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3/27/2012 06:12:00 pm

Rafa Benitez finally admits: I made some 'bad signings' at Liverpool...

It is now 22 years since Liverpool last won the league title, and main main reason for this extended period of league mediocrity continues to be obvious: the abject waste of tens of millions of pounds on the wrong players. This perennial financial improvidence seemed to have reached its nadir under Rafa Benitez, but, unfortunately, it has only become worse under current manager Kenny Dalglish.

Benitez has always been slightly defensive about his transfer spending (!), but in a recent interview with Sports Illustrated, the Spaniard conceded for the first time that he'd made some bad signings, but went on to highlight how the good signings he made continue to benefit Liverpool:

"To be fair, everyone has had bad signings, but if you analyze the current squad of Liverpool -- [Pepe] Reina, [Glen] Johnson, [Daniel] Agger, [Martin] Skrtel, Lucas Leiva, [Dirk] Kuyt, Maxi -- a lot of these players that are doing really well, they were signings that we did".

The impact of the players mentioned here cannot be denied, and Benitez deserves credit for signing the likes of Agger, Skrtel, Lucas, and Kuyt, who has been directly responsible for a quarter of all Liverpool's goals since 2006. Benitez went on to express his irritation over the way people assess his transfer legacy:

"So the people that talk about [Philipp] Degen or [Andriy] Voronin who were free, how you can compare them to the signings of [Fernando] Torres and [Xabi] Alonso? Even with Torres, Alonso, [Javier] Mascherano and the money brought in, and still they talk about the other signings, the majority of which were not too expensive".

I don't think anyone has ever compared the signings of Torres and Alonso to Degen and Voronin (!) Despite Benitez's protestations, he did make a lot of poor signings, and no historical revisionism is going to change that.

Benitez does have a point though; The sales of Torres, Mascherano and Alonso brought in £100m in transfer fees, which was great for the club.

In one year, Dalglish has already spent 40% Benitez's total 6-year transfer spend, and if all of his signings were sold tomorrow, the club would probably struggle to recoup half of what Benitez recouped on Torres, Alonso and Mascherano.

Benitez BAD signings (IMO)

Josemi, Nunez, Pellegrino, Morientes, Carson, Zenden, Barragan, Gonzalez, Anderson, Kromkamp, Palletta, Aurelio, Pennant, El Zhar, Leto, Voronin, Babel, Itandje, Insua, Degen, Dossena, Cavalieri, Keane, Johnson, Aquilani, Riera, Jovanovic, Kyrgiakos.

Benitez GOOD signings

Alonso, Garcia, Reina, Sissoko, Crouch, Agger, Fowler, Bellamy, Kuyt, Arbeloa, Mascherano, Lucas, Torres, Benayoun, Skrtel, Maxi, Shelvey.

NB: By 'bad' I mean overall impact on LFC, not footballing ability.

Jaimie Kanwar


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210 Comments :

«Oldest   ‹Older   1 – 200 of 210   Newer›   Newest»
Karol said...

Johnson, Pennant, Insua..bad signings? i'm shocked.

Titi_Camara said...

oh how i used to shudder when he's send on el zhar for five minutes at the end when we'd be trying to equalise.all we need now is kenny to apologise for last summers signings.

ahmad said...

None of your 'bad' signings were actually bad because they all did a job for liverpool, not just consistently enough.

Dossena was unfortunate because he was unable to adapt to the Premier League and Aquilani was a little unlucky. How you have Glen Johnson in the list of bad signings is beyond me

Bad signing is like torres for Chelsea, or Massimo Taibi for Man Utd...or MOST of dalglish's signings!

Now they ARE bad signings

Bwoods35 said...

Benitez put together a world class first 11/12 players, if the cowboys had to give him some real cash, he would added those couple of extra world class players and we would have had our league title and be in the CL. Move KK up stairs and bring back Rafa!!!!

ahmad said...

And oh yeah...for all of rafa's 'bad signings' he turned liverpool into a consistently top 4 premier league side and one of the top 10 european sides.

not bad for a  manager you accuse of littering the side with 'bad' signings.

I guess you're just as blinkered as all the other rafa haters out there who can't seem to spew out anything but garbage about rafa

Titi_Camara said...

 dossena couldn't adapt because he was overweight and a poor player.

Roythe Red said...

What happened to the other useless signings Rafa made, not on either list.

thered_beard said...

Aurelio a bad signing? oh come on riera was good so was aquilani had a fair share of good games, you can't judge Leto, sterling, suso were his signings also. I don't now why you classify barragan, paletta, anderson, they were players who were supposed to develop and cavalieri as he never played you might as well say Doni is bad same for me, carson? he was ok for a 2nd string keeper, same with kirgiakos for a cheap defender he did ok nobody expected him to be hyypia. Johnson is quite a good player. insua was ok, he wasn't ready for 1st team, pennant did ok. When there were bad signings they were moved on as soon as so, Rafa at least he tried to rectify his mistakes, unlike others

Jaimie K said...

Aurelio: Has spent 24 months of his LFC career injured.  How is that good for LFC?  Riera - what impact did he have?  Aquilani - injured when he arrived, then struggled to find his best form.

I'm not saying that it's the players' faults per se; when i say 'bad signing' I'm referring to impact on LFC, not personal ability.

thered_beard said...

riera had a first good season,  he was quite vital in that team that was competing for the league title, so did Aurelio before he was constantly injured in 09/10 he was very good , scored some important free kicks against Man utd/ chelsea, kept ronaldo quiet. Rafa tried to find best place for Aqua on the pitch, remember when Gerrard was injured Aqua stepped up and got an assist in a won game against spurs, he got 6 assist in 12 games and 2 goals so technically he found his form maybe not the best but good form

OriginalChan said...

Most of his 'squad player' signings were of useless quality or they were made to be useless by Rafa's inability to rotate effectively and tailor his normal tactics to the rotated XI

Most of the 'first XI' signings were very good

Rafa was a excellent 'one-serious-competition-per-season' manager

Pal said...

Rafa, as much as I loved you as former LFC manager, you need to go and find any other job rather than waiting here in liverpool. All lfc fans that love you will not stop until you get a job somewhere else. Please Rafa!

BRINGBACKRAFA said...

Rafa, when you consider that he had to sell to buy did very well and when someone who can take a team that consisted of traore, biscan, mellor, pongolle, le tallec to a champions league final on 2 occasions, 1 of which is infamous and turned us from average into a consistent top 4 team. Is a genius

OriginalChan said...

Two seasons out of Rafa's reign we finished outside the top 4. So not sure what you mean by 'consistently'. That percentage rate of being in the top 4 during his reign is probably similar to the rate we have had since 1990 uptil the start of Rafa's reign. 'Consistently'? Pfffft

OriginalChan said...

For £18m, Johnson has been average at best but I guess he is English, explains the extortionate fee

Nik Gresham said...

Some signings are deemed bad,but fact remains its often how you treat players and what chances they get, also buying players at the wrong time, or for instance buyng the wrong type of player, Rafa gave Voronin game time that he didn't give Babel, which makes no sense when Voronin was free, add to that making strikers into wingers, never for instance buy injured players though I like Aquilani, he and Carroll would never be bought.  Leto could have developed into a good one and the lightweight and so Rafa never gave him a chance, we had a habit of throwing players away and also stunting their growth.  

thered_beard said...

leto never got a work permit maybe you were referring to gonzalez?

Donjovi said...

Still using soundbytes to justify your agenda, poor show.

Rafas poorest signings came on free transfers, which is a gamble that can actually work - no real, educated LFC fan would question his record, nor would they quibble that he overachieved in the league and Europe.

Simply put, the man deserves a lot more respect than he will ever receive - except from real fans of LFC....and probably
those of Valencia.

Snowraven69 said...

Johnson a bad signing? You are joking right?

OriginalChan said...

Oh right, the 'bad signings' weren't bad but somehow, under Rafa, we failed to juggle PL and CL (as genuine contenders, i.e., gone far in both) at the same time, it was either one or the other. Great squad(!)

Dossena was a dud, ergo 'bad signing'. He was hardly of Zambrotta-level when he was playing back in Serie A. He was a run-of-the-mill full/wing back in Serie A. Pointless signing, even without the knowledge of hindsight, as he didn't come with a great reputation, yet Rafa splashed the money, when he was just better off keeping Riise and focusing on other areas of the team.

Zulu said...

Saying that if the cowboys had given him money he could of done better is just not true. He spent £20 million on Keane, kept him for six months and then sold him back to Spurs at a massive loss. He spent another £20 million on Aqualani who was a good player but injury prone and not at all cut out for the English game and finally £17million on Johnson who I think is alright but not worth that sort of money. £57million on three players and then people claim he wasn't given money to spend. Kenny may not be the man to take us forward but neither is Rafa. Mourinho is available in the summer why not try for him, who knows he may be tempted.

OriginalChan said...

2 seasons out of Rafa's reign were not in the top 4, so how is that 'consistent'. Like I said above, our % record of being top 4 since 1990 til Rafa came in is probably not much worse off than the % of being top 4 under Rafa.

Donjovi said...

Aurelio, benayoun, skrtle, arbeloa, kuyt, lucas - all signed as squad players, all did/do a great job.

I remember people saying "signing players like benayoun won't win u the league" - came close though, didn't they?

Our problem now is, we have too many squad players and not enough first Xl.

OriginalChan said...

Kuyt was and is a first team player, so too Skrtel, who like Agger, picked up a few injuries. Lucas was a puppy, yes a squad player but a young promising talent back then, rather than a older player who is squad player level of talent. Context please as we are talking about Rafa's reign and Lucas was hardly a great success (understandable, as he was young) under Rafa for most of his reign. Aurelio was and is forgettable, he wasn't all that.  Yossi was decent but had plenty off-days, just like Luis Garcia. Garcia and Yossi were pants most of the time in PL (typical really as we were mediocre in relation to challenging for PL title for most of Rafa's reign as his rotated XIs were very inconsistent), although useful in CL. 

Kopiteno1 said...

Johnson wasn't a bad signing.

OriginalChan said...

Oh here we go, its the 'if anyone disagrees, you are automatically deemed as not a educated and/or not a real LFC fan'. Love these sanctimonious lot(!) 

Your opinion isn't fact, you and your ego should get over it

OriginalChan said...

Yep, 'world class' tag definitely thrown around too much

Nik Gresham said...

I meant Gonzalez was lightweight missed his name out, but i meant what I sad about Leto,  Rafa was too wary of trying the more attacking players as he was merely aimng for the safe stop teams style whch served hem well at Valencia, but it wasn't our defence that needed inhanced whenhe arrived, we stagnated under him, he was too slow in bringing the likes of Torres, Babel, Pennant  and Yossi, and even more reluctant to try them often enough which inevitably led to draws, way to many games where flair, pace and guile were needed. Rafa preferred Morientes Crouch Kuyt and Alonso none of who could travel to far with the ball.....and it is still a problem today, so called lesser teams have Sessingnons Hollets Ben Arfa, many skilled players bought for peanuts n comparison some woeful big moneys buys recently and under Rafa. 

Titi_Camara said...

sua was dreadful-no positional sense and very poor end product.

Titi_Camara said...

important free kick against utd?
we were already well ahead by then.we lost to chelsea.
i like aurelio but the examples you give are pointless as they made no impact.

Al said...

After 5 full seasons under Rafa we were the top ranked club in the Champions league above Barcelona and AC Milan. Never mind that we were a top 10 European side.  We were ranked number 1. FACT

OriginalChan said...

Aye, we were great in CL, at the expense of PL for most of the time.

Kamster said...

Rafa was a great manager, considering what he had to deal with and the resources he had.  He had to plug loads of gaps and sell to buy....  Had the two yanks given him some money and we not had prick parry in charge of signing them i believe we would have had a few more decent signings....  

Tbollix said...

No manager since Paisley had us consistently -  i.e. four years out of six, in the latter stages of the european cup. - two finals, one semi, one quarter-final. In one of the seasons you reference above where he finished outside the top four in the league - he made up for it by winning the european cup. In the other year he made it to the semis of another European commpetition. Yes,  under Rafa - Liverpool were CONSISTENTLY one of the top teams in England AND in Europe.
Your comment about our record pre-Rafa "probably" being similar - you'd be VERY VERY wrong.

Simon said...

Riise's awful og v Chelsea finally put an end to his Liverpool status

Simon said...

We missed out on Simao and Dani Alves prior to yanks because we haggled over a million or two

I guess that's why Moores sold up, just went for wrong buyers

Delonghi said...

Wasn't Keane sold back for 12 to 14 mil? I wouldn't call it a massive lost (that makes him a 6 -8 mil flop?) .... and about Aquilani lol, You say he is injury prone and is not cut out for English games, but he hasn't played much in england, so we will never know about it (thanks partially to Benitez, Hogson and Kenny for not letting him play). 

Have you noticed that most flops benitez signed are below 10 million (from Jammie's list). I would also argue that jamie's list is a bit unfair, as it includes second choice goalkeepers. As we all know, they were hardly ever given a chance. If you are gonna list expensive flops, why not list the good players that were bought for a big sum of cash? Coincidently, a lot of benitez's more expensive signings (above 10million) are on Jamie's Good signing list (I am aware that Jamie did not list all the players benitez has signed).  

OriginalChan said...

Riise was nothing special but I watch Serie A, neither was and is Dossena (the other wing back on the right hand side, Maggio, is miles better and more effective than Dossena is on the left, for Napoli.) that is for sure. Hence, pointless signing, in my view.

OriginalChan said...

Keane was, sadly, still a dud in a Liverpool shirt, regardless of how much money we recouped.

Plenty of players of out there that have been bought for less than £10m that turn out to be great as seen with Newcastle these days. No excuses for most of Rafa's less-than-£10m players being average at best. 

Delonghi said...

Lol, if the only importance of being in top 4 is Champions League (and all the benefit that the clubs has for participating in it e.g. money and reputation) then liverpool were in it 5 out of 6 times.

OriginalChan said...

From 89/90 till end of 2003/04, we finished outside of the top 4 FIVE times out of FIFTEEN. THREE of those were in the early 1990s. Not really a big difference, especially since after Souness' reign. Not much difference between 'consistency' show before Rafa came and during his reign. Sorry, cheer up.

Rafa's finishes look 'glossy, shiny and nice' because by the time he took over, CL places were given to teams who finished in top 4. Great, he won CL or reached the final but at the very very heavy expense of PL. 

ahmad said...

Yeah...only one competition per season...

2009/10
Premier League: 7th (63 points)
Europa League: Semi Final (lost to Atletico Madrid)

2008/09
Premier League: 2nd (86 points)
Champions League: Quarter Final (lost to Chelsea)

2007/08
Premier League: 4th (76 points)
Champions League: Semi-Final (lost to Chelsea)

2006/07
Premier League: 3rd (68 points)
Champions League: RUNNERS-UP (lost to AC Milan in Final)

2005/06
Premier League: 3rd (82 points)
Champions League: Last 16
FA Cup: WINNERS

2004/05:
Premier League: 5th (58 points)

Champions League: WINNERS
League Cup: RUNNERS UP

Delonghi said...

OriginalChan, I agree with you, Rafa's flops were average at best, but it wasn't the point of my reply to Zulu. Zulu said that Rafa wouldn't be able to use large sums of money properly for transfers, which I obviously with my post, disagreed with his point. 

ahmad said...

As I said...rafa turned liverpool into a consistently good premier and european side

Titi_Camara said...

david silva too apparently was one that rafa had but the money wasn't there.

ahmad said...

just admit it it OriginalChan...you're just a brainless dumbf*ck rafa hater:

2009/10
Premier League: 7th (63 points)
Europa League: Semi Final (lost to Atletico Madrid)

2008/09
Premier League: 2nd (86 points)
Champions League: Quarter Final (lost to Chelsea)

2007/08
Premier League: 4th (76 points)
Champions League: Semi-Final (lost to Chelsea)

2006/07
Premier League: 3rd (68 points)
Champions League: RUNNERS-UP (lost to AC Milan in Final)

2005/06
Premier League: 3rd (82 points)
Champions League: Last 16 (lost to Benfica)
FA Cup: WINNERS (beat West Ham in Final)

2004/05
Premier League: 5th (58 points)
Champions League: WINNERS (beat AC Milan in Final)
League Cup: RUNNERS UP (lost to Chelsea)

ahmad said...

Just admit it OriginalChan, you're just a brainless dumbf*ck rafa hater:

2009/10
Premier League: 7th (63 points)
Europa League: Semi Final (lost to Atletico Madrid)

2008/09
Premier League: 2nd (86 points)
Champions League: Quarter Final (lost to Chelsea)

2007/08
Premier League: 4th (76 points)
Champions League: Semi-Final (lost to Chelsea)

2006/07
Premier League: 3rd (68 points)
Champions League: RUNNERS-UP (lost to AC Milan in Final)

2005/06
Premier League: 3rd (82 points)
Champions League: Last 16 (lost to Benfica)
FA Cup: WINNERS (beat West Ham in Final)

2004/05
Premier League: 5th (58 points)
Champions League: WINNERS (beat AC Milan in Final)
League Cup: RUNNERS UP (lost to Chelsea)

ahmad said...

Just admit it OriginalChan, you're just a brainless dumbf*ck rafa hater

2009/10
Premier League: 7th (63 points)
Europa League: Semi Final (lost to Atletico Madrid)

2008/09
Premier League: 2nd (86 points)
Champions League: Quarter Final (lost to Chelsea)

2007/08
Premier League: 4th (76 points)
Champions League: Semi-Final (lost to Chelsea)

2006/07
Premier League: 3rd (68 points)
Champions League: RUNNERS-UP (lost to AC Milan in Final)

2005/06
Premier League: 3rd (82 points)
Champions League: Last 16 (lost to Benfica)
FA Cup: WINNERS (beat West Ham in Final)

2004/05
Premier League: 5th (58 points)
Champions League: WINNERS (beat AC Milan in Final)
League Cup: RUNNERS UP (lost to Chelsea)

ahmad said...

Just admit it OriginalChan, you're just a brainless dumbf*ck rafa hater:

2009/10
Premier League: 7th (63 points)
Europa League: Semi Final (lost to Atletico Madrid)

2008/09
Premier League: 2nd (86 points)
Champions League: Quarter Final (lost to Chelsea)

2007/08
Premier League: 4th (76 points)
Champions League: Semi-Final (lost to Chelsea)

2006/07
Premier League: 3rd (68 points)
Champions League: RUNNERS-UP (lost to AC Milan in Final)

2005/06
Premier League: 3rd (82 points)
Champions League: Last 16 (lost to Benfica)
FA Cup: WINNERS (beat West Ham in Final)

2004/05
Premier League: 5th (58 points)
Champions League: WINNERS (beat AC Milan in Final)
League Cup: RUNNERS UP (lost to Chelsea)

OriginalChan said...

From 89/90 till end of 2003/04, we finished outside of the top 4 FIVE times out of FIFTEEN. THREE of those were in the early 1990s. Not really a big difference, especially since after Souness' reign. Not much difference between 'consistency' show before Rafa came and during his reign. 

Secondly, regarding his European reign, CL was expanded by the time Rafa was in charge, i.e., top 4 finish meant CL qualification, whereas for e.g. Roy Evans didn't have such an advantage even though he got us finishes in top 4 a few times (4 times I think).

Thirdly, you reply to me where I explicitly state PL and CL, yet you mention FA Cup. Irrelevant.

Fourthly, how many points off were we behind the league winners when we won CL and reached CL final under Rafa? Answer: An embarrassing amount. Apart from one season, he didn't do much in terms of improvement in the league for us, when compared to prior to his reign.

OriginalChan said...

Apologies.

Kuxmario said...

at least under Rafa we were feared by everyone in Europe, we beat Barca, Real Madrid , Milan, Bayern Munich, Juventus, and we also won against the 'Top 4' in EPL various times. I'd give away my right arm to get back to those levels today

Red said...

Jaimie, you keep on about players impact, how about telling us about Carroll,Adam, Henderson and Downing impact, than?, bought at SCANDALOUS prices.

OriginalChan said...

One of those was down to winning Champions League right (winning CL meant CL qualification for the following season, though I think they have abolished that bonus since we did it)?

Delonghi said...

we were also top 5 most valuable FC (according to Forbes) from 2006 to even 2009 (basically since Benitez came). In 2011 Liverpool went down to 9th place. Obviously consistently getting far in Champions League was a key factor in Forbes ranking. Benitez achieved that despite having to work with the previous owners. 

OriginalChan said...

Ooh hard little internet warrior aren't you(!)

Refer to my reply to your similar post.

No need to regurgitate the same waffle.

OriginalChan said...

Refer to my reply to your similar post earlier, for a response to this.

OriginalChan said...

Yep, we were feared in CL, we were great in that competition. I don't take much positives from beating the top 4 these days because I know we will most likely mess up in the non-top 4 games. Very frustrating watching us beat big teams and just put in crappy performances against lesser teams. This has been going on for a long time, even before Rafa's time.

Red said...

You are more than likely one of those that wanted Hodgson, than KD in, now that KD has let you down, big time, you'll probably be shouting for WOY, again!.

Simon said...

We were 2-1 up, even at 3-1 a goal for United woulda been worrying

Of course it was massively important

We almost pulled that game back against Chelsea, 2-0 at half time, was it Skrtel who tried to be too smart with Anelka's cross straight after half time, attempted to shelter it out for a goal kick and Drogs sneaked in

So of course Aurelio's goal was vital in the context of chasing a 3-1 deficit from first leg

Don't just disagree out of stubbornness

Zulu said...

If it was a 6 - 8 million loss it was in 6 months my friend. Aqualani I've watched a few times and he was technically as good as any player we had, the problem with him was he doesn't like the physical stuff, many times I've seen him back out of tackles and in the Premier league you've gotta be willing to put your foot in. The point I was making is that Rafa had plenty to spend but he didn't always use it wisely.

OriginalChan said...

Nope, didn't want Hodgson and your assumption is based on very little. Loved what KK did to the side in the second half of last season. Not happy with some of the decisions he made in the summer and during the season. Frustatingly, he had it so right last season. 

Simon said...

Top 4 wasn't really relevant until CL place as a prize

thered_beard said...

important free kick with man utd it was 2-1 for us and then he scored the third meaning game over, they were down to 10 men and didn't have a chance in hell to reply, his free kick at least helped us rally against chelsea which was twice the team they are now, so yes his contributions as a left back and goals were important

thered_beard said...

yes and he was 20? 21? now he plays much better for sporting, gets into their first team, they had good games against city, eliminating them from europa cup

OriginalChan said...

No, it wasn't important, I agree (out of curiousity, did 4th place get Cup Winners Cup/UEFA Cup place?) 

In terms of league finishes, Rafa didn't improve us that much, apart from one season. The fella was saying Rafa turned us into a consistent top 4 side, which is what I was disagreeing with.

Ynwa Stryder said...

OriginalChan, why don't you just go away, and support Manchester United. Looks like you never liked Rafa even when Liverpool won the Champion League.  

Adam said...

Rafa had to sell to buy but the trouble is he could only offload stars like alonso. Some of his buys were terrible but i'd rather us have players like aquilani who when fully fit is twice the player adam is

OriginalChan said...

I did like him, especially in CL. Brilliant tactician in that competition. Great buzz being in CL, especially when we were a feared side.

At the end of the day, he had his flaws and made mistakes 

Apart from one brilliant league campaign, he didn't improve us much in the  league when compared to before his reign. So I apologise for daring to disagree with someone who implies that Rafa improved us in the league.

No manager is perfect.

Ynwa Stryder said...

Zulu and OriginalChan, every manage in the premiere has dud's for players. So what? Both are you are going on here as if only Liverpool FC has a problem. Go follow other clubs and then you'll notice all the teams go through them. Wake up! 

Red said...

CHAN....you are more than likely one of those, who wanted Hodgson, and than Kenny, now you'll probably be wanting Woy back!

OriginalChan said...

Of course every manager has bought dud players, never denied this.

This thread/article/discussion is about Rafa's so-called bad and good signings as well as generally, Rafa. 

So I apologise if I am not allowed to discuss his bad signings in this thread

Red said...

Eh? like Adam, you mean?

Red said...

You mean....Carroll,Adam, Henderson and Downing????

OriginalChan said...

See my reply to a similar post you made earlier. 

Gfyhsm said...

Aurelio a bad signing?? You what?

Something said...

Benitez started the rot in the club, finishing 7th in the league. Liverpool have only ever finished 7th 3 times in the last 47 years.

Something said...

The other time, 2005, was down to Houllier qualifying. All Benitez won other than the CL is the FA. Why on earth do people want a two trophy in six years type of manager (no premier league).

Something said...

Rafa isn't waiting for Liverpool!!! He's ready to go to Chelsea right now, but they don't want him at the moment. Sad to see fans so deluded about Rafa. It's obvious he wants a big club and if Man City or Arsenal came a calling, you wouldn't see him for dust.

Something said...

Assumptions are meaningless. I don't think a single fan wanted Hodgson. Disliking both Rafa and Hodgson is not mutually exclusive. It's time to move on now for bigger and better managers out there.

j75j said...

Wt struggled after a CL game! Hardly remember us winning games most of them were draws which left me frustrated! Winning in Europe but then struggle the following Saturday in the league!

Zulu said...

I'm aware other teams have had problems with signings but since this is a Liverpool forum I thought I'd talk about them! I think the point I was clearly making was that Rafa had money to spend but didn't always spend it wisely. I'm not a Rafa hater, he did good things at the start of his Liverpool career but he lost his way massively in his last season. His treatment of certain players was poor, players who could of done well for us was forced out of the club whilst other players who were clearly not good enough was allowed to stay. And then finally when he left he took a massive amount of money with him, at a time when we was struggling financially. Money that could of been put back into the club to strengthen the squad.

gabweb said...

I'm not going to bother going into every signing as it is clear that we can't agree if some are good or bad. But, in Benitez's defence, he really was scraping the barrel with some of those signings. Some of them were so cheap we couldn't expect too much. Although i think the free signings like Voronin were awful. Their status as 'free' probably was not reflected in the wages! Players like Josemi came in to pad out the squad. Problem was that some of Benitez's later signings were awful, and not cheap. As with this season, poor signings lead to a poor league campaign. The poor signings, like Keane and Aquilani, did for Benitez in the end and Kenny's poor signings should do for him. 40 million spent on Aquilani and Keane was horrendous business. Selling Keane, 6 months later, for 8 million less, was dreadful. Aquilani not being able to play for 6 months? Trying to get Barry, probably at Gerrard's request, to replace Alonso was a mistake. Johnson, I think, was not a bad signing, we would have got nothing from Pompey, because of their financial crisis at that time, meant that we took the player and valued him at higher than he was worth. But his versatility, playing on either flank, and the pace he brings when we attack, makes him an ok signing in my opinion.

C0mon said...

Bring back Rafa ASAP!! We need to get off Kenny's back though. YNWA means LFC supporters & players never walk alone, the last I checked Kenny's a massive Liverpool fan. He hasn't had long enough in the job to judged (fully). But Rafa is a better manager and I believe one of the top Football managers in the world. and with the backing of the Fenway Grp we'd conquer EPL & Europe. We need to move fast before he ends up somewhere else.

Guest said...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAahhhhhhhhhhh    yawn 

get a life jamie

Rich said...

Johnson a bad signing, I don't think so, and Rafa should remember that he started the rot when he sold Alonso. 

Will said...

Riise recEntly admitted and im surmising here - he'd personally gone off the boil and Rafa was justified selling him

thered_beard said...

yep and now we struggle with  or without a domestic cup game. this is what we call progress, hallo!!

Jradova said...

still better than dalglish

h8utd said...

the worst decision? trying to sell alonso and sign barry. all because rafa didn't think he was commited enough.

Mali341 said...

YYou tell him

Frouboc said...

Would take Rafa back in a heartbeat.
Love KD, but Rafa had pennys to spend really and still almost won us the title.
How in hell he got us to 2 champs league finals in 3 years with that team is bewildering.
Absolute genius and we've gone down since the day he left....Fact.
 Did have some annoying team selections I know.
KD in the 80's had no real competition for the league, had the money to outbid for the best players and already had a experienced title winning squad.....much much much easier to win in those days as KD admits.
If Kenny goes get Rafa back....tell me would come who is better?

h8utd said...

go german, joachim loe.

comebackRafa said...

Since Rafa left the club has gone into a serious probably irreversible decline.Dalglish and Hodgson are like Laurel and Hardy and have set about ruining a great institution.The club has spent £160m since Rafa left on 17 players and it still relies on Rafas bargain basement buys.How certain fans cannot see how Rafa made LFC number one ranked club in europe for over 2 years due to his unbelievable success in europe is frightening.Dalglish has spent all the money we average a point a game less than both manchester clubs,there is no way back to Rafas level ever unless we get an owner like Man City which i for one wouldnt want.Lets just acknowledge rafa as our great manager while we had him and feel privelliged he was our manager,he brought us european finals,he exorcised the ghost of Heysel by making us the best in europe again.I think we are mid table mediocrity now and we can at least look back at Rafas achievements with pride and in 20 years from now i guarantee we will all be hailing him a god.

qamar said...

Mr john w Henry you want a manager to manage lfc not a fan in kenny dalglish,please don't give this guy another 100mil bring back rafa and you won't regret it rafa Will never walk alone where are you rafaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Simon said...

Personally I believe Rafa improved us, but I am happy for you to disagree - we actually ARE entitled to our own views here..... i think :)

Houllier chose Diouf over Anelka, that was the end of him in my mind - he disgracefully chose to "discover" his own "talent" rather than fall back on using a known talent, discovered by his good friend Arsene Wenger - who he dined with regularly, purely because he was too proud

Rafa certainly would not have allowed sentiment to get in the way like that

Also, Rafa took over when we were on our knees, Moores had little money to spend - we allegedly missed out Simao and Dani Alves because of penny pinching (millions of £ worth of pennies :)

Moores signed Kuyt out of his own pocket - something which used to be out of the ordinary for an owner in the UK !!! -  realised the end was nigh and ended up selling out to wrong people. At least DIC had petrodollars one assumes

Moores must regret that move big time - he fell for the old "liverpool reds franchise will triumph in the snazzy stadium we will build" trick

Too many people do not understand the conditions Rafa worked under, and even then, some of the ones that do, ignore it

Rafa was at times too negative, 0 -0 draws to Stoke etc cost us leagues, but he'll be back to us, maybe in 10-15 years

There are too many mega rich clubs now with sugar daddies -  Malaga, PSG, Chelsea, Man City all snapping up players we once competed for

We need to get back to basics - good academy, check
- good scouting, check (Seyi Ojo, Jordan Ibe, Raheem Sterling etc)

This is a long term rebuilding plan with FPP (financial fair play) our only hope for any chance of redemption

Otherwise we will be top 6 team at best for next decade :(


As for Champ League qual, quick bit of googling got me this

1992 - 1996 One club,
1997 - 1998 Two clubs
1999 - 2001 Three clubs
2002 - present Four clubs

Not too sure about other competitions, we could google it but who cares......... bed time

 

Jaimie K said...

Decline: yes. Irreversible: definitely not.

Jaimie K said...

PS: Benitez started the decline; it didn't start just because he left.

Simon said...

Leto couldn't get a work permit, so therefore couldn't play in Premier League

Ok?

Rafa couldn't play him

He's doing amazing this year in Greece

Simon said...

For £18 million??

A little expensive, and I'm a Rafa fan

Jaimie K said...

What's your point? I've been highlighting their lack of impact all season (!) - Adam is not in the same bracket as the other three though; he's contributed goals and assists, and for the money LFC paid, his return has been acceptable.

Simon said...

Astounding insight!! I'm flabbergasted............

An out of work football manager......... would take a job....... as a football manager.......... if it was offered to him

pdd8 said...

I would really only classify 3 "BAD" signings where we spent 10m plus.

Babel (signed as potenetial recouped a fair chunk)
Keane (no defense!)
Aqualani (no defense!)

this is a generalisation but the other players are not "Top" signings they are mid market squad players and some were free, these are players gambled on coming good but didn't. (with the exception of the defenders mentioned in the good section)

Most players bought and sold under rafa , we recouped the transfer fee or made a profit.

Granted his weakness is his inability to spot, sign and get the most out of player under 10m, in the main.

some with short memories would do well to remember the booing and chastising of lucas the player and the manager for signing him (6m).

the persistance and stubborness of playing him paid off and now everyone seems to think he is our most important player.

players who are young and potential  sometimes need to be nurtured and patience shown.
we would do well to remember that with Henderson (played out of position) shelvley (villain turned best player not playing?) Carroll (Not given a solid run of games as yet).

If it takes two years  for these guys to reach lucas level they will still be 25 or under.

as fans and media we cant wait two years it has to be now. Of course I want success NOW but
I would rather see a blueprint and a plan which meant no champs league for two years but the foundations put in place see us compete at the highest level for 5yrs after that say. rather than one yr 4th next two years 5th or 6th.

sometimes instant and now isn't possible, even with half a billion.

Simon said...

Forgot about that one

Make it stop, make it stop, make it stop

Too painful

Imagine the team he would have assembled with equivalent to Abramovich money

He had massive insight into the Spanish market

He believed in Alonso, Reina, Torres, Garcia. Throw in Alves, Simao, Silva (probably 3 for £40 million) plus others in there too. Ouch, what a team we would've had

We would have been like United, pure pace and skill

Instead he had to trade in free buys (pure shite like Voronin, Degen, Jovanovic), sub £7 million players and ultimately lost his way with Keane, Aqua signings

Strangely seemed to allow Keane to fail.....

Aqua was injured.......

Abdul Qadoos said...

johnson is good signing,most of Dalglish's signing has been poor extortionate amount of money paid for mediocre squad players,nearest we came to winning the league was under Benitez,when we had Alonso,torres,masherano,at that time we lacked quality winger and left back  

red33 said...

not really bad but moderate

red33 said...

Do us a favor,hire him,you'll make us proud.

issac_hunt said...

Rafa spent approx 230m in his 6 years on about 55 players.
Jamies list of 27 flops cost 92m (or an averafe of 3.4m each)
The sales of 26 of them brought in 56m.  10 made a profit, 12 made losses, the biggest of which were Pennant 6m, Babel 3.5m, Riera 5m, Keane 4m, Babel 5m and the biggest of all Aquilani 11m.  In fairness not a bad record overall.
Jamies list of 18 hits cost 133m (or an average of 7.35m each).
10 of those were sold.  Those 10 cost 80m, and brought back in over 140m, an average profit of 6m each, the biggest of which were Alonso 20m and Torres 30m.
The other 8 who are still with the club cost just over 50m (an average of 6m apiece) and would have a reasonable market value even after all these years of about 75m combined.

Theres no denying Rafa made some majorly dodgy buys throughout his 6 years here, but the idea that the guy wasted millions is plainly untrue.  He, or the players he brought in and left behind that were subsequently sold, brought back into the club everything he spent and more.  Its such a pity he wont be around to get the benefit of his work with the academy too.

Matt said...

Lol yes you have slated them all season so u r consistent.
Totally agree with you about Adam, for 8mil what did we expect.

Paul Lightfoot said...

If only we had the backing of the owners back then things would been way diffident now he only really signed bad players back then because he was given no money at the time and try to make things work with what we never had

Zulkifli said...

Really appreciate the point Jamie is trying to make.We should really do our homework properly before we sign anybody.We must spend wisely.Houllier,Rafa and now Dalglish are all guilty of wasting a lot of moneys though I must say Dalglish by far is the worst of them all.Wenger has made some mistakes but generally he's the best buyer in the league coz he always emphasizes choosing outfield players with excellent technical abilities(always comfortable with the ball), having good pace, movement and also having good football brain.Obviously Carroll,Downing and Henderson won't fit the bill and what more at such a high premium.There are at least 20 excellent players in each position if Liverpool scouting team really does its homework.

Jeff said...

How is Johnson a bad signing and fowler a good one? Did fowler do anything useful second time round? That's sentiment. Also pennant, he may be a prick but he wasn't a deadweight player. Many times he looked our most lively and threatening player, in that period, though I admit it didn't last with him.

Gary352 said...

Dalglish's signings Adam Henderson Downing and Carroll. I would take Babel, Aquilani, Gonzales and Reira over these guys. 

Gary352 said...

 People are so deluded. Liverpool were top class under Rafa. Mascherano captain of Argentina, was seen as one of the best defensive midfield engines in the world. Alonso one of the best passers of the ball that graced the EPL. Torres struck fear into opponents and was "arguably" the best striker in the world. Lucas is now one of the best players in the squad. Carragher a CB with no skill, was a great defender in the back line (not so anymore). Gerrard was top class under Rafa. Garcia was magical, and a hidden weapon for Liverpool. He lost Owen for peanuts when he first came to Liverpool. Had Aquilani as a Alonso replacement, how many of you fans would prefer him over Adam and Henderson? Now do you really see the players Dalglish has purchased having that same impact? Of course not, Liverpool have to "change their philosophy" now don't they. They have to play like brainless idiots with huff and puff tactics hoping for a result. We payed fees that should get us world class players, but they are far from that. Rafa did all this with limited funding. He even missed out on a few signings like Malouda and Alves. The positives from Rafa outweigh the negatives to such a high degree that it is mind boggling why people can't see this.

Gary352 said...

look at the bench nowadays, how many rafa signings can you count? how many of them are made as squad players when they are good enough to be in the first team. Now thats just sad realization of what Liverpool is today. We downgraded as soon as Rafa left. 

Gary352 said...

Give Benitez that and he would do better. 

Gary352 said...

I always rated Insua. I judged him from his times with the youth Argentina squad. Hes a strong defender, and he is only improving in age. People like to slate him, but he showed progress. You can't say the same for other players in the Liverpool squad. Carroll Downing and Henderson are not making progress, and I am not talking about stats. Its their overall performance, they do the same s*** week in week out. When will these brainless brits ever learn??

Gary352 said...

for a midfield player that is decent form, that kind of form would do a lot for this season. But not only that, it was his overall skill set. He was good passing the ball and spreading it. He had that Alonso finesse about him. Defensively he might have been bad, but that's not his strength anyways. I remember one game where he was dismal, his passes were off, but the the pass selection was second to none  he just didn't have his passing boots on. Now lets compare to Adam, he can't make a pass, and his pass selection is horrendous. 

Andy said...

Johnson, Insua, Riera, Aurelio, Aquilani and Babel were not bad signings.  Johnson is a great attacking right back, I don't know why you have it in for him. Not worth £17 million, but a good buy nonetheless. Aquilani arguably had more quality than any midfielder we've had bar perhaps Gerrard, only injuries, Hodgson and Dalglish stopped him from becoming a star. Insua was still a teenager, Riera was great before his "sinking ship" comment, Aurelio is quality but is the most injured man on earth and Babel was well worth a punt considering the talent he has, even if he doesn't have the right attitude. 

So, I wouldn't say they are bad signings. Certainly a million times better than the dross Dalglish has signed. Even Keane is a quality player but that was just a bizarre situation. 

The bad signings that everyone can agree on were all cheap. I'd rather a manager takes a punt on a cheap player who turns out bad then spend £20 million on a player we all no isn't good enough.

Andy said...

Sorry, but from 2006 to 2009 we had points totals of 68, 76 and 86. In 2005 we were in the 80's as well. We also reached two CL finals, won one, and got to CL semi-final. 

No matter how you look at it, that is improvement. 

Bekim said...

Still I thhlink he was the best mngr we had for years. Massive mistake to get rid of him. I would not mind to c him back.

yahoo-X5CX25AU3ROVDAHOAWU2IX7DHI said...

You have one thing wrong there. Any player in the position is twice the player Adam is. Aquilani is five times the player Adam is!

RedHeart said...

If anyone else remember, Keane was not rafa's buy. He never wanted Keane. Owners bought Keane. 

Matt said...

dossena, aquilani, keane and babel would say different lol.

Matt said...

to his credit i read somewhere that benitez averaged 16-17 million spend each year on transfers, so at the end of the day thats not too bad?

OriginalChan said...

An off-boil, sadly, turned out to be as good as Dossena.

OriginalChan said...

Nope, it wasn't much of a improvement, compared to seasons to prior to his reign, apart from one season where Rafa got us close to the league. One or two seasons of improvement isn't good enough, especially when by the time he left, it decreased.

OriginalChan said...

Had a quick look but couldn't find anything about UEFA Cup qualification for 3rd/4th place. Never mind, its a moot point I guess.

To summarise, I don't believe Rafa improved us much in the league or turned us 'consistently' into a top 4 side. 

Agree to disagree.

OriginalChan said...

Most of them weren't that great under Rafa himself. We are not talking about now, we are talking about under his reign. 

OriginalChan said...

That was so annoying!

Leonerick said...

Bellamy (best performer so far this season)------> alienated by Rafa
Crouch (spent months on the bench when He started to deliver)--> alienated By Rafa
Riise-----> alienated by Rafa
Alonso----> kicked out from the Club by Rafa who tried to replace him with Barry, with no success in the bid to sign him....
Benayoun----> alienated by Rafa
Sissokho----> I spoke with him in Italy after Juve's game against Lazio, He said me He was furious with Rafa.
Finnan -----> He found himself out from the team in strange circustmance, and He said no explanations He's never given to him by the Manager

And don't forget Gerrard's face after Torres left the pitch at Birmingham in a crucial match for reaching CL's spot....
I think We have a problem of players mismanagement have We?

Leonerick said...

 Rafa is unenmployed at the the moment and if Chelsea really would want him, They would have no problem to contact him. Chelsea will appoint Mourinho next season. Rafa should realise the fact that only in his homeland He can comfortably find a job.

guest said...

Garcia didn't like to tackle either.  Not every player needs to be a tackler.

Jay said...

lol it's quite funny how owners are only ever responsible for dumping expensive flops onto their managers...

j75j said...

Isn't the post about about Rafa's era? Better or even less signings! Give players more then a season like Bellamy,Pennant,Reira,Gonzalez,Cisse(injured 1st season) and Keane a chance to many signings to many comings and goings which in the end weakened the squad of players. To many of the new signings were like for like or worse! Once Hypia, Alonso,Crouch,Riise(no LB) ,Arbeloa and then buying an injured Aqua no cover in the squad for the departed Alonso then for Johnson,Torres,Gerrard,Insua,Ba-bel and others with a loss of form or injury.

Ashfah Ngog said...

Chi Bai lu ! who signed Mark Gonzalez ?

Zulu said...

In the centre of midfield you do, especially when your playing with just one other central midfielder. Garcia either played on the wing or in the hole behind a striker where he could get away with it.

Sdin1 said...

Liverpool fans need to wake up, we are all having a go at Rafa. The nerve
How many bad records has Kenny broken this year?
Least wins at home ever probably ever in a season
Least amount of goals ever scored in a season
I could go on, its abt 10 records our KK has broken this year, and they are all shite.

After watching the shite pool play right now, you guys still have a go at Rafa, who wasn't supported by the owners.....U serious guys.

Forgetting how we played, we were a machine, hardly ever conceding.

Rafa made us the most feared team in Europe, Inter Milan/ Barca were scared to play us, I repeat scared, beacuse we played as a team and did not concede goals.

That was with his 2nd and even 3rd or 4th choice signings, imagine if he got his number 1 signings, like Alves and Simao etc.

Wake up you KK lovers, his excuses, his lack of tactical nous is pathetic.

Has he ever changed anything tactically to win a match - Never.

He hasnt got a clue anymore, football has developed, pls pls Rafa..come back.

My beloved club is going to shit, I struggle to watch them I really do.

Feel sorry for the likes of Carrol, Hendy, Adams, they should never have put a pool shirt on and we have a go at them, when its KK and Comolli we need to blame for buying them.

What a mess, bigger then any mess Rafa had us in.

Sdin1 said...

Believe everything the media tell you people.
How can you say jake about Rafa the way we are playing right now.
We were a machine.
Rafa pls pls your a legend in my eyes, worked wonders at Valencia and at Liverpool, never thought we would ever come 2nd in the league and win the CL, awesome.
What gives us the right to think we should finish top of the league.
We never happen again, can't see it sorry.
Arsenal, Man City, Man U, Tottenham are far superior to us now and foreseeable future.

Ochure Chujor said...

I agree Benitez made some terrible sigings but dont feel thats any differnt to the Liverpool mangers over the last 22 Years which is why we have raeley come close to challenging....

I am 24 an can easily say my best days as Liverpool fan was when Rafa was at the helm! Agree it was probaly time for change but nothing but luv for the guy!

Sdin1 said...

KK had a chance with new owners, his clearly blown it and cant see the owners sticking by him and his shit excuses. Anyone buy KK, I mean anyone fuck;'ing one....Wigan Martinez would be fucking better, they outplayed us at home. Wigan outplayed us at home lol fucking joke

Jay said...

They contributed to a relatively successful team at least. And as we keep hearing, football is a team game

Jay said...

Insua DID have a good end product - at the very least he was as good as Enrique offensively. It was defending that he had issues with.

I said it then and I'll say it again - he showed a lot more quality than Robinson or Flanagan, that everybody is getting so excited over nowadays

Jay said...

£10m shouldn't be signing a squad player. Especially when said players are little better than those cheapo players already available in the reserves. Teams like Barcelona or Madrid can afford to throw away money filling their squads with expensive reserves as their first teams are stocked full of quality players already (and they're allowed to make their own rules irt funding). Liverpool were never in such a position.

Unfortunately Dalglish has gone even further to sign £20m squad players though! :-o

Comprachio said...

Man Utd settled for that sort of manager in the 80s and look how that turned out...  

Rich said...

There are quite a few comments about the sum that Liverpool paid for Johnson. We didn't actually pay that for him as Crouch was involved with the deal. I believe that due to the financial implications behind the scenes at Portsmouth Liverpool had the hands tied! They wanted Johnson, and Portsmouth were never going to be able to pay Liverpool the balance for Crouch. Therefore Liverpool agreed a deal and wiped out that debt.
I may be wrong but that's what i believe

AlexC said...

Benitez did improve us in the league. Our average points total under Rafa was 72.1, compared to Houllier's 68. Moreover, Houllier wasn't competing against a very strong Chelsea side. If Dalglish can leave us after 6 years with an average points total of 76, that would be a marked improvement no? This year we'll almost certainly end on less than 60 points, so he'll have some catching up to do...

Akhavan said...

You would not know your ass from your elbow!!

LFC Gary said...

are you messing Jaime. How were Aurelio, Johnson, Riera or Kyrgiakos bad signings? Riera helped us to 2nd in his first season, kyrgiakos always played well when need and cost less than 2 mil, Johnson is still first team now when he is fit and Aurelio is just injury prone but still a good player.

Chan said...

Say what you like about Dossena but I will always fondly remember him for his goals in the trashing of Real Madrid and ManUre.

OriginalChan said...

Hardly a major improvement

OriginalChan said...

Like the rest of the team, pity he couldn't turn it on consistently against the non-big sides.

OriginalChan said...

Bless, another hard internet warrior(!)

OriginalChan said...

Aye, the 1980s but we are now in the 2010s. Different times.

OriginalChan said...

We didn't pay that much in cash for him, no but in terms of value we did, as Pompey-Liverpool agreed a price on Crouch at the time of Crouch's transfer. Not sure whether Pompey only paid a little bit of it or none of it. So add that leftover/full Crouch 'price' to the cash we paid for Johnson, you get a overall transfer of, apparently, £17/18m

Blackwog said...

Are you serious with the stats? do you know, that all means shit, why don't you take a look at Carrolls stats and  Hendo,s as well before they move to LFC idiot. Not to mention the players do not have outside interference unlike managers. Your stats mean shit and you talk shit. You know it's not hard to read and gather information.

Guest12 said...

 I would take some of your so called "bad" signings over some of the drivel kenny has bought

Jaimie K said...

Blackwog - Your views are always welcome here but please don't slag off fellow posters in a personal manner. Thanks (post edited)

Dave said...

Keane wasn't Rafa's choice.. didn't he want to sign Barry that season (Bullet dodged there)?  Was pretty obvious that Rafa never wanted to sign Keane - if he had wanted him he would have played him in his true position and not just shoved out on the Left like he was.

OriginalChan said...

Keane was Rafa's choice but he wanted to sign Barry first, than Keane, in that order for tactical reasons. I read this in a comment by Rafa somewhere, I'll try to find it.

OriginalChan said...

'“The plan was for Barry to play on the left and feed the ball to Robbie Keane, who would play up front with Fernando Torres,” Benitez said inThe Times.
“The blueprint had to be scrapped. The collateral damage was Keane, who signed from Tottenham Hotspur before the Barry deal had been done.
“When we wanted to sign Barry, we were sure we were signing a good player with a very good mentality and the quality to play in the Premier League.
"The priority was Barry, then Keane."

Koy said...

What u fail to see is that. It takes time to make improvements. Rafa setup the youth system where the young players are NOW coming through. Rafa was working on a long term plan. Suarez was bought because Rafa asked dalglish to scout him when Rafa was manager. If Rafa had spent that £120 or so that dalglish spent. Im sure he would've got descent players. After all he was after mata, silva, villa,alves.

Gaz said...

With the amount of money being put into Liverpool while Rafa was on charge, first under Moores, then under H+G, Rafa actually over-achieved. Had Rafa been backed in the market more often, we would have had Cristiano Ronaldo back when he was at Sporting Lisbon and Daniel Alves back when he was at Sevilla. Rafa had/has an eye for talent and had he have been backed financially in the market, we would have been consistently in the top two and would have a couple of titles. Not to mention Rafa completely overhauling a stale youth academy and bringing in Borrell from Barca

Redsforever said...

Come on la....you can defense and stick to your view but you are just a minority with weird view!!!

Felderkirk said...

Balls.

Spc said...

Reane was bought by Rick Parry this was the reason why triggered the management tussle. Alonso submitted his transfer request at the end of the transfer window that gave Rafa no choice and to sign the talented but then injured Aquilani. Rafa bought Johnson as a wing back as Johnson played as right winger at Portsmouth.  

Voland said...

It is true that Rafa was forced into a lot of wheeling-and-dealing in a context of constrained funds to build a competitive squad. Some of these players worked a treat in spite of their low cost, others less so. 

Overall however his record was excellent. Only one of the players brought in for over £10 million really flopped (Robbie Keane), while bringing in an injured Aquilani was almost certainly a strategic mistake at that point in time (but a quality player nonetheless). Players like Insua, Pennant, Riera, Dossena and Babel were moved on but without a significant economic loss, while playing positive roles in different times during their stay with Liverpool. Aurelio was surely a positive addition to the team while Rafa was around - even though he had more than his share of injuries, he was a wonderful player when he could play and came in on a free. Johnson in my view was only slightly overpriced - and the fact that he is still the first-choice England international confirms his quality, not to mention his winning contributions in several matches during and after Rafa.

Most importantly, with the exception of Keane, Rafa got the big decisions right - while also laying the basis for long-term success by rejuvenating the Academy, promoting promising young players like Kelly and Robinson, and bringing in other young talent like Shelvey, Suso and Stirling.

So, looking at the broader picture, I would suggest that Rafa did better than most managers on the transfer market - and at least as well as the other top managers of the day such as Mourinho and Ferguson. Wenger is admittedly on a league of his own in terms of having an eye for a cheap, quality transfer, however Rafa can surely hold his own with respect to the rest.

Spc said...

If your boss sack you without notice do you take compensation?

Spc said...

My conclusion is Rafa's bad signings are much better and cheaper than KK's bad signings.

Voland said...

Although the first time it turned to be of little importance as we won the CL and therefore qualified the following season as champions. In reality, Rafa only had one bad (last) season, and our owners unfortunately saw in it the opportunity to get rid of a thorn in their side. 

Voland said...

Excellent point Tbollix, why is it so hard to look at the facts ...

Spc said...

He is just a strange person always in denial mode...leave him alone!!! Don't waste your time on him.

Spc said...

In pre-season, John Henry twitted that Aquilani is the player Liverpool needs.....

Spc said...

People said the same thing on Lucas as well....

Spc said...

The total amount of money spent on Garcia and Yossi was just nearly half of the money wasted on Downing.

Spc said...

Spent 110 mil and just score 35 goals after 30 matches....KK is shit!

Spc said...

Sighhhh....without the CL prize money Liverpool can't survive under the two Americans....If you have brain how you rate a man who work hard to earn enough money to buy his own house while the other one is just given the big money to buy big house!!!

Spc said...

He didn't sell Alonso...Alonso can't resist the call from Real Madrid!!! Rafa planed to offload Alonso in 2008 when his form was poor but never want to sell him in 2009. 

dharma.dave said...

Yet again utter tripe,


Johnson, Insua, Aquilani, Zenden, Carson, Riera, Josemi, Aurelio, Ayala, Ngog, Kyrgiakos..Bad signings??? Ahh lets see, Johnson, one of the top 5 full backs in europe, englands number 1, a potential 8-10 years of service. Insua, a free transfer, big potential, had a decent start and faded only due to overuse caused by injuries. Aquilani, Quality player, regarded as one of Juventus player of the season last term, Could have come good under Rafa, its funny how everyone wished he'd stayed, yet use him when slating Rafa. Carson, cost less than 1m, sold for nearly 4m, England international, potentially had 15 years of service. Aurelio, when fit is a quality fullback, free transfer, Riera, Broke into the best ntional team on planet earth while with us. Kyrgiakos, solid enough despite the WHOPPING  £1.5m we spent on him, scoring some important goals along the way. Zenden, merely a sop gap, cost nothing in transfers, a good player. Cavalieri, quality goalkeeper, only bought as back up for Pepe. Josemi, cost a MASSIVE 2m, at a time when we needed cover for Steve finnan. Barragan, Doing well in spain, cost less than half a mil. Ayal, signed as a teenager on a free, did well in spain, big potential, Ngog, Bought for just over a million as a 19 year old, Did ok, and sold for over 4m, now showing his potential at bolton.

And wheres Skrtel in the good signings list?

Mahan said...

This article is another of those that are based purely on one individual's (ie. JK's) dim and warped view.

Johnson ? Riera ? Aquilani (never had a chance) ? Insua ? Babel ? even Kyrgiakos ??

Points to keep in mind, Jaimie.
(i) Rafa's transfer policy was based on selling first;
(ii)  Buy cheap to fill a short-term gap while awaiting more funds;
(iii) And Rafa wasn't the type of Manager to keep trust in his under-performing players even if he's the one who bought them. He wasn't the proud and stubbborn Souness, Houllier or Dalglish.

I'd love to have Aquilani and Babel back instead of anyone from Adam, Henderson, and Downing.

Johnjoe said...

they weren't important goals,we lost to chelsea so how is his goal important?
it's all in context,we lost.
 

ahmad said...

To OriginalChan:

You can use the same system to compare all the top PL managers, and you'll find Rafa comes out on top on the "£ new capital/point."

As you can see it takes more than simply money to be successful

rafa [1]
new capital: £39,100,000
sell before buy: £190,300,000
Total money for purchases: £229,400,000

Total Sales: £190,300,000
Total Purchases:  £229,400,000
Total Points Acquired: 433
£ new capital/point (ie how much did each point cost owners): £39,100,000/433 = £90,300.23
 
Kenny [2]
new capital: £115,300,000
sell before buy: 0
Total money for purchases: £115,300,000

Total Sales: £72,600,000
Total Purchases: £115,300,000
Total Points Acquired: 42+33=75
£ new capital/point (ie how much did each point cost owners): £115,300,000/75 = £1,537,333

References:
1. http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/02/benitez-the-great-money-waster/
2. http://liverpoolfc.wikia.com/wiki/Kenny_Dalglish/Transfers

ahmad said...

I have posted a reply as a new comment.

the comment is awaiting approval

OriginalChan said...

I agree, although if KK didn't mess around with the formula he found in the second half of last season, it would be closer.

OriginalChan said...

Ronaldo arrived at the Mancs before Benitez took charge at Liverpool. The Liverpool-Ronaldo story was during Houllier's time (we didn't want to break the wage scale, hence we didn't sign him, according to Houllier)

OriginalChan said...

Not fussed as a lot of people are very pro-Rafa (understandable, to a certain extent) and won't have a word said against him.

OriginalChan said...

I never said or implied it doesn't take time to make improvements. I merely disagreed with the explicit/implied notion that we improved considerably & consistently in the league under Rafa.

OriginalChan said...

Rafa wanted Keane but he wanted the club to bring in Barry first, in order to make Rafa's planned tactics involving Keane work. 

OriginalChan said...

He had two bad LEAGUE seasons, which is what we are talking about here as some people are saying/implying he improved us considerably and consistently in the league.

OriginalChan said...

.....ok. Irrelevant. 

OriginalChan said...

Never said I wanted KK over Rafa. Merely saying/implying Rafa had his flaws, throughout this thread.

Funny, your post. You got the nerve to throw in the 'brain' insult, when you come up with a stupid post like that which illustrates you can't read/interpret English properly.

OriginalChan said...

Its about what they do in a Liverpool shirt, not what they are doing now in Spain, etc.

OriginalChan said...

Irrelevant to the context of my point/argument in this thread.

OriginalChan said...

Funny stupid post again from you.

You have been 'wasting your time' by replying to my posts. 

OriginalChan said...

I couldn't give a monkeys about your reply. Got no interest in reading a reply from a neanderthal who resorts to swearing insults. Says more about you and your so-called ability to debate and general intelligence, than it does about the person it is aimed at. 

OriginalChan said...

Irrelevant

OriginalChan said...

Irrelevant to the context of the debate. A blank post would have been equally effective as what you have written as its irrelevant.

ahmad said...

ok, so we'll see how dalglish fares. He's failed to deliver the goods thusfar, ironically enough he's points/game ratio was better last season than this one

Timadog said...

Purslow's such an muppet to cause this chaos between fans.

If he had had some balls we could all be more chilled knowing that really RB couldn't have brought it back and that KK was the only option to replace him. We'll never know.

And even if RB came back now he'd need 2-3 years to set his team up again. Do we have patience?

Purslow, what an awful decision!

Red said...

OriginalChan.....You sound like a true fan, so it makes it really difficult to understand, your reasoning of backing loosers, ala KD and RH.

KD was dismissed from Newcastle and Celtic, for doing a terrible job, would he have got him the sack, otherwise??.

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