2/17/2013 09:13:00 am

Redknapp blasts: 'Awful' Agger is to blame for West Brom fiasco. Harsh...?

Former Liverpool midfielder Jamie Redknapp has criticised Reds defender Daniel Agger for his atrocious defending during Monday's abject 2-0 Premier League home defeat to West Brom.

In his column for Sky Sports yesterday, Redknapp slammed Liverpool's inconsistency, and admitted that he 'couldn't believe' the poor performance his old club produce against the Baggies. Agger was at fault for both goals, and Redknapp delivered the following withering assessment of his performance:

"The defending from Daniel Agger for both goals was awful - he didn't do well enough to stop the movement at the corner for the first and for the second goal he should have known he needs to give a player like Romelu Lukaku a yard because he's so powerful"

Agger's defensive frailty has been well and truly exposed this season, and the reason we haven't seen this many mistakes from him in the past is (IMO) simple: Due to injury, Agger has spent more time on the sidelines than on the field, and this is the first time he's played this many consecutive games for the club. Basically, he never had the chance to make this many mistakes before because he wasn't on the field enough.

Anyone with eyes can see that Agger is a weak link in the Reds defence this season, but according to Brendan Rodgers, that's not the case at all. In his press conference on Friday, Rodgers completely glossed over Agger's defensive mistakes, and once again tried to fool Liverpool fans into thinking something that just doesn't match reality. He told Reporters:

"He [Agger] has been absolutely outstanding this season. He's has got that real warrior spirit"

As far as I'm concerned, this is yet another insult to the intelligence of Liverpool fans. Quite clearly, Agger has NOT been 'absolutely outstanding', and Rodgers' gross overpraise of the Dane is totally undeserved.

Don't get me wrong: Agger is not a terrible defender by any means. He has some great qualities, including comfort on the ball, bringing the ball out of defence, and accurate passing. However, his main job is to *defend*, and he's just not cutting it at the moment.



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62 Comments :

TomP said...

I understand people's frustration with hearing a positive slant on a poor performance; I'm just not sure how much importance you should actually place on those comments. Does it really matter? A part from frustrating fans? Does Rodgers truly mean those things he's saying or is he just pleasing journalists. Kenny was handling it badly by rising to the bait; but if Rodgers is just giving an answer that gives them little back a part from positive spin, how harmful can that be?

Emmanuel said...

Last year when Rodgers was appointed there were lots of people on this site saying stuff like "we need to give the new manager a chance" and "is gonna take some time and there will be setbacks". This same people are now calling for BR to be sacked. What I want to know is that, did anyone think it was gonna be easy?. This season is going exactly how it was always gonna go, there will probably be more setbacks. But I have absolute faith that LFC will be back to the top. YNWA 

Mike Aitcheson said...

Imran, you are continually puting a rose tinted view forward of KD's reign. Our form in the 2nd half of his last season was relegation level. You keep going on about stats, look it up. And yes, we beat some top teams, but at the expense of losing to middle/bottom teams time and time again, much more so than this season.

Yes we won the Carling Cup, but after struggling against a Championship side who should really have snatched it with their chance at the end- real supporters will know which chance I'm talking about-  and we lost the other one in case you didn't notice. Birmingham City recently won the same cup the year they were RELEGATED. This year there's a team from the lower leagues in the final. Nuff said.

Any cup is welcome, but let's not overstate our position during Kenny's time. It wasn't all that. I still thought we could have kept him for one more season, but his 2nd half of that season was pretty poor.

Bellamy and Kuyt, and Maxi all wanted to leave,and were on fairly high wages. And even with them, we barely scored last year- our total goals were about 47 I think, was very low anyway we already have 44 this season after only 2/3rds of it gone, that gives 66 a season at the current rate, against 47, and Suarez has already scored more this year than all last season. The points total at the current rate will be about 1-2 more for the season, so what was the difference between us then and us now?

The differences are these. We won't win the Carling Cup, or likely the Europa either. We won't likely get too many more points, or finish above 6th or 7th, let alone 4th.

But.

We WON'T have Cole on £90k per week doing nothing. We won't have Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy on similarly big packages and actually , contributing little but the occasional winning goal in a few big matches, whilst coming up short in other less high profile ones (47 goals total remember). We won't be faced with the cost of replacing them as they get too old and are worth little or nothing.

We WILL have younger more long term prospects like Sturridge, Coutinho, Allen (even though we overpaid for him, after Carroll, Henderson, Downing etc with KK , let's not go there), plus Lucas, Johnson, Suarez and Agger all capable of doing well or getting a decent fee.

We WILL have £17-18m for Carroll to get a decent goalscorer to help/ replace Suarez whether he goes or stays

We WILL have a coherent club ethos, whether you agree with it or not, which goes right through the club to allow youngsters to make the step up.

And we WILL have youngsters like Suso, Sterling, Kelly,  Wisdom, and Yesil, all of whom are good enough to contribute for years to come and then get a fee when they move on.

I'll trade THAT lot for a Carling Cup win and FA Cup loss, plus more Carroll/Henderson/Downing type signings.

the King will always be the King for me. Maybe Rodgers won't be up to getting us to where we need to go.

But don't mistake that for there having been no progress.

Sbax75 said...

West brom was his first really poor performance. Particularly the defending for the 2nd goal. Sorted has been thereal weak link all season though and Johnson's and Agger's ball retention al game was abysmal for them.

In reality though what is Rodgers meant to do? Slate him and affect his confidence? Agger's knows he had an awful game, he admitted as much.

Rodgers' positive attitude is to be applauded not criticised. Constant negativity gets you nowhere and the atmosphere in the stands on Monday didn't help the team. We as supporters have a part to play whether it be in the stands or on forums such as this.

We are moving in the right direction in terms of style of football, chances created, performances against the better terms etc. We need more time to adjust to Rodgers' style of footy and to get more of Rodgers' players in. Hopefully not more Borinis though and more Sturridges instead!

Theycallmemrburt said...

kenny's league record and signings since leaving Blackburn are  pretty poor.  Based on his recent past he should never have been given the job in the 1st place. 

Zanatos said...

Although you can also argue, the fact they only had 3 shots, would show how well our defense, and players in front of that did. Limiting any team to just 3 shots in a whole game, is pretty damn good. 

The problem, is the fact two of them shots resulted in a goals. We need to Iron out the small mistakes which are costing us games.

I could agree that the forwards, and mids need to score more, but if they don`t score, it would only be 0-0, not 0-2. The fault for the loss is shared with the whole team imo. The defenders and keeper have to take the stick for letting in two goals, and the attackers for not scoring at least 1.

We can`t expect to score loads of goals every game, that just doesn`t happen. Just like we can`t expect to keep a clean sheet every game, but I do remember when Jose won the league with Chelsea, and most of there results were 1-0`s. This shows a whole team working as one, attackers getting the goal needed to win, and the defense keeping the clean sheet. Right now we make too many mistakes across the pitch.

A lot for me has to do with our system, I`ve said since before the season started that this style of football will ship in goals, and it`s  not by chance a pretty rock solid defense for the last 6 years suddenly seems so shakey. We are still to slow on the counter, and usually push up fast right up to the final third, then we wait, by which time there whole team is behind the ball. We then have the defense pushed up high, then due to waiting to long, we lose the ball when trying to find a way through there team in the box, and bang they counter and easy goal.

Endless times I have seen us start the counter fast, and if we carried on that way, we would be clean through, yet we slow to let others get up the pitch with us. It`s almost like no one wants to be the player to try and take someone on, or run at the keeper just in case they lose it, and would rather pass to someone else to shoot.

rubyrm said...

Reina must be dropped as well. 

Barrymcfromfazak said...

imraan what r u smoking lad

Banoog said...

LOL! I hope the same as you do. If BR persists with his system in it's current form, a total rebuild is necessary. If he chooses to adapt, in the way he expects the players to adapt, then I'm sure we will see that wholesale changes are not necessary.

You are spot on with the areas that need strengthening and the type of player that we need. Unfortunately, BR has already stated that there is enough physicality in the team. He is wrong. This is the EPL, not La Liga. As much criticism as Dalglish faced, he knew that the team needed more physicality, hence why we almost signed Diame. 

BR done well without such physicality at Swansea, but Swansea were never going to and will never challenge for the Premier League title in their current form. How BR expects Liverpool to beggars belief.

OriginalChan said...

So good, that this was posted twice. Rightly so. ;)

Adrianmlfc said...

Agger is an epic player going through a bad run of form for the first time at LFC, I can't believe he's getting slated. Jamie last season you were saying he should take Stevie G's armband! He was the best defender at the Euro's by far and a mid-table Liverpool are extremely lucky to have him. Fans were loving him when he got YNWA tattoo'd on his knuckles, he has a couple of poor games and suddenly he's never been worthy of wearing an LFC shirt! No wonder we're a laughing stock!

DecDec89 said...

You have probably described the situation the closest to how I see it at the moment. 
I too believe our midfield is much too weak, no confidence fed through to back four who then drop back too deep, leaving too much space to our midfield that opposing teams exploit. Especially towards the end of the match when tired legs appear.
When we are creating so many chances and not finishing off moves, it becomes inevitable that the opposing team will score from one of their few in comparison chances.
I believe two very astute midfield generals in the summer (and obviously a commanding CB) would go a long way to linking the team together as a more complete unit.
I'm hoping it's more a case of oiling rusty parts, than totally rebuilding a broken ship.
I think Assaidi was last spotted playing himself on Fifa just so as to get a game.......

TomP said...

With 35 years of support I'm sure you must appreciate that football is hardly an exact science. I don't believe you can highlight statistics surrounding us not beating top 10 teams and use that as an argument. It is coincidence in my book - we have drawn many of those games and certainly missed out on victories narrowly on some of those occassions. Remember you are asking for opinion and you are getting it.

As for the sacking of Kenny; well you seem to be assuming that everyone who is backing Rodgers agreed with the sacking of Dalglish. I can say I certainly didn't! And it is for the exact same reason that firing Rodgers would be a mistake.
 
My view is there is growing discontent because people now demand instant results. As a few people have pointed out already, many were quick to offer Rodgers space and time to work through his style. Well what has changed? Fair enough you didn't agree with his appointment in the first place - neither did I! However, another massive change of direction would be both expensive and disruptive. Whatever Rodgers is going to achieve or not achieve will only be a fraction apparent at this point; therefore we should back him until he has had a proper chance (which Kenny never had).

Maybe you would say I haven't used a lot of facts or statistics here but that is entirely my point; stats at this point are just not constructive; Rodgers - like Dalglish - has not has his proper throw of the dice.

Mark Whitelaw said...

Ashley Williams is being strongly linked with a summer move to us. What's everyone's thoughts on that?

Also, one of the rags is reporting that, in the summer, the following players will be leaving:

Carroll
Coates
Downing
Skrtel
Enrique
Reina
Henderson

Of course, it could be just sensationalist media reporting but it's got me thinking; if they do go, who will come in?

Turan, again, is mentioned a lot in the press.
Lucas Biglia mentioned today, as are :
Ali Al Habsi
Fernando Amorebieta

Turan aside, are these players any better than what we already have?

Theycallmemrburt said...

With the exception of a brief patch last term our center backs and keeper have been stale or ineffective since rafas final season.  Each new manager that has come in has continually tried to give them footballs equivalent of mouth to mouth but to no avail.

Under rodgers we no longer try and defend the 18 yard box for 90 mins which means in theory our defenders have to stay switched on more or less like a keeper who has nothing to do for long spells but is then called into action.  our defenders simply do not have the concentration to switch on and be alert when they NEED to after strolling through a game for 70 mins. 

To conlude we need defenders with a goalkeepers mentality.  A mentality that understands it may not have much to do in a match but damn it when it is called upon it is alert and ready to go.  Setting a team up to soak up pressure requires a different mentality altogther and asks the defender to switch on from the start and then dig in.  This season our back four is so offensive it almost seems as though they are unable to toggle between offensive and defensive mindsets quickly enough.

If we are able to bring in close to 40 mill for Skrtel, Agger and Reina.  My plan would be 4 stale centerbacks and a keeper out , 4 new center backs and a keeper in.

Bjlane said...

don't you know, Brendan Rodgers was supposed to come in, our football was supposed to put Barcelona to shame, we wouldn't concede any goals and we'd score 200 up the other end. All this was supposed to happen after Rodgers' first training session and we should now be 30 points clear in the premier league ready for us to go and win the champions league each of the next 5 seasons.
Some people need to get a grip. 

anteater said...

How about blaming our forward players who made mistakes all game by shooting at people in the crowd instead of hitting the target. How about not scoring from the spot? WBA have had three shots on target all match, and scored from two of those. Surely doesn't speak for our defence and keeper, but if the players further up the pitch would have done their job and score, then one or two mistakes at the back wouldn't be so costly.

Greg said...

Redknapp should know how many games did he sit on the sidelines watching Liverpool games when he should have been playing?

Zanatos said...

I agree we should always be going for the best players, and managers in the world, regardless of if we can get them, but I can`t see jose coming to us ever. He seems to move to teams where there is a high chance of winning the league, I guess it looks good on his CV, and gives him better bucks. Chelsea when he went there, was a clear cut league winner, and Claudio almost won it the year before, and imo would have if they had kept him, Inter were the same, they didn`t have that many top class rivails, and just like Chelsea gave him loads of cash to spend, then came Real, again loads of cash in a two horse race. Beating Barca to the league was of course a hard thing to do, but it wasn`t like Real weren`t challenging them before anyway, as they were. 

So his next move... A team finishing 8th ish in the league, with not that much cash to spend, and up against some massive clubs, who can out spend, and out pay us. I just can`t see him taking that risk.

I might be wrong, but Jose, is the kind of manager that wants easy trophies, no real challenge. He isn`t the kind of manager who wants to test himself truely, as after all, his current model means he can walk into any league winning club, get paid crazy cash, and keep getting hailed as the greatest ever, due to winning leagues, with already winning clubs.

Imraan said...

what do you meen ...Please can you back up your comments with FACTS and Stats to prove your aguement or else you just wasting my time with your 1 line comments

shyypia4 said...

Ive said for while now Agger makes at least one mistake a game

Imraan said...

Im sorry but is that your best agument .... We have a right as supporters to voice our oppionion , its called freedom of speach ...If you are such a passionate BR supporter than back up your comments with facts and stats .... 4 your info I do support Agger NOT BR

H8UTD said...

what i want to know is WHY it hasn't happened!?!?!?!?!?!?

Banoog said...

Imraan, I have been asking for weeks for someone to explain exactly how we have progressed, only one person has responded. I would love to see some stats to qualify such statements, because seeing that we are likely to be out of Europe by the week's end (a competition that Kenny and Steve got us in to), I'm not sure how these statements can be justified.

We've gone from a squad that looked like it needed to add a decent striker in order to challenge for a top 4 spot to one that apparently needs improvements in all areas. Are we so lacking in talent, or is this apparent lack of ability due to poor tactics, preparation and mindset?

Doron Snapiri said...

One of the best comments I've read in the last month.

nick1811 said...

So Agger is considerably mistake-prone, Skrtel is mistake prone, and so is Johnson. Do we implement scorched earth policy on the defence jaimie? No wonder we always choke against the big teams, there's too much smoke around from the perennial scorched earth practices we seem to do in the transfer market, "getting rid of the deadwood".

BrenFC said...

I agree fully with imaraan. We beat top teams in both PL and Cups. Now we cant beat anyone in top 10. Which was easier fix.

Also where would we be worth Steve for most of the season, ever present this year for every minute, Saurez for 8 games, Lucas when he was going so well last year.

Borini, Allen - people said we signed great players as they were young. I could tell in 2 minutes that Borini is a total waste of money and Allen is over rated and cost too much. Yet this was justification of real progress. Both swill be shipped on , Allen will take more time to ship out as more embarrassing for BR to do so, Borini will be home sick or something like that to ease him quietly out the door.

We have what a lot of fans wanted, removal of KD and a yes man for owners who will be licking their lips at the profit to be made on Saurez.

Following LFC 40 years, we are now a middle tier selling club to make profit for the owners so that it can fund rebuilding of stadium, to increase the value of their investment.

Next time we go to Wembley , it will be because the bus driver has gotten lost.

Wonder at what point in time will Jamie ditch his blind support and jump on the next guy.

Time to wake up to the new reality at LFC. 

No debts but no hope either. Mark my words, some big players leaving in the summer and Saurez to head the list. Then we can speculate on 4 more borinis.

OriginalChan said...

Sometimes you got to tell it like it is in public, especially when things aren't going well and we are a club that likes to talk the talk but can't walk the walk at the moment. Even Jose has spoken negatively about his own players' & team's form this season because of the at the end of the day, there is a limit to how much rose-tinted waffle you can come out with in public, especially when you are that far behind the pace. We are that far behind the pace. There is no hiding it and for Rodgers to come out with some of the waffle he does, it makes me cringe. Pull the wool talk. Ferguson has often criticized their team for the way they let go of the lead last season and uses that criticism to make sure they have their on the ball this season. Mancini has often criticized his own team, even his own players do it like Hart. There is only so much waffle/spin you can do to hide things. 

TomP said...

I don't understand why it is so important what Rodgers should be saying in press conferences? Ferguson would an unwelcome reference point but he spins thing for his team all the time. I actually think it goes hand in hand with success. If a manager stays positive (perhaps deludedly!) and keeps a positive spin on things that seems to me the necessary mind set to adopt.

I would suspect Jaimie will say that players need a wake up call, but I'm sure he can deal with this with Agger privately.

I don't understand the fuss?

anteater said...

Hyypiä would be my choice as a defensive coach. His reading of the game is second to none. Didn't he even do some art of defending clips with FIFA.

OriginalChan said...

Even some of his signings LFC during his first reign, especially in the latter parts, were hardly anything to write home about, such as Carter.

Hmautomitive_info said...

Some very good points Imraan , I would like to add that Our defence under BR just seems lost / confused the team seem to pass sideways and backwards at a pedestrian pace for no reason whatso ever even in the 90 th min when we are chasing the game

Gary Fm2u said...

Last year a lot of you wanted Dalglish out

I asked what was progress if winning something after 6 years without wasnt progress
The BR appointment was not a good choice

We should of let Dalglish build us again
Build up his back room staff
With carra then Gerrad in a few years
Rome wasnt built in a day

One year later , where are we ?

9 th out the two cups and soon to be out the daft Europa cup
BR by the way thought Thursday was near perfect !

I remember near perfect as winning 2-0 away
When we could of won 3-0
My I'm getting old !

Nige said...

You may be on to something. Such a stingy defence in previous seasons and now so pony! Must need a defensive coach?!!! Carragher maybe?

DecDec89 said...

As someone eloquently put it recently; "the real Mourinho is out of the question, let's get the Irish one....He in turn stated, the real Xavi is out of the question, let's get the Welsh one.....
With the Special One's relationship with his current club seemingly about to come to an end and his desire to return to the PL; if FSG are to be seriously taken at their word of where they see the club going, shouldn't they (no matter how ridiculous it may seem) at least consider such a move....."
This may seem a little harsh towards Rodgers but it does get the mind wondering.
As a certain JK would put it, "worth a look?"

anteater said...

Limiting them to three shots points at us making only very, very few mistakes at the back, doesn't it? However, those few mistakes, lead to goals for the opposition. We don't capitalise on the opponents mistakes at the other end of the pitch in the same way. If we did, we'd win such games 5-2 or draw 2-2 at Zenit.

My point is, as you've mentioned, too, that "the fault for the loss is shared within the whole team". It's easy to point the fingers at Agger, Skrtel, Johnson, Reina, but it is equally easy to point the finger at Gerrard for missing a pen or Suarez for not finishing off any of the plethora of chances in our past two games.
Sturridge, so far, seems to be a lot more prolific and we've missed exactly that in our past two games (and much of the season).

The example of Mourinho is an interesting one. Winning many matches 1-0 is a good thing, in one way. It requires a certain set-up (more or less counter-attacking). The way we attack, even on the counter, would rather suggest that those games would end 0-0 for us, as long as Reina doesn't go on a walkabout. That particular style of play would not be death by football, it would be death by boredom, at least for the neutral observer. Should the death by football principle work within a year or two, I'd rather prefer to watch that to be honest.

The observations you make about our system, when attacking, is apparent for quite a few years now. Again Sturridge seems to be different. He enters the danger areas as soon as possible, while most of our players have been shy of entering the box for many years.

lowey said...

I cant really comment on this one, apart from jk you are totally spot on with this. confidence breeds from the back.
and 1 point would be better than none ie westbrom = 0-0 result
agger and skrtel as ive said to many times are inconsistent and weak.
for example put even stokes 2 centre backs into liverpools centre back position and Liverpool would be a better side.
well said jaimie and jaimie !!!

lowey said...

why not ask the fans who put the effort and money in to go to the game against westbrom, and rightly so left before the final whistle.
if you love the club you should be angry and sad to see men of the team playing like pussys...............simple

lowey said...

laughing stock because of incompetent soft defending.
torres has a lfc tattoo does he not???????
say no more

Clydewootton said...

.
to all liverpool fans ...gone are the days when you can just walk over teams like they wasnt there , teams lower down the leagues are catching up fast get used to it .would like liverpools fans op[nions on the diving suarez does ..honest answers

Dillonindge said...

Lets just say your right mr redknapp and agger was to blame for both goals surely if we cancelled out all the mistakes agger made in the match we would still of only drawn the game 0-0 which still isn't good enough really.You could blame Gerrard for not scoring that penalty that never was or even reina has not exactly been in the best of form of late either.

Voland said...

Admittedly he made mistakes in the WBA game - and admitted as much on Twitter. This does not change the fact that he is one of the few truly high-quality CBs in the game. At the same time, Liverpool need more depth at the back, with frailties exposed in the partnership between Skrtel and Agger which were not there during the reign of Dalglish-Clarke. 

Whether this is down to the coaching under Rodgers, game tactics or perhaps the lack of sufficient experienced competition for the CB places, is of course the big question. Either way, with Jamie Carragher's retirement and the lack of proven backup options at the back almost across the entire defence including the goalkeeper (the exception being Wisdom as backup for Johnson), it seems that Liverpool need to bring in some proven quality at CB (perhaps Sakho of PSG), LB and reserve goalkeeper.

Voland said...

Forgot to add that I see these additions as complementary to our existing CBs and goalkeeper - and am not convinced by those who think we can afford to lose a goalkeeper of Reina's quality ...

Dillonindge said...

He dives a lot but your not going to get many Liverpool fans like myself mentioning too much .It's like you never here the winning teams manager moaning about the ref.A penalty is not given against man u for example and after the game they ask Fergy did you think that was a penalty .You can bet your bottom pound he will not say yes it was.Either he didnt see it or he didnt think it was and every manager in that same situation says the same.Look at Rogers ,we have had some bad results recently and Rogers suddenly decides to moan about fixture congestion .We won 5-0 today so i bet he doesn't mention about fixture congestion tomorrow .Thats football im afraid .Im pretty sure in a match that the ref got some decisions wrong for the winning side as well as the losing one yet its only the losing manager that will complain about it 

Voland said...

Balanced comment, agree with almost everything you say bar one thing - the departure of Kuyt was a major loss and left a gigantic, hero-size gap in the team. Dirk was a true warrior, fought during every minute he spent on the pitch and (like our Captain Fantastic) never knew when he was beaten. Moreover, like Stevie, Dirk has a knack of scoring important goals in critical games - how we could have used someone like him to shore up team morale when the chips are down and act as a role model to our young players. He is now delivering the goods for Fenerbahce and, like Alonso, I would welcome him back to Anfield anytime!

Dillonindge said...

If there is a player that dives a lot in the team you support i bet your not as bothered as you are about players diving who play for other clubs ?

Adam Griffin said...

So now Rodgers view, as manager of the club, is insulting? I think we've clearly tipped over the edge of taking things far far too personally. It's not Rodger's job to say what fans want to hear. It's not his job to help you feel better after a loss, it's also not his job to give you fodder for incessant whining and complaining. His assessment of a player is entirely up to him, he has not the least bit of responsibility towards fans or anyone else. The very idea that he's supposed to make comments that somehow pander to the needs of over-invested fans is insane. Thankfully in real life no manager would ever subscribe to that kind of insanity. Rodgers will just go about his job, give his usual assessment of players that he thinks is appropriate at the time and fans can make up their own mind if they want to feel personally insulted. FFS. 

Mike Aitcheson said...

So would I, but he knew he would be a bit part player and didn't want a second season of that. He was a hero for us, that's for sure

Mike Aitcheson said...

Torres' tattoo was a coincidence, it was aimed at a bunch of his friends and he had it some time before we were after him

Manoj Prem Kumar said...

He was responsible for Dzeko's goal (in-part)
for Van Persie's
for Jon Walters' equalizer
for Weimen's (in-part)

I'm saying he's a bad player, he needs a strong stopper like Dawson or Vidic (Not Martin Skrtl or an retiring Carra) alongside him, so that he can cover.

Kopiguni said...

Having the players u mentioned as dead weight around on the bench is something we call squad depth. If you think they should not be there, then why not fill up all the space beyond first 11 with kids? They will be real cheap for a start.

Under KK, we knew for a fact we drew alot of games due to luck (we were top in hitting the posts and crossbars), now? Its due to the dead weights seniors, then the kids, then the signings which didn't fit in, the ref, the injuries, the lack of a decent frontman.

I would love to eat my words in return to see our team back to winning ways but don't you think BR just sound like a good salesman touting a broken product?

I'm sure after the Swansea win, his fans will again go ga ga and claim we are back, only to be brought down to earth becoz his tactics only work for some teams (and when i mean some, its a few).

Progress should be measured by something tangible, i agree some games made me sit up and be excited but you will be dead wrong if you are going to trade this little excitement for results (which we did not have). For the record, i was excited aplenty during KK's reign and my disappointments were becoz we didn't win and not becoz we lost to lower teams such as now. 

Kopiguni said...

Adam, i agree its not the manager's job to say what we want to hear. However, we the fans are not fools, sooner or later (and i think its abt now), ppl are finding out that this empty man talks a little too much, with the likely intention to hide his lack of results and capability. Its true that its unfair becoz every comment opens himself to interpretation (recall KK was slammed for Luis's defence) but its the overall picture each manager paints. Rafa likes to be fighting, Woy looks totally ill at ease with a mike in his face, KK likes to be honest and plain and BR likes to over praise and under promise.

Not all of us supported his appointment but objectively we did give him a chance. How long we give him is all objective to each supporter. Some spat the moment he arrived, others like me call him a bluff half way thru the season and yet there are many who say we must give him 3 to 5 years.

Rome is not built in a day they say, i remind these ppl that Rome was built by capable ppl and even such empire crumbled. The jury is still out on BR for many fans and for fans like me, i'm just put off that he has never put his hands up for any of the failings. It's always something wrong with something else or someone else. I think he has not got the capability and skills to do what is required (a good talk only brings you so far) but who am i to make any judgement anyway? I'm just a passionate fan who can't stand the sight of us losing and worse...to hear fellow fans claiming WE SHOULD BE HERE...honestly thru my 25 years supporting the club, i have never seen such mediocre thinking so wide spread among the fans...

For fans for asked for 3-5 years for BR, be careful what you wish for coz you may just get it. I hope in 3 years time we are celebrating the CL victory again (and i will happily put my hands up and say i was wrong to call him a bluff) instead of setting off fireworks becoz we managed to beat WBA and Oldham which we didn't do this season.  

OriginalChan said...

I know KK II was at the other end, in terms of his interaction with the media but Rodgers sometimes just takes it too much the opposite side. Neither one's media approach has been good. At the end of the day, what you say to the media is what the fans hear. I was talking/implying about 'frustrating fans'. When the club is blatantly not doing well over a sustained period, the last thing the fans want to hear is the manager trying to pull the wool over their eyes. There is a limit to what fans can take. Maybe Rodgers isn't at that point yet with the mass support but look at Wenger and Arsenal fans, it is reaching breaking point his spin on 4th spot v domestic silverware. Who would have thought he is almost at the point of using up all the goodwill he has accumulated. More and more fans can't stomach his PR spin on the Arsenal situation. Obviously that has been going on a long time but we are in a worse situation and still want to talk the talk like some top 4 challenger, so Rodgers has to be careful in the long run. So of course, it can be harmful in the long run. In the short term, he can get away with it in front of the mass support but doesn't mean he shouldn't ease off. There comes a point when he has to back up the spin, on the pitch. Some, like me, are a fan of telling it like it is, instead of trying to pull off the pull the wool act. God forbid he comes out with this classic he said at Swansea last season!:

"It is great for the public here at Sunderland to see us," he said after the game. "They must have been wondering what this team everyone is talking about are all about and now they have seen. We were wonderful."

They had lost 2-0 to Sunderland.

My word.

OriginalChan said...

Hitting the posts as much as we did last season is simply poor finishing, not bad luck. Once in a while can maybe seen as bad luck but doing it that much is simply a weak excuse to call it luck. Not sure how one can determine luck as a fact, especially in those circumstances, as it is such a subjective thing, luck. It was simply poor finishing last season. Not luck. Luck is an excuse and excuses for the weak. 
Plenty were pulling out the ref excuse last season. Plenty were pulling out the Suarez suspension excuse last season and even now with Imraan above. Plenty (probably more than this season as Stevie missed games) were pulling out the injuries excuse last season and even now with Imraan. Swings and roundabouts, swings and roundabouts. On one hand you bring out a list of excuses people use for Rodgers, yet just bring out the one for Dalglish, even though a reliable memory would bring up the Gerrard-injured excuse, media witch hunt excuse, Evra saga excuse and Suarez-suspension excuse that many people used last season. Consistency. Please, consistency. 

Zanatos said...

Defenders and keepers get a lot more stick for mistakes, as usually it results in a goal going in, so highlights there mistake. Missing a open goal, doesn`t lose you the match, just keeps the score as it was before you missed that shot, therefore is easier to forget.

As a general, I think we are doing ok. There is a lot of good things happening, just still areas that need ironing out. I say Ironing out, and not fixing, as I don`t think all need replacing. Agger for me, is still good enough to keep, just need a bit more work on marking. He rarely makes any other mistakes. 

Dispite all his errors, I also think we could do a lot worse than Reina, even though I do think we need to look into getting someone new in there. If the rumours that Barca want him are true, we would have to question why does the best team in the world want our keeper? He can`t be that bad if they want him. Like Agger he just needs to sort a few bits.

Sturridge has made all the difference for us, we look a completely different team when he is in it. I think that highlights how much we have missed a real striker. Suarez has been amazing this year, 22 goals is a very good stat, but he has been doing it on his own, in terms of goal scoring. 

The positive for me, and the reason why I would like BR to still be here next season, or at least until Jan, and re look then, is that Rodgers seems to see what needs fixing, even if his attempt to fix is doesn`t work out well. He saw we weren`t scoring enough, and signed a Striker, but also Coutinho, showing he could see we needed goals from other parts of the attack too. He dropped Sterling, who as good as he will be in the future, doesn`t score. Granted some of Rodgers signings haven`t done to well, but I`m sure that will improve over time, and at least being able to see what needs fixing is a good thing. I remember when Rafa really needed a Striker, and brought a Center Mid. 

Will he be given the time tho? I really don`t know. I want us to keep playing well, and keep winning, as I really feel we aren`t far off being one heck of a awesome team. Looking at who plays who for the games left, we have a better list on paper than both Everton and Arsenal, so could possibly hit 5th, or 6th. I really hope we do, not cause its a great place to finish, but because we might then keep Rodgers. 

Zanatos said...

This may or may not make you chuckle, but last season on sky (I think??) I saw a little interview they did with Hendo and Suarez, and they had a comp running in the team, each week they would take on the leader sort of thing. The comp was from the pen spot, you had something like 3 shots, and the winner was the one who could hit the top post of the goal more times with his 3 shots (I get this was for fun, and to pratice skill). Now this was last season when we kept hitting the post. 

I was like "OMG thats the last thing we need to be training on"

Zanatos said...

You can still support a team, but dislike the manager or some players, as it is the club you support, not players or managers who come and go.

Personally I like Agger, and minus the speeches like Rodgers, just pointing out the fact just cause you support a club, doesn`t mean you can`t want it to improve, or have better players etc.

OriginalChan said...

Hehe I take back my 'poor finishing' comment! ;)

Zanatos said...

I kinda agree with this, while they do bug me, but I usually think what they say to the press, and what gets said behind closed doors are totally different. I have heard a lot of fans, including Jamie, use the point that you shouldn`t praise them for losing, but for me I think, he is just talking to the press, and I`m sure when he gets in the dressing room, they get a right earful. I can`t imagine after losing a game, he goes into the dressing room and says well done.

Rodgers does go over the top a bit, but he has also put the team down, when we have played bad. I think the thing most fans struggle with, is he bases his press view on how we played, rather than the result. I.E when we have played bad, he has actually come out and had a go, but when we played well but still lost, he has stayed positive. Classic example was West Brom game. Dispite all the fuss on here, I really thought we played very well. I know we lost, but in terms of performance we were good, just slipped up on a few things. His talk after just praised how we played, which was true, we did play well.

Zanatos said...

Techincally No. I think that was the answer you weren`t looking for

Zanatos said...

Honest answer? He does dive, less so now, but prob will again. Not much more than most Strikers though, just gets more press about it, and is worse at it (rubbish at making it look real).

Classic example is this, I can walk into the office on a monday, and hear half it talking about that really bad dive Suarez did, while I know one of the players from there team also dived that weekend, but they seem to forget that, and the press doesn`

anteater said...

That Rafa part was funny, and true.

Well, as we've been losing games which we dominated, I don't hold my breath when it comes to finishing 5th. But I, too, would like Rodgers to stay, for all the reasons you give.

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