30 Mar 2012

Prepare to be shocked: The *truth* about LFC that fans don't want to face...

As I illustrated last week with cold, hard facts, Kenny Dalglish is doing relatively worse in the premier league than Roy Hodgson at the moment. On top of that, AVB, Rafa Benitez and Claudio Ranieri were recently sacked despite doing *better* statistically than Dalglish, so it's fair to say the King is one of the luckiest managers in Europe right now. Graeme Souness is generally regarded to be the worst Liverpool manager of the last fifty years, so how does Dalglish's league form this season compare to Souness's first full season? It surely can't be worse...can it?

Souness is regularly accused of 'destroying' Liverpool during his reign, but as the figures below show, Souness did *better* than Dalglish in his first full season in charge. Read it and weep:

Dalglish vs. Souness: First 30 Games Comparison (First Full Season)

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KEY POINTS

* Despite having a ridiculously small net spend (compared to Dalglish) Souness achieved a higher win percentage, and lost far fewer games.

* Souness's home record was also superior: more wins, less draws, and more goals scored.

* At the same point in the season (30 games) under Souness, Liverpool were higher in the league, a mere 4 points off 4th, and 13 points off top spot. Under Dalglish, the club is 13 points behind Spurs in 4th, and 31 points behind Man United at the top of the table.

* Souness also achieved a higher points per league game average.

* Dalglish recently complained that his team was 'tired' as a result of extra games played in the Carling/FA Cups. Souness's team had the UEFA Cup to contend with on top of domestic cups, and still managed to do better.

* Away wins and overall goals scored are the only areas in which Dalglish has achieved better results than Souness.

Liverpool finished 6th in 1991-2 season with 64 points, and unless Liverpool win every league game until the end of this season, there is no way Dalglish is going to match Souness's points total.

The club won the FA Cup that year, but despite that, the season was still deemed to be a failure due to Liverpool's overall league position. I vividly remember the palpable sense of disappointment amongst fans over that 6th place finish.

Basically, Dalglish has spent £117m on building a team that has actually done worse than Souness's team (!) That's the brutal truth: Liverpool are no better off in the league now they were in 1992. If that isn't a sign of regression then I don't know what is.

Believe me, I take absolutely no pleasure in highlighting this stuff, but critical realism is the founding principle of this site, and I can't shy away from the truth just because I'm a fan of Dalglish.

Like today, back in 1992, there was a large group of fans who insisted that Souness should be given more time. It was only his first full season; his signings needed time to 'settle in'; it was a 'transitional period' and things would get better.

Sound familiar?

Things did not get better; Liverpool got progressively worse in the league, culminating in an 8th place finish in 1994.

Souness was sacked, but by then it was too late: Liverpool had fallen too far behind; Man United won the league for the second year in a row, and the club has been struggling to regain lost ground ever since.

If Liverpool had replaced Souness in 1992, things might have been different. Instead, the Scot's legendary status kept him in the job, and the club suffered.

Do we really want history to repeat itself?

REMINDER: Anyone hurling insults at Dalglish or any of the players will be banned. Please follow the comment policy.

Jaimie Kanwar


264 comments:

  1. Nonsense. We've attacted small ballers.

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  2. Because this person has shown they know nothing about football time and again.

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  3. Well said, we are almost on the rocks and they are so busy looking through their rose tinted periscopes that they can't see them! Sad.

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  4. Yeah, and look at the ones we bought to replace them, nearly all average.

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  5. What have you seen, so far, that makes you say that? You still haven't answered.

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  6. and they finished higher in the league than we will this year. And the premier league was stronger than the other leagues in those days.

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  7. So if the club appoint coco the clown as manager, will you say that continuity is required? Continuity can be good or bad, it depends on the circumstances. Spending money to be on terms with Sunderland, Everton and Swansea is not a position that demands continuity.

    If anyone can say how the team will make up the ground required, then fine. But I've not seen one argument that explains how we will catch the teams above us, or even stay in front of the teams around us. There are a lot of teams who are showing real signs of improvement, contrary to what the apologists think, what are we going to do simply to stay ahead of those clubs, pray to the shrine of King Kenny the messiah? That's what a lot of supporters want to resort to.

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  8. Different times, football was a different sport then. Like Dalglish, some people cannot see that times have changed from those days, when teams like Southampton, Watford, Ipswich, Norwich, could put a title bid in. There's no comparison.

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  9. Agree. We need to calm down.

    Souness took a title-winning team and managed to destroy it.

    Dalglish took a relegation-battling team and managed to revive it straight after.

    Souness, like Hodson, has never had a track record of credible success in a top league; Dalglish has done it with two teams.

    Last season, Dalglish showed he can compete at the highest level; ulike, Souness and Hodson.  Give him an extra season or two; I hope Dalglish can deliver.

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  10. Sorry to say kenny needs to go bring back rafa he would of won league with owners who back him

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  11. No one complained about being tired when we won everything in the seventies and eighties when we where only allowed one substitute and played 70 plus games a year.Our problems have been well documented ( more creative wingers, midfielders etc ) the list goes on. Yes the game is vastly different now to back then, but we have never moved with the times whilst everyone else has.We cannot live purely on past glories because we are Liverpool, all the lesser teams have caught up to us for example Wigan last week.Things called Desire,Heart and  Pride in the shirt are what count, people can talk all they like but if some team called Wigan who only a few years ago were only renowned for playing Rugby can beat us at home that means we need to get off our asses and play for gods sake.

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  12. I can recall at the beginning of season where i was telling every 1 dont sell aqualani and mereieles and dont pin ur hopes on overrated british players but i got a lot of stick but anyway u cant compare rafa and dalglish Rfa was A master tactician and dalglish is just a man manager i'll take Rafa back anyday

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  13. Theycallmemrburt3:09 pm, March 31, 2012

    Jamie, 100% agree.  Just to add, the club will do well never to employ a 'legend' as manager again.  They're impossible to get rid of. 

    For so long now a large section of our fans of have been taken hostage by various 'legendary status' within our club.  This stockholm Syndrome is causing divisions right through the club. 

    The root of our problem is the 'Liverpool way'.   In its glory days 'The Liverpool way' stood for something, notably community, justice and for want of a better word 'soul'.  In today's game business has no 'soul'.  So either we catch up with the times and accept that romance and football no longer mix or we stand still embrace 'The Liverpool way' and give King Kenny all the time he needs to be Souness, the second coming.

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  14. Theycallmemrburt3:11 pm, March 31, 2012

    Tell that to Real Madrid.  24 managers in 20 years or so and a bag full of titles.

    No...what breeds success is the right man at the helm at the right time.

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  15. based on this argument Hodgson should still be in charge and no one should be complaining about it. But that didnt happen did it? Hypocrisy of our fanbase is unbelievable at times.

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  16. Ha! "I know a person..."  -

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  17. Lets not forget in 1990 we won the league, Souness inherited a very strong squad and a potentially title winning team and he ballsed it up. Kenny has inherited a squad that had finished 7th two seasons on the spin and spent the vast majority of last season in the bottom half of the table. Getting Liverpool back in contention will take a long time and we need a long term manager, and for me Kenny is that man!! 

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  18. There is no point sacking him now firstly the damage has already been done and secondly just incase we can manage to bag the FA cup,but we should start looking for a world class manager like Mourinho and sack Kenny by the end of the season. The new manager can get time to sort out the team he wants to play and also get enough time to sign new players in the summer .Kenny has been a legendary figure at the club but as we all say no one is bigger than the club and if changes are needed for the good of the club then so be it !

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  19. so why was Hodgson not given time?

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  20. Time to get real guys,the squad kd took over wasn't that bad.Dalglish got rid of meireles and torres and aquilani and joe cole these are all inticate players with skill and brains to unlock defenses but these players knew what his plans were and therefore jumped ship.Imagine kd explaining to torres im buying charlie adam to beef up our first team squad, erm no thanks im off to chelsea,kd only did well when he took over because of the players at his disposal,but this season first team starters adam downing henderson carroll none have performed none look like performing absolute garbage these players wouldn't get anywhere near the top four clubs sorry not to mention tottenham.KD needs to wake up from his love affair and time to dump what he bought in and restore some class in himself and the squad we are only 4 players short of challenging again and they are not the ones kd bought GET RID OF KENNY DALGLISH AND THE KD POSSE AND BRING BACK RAFA BENITEZ sounds far fetched but so did lfc being the top team in europe a few seasons back THE ARCHITECT RAFA BENITEZ

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  21. on a blogging website how do you propose any poster proves anything? Not very bright are you son

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  22. LFC are on the rocks what dumb a!&se kinda comment is that. What evidence do you have of that? league position? the way we play? results?

    This aint Portsmouth you know swaying from one extreme to the next. LFC put in a performance. Take CL 2005 I loved it that we won but in that competition we were pants in so many games yet they found a will to win.  That's what makes this team exceptional can they win despite being pants.  As KK says wait to the end of the season that is when this competition ends, wait til FA cup comes and goes then assess.  It's the end that matters not the journey getting there.  Wait till summer transfer comes and goes then judge.  On last seasons form we did well from when kenny came in, no cups to talk of so we were poor in that respect, summer transfer we did OK.........now we see the fruit of the effort and build again. You should be worried if we cant build again now with no debt looming we can do that. We need to improve in the summer and get a winning momentum again befor eseason ends oh yes win the FA cup that would be a good season summer to summer.  Stop getting hung up abt PL and winning it that is something you build towards over 3yrs look at chelski, manc, manuire there was a lull befor ethey hit jackpot   

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  23. good to to see someone speak sense come back rafa

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  24. He refreshed with those players, but what challanges did he face? Did he face the late 80s Milan team? Or other European giants? I know it is not personally his fault that English teams were banned but Kenny does not have the same pedigree as other managers out there - and certainly not of Bob Paisley - like I said his managerial record is exaggerated - fine domestically he did well (with the help of Paisley) but did not prove himself amongst the best of the best.

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  25. He should never have been appointed past the end of last season. Idols should be seen and not heard.
    We won't win the FA Cup this season so he won't have the opportunity to go out on a high, but because we all love the man so much and because he doesn't deserve this kick to his dignity, the best thing that could happen would be for Kenny to back down at the end of this season. As I said, he shouldn't be there in the first place.

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  26. Mate seriously what do you actually know about the club? 1985 Joe F was in charge of Liverpool.. he got us to the final ... Not Kenny! Like I said there are managers that have proved themselves domestically and in Europe and they are of the highest calibre - Kenny has never been in that bracket. Simple like it or not.

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  27. At least we might win then.If you think the culture of the club is more important than winning than you are the reason we haven't won a league title for the last 21 years……oops forgot………22 now

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  28. Really well said Simon. Let's stand firm.  We have a unique history that lives in Dalglish. Rome was not built (or rebuilt) in a day.

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  29. I didn't mean Hysel that way!!!!!!!! I meant the reason why Kenny never managed Liverpool in Europe!!!!!

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  30. well said redredman couldnt put it better myself true fan 

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  31. you are negative and lets not forget this is a man who defended the tom and george show to the hilt, attacked rafa benitez constantly and if theres anything negative going around thats all you seem to write on here. you are a mug of epic proportions and after you were left with egg on your face for saying the yanks werent loading the club with debt and how amazing tom n george are you then disappeared for a while. wish you would do the same again. 

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  32. kenny need to be sacked lets face it poor selctions time afetr time, contunuial chnaging or temas and formation, drops players who play well somtime like caroll plays well dropped next game. SHIT TRANSFER OF ALL TIME!!! loves this birtish crap. everyone think he doing well becuase he took a shit tem made it better. HE HAS LESS PoINT THAN HODGSON FFS. he did well last year been shiut this year.

    he needs to go frankly everything he has done nothing has come off focused 100% of the carling cup did not guce a shit about league. now compalign about this 'tiredness' ...what happens next year when we in europe as well what will he do not play in any cups apart from leaueg ...thats ofcourse after he sepnds anothher 100 MILLION ON CRAP.

    won the carling cup. GREAT. now dont fuk up in the luague and point the the trpuhy as progress WHY THE FUK HAS TEAM PREVIUOS EVERYYEAR WON THROHIES AND STILL DONE GOOD IN THE LUAGUE

    champions luague is a must MILES OFF IT sorry got to go


    yes hes a legend does not give him super poweers to be ummune and be the greatest manger ever frankly he has been rubbish.

    what happnes if we turn into mid table team (hendoson, carroll, adam, downing) mid table players gerrard going soon...been away from champions luague 3 years which wold class player is really going to join,....will he still be a LEGEND ...FUK WILL HE ...WE WILL NEVER WIN LUAGUE AGAIN OR FINSH CHAMIPNS LAUGE ..



    regualar mid table? team in futurw with kenyy ..piss off.. Leave

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  33. Ah this old chestnut. 

    Different times.

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  34. look at our goalie,hes shite ,he don't move off his line give doni a go and you will see the turn around 

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  35. Keep hoping Alex, ........that KD does NOT waste another £100 million!

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  36. read souness book mate

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  37. Closer to the bottom of the league than we are to the top of the league.

    What a horrible feeling.

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  38. Ah here we go, scapegoat time.

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  39. When a person says 'I know a person....', you know its downhill from there

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  40. On the basis of our form in the second half of last season, an intelligent person would realize, in that form, in the following season, we should be getting 4th place.

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  41. Instead of post after post of just nonsense, why don't you constructively debate about the article, instead of the childish 'jimbo' nonsense u come out with.

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  42. Dsoe70.....YOU really need to have a REALTY CHECK!

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  43. Simple Simon.........Are you really trying, to compare KK and Rafa, tactical knowledge?, we were Europe No;1 under Rafa, KK is a very long, long way of getting anywhere near that!!!.

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  44. Hmm.. Whom am I using as a scapegoat? 


    Haha, I just read one of your comments, saying how, when someone talked of AF first few seasons, you said "different times". Surely that means you wholly disagree with this "article", surely? 

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  45. Don't often agree with your views, Jamie, but on this occasion you're SPOT ON!

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  46. He has been given a second chance.....and he BLEW it, along with his obcene waste of LFC funds, on overated and totally overpriced players.

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  47. Can anyone tell me why, all of a sudden Kenny has become King in 2012?, is it for having the worst home record, since 1953?, for one, do I need to go on??.

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  48. Ok than Dsoe70, SHOW ME YOUR TABLE, and I will.....duh duh!!

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  49. Help me see the light O Great One

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  50. Not going to happen

    Had enough of ghost writers interpreting footballers

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  51. 'Souness was left a poor team'!! ha ha. Oh my god, did people even watch the game. Souness shipped out nearly every player that was apart of a good side by 1992. Souness threw pies at players and hot tea. the man was a nutter as a manger, but still a legend for the service he gave liverpool as a player.

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  52. .

    Point well made!

    The gap between United and Us has grown ever more each season. Now, it seems we are at a level crossing. 

    United are considerably weaker than in other seasons; Granted, they are still on course to win the league.

    But this is our chance...

    If taken, it could lead on to great things, missed, and we'll spend our days wallowing in the shallows....
     

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  53. __

    The club is more on its knees now than ever before.Never have i seen a squad so clueless as to what to do with the ball!No idea what attack is, just aimless passing and void of killer instinct. Even with the ball upfront, every player aside from Suarez wants to pass the ball to someone else to rid themselves of the responsibility.Its shameful to watch this Liverpool team.FSG & NESV, pull your finger out and rebuild a squad with a manager set to take the helm for years to come.Jose Mourinho is the only person that has the credentials to restore Liverpool to what it so long ago was!
    __

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  54. Bbbbjbuhbiuaz20074:00 pm, April 01, 2012

    Kenny Dalglish's managerial career collapsed at Celtic in 2000.  He should have simply accepted it and quit football management after that.

    I can't imagine what he is trying to prove

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  55. Kenny Dalglish's managerial career collapsed at Celtic in 2000. He should have simply accepted it and quit football management after that.

    I can't imagine what he is trying to prove

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  56. Clear out the following players:
    Reina
    Enrique
    Henderson
    Adam
    Shelvey
    Spearing
    Caroll
    Kuyt
    Downing

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  57. why not simply clear out Dalglish and Commoli?

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  58. I saw the game against Newcastle. Dalglish has already run out of ideas.

    My concern is Liverpool facing a relegation battle...which would be a very sad end to Dalglish's managerial career.

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  59. What can I say? I'm sick too death of the situation at my beloved club. Part of me is saying give Kenny more time. I don't know anymore. It's sad that there's always an excuse when we've played poorly. Suarez had a terrible game today and I'm sorry, but, at least Andy was trying too give it a go. Who does he substitue? Andy of course. He should have made changes a lot sooner. When we went down 2-0, thats when the changes should have been made. We had no creativity, other than Stevie and Craig and that disappeared half way through the second half. I'm no expert, but, anybody could have seen that. I live in Canada and the area I live in, is full of United supporters. I'm sick of the constant rollicking, I'm getting from them. I'm always saying, WAIT TIL NEXT YEAR. How many years has it been? Anyway, I hope we can somehow salvage a bit of pride, for the rest of the year, but the way things are going, I REALLY DON'T KNOW!!!!!!.................................Steve

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  60. Dsoe70....In your case, that would near impossible!.

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  61. There's no 'e' in Shankly !

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