Unarmed, yet Shot SIX times. Murdered by the Police. Disgrace #Justice4MichaelBrown

4/02/2012 11:30:00 am

Manager claims: £17m LFC *traitor* has been a 'unique' signing for us...

Javier Mascherano left Liverpool under a cloud of controversy, amid accusations that he refused to play for Liverpool in a game against Manchester City. A few months after that incident, the Argentinian left for Barcelona in a £17m deal, and Pepe Guardiola believes that he has developed into one of the most important members of Barcelona's star-studded squad.

At the time of alleged City incident, Roy Hodgson admitted that he couldn't defend Mascherano's actions, and labelled him 'selfish':

"It's not easy to defend his actions because professionals are paid to play and when called upon to do so, they should. It's a selfish situation where they [players] want to do something and then expect the club to bow down and accept they are going to get their way"

Since arriving at the Nou Camp, Mascherano has been transformed into a very effective central defender, and after another excellent performance against Athletic Bilbao on Saturday, Guardiola was full of praise for the player. He said:

“Javier is an almost unimaginable signing. He’s the type of player that a manager wouldn’t trade for anything, and would never sell. He’s a unique signing, we’re very pleased to have him."

I may be in the minority here but I was never a fan of Mascherano. At the time of his signing, I argued that it was a waste of money, and that Benitez should've used the money to sign an attacking midfielder.

I stand by that view; objectively, I agree that Mascherano was an excellent defensive midfielder, but Liverpool didn't need him, and his signing just made the club more defensive than it needed to be.

At one point, I even showed how Liverpool became more defensive with Mascherano in the team, and highlighted how this negatively impacted on results.

Additionally, Mascherano was just like Pepe Reina in many respects, i.e. constantly moaning in the press about wanting to leave, which is never good to see.

Javier Mascherano? Guardiola can keep him.

Jaimie Kanwar


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57 Comments :

Cerasstar said...

Is this a situation of nothing more than sour grapes mate! He played well for us until the end when he wanted to play for the champions of spain. Then he acted like a traitor and a wimp...

Jaimie K said...

Sorry, Cerasstar, but you ignore the reality of Mascherano's time at LFC. 

http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/12/whats-point-javier-mascherano-wants-to.html 

That's why I'm not his greatest fan.

Jaimie K said...

Sorry, Cerasstar, but I feel you ignore the reality of Mascherano's time at LFC. 

http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/12/whats-point-javier-mascherano-wants-to.html 

That's why I'm not his greatest fan.

Glowingdleirious said...

I get the feeling youre not very fond of South Americans. Youve been quick to defend the likes Carroll in the past but just as quick to condemn the likes of Suarez, calling him a racist. I just wonder if youve taken a long hard look in the mirror lately.

mizzy said...

C'mon Jamie, y do ignore the fact that it was because of Macherono and alonso that gave stevey his freedom to form a deadly partnership with torres. Seriously, i like they way u write ur articles but this one, it almost seems u r jus targeting rafa better signings, Mascher is world class like it or not, him, steve and alonso, were a force to be reckoned with in Europe, and as liverpool fan am surprised u cant see that, football is not all about attacking, if u want to blame so called lack of goals, point the finger at babel, kuyt and reiera, Mascher was there for one thing only and that was  to break the oppoistion play, u dont go to old trafford and win by 4 goals, u beat real by 4 goals, it was well oilded machine, and thanks to the powers that be, Rafa who turned us into a force in Europe got fired, now look at us, Please credit where it due #jussaying  

mizzy said...

p.s he is playing for what people would call the best team in world atm, says alot dont u think #jussaying

mizzy said...

I think u r really reaching in this article Macher was and is class point blank period!!!

Lion Heart said...

Mascherano was the one of the best player Liverpool had though Lucas has replaced him for good but still he was hell of a player. I don't see how Liverpool became too defensive with him in the team, he was so good in breaking up plays and he provided lot of energy in the midfield and with him in team Liverpool played at higher tempo and never slacked off, like they do now with Spearing. Though i don't like him for the way he left the club but still he was one of the top player that Liverpool had.

mizzy said...

Lets not forget atleast he dedicated barca champs win to us, says alot from someone who always gave his all for the club #jussayingJamie

Mitzsu said...

Likewise Jamie, i also felt that Masch was a player we didn't need at the time for the same reasons you state, wasn't that bothered when we off loaded him either because you could tell he wanted out.....in fact he was literally straining at the leash to get to Barca......

Players like that are unsettling for the side, Reina has become the new Masch just looking for an excuse to jump ship.......I really don't think these players are half as loyal as they claim to be.....all the press comments they make are usally totally self serving....

Fair enough if they are ambitious etc but at least show a solid commitment to the cause whilst at our Club......

Lion Heart said...

If Reina wants out, he should be sold and Liverpool should buy Krul  or Al habsi, both are much better goalkeeper than Reina. Though Reina is great all round goalkeeper and probably the best distributer of the ball but he is an average shot stopper and shot stopping is the thing that matters most in goalkeeping. I personally think Krul has been best goal keeper in the league after Joe Hart whereas Reina has not been even among top 10 goalkeepers in the league.

mizzy said...

Btw, liverpool would have had a more attacking threat if Rafa was given the the money he wanted, dont forget people like silva and mata were willing to come, if they had come these players would be able to p express themselves because people like Macher would have covered or won the ball for them, as i said soccer is not all about attacking each player has a role and Machers is not to attack, one of the main reasons he was bought, by barca is because pep,noticed they were too 'soft' when they were beaten by a inter in 2010 (who by the way had a solid midfield similar to the one rafa constructed), i remember telling myself when we annihilated real at anfield that the in normal times our midfield should been playing for real, as they were the true stars, funny how two of them now are playing arguably two of the best sides in the world, Rafa must have been on to something #jussaying 

Allenvanwyk said...

I tell ya what..I wish we had him now

scallyryan said...

You can highlight individual players as too defensive but in Benitez team Mascherano was the key element to our success especially in Europe!! No one can argue Mascherano was world class for us, whether we were too defensive is irrelevant to me as I know you need a balance to the team.
Mascherano and Alonso(IMO) were best central midfield pairing in Europe for 2 seasons!!!! Doesnt really matter to me Mascheranos level of goals and Assists, for a team to be successful you need hard fuckers to win you the ball back and keep it simple!!!
I would take him back.No question about it!!!!!

Karlsutton25 said...

Mate are u having a laugh he was top class and I've started to notice u never stop critiquing Liverpool always negative crap outa u ur not a fan ur a glory hunting man u fan I'd say although I agree daglish is shite a fkn joke tbh and the management of lfc from the directors over many yr is crap u still need to support the club not keep being sonegative

Andy said...

I'm starting to think you don't like any player at all. Mascherano was top class for us and always gave his best right up until that City game. You're honestly telling me you wouldn't have him in the side rather than Charlie Adam, Henderson et al? 

Jaimie K said...

It's not a question of 'like' - it's not personal. I support LFC, not Mascherano FC. Players should be loyal to the club, not try and engineer moves away during the contract, which is what Mascherano did, and it's what Reina has done.

Lion Heart said...

So you would rather have a player like Spearing who is loyal over player like Mascherano??
Eventhough the way Mascherano left was not right but he made a right career choice and Barcelona are definitely a step up from Liverpool rightnow. Loyalty is now a thing of the past and good players want to play for the best which currently Liverpool are not.  If clubs can get rid of players they don't want then why should players be any more loyal towards the club.

Zulkifli said...

Masch is world class and that's why Barcelona bought him. For me Lucas is now a decent player but two years ago he was crap and useless and today he's still not good enough for Barcelona.As for Spearing,Adam or Henderson they are not good enough even for Newcastle.

Mali341 said...

MMascherano saw the ship sinking and jumped before it was too late....can't blame him...he has gone on to winning the champions league..la liga ...world club championship....

Is playing for the best football team in the world....

If he had stayed...he would have Carling cup and be midtable finishes

Torres saw what was coming too and chipped....Reina must wish he did same....so will Gerrard

Jaimie K said...

I would rather have neither as first-teamers to be honest. Liverpool didn't need Mascherano; the money needed to be spent on a top class attacking player. Some facts for you:

* In the two seasons prior to Mascherano's arrival, Liverpool drew only 15 league games (7.5 per season)

* In the two seasons *after* he arrived, LFC drew 24 league games. and Masch played in almost every single one.

* In 2008-9, He made only 27 league appearances, the lowest of any first-team regular that season.

* In 2009-10, Mascherano made the most league appearances of his whole LFC career (34), and Liverpool finished 7th.

Liverpool were too defensive with Mascherano in the team, and contrary to popular belief, he did not really free up Gerrard to pay higher up the pitch; oftentimes, Gerrard played deep alongside him, and aon a few ridiculous occasions, Masch played higher than Gerrard.

If you can provide one provable example of how Mascherano made Liverpool a better team overall, then please provide it.

mizzy said...

What u should be askin Jamie is y is it that all our top players seem to want to leave liverpool, gerrad included? its high time we as liverpool fans wake up!!! haven't u noticed a trend? alonso (granted this was an error on rafa), torres, Macher, abeloa, suarez is talking bout leaving, aquailini (cant question his quality even the owner John says he is yet he was shipped out) raul meireles (who as arguably our best player last season) and now Reina?? something is wrong wit upper management, and in no way am i blaming John H as he has jus come in and knows little bout the game, its people who r controllong the soccer in the backrooms who r  bringing down the club, sad to say King Kenny included. its has become custom for us to say to our 'stars' he can go if he wants to, we r bigger than him and we can find a Replacement. The TROUBLE IS OUR 'REPLACEMENTS' in time also want to leave. so am sorry its not the players that r the problem, point the finger at people controlling the soccer, its not normal for all our stars to want to leave, ITS NOT RIGHT!!! 

mizzy said...

our ability to not score goals has nothing to do with another player going about his business, funny how u neglect to mention how many goals where scored in the 2008-09 season, where macher played right behind and along side alonso, and no pun intended but to behonest i dont think u really understand the 4-2-3-1 formation we played, because if u did u would see it was not macher who was a at fault the wide attackers with an exception of Yossi did not contribute the goals the were suppose to, everything else worked, jus ask mantud and Real and a host of other team  in 08/09 they will tell how hard that team particularly the mid was #jussaying

mizzy said...

u also forget he is playing for a team that score goals for fun, y isnt he having the same effect on barca then?, on the contrary he is actually receiving praise from his manager,could be that barca actually have proper attackers????, to me they have the right balance, what u saying of getting an attacker would have jus worked the opposite way, we would probably have scored alot of goal but lost alot of matches cause we would leaked goals, we got the balance in the mid, but where was the money to make the wide areas more strong is what u should really be askin?, and still wondering how u ignore the fact that deadly partnership between torres and stevey was the 08/09 a season where  mach  and alonso played behind stevey???, 

comebackRafa said...

Mascherrano was loyal to Rafa,he even stayed another season due to Rafas persuasion and it is  Alonso who is the traitor who left for money.When Masch saw how Rafa was treated by LFC he decided he couldnt stay,I agree with Mascherrano I dont blame him in the slightest,the club turned on Rafa so all the great players LFC had wanted to go,now look,well done Masch i wish you all the best under Rafa he turned you into the worlds greates defensive midfielder now look at us,an absolutely pathetic club with pathetic players and a pathetic whining manager.

scallyryan said...

Provable example is by ME witnessing us playing with Mascherano in the team, just because he plays 20 or 30 games in particular seasons does not reflect the season as a whole, so many different factors may have influenced those stats. He is Now at Barcelona and I have watched him contribute as a top class centre half at the BEST team on the planet EVER so the stats mean shite to me when he was at LFC as 95% of LFC fans will tell you he was top drawer for us and we have not replaced him or Alonso adequately enough even if Lucas is not too bad now!!!!! As for the money needed to be spent on attacking midfielder, LUCAS was a complete liability whilst we had Mascherano and no where near good enough to be in the 1st team so he was clearly needed. More to Central Midfielders than assists and goals and the stats mean nothing!!IMO and can be doctored to suit any argument you feel to make!

scallyryan said...

Mascherano left for Barcelona! Alonso for Real Madrid!! The best 2 moves of their career as looking at the 2 clubs they are both great sides.
When they were both at their best for LFC in Benitez' best years 2007-2009(IMO)they were best midfield partnership in Europe. Players see what's happening with clubs and get worried and selfish and you can't blame Mascherano, he loved playing for Benitez and ended up playing for clueless Hodgson and sure wanted out when Barca came calling(Who wouldnt??????)Watching LFC in preseason and throughout August under Hodgson I don't blame him for jumping ship, I bloody would of, an that's why Torres went as well. They see Teams chopping and changing and worry about the direction of the club and act selfishly.
All happenend coz Benitez wasnt allowed to make up for the mistakes he made in transfer windows and I have no doubt he would make ammends. Fergie has ripped up teams and restarted again and again because he was given time and Money and planty of money!!!

Ahmerferoz said...

Yeah too right Kanwar.
Masccherano was over rated and as you have said previsously Poulsen was under rated!
Critical realism at its best.

Jaimie K said...

If you weren't foaming at the mouth in your fevered rush to discredit me, you might have noticed that I didn't say that Mascherano was 'overrated'. In fact, I said the exact opposite.

Also, I never argued that Poulsen was underrated; I showed - with stats - Poulsen's positive impact on the team when he played, and I did that to refute the unfair criticism he was receiving for his alleged 'poor' performances.

For the record, when Poulsen played, Liverpool:

* Were unbeaten in 86% of games
* Conceded fewer goals (11 with Poulsen; 14 without)
* Only conceded a goal every 92 minutes
* Lose fewer games (2 with Poulsen; 5 without)
* Achieved more clean sheets (7 with Poulsen; 3 without)

Without Poulsen, Liverpool:

* Lost more games (45% of games compared to 14% with Poulsen)
* Conceded more goals more often (1 every 72 minutes)
* Were unbeaten in only 54% of games
* Scored fewer goals
* Achieved fewer clean sheets

http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2010/12/lfc-fans-are-totally-wrong-about.html

Morris Jeff said...

jamie!! you even showed how LFC became more defensive?? well done matey!! you say you weren't a fan?? i don't think you a fan of anyone, are you??

Jaimie K said...

Jeff - Either start making relevant points, or don't bother at all. Your views - like everyone's - are very welcome, but if all you're going to do is clog up discussion threads with pointless sniping comments, i will be forced to ban you.

James Cooper said...

It's all about opinion. I firmly believe we were a better team when we had Alonso alongside Mascherano in the middle. We were the top goalscorers in 08/09 and also had one of the best defences. He was a pivotal player for us. Stats can be very deceptive as you also have to take into account the players playing around them. For example in the games Poulsen missed for Liverpool, other players could have been missing. However it's all in the past now, we have serious problems with the players at the club now. It' anyone's guess what will happen in the summer, but if we stick with kenny I fear the player's going won't be the one's we want.

lowee78 said...

brilliant player, one of the best at holding midfield, full of beans and passion and hardly anyone could get passed him.
no one has ever replaced him. good footballer to.
top signing from raffa

Steven said...

Mizzy...
You also forgot to mention David Villa and Dani Alves almost came but Liverpool would not fund the money...
Oh and Fiorentina's Jovetic!
What a team we would have been!
Carroll? Rafa would have laughed at the thought!
Downing? Henderson? Let's be honest, they would have not been mentioned unless it was on the opposing team sheet!

ROSSO67 said...

Well with the likes of Mascherano and Alonso in the midfield Liverpool were magnificent now they are horrible i know what i would prefer.
In many team sports, great teams have had flawed characters but their on field performances far outweighed their silly acts off the field as far as value to the side.

Spc said...

If Rafa was given 110 mil in 2008...he could have added David Silva, Aquero, Dani Alves to the 2008/2009 team....Very likely we would have won the EPL!  

Spc said...

If Rafa was given 110 mil in 2008...he could have added David Silva, Aquero, Dani Alves to the 2008/2009 team....Very likely we would have won the EPL! Of course the English media and pundits may not like it as a Spanish was challenging Ferguson!!!  

mitch2u2 said...

You and your stats Jamie.. Bless

Once again your stats are a smoke screen ..

Your use of the 'draw' stats is another blatant attempt by you to minipulate stats to bolster your opinion on a player.. Those stats are indeed correct but don't tell half the story, at least not the half you want to tell.. you neglected to include the loss ratio..

In the previous two seaons before his arrival we lost 16 games

In the two seasons after his arrival we lost 6 (In two seasons !!!!.. quite remarkable by even any standards)

Clearly the team was harder to beat with him in it , surely the job of any DM !!!!! and can't be held to blame for other departments failing to convert draws into wins..

Your stat about him playing 'only' 27 games in 08/09 being the lowest of any first team regular are misleading and disingenuous,and more to the point..pointlless !!
By 'first team regular' you mean the 5 players that appeared more than him(arbeloa 29,gerrard 30,kyut 36, reina and carra 38 ea) ?? Obviously the likes of riera 24 , benni 21, toress 20, aurelilo 19 skirts 20 agger 15 etc.. didn't constitute first team regulars.. !!

With regards to Gerrard and his being freed up by mascha, the stats would back that up , previous 2 seasons before his arrival he scored 17 goals .. two season after 27 !

All those stats would point to the opposite of what your saying and your selective use of stats..

Not that I ever needed stats to see what was going on in front of my eyes..

Clearly Mascha was and is world class and anybody with half a football brain could see we were a better unit with him in our team ..

Thankyou said...

Kanwar, you're a knob!!

Gary352 said...

Considering the team right now, we could do with a player like Mascherano. 

Adam Griffin said...

Sure, a player you don't need and who doesn't want to play with us .. it's not an issue. However, Liverpool's best season in the Premier League was with Mascherano in the team. Playing him behind Alonso in a more central role with Gerrard roaming up front or on the right was the most consistent and effective Liverpool team since we last won a title. I don't think that's to be sniffed at. Mascherano was (is) very very good at what he does: break up opposition attack. 

However, when he was the man who controlled our midfield I think his shortcomings were obvious. He has an odd tendency to pass long in the air, not on the turf. It's just one thing but for me it's a reflection of what he lacks in terms of being a controlling, attacking midfielder. I totally agree that when Mascherano was leading our midfield and expected to run the build-up we were a poor and overly defensive team. It led to our worst season under Rafa. We needed a fit and proper replacement for Alonso but instead we played Mascherano with the still-developing Lucas and it failed, badly. Perhaps Aquilani could have been more had he gained fitness more quickly ... perhaps we would have been better than year if Gerrard was able to be relied on ... but overall it does reflect just how vital it is to have an effective central midfield pair that complement each other and appreciate each other's strengths. 

Chewy_87_15 said...

There may have been alot of draws but also hell of alot victories! You say we were too defensive yet we scored the most goals in ENGLISH football (all comps) in 08-09!! #Justsaying

Chewy_87_15 said...

Great response....... #ComeoutofhidingKanwar

Chewy_87_15 said...

Thats why he plays for us!

Chewy_87_15 said...

Only reason Alonso left is beacuse Benitez felt GARETH BARRY had more to offer than him.

Dont think that bad taste will ever leave my mouth!!

Chewy_87_15 said...

So what would you suggest, recall Poulsen back from as we obviously cant do with out him????

Ashfah Ngog said...

Ch Bai lu, we cant handle him well, including Torres . Look how fergie handled his players !

Jaimie K said...

Was I just focusing on 2008-9 alone? No. My example included 2007-8.

Chewy_87_15 said...

 Yes but to acheive that feat with what you have described as the  'too defensive' Mascherano shows a few flaws in your argument mate

Jaimie K said...

I take our point, and I'm not suggesting that I'm absolutely right. Overall, though, Liverpool were more defensive as a team when Mascherano arrived. It should also be noted that he only started 70% of LFC's premier league games in 2008, compared to 90% in 2009-10.

Chewy_87_15 said...

Can i also ask why you chose to respond to my post and not the one above??? Nothing to to do with the fact that your argument is blown out of the water by mitch2u2!

Jaimie K said...

Unlike you, I don't see debates about LFC as a competition.  I'm not going to challenge every single poster's opinion; sometimes, you just agree to disagree. Plus, I don't have time to respond to every single comment.

mizzy said...

Steven Lets Hope 
I. Ayre appreciated Rafa and persuades John H in the summer to bring him back, because we r jus heading in the wrong direction 

mitch2u2 said...

thanks chewy..  but clearly jamie, as with the use of his stats, is selective in his responses too.

KennyOverStevie said...

What makes you think we will get Krul? He has just signed a new contract and playing for a team which are 11 points above us.

Jay said...

It is a lot easier to pick up a 'ball winner' than a 'match winner'. I never rated Mascherano as highly as everybody else and thought that one of Benitez's biggest mistake was refusing to sell him to Barcelona when Yaya Toure (a much better player then, and now, imo) was on offer in exchange.

One of Hodgson's first major mistakes was to then refuse to sell the guy when everybody knew he was on his way out of Anfield, instead holding on until the last minute and then being forced to sell him at a loss.

John said...

I couldn't agree more!

Although... Rafa made his interest in signing Downing from 'Boro for £14m public a few years back. #justsaying

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