4/13/2013 09:14:00 pm

You're Wrong: LFC hero accuses BR of sabotaging LFC. Harsh or fair...?

Liverpool legend Dietmar Hamann has accused Brendan Rodgers of (indirectly) sabotaging the Reds Premier League run by claiming that missing out on the Europa League this season could actually be a good thing for the club.

Speaking to the Telegraph earlier this week, Rodgers argued that a season free of European football would give Liverpool 'a greater chance of finishing in a much higher position in the league', adding:

"It won't be the end of the world if we don't qualify for Europe.

"It [missing out] would help us compete for the top four and allow us to have a real strong run at the league next year"


After Liverpool's failure to beat bottom-club Reading in the Premier League today - an unacceptable result, irrespective of what Rodgers says - Hamann observed:

"I'm not sure whether it was a good move by Brendan Rodgers to say missing out on the Europa League would be blessing in disguise, as it gives players excuses"

On a psychological level, I think Didi is right here. If missing out on the Europa League is fine with the manager, then what are the players fighting for? The Champions League is gone; cups were off the table months ago, and if the Europa League doesn't matter, then the team has, basically, done its job for the season (!)

Liverpool's players are paid obscene amounts of money to give 100% every game, but they're only human, and Rodgers comments could have a subconscious impact on some players, and I think we've seen that over the last few games.

Having said, I personally agree with the manager: in theory, being out of Europe next year could be a good thing for the club, but it's (arguably) inadvisable for him to say such things in public, or to the players in private.

The Reds may only be fighting to overhaul Everton in the table now, but the message must surely remain the same at all times: fight and compete until the final kick of the final game of the season.

Hamann may not like Rodgers' comments, but Liverpool legend Steve Nicol agrees with the manager. He told Talksport:

“If they [Liverpool] don’t get into the Europa League next season it will be the best thing for them. They need to concentrate in the league"

Will being out of the Europa League really help Liverpool do better in the league? There is an (admittedly tenuous) historical precedent to suggest that being out of Europe can be a positive thing for LFC:

* 1998-99: Finished 7th, which meant no Europe in the 1999-00 season.
* 1999-00: LFC finished 4th, a 10 point improvement on the previous season.
* 2000-01: The Reds went on to win the UEFA Cup, and qualify for the CL.

* 2001-02: LFC competed in the CL, and but for one of the worst managerial decisions in football history* (Houllier replacing Hamann with Smicer against Bayer Leverkusen in the Quarter final), Liverpool would've made the semi-finals.

So, if history repeats itself, Liverpool will finish 4th next season, and make it into the Champions League. What do you think: possible, or wishful thinking?

* This may be an exaggeration



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129 Comments :

liverpool4life565 said...

It would be beneficial not being in Europa, because our fixtures won't stack too much up, also would be advantage over other teams, so BR won't have any excuses next year...

Chirag Vyas said...

We were not in Europe last season, finished 8th

Mitch said...

I'm not a rodgers fan he's all talk

philip dean said...

Usual rhetoric expected for BR. lower expectations. In contrast look at Benitez comments the other day when he was labelled as concentrating on cups instead of the league and he firmly stated he wants to win everything!!! to be fair, Benitez will no doubt win the Europa cup and probably the FA Cup and will no doubt cement CL place. people have often said they do not want to be like Chelsea but, to be honest why not?? at least they are winning stuff. the best thing Liverpool can do is poach the next potential real Madrid manager, yes real Madrid not Swansea not wigan but real Madrid we have an opportunity to get in a manager who will probably go to real Madrid but could definitely have his head swayed to stay at home. If he does win the Europa cup and FA Cup, he will bring re-newed credibility and unlike BR his win ratio is always above 50% and not 40%. The owners need someone to put this into perspective, its like getting the potential new York yankies manager for a mid table run of the mill league club which is what exactly we have turned into, we may have history but if you regard everton as a mid table ok club, just remember we are behind them. even in benitez last season we would of never regarded ourselves as this, it would of been regarded as a bad little run but that run has extended into us being a joke and having a manager who states Europe is not important to Liverpool when Europe is what put Liverpool on the map!!!! BR must go and go now, had enough!!!Under Benitez we were ranked the no1 team in europe, under BR europe does not matter, BR out now!!!!

Jaimie K said...

Good point :-)

Dan62 said...

yes we were also in the midst of rebuilding a team from the bottom up with very little competition for places on the bench

paulo said...

rodgers wants to make everyone believe that he got a very poor team and i cant understand how so many of us are believing him! last season we were better.. went to wembley twice and if we were not so unlucky we would have been in cl as well. the guy should be sacked!

Dan62 said...

It will help but only if we build the squad with at least 3 or 4 more experienced players, but top 4, I don't think so, not for two more seasons. As you know FFP rules were voted in by the managers a few days ago and it will helps us more than anything else in the long term. FSG are committed to bringing players up through the youth system this will pay dividends, but like I said not for two seasons

Mitzsu said...

I think its true to say that the players do not seem to be motivated enough, if that is down to BR and his seemingly laissez-faire attitude then it needs to be addressed, one cannot be sure that it is the case but the evidence is very much against Rodger's atm, i cannot see things changing either & if he stays for another season i think we will lose Suarez and probably a few other quality players.



In fact i am sure of it, there is no way on earth a player of Suarez's calibre will hang around if he knows that BR will be manager next season, either we brace ourselves for an exodus of quality players and trust that BR will replace with like for like....OR we give Rodgers the golden handshake & get a well respected top flight manager in quick time..;..


I think FSG will not be happy with how this season has panned out, you could argue that it is their fault but they have given BR their backing and allowed him the time to prove that he can handle the job and bring out the best in our players....


The rest is history....the calls for a return for Rafa will surely become louder & im now of the opinion that ultimately FSG will listen this time round & as much as i loathe the prospect of his return to LFC i do think that our better players would actually want to stay at the Club if Rafa was to return.....


Motivation is a key factor in any highly competitive sport, football managers know that they will be judged by how well motivated the players are....


Kenny had to go because we were not improving, i would much rather he stayed esp after having to endure this season under BR & im not sure that we can afford to wait for another season to see if it will work or not..., too much at stake in terms of players leaving etc.


Big summer awaits methinks.

gilstrap said...

rogers talks about winning mentality ...then suggests it better to be out of a cup...thats hardly a winners mentality...i remember supporting Liverpool when you where gutted if you got beat in any cup competition.....if the players or manager dont want to try and win everything then maybe they are at the wrong club .....what if the fans took that pick your game attitude..or perhaps the club or manager should tell us what games they are or are ot trying to win then we dont need to watch or turn up ...absolute disgrace

gilstrap said...

thats crazy ...by your logic there is no point then in qualifying for the champions leauge because it will affect your ability to qualify for it the year after....HERE IS A FACT EVERYONE TOP TEAMS AND PLAYERS PLAY A LOT OF GAMES AND WIN IF THEY CANT HACK IT F*CK THEM OFF

philip dean said...

question for you liverpool4life565 are you BR???

philip dean said...

Cant wait for sunday, its like looking forward to the game when hodgson was in charge, i only went the game to sing 'HODGSON FOR ENGLAND' Sunday it wil be RAFA RAFAEL RAFA RAFAEL RAFA RAFAEL RAFAEL BENITEZ!! and over and over again!!!

gilstrap said...

So nothing much has changed

liverpool4life565 said...

Our squad isn't good enough or big enough for every cup competition. Look at united,city,Chelsea,spurs,arsenal squads then look at ours, it just isn't big enough, we need more players.

liverpool4life565 said...

Why don't you reply to me then? Not gilstrap?, also no I just know things take time, I ain't going to get on his back and say I want him sacked because I don't :)

gilstrap said...

but you still have to try and win them ...anything else is accepting defeat and second best.....great players become great players by playing in big games like cup finals ..if you dont play in the big games you will never be a great player

liverpool4life565 said...

If I'm perfectly honest I rather get into CL than do well in carling or FA cup, but that's me, everyone has different opinions :)

DerBaumMann said...

i agree with you 99%, would just love to have rafa back...

Hoq said...

The chealsea match is going to be amazing. The hairs on the back of Rafa's neck are going to stand up.

Angelos said...

I don't know what Rodgers says, all I know is that we are 27 points behind Man U (and they have 2 games in hand), that Benitez is challenging two cups and CHL exit (and don't forget that Chelsea is like always playing away from home cause their fans have an open war with Rafa), on loan Carroll is scoring against teams that humiliate us (like Southampton and West Brom), Kuyt is 2 games away from a european cup final and Dalglish played maybe the half of the last year without Lucas, Suarez, Gerrard etc, plus that players like Henderson, Downing and Enrique, was trying to adapt to the team in their first year and now they did it at last! This situation makes me so sad...

Angelos said...

And we are 5 points behind Everton (and they have 1 game in hand as well)

footballwatch said...

A 2nd consecutive frustrating draw this time
against Reading that bring us back to the brutal reality and send a lot of
messages to all of us but especially to FSG.
I just hope decisive decisions will be taken for next season as FSG must
give real hope and prospect to this historic club. If you wish you can watch the game in full
and its highlights on http://www.footballwatch.net/team/37

BEAST said...

No balance in your statement.
The second half of last season we hit relegation form.If we took those results into this season we'd be playing CHAMPIONSHIP football next year.
"If we were not so unlucky we would've been playing CL".Goalkeepers having man of the match performances by having poor shots hit at them and us hitting the bar 30 times is called ret*rded finishing, not being unlucky.What planet are you on we were nowhere near CL last season!

Dan62 said...

True, but it could if we stick with one manager for long enough. I think sacking managers after a shirt time doesn't help as every manager brings his players his philosophy etc. it ends up costing us money and time to rebuild

VermHat said...

I hope to God that Rafa doesn't go to Real, because that is a definite recipe for disaster and I want Rafa to prosper.

I'm convinced he should go to Germany. It is a growth league, and he'd be considered a big coup for a team and as such could probably wrangle a little extra control than most head coaches in Germany.

Steven Sakkas said...

It's ok for anyone to day it might be better with no Euro clashes, but NOT the manager! His management skills in reacting to a game a worst second to none! He should have made more changes to turn the game around!
The last 3 performances have been played at a level of Reading!
Disgraceful!

liverpool4life565 said...

Who would you of brought on??? We didn't have no strikers on the bench, bringing suso,shevley wouldn't of helped either. That's why I always say our squad isn't good enough, we need more attacking players, in the summer that will have to be addressed

Pete said...

Jaimie I am actually quite shocked with your opinion on this one. The name of Liverpool Football Club is synonymous with European football. And if we don't have the ambition to qualify for Europa, that's a mid-low table mentality.

nick1811 said...

Didn't watch the match, and almost threw up at the score. 0-0. How pathetic. You can't go 2 games without scoring a single goal, that is absolutely unacceptable. What is more astounding is that they had TWENTY EIGHT shots, with ELEVEN shots on goal! I don't bloody care how the keeper was, if you play for liverpool, scoring at least two goals from that shot tally is the bare minimum. I really don't know what else to say. If we keep leaning on goal keepers' great performances as excuses, then we'll never get anywhere. It's only Liverpool that likes to blame the keeper, or luck, it seems...

Pete said...

We have done none of those things this season.

DerBaumMann said...

Neither will we next ...

Truth said...

I don't about the this but the inconsistent show from this team won't give me much hope for the season. Unless BR has a plan to change this if not star player will leave and it would be many step backwards

Pclfc8 said...

How can anyone in their RIGHT mind blame Rodgers for this...what else can he do? Had it not been for INDIVIDUAL mistakes/missed chances then wed be at least 2/3 positions higher in the league! How can you possibly blame the manager?

rubyrm said...

We messed up. big time. Buck is as usual shooting his mouth off.
His comments are disgraceful at times.
But sacking him will not be the answer. A major overhaul is due. under performing players should be sold and quality with depth should be brought in.The season is over for us. Enough of football for now. Not going to watch another game until next season.

Gano1 said...

Can't blame BR for a goalie having the game of his life

Jimbob said...

Had we not hit the post or bar 33 times last season and missed 5 or 6 penalties we could have qualified for the champions league, Kenny still got sacked of course you can blame the manager ultimately it's up to him to get the best out of his players. I don't see where we have progressed under Rogers this season, about the same points tally and not challenging for anything mediocrity here we come or even here we are. Those figures are guesstimates by the way but it was still a lot.

Jimbob said...

We're not in Europe at the moment so with no games stacking up we still can't beat Southampton, West Ham, Reading. God forbid we qualify for champions league any time in the future we'd likely be knocked out in the first qualifying leg by Barry Town.

Jimbob said...

And we're no closer this season! Progress?, no cups a few extra points and no plan B, at best were treading water at the moment. Rogers clearly isn't the man to take Liverpool forward. I can't even see how we're supposedly playing better football than last year! I though we played teams of the park last year but couldn't put them to bed and ended up sucker punched in a lot of them, this year a bit more of the same but with a little less fight. It's even embarrassing to watch sometimes and leaves me feeling sad at the direction were currently going.

RennyLFC said...

A week break between games seem to be having a poor effect on the players. They aren't performing up to par. Playing in Europe would do us good. It'd keep us sharp. I want to see us competing in all competitions. Otherwise, what is the point?

Jimbob said...

Where's Dani Pacheco? Awesome in pre season attacking player snubbed by yet another manager! Yesil another young guy but could have done a job, Sinclair is progressing well, Jordan Ibe again playing well, If we're not bothered about qualifying for the Europa then there's a multitude of young attacking players that could have been on the bench and might have relished a run out against Reading. No excuse just because they're young they're still in the squad so we do in fact have plenty of squad players "if they're good enough they're old enough" we'll our first team seen exactly setting the world alight so why not?

Nige said...

Does anyone think the coaching/back room staff could be a factor? I.e the quality of training and what the squad are being taught? We had a really strong back room staff under Rafa. We were a solid unit. Played consistent. Tactics were thorough. We beat teams like Ac Milan, Real Madrid. Now we can't beat Reading, Villa, West Ham etc... Something is missing? Maybe motivation or belief? Too many excuses all season. Although we do play well for the most part, we just don't score enough and consistency has been missing for 2 seasons now. I hope we can get good players in the summer so we have some options/competition within the squad.

Jimbob said...

It is a good point but do you trust BR enough for him to be given the cash to rebuild Liverpool? I'm not saying he should be sacked but there are so many excuses out there as to why he shouldn't be! Rafa inherited a rather shody looking team and won the Champions League with it! As I've posted before I don't think we're progressing under BR more treading water and those of us who say not being in the Europa will help us concentrate on qualifying for the champions League next year are kidding themselves, we haven't been in the Europa league for a while this season and can only manage to scrape a win against villa lose to Southampton and stalemates against West ham and Reading, it's no slight on those teams as on there day they're all good teams but we are Liverpool and we expect to be able to beat those teams. We have lost that arrogance that teams like Utd have and that's all they're coasting on. Utd are poor this season but have run away with it because they believe they should be at the top and they are. Sorry went on a bit of a tangent there point is as good a manager that BR is or isn't I don't believe he's got it in him to bring that arrogance back

The good times are back said...

You are making excuses Jimbob. If Rafa inherited such a shody team and won the CL and FA cup with majority of Houlliers players then why could Rafa not win anything in his last four seasons with the hundreds of players he signed?

Jimbob said...

What excuses have I made? Rafa did what he did and we were more successfull than we are now! I'm not saying we should sack BR and bring Rafa back what I am saying is that the whole BR inherited a poor team excuse is rubbish Rafa inherited a poor team and we had success under him then there's the team in transition guff every team is in transition every year recruiting new players getting rid of old ones If your not in permanent transition your not going to go anywhere. How about we don't field any player for the cups next season they're obviously not important then we can be sure our players are 100% focused on trying to qualify for the champions league, it's a defeatist attitude that's bringing us down. At least under Benitez were we're trying to challenge for the title now we'd be lucky to qualify for the Europa not even the champions league but hey you be happy with aiming for 4th best in the league and not even getting that.

Jason Carr said...

rodgers is just using this as another excuse we are not going to get european football this season ,and now its all part of his masterplan what a load of bollocks i wonder if shanks ever said i would not mind us qualifying for europe

The good times are back said...

Rafa only came close to winning the league in one of his six seasons at the club. The squad that BR inherited finished 7th 09/10, 6th 11/10 and 8th 11/12 and add to that Kenny won the league cup last season and that was the first trophy the club had won in six seasons.

Rodgers has signed 6 players since he came to the club. He hasn't even had the time to make this squad his own.

Go tally up how many of Rafa's signings actually won a trophy under his leadership and then it will paint you a better picture. Success is based on trophies, something Rafa failed to win in his last four seasons at the club. What were you expecting from Rodgers in his first season?

Ani Zanz said...

Disappointing stuff from Liverpool, but only really because of some inspired goalkeeping from Alex McCarthy:

– Alex McCarthy had more touches of the ball today than any Reading outfield player.

– Steven Gerrard led the game with 102 touches of the ball.

– Jamie Carragher completed 88% of his passes, a game-high.

– Only one Reading player managed to complete 80% or more of his passes (Pavel Pogrebnyak).

– Luis Suarez had more shots (7) and shots on-target (5) than any other player.

– Lucas Leiva won 8 aerial duels, more than any other player.

– Leiva also led the game with 7 successful tackles.

– Steven Gerrard made more interceptions than any other player (4).

– Jamie Carragher led the game with 9 defensive clearances.

– Nobody committed more fouls in the game than Noel Hunt (4).

– Jobi McAnuff was the most fouled player in the game (3).

– Garath McCleary was dispossessed 4 times during the game, more than any other player.

– Liverpool out-shot Reading 28 to 9.

– Liverpool’s pass-success was 13% higher than Reading’s (78% to 65%).

– Liverpool won 62% of the aerial duels which occurred during the game.

Jimbob said...

What I was expecting was a little more fight. I certainly wasn't expecting comments like Its a blessing in disguise if we don't qualify for the Europa! The best player in the world want to play in the champions league we can't give them that, every player wants to play in Europe full stop whether it be Europa or Champions League so where does that leave us? If we keep failing to make the grade then we become less and less attractive to the better players we can't keep riding on the coat tails of the past to bring quality players in. So if we do by some minor miracle make the Champions League places next season should we expect to cower out of the competition early the next season as our team is incapable of fighting on more than one front at a time? Rafa brought us silverware in his first season! Hell so did Kenny. I didn't expect us to be winning the league or conquering Europe but what I did expect was a can do attitude and a bit of effort not to limp out of all cup competitions and to say well its a tough ask for us to even try for a European place this season so why bother trying, we can just make a better go of it next year boys.

philip dean said...

So what your saying, we played really well but still could not win? a sign of a good team is playing bad but still getting the 3 points. if liverpool play bad, we get nothing, if we play well, we still may get nothing!

Jimbob said...

And to add to that I haven't once mentioned anyone's signings! We may have been baron towards the end Rafa's reign but we were at least competitive until his last season.

philip dean said...

I think rafa will do well with real Madrid, why not, he is used to Spanish football and has broken the mold of Madrid and barca before with a lower team. I think if he did go to real Madrid he would be successful.

Baxter SA Red said...

I have another theory, every competition we participate in is another competition we can get knocked out of, and each time we are knocked out it places Jolly Rodgers under pressure and fans question his Management ability, so for him its clearly a blessing in disguise.

I think most of the players have already realized that there is nothing left to play for this season, their body language suggested they were just going through the motions and their performance seemed to confirm that as far as they are concerned "the season has already ended"

Jolly Rodgers admires the "Dortmund blueprint" is he suggesting he also needs five years (heaven forbid) and we can only make a rapid rise into top four if we spend 80 million pounds .....has he forgotten he has spent about 50 million on 6 players (including Sahin) and only one has had any impact...I shudder to think what rubbish he will buy next year.

The good times are back said...

Do you really think Suarez cares about the Europa League?

This club has been in decline for quite some time now which is something most fans do not want to accept.

Rafa and Houllier took over squads who were already a top 4 team. Both Rafa and Houllier failed to finish in the top four in their first seasons. BR took over a squad as indicated before finished 7th in 09/10, 6th 10/11 and 8th 11/12 with winning only one trophy in six bloody seasons. Not once have we qualified for Europe through the league in 3 seasons.

Now I ask you again. What were you expecting from Rodgers in his first season?

Another thing that should be looked at is that for instance in 2004/2005 we finished the season on 58 points which got us 5th. This season 2012/2013 Spurs are in 5th already with 58 points.with six games left. Surely the league has become more competitive compared to the time Rafa took over in 2004/2005? City were nowhere to be seen back then and the likes of Spurs were not all that great either.



People need to look at our current situation and see that it is not as simple as some would like to make it to be.

philip dean said...

I was talking to one of my friends who is a Swansea fan and i asked him what is the difference between BR and ML. He said the swans are not playing the tika taka but are more direct and getting better results. He really believes ML is the better man especially considering he lost the midfield in Allen and sigurdsson at the start of the season and had to bring in a different way of playing whilst trying to move us on.

With all this in mind, I think Swansea made the right decision in letting BR leave for Liverpool as they have won their first ever major trophy, got a Europa league slot, did not have second season syndrome, moved two places in the league and all this when they had a change of manager and arguable lost their two best players who where their midfield in Allen and sigurdsson. In comparison it would be like BR coming into Liverpool and instantly loosing Suarez and Gerrard but then still winning a cup, qualifying for Europe, and cementing 5th or 6th in the league. Something that with Gerrard and Surez is achievable especially when you think ML was in the same situation wit ha lesser club.

Next year will be different to this, it will be BR second season with Liverpool something he has never done; have a second season with the same club in the same league. I do believe it will be a different one, a season where other teams can have a good look at Liverpool and understand like we have all been saying they have no plan B.

People have labelled BR attacking football on comparison to Barca but when you look in depth it is basically a sexier version of taking the ball to the corner flag, instead of taking the ball to the corner flag to slow a game you just play intrinsic small passes in your own half. It looks great and the stats are there to see especially passing % and possession but when you consider the premier season the swans had under BR man city where the only team to have completed more passes but on the other hand stoke where the only team to have fewer shots on target. In addition, when you compare the likes of Leon Britton to the likes of Xavi, Britton: 0 goals and 0 assists. Xavi: 10 goals and 6 assists you ultimately see that BR version of Tika taka is defending with the ball and not for the attack.
This is a good style of defending but as we have seen this year; if teams press us and counter quickly, then they often break this play up. To say BR brand of tika taka is the same as Barca's it a total fallacy in my opinion and the facts are we will play a passing system that is mostly a defending policy that makes your possession % go through the roof but when you analyse the midfield, they go backwards and sideways instead of forward like barca.

The good times are back said...

And you still have not answered the question on how Rafa won two trophies while majority of Houlliers players were around but failed to win anything in his last four seasons with his own players and please do not use 2nd as an excuse as success is based on trophies not finishing 2nd.

philip dean said...

During the benitez era you could easily argue that the premiership was more succesfull as Chelsea man utd, arsenal and Liverpool for a good few seasons where prolific in the CL. Compare that to this year all of the teams where out by the quarter final stage.

The good times are back said...

Well i would have liked to see how Laudrup would have done if he had to take the LFC job.

The Liverpool job compared to the Swansea job are far apart. Lets see how Laudrup does next season in the EPL.

Pclfc8 said...

Yes we had, I argued that more than anyone and I don't think you can blame the manager, that wasn't Kennys fault that professional footballers being payed £60k plus a week missed guilt edged chances, just like it wasn't Rodgers fault yesterday! Kenny was sacked because he wasn't the right man going forward, he spent OVER £100m for a 7th placed (only 2 points better off than we are right now) finish and a cup that nobody really wants to win!

If we win 1 more game then we have progressed in the league, pretty obviously. If you can't see that we're playing more attractive football and creating far better chances than last season, then I don't know what team your watching! Wev scored more goals, kept more clean sheets and are going to end up with more points...surely, progress?

In terms of getting the best out of players, what happened to Kennys 'famous' man-management ability in terms of getting Suarez to actually take his chances or getting Carroll, Henderson, Downing or Enrique to play well?

All of those players have shown by far their best form under Rodgers this season, please give the man a chance, we can't keep hiring and firing...it will get us nowhere.

Jimbob said...

All fair points except the Suarez one! Would he not rather Europa than nothing at all? My point is that I believe we're still in decline! What has Rogers done that makes you believe we're moving forward? I'll not comment on any of his signings as its still early days for them but he's had all season to get his way of playing across. Our players are all big boys it doesn't take that long to adapt to a new style of play, where is his plan B? He seems at times tactically inept and unsure of what to do to turn games around or to finish teams off. I'm not saying he's a bad manager, At points this season his tactics have worked a charm and we've dominated teams but you need to be able to adapt them depending on your opponent and that's where I think he falls down. Also in my opinion he doesn't have leadership skills to drag, kick, push or pull us in the right direction. Cuddles and love clearly isn't cutting it. I wouldn't mind so much if we were at least aiming higher, I'm not a fool and I don't expect up to be winning the league but what I don't want is this whole well let's not bother defeatist attitude, the Europa league might not be the elite competition we all want but its still a pretty prestigious competition which will bring in more revenue, gives the fans something else to cheer for and is another chance at silverware even if it was used to field the youngsters it would give them a taste of real European football before we do eventually qualify for the champions league however unlikely it is.

philip dean said...

Yes i agree with you the Liverpool job and Swansea job are miles apart, so why did FSG replace KD with a manager that has never had more than one season in the premiership. A manager with no European experience that has only managed a mid table club. A manager with an average win % of 40. Why did FSG take on a manager who has never managed top players??


I have to ask these questions as at a time when Liverpool needed the guidance of a strong experienced manager who could stop the rot and turn it around, a manager that Liverpool is accustomed to, a manager who we could easily afford and could give funds to. a manager in the esteem of Ancelotti Hiddink etc. So why did we turn to an unproven, inexperienced manager and now after a season of poor performances and a season where we have broken so many records for these poor performances are we as Liverpool fans surprised by the outcome!!

Chirag Vyas said...

They also lost Sinclair.

The good times are back said...

Rafa had six seasons at the club. how many has rodgers had?


i struggle to see the point of your comment.

The good times are back said...

Yes the Europa League is very prestigious when Champions League rejects get the chance to win the Europa League by being knocked out of then Champions League. Screw that competition I say. I would rather concentrate on finishing in the tp for next season than play in a second rate European competition flooded in the end by teams who did not make it in the champions league.


On my way to the shops. Will post some more later.

Jimbob said...

If that's the case then why isn't Kenny still in charge? And isn't the Europa league the change for another trophy? I don't have an answer to why Benitez didn't manage to bring in more silverware possibly because he wasn't good enought my point was we were a more competitive team. We aimed higher and expected more, now I don't expect us to be winning the league or anything like that at the moment I'm not a numpty but I still think we should be aiming as high as we can, not hoping we don't get Europa god forbid we as fans should have something to look forward to and the chance for more silverware.

Jimbob said...

Sorry my response to this post apparently didn't make at past the moderator so I'll keep this one shorter. Do you think Suarez would rather no competition over the Europa league?
Is it a lot to ask when the premiership is becoming more competitive that our team does as well? Everyone else is getting better what were doing only god knows up, down, sideways. We're no going to agree which is what the whole point of debate is I just don't feel Rogers is taking us any further forward than anyone else could have. I'm also not sure who would be a better person for the job I just feel its not Rogers. I'm not calling for his head but I also don't think we'll progress much further under his stewardship.

DustovGenius said...

Bring back Rafa before it is to late. And while that at that they can sell our club to someone with ambition and guts, and of course money.

DustovGenius said...

Because the manager trains the team, picks the team and builds the team.

Richlang said...

Liverpool went out of all the cups early this year but it didn't help their run in.

DustovGenius said...

Trouble is, is that the other teams have progressed more.

Pclfc8 said...

Agree 100%. Listen, I'm not a massive Rodgers fan, I just like the direction he is trying to take us in. Whether he's good enough remains to be seen but he clearly has talent!

gilstrap said...

kennys and rogers net spend is about the same.........

gilstrap said...

good points phil ...but its lost on some on here as they think he has a plan......

BEAST said...

The last 19 PL games of last year 5 wins 3 draws 11 losses and the next season under new management fans expect top 4.A little less fight compared to last season?

gilstrap said...

why wouldn't they have helped....suso and shelvey are both attack minded and we couldn't score...strange comment to make

Jimbob said...

I'm not stupid enough to expect top 4 in his first season I'm just not going to accept that not even aiming for a Europa spot because it gives us time to focus on the league is acceptable. If that's the case then Rogers needs to live by the sword and if he fails to get top 4 next season quit. We should be aiming to finish as high up the table as we can not shying away because we don't want the distraction of the Europa league it's pitiful.

Sattvic said...

We have become Wigan V2.0. Beautiful football but easily decipherable, teams can break us down easily or park the bus/defend so that they don't lose against us.
Is it just me or everyone can see that the atmosphere at Anfield isn't what its used to be.
BR changing the philosophy of football at Liverpool is one thing, but trying to change the 'Culture' at the club is not acceptable.
I hope that going out of UEFA cup is a good thing and BR then lands Champs League spot next season.

BUT if that doesnt happen, its all talk and he should be shown the door.

Sad days said...

The season began with great expectations and backing for a new manager with claims of building for the future and tactical awareness. However as the season has progressed I have seen tactical errors, subs at the wrong times, poor choices of starting line ups, young players pushed forward so fast their injuries keep them from playing..........this is not the management style I felt LFC wanted or deserved.

Brendan talks well...he had an empathetic inspiring way of talking that made me believe that he, like myself, wanted to pull the club forward, inspire the team and create the CLUB family mentality that binds and motivates players to play out of their skins week in week out.

To hear him say Europe is not important is devastating, to be out of every cup is disappointing, to be in a worse place in the league than last year is shocking but worse than all this the players have nothing left to fight and play for and it shows on their faces and in their body language. We will be lucky to hold onto our top players next season, they will want to play for a manager who craves winning at the highest level in every competition just as they do - yet Brendan has publicly shown that he is comfortable with a mid league place and appears to have no immediate aspiration to improve this.

Sorry Brendan, Liverpool need a manager who has tasted top flight success and who has the desire to re-achieve. Liverpool need and deserve a manager for whom winning at the highest level is a burning ache within their very being and a matter of sheer existence for them - sadly this no longer fits your profile.


It may well be that Brendan will be a world class manager in years to come, I for one believe that he needs to find managerial maturity elsewhere and return only if the passion to win is etched into his soul.

liverpool4life565 said...

That would of mean taking either Suarez,Sturridge,coutinho off.... If we took either Gerrard and Lucas off our defensive side would of been alot weaker.

liverpool4life565 said...

He went out on loan. Yesil is injured, and Ibe played in the youth cup against Chelsea....

RedX said...

Making it to the CL next year will largely be dependent on how whether FSG will provide the funds to move the club forward after a year of balancing the books and whether other teams will strengthen. Arsenal, according to rumours, are about to spend 70ml on the best talent available. That will be hard to match if it happens because they know exactly what type of players they need to buy to compliment their good squad which has a mixture of young and older experienced players. It will be very difficult to make it to the CL next year unless either of the top 5 teams has a stinker. The best we can do, unless there is heavy investment, is finish above Everton and increase the depth of the squad, hopefully by signing some good defenders, a play-maker (the Xabi Alonso type but not necessarily brining back Alonso) and some cheap, experienced players which have the maturity to unblock stubborn teams through their experience. (eg. like we had with Kuyt, Maxi, Benayoun, Bellamy etc. Arguably, these departures have weakened the squad)

gilstrap said...

why shelvey and suso on for sturridge and gerrard ...why not or a certain players untouchable

Pclfc8 said...

Is it really? That's interesting, we should be a lot better off than we are then. I just don't think we can keep hiring new managers, letting them spend money to build a team/philosophy and then firing them after one bad season.

liverpool4life565 said...

Because Gerrard and Sturridge are better goal scorers..

Enrik said...

Everyone, I agree that Brendan Rodgers reign at Liverpool has been, to put it lightly, a disappointment. His team selections and tactics have been questionable, as well as his transfer activity. However, we need to give managers more than a season before axing/ridiculing them, and I do not believe Rafa is the answer, he creates tension in the locker room. And also, his tactics revolve around suffocating the opponent's opposition.

Enrik said...

tbh, rafa never won the prem title because he could never dominate minnows, the 11 draws in the 08 season was ridiculous, we drew to teams such as hull city! We need a different manager than Rafa if we want to win the prem title, if our ambition is only champions league qualification, then by all means hire Rafa back.

Enrik said...

and remember that Rodgers wasnt lucky enough to inherit hyppia and carragher, and gerrard in their respective primes

Enrik said...

omg a club with a russian billionaire backing them is gonna easily win the europa cup and fa cup? Golley gee, the only reason why Chelsea is gonna win these things is cuz of Rafa!

Enrik said...

sorry for the sarcasm, i wasn't criticizing you, but I would just like the emphasize that liverpool has no where near the financial backing of the other top clubs

BEAST said...

"Not stupid enough to expect top 4 in his first season but for him to do it in his second or quit".The impatient nature of the modern football fan has got worse since the introduction of multi billionaire owners.
Everything has to be a quick fix and if not you get recycled bleatings from fans to oust the current incumbent.
Next year, I would expect a serious challenge for CL places.He would've had 4 transfer windows and enough time would of elapsed for his methods and signings to show they have a long term future with us.
A lot of fans want RAFA back but how many times are we going to look to the past to fix our future!

The good times are back said...

So what is your solution to our situation Jimbob?

The good times are back said...

Rodgers is a long term project. It will never deliver instant success. There is your answer :)

liverpool4life565 said...

Or our subs are not good enough could put it either way, that's why we need to buy experience players, which Rodgers will do in the summer also hopefully keep carra if all talks go well :)

philip dean said...

BR has not and will not buy experienced players, he will buy 18-24 yr olds in line with FSG policy. look at all his signings. Borini, allen, sturridge, yesil, coutinho and assadi are all young and will have a sell on fee. I do not think BR has the air of authority or CV to start demanding FSG change their tranfer policy. I will say one thing BR was brought in by FSG as he has the same sought of mentality in trying to develop youth instead of buying in experience. this is a good thing but you also need to buy in experience when you need it and we need it big time. we will see what hapends but i cant see liverpool splashing out 30m for a 28yr old. maybe 2-5m on a 28yr old max!!

liverpool4life565 said...

You don't have to be "old" to have experience, look at coutinho at age of 20 he played in three different country's, if we buy players like him who are good like him technique wise then that's a game change player, also we will buy some older heads but not for silly money... FSG are business people, they don't become billionaires for no reason

islesfan74 said...

I'm definitely not pleased with the results of the season, but I also can't say that I'm disappointed. I would have loved a top 5 finish but I don't think that was a reasonable expectation this year.


To me, this was, in essence, a rebuilding year. It's a terrible term to use, but it's the truth.


Next year, I want a Top 5 spot. Anything other than that, and next season will be deemed a disappointed unless we make some amazing cup run.

islesfan74 said...

Wigan 2.0 is a bit harsh. Wigan is continually battling relegation and celebrating just being in the EPL for another season.


Right now, LFC is just a standard mid-table club. Better than the bottom but not as good as the top.

islesfan74 said...

I really don't like his making excuses like this.


His political agenda is just too transparent. It's so obvious that it's almost insulting to listen to. And this is coming from someone who thinks that he can do well at LFC.


But it's very underwhelming when the manager continually makes excuses for himself and the club when they don't get the results they should getting.

philip dean said...

Class response!! long term project, how do you know it will even deliver long term success?


I will use the BR model in my work, how long would I get before he come to his senses and gives me the sack, see below my first year if I used BR model:


I will inform my boss that I only deliver over long term so he should not be too upset if I mess it all up in these first 3 years as I need to develop myself and the workforce even though the work force is professional and have been doing their job for years, they need years to develop my plan,but the plan is awesome honest.


I will present him with a detailed plan that he really doesn't understand but will get some of my mates in the office and other places to back me up to make me look even better.



I will ensure he understands that this plan is new and I may not deliver even in the long term because my plan is untested but he should have blind faith and trust me anyway and hand me the company's finances. In addition, there is no alternatives so if it fails there is no plan B.


Although my CV can be written on the back of a fag packet I will inform him he should trust me in the long run, As he has already seen in the early stages I have broken records for poor performance so knows that I am developing well and you do need to crack a few eggs before you make an omelette. I will also inform him, I cant really do any worse so the only way I can go is up.


After almost a year into my job I will inform him that the original plan is not working and as i have no plan B and i am irritating customers confusing players I quickly change tact and think we should employ another business model (Dortmund) but like the first plan, I am the man to implement it even though I know nothing about this new plan. I will inform him I will need control of the companies finances again and more time to implement parts of the failing old plan and the new plan that i know nothing about.


In addition, I will inform him that the new plan involves not getting money from expanding in Europe and we should just concentrate on one area due to my initial investments in personnel and equipment has seen me mostly buy in broken unusable items or some items that are not compatible with the company for many years.

Gary352 said...

I don't think this is sending out a negative message to the players, in private, they are probably listening to a different Brendan Rodgers, not the media induced Brendan Rodgers. This is primarily a message to the fans, the self-destructive ones who think no Europe is a "complete" failure. Yeah sure, its hard to take, but progress is still being made by Rodgers. Unlike other managers in Hodgson and even Dalglish, he is going from strength to strength and he doesn't let his ego get in the way because he is constantly taking an "I am learning" approach and becoming better.

As for this effecting the players? I don't think it would affect them one bit. On the contrary it will probably fuel them even more. They probably have added bonuses in their contracts if Liverpool make Europe, which means more money. Add that to the fame and psychological gain they would get from just being involved in Europe, any player would work hard for that buzz. You only have to look at the last game to see how badly the players wanted that win. And I HAVE to say, DAFUQ, how did we NOT score a goal. Unbelievable performance by their goalkeeper.

Gary352 said...

Yeah but we should have won the last game if not for their keeper. Enrique's goal vs Swansea and Suarez's goal vs Everton were both winning goals wrongly ruled out for offside, home game vs Man U was ruined by Shelvey sending off. We blew a 2 goal lead vs Arsenal, lost a win to Man City because of a drunk looking Reina. Its just the small things we gotta work on. The performances are there except the odd one here and there which teams like Man U get really lucky on.

oni olutayo said...

i have not read the other comments but i agree with philip hw can a liverpool manager say that europe is not important to liverpool to concentrate on the league next season, it just shows he has that swansea mid-table mentaity and which is affecting the club, am not advocating for the return of benitez, but we were better under him, and we had world class players, i mean benitez got alonso for 8m, signed misused babel for 11m, and we saw their effects on the team, but with 2m we get assaidi, who as not even played in champions league before, how on earth did't we get mirallas.....in my own opinion it is either br goes or.....

Gary352 said...

Your so arrogant that I am disgusted. You didn't even watch the game, so what do you know. The goalie was out of this world in that game. The shots that were taken by Liverpool were good shots, even Van Persie would have been awestruck. People like to believe that high expectations gets you to higher places, when in fact its the main cause to depression today. Same applies here, Liverpool played Reading off the park. And it WAS unlucky that they didn't win.

simple man67 said...

We didn't play in Europe last season. We didn't finish fourth. No Europe, no 'top class' players coming in, and how many of the better player will stay?
Hate to say it, but we NEED a Benitez type manager. Someone who WILL say it isn't good enough, who WILL moan about the lack of quality/depth of the squad, who WILL highlight the owners' lack of ambition.
This squad of players is no better than the one we had last season, the football is no better, the results are no better. The only difference is THIS manager thinks it's good enough, the last one KNEW it wasn't.

Jason Carr said...

i have no problem with what he thinks ,if he thinks thats best thats his opinion ,i just wish he would not come out with these statements in public

The good times are back said...

You have achieved nothing with your post. Gives us your solution to our current situation.

Jimbob said...

I don't have a solution to where we are at the moment. I am more than happy to back the manager and team for another season but if he fails to deliver top 4 I think he needs to resign given his comments. If we have to accept mediocrity now for a top 4 finish next season then he had darn well best deliver a top 4 finish next season. However I don't think he will and will await whatever excuses are thrown at us next year. If he does deliver it then I will be the first to admit that I was wrong but I don't believe he's the man to push us on. I would accept progress made but your idea of progress and mine are different. You've said in two separate posts that league position counts more than trophies then go on to say trophies are more important than league position depending on what argument your trying to make so this will be my last response to you. It has been a pleasure to exchange opinions with you look forward to the next time.

Jimbob said...

My apologies I mixed my posts up with the whole trophy thing you never actually said that, however it is the impression I got from your posts.

The good times are back said...

Chelsea were 4 points from the top before Rafa took over from Di Matteo. Now Chelsea are a staggering 22 points from the top of the EPL table.


The proof is in the pudding. Rafa is not cut out for the English Premier League.

The good times are back said...

Look mate, Last season we finished on 52 points. This season we are on 50 points with 5 matches remaining. Rodgers needs to sign some more of his own players to push on with his plan. He has only had the opportunity to sign six players. The summer window will be very important for Rodgers.

Look at how far we have come from the start of the season. Rodgers signed Sturridge and Couthino which pushed us on considerably. Some more players of their quality in the summer window and the top 4 becomes more likely.

I am feeling positive about next season. There is really no point in getting rid of Rodgers now. He needs another season. If he does not finish top 4 next season then it will be up to FSG to make the call.

islesfan74 said...

Agreed.

philip dean said...

he only signed a 3yr contract, surely his target would be title challenge by year 3 so why not 4th by year 2??? otherwise his plan is shit!!

philip dean said...

Solution; Sack Brendan rogers now, line up another manager that is world class, none of your untried and tested. my list would be:
-ancelotti
-hiddink
- Benitez
- mourinho
- simeone
- Klopp


Anyone of them will do, even BR suggested we adopt Dortmund example so probably start there!

The good times are back said...

Rafa took over a Chelsea team that were 4 points of the top of the League. They are now 22 points of the top. He is totally clueless when it comes to the EPL.

Your suggestion of Benitez being a replacement is totally and utterly flawed.

Mourinho would be my favourite from your list but not sure it will happen.

I am more than happy to give Rodgers another season and unfortunately for you that looks very likely to happen.

redgeorge said...

not what you would expect from a Liverpool Football Club manager. terrible thing to say, no wonder he can't motivate the team, that comment and the drivel he spouts after every game i.e. "outstanding" just exposes him......

BEAST said...

Yes, that's right contract length determines what should happen from year 1 to 3.Year 4 after a contract extension is a CL win.Year 5 is a double and 6 is a treble.(!)
If only life and sport was as simple as you make it out to be.You have a lot to learn!

philip dean said...

now your going a bit too far, whats you idea; years 1-3 coast around 6-7th in the league and have a decent cup run, yrs 4-5 try get into the top 4. Trust me FSG will want results and soon. Standard charter, Warrior and other sponsors currently paying over the odds for the current performance are not going to be around for long. If FSG want to ensure these sponsors stay, they need to get Liverpool firing and quick. Business is ruthless, FSG showed last year that if you fail, your out as they ripped through and culled commolli and KD without a heart beat. FSG will provide funds and have proven they will but, they will also demand return for their investment. As for having a title challenge by year 3, why not?? Harry redknapp took spurs from relegation to top 4 in 1 1/2 seasons.

philip dean said...

I have stated that if we cant get a world class manager i would happily give BR another year, do i think the year will bring trophies and top 4 sadly no, if it does i will happily take my hat off to him, but there is more chance of him failing on what i have seen than him succeeding. I do know one thing, next year will be a defining moment for Liverpool it is a season that will either cement us as a mid table club or if your right BR will propell us forward. I know one thing if we do not get 4th next year and this year is repeated, we will have a mass exedous from the club that we will not recover from.

BEAST said...

Business lessons from you,really?
LFC is a global brand you would know that if you travelled abroad.The pull of this club is incredible so worrying about sponsorship is a bit of a non argument.That side of the club will take care of itself and after the scandal our main sponsor was involved in, it would be a bit rich for them to sever ties with us.
Like most people who want to strenghten their argument you clearly don't read or are very selective in what you chose to respond to.I said next season I expect to challenge for a CL spot but for him to quit if we just fall short is stupid.
If we are struggling to compete for a CL place next season my view will change.
I refuse to type boring chapters on how much I hate him in the meantime because I'm a grown man with a busy life that has better things to do.You don't like him I get it, now move on and come with something constructive!

Eric said...

Thing is, dropping points to West Ham and Reading consecutively doesn't look good and of course we should normally beat the team at the bottom of the table, however, winning the league is not about one or two recent results, it's about form and consistency over a season. And on form, we've been improving. Whether it will be enough for next season with a few additions remains to be seen of course but just as it was ridiculous to start talking about the Champions League after Swansea and Wigan, it's also ridiculous to suggest we won't stand a chance next season. We'll have to wait and see but one thing is for sure, we won't get consistency by replacing our manager every year.

FdotM said...

BR is once again trying to lower our expectations. What message does that send to the players, almost saying it's okay if we don't achieve our most minimal goal.

This whole business of European football affecting PL performances is used as an excuse from clubs who either lose straight after a European game or are not going to achieve European football. I can understand that players do get tired but that's why teams have big squads. A team should always try to win every cup and not settle for mediocrity.


BR seizes to impress me.

nick1811 said...

So why the hell are we the most consistent side at scoring little to no goals despite playing teams off the park? When Man utd have one of those days, they still manage to nab a goal or two, so you're wrong, as I'm confident rvp or chicarito would have buried one of those chances, like sturridge's for example. Do you think Man Utd continue to be successful without high expectations? I doubt it.

Jimbob said...

I think you may have taken my post out of context as I am not an impatient person. I would be willing to give Rogers as long as he needs to turn the club around if I thought he was the right person to do it. What I was trying to get across was that if he suggests that we settle for mediocrity now to gain entrance to the elite competition next season then he needs to provide us with a Champions League place next season. There's no point in saying we don't want Europa next season so we can have Champions League the year after if your not going to deliver it. I would give him more time but from his comments he clearly doesn't think he needs it himself.

Gary352 said...

High expectations are for teams that are in the top 4 atm. High expectations are for teams like Man City (last year champs) United (runner-ups) , Chelsea (European Champs). What good does high expectations do for Liverpool in a rebuilding process with a manager in his first season at the club? Nothing.


All it does is create tension around the fans, which in turn transfers a negative vibe to the team. Whats next, you wanna start a petition to fire the manager and get someone else in to undo everything that was done this season because expectations arn't being met? We all expected to win against Reading, I know, and that performance should have got us the win. How can you berate Liverpool for that performance? Any other day we would have scored. People say we were unlucky last season, nah, this season we have been unlucky. We have been robbed of 4 points by the refs when Suarez's goal vs Everton, and Enrique's goal vs Swansea were ruled out for offiside. United game was killed off with the Shelvey sending off, we had the upper hand in that game. 2 goal lead vs Arsenal, Reina blunder vs Man City.


High expectations IMO give's false belief that we can get wins easily, being down to earth gives the team a better fighting spirit in games, which we needed in the losses vs Southampton and Villa this season.

nick1811 said...

this is the thing though, liverpool is always the 'unlucky one', 'always the victims'. if we were good enough, we'd create enough luck to cancel out all that bad luck. if we have low expectations, we're stuck with people like roy, who's aim was to not get belted 4-0 by chelsea.

nick1811 said...

I agree that standards can't be too high, but we expect our players to convert their chances in 95 percent of their games. they did so in 50 percent last year and have improved this year but still aren't good enough. I can't imagine any other team above us walking away from that match without any goals despite the chances.

BEAST said...

By me saying a lot of fans is clearly a side statement not directed at you or I would've said you directly!

islesfan74 said...

If we gave Wigan some of our players and our money, they'd be Liverpool 2.0.

Sattvic said...

Now we got it...didn't we m8!

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