2/05/2012 02:10:00 pm

Lawro claims: Unseen Terry-Ferdinand footage exists, and it's "very damning..."

The decision to strip Chelsea's John Terry of the England captaincy has polarised opinion across the football world, and many fair-minded people will be concerned by the FA's apparent failure to observe the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty'. On Friday, Liverpool legend Steve Nicol labelled the FA's decision as 'stupid', but his former team-mate Mark Lawrenson claims there may be more to the situation than meets the eye.

Speaking on Today FM (@46:15) on Friday, the often outspoken defender hinted that there was further footage of the Terry-Ferdinand incident that had not yet been released into the public domain. He said:

"I do believe he is innocent until prove guilty. I have been told that there's an angle of what he [John Terry] said to Anton Ferdinand that the public hasn't necessarily seen yet. I'm told it's allegedly very very damning".

The video evidence that's already in the public domain is only a snippet of the what took place on the day, and it only shows one angle of the incident. Perhaps the footage to which Lawro refers contains a longer clip that includes the whole exchange between Terry and Ferdinand.

Given the dozens of video cameras scattered around every Premier League ground, it seems like that footage of the incident would've been captured from multiple angles.

After pleading not guilty, Terry released the following statement through his Solicitors, Grosvenor Law:

"Mr Terry was shocked and disgusted by that accusation at the time. Mr Terry denies making any racist statement, and will establish in court that he is not guilty of any such offence"

That is quite an emphatic denial. Maybe the alleged unseen evidence actually vindicates Terry, and perhaps that's what Lawro means when he says it is 'damning'?

The Press are already beginning to question whether the Chelsea man should be picked for the England squad, and Terry himself is rumoured to be considering his international position. Lawro doesn't think at will happen though:

"I don't think that John Terry will retire from International football; I'd be very surprised if he even thinks about it".

Jaimie Kanwar






98 Comments :

bod said...

if the fa were really sure they'd have banned him for 8 games - yeah! right!

Nlowe121 said...

makes a mockery of the fa, i hope all this will have a damning effect on the fa. terry will probably go abroad in the summer

Andrew1 said...

Jamie you should know that you could be held in contempt for posting this to the internet.

Badnaan said...

And of course they will try to repeal rooney's international bans another 5 more times for deliberately kicking an opponent too!! Moral grounds - FA should teach them using Giggsy as the teacher

Hoq said...

this is going to be very interesting. If you get an 8 match ban for allegedly calling someone what translates as little black man and no can see this on any of the footage from the most watched fixture in world football and no lip reading experts can see any proof of this. What is the punishment be for clearly saying the words black **** in anger.
I reckon he's looking at a 10 years breaking rocks with no chance of parole :)

Adrian said...

andrew is right jamie lawrenson will do anything for his own profile now you are been used by the fa to convict terry.

Adrian said...

who told lawrenson

Jaimie K said...

Hi Andrew - with respect, this is not even close to being contempt of court. Contempt is defined as:

"An act or omission calculated to interfere with the administration of justice CPS guidelines on the issue state":

There's nothing 'calculating' here - I'm reporting a fact that has already been aired in the public domain. Additionally, Crown Prosecution Service guidelines (http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/contempt_of_court/) on the subject state:

* Risk is judged at the time of publication. The longer the gap between publication and the trial ('the fade factor'), the less the substantial risk of serious prejudice is likely to be.

Since John Terry's trial is set for July 9th, which 5 months away, there's no risk of contempt. Also, there is nothing sensationalised, exaggerated or untrue here - as I said, I've just reported something that was said in the public domain, and I have also been balanced by suggesting that footage could prove Terry innocent.

VormHat said...

Pretty irresponsible of Lawrenson to say this, regardless of whether it is true or not.

jib said...

Innocent until proven guilty, bollox!!!  Suarez got banned for 8 games on the grounds of no evidence at all.

Jaimie K said...

Laughable. Don't exaggerate or anything, will you. I see you neglect to mention that I suggest that the footage could actually exonerate Terry...

Clint said...

how much more does a footballer need to disgrace himself and his country to be punished? he has no respect for team mates, ask wayne bridge and rio ferdinand. he has no respect for officials, as we've all seen him pull a referees card out of his hand. he is by far one of the dirtiest players on the pitch, with eye-gauges, etc. is there anything terry hasn't done? what it looks like to an international viewer, is that the fa does not tolerate south americans insulting french africans in broken english, but tolerates and almost encourages racist remarks between english speaking englishmen. he sits on the stands, as his fans taunt the brother of his international team mate. he sits on the sidelines as his own team mates receive racist abuse from fans. he does nothing but deny, deny, deny. while censored videos of him go viral. has anyone actually seen the clip of him mouthing off ferdinand? notice mikel's reaction to it. he's shocked, but helpless. liverpool accept the 8 match ban, but terry denies his actions as he leads his club onto the pitch. if terry gets off, it is blatant racism on the part of the fa. they did not waste any time reprimanding a uruguayan, who shamed uruguay and his national team more than anything. terry has shamed his country, his national team, his club, the league and the sport as a whole, yet there he is, with his puffy upper eye lids and silly hair, still representing england. still representing english football. still representing football. and the english condone it, while condemning the foreigner. if english football is represented by john terry of chelsea, then english football is racist, and luis suarez is the least of their problems.

south african

Adrian said...

luis suarez done nothing wrong

theycallmemrburt said...

oh Adrian....Bless.

Adrian said...

Yes but the fa will feed lawrenson in future for doing their dirty work

Gano1 said...

The FA are useless and stitched-up Suarez, let them rot!!!!!.............Terry is bang to rights!!!!

j75j said...

There is one angle from the front where Mikel turns round to what Terry is saying and he looks a bit bemused/embarrassed with what Terry was shouting!

theycallmemrburt said...

Rio Ferdinand is now getting booed by Chelsea fans for sticking up for his brother.  Absolutely incredible.  The Chelsea fans must be outraged that these "uppity N@ggers" will not just lye down and take their racist abuse like the good little "Boys" that they should be. 
Britain's Physically induced slavery is over (in England anyway) but the memory or "memories of the good old days" for some lives on.

theycallmemrburt said...

Bravo

Adrian said...

Burt do you believe suarez would have been found guilty in a court of law

j75j said...

The Ashanti Empire in west Africa had slavery well before PORTUGAL started shipping them to the Americas could explain why the white men thought it was okay and they could get away with it! 

Adrian said...

slavery happened all over the world and not all slaves were black

Gano1 said...

Not a chance!!!!!

Simon said...

Lawro should not say anything that could prejudice the trial, although he made his comments in a different jurisdiction, Ireland

This website, presumably based in UK, has now repeated these comments

Matt said...

if the cps think there is enough evidence to charge JT, then there must be enough evidence for them to think they can get a conviction.

Unlike with Suarez, there was not enough evidence for the cps to go for a criminal conviction.

I am not saying JT is guilty, because we are all innocent till proven guilty, but to get to the stage where its at, I don't think it is looking to good for him.

The FA have a big problem, if they do nothing, they send out the message that its ok for some players to abuse other players, as long as your status in the english game is above all other players, which by being the england captain, puts you at the top.

The other side of the coin is, by doing something, they are adding to the presumption of guilt.

The FA have dug them selves into a whole. Both the Suarez and JT incidents have been handled very badly. And I think the FA are the only ones that are going to come out of this with a worse reputation than they have already.

Simon said...

How could something referred to in this context as "very,very damning" possibly be in relation to a vindication?

Flimsy attempt at trying to appear balanced by the website

j75j said...

It could come down to his own team mate Mikel! He heard what Terry said turned round to Terry in full flow at Anton!

3PhDs said...

John Terry is a racist.

Nlowe121 said...

we knew there was propper evidence months ago

Nlowe121 said...

how do work that out? lawro just saying how it is, and wat we already know!!  drama quenns or wat lol

Nlowe121 said...

in case you didnt realise lawrenson is in the real FOOTBALL WORLD, where people like him know more facts than you or i!! wake up!!

Nlowe121 said...

are you at the ground?? im watching on telly and cant hear wat your on about!!

Nlowe121 said...

slaves were sold as slaves by black people!!

Jaimie K said...

As I illustrated in a previous comment, it is not prejudicial to the trial. The very idea is laughable considering all the major papers have been discussing the Terry case for months.

Nlowe121 said...

patrice evra is a racist.................but thats ok.........aint it???

Adrian said...

Real football world if him and people like him know so much why is he only saying it now and the video we seen was clear enough he's like oliver holt fa bum boy

Adrian said...

Yes and they condemn bletter

Ndrobbo said...

Jaimie you are living in the dark ages.. please get a mind of your own.
Innocent until proven guilty, that is a statement that belongs in the past. Do you think hitler, Saddam and his like were innocent until proven guilty. Think things through instead of writing cleches...

Simon said...

Moron

Innocent until proven is the cornerstone of justice in any civilised society

Shaneff43 said...

definitely double standards...and an element of racism by the fa.  ban suarez for 8 games based on flimsy evidence...postpone the case against terry till after the euro champs.  does this not smell of the fa protecting their chances at the euros? if terry doesnt play for a long period leading up to the euros...or if he is found guilty...it could provide a detrimental effect to england's chances and reputation in a high profile tournament.  is this institutionalised racism??

Chuckyred said...

D'oh, innocent until proven guilty is how Saddam was tried, that's why he hang. Then there was Milosevic who was tried too, innocent til proven guilty. I can't really understand why there is a slight reaction to what Jaimie has reported, he's brought us a quote and his own opinion, and some don't like that, honestly some people are so soft it's unbelievable, what harm is he doing? Free speech should be applauded not frowned upon, Jaimie can write what he wants if it's not offensive.

wonders said...

as much as i dont agree with racism i do believe it works one way, as its been mentioned evra used a racial slur towards suarez before suarez did to him, and the F.A wont take action against evra... so they will take action against suarez and also to an extent terry but wont do it to evra, kind of says it all.. as i said in my opening line "it works one way"

j75j said...

Powar of FARE (Football Against Racism in Europe) has called an Asian Liverpool Fan a coconut on his Twitter account after being asked about the arrest of the Man U fan for racially abusing Stoke player!
Seems he his only interested in Racism and commenting when Liverpool are involved!

Carterruck said...

Sure you won't mind the CPS & Westminster Magistrates Court investigating then as I have now made an official complaint about this article.

Nlowe121 said...

probably out of a conversation or been asked about it, hes not one to shy away from wat he thinks

Adrian said...

hope this is reported to the police they would take action which would lead to that  guy losing his job

MSTRKRFTSMN said...

"Bent is a done deal"

"Robbie Keane wil be gone by January"

How wrong or right will Lawro be this time?

Quattroporte83 said...

Couldnt agree more.

I hope if This "supposed" new video footage does clear Terry that the FA ban Anton Ferdinand for a very long time. Like wise is it proves Terry's guilt he too should be banned for avery long time

If you get an 8 match ban with no proof what will a proven case warrant??

wonders said...

i really cant see the new evidence aiding terry myself (but you never know) and i think if suarez recieved a 8 match ban with no evidence then i suspect terry could be banned for possibly 6 months if proven guilty, then again would he be banned as could the F.A say he has been dealt with and cannot be punished twice... i believe the fact the police got involved in this case has played directly into the hands of the F.A.

Stevehale23253 said...

No one heard suarez say anything, no witnesses just his word against evras he coiuld have quite easily have denied it all called evra a liar and a trouble maker and he would have got away with it its only because he owned up to using a derogatory word ( in the eyes of the FA, not his) that he got thrashed held out to dry and pilloried by a by MU biased FA

j75j said...

Just backs up Liverpool's stance that it was a witch hunt against Suarez!

Deebo said...

Rubbish. A silly smear that was shown to be unreliable at the hearing. If fans keep on with these stupid conspiracies theories we look like a complete set of divs.

Deebo said...

And raped and thrown off ships by white people!!

Deebo said...

Well OJ wasn't so I guess that makes Suarez innocent.

Deebo said...

It's a criminal matter now. The FA have no punishment juristriction until at least after the trial.

Aw said...

What makes it worse is that Liverpool should have told Suarez he had the right to take his accuser to a criminal court and the case would have been laughed out as one mans word against another's is not substantial enough evidence to convict a man

wonders said...

what was a silly smear? that its been mentioned that evra was the first to make a racial comment to suarez? as if thats what your on about your wrong as its been confirmed that evra admitted it, the hearing said that what suarez said was unreliable which is calling his integrity into question which is again wrong as he is not the strongest at speaking english! so basically there saying because they cant understand him clearly he is an unreliable witness which is complete nonsense!

Deltamikeecho said...

For all his status among Liverpool fans (and I am one), Lawro is demonstrably a hubristic shit spouter with a long charge sheet of talking bollocks behind him. Frankly, if he told me it was night, I would strongly suspect it was day, safe in the knowledge he was trousering a pay checque for telling me so.
So let's just wait and see. Either way, his comments are sailing close to contempt of court, whether he employs the word "allegedly" or not. Be careful what you repeat Mr Kanwar...

Nlowe121 said...

and black!!! bad as eachother!! little different now eh...............as in 2012!!!
im not offended by your racist claim though so dont worry x x x

Nlowe121 said...

makes great headlines.................its got us talking lol

Carroll9 said...

In regards to your slavery comment... but millions were not brutalised, under the Ashanti packed like sardines on a ship and dying of thirst and starvation. Then taken 2 a foreign land robbed off your identity, separated from your loved ones and worked 2 the bone. Not 2 mention the raping of women, the beatings and the lack of value placed on your life. Oh and because slavery was already happening (on a minor scale) it's then ok 2 do it on an industrial scale. Study & read some books pal.

Carroll9 said...

I shouldn't have to explain the difference, please read my comment explains it all to the ignorants. Major difference was mass genocide on an industrial level. It's like comparing the Holocaust to Fred West. Yes both are horrific, but which had a greater impact on humanity as a whole. Think about it.

Carroll9 said...

Idiot the original complaint was not made by Anton Ferdinand. first he heard of it was afterwards. It is the cps that has charged Terry, Ferdinand did not accuse him, he's just reacting to the evidence presented. In fact Anton has hardly talked about it, so why should he get banned if Terry is found innocent, he is not the accuser. Get a grip.

Barry Yates said...

You are fighting a losing battle here. I can tell you that from past experience. Presenting an argument laced with fact and sense - what a criminal thing to do. I have my doubts about whether you are a true Liverpool fan.

Barry Yates said...

Exactly, only the FA come out of this looking bad. Liverpool on the other hand have come out maintaining their stellar reputation and dignity.

Ashfah Ngog said...

These two are the 'epitome' of English football.

Ndrobbo said...

Look, in the eyes of the law you are innocent until you have been through the system. I agree. However, if someone has been found with the smoking gun in his hand... he is guilty untill proven guilty.

Ndrobbo said...

They are only innocent in the eyes of the law. to all the people that they killed and abused they were guilty.

E.I said...

Wrong. The Ashanti Empire didnt have slaves. They had prisoners of war who were the result of going to war with the Ashantis and losing, a result of any war. plus they werent being raped ad kidnapped, carted off in chains to the other side of the world to build another mans society . to suggest that the european mass kidnapping was "ok because africans had internal disputes anyway" is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. It was africans business, no one elses. Id have more respect for you if you just came out and said it like it is that Europeans just took advantage of a specific situation good or bad. And Im from Ghana by the way.

Biggus said...

Not really a Terry fan .... But .. I think if he says he's as inoccent as he does ... Maybe he should sue the fa for defermation of character ...
Maybe these KNOBS behind there closed doors might think twice before they go banning and dropping players ...

Felderkirk said...

Lawrenson shouldn't be discussing this as it's a legal matter. His suggestion here is that the public who haven't considered Terry 'guilty' should be aware that there is another tape of footage that shows that Terry IS guilty. That's going to influence public opinion regardless of whether it's actually true or not.

I have personally been disgusted at how the Suarez affair was handled by every side, including the ridiculous and embarrassing media-fuelled public outcry which merely added to the circus.

The Terry incident is an opportunity for people to learn from the irrational bollocks of what has come before. But we all know that everyone just sees this as an opportunity to make a name for themselves again - Lawrenson is proving that already.

Cue the morons.
Did somebody say 'Stan Collymore'...?

Deebo said...

Complete twaddle. Laughable and obvious that you haven't read the report. These kind of uninformed smears reflect terribly on Liverpool fans and are reminiscent of The Sun's drip feeding of lies and falsehoods designed to attack the characters of people they don't like. Sad.

Ps: Suarez obviously spoke in Spanish at the hearing! He had a translator. YOU'RE speaking complete nonsense.

Deebo said...

Ps: the only thing Evra admitted to was saying 'your sister's c**t' which is similar to saying 'f**king hell' in English, not literally Suarez's sister's private. Btw Suarez does not have a sister.

Deebo said...

Racist claim? It was an almost exact replica of your idiotic response. You are NOT equipped to have a discussion on the slave trade as you have no concept of impact and proportionality. To even bring in an assessment of the slave trade to a debate about John Terry just demonstrates that. My response was to highlight the pointlessness of your comment.

Deebo said...

Luis Suarez has never done anything wrong. Apart from headbutting a referee, biting an opponent's shoulder, handballing and celebrating it, diving, forcing club's to courts of arbitration so he can break his contract, petulantly kicking water bottles when subbed, giving obscene gestures to the crowd...

Nothing wrong at all. Not capable of it.

John Lee said...

Simon, Innocent until proven guilty maybe seen as the
cornerstone of justice in most "Civilised" societies. However, that
does not mean the allegations cannot be damaging enough to remove someone from
their duties pending an investigation. Many instances of this have happened. The
way some people are behaving you'd think it was a new decision the FA had come
up with solely for John Terry. Also if it was completely a true statement why
are people locked up on remand pending a trial? Innocent until proven guilty is
a term people would like to believe in. In reality it isn't and cannot be.

Specialist123 said...

Suarez gets 8 game ban , but Terry will walk unscathed cos.... (thats right) hes English. FA bias.

Gab said...

I don't think that most people are going to be able to understand that.

Gab said...

Well said.

On these threads i see a lot of comments on 'how black players only need to accuse x player once more, etc, etc' and it shows most people's take on the subject and they have no proof either way.

Gab said...

Good try, but this guy is never going to understand. The black friends he claims to have must be called Tom, Tom and Tom.

Gab said...

Good try, but i think you are fighting a losing battle!

Gab said...

Wow, I thought LFC supporters were smarter than this. In the last few weeks I realised that we have as many morons as, if not more than, anyone else.

Ferdinand did not make the case for Terry, so for the idiot in a rush to get Ferdinand banned, you've shown your true colours already.

Innocent until proven guilty? So the fact that Chelsea deliberately delayed the case till after the Euros makes no difference? They stopped any other Chelsea players missing training to go as witnesses, so the court moved the date of the case. Seems cynical to me and seems as if the FA had thought the trial would be done and dusted last week, when they decided to keep him as captain. Once they see him and Chelsea force the case into the summer, they are right to decide that they don't want it unresolved for such a long time. Glad most of you think that if your work mate had a trial pending for burglary you would be happy to wait 6 months while he showed up for work and moved amongst all your possessions. And, while we are at it, maybe I should accuse Evra/Ferdinand/any other player who gets abused of perjury and then you people have to prove they lied. Once you can't do it, and allowed them innocent until proven guilty, you then have to wonder why they get bullets in the post and booed by huge crowds. OR MAYBE YOU HAVE NOT APPLIED INNOCENT TILL PROVEN GUILTY TO  THE ALLEGED VICTIMS WHEN TELLING THE WORLD THAT THEY LIED?

Who on here knows, for sure, that Evra lied about Suarez? Or that Terry is innocent?

I'm not convinced Terry is guilty either, but seeing as the man does not understand sacrificing for the many, he needed the captaincy taken off him to avoid the entire team suffering this circus, which he has caused with relation to the captaincy, ever since he chased Wayne Bridge's ex. Should never have got the job back in the first place, only to rock the boat during the last World Cup. 

Gab said...

Cos, it is a different legal system with a different burden of proof. For all we know, it was a Chelsea supporter or member of staff who charged him, knowing that he needed to be proven guilty, beyond reasonable doubt rather than the Suarez case, that no one at Liverpool appealed despite starting a smear campaign against the alleged victim!

If Liverpool had decided to go that way, Suarez would probably have gotten off. 

Gab said...

Defamation of character? John Terry? Are you serious?

Gab said...

What, so that makes all racism at Anfield ok then? Love it when people say this as if it is ok cos someone else is doing it. If someone throws a brick through my window, is it ok if i throw one through yours? Man U v Stoke is irrelevent. 

Gab said...

Half the idiots were going on about Suarez's sister for weeks. If i could have arranged a meeting for them, i could have made a mint.

Biggus said...

Like I said ....
If he's inoccent ... Then prove it ...
The fa has far too much control of players and incidents ...

j75j said...

You need to tell BBC they are wrong on a program write up last week!
Black tribal leaders sold their spoils of war to the white slavers but this small fact gets over looked all the time. Sins of the Fathers starts in Africa not Europe.

j75j said...

What your saying it's okay to have a slave if you treat them okay!!!!!!!!!!!!
White slave traders brought of Black/Arab slave traders which spaned right across Africa into Arabia which the white traders exploited, Africa/Arabia should take responsibility as much as any white man. You should do some research as well pal.

j75j said...

From what Powar was saying yes! Not prepared to comment on Man U but plenty to say about the one or two idiots in the crowd.

markclayton said...

you can see it clearly on you tube he calls him a black cunt hes a racist prick

Simon said...

People who are deemed a flight risk or a danger to the public are placed on remand

Some are remanded on bail

It can be unfair, is there any compensation for time held on remand if ultimately found innocent of offence"

Admittedly the American style "perp walk" is an awful practice as the accused is displayed in prison fatigues etc,

Soon mind reading equipment will resolve everything :)

Simon said...

Dude.....

Suarez case was tried by independent FA commission, Terry is being tried by CPS. FA have sweet FA to do with it

Gab said...

So are you saying that the next time we play Juventus that they have the right to...........

j75j said...

Did you know a United fan had been arrested for racially abusing a Stoke player?
Has it been on the news has it been splashed all over the newspapers?

Gab said...

He had the chance to not be proven guilty and he decided to let it ride until July. He does not have to prove he is innocent, like Suarez did, he has to be proved guilty. It should have been easier for him and, yet, he still put it off. Last tournament, and all that, he did not want to take any chances. Just the same way that a pub is allowed to refuse entry at the management's discretion, I think that the FA have the right, at any time, to say that someone is not a suitable captain, for any reason. Like Beckham before him, the job is not his God given right and a captain in no rush to clear his name is not the inspirational leader i would be looking for.

comebackRafa said...

Terry said those damning words i saw it myself on the video before they took it off the internet,yet he is saying Ferdinand accused him of being racist so he said the words i havent called you a  blah blah blah.In court terry will get off with what hes been charged with as hes been charged with racially abusing Ferdinand,and his defense is he was so incensed of being accused of racism he was just defending himself by saying i havent called you a blah blah blah instead of saying i havent called you anything racist.So the fa will say Terry has been found not guilty so there hands are tied.I really feel for Suarez,hes been accused on the basis of Evras testimony and been hung out to dry,Evra is a despivable being,Giggs was also there giving his opinion and Giggs is the lowest form of humanity even worse than Evra,also the bl--k players of manutd testified saying how they used the word Suarez admitted to using once in his defence when Evra said dont touch me you south american,Suarez quite rightly said in his defence, your black,why can Evra insult Suarezs ethnicity yet Suarez cant respond.

Gab said...

So why did Kuyt and Comolli say that Suarez told Evra he kicked him because he was black and he did not talk to blacks? Evra did not say that, our own people said that! Why did Suarez say he was trying to be friendly when the footage suggests he was not? We've been through all of this before and everyone will now believe what they want to believe, regardless of the facts, but Terry going to court will probably get him off as the burden of proof is different in a legal case. After that, the FA will not be able to act. Liverpool could have taken out a civil case against Evra, but they chose not to and decided to smear the guy in the press the whole time. Why did they not appeal or contest the case in another court? Would you just drop it and then continue grumbling for the next 6 weeks? Like with Terry, I find it odd that people do not act to clear their name as quickly and decisively as possible. I think most people who felt there was a huge injustice would have taken it further, but, for some reason, Liverpool chose not to but continue to throw out pointless jibes about the whole thing, even when people like Ferguson are saying the right things.

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