a bigger league and he wanted it the summer before he signed for us. That didn't come off but when we came knocking, he forced his way out. On the other hand, Rodgers has also said he would't spend money for the sake of it and every transfer bar Allen, Coutinho and Sturridge goes directly against that. He bought Aspas, Alberto, Sakho and Ilori to get in bodies but there is nothing to suggest that Sinclair, Ibe, Suso and Lloyd Jones would not have had the exact same impact. For free. The one thing that gives me some comfort is that we were also in for Mkitharyan, Costa and Willian so if that's the calibre we go for this summer I'm sure we're in a better position to close the deal and get the players we really need.
ReplyDeleteI'm not positive on Lallana either...I think he'd add quality but the price is high. But you've got to look deeper than simple goals and assists. A player will score more goals and provide more assists when there is more quality around him. Look at his chance creation, watch him play and see how consistently good he is on the ball. Goals and assists is just surface, Coutinho and Sturridge didn't look too great on paper and look how they turned out.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you say about Lallana, he will improve the squad but I'm not convinced he would improve our best starting 11. With regards the other point it's more that I expect us to have more success with our targets now champions league is on offer.
ReplyDeleteGenerally, you're probably right, but what you've outlined here didn't apply to Henderson, or Allen, so who's to say Lallana will be any different.
ReplyDeleteHendo's assist record is atrocious. Since arriving, it's 1 every 8 games, and he often has long barren spells without creating goals. Allen is even worse. Both are playing in better teams, with better players, but it hasn't made them create more often.
Chance creation is a nice stat, but it doesn't win titles.
True, although I don't know Allen's record at Swansea. Henderson though...he was out on the right wing as often as not at Sunderland, and he is an excellent crosser of the ball...easier to get assists out there in that team than as a midfield engine like he is with us. He certainly should have better stats with us, but it hasn't prevented him from being a very important cog in our machine. And Allen's role is more about ball retention and breaking up play in midfield...whether anyone likes that role or not is irrelevant, he's out there doing what he's supposed to do (and he finally got a goal!), while at Swansea his ability was relied on more as a creator and passer because that's where they needed him, much like Alaba playing CAM with his national team and LB with Bayern. He has a different role with us bc we have Gerrard, Coutinho, Sterling, etc. to fill that role. All stats are nice, and none of them tell the whole story one way or the other. And of course not everyone will follow the pattern.
ReplyDeleteDzeko was third choice for city at one point and now he's got them back to first but by your rationale City have too many top strikers! You also brought Joe Allen into the equation. He's been needed and we definitely wouldn't be where we are now without the strength in depth in central defence, they have all been needed. I agree Alberto seems a waste but it was the right thing to do buying Illori now before his value increases.
ReplyDeleteNo. City are in the CL; Liverpool are not. That's the difference.
ReplyDeleteSent from Samsung Mobile
So how are we supposed to have had players who can make a difference coming off the bench if you consider city's options only necessary if you are in the champions league? this is my point you either settle for Moses, aspas standard or have better but accept they will be more difficult to keep happy without a guaranteed start
ReplyDeleteHow I wish Carra had played one more year. He would have made a huge difference.
ReplyDeleteTrue so true,B.R has made some bad decisions with his signings.
ReplyDeleteHopefully he's realised this and will correct his mistakes next season.
How can players be adjudged for their player qualities, while sitting on the bench? Playing little, or not at all, would hardly lend itself to league-adjustment or confidence-building; both essential elements to the debate about Rodgers' player selection qualities. Both elements being attended to by both Rodgers and, of course, the player himself. Playing time has no doubt lent itself well to the development of the likes of Henderson, Flanagan, and the seemingly irrepressible Sterling.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, your argument regarding Rodgers' waste of money is akin to saying that an aeroplane designed to fly form point A to B is a waste of money while it's still in its testing stage over significantly shorter distances. Full merit, or otherwise, of a player must be adjudged only once he has been given the 'reasonable' chance to stretch himself out.
However, a more than decent first XI and a relatively lean and narrow trophy pursuit would only require a focus on the playing field, rather than the bench, should judgement of Rodgers player choices be required. After all winning the title is all that matters and look how close LFC are to doing just that. And if LFC don't win it, how much money would it have had to spend, to snatch it from the most expensive side in world sport history, in Manc?
Yes Jaimie, on the odd occasion, we did land a great target without CL football. But also don't forget that Coutinho and Sturridge were looking to revitalise their careers. This was somewhat a last chance for Sturridge. Exception to rule Jaimie, exception to rule.
ReplyDeleteFor a start, I would say things could have worked out better; but hindsight is a wonderful thing and it easier to over analyse mistakes than see the positives. The simple truth of the matter is name me one manager who has made cast iron successful signings every step of their appointment and I would say your a liar.
ReplyDeleteSome of Rodgers signings have been speculative - trying to unearth a hidden gem - with Alberto or Aspas. On the one hand I would agree that these don't appear to have worked out especially well, but had one of them developed into a Coutinho we might all be hailing Rodgers a genius in the transfer market.
What I think would be much fairer, as you appear to be laying down the gauntlet, is for you to state categorically yourself and have a voting facility on every single signing we make from now on in this window and all future windows. You could also work out a stat system against transfer fee and wage to see who represents good value; that way we'll all get to see how clever you are Jaimie. Seems fair? I think so. It will also eliminate the need for finger pointing which, let's face it, is easier retrospectively.
You're right, and the facts do speak for themselves. But the percentage of players that are successful at new clubs is much lower than 50%. I can't recall the figure, but remember Paul Tomkins writing about it.
ReplyDeleteSome played become outstanding successes, others partial success, and others prove to be flops. The amount of money a manager can spend can improve the odds. That is, if he can buy £20+ million players he has a better chance of getting a success. Players under £10 million are 50/50 to come out good.
There is no question BR could have done better, and no doubt that he has to get it right if we want to push on. With supposedly better money on hand, I'm hoping he will.
Under Rodgers
ReplyDeletePlayers out
Danny Wilson, Peter Gulasci, Andrew Carrol, Jonjo Shelvey,
Stewart Downing, Jay Spearing, Dani Pacheco, Adam Morgan,
Dirk Kuyt, David Amoo, Stephen, Darby, Fabio Aurelio, Maxi Rodríguez
Alberto Aquilani, Craig Bellamy, Charlie Adam, Nathan, Ecclestone,
Joe Cole, Doni
Players in
Luis Alberto, Iago Aspas ,Kolo Toure, Simon Mignoley, Tiago Ilori, Mamadou Sakho, Fabio Borini, Joe Allen, Oussama Assaidi,
Samed Yesil, Daniel Sturridge, Philippe Coutinho
Could we have a vote on whether one would prefer players out
or players in?
Southampton managed to sign Dejan Lovren for £8.5m...Remy would have been available for similar money from QPR...it's possible to buy good quality of squad players without CL...the challenge is buying CL class players - like Hummels, Reus, Costa, Rakitic etc
ReplyDeleteMost of Tottenhams's signings looked good on paper...players like Lamela, Ericson, Paulinho, Saldado & Capoue were players who, at the time, seemed like they were going to turn them into serious title challengers and cement CL qualification for the next few years...
ReplyDeleteThere are no guarantees that if you spend big money on established stars that they will be a success - all you can do is hope that they adapt
That's what the Christmas break is for, to beat up on family members you hardly see.
ReplyDeleteLucas was an attacking players who adapted to becoming one if the best holding players in Europe - the problem he had at the moment (apart from injuries) is Gerrard is now playing his role - thus requiring Lucas to play further forward - he doesn't have the pace or mobility for the expansive role..Lucas relies on his positioning & reading of the game and breaks up play fantastically well
ReplyDeletePlayers in all day
ReplyDeleteJK is a d&ck!!!
ReplyDeleteMaxi was a mistake we could have used him this year
ReplyDeleteIt is simple. Out or in?
ReplyDeleteDoncha wish Carra had played one more year. Can't help thinking we would have won the league if he was in the team this season.
ReplyDeleteNice try at spinning the facts Logan, but the players he brought in haven't been good enough, regardless of the quality of players who have left. In saying all this, the way JK harps on and on and on about it in nearly every article is getting annoying.
ReplyDeleteI am not spinning any facts. Would you prefer to have the player in our squad that have left the club since Rodgers became manager or would you prefer the players that have come in to be in the squad?
ReplyDeleteYou're trying to cleverly paint Rodgers' overall transfer business so far as an overwhelming success by using shit, underwhelming players who have been here in the past as a yard stick.
ReplyDeleteThat is not what i am trying to do.
ReplyDeleteLet me ask you in a different way. Would you prefer to have the players at your disposal that have left the club or would you rather have the players at your disposal that have joined the club?
The players who joined obviously, but that is absolutely irrelevant right now, especially in the context of this article. Just because I prefer the overall players who joined, it doesn't mean they impress me. You're just trying to create more conflict with JK because you know he will absolutely attack this post.
ReplyDeleteI want to know the players Rafa bought in 2009? Who were the flops?
ReplyDeleteBut we are here to create debate are we not and we all have our own opinions don't we?
ReplyDeleteWhat makes the players that have joined irrelevant?
ReplyDeleteI just don't the point you're trying to put out in that post?!
ReplyDeleteTwisting words again. You do it with JK, now you've done it with me.
ReplyDeleteThe article discusses Rodgers and his performance in the transfer window.
ReplyDeleteI have asked whether one would prefer the players Rodgers signed or let go of. Players sold also for of the transfer business!.
I don't mind BR wasting more money again as long as we are challenging for the title.
ReplyDeleteYou're saying I said that the players who joined are are irrelevant. No, I did not say that Logan, otherwise I would have stated, "*they* are irrelevant right now". You sound like you're trying to compare 'players gone' to 'players in' as a justification for why he was successful in the transfer window.
ReplyDeleteSuarez could have won it if not for getting banned for biting Ivanovic. Shameful.
ReplyDeleteHow can they be irrelevant right now when JK states in this article that that the only two players have been bona-fide success stories? So the other players are excluded. Does that make sense? Hold on, have other players that Rodgers signed not been mentioned in the article and the mention of the 2012 transfer window too?
ReplyDeleteDo you know how to read? Or is it a desperate attempt to twist words again?
ReplyDeleteIt would be a huge mistake for Saurez to go, he will never be loved at Real like ge would be here. At Anfield he could be talked about 30 years later in pubs before games like Kenny and Rush. Do you remeber Luis what a legend. As his face is flown over the kop end. At Real he will be just another player.
ReplyDeleteJamie at least read the guys comment your slating. Head in the sand, not member of family. Your an idiot. He said and I can see it written above your stupid comment " im not saying he's not going" shows that jockInthekop believes there is a possibility but rightly says he might not. I suppose the fact I think he would be stupid to go is also sticking my head in the sand.
ReplyDeleteYou defeat the purpose of debate by demanding a yes or no answer.
ReplyDeleteI'd argue that you rarely have a genuine opinion. All you do is spit out pro Rodgers propaganda. There's no other point to your post.
The players in are better than the players out. However, the players out have contributed to Liverpool as much as Aspas and Alberto have this season.
And also, how is saying, 'no, just say yes or no' creating proper debate?
ReplyDeleteI don't really understand your defensive position on this. Who disagrees that Rodgers hasn't been 100% in the transfer market? On individual players I'll usually argue a few points and I have contrary views to you but of course we could have had players come in and make a bigger impact. Just because someone offers an alternative point of view on a player it doesn't mean they are in denial or unwilling to face the truth. You've created another straw man to have this argument with, seemingly to re-enforce the suggestion that you've been right. I don't see much evidence of anyone else praising Rodgers' transfer dealings and in the vast majority people on this web site agree with you. Worst case is when someone says "they haven't been that bad". It's hardly the case that you've had to shout your unpopular message over a chorus of dissent, you just seem to take some people's responses far too seriously.
ReplyDeleteIt's not a case of whether people 'prefer' the players out over the players in. With very few exceptions, Rodgers has replaced dross with dross.
ReplyDeletePlus, Shelvey, Downing, Maxi, and Bellamy are much better players to have in the squad than Alberto, Aspas and Moses.
Plus, your intellectual dishonesty is, as usual, blatantly obvious. You deliberately miss out Sahin, Cissokho, Moses, and Yesil from the your 'In' list.
It seems clear that our transfer policy has not been very good recently. What none of us know is how much that has to do with BR. So whilst I agree entirely with the rest of the article I cannot be as certain how much of that is down to BR.
ReplyDeleteThe lack of clarity aout how transfer decisions are made means that he can (perhaps conveniently) allow the impression to stand that others might be more responsible.than him.
If you compared the two squad and said that Rodgers had, on average, improved the side, then it's a fair argument that he's done something right.
ReplyDeleteI am assuming that Jaimie is not talking about me in reference to this article. I have said myself that Aspas, and the loan signings Moses and Sissokho are not up to scratch. I have always argued that Alberto had time on his side but drifting out of the first team squad is ominous. He does seem to have talent but perhaps lacks the mentality. I won't write him off yet just yet though and see what next season has to offer. I am sure he has an assist so despite it being small it is an objective fact that he has contributed something. Pedantic or not the word fact does mean something.
ReplyDeletePersonally and I have argued this many times, believe that the signings of these players was not done at the expense of other players. It seems obvious to me that the persual of more established and more expensive names despite players like Aspas and Alberto already been signed showed that the money was there still but the deals were not done. I don't think squabbles over a few million here and there has been anything to do with a exact pot that had been used up more more accurately that the committee have very rigid values for players that will not go over. Comendable in some ways but has been detrimental to our squad strength.Look at players like Sissokho and Moses. Sissokho at the very least a second choice fall back and Moses must have been what 4th/5th choice? Both signed on loans as (what seems to me) as gap fillers.
I fully agree that this next transfer window has to be better but where Jaimie and I differ somewhat is I believe it is about getting those players (Willian/Costa etc) who will better us instantly in as well as potential players for the future (i.e. Alberto/Ilori). There is no problem buying players who may contribute to the future as long as you get those players who can contribute now. Those players were identified in other windows and if we had have done those deals then I believe we wold not have had what seems to be an endless discussion about wasted money.
I am not sure the tsunami detection metaphor was meant to be hilarious but it was.
I agree with this. I am not wholly convinced the CL was as is a factor as the club being willing to pay the money we needed to to get our main targets. Identifying players was not the worst issue but perhaps whoever decides the limits we will pay for a player. It seems very odd that we would pay £18m for Sakho (who I am a fan of) but not raise the necesary funds for Willian or Salah etc
ReplyDeleteHe does a lot for the team too. He has the kind of closing down and harassing players that would work really well for us. £20m does seem steep tough.
ReplyDeleteYes, i would prefer to have Shelvey, Maxi, Bellamy, and Downing in the squad over Moses, Aspas, Alberto, and Sakho.
ReplyDeleteI'm no fan of Downing, but he would've contributed far more than any of the aforementioned players.
Maxi wanted to go home it was the same with Bellamy (family issues) and Kuyt actual bought himself out of his contract. I would have loved all those players in the team hen Rodgers got in charge and he apparently wanted Maxi and Bellamy to stay.
ReplyDeleteAquilani, and spending so much on Johnson has also always seemed odd. The big Greek was a cult hero but lets be honest he was not very good. But the previous year is littered with bad buys too. Admittedly there was a lot of problems but the Keane fiasco was harmful. Riera? Dossena? one or two good performances between them cannot be said to be good business and when you consider that was a few years ago before the market got even more distorted and accounting for football inflation, they are decent sums.
ReplyDeleteI honestly can't see why people rate Shelvey so highly, it's almost like they only watch the highlights. His all round game is so so frustrating. He mixes natural ability with idiocy it's like he has footballing feet and no football brain. Given a free role and if you play to his strengths he could do well for you probably (as could Adam) but like Adam he will let yo down too often.
ReplyDeleteI oddly started to warm to Downing by the end. It was like he was finally getting it and then we sold him. Obviosly much better for the team than Moses. Maxi and Bellamy wanted to leave and were they either out of contract or close?
It started to seem like I was making excuses there when I only wanted to bang on about Shelvely. I wish Rodgers had played Sahin were he is now playing Gerard. I still can't work out why he didn't.
I think Yesil who was signed at 18/19 and has had loads of injuries is a bit harsh. When was be signed?
the truth be told, Rogers has done poor in his transfers since becoming manager of liverpool. i pray he gets it well this time around otherwise we will risk loosing the whole progress made so far
ReplyDeleteHe has improved the squad, but it doesn't change the fact that players such as Aspas have still been useless. What Logan has been ranting on about has been irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is B Rodgers is repeating the same mistakes that our last 4 previous managers were like in transfer windows.
ReplyDeleteMy point being they brought more average dud players into club than top class quality players. And B Rodgers has been the same out of all his signings: 2 of them have been successful( Coutinho(21) and Sturridge(24), 3 of them have been ok ( Allen(24), Mignolet(25) and Sakho(24). 1 of them has a bright future: Llori(20).
But the rest of them have been abyzmal to say the least.
As i have been saying we have weak squad: we have 13/14 class quality players out of 25 man squad. Same thing P Thompson said earlier on gilette soccer ,it does not need genius to notice that.
B Rodgers needs to start bringing in players better than what we have, not going for players with potential for next 3-5 years we need class quality players who will come and hit ground running straight away.
B Rodgers needs to bring in players so in every position there is class quality competition for their place, so complacency does not kick in.
Mignolet needs class quality competition for his place:
G Johnson needs class quality competition for his place:
Jaimie
ReplyDeleteI have for a long time read your articles and respect your opinions - although not always agreeing.
On this subject "a family club" I like to offer my view.
I am 50 years old, live in Australia and only once seen Liverpool play live. I grew up playing Aussie rules footy and "soccer" was the sport you played if you had a different cultural background.
In 1978 I befriended a young man called Paul Martin a immigrant from Liverpool, Paul's family were mad Liverpool supporters and before I new it so was I. so for the last 36 years Liverpool has been part of my life, the very good and the not so good times. The greats like Kenny, Ray, Stevie, Louie and Robbie and so many more have given me great happiness.
In every day life when you see someone a Liverpool shirt or they have a LFC key ring an instant bond and conversation is sparked due to our mutual love for the club.
Clubs are born from passion, love, struggle, good and bad times just like family,
And just like family, life may scatter you to all parts of the globe but its what's in your heart that matters that make all Liverpool supporters a collective family that rides the wins with such highs and suffer together with lows.
Our song sums up this family "you'll never walk along"
With much respect
GeorgieBoy
At what point of my message did you pick up that I was a Suarez fanatic who can't conceive he might leave? If you read my message I state in it that I wasn't saying he wouldn't leave and that if Madrid come calling he'll find it very difficult to say no. You said he was likely to leave. All I was saying that there is no recent evidence to suggest this and I stand by that
ReplyDeleteHi GeorgieBoy - thanks for your comment. What you've described sounds great, and I'm sure many fans have similar experiences. I'm not suggesting my view is 100% correct; it's just my personal opinion.
ReplyDeleteI would tend to agree that many of Rodgers/ transfer committee signing have been poor but in the case of a few namely Sakho Alberto and Ilori they were part of the rebuilding process i gather needed time.
ReplyDeleteMany seem to forget that at seasons start most of us would have been happy with a distant 4th.
Talk of a title was rare so i gather those signings i mentioned were more of a longer term idea i am certain if they thought we would have gotten this close things may have been different.
Whilst that might be true, when somebody is offering to double your wages and most likely then some, move to you Madrid and give you everything you want then it is very hard to say no.
ReplyDeleteHe is human after all and I doubt anybody here would not move jobs if offered twice the wage, a house of their dreams, and everything else that goes with a move to RL.
I think it's somewhere between what the two of you say. I wouldn't say that Georgie's story, nice as it is, is representative of fan relations at large, but neither would I say your view is a true assessment of the state of things.
ReplyDeleteThe idea of Liverpudlian exceptionalism and moral supremacy over other clubs is misguided and dishonest. The dick measuring that goes on between different sets of fans is a constant source of embarrassment and frustration for me. Liverpool has its own unique culture and value, just as Man United and co do.
Also, the LFC family is not what it used to be.
The moneyfication of football and the persistence of media driven 'narratives' have alienated fans, but I still think it is a tie that binds. The instant bond you have when you meet another LFC fan abroad speaks to this.
very good arguments mate...
ReplyDelete