29 May 2013

'I'm not excited' - LFC hero slams Toure deal. Molby & Thommo disagree. Who's right...?

Liverpool legend Steve Nicol has revealed his reservations about Liverpool FC's signing of former Arsenal and Man City defender Kolo Toure.

Discussing the Reds' first signing of the summer on ESPN last night, Nicol - who won every trophy in the game during his fantastic career at Anfield - revealed mixed feelings about the deal:

"If Liverpool are signing Kolo Toure to play 30-odd games in the Premier League then, I’m sorry, but I’m not excited about the signing"

Reds legends Jan Molby and Phil Thompson are more upbeat about the deal. The Great Dane told the Liverpool Echo:

"I can see the appeal of Toure. He wouldn’t be starting every week but there would still be plenty of games for him to take part in. When Man City signed him, most clubs would have taken him. He’s older now but he still has plenty to offer"

Thommo tweeted:

"Happy with the signing of Kolo Toure. He's of good character, experience and ability. He may only be a back up, but I'm sure he will want to play as much as possible, which is what we want"

If Toure is a back-up player then fair enough, but if Brendan Rodgers sees him as a direct replacement for Jamie Carragher - or even Martin Skrtel - and plans to use him in most games, then I agree with Nicol: it's not an exciting signing.

Toure has great experience, but he's definitely lost a yard of pace, and he isn't imperious in the air, and those are the two main qualities Liverpool clearly need in central defence. It strikes me as a cheapskate move by FSG. I imagine the following scenario:

* Rodgers wanted Ashley Williams (i.e an experienced Premier League defender) but FSG refused to pay £10m for a 28-year old.

* The transfer 'committee' came up with a list of cheap, experienced Premier League defenders.

* Despite his age, FSG signed-off on Toure purely because he's free.

I sincerely doubt that Rodgers has been tracking Toure for months, excitedly waiting for the end of the season so he could snap up a defender who spent most of last season warming the bench. There are, admittedly, benefits to Toure's acquisition:

* Vast experience at the highest level (domestically)
* Huge international experience (103 caps)
* Captained Arsenal and Man City, so he's clearly a leader.
* 2x Premier League winner, so knows what it takes to win the the league.
* Adds quality depth to the squad.

I hope Toure does well, but as a squad player, rather than a regular first-teamer. Having said that, players should be in the team on merit, so if he comes into the first XI and does the business, then there's no reason why he shouldn't stay there.


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107 comments:

  1. liverpool4life56511:36 am, May 29, 2013

    It's a good move, he free, bring experience,has experience of winning things,calm on the ball, also can give our younger players a few pointers. I remember him playing against villa and he was all over beneteke it showed me that Toure has still got it as a defender.

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  2. City fan here - he was excellent in the games he played this season and is a great pro to have around the club. Good move for both parties. The goodwill of City fans (and disappointment) tells its own story.

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  3. Forget stevie nicol he keeps thinking we are still the team he played for all those years..he would only be happy if we sign the likes of falcao isco lewandowski which wont happen..for me this is a good signing for us a very solid back up who can challenge the starters when they begin to faulter

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  4. I don't think you can say anything like "I only want him as a squad player" at the moment.
    Fact is, last year everyone thought Skrtel and Agger would be in the team week in week out, while Carra and Coates were supposed to be squad players.
    But as we have seen, both Coates and Skrtel didn't perform, and we have seen how Carra, an alleged squad player has become a key perfomer(while Coates wasn't even a squad player).


    I support Toure's signing. I want to see how he does at the beggining of the season, and then we can see whether he's up to be in the team regularly, or come in as a squad player.


    It's always the same philosophy IMO - You play well, you keep your place in the team.

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  5. Kolo toure was one of best defenders playing in england during his Arsenaldays.. vast experience. better with foot than skrtel. (who is horrible). not that much slower either. terriffic tackler. not to mention he wont be pushed off the ball, he is very very strong.

    it is true that he might have lost that extra yard of pace. but i still think he is faster player than coates.

    even if we wont sign another defender during summer i sincerely hope he forces skrtel to stay on bench.

    Kolo also adds calmness to our defence. every video you watch of him you can see it plainly. he gets the ball and does this -hands to sides gesture- "dont rush it, i got this" and then the easy pass to side.

    im rooting for three more signings, Papadopoulos, Kucka (has been linked and played a very good season in italy), and Mithkariyan. i generally like players from east europe, they usually got terriffic mix of skill toughness and intelligence in their play.

    no strikers this summer, if luis stays. im willing to give borini another year to establish himself. i still think he will come good.

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  6. I have a feeling he had lined this up jamie, as its happened so fast!

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  7. Ok I'm not a Pool fan but I know my footballing hsitory, WHO the hell is Steve Nicol? I am a Manchester City fan and Kolo Toure is a solid defender and a good veteran footballer at that, he has rarely messed up for City and deserves more respect than this muppet Steve Nicol offers. Definitely as good as Joleon Lescott so in my honest opinion Kolo Toure is a top notch short term replacement for an always over rated Jamie Carragher. He is also in a FREE transfer, City could have easily offered him another two years but, we already have enough senior center backs in Lescott, Kompany and Richards who can cover and it's about youth now at City.


    Now that Liverpool have replaced Carragher with better for the short term for FREE, they can concentrate on younger defender.

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  8. You're correct, he still has a lot to give and is far better than Carragher imo.

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  9. I personally like the idea of getting Toure for free as he is still a good defender. He played well for City when called upon during the season and for me, he is a better reader of the game than Skrtel and stronger on the ball. I think Nicol is missing the point here as well. I don't think we are supposed to be very excited by the siging as he is coming in for a couple of seasons to bring experience to the backline. Now signing a young lad like Papa from Schalke would be seen as an exciting signing as he has a lot of potential and could be at the club for the next 10 years.

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  10. The only thing I disagree with is the view that it's a cheapskate move by FSG.
    To my mind, it releases money to allow us to compete with other clubs for the other players we will need, whilst allowing us to get younger, less experienced players without ignoring the need for leadership and experience. Get Papadopoulous and maybe one other, ideally Alderwiereld, , then we can concentrate on bargains like Diame to allow a top notch player such as Errckson to be afforded.

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  11. Steve Nichol is sooo out of touch and comments and opinions like that show why he's pretty much disappeared from the game. He's clueless. LFC's glory days are long gone. At the moment you're a cup team that is some distance off the top four. Toure is a great signing. He's a winner and like most Blues I know I'm sorry to see him go. He deserves first team football at a proper club and Liverpool fit that bill. He won't let you down. Good luck to him.

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  12. If you agree with Steve Nicol then you're just as much a muppet as he is.

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  13. If you don't know who Steve Nicol is then you clearly *don't" know your footballing history.

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  14. Hit the nail on the head JK, Very happy with him coming in as experienced depth but not as a starter.

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  15. Jamie Carragher overrated? Is this opinion coming from a Gareth Barry fan?

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  16. Borini will be an Anfield legend if he is managed well.

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  17. Jamie you seem to have left out the rest of what Nicol said. The positives of signing Toure :)

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  18. We won't be playing in Euros and if we get eliminated from cup competition early on then we actually wouldn't need many squad player next season. I hope to see Liverpool signing first team regulars to compete for top 4. With less games to play...we can seriously become top 4 contenders by signing 3 quality players

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  19. Did he? Shameful.

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  20. He did ignore it, but Nicol already implied he'd have an opposite view if Toure was signed for utility

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  21. And this makes a difference how...? It makes no difference whatsoever to the quote I've used, which is Nicol's point about using Toure regularly. I don't have to use every part of every quote, and the other part doesn't change the meaning of the section I've used.

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  22. You have overlooked the main reason for his signing which is that he is superb at mentoring kids. aside from his wealth of experience, he will help develop wisdom,Kelly et al.

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  23. Mr. Point Of View12:46 pm, May 29, 2013

    in defense dept i agree exp come 1st. But i personally still cant accept we signing KOLO feel a bit like hmm..uhmm ..if u know what i mean.


    some joker (reading whole section on other comment) said he way better than carra i cant accept that...


    come prove me wrong KOLO....i wish im wrong :)

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  24. We needed to buy experience since Carra retired so this move makes a lot of sense. I don't understand why some fans are against it as this is a player who has vast experience and who is a great defender. We only gave him a 2 year deal so financially it makes sense.


    I believe we will buy 1-2 more defenders. I hope we buy Papa.


    We will/have offload/offloaded a few players: Carroll, Spearing, Pacheco, Wilson. Possibly Assaidi who is still a mystery to me so I am sure BR will buy adequate replacements.


    However please no more Borini's.

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  25. The very fact that you list such a compelling list of positves yet seem negative in tone simply adds to my confusion about your ideas on Liverpool, the future and the present. How can there be negativity about a player that you admit has:

    * Vast experience at the highest level (domestically)
    * Huge international experience (103 caps)
    * Captained Arsenal and Man City, so he's clearly a leader.
    * 2x Premier League winner, so knows what it takes to win the the league.
    * Adds quality depth to the squad.

    Even if he is to take over from an unproven and unconvincing youngster (Coates) or a whinging liability (Skrtel). Free, experienced and good quality - nothing to dislike even if he did play 30 games

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  26. Shame Yaya has just extended his deal, we could have done with him too! Touré signing is an absolute stroke of genius by BR. There aren't many defenders in this league who can bring Carragher's leadership qualities to this squad but not only has he found one, he also gets him on a free! Carra started off last season as backup as well but we all know how that ended. The way I see it, you don't buy players to play second fiddle. You buy them and let them know that if they want to play, they need to be better than the other no matter if they cost 16 million or you got them on a free. Genius I say!

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  27. Jeez, what is it with people? Seems to me that so many people have such inflexible mindsets that when others advance opinions in a way that differs from the 'fan template' in their minds, there must be something negative.

    I've looked at both sides: positive and negative. Is that so hard to understand?! Must everything always be one or the other?

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  28. Well i would rather the club spend on top talent and since there isnt a lot of money i consider Toure a great get he adds that experience and frees up funds to compete for top talent.,
    The other plus to this is the club probably wont be wasting 10 mill pounds on Williams.

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  29. I can only assume you're one of the new (post lottery win) Man City fans if you don't know who Steve Nicol is. Maybe you were into rugby, basketball or some other sport, other than football, before you became a glory supporter.

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  30. Actually when Nicol played, English game was a bit different. Most of the players were British, so were the Managers & style, which was hoof-ball on a wet summer & heavy field. So, instead of Falco, Isco, Lewandowski or Kolo, Nicol must have thought of Ashley William, Showcross or even Pearce.

    With due respect, though Cara was a wonderful LFC player for his commitment & passion for the Red Shirt, but to be honest, he was quite an ordinary CB. Even at his peak, he was at best only 5th choice in a very average English side (after Terry, Ferdinand, Camble & King) & rightly so. Kolo is a fantastic CB, still much quicker than what Carra had ever been, very good reader of the game, clean tackler & brilliant in the air. ManCity is allowing him to leave for the fun of their good fortune. Without the spoiled money to waste, they won't have got him from Arsenal & won't have let him go for free.

    May not be every week, but in alternate weeks, Kolo 'll be the best CB in LFC, including Agger & Skartel. With Kolo there, I can bet we 'll concede less from set pieces or aerial balls. Good luck to him.

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  31. So...not an exciting signing, but there are positives and negatives, maybe a squad player, maybe disappointing first team player. If, but, maybe. No real informed opinion on the player's ability in the blog, but seemingly a chance to snipe at FSG well taken. Congrats!
    For the record his experience could prove incredibly important, and if his presence hastens the exit for Skrtel then all the better. Having a shaved head doesn't make you an old school defender, nor does it make you skilful, so ta ta to him. The team needs winners - people who have actually crossed the finish line in a competition and came out on top. This could bode well....

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  32. As a squad player, he is good to have but as a regular first XI player, no, not anymore. Plenty of time left till September for us to get another CB, so I'm relatively confident we will be bringing in another. His experience is good to have but I don't think he will ever be good enough again to be a top 4 regular CB. If we're destined to be a non-top 4 side for another few years, than it is something we may have to put up with and eventually have to be pleased with.

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  33. No, you clearly can't comprehend simple written english. Stop sniping about the post and stick to giving your views on the issues raised. Any further sniping posts will be deleted.

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  34. Of course he's a squad player. We're likely going to let Coates go so we need some depth in the position. Good work from the transfer 'committee' (why does that need to be in quotes?) to spot the opportunity. This is a good signing and should have little to no bearing on other targets we're lining up.

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  35. Being a replacement for Carragher would mean being a squad player. Agger and Skrtel were the first choice pairing, but it just took a while for Rodgers to realize just how over-rated Skrtel is and get him out of the team.

    I would've been happy to have Kelly, Coates, Wisdom etc take Skrtel/Carrgher's place as 3rd choice CBs next year tbh. Toure is an improvement over Skrtel & Coates as 3rd choice CB though, and on a free would leave us massively in the black financially too, so the transfer does have some positives.


    We still need a new starting CB though.

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  36. How much is Kolo getting paid per week and signing on fee?

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  37. I'm not saying I support this idea, but has anyone ever considered Carroll as a possible defender?

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  38. I actually don't support this idea, just seen it chucked around here and there

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  39. Tbh I don't really bother reading transfer pages anymore so I wouldn't have a clue what is rumored to be the financial packages for any of our prospective signings...

    You'd expect Toure's wages as a backup player to be capped at about £45-50k p/w though right? which is about half of what Carragher was pulling in, and far less than Skrtel was getting last year too...

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  40. If he's played most of his life as a striker he'd have none of the positional instincts of a good defender. Sure, he's good at getting his head to the ball, but that's basically his only good defensive quality.

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  41. Not sure what to expect as I can't imagine him dropping down too much from the wages he was paid at City to come to us unless he is getting a nice signing on fee.


    Skrtel is apparently on £70k, after signing an extension last summer. I think around £50k is probably what he is getting plus a signing on fee, that combined would me thinks get him to around what Carra was pulling in annually. I don't think he will be much cheaper to run financially than Carra (when including Toure's potential signing on fee). But of course, I'm just massively speculating.

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  42. well he used to play at left back but that was many years ago.

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  43. I agree with Nicol here. A very good center back at his best but he was past that before he even left Arsenal - I still remember thinking how awful he was in the 4-4 against them. Definitely won't be the standard required if we want to get top four, or better and I'm not sure it works fully as an "experienced head" replacement for Carragher either - the guy's not a natural defender and always panicks so it's doubtful he'll be giving our youngsters the right advice.


    After the last window BR deserves a bit of patience so I'm going to trust him to bring in a better centre back in to partner Agger, so I'll reserve judgement and consider it a fourth choice cover, I just hope he''ll be on significantly less that he was at city.

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  44. toure,and the lad from reading in carragher and skrtal out,and i do not think we will see a great deal more defence activity,infact i predict a very quite summer unless players are sold fsg are not going to give rodgers much to spend 20 million max,and even if rodgers sells players i doubt he will get to spend all the money he genarates

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  45. liverpool4life5652:17 pm, May 29, 2013

    We are close to signing papadopoulous we are not going after the reading CB. Also it be more than 20 million they always gave us 30 million to spend plus player sales

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  46. Schalke are going to sign centre back Santana from Dortmund for next season. So maybe a good indicator for Papa leaving.

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  47. Question: Has Steve Nicol ever got anything positive to say? For christ's sake, we've just announced the acquisition of a proven prem player, who won the PL last year, has experience where we need it, leadership skills, and the respect of players who will play with and against him. Short term - maybe so; but plenty of fans are screaming blue murder when we buy youngsters for future development.

    Sick of the negativity...

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  48. Good back up, but not a first team regular I don't think. Unless he proves otherwise.

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  49. billy if your happy with this kind of signing fair play to you,maybe the negativity will stop when fsg pull there finger out and show some posotive signs that they are going to sig players that give us a fighting chance of getting back to the top(or at least still having something to fight for come the end of january)

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  50. I am happy with it, and am not ashamed to say it! The last thing we want to do is waste big money on players who turn out to be gash - we've made that mistake under KK, and FSG are not about to do it again - and who can blame them? I personally see the situation as a far longer term project than "getting in the top 4 next year". Let's build slowly and sensibly.

    Out of interest, how did you feel when we signed Gary Mac all them donkeys ago?

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  51. If you say so...

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  52. liverpool4life5653:22 pm, May 29, 2013

    FSG have gave us a chance,they give us funds we spend. I rather spend sensible than do a Chelsea or man city. It wasn't FSG fault KK spent money on rubbish. They learned now Rodgers is bringing in good players who will help us progress

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  53. I LOVE Carra - has been my idol for 10 years. But Kolo was, is and always will be better. The truth hurts me too, mate :-(

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  54. A good signing as a squad player. I can't think of another defender with his experience we could have got on a free transfer.

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  55. Totally right. They are business men; they provided KK with a fat wad, he spunked it - and it backfired. As businessmen, who can blame them for not wanting to do that again?

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  56. Free transfer, yes. But his wages are rumoured to be around 75k.. So theoretically it is equivalent to 2.3m pound transfer with 30k wages for the 32 yr old.. Seems good business to me.

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  57. liverpool4life5653:57 pm, May 29, 2013

    FSG haven't done nothing wrong, they give us funds we can't ask for anything more, they've made progress on the stadium, they are increasing our revenue.im happy there our owners,

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  58. liverpool4life5653:58 pm, May 29, 2013

    Agree, totally they will start to trust Rodgers in the market he done quiet well

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  59. liverpool4life5654:17 pm, May 29, 2013

    Martinez over Rodgers?

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  60. yes he build the swasea team not rodgers laudrop as made them better rodgers is a lucky man

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  61. Good chance he will also have been given a signing on fee too, especially a considerable one as its a 'free' transfer.

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  62. 12M for Williams or Kolo Toure for free ?? Anyone would see the better option not only FSG. And I don't believe at all that BR wanted Williams instead. This move is very sensible and saves money for better players.

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  63. liverpool4life5654:38 pm, May 29, 2013

    No he laid the foundation, then de Sousa came in he done alittle, then rodgers took them to the prem and had a good season, Martinez hasn't done anything, he been at Wigan for ages and he stayed above the drop zone and this season got them relegated.im glad we went for Rodgers.

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  64. trust him don,t make me laugh they have just took the power of transfers away from him lol

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  65. wigan spend very little money they play decent football he kept them up and got them to the fa cup final

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  66. liverpool4life5654:41 pm, May 29, 2013

    Not really.... FSG just give the funds.

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  67. liverpool4life5654:42 pm, May 29, 2013

    Jason also this season Swansea finished 1 point worse off than last season, so you was wrong again, Rodgers was a better manager....and Swansea pay little money to yet Rodgers still got a good finish last season....

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  68. I just don't get why journalists often quote people put only quote part of what their saying which can give it a totally different meaning.

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  69. It doesn't give it a different meaning! That's the point. Just because Nicol said that Toure would bring experience to the squad doesn't change that he thinks it's the wrong decision to use him as a regular starter. They are two separate, self-contained opinions.

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  70. they qualified for europe m8 through a cup run there biggest achievment in there history lol

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  71. liverpool4life5655:10 pm, May 29, 2013

    Through a cup, it's a good achievement for them but for us we need CL not Europa through carling cup or FA cup....

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  72. When Kompany got injured last season Toure stood in for him and in my opinion he still looked a very good defender. I think this will prove to be a very good signing for us.

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  73. Im not too sure about this move but il see how his performances go in a red shirt. He's 32 but i just dont think he has the commanding presence Jamie had in defense when it comes to organisation. But im sure Kolo will have plenty of games in cup runs and other competitions

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  74. liverpool4life5655:54 pm, May 29, 2013

    That's okay with me. Rather concentrate on PL

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  75. why we will not get top four next year so we might as well have europa league

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  76. liverpool4life5656:05 pm, May 29, 2013

    Erm matter of fact is we will start the season better, coutinho full season with us, Sturridge full season with us. New players coming in we can have a good crack at top 4.

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  77. not going to happen unless we get major signings this summer and imo we will not

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  78. liverpool4life5656:19 pm, May 29, 2013

    We've just signed another forward, it will be confirmed shortly iago aspas! Good striker! :)

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  79. Mike Aitcheson6:20 pm, May 29, 2013

    Another signing on the way,

    Aspas: forward that can play wide and striker.Fast running with ball,great finisher.1 of top youngstairs in Spain. And soon will b confirmed

    £9m for one of Spain's best regarded youngsters.

    So much for Toure setting the tone...

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  80. Good Debate guys! Very insightful, this is where LFC fans are right now. Some people think we should keep spending like we have no sense and others are willing to spend wisely and take time to progress. Whatever your opinion I think we call agree that we both want what's best for LFC! Well JC start eating those Humbling Pie cause FSG are spending, not like the Russians or the Middle east folks but they are buying early!!

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  81. another young potential player the proof will be in the pudding ,this could be suarezs replacment lol

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  82. You are right.

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  83. Another young potential player like Sturridge and Coutinho? And we all know how that turned out!

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  84. As I have said in other posts, the genuis or madness of this signing will all depend on who else comes in. We get Papa too then imo its a spot on signing. Great experience and perfect to fill any gaps which may come up, yet not likely to kick up a massive fuss if he dont play every game. I can`t ever see a situation where you would sign two top players for one position in the same season. Just doesn`t make sense for the players signing on, therefore the other player signed has to be a cheaper deal. Toure is just that.

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  85. Toure is a smart investment. He'll be eager to show that he's not finished, but we all accept he's no Vincent Kompany. Whilst he may had lost a yard of pace, it still means he's got two more yards than Carra had. His positioning is good as well as his decision making. If he helps to shore up the back line and allows a little more confidence in the midfield to push forward, we might be able to switch a few of these draws into win and climb a couple of places up the league.

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  86. surprise surprise,nicol has another swipe at liverpool.him and lawrenson should start a man ure supporters club.

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  87. I think as a squad player he is a nice option. I very much doubt that he will be first choice.
    I'm hoping I'm not being too optimistic.

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  88. Boo, far better than Cara! Go home!

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  89. Liverpool have received consent to speak to Papa, from Schalke.
    By talks, I presume meaning getting the deal done.
    Source: sportinglife.com. owned by Sky, and I find the most reliable of sources.

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  90. I see this as a back up choice for Agger given his proneness to injury. Another solid experienced "bring the ball out of defence" central back

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  91. Great buy. Experience is always needed and with cara gone kolo brings it. I see nothing wrong with his signing and if he plays well ten he can stay in the team. He doesn't have to be a bench warmer. Only time will tell. Come the end of next season we may be singing his praises. Look at desaiiley at Everton. Never let them down.

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  92. Still, the CTC(Cost to Club) would be less than a normal transfer based on his MV right?

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  93. Add a £1m-£3m worth of signing on fees for e.g.. It isn't that great a deal. Say £4m in total for example. £4m & 30k for a 32 year old who has been up-and-down in terms of form, hasn't been near his peak form for 2/3 seasons and clearly not the player he was at Arsenal. I don't see it as expensive but I don't see it as a good deal either. A so-so deal.

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  94. I don't think an over rated Player could be regarded as a Liverpool Legend..Do you really know and understand What is Liverpool Football Club? He won the CL and could have won it a 2nd time..This is the biggest club Competition in Europe. They might not be Up there now but we should all understand and respect the traditional Football clubs that has made the game what it is today, So we can all Enjoy the beautiful game!

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  95. NonEventHorizon6:55 am, May 30, 2013

    It's not something they've just done, he's always worked under that system at LFC. And really what's wrong with that system? I'd rather have a team of people do the donkey work on transfers for months before either window opens so BR can concentrate on the actual team and the weekly games they play.

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  96. wow talk about cherry pick what about the summer signings

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  97. who cares how comes no other big club wants him

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  98. sorry m8 when rodgers signed he said he only signed if he had total control of transfers

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  99. Gary Sanderson9:17 am, May 30, 2013

    I am really happy with Toure being our first signing of the summer, I agree with all of the positive points listed above in the article, I love that we have moved swiftly, great signing!

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  100. If Toure trains and plays better than any of the other defenders then what is there to complain about? "I hope he is a back up" Why? I hope he plays to the best of his ability and if that means he displaces Agger or Skrtel then so be it.

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  101. Steve Nicol is a nobody, you're all Liverpool fans so your bound to know the nobodies in your clubs history, every club has nobodies that run their mouthes off. Too defend a nobody is just idiotic and plain dumb, those who haven't got the balls to say so and are deluded into thinking everyone that played for their club was the dogs balls is an idiot.


    For instance Joey Barton is a nobody toss pot who runs their mouth off just like the toss pot Steve Nicol. BTW I'm a City fan born in 1975, so to question me makes you a moronic toss pot too.

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  102. Lol wake up you moron, born in 1975 and born a blue.Have to be an idiot to brand me a glory hunter when you don't even freaking know me.

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  103. Next you will be claiming Steve Nicol was one of the best players in the world just because he played for Liverpool.


    shhhhh muppets.

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  104. Jog on Mod, couldn't care less about your poxy scouse site anyway, I've said my piece!

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  105. How come you don't believe FSG will give more than £20 mill when they gave Dalglish over £100 mill to spend while he was in charge ??

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  106. they had just become owners and they sold torres it was not 100 million

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