As I illustrated last week with cold, hard facts, Kenny Dalglish is doing relatively worse in the premier league than Roy Hodgson at the moment. On top of that, AVB, Rafa Benitez and Claudio Ranieri were recently sacked despite doing *better* statistically than Dalglish, so it's fair to say the King is one of the luckiest managers in Europe right now. Graeme Souness is generally regarded to be the worst Liverpool manager of the last fifty years, so how does Dalglish's league form this season compare to Souness's first full season? It surely can't be worse...can it?
Souness is regularly accused of 'destroying' Liverpool during his reign, but as the figures below show, Souness did *better* than Dalglish in his first full season in charge. Read it and weep:
Dalglish vs. Souness: First 30 Games Comparison (First Full Season)
KEY POINTS
* Despite having a ridiculously small net spend (compared to Dalglish) Souness achieved a higher win percentage, and lost far fewer games.
* Souness's home record was also superior: more wins, less draws, and more goals scored.
* At the same point in the season (30 games) under Souness, Liverpool were higher in the league, a mere 4 points off 4th, and 13 points off top spot. Under Dalglish, the club is 13 points behind Spurs in 4th, and 31 points behind Man United at the top of the table.
* Souness also achieved a higher points per league game average.
* Dalglish recently complained that his team was 'tired' as a result of extra games played in the Carling/FA Cups. Souness's team had the UEFA Cup to contend with on top of domestic cups, and still managed to do better.
* Away wins and overall goals scored are the only areas in which Dalglish has achieved better results than Souness.
Liverpool finished 6th in 1991-2 season with 64 points, and unless Liverpool win every league game until the end of this season, there is no way Dalglish is going to match Souness's points total.
The club won the FA Cup that year, but despite that, the season was still deemed to be a failure due to Liverpool's overall league position. I vividly remember the palpable sense of disappointment amongst fans over that 6th place finish.
Basically, Dalglish has spent £117m on building a team that has actually done worse than Souness's team (!) That's the brutal truth: Liverpool are no better off in the league now they were in 1992. If that isn't a sign of regression then I don't know what is.
Believe me, I take absolutely no pleasure in highlighting this stuff, but critical realism is the founding principle of this site, and I can't shy away from the truth just because I'm a fan of Dalglish.
Like today, back in 1992, there was a large group of fans who insisted that Souness should be given more time. It was only his first full season; his signings needed time to 'settle in'; it was a 'transitional period' and things would get better.
Sound familiar?
Things did not get better; Liverpool got progressively worse in the league, culminating in an 8th place finish in 1994.
Souness was sacked, but by then it was too late: Liverpool had fallen too far behind; Man United won the league for the second year in a row, and the club has been struggling to regain lost ground ever since.
If Liverpool had replaced Souness in 1992, things might have been different. Instead, the Scot's legendary status kept him in the job, and the club suffered.
Do we really want history to repeat itself?
REMINDER: Anyone hurling insults at Dalglish or any of the players will be banned. Please follow the comment policy.
Jaimie Kanwar
Souness is regularly accused of 'destroying' Liverpool during his reign, but as the figures below show, Souness did *better* than Dalglish in his first full season in charge. Read it and weep:
Dalglish vs. Souness: First 30 Games Comparison (First Full Season)
KEY POINTS
* Despite having a ridiculously small net spend (compared to Dalglish) Souness achieved a higher win percentage, and lost far fewer games.
* Souness's home record was also superior: more wins, less draws, and more goals scored.
* At the same point in the season (30 games) under Souness, Liverpool were higher in the league, a mere 4 points off 4th, and 13 points off top spot. Under Dalglish, the club is 13 points behind Spurs in 4th, and 31 points behind Man United at the top of the table.
* Souness also achieved a higher points per league game average.
* Dalglish recently complained that his team was 'tired' as a result of extra games played in the Carling/FA Cups. Souness's team had the UEFA Cup to contend with on top of domestic cups, and still managed to do better.
* Away wins and overall goals scored are the only areas in which Dalglish has achieved better results than Souness.
Liverpool finished 6th in 1991-2 season with 64 points, and unless Liverpool win every league game until the end of this season, there is no way Dalglish is going to match Souness's points total.
The club won the FA Cup that year, but despite that, the season was still deemed to be a failure due to Liverpool's overall league position. I vividly remember the palpable sense of disappointment amongst fans over that 6th place finish.
Basically, Dalglish has spent £117m on building a team that has actually done worse than Souness's team (!) That's the brutal truth: Liverpool are no better off in the league now they were in 1992. If that isn't a sign of regression then I don't know what is.
Believe me, I take absolutely no pleasure in highlighting this stuff, but critical realism is the founding principle of this site, and I can't shy away from the truth just because I'm a fan of Dalglish.
Like today, back in 1992, there was a large group of fans who insisted that Souness should be given more time. It was only his first full season; his signings needed time to 'settle in'; it was a 'transitional period' and things would get better.
Sound familiar?
Things did not get better; Liverpool got progressively worse in the league, culminating in an 8th place finish in 1994.
Souness was sacked, but by then it was too late: Liverpool had fallen too far behind; Man United won the league for the second year in a row, and the club has been struggling to regain lost ground ever since.
If Liverpool had replaced Souness in 1992, things might have been different. Instead, the Scot's legendary status kept him in the job, and the club suffered.
Do we really want history to repeat itself?
REMINDER: Anyone hurling insults at Dalglish or any of the players will be banned. Please follow the comment policy.
Jaimie Kanwar
|
SITE UPDATE: 5 May 2013
Despite the warning in March, the petty bickering between some posters persists, and the usual suspects (you know who you are) continue to fan the flames. A zero-tolerance policy is now being instituted. Anyone who insults/belittles another poster - and/or engages in personal arguments - will receive an instant 3-day ban (or longer depending on the incident). If someone attacks you, FLAG THE COMMENT and it will be dealt with. |
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«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 264 Newer› Newest»Dude chill out! ;-) Nice stats though.
the usual bile.......
the tired excuse was ridiculous from kenny.
flanagan has barely featured,carra hasn't started alot of games until the agger injury,suarez had a nice break when banned,spearing has been in and out of the side aswell.kuyt has been spending alot of time on the bench.a lame excuse
plenty of fresh legs in that squad.
your def not a liverpool supporter all you seem to do is look for negative crap
For fuck sake get beind the team and stop slag them off and dishing the dirt all the time
I support Liverpool FC, not Dalglish FC, or Gerrard FC, or Suarez FC. Anyone objective can see that everything I write looks at things from the perspective of what is best for the club, and that means if any individual gets in the way of what I (and many other fans) perceive to be best for LFC, they are fair game.
You are a Manc, we all know you are a Manc. Who gives a monkeys arse about your stats. Do you even have proper job?
Erm... in this wonderfully compiled summary and factual article think you might want to fill some blanks which unfortunately my dodgy internet connection won't allow me to, but would go along the lines of :
Before the 1991/1992 season Liverpool won the league x out of x seasons (and also won 4 European Cups, x FA Cups, x league cups (x number of which were under Dalglish's management) and were for all intensive purposes proudly the best team in England.
Dalglish on the other hand in his second reign has inherited a side that hasn't won a trophy in six years (but then won one under Dalglish!), is in the semifinal of the FA cup and has one of the most monumental building jobs in Liverpool's history (prior to the coming of Shanks).
My point - lies dam, lies and statistics - you wrote this article before you found the stats.
Long live the King.
The tiredness he is referring to is mental stress the psychological burden of having to win and remain competative.
We need fresh minded players who have no psychological burdens. That's why sterling isn't ready. If experienced proffs are coping how much more a 17 yr old with no experience.
Nah, Foolgish is useless thats a fact just people see things differently :)
Well said Jamie. I think the owners should ask Kenny to step at the end of the season and make it seem like Kenny done it himself, because many "blind" fans will cause an uproar.
What's funny is that I said something similar in LFConline and people were proper angry, calling me names, accusing me of not being a fan etc...was ridiculous. The only reason I keep going back is because I actually enjoy telling them some facts and figures.
Promote a few young ones before the season is over, win the FA cup for us and step down.
Thank you and bye bye
so we just ignore last season and what he done to turn it around i suppose we now ignore silverware we ignore the lfc way that has stood us well since the great shankly. the modern lfc fan is a disgrace to the club
G matt says you focus on the negative , in your defence thats all you can do . It's been a largely negative season , the only positive is the Carling Cup and from not qualifying for the champs league to having a very sub par squad the future is bleek at LFC . If this was any other manger then Kenny he would be gone , no argument
How does anything you've highlighted have any relevance here? Just more excuses.
Monumental building job on a par with Shankly's?! If you really believe that then you are beyond help.
Nice Stats,
Don't expect these figures to be in any National Newspaper or Radio Programme.
There is a concerted effort to keep Kenny by the media for the same reasons the stupid fans who called for him to return back as manager on a permanent basis.
I cannot see Liverpool in the Champions League until 2015, here's why.
Kenny and his friends are determined to give him another season, this media pressure could persuade JW Henry & FSG not to wield the axe.
So Kenny will survive (on a vastly reduced budget) until Xmas by which time results will not have improved.
This takes us into 2013 and his replacement will salvage something from the rest of the season some sort of mickey mouse cup like the ones we are fighting for now.
This leads us into the 2013/2014 season, where the new manager cleasr out the rubbish we bought (you know who they are).
We make progress in the 2013/2014 season and push closely for a Champions league place but just miss out we the rebuilding is still going on .
The 2014/2015 season with a new YOUNG manager who has his own players of sufficient quality with a stable owner and revenue stream.
The new Stadium is announced and we qualify for the Champions League places and start to press for a Premier League Title.
Sadly that's what I think it will take to get back to where we were under Rafael Benetiz.
Given Kenneth Dalglish another season is only prolonging the length of time it will take to get back to where we want to be IMO.
Yea..sure. Rooney, Ronaldo, Messi and co were all 17 and younger when they started.
That's what I've trying to tell people!
did kenny pay you to say that?
that's complete apologist talk.mentally tired in march from what? the stress of underperforming?
well said jamie,unfortunately there seems to be an awful lot of people who are of the opinion that kenny can and hasn't done any wrong.
i'm sure these people were right behind hodgson with unabidng faith too.
Why are my post all of a sudden being moderated ?
fucking rats go support cfc where the jokers think they can pick and choose a different manager every season. the lfc way that the likes of shankly paisley and funnily enough dalglish instilled into our great club lives on in the true lfc fans
Trying to reason with superfans is an exercise in futility; they will never accept the truth, even if it's backed up with facts and figures, and when the truth gets too hard to bear, they'll respond with insults and abuse. There's a reason why the world is so F****d up; centuries of groupthink, blind-faith and mob mentality.
John. Spot on. Souness wasn't following Hodgson and a club on the brink of administration with years of commercial neglect relative to the Premiership leaders. Kenny has been good for the club irrespective of results (yes I know they're important but we're in a period of transition). I will agree the signings have in the main been disappointing (but not as bad as Poulsen, Konchesky et al!). Also I think Kennys record as a manager buys him more time than Souness. If you want to blame anyone for our current position blam Moores and Parry who may have had the best interests of the club at heart but certainly didn't execute these in practice - they were totally incompetent. Our decline started with Souness but it continued because of those two.
we've gone backwards from last season.
maxi who was a big player under kenny has barely featured this season,shelvey was sent on loan then withdrawn and barely given any game time.flanagan and robinson have seen no action.sterling has one eye on the exit door yet we continue to persist with downing and henderson when there's other options.
yes we've won a trophy but we haven't pushed on from last seasons promise.
the signing of adam has slowed the pace of our game down and henderson is invisib;e most of the time.
Septimus - your posts are not being moderated :-) your post just got caught in the word filter, which is in place to stop spammers and trolls. Sometimes, innocuous words/combinations can trigger it. You're on the whitelist, which means all your posts automatically go live.
John - you are a FOOL to believe Kenny Dalglish would bring glory to LFC. He is CLUELESS! FACT! He is stubborn and arrogant and frankly has indeed done more harm to the club than your biased view thinks. How much more must the owners give this fool next season??? £200 000 000 ? for what? To buy more SH1TE????? Kenny Dalglish is living on his past PLAYER heroics... We love him for that. But, he needs to retire... FACT! You probably one of those fans that think the "Carling Cup" is a great trophy to win in his first season??? Benitez won the Champions League - dare to compare? At this rate, I would have Clive Woodward managethe team, at least he is intelligent enough to shut up when required. Dalglish wants to be like Ferguson... Say whatever he want s and people must just back off. He hasn't done anything
Significant yet. And fans like you who think 8th is good enough to end our season on... Are just as delusional as Dalglish.
i bet these people had no problems with facts when rafa was spouting on about 'facts'.blind faith and mob mentality is ridiculous,you can't win with these people.
Interesting but the money stats are misleading. The average money being spent on players now is far greater than the money spent on players back then. When Shearer moved to Blackburn, the transfer record was around three million pounds and now its 12 times that. Not that it doesn't matter but at first glance its very misleading
souness took over a great team kenny took over crap
And you are the radical voice of reason. When did you start supporting anyway. If it is over 20years I'd be surprised.
Fact you have to work for success barca took years to win their 1st champs league now they are red hot. in that interim time they sacked bought loads of top notch players until they revolutionised the academy. Bingo messi and co. It takes time for real long lasting success. LFC whoever is in charge will succeed I think even RH woul dhave achieved something eventually. Its in the clubs DNA to be winners. It is just about waiting the time out houllier, rafa, evans all won stuff within a period of time. We are not trophyless for ever unlike some teams. Manu waited 24years before fergie got them one PL then theyhad a bunch of outstanding youth to maintain that success. We ae doing the same at last.
if yoou think different its you that needs help look at the players we had to get rid of last year plus thones in the squad now who are past their best
reian,agger,skrtel,johnson,kelly,gerrard,kuyt,maxi,cole,meireles,torres.
not exactly crap.
konchesky was already dropped by hodgson by then.poulsen was given some game time by kenny but the bones of the current squad was there so to say kenny took over crap is a bit ridiculous.you can argue he spent 35million on 'crap'.
All those players joined teams that were at the peak of being successful tottaly different context for sterling. Coming in now could ruin him or he turns out to be a world beater. Sadly i dont think he is the latter but good nonetheless
kennys record as lfc manager stands up on its own
super fans is that someone that has different views from you
comolli spent the 35mil
I've been an LFC fan since 1982, so well over 20 years.
i have had enough of the negativity on this site. bloody hell thank god i have a season ticket and most importantly 2 spare semi final tickets. i was going to ask if anyone wanted them on here for £60 each but no way on earth. this site stinks for real supporters. On YNWA we are all looking forward to the semi finals and are all positive, we buy and sell tickets for cost but on here it seems it is the football manager internet fan. ah well who is going to the semi finals of the FA Cup?? me thats who!. Most people share tickets an actually go th game on that site. its amazing the contrast, i have had enough of the negativity, i celebrated a great win this season and i hope to do anther wembley trip after this one. unless you truly follow the team and spend money, what do you actually contribute?? nothing!!!
no we just won,t stand by and let you say what you like without reply
Perpetuating that myth is just irresponsible. I can understand blind faith but wilfully spreading falsehoods just because you can't bear the truth is not right. Do you have proof that Comolli has final say on transfers? The man himself has admitted in several interviews (all available on the LFC official site), that Dalglish has final say.
gone backward when kenny came in we were in the relegation zone
what about mcclean at sunderland,came into a team facing relegation alot worse off than what sterling is trying to break into.has had a massive impact,international recall and earned a new deal.
No. Look around - 95% of people commenting on this site have different views to me. Head over to RAWK and you'll see what a superfan is.
kenny has final say on all signings.
what have you just put us out of the fa cup
Yes, you're right. His record from 85-91, that is.
Messi played 7 times at 17.
17 games following seasonRonaldo and Rooney were more developed then Sterling. Sterling does need breaking into the team with a sensible approach has Owen found out blistering pace against youth and men is 2 different games! Owen stretching himself that extra yard cost him for the rest of his career at 19! Then the club spent the next 5 years trying to fix him with bulking him up.
jamie would it be possible for you to post something that refers to dalglish have final say on transfers because i don't want to post links on here but again the tired old blaming commoli for the signings is rearing its head.
load of bollocks the media are no friends of kennys and the majority of fans still are
been supporting lfc since the 80s.
not that i should have to justify myself.
cheers for that.
jk says this is rubbish i pointed this out as well
Now the fa cup is mickey mouse
Sure, I'll do that over the next few days: Debunking LFC Myths: Comolli has final say on transfers.
I didn't say it's rubbish; I just don't agree. Others are perfectly entitled to their opinion.
saw your post above.
it really irks that some people think shifting the blame to commoli is ok,just adds to the over the top dalglish support.
nobody ever credits commoli with getting rid of jovanovic,insua,konchesky and all the other dead wood we had floating around.
we beat fulham handsomely last year away-lost this season.
beat bolton away last season-lost embarassingly this season.
just 2 results to show we haven't really progresed.they are the games we should be winning if we want to get back into the champs league.
Was Souness sacked or made to step down?
lol possible the funniest post u have ever written jk. U know as well as anyone that stats mean nothing and besides that point you have missed out the biggest stat of them all: Trophies under souness = 0 trophies under dalglish(second reign) = 1 and with a strong possibility of another. As far as your opinion that the carling cup is, as you put it, a micky mouse cup can you answer me when this prestigious cup became so un worthy? because it certainly wasnt that way 20 years ago. infact let me tell you when it became that way it was when a certain mr wenger took over at arsenal and started playing youth sides. mr wenger disrespected this competition and as a result made fickle fans, such as yourself, believe that it was an un-important competition. this is simply not true and i believe that you are showing real disrespect to a prestigious cup competition.
AS far as our league form is concerned, ok we have been in-consistant and lets face it extremely un-lucky but the football we play is pretty and built on a long standing footballing philosiphe (sorry cant spell it). Truth is that we are only 2-3 players away from being real title contenders. Next season expectations can be higher but i think yourself and others are expecting far to much to soon. truth is that we have exceeded expectation this season in as much as we have done very well in the cups and completely changed (or reverted) our style of football to a style that has not been seen since the days of roy evans (the last of the boot room managers) and we have only 2 players who were versed in that style in stevie and carra anmd in truth they didnt have a great deal of time under it. Houllier and benitez played differant styles that were effective and i had no problem with that but i personally will always favour the pass and move style of play. i will not follow dalglish blindly but i will trust him to do his best for the club and i will certainly have faith in him. weather you choose to believe it or not progress has been made but the finished article will take time. i think it is about time that you and others stopped seeing the bad in everything and started taking some of the positives.....even one positive from you jaimie would be little more that a miracle.
Final say!! like a man about to be executed by hanging has choice do you want blindfold on or off? lots of choice there....If Kenny has so much say then wants the point for comolli coming on board?
Chill out Raz, you're going to give yourself a hernia, and stop making assertions about who I am, what I know or what I think. This is the internet don't forget. For all you know I could Ian Rush.
Oh so you can see beyond a one road arguement I'm impressed.
Question think very carefully has KK done anything positive for LFC?
What truth? because you said therefore it becomes truth and you say KK is arrogant. Whoaw
Erm.. comment was "prior to the coming of Shanks", not on a par. Anyway talking of points of relevance (or rather irrelevance) may I point you to the two variables you are assessing above!
Maybe not but you just have. That is what a supporter does they put their allegiance on the table end of anything else is what rivals do.
commoli i like a chief scout and he negotites the deals.how do you not know this?
of course he has,his first stint as manager for us was fantastic.
Were we in the CL this season?
Did Rafa gain CL football with our league position in his first season?
i think you miss the point that when you create negative press it really is not helping the club in anyway. it only helps you earn more money from all of the advertisement on your website. really you are doing nothing but using poor results for your own gain.
The premier league now is a lot harder than the league Souness managed in, With Utd, City, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea all having strong squads that have had a lot of money spent on them, we have dominated most teams this season and not got the results we have deserved and slipped too far behind in the table, as a result the league has become secondary to the cup competitions in players minds and therefore we are losing games we should be winning comfortably, may I remind you that it took Fergie 7 years to win the title and most united fans wanted him sacked after 2 and I wish they had got their way. If we sacked Kenny who do you get to replace him ? some of u deluded souls out there will be shouting Mourinho but this not a PlayStation game we are playing here
Mcclean is 23 this year.
He could be pretty useful for our LW reminds me of Adam Johnson.
fan! ha.
Dear all LFC supporters,
I am fed up like (I assume) all of you are waiting for our beloved club to lift the bloo**y premier league trophy but I am equally fed up of people asking for KD's head. Mr Kanwar I like reading your articles although many times they make me want to eat my hand (out of rage) and I understand (today) that you must earn a living out of critics however if you are a LFC supporter just like most of us (here) are don't you think that doing the bravados of Chelsk* or Inter(Milan) do make the club the laughing stock of Europe? I want KD a million times over Roy Hodgson or Souness (which I just want to remember as a player rather than a manager). Let me remind you of the "other" statistics of RH please. A match against the GODLY threated(by the FA) Man U. That vicious old bast*** launches attacks from every angle and what does then LFC manager reply? I suggest you read a book instead of looking for an answer because there isn't any!!! Then on another occasion criticizing Johnson publicly (although deserved) Those are the most prominent ones coming to my mind.
What I am trying to say here is that by sacking another coach in the space of two years wouldn't solve a thing! I think there is more stabilizing work that KD given time is more than capable of doing!
Jako
At Spurs Comolli and Ramos were sacked at the same time!
I will check out that site YNWA for mor positive contributions. Back your comment KK will do the best for LFC. He did not come to empire build he came to bring respect to the LFC name no easy feat with so many haters in the media. His success on that front is like rhe team hit and miss however what is clear LFC is on his heart I cant fault that committment one bit
and what does that have to do with lfc?
no,he just won the competition instead.
True. Still worth a shot I think. Not like we have better options
sorry wat aload of crap, stats mean nothing, only to a pundit or someone else who aint got nothing else to say or write ??!!
truth is, there is no quick fix solution, even if harry,jose or raffa came in, even with a whooping 100mill,3-4 top top players just aint gona sign this year, last year or next year probably.
how about glen hoddle and his faith healer?? lol
we need stability as a club, new stadium better squad. the top 3 for the next few years is gona be between manu,city and chelski. 4th will be open for teams like us at best.
i plan to be around for the next 30+ years and been a red for about 28, with highs and lots of lows. so wats new??
Amen to that Sir!
It 's not about knowing or not knowing it's about proving a point. He has major influence he presents the players who's to say his scouting is up to much?? To justify his roll KK has to say yes at some point to what he brings otherwise he undermines the blokes role
When Commoli first joined in Nov10 th less power then in March 11 when he was made Director of Football.
"Today's announcement is just the first step in creating a leadership group and structure designed to develop, enhance and implement our long-term philosophy of scouting, recruitment, player development and all of the other aspects necessary to build and sustain a club able to consistently compete at the highest level in European football," explained Henry.
"Damien has a proven track-record of identifying exciting young footballing talent and we are delighted that he has agreed to join Liverpool.
Question is not who okay's the buy but who is doing the scouting!
@27e239c131d315822ddfb3831d4b0602
Liverpool won the fa cup under sounness, but as a 'true kopite' you'd have known that
Alex Ferguson was given 6 years at Man Ure before success, that didn’t turn out too badly for the Mancs did it?
KD has us playing good football, most of the time, he’s already lifted one trophy with another close at hand. Given time and patience Dalglish will succeed in rebuilding LFC.
If JK had been a Manc he’s have been calling for his head as well.
We have progressed under KK and will continue to progress, patience is required, that’s all.
Mental Stress....for going to an ATM to check their latest bank balance!!!!!...BOLLOCKS Dsoe70....most of this LFC team is horribly overpaid and under performing....you`ll see real stress if we lose to Newcastle and look to drop in towards the BOTTOM 10 of the EPL!!!!NO MORE EXCUSES FROM KD,PLAYERS OR FANS....THIS IS LFC WE`RE TALKING ABOUT...RIGHT!!!!
@27e239c131d315822ddfb3831d4b0602
BTW if stats mean nothing then Liverpool have NO history and the owners are morons for giving £115M spending money to some OAP relic from the thatcherite era.
And nobody should give a f*ck that Man Utd have won more league titles than Liverpool
soory I should add "OAP relic from the thatcherite era who had been competely out of the game for more than a decade"
im one of kennys biggest fans ...but i hate to say this he seems tactically inept.....square pegs round holes ...score a goal your dropped...the worse thing though to me is that the players dont know there role...unorganised ..out of position ....thats down to the coaching
Not shocked at all
Souness dismantled a great side too soon
He disrespected Rush and Houghton by putting Mark Wright on a higher salary
Kenny inherited an average side, thanks to the good old snake oil salesmen
souness took over crap left by kenny, an ageing unhappy squad containing players like david speedie and jimmy carter etc mcmahon and whelan at the end of there careers. Souness didnt stand a chance. I love KD for how he played, I loved him for being our playermanager, I loved him and his family for the dignity he bestowed at the time of the Hillsborough Disaster. I love him now, but I cant forget that he walked out of the club saying he was finished with football and after a 3 month rest he was installed as manager of Blackburn. Liverpool FC offered him a break he needed it he was ill but he didnt take the offer and decided to manage Blackburn. KD is a living legend to all LFC fans, I dont want him sacked he knows the situation, he knows his signings havent performed (not under performed ) he is defending his squad. Come christmas 2012 lets see where we are and make decisions then. There needs to be improvementwe know it he knows it and the owners know it. No amount of slagging himor the players off will change this poor League Season so lets for F%$£$ sake get behind them lets see us beat the blue sh1te and maybe win the fa cup. it wont make up for poor PL performance but it will be a consolation
So what exactly is it about LFC that you support?
The Liverpool we support is Shankley's Liverpool
Kenny knows what that is, as does Rafa. That is why they are loved
imo this post is rubbish. how do you know results wont improve. Answer is you dont. nobody does
wat can ye do?? they deserve to have, deal with it
Arse hole....shit blog now trying to get hits for your cheap wanking website sponsors
What is the most disturbing fact of all for me is that LFC are perpetually in a state of transition. Think about it - when KD goes ( sooner rather than later, I suspect ) the new man in will need time to put it all right. The Kopites will be writing 'Don't judge him now, judge him at Xmas' and 'Don't judge him at Xmas, wait until Easter' and so on ad infinitum. A vast group of LFC supporters seem to live in permanent excuse land in which nothing is ever expected and there are always six or a dozen reasons why nothing can ever be attained. Meanwhile United just get on with the job of winning the league every year. Expecting the likes of Henderson or Adam to come good one day is just plain daft: Adam's whole season was summed up by his Wembley penalty and Henderson is just plain embarrassing. KD is dragging his terrible signings around and cannot get shut of them - ergo he's finished. But the next man in won't do much better, maybe the next man in will be Rafa in which case we won't get the Carling because he'll field a reserve side in the first round and get us knocked out. Let's face facts - sooner rather than later we'll slip to a bottom of the table outfit.
Souness took over the league champions and came 6th eighteen months later. Dalglish took over the seventh best team in the league and came seventh eighteen months later (presumably). Apples and oranges - the teams were in different places when Souness took over and Dalglish. Souness took them backwards from a winning position. Dalglish has steadied the slide and may well improve our position from here, with a cup (hopefully two) thrown in.
barnes aldrige houghton rush some crap
yes but you don,t want to give him a second chance
yes and given the chance it will happen again
don,t mention it
rafa went four years without a trophy
wat the hell is RAWK and it was you who used the term
if kenny win something its a mickey mouse cup according to some people but lfc is about winning trophys thats the truth
again look at there ages mate I am not having a pop at you I am just stating what I saw at the time. I am a true red probably one of JK s super fans if i am honest but i have given you an honest assessment imo of what happened at the time.
hpoe you have another great day out but some people will be sorry if we do win it
Left by mutual consent the club payed him all his contract lfc prided its self up till then on never sacking managers
Simon I probably disagree with everything JK writes I mean totally disagree. But JK is a true supporter he just supports in a different way to us doesnt mean he doesnt love the club. Shanklys Liverpool disappeared a long time ago probably at the same time as the boot room was demolished. KD didnt know shankly he was signed by paisley and KD would probably tell you he ran the club the KD way not the shankly way. As brilliant as Shanks was he was of a time.
i do,i've never once said i want him sacked.i just think he has made alot of poor decisions and signings.look back at any of my comments-not once have i called for his head.
Hehehe... John... Love your humour! Just devastated that the MIGHTY LFC has taken this turn and Dalglish has no clue what he is doing - FACT. I thought Clark would step up and help, but I guess he doesn't have the final call. Look... Dalglish needs to fall on his sword and say goodbye to LFC when we lift the FA Cup... At least we'll have that as a memory.
Bring Benitez/Hiddink/Rijkaard/Lowe or some tactically astute manager in who understands the modern day football and let's make us believe once again!
Yes and tear the club to bits again utd most be enjoying this
souness the player-legend, souness the manager-hopeless. not only that,he got into bed with 'the s**' and destroyed his standing with the lfc following. his involvment with the dark side aka rangers didn't help his cause in my opinion.
dont agree - he inherited englands best team - never proved himself in europe so his record is exaggerated nt a patch on paisley
Kanwar you should write for the sun, everything you write has a sensationalist headline. Souness was shit he managed to injure players with ridiculous training regimes not to mention dismantling a good team. He was so good at management he signed George weahs cousin from a video, who came on as a sub and was subbed.
I can see you now in your little den relentlessly going over stats to prove your next stupid argument. You are truly a sad man an excuse for a fan.
Superb response
Isn't Comolli in the same job at Liverpool?
What has that got to do with finishing in the top 4?
After his first season.
Europe? Hysel!
Kenny inherited the Liverpool Way which Paisley and Fagan inherited and learnt and built with Shankly! 3 titles exaggerated?When you question what King Kenny did all you are doing is questioning the whole Liverpool Way of 2 decades of a winning formula!
dont thik hes as good as paisley but he did not inherit barnes houghton bearsley or john alderige
They had just finished second in the league in 91. 2 if you like iffy signings but the core of that team were far from being past their sell by date! As Beardsley and Houghton proved! He sold younger players like Ablett and Staunton then bombed out his first signings Saunders after 1 season? Whelan was still at Anfield in 94! Dalglish had left players like Mcmanaman,Fowler and Redknapp coming through are you sure Souness didn't stand a chance? Souness admitted selling to many players to soon!
so comolli bought carroll behind kennys back, without him knowing ? is that what your implying ? show how little you know about kenny dalglish if you think he'd allow that to happen.
stop refering to kenny as the 'king' its too much like the toon army and king kev the messiah - and look how that turned out.
well said JAIMIE K, pity i see the passengers in "KENNY WE TRUST" SHIP, sinking and they still believe they can reach the shore....
good stats
he united the club and lifted its head out of the mire that was hicks and gillett , he restored our pride in the club and our sense of place in the pantheon of footballing greatness !
But that doesnt mean he gets a free pass if he gets it massively wrong like he has lately - or that a cult of kenny is more important than LFC - it means we treat him with the respect and dignity he has earned and let him decide for himself - sooner rather than later.
The numbers don't lie. Tie for a big change!
You cannot compare managers of the past with managers of today as it simply pastes an unfair & unrealistic picture.
Souness worked at a time when players were cheaper so your comparrison of expendature is flawed. He also took over a successful side with title winning experience ! Compare that to Kenny now and he's taken over a side in decline so that argument is flawed also.
Then there is many a debate about techology, fitness & a number of other descrepencys that make comparing managerial records from one decade and another a poor argument to make.
A great team is built on a mix of experience and youth. Too much of either wont get us far. If we had an out and out striker like huntellar to take the chances we have created than we would be challenging for the title and there wouldnt be so much negativity from fans. Huntellar has a proven record, but especially with suarez. If we had this partnership then we might see a better andy carrol because there would be less pressure on him being an instant success. With the exception of adam, i belive others would be in a much better place if only an experienced and proven goal scorer like huntellar was in the squad. YNWA
The comparisons you have shown are very interesting! Tell me Jamie - when KK resigned from his first appointment ,who took over the reigns ??? If it was Souness,then I would suggest that he was left with an ageing/failing squad! I have always believed that that is what KK could'n't handle,and so he resigned.Paisley had left him on his own by then! Souness was left with a mess.
You are wrong!Paisley looked after KK.The squad that KK left for Souness was going downhill fast!
Gee, Jaimie mate I'm tired of you continually making pointless comparisons like this. Yes, Dalglish appears to be receiving the benefit of the doubt from those in power at the club after a difficult year and a terrible spell at the moment. Who knows what they're thinking and what they may do if Kenny can't turn things around in this last stretch of the season.
But your obsessive comparisons don't help anyone, must take a chunk of time to compile and I personally don't get past the second paragraph before I switch off. You've said a few times that you don't want to see Dalglish prematurely fired but articles like this seem to indicate otherwise.
To quote a line from a movie: "don't dig up the past, all you'll get is dirty".
Sorry mate, I think your articles are deteriorating.
Just a few observations: 1.There's something called inflation, might want to factor it in! 2.The strength of the leauge now compared is much higher, even you would agree.
3. We're on the way to winning 2 cups and have guaranteed European football.
And onto this whole "Blame Dalglish for he has final say crap". No, ultimately, he signings were scouted, stats were analysed etc. By Comolli.
It's like a portfolio manager looking for good stocks, talking about it with the guy who's money it is, getting the ok but then blaming the guy when shit goes pearshaped, just because he o.k'd it.
Nahh, I don't feel like weeping just yet.
Im afraid the numbers do lie or at the very least mislead people into believing that comparative analysis from now to stats from two decades ago are actually worth the paper they are printed on.
A comparative analysis of statistics deals with cold hard facts but by doing so only gives you one angle of the truth !
How those stats came to being, the comparative conditions between now & 1991, the technological advancements in the game and their impact, fitness & training capabilitys & lifestyle all helped compile those stats and as such must also be taken into consideration !
what is best for the club!!?? huh...as if your writing will change something!!! take a break Jamie...
Jaimie it is not fair to compare like this. Your comparison neglects the fact how much the Premier League has advanced in the last 20 years. Back then Liverpool was king and Souness record is simply unacceptable. Now we have teams like Man C, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal and Tott all on the same level as Liverpool. Shouldn't we lose and draw more games?
Good Point Jaimie, I am pursuaded....
Souness inherited a team full of stars and sent it sliding Dalglish has picked up a team very much weaker than that Souness got yes stats do lie.
In saying this i do still believe that if Dalglish is to remain at Liverpool the recruiting must be taken from him.
This bunch is awful that he has chosen and maybe he needs to pick the type of player and get someone else to find them.
Welcome to the blame game. Jaimie is a master of it.
You can't just love a club, you love the culture of a club
Liverpool's widespread popularity obviously stems from Shankly and his disciples Paisley and Fagan. Then in turn, Kenny
Souness, for some reason, tried to tear that very culture, the heart and soul out of the club when he took over
Football goes beyond results to real fans. Would it still be the Liverpool we love if some insane petro billionaires bought the club, installed Mourinho and bought Ronaldo? Not to me it wouldn't
In a world that is totally materialistic and fake, I would just like to see Liverpool remain true to Shankly's values
The new owners have bought LFC to make buckets of cash, they recognise the obscene money available through Champion's League for one
They have exciting new financial deals in place with sponsors and new jersey manufacturers, but they are smart enough to know that the history of the club has to live on and without it we are just another franchise that plays in red
You are guessing...... Spend 20 seconds googling and you will see that many players were unnecessarily released by Souness
People who live in Liverpool and who go to the games week in / week out are superfans
Without them, and their fathers and grandfathers before them, the history and aurora of Liverpool would never have attracted outsiders like me
These fans believe that Liverpool FC is theirs, they think all the day trippers are merely a necessary evil to swell the coffers by buying every bit of tacky merchandise going
I can see their point of view, they have been fanatics for generations - it's in their blood
We could just as easily be Mancs or Leeds fans, if things were even slightly different when we were kids. That cheapens us a little........ In the eyes of superfans
jaime why please explain why my posts have been moderated off your site
Continuity is important for success. Chopping and changing again and again is not.
And by the way, Comolli decides on players. KD just has the power to veto.
And I know this because I know a person who has actually worked on accumulating knowledge on LFC and football transfers through a media company, as opposed to just having a blog and googling stats and facts for writing articles.
And another thing. Jaimie Kanwar has blocked me from posting on this site. It seems if you ask questions that Jaimie can not quite answer, he will block you. I have used no abuses, slangs etc. to insult Jaimie or players or any one, then how is it that he blocked me. It is quite possible that this comment will also be deleted and this mail will also be blocked from posting. Well, that is Jaimie Kanwar for you, "very reasonable" indeed.
Liverpool were in the second division under Shankly! He singlehandedly built them into a force. Liverpool finished second in 2008-2009, just four seasons ago. Yeah, the players we had to get rid of last season. Like Meireles and Aquilani? Then we replaced them with Adam and Henderson. Real bright move there Adrian. Players who are past their best? If you don't mind me saying, is it not mainly Benitez's signings holding this team together, and Dalglish's flops draggins us down?
Everything. Arsenal and Spurs fans are glad to be rid of him. Both Dalglish and Comolli have a lot to answer for. It's not a he said, he said business. They're both responsible for this debacle.
You'll do anything to defend Dalglish won't you! Let's be honest. They both are involved in the transfer process, so they both need to be responsible.
Yeah he did so well at Newcastle and Celtic didn't he.
He won the highest honour in European club football. Not the Mickey Mouse Cup. That victory was also a de facto entry into the Champions League the next season. Oh, and he didn't spend £110 million to do it either...
Whoever keeps blaming damo needs to get the facts straight. also, id take rafas barren years(coming v close to winning the league and a CL final) over the dross kenny has managed this season.
see below article. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9176958/Vulnerable-Liverpool-director-of-football-Damien-Comolli-must-help-Kenny-Dalglish-sign-better-players.html
Someone posted here recently that lavezzi, de jong, sissoko, mertens and armero are this summers targets, with maxi, kuyt, cole, aqua and aurelio leaving. lavezzi aside, it seems were going for the cheaper, foreign talent. its just a shame that we are not cutting our losses on the rubbish KD has bought. Rafa was much better at letting the rubbish go if things didnt work out.
Fair dos. What Kenny has spent would have bought half of the League in 1991. For the time, Souness spent a lot of money. I also agree with one of the other posters. All was NOT rosy when Souness took over. We had a lot of players who were just turning up for the wage. The squad list looked mouthwatering in hindsight, but those who were there will remember that some of those 'legends' were letting the club down badly. He let a few players go that he should have kept, and he signed some shockers againts the advice of Ronnie Moran and Roy Evans, but he signed the best rightback we've had since Phil Neal.
I think Souness was in the right place at the wrong time, maybe even in the wrong job. Personally, I think had he been a coach instead of a manager he'd have been outstanding, but I guess, Souness is too strong a personality to be happy in that role?
Kenny Dalglish is unique in footballing history for being given a ton of money to spend (£115M) having been out of the game for over a decade.
The ONLY possible reason this could have happened is because of history...too many people see him as the last link of the Shankly dynasty.
I want Rafa back because the team remains fundamentally his, and thus he is more likely to tweak it than build an entirely new one (which would once again cost a ton of money)
Not even an FA cup win in should save Dalglish. Relegated Portsmouth made the final a few years ago for crying out loud. Any team can win it
Ouch, this hurts
Tired!.. Imagine if we had been playing in Europe as well.. Pathetic excuse (IMO).
KK is rebuiling the spine of Liverpool and should be afforded 1 whole season to bed them in. Centre backs - new pairing. Centre mid - new players. Up front - new players. Our main issue has been converting, not creating or playing well.
I was not happy about quality players like Aquilani and Merelles going as it clearly meant investing playtime for Henderson. KK knows Henders ain't ready yet but he'll only be ready with playtime.
No intelligent Pool fan would have expected finishing higher than the teams above us other than Toon at start of season if any other man was in charge.
We paid too much for some but its done now. Henders could become a top player - has the skills. Caroll just needs his swagger back and Downing is quality, if not a matchwinner.
That being said, KK needs to get some colour in his 1st team squad and manage the press much better.
check your facts son, souness did not take over a great team - it was in desperate need of a revamp
Not talking Cups talking league position. The team finished 4th the season before.
Not defending any one! That is an interview with Henry talking about Commoli's position within the club when he first arrived.
Kenny most probably has the final say but Commoli is doing the scouting.
Hahaha... You're demented! If you think that Fool was not involved in earmarking and signing those USELESS 3... you're really in cuckoo land - with Dalglish himself!!!!
If he didn't want them, DON'T PLAY THEM - Maxi sitting on the bench while Henderson enjoys game after game???? Bellamy on the bench while Carrol gets on ahead of him????? Downing - don't even ask!!!!!!!
What price Newcastle whip our sorry asses tomorrow????? We have NO tactical play - NONE!!!!!! Dalglish wants the SH1TE he bought to get game time so that he can try to justify his rubbish... He sacrifices the points for his pig headed decision making and ego!!!!!!!
I pray that we whip Newcastle, but I also know who's putting the team sheet together... So my prayers will go to waste... Once again!
My dog is friends with John Henry's cat and he told me that Comolli buys the players... WTF????? Seriously dude????
Dalglish sets out a strategy for the team and TELLS the club what players he wants - according to his plans! The club approves the budget and Comolli takes DALGLISH's list and goes shopping!!!!!
STOP BLAMING EVERYBODY ELSE BUT DALGLISH!!!!!!!
PS. Stop talking nonsense and JK won't block your comments! Sour grapes???
First Six Years of Alex Ferguson's Tenure at United
Alex Ferguson was appointed manager of Manchester United in November 1986.
1986-87 United finished 11th in the league
1987-88 United finished 2nd in the league (9 points behind Liverpool)
1988-89 United finished 11th in the league
1989-90 United finished just outside the relegation zone
1990-91 United finished 6th in the league (their league form was good but inconsistent)
1991-92 United finished runners up to Leeds (A shortage of goals and
being held to draws by teams they had been expected to beat in the
second half of the campaign had proved to be the undoing of a United
side who had performed so well in the first half of the season.) 1992-93 United win the title
Kenny Dalglish 15 months 1 Carling Cup and F.A. Cup semi Final to play.
For the people saying sack him read the above! Patience needed.
What has overpay got to do with performance? If we paid them 100 grand less a week by your reconing they would play better. Good management strategy that has clearlybeen whats wrong this season. Not!!!!
Lets attract big ballers to LFC and tell them we give peanuts because that is what top clubs do nowadays. You are so clueless its not funny
Yeah behind is back with his hands tied that is exactly what I'm saying. Wake up I know it was late posting!!!!!!!!! if the choice is between a or b there isnt a wide selection 50:50 chance of selecting the right thing. However if the optons were wider then KK has some choice there lies the issue. There are not alot of ballers avaible to create a realistic choice menu of players therefore it is more a gamble to buy than stick to what you already know. Change manager now you gamble with new signings as well as condemn a fear number of the old. What we need is stability not major upheaval right??
First Six Years of Alex Ferguson's Tenure at United
Alex Ferguson was appointed manager of Manchester United in November 1986.
1986-87 United finished 11th in the league
1987-88 United finished 2nd in the league (9 points behind Liverpool)
1988-89 United finished 11th in the league
1989-90 United finished just outside the relegation zone
1990-91 United finished 6th in the league (their league form was good but inconsistent)
1991-92 United finished runners up to Leeds (A shortage of goals and
being held to draws by teams they had been expected to beat in the
second half of the campaign had proved to be the undoing of a United
side who had performed so well in the first half of the season.) 1992-93 United win the title
Kenny Dalglish 15 months 1 Carling Cup and F.A. Cup semi Final to play.
For the people saying sack him read the above! Patience needed.
couldnt be clearly expect manure spent shedloads and had great youth are LFC committed to that??
Support the team you prick.
YOU YOUNG DUDES NEED TO SEE THE BIG PICTURE, THE WANKER FAILED TO MENTION THE DIRE DEFENSIVE TRIPE WE, AS TRUE REDS, HAD TO SUFFER UNDER SOUNESS, WE ALL KNOW ABOUT DAMN STATISTICS, I WOULD GIVE MONEY NOT TO SUFFER THAT CRAP AGAIN !!!!!!
I WAS THERE , AND IT WAS CRAP ....
oh and wanker , we ALL know where your allegiance lies , your pathetic attempts at censorship do give your ulterior motive creedance is as bright as the ole rednose !!!!!!!!!
censorship eh wanker !? sad sad sad sad, but sooo manc !
anyone else sure this person is REALLY a true RED
get a grip history and stats are to completly differant things i admit i was wrong about the trophies under souness but the things you are writing are just childish....seriously get a grip
censorship THE TOOL OF TOOLS
STATISTICS the tool of the dammed,the weapon of the disenfranchised,the defence of the indefensible, and the proof of the ignorant
you not like the truth jimbo ???????
nah , we needed a rebuild fella.
i did say more or less the same , but wanker didnt like it!
eah,but that spurs under completely different people.that would be like mentioning celtic and newcastle in relation to kenny.we're in the here and now at lfc.
your right the numbers CANT lie, only compilers , deseminatores and liars can !?
your right numbers (or letters) cant lie, writers can however
he dont KNOW the truth , never mind like it !?
another non red
dear oh dear jimbo , do you have the mental capability to reason ? or do you NEED statistics to show your ignorance and contempt for scousers ?
so long as your NOT constructive eh jimbo ?
ynwa
If you troll the site with any further sniping comments you will be banned.
Sent from Samsung Galaxy Note
-------- Original message --------
Subject: [liverpoolkop] Re: Dalglish vs. Souness: League form comparison. Liverpool FC | Liverpool-Kop.com
rawk = THE RED AND WHITE KOP,
RAWK = RED AND WHITE KOP
really ?????
ANOTHER NON RED
numbers cant lie , authors however can and do !
history is built up from stats eg 5 European Cups, 18 league titles etc etc.
You can't pick and choose your stats simply because the stats jaimie offers make for uncomfortable reading
who cares about the other end of the 62 ? no TRUE red that's for sure
Kenny is the best. That's why he wanted the job. So as the best he should have guided the team to the top by now
numbers cant lie , authors however can and do
YNWA
and if kenny isn't the best, what was the basis upon which he was given the job and £115M to spend?
You don't bring some relic back to life simply because in a past life he a very good manager
BUT YOU DO SIR , jimbo needs to know how to grate you, as he knows , history and loyalty mean nowt at the other end of the 62
but you do sir , its the only gauge jimbo has to grate you
95% eh , numbers and statistics ?????
95% eh ! numbers and statistics...... wonder what that means ..... doh !
PROVE it ! simple
Agreed, and no one else has to stay competitive and try to win all season, do they? Total apologist nonsense
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