It's nil-nil at Anfield in a must-win league game; the visitors are dominating the second half, and Liverpool desperately need a goal; so what do you do? Obviously, you take off your £35m striker, a player who just happens to be the most expensive British player in the history of the English game (!)
If this scenario had been suggested before the start of the season, I'm sure most Liverpool fans would've been outraged at the possibility.
However, this is exactly what happened on Saturday against Swansea: with Liverpool desperately needing a goal with 20 minutes to go, Kenny Dalglish decided to replace the club's most expensive player.
Carroll was clearly unhappy with the decision, and skulked off down the tunnel as soon as he left the pitch. I can understand his frustration - being subbed off against a newly-promoted team when your own team needs a goal is, quite frankly, embarrassing.
Seemingly aware of Carroll's frustration, and how the substitution may be perceived, Dalglish has today felt the need to explain his thinking behind removing the striker from the action:
"late on we took off Andy and brought on Craig. That was no reflection on the big man's performance. he has been very good in the last few weeks.
"The only reason we took him off was to try a different approach in the last few minutes.
"In those kind of situations, something like that can lead to a winner"
I personally feel the substitution was correct, but no matter how Dalglish tries to dress it up, removing Carroll is (IMO) tantamount to a tacit admission that he is losing faith in the striker.
I'll probably be barracked for calling it a 'lack of faith', and it may sound harsh, but actions speak louder than words. If Dalglish had faith in Carroll's ability to score, he would've kept him on the field. It's that simple.
We're not talking about scoring against the defensive might of Man United or Chelsea here; Swansea have conceded 14 goals in 6 away games, which is one of the worst records in the league.
This seems to suggest that there is a high probability that home teams can score quite easily against Swansea, does it not?
Dalglish even underlines the point himself: 'Something like that [replacing Carroll] can lead to a winner'. If I was John Henry, my question would be:
"Yes, but surely we're entitled to expect that having a £35m striker on the field can also lead to a winner? If not, why not?"
Jaimie Kanwar
If this scenario had been suggested before the start of the season, I'm sure most Liverpool fans would've been outraged at the possibility.
However, this is exactly what happened on Saturday against Swansea: with Liverpool desperately needing a goal with 20 minutes to go, Kenny Dalglish decided to replace the club's most expensive player.
Carroll was clearly unhappy with the decision, and skulked off down the tunnel as soon as he left the pitch. I can understand his frustration - being subbed off against a newly-promoted team when your own team needs a goal is, quite frankly, embarrassing.
Seemingly aware of Carroll's frustration, and how the substitution may be perceived, Dalglish has today felt the need to explain his thinking behind removing the striker from the action:
"late on we took off Andy and brought on Craig. That was no reflection on the big man's performance. he has been very good in the last few weeks.
"The only reason we took him off was to try a different approach in the last few minutes.
"In those kind of situations, something like that can lead to a winner"
I personally feel the substitution was correct, but no matter how Dalglish tries to dress it up, removing Carroll is (IMO) tantamount to a tacit admission that he is losing faith in the striker.
I'll probably be barracked for calling it a 'lack of faith', and it may sound harsh, but actions speak louder than words. If Dalglish had faith in Carroll's ability to score, he would've kept him on the field. It's that simple.
We're not talking about scoring against the defensive might of Man United or Chelsea here; Swansea have conceded 14 goals in 6 away games, which is one of the worst records in the league.
This seems to suggest that there is a high probability that home teams can score quite easily against Swansea, does it not?
Dalglish even underlines the point himself: 'Something like that [replacing Carroll] can lead to a winner'. If I was John Henry, my question would be:
"Yes, but surely we're entitled to expect that having a £35m striker on the field can also lead to a winner? If not, why not?"
Jaimie Kanwar
Why are you always sh*t stirring Jaimie. I've seen you accused so often in the past of not really being a supporter but a Manure fan constantly undermining the club. I have to say it's looking like that more and more as the only things that ever seem to appear on your sight are negative. What's your problem? How about trumpeting that were 8 games unbeaten or something like that?
ReplyDeletei believe he should have kept him on, if you look at utd when they are in fergie time and need a goal, all they do is get young and nani wide and pump long balls to the far post. more often than not teams crumble under the aerial threat. liverpool however seem tactically incapable of such an exercise. mainly due to the fact we have no pace on the wings to beat a man and get a cross in. unfortunately under kenny so far i have yet to see a change of gameplan or tactic that has worked in game. benitez could do it.
ReplyDelete"You don't see Barcelona, Arsenal, Man United, Chelsea or any other top team substituting their most expensive striker when they're desperate for a league goal."
ReplyDeleteHaven't Chelsea done this with a certain £50M striker this season?
didn't united do that with berbatov last year when he was there leading goal and still has barely started this season? and earlier this season dzeko scored 4 goals in one game he didnt even play the next week. stop causing unnecessary rubbish
ReplyDeleteYour all for a bit of sensationalism Jaimie. Personally I would interpret that statement as Kenny has stated it. Which seems like 'we tried something different'. If we where losing 1-0 or 2-0 an he took off a striker for a striker then I'd say the faiths gone, but at 0-0 you don't always wanna tweak it too much in case we then lose. Players tire and if a striker (35 million or not) hasn't scored and doesn't look like he will, replacing him with a faster substitute makes sense. I can think of AVB swapping his strikers about quite a lot, lack of faith or something different? Fergie bring Hernandez off the bench a lot, lack of faith? I think a lack of faith would be to not start Carroll at all, but he has started him, so no, I'd say he has faith in him. I think he'll come good too, I just think that price tag is a big weight round his neck.
ReplyDeleteDisagree totally. You are making a much greater interpretation than the facts actually allow. Carroll is a decent player, but he needs decent service. The manager made a decision that how the team were currently playing probably warranted bringing Andy off and trying something else.
ReplyDeleteYou are right though, 'lack of faith' is the kind of thing the daily mail would write and too harsh given the in-depth interpretation you are attempting to make.
Harry - drop the sniping derogatory comments or I will simply delete your posts.
ReplyDeleteWhy is that whenever someone has a different view to comfortable majority that it's deemed to be 'sensationalism'? Utter nonsense. I've very clearly given my reasons why I hold this view, and they are valid reasons to support it, whether people ensconced in the comfort zones choose to accept it or not. As I said, actions speak louder than words:
ReplyDelete* Carroll is liverpool's most expensive striker
* Liverpool are AT HOME against a team with the worst defensive away record in the league
* Liverpool need a goal; it's a must-win game
* Liverpool take off their most expensive striker despite the fact his job is to score goals
I'm sorry, but this looks bad, and it is a lack of faith. As I said in the article: if KD had faith in Carroll to score a goal for Liverpool, he would've kept him on the field! How can that not be true?
No, they haven't. Torres has not been subbed when Chelsea have been desperate to score a goal in a must-win game.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing wrong about being critical. Jamie's style is Jamie's style. But for a Liverpool fan to point to 8 games unbeaten while we're 6th shows as an upside is someone who has low standards for the club. Those games were winnable and we're still getting away with Suarez remaining fit for all those games. Liverpool are in problems but they are all very fixable. But I believe letting Dalglish feel the pressure to get it right quicker than he has done is only good for the club. Dalglish negotiated hard for for deal as manager, there's no reason for us not to be just as demanding that he improves things on the pitch drastically. That is the job he signed up for - not for his nostalgia and sound bytes. I'm not sure which one was more stupid £35 million for Carol or £50 million for Torres.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, I could appreciate what Dalglish tried. Perhaps, he'll be better off starting Bellamy than Carroll in the next game? I remember Rafa taking off Gerrard against Everton - Liverpool's most dangerous goal scoring threat then - and brought on Lucas. Fans hated it but it was a masterstroke. Lucas improved out approach play and would have had scored the winner if it wasn't for that handball on the line, which resulted in Kuyt dispatching the penalty. Manager's should try different things. Of course Gerrard is worth more than Lucas, but for what was needed at that point in the game, Lucas fit the bill. This happens time and time again in football. While I could see Jamie's point I do disagree with it.
ReplyDeletemanchester united's most expensive striker (berbatov) can't get a game! how naive are you jamie? it is VERY common for managers to try something different, that's what substitutes are for! and you said, and quote 'you don't see chelsea or any other top team substituting their most expensive striker when desperate for a goal' oh hello! what about that spanish girl who used to play for us? WISE UP MAN!
ReplyDeletesteve mcauley
wish every body would stop harping on about the 35mill price tag on Carroll. We know we payed over the odds, 35mill is usually spent of a proven established player.
ReplyDeleteWhat we got to understand is he is still young and still learning. you don't lose faith in such a short time, Know in 2 years, if he has not made any progress then you can say, maybe that was a mistake, but not know.
if KD makes the change, and Bellamy scores, its a stoke of genius, because he did not score, he must of made the change cause he has lost faith in Carroll.
No one knows for certain why the change was made, but I very much doubt it was down to losing faith in the big man.
ist an attempt to make a story, where there is not one to make.
Jaimie, your making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm not so sure it was 'must' win, but it was definitely 'must not lose' game, that's why he tried a different option. If he had no faith in Carroll, then why did he start? And why did he wait til the last twenty minutes to take him off instead of half time like Henderson? If a manager needs to create a goal and swaps a midfielder with twenty minutes to go is this because he has no faith in the midfielders ability to create a goal? No. It's because the manager wants to try a different option. When looking at his players on the pitch with who to bring off he obviously felt his formation with the adjustment of Carroll for Bellamy could snatch the win, rather than having 3 strikers on and maybe conceding. And I do think your all for sensationalism, I think the cup is half empty with you and I would like to see a positive article which I'm sure you could no doubt write, rather than making something of a quote that just isn't there.
ReplyDeleteGreat points. I agree that the Lucas-Gerrard swap was a masterstoke, and it's probably by favourite Benitez moment.
ReplyDeleteChuckyRed - I write positive articles all the time. Just because you don't see the things way I do doesn't mean I'm wrong (and vice versa). I don't doubt KD's reasoning but there is an implicit lack of faith in his actions at the weekend. It is irrefutable - if you substitute your most expensive striker with 20 minutes to go in a game that you have to win, then that is unambiguously a lack of faith in that striker.
ReplyDeleteAnd how can a home game against newly-promoted opposition not be a must-win? Given the fact three home games had already been drawn prior to Swansea's visit, and the rising threat of Spurs and Arsenal, of course it was a must-win game.
Then why delete my comment above Jaimie, truth hurt did it? Your a fraud
ReplyDeleteBerbatov is no longer a first-teamer, so the comparison is invalid. If Berbatove had been bought six months ago it would be a different story. I'm talking about expensive strikers who are also main strikers at their clubs. Berbatov no longer fits into that category.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Kenny & Commoli are beginning to sweat a little over the Carroll purchase. In hindsight it seems a strange buy given the return to a pass & move philosophy. I keep telling myself that surely KD/Como know so much more than me and that in time it will all fall into place and my doubts will prove to be the ramblings of an armchair amateur. But in the back of my mind I am seeing the glimmer of a scenario where Tevez comes on loan in Jan, links up seemlessly with Saurez and we sell Carroll for £25m to Spurs in the summer.. or am I just rambling again?
ReplyDeleteNo, Dalemarlo: Read the comment policy. You're just the latest in a long line of commentors who can't make their posints without including insults and/or dergoatory comments. I'm not interested in your sniping - if you have a view on football then express it. If you can't do that without hurling insults then your comments will be deleted. If you don't like that, you can lump it.
ReplyDeletecan only agree , why keep lucas on he does,nt add anything going forward or defending " protects back four " your having a laugh i sit in centenary stand for home games so not just a telly fan but rerun some of the live tv games and then tell me he can play . " plays for brazil " worst brazil side in history . not really having a go at the lad but he is not a good footballer , you can get away carrying a bad winger hoping he might come good ie kewell babel etc but a central midfield alayer you cant , had this discussion on lfc tv last year with molby and brian reade , in his defence reade caled him a good squad player he isnt , thats the best he could come up with having him in the team is causing most of our probems because it means leaving out a decent player ie we havent seen henderson in his proper position yet henderson playing central on sat and bellamy on right we win or spearing central [ cos he would add something ] and kuyt maxi or bellers right we win not forgetting aqua meireles shelvey we even play gerrard out of position to accomm. him why oh why the mind boggles
ReplyDeleteNo, you're not rambling. Hopefully, it's an accurate premonition of what's to come.
ReplyDeleteLooks like I hit a nerve. All I pointed out was that every article I ever read on your site is negative and have therefore deduced that you are not a real supporter, are you not able to deal with the criticism? I wasn't rude and didn't use swear words, simply expressed my opinion.
ReplyDeleteLooks like I hit a nerve. All I pointed out was that every article I ever read on your site is negative and have therefore deduced that you are not a real supporter, are you not able to deal with the criticism? I wasn't rude and didn't use swear words, simply expressed my opinion.
ReplyDeleteLooks like I hit a nerve. All I pointed out was that every article I ever read on your site is negative and have therefore deduced that you are not a real supporter, are you not able to deal with the criticism? I wasn't rude and didn't use swear words, simply expressed my opinion.
ReplyDeletetorres' FIRST game for chelsea when it was still 0-0 he was subbed off at the 66 minute mark when it was STILL 0-0 which means chelsea were in need of a goal. 3 minutes later raul meireles scored. Do your proper research before you make naive comments
ReplyDeleteLooks like I hit a nerve. All I pointed out was that every article I ever read on your site is negative and have therefore deduced that you are not a real supporter, are you not able to deal with the criticism? I wasn't rude and didn't use swear words, simply expressed my opinion.
ReplyDeleteLooks like I hit a nerve. All I pointed out was that every article I ever read on your site is negative and have therefore deduced that you are not a real supporter, are you not able to deal with the criticism? I wasn't rude and didn't use swear words, simply expressed my opinion.
ReplyDeleteRight. Was that this season? No. Read the article properly
ReplyDeleteJaimie you like everbody else is entitled to an opinion and your take on things does provoke debate. Sometimes your opinion frustrates me (and others I would think) because you try to be negative about things which is fine but probably not the majority view point. With this article I think that what KD said was true. We where having no success playing as we where so a change was made to try something different. At some stage in most seasons top teams struggle against poorer opposition and during the game they will try different tactics surely thats the perogative of the manager. All the new players are struggling to settle into the team Carroll, Henderson, Downing and to a lesser extent Adams have not yet set the premier league alight in a Red shirt and more is expected from them.
ReplyDeleteI notice you didnt do an article on the facts that 1) Liverpool have created more chances on goal than any other Premier League Team this season 2) Liverpool have hit the woodwork 3 times more than any other team this season. These are positives and when (or if) Carroll reaches the level that prompted the club to pay £35m for him those chances will be converted.
The target for the club this year is top 4 and this is still within our sights. We need to play better, have a bit of luck in front of goal, and get the new boys to settle to achieve this but the target is definately attainable.
Chelsea ARE regularly substituting their most expensive striker too though!
ReplyDeleteAnd City are regularly dropping their expensive Dzeko to the bench, after seeing other highly paid recurits Robinho & Adebayor shuffle to the exit door.
And I don't think that is unfair to compare Carroll to Berbatov. Both were extremely expensive purchases that are good at what they do but ultimately don't fit in perfectly into the teams that they've been bought for. Carroll was a bad purchase but Jamie, you're making out that no other team makes such mistakes, or that every other team automatically gets built around the clubs most expensive player, when clearly this is not the case...
Looks like I hit a nerve. All I pointed out was that every article I ever read on your site is negative and have therefore deduced that you are not a real supporter, are you not able to deal with the criticism? I wasn't rude and didn't use swear words, simply expressed my opinion.
ReplyDeletein the short time I've been regularly reading these articles and comments I'd say Jamie K that the difference here is that you say "IMO" - takes the edge off the pretty severe/harsh tone of what are (IMO) valid and interesting reading.
ReplyDeleteAnyway agree totally with the Henry hypothetical but it sux for Carroll that the service is only just starting to get up to scratch .. and only just.
Looks like I hit a nerve. All I pointed out was that every article I ever read on your site is negative and have therefore deduced that you are not a real supporter, are you not able to deal with the criticism? I wasn't rude and didn't use swear words, simply expressed my opinion.
ReplyDeleteChelsea vs stoke opening game of the season torres subbed off at the 89th minute mark when it was 0-0.
ReplyDeletechelsea vs. west brom. he came off 60th minute for drogba and it was 1-1 at the time.
once again do your research properly before you make silly naive comments..
Chelsea vs stoke opening game of the season torres subbed off at the 89th minute mark when it was 0-0.
ReplyDeletechelsea vs west brom torres subbed off at the 60th minute mark when it was till 1-1. also happened TONS last season under ancelotti.
Jaimie, I mean by sensationalism that you are seeing something thy isn't there. The football is a squad game these days, gone are the same 11 staying on the pitch for 90 minutes and using the same 14 players in a full season like they used to, and a change between a big strong fella for a little fast fella could be the difference between 3 points, 1 point, or none. Price tag makes no difference an the fact is, Kenny had faith Carroll would score, he didn't, he then had faith in changing a striker for a striker, it didn't work out, but it doesn't mean that he has no faith in Carroll. I think you've seen something that isn't there. As for Berbatov, and Torres comparisons people have got them right whether they where last season or not, why does that matter? And I know this is about opinions and is why we all love football, but I don't think twisting Kennys words for an article is really an opinion. IMO!!!!
ReplyDeleteI think must win games are towards the end of the season when we can't make up ground on other teams, therefore we MUST win. Or cup games if you want to win a cup. That's a MUST. I've replied to the rest of the article at the end sorry pal.
ReplyDeleteNo - just because you don't see what I see it doesn't mean it's not there. I've given very specific reasons to back up my point. You need to stop being so subjective and try and look at things from a different perspective.
ReplyDeleteI always try and look at things in a different way; that's just the way I think. That conflicts with many other fans who let the emotion of the being a fan get in the way of being realistic.
You and others can keep living in denial if you like; but:
* Removing a striker with 20 minutes to go
* In a game against newly promoted opposition
* Who have the worst away record in the league
* With the team needing a goal
=
No faith that the striker in question is able to score on the day.
It's irrefutable, whether you like it or not.
you didn't mention 'main strikers' you said clubs' most expensive strikers! and berba is man u's as is the spanish girl at chelsea, so i CAN make the comparison, dippy!
ReplyDeleteI understand that and fair enough but I can't stand when people write articles and get there information wrong like jamie did before with saying torres hasn't been subbed off this year when chelsea have needed a goal.
ReplyDeleteNothing wrong with the article - it could be speculation but the truth is you only need to watch our games to realise that Carroll's overall input and impact is minimal and there are very very slow signs of progress. Why shouldnt the price tag be mentioned? we all knew he would have to carry that burden in January so you cant shy away from it now
ReplyDeleteOpinions are like ass**les, everyone has got one... in the end everything is speculative but you can only base the possibilities of the future on what you have seen in the present and past - otherwise what is the point of having a discussion about the club and the issues? - why talk about football at all untill the end of the season and then raise the debates then seen that most fans associate intelligent footballing debates with kneejerk reaction , negativity, or lack of faith/ support?
Based on what I have seen we do not have a certain calibre of finisher again - that period between Owen leaving and Torres arriving (Baros, Ciise, Kuyt, Crouch, Bellamy) has dawned upon us again - Carroll will score goals but he is not convincing anyone that he fits into this side or can partner Suarez adequatley.
Lets wait untill the end of the season to find out for sure, but Jaimie I think if we try and purchase a striker in the January transfer window that will be the strongest admission that Kenny could give regarding a lack of faith in Andy Carroll.
The manager should feel free to drop ANY of his players, regardless of price or their standing in the game. If they're not performing to the required level and there are other options capable of improving the teams performance then the manager should go for it.
ReplyDeleteI don't really agree with Dalglish withdrawing Carroll in this match, but that is more because I think that there were other players more deserving of the hook, not because I think Carroll should be deemed undroppable due to his price tag.
If push comes to shove, I'm much happier to have Dalglish at least be seen to do SOMETHING anyway, instead of just twiddling his thumbs for the whole second half as he has been doing in a number of games this season to our detriment. Subs are there for a reason and they should be used whenever the players on the pitch are not performing to the level expected of them.
Guilty if he makes substitution and guilty if he does not... King Kenny can't win, can he...?
ReplyDeleteI disagree with your passage "You don't see Barcelona, Arsenal, Man United, Chelsea or any other top team this season substituting their most expensive striker when they're desperate for a league goal."
We have seen numerous times David Villa subbed for Pedro or Keita and not just because he'd done the job and can be rested;
We have seen many times Higuain subbed for Benzema and the other way around.
We have seen Torres subbed for Drogba or Anelka many times.
I don't see why Kenny should justify his decisions at all. Because he is a manager and he knows what he is doing. However I do think that some of his decisions could have been sharper in order to change the course of the game.
Totally agree, Madness. if Liverpool sign another Striker in Jan that would clearly be another example of lack of faith. Fans would not accept that assessment though; like we've seen on this thread, it would mean something entirely different.
ReplyDeleteUsing the logic displayed on this thread, you could argue that Liverpool selling Robbie Keane after just 6 months was not a sign of lack of faith either. Obviously, it was, or we wouldn't have sold him.
Same applies to Carroll in this situation: if KD had faith that he would score against Swansea he would've kept him on the field.
JK- You've highlighted that KD is losing faith in Carroll. This is old news! The number of appearances he's had this season indicates KD doesn't have much confidence in AC.
ReplyDeleteJK - Its 70th minute we need a goal, at current form who do you have faith in getting us a goal, Carroll or Bellamy?
Most likely KD got the AC signing wrong, at the time of purchase he looked good for Newcastle, nobody expected him to turn out this bad.
Big deal, it's not the first or the last time a manager will get it wrong in the transfer market. Berbatov??
Yet again 100% correct................well said!!!!
ReplyDeletePlayers gets huge wages to come in the ground and take any opportunity.
ReplyDeleteWe payed huge wages and We had invested money to add some more flare, width and options on the bench.
That's excatly the reason why We pay wages to players like Graig Bellamy, in order to increase our alternative options.
Carroll started the game because He provided physycal presence in the box area, Bellamy was bought because He has pace, technique and flair.
Obviously squad needed pace in that moment of game, and Kenny Dalglish tried to solve that lack of pace.
No matter If He was right or not.
The debate about Carroll is still on (I'm for one Who thinks that Liverpool need the presence of Carroll on the ground to make easier the offensive moves of our midfield) no matter how the debate divides our opinions, but Kenny's decision to call him off from the ground it's another question and for me it's an irrilevant question.
Agree with this comment. I was in the KOP on Saturday and watching the service Carroll was getting was frustrating to say the least. Apart from the one cross he should have buried, all of the other balls in to him, all he could do was try for the knockdowns. They were high, looping balls, lacking pace, and when he knocked them down his strike partner was nowhere to be seen. If we are to continue this style, Suarez needs to play a lot tighter to Carroll, and we also need our increasingly deep lying midfield partnership to start breaking into the box and ganble on the knockdowns. Either that or our crossing needs to evolve into a much quicker, pacier ball, that can be headed on goal rather than knocked down.
ReplyDeleteAs I stated in the article, i thought it was the right decision to remove Carroll. That's not my point though; I raise the issue because when a manager pays 35m for a striker you'd think he'd have more faith in him; the fact that he doesn't is concerning, especially considering the players that could've been bought with that 35m.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't hold it against KD for getting it wrong in the AC signing. We know he has. As I said before Carroll looked very good at the time of purchase.
ReplyDeleteDalglish has two options, he can sell Carroll or he can do what Fergie did with Berbatov. Which is to not accept he got it wrong with Berbatov and stick with him and at the same time buy more strikers.
Pep Guardiola bought Ibrahimovic for 40m. That didn't work out. That's all forgotten. Pep Guardiola made a huge tactical mistake in the away leg to Inter Milan in the CL by playing Ibrahimovic, this decision resulted in less ball time for Messi and ultimately cost them the match.
We do need another striker in January 3 out and out strikers, David Villa been talked up again.
ReplyDeleteCarroll will be part of a player+cash deal in January for Collocini. And Kenny will get Torres back at Anfield.
ReplyDeleteThe knives are out for Kenny and it's largely Liverpool fans sharpening them.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why football fans can't accept that Managers do get it wrong in the transfer market. In fact great/very good managers have regularly got it wrong in the transfer market. FACT
andy carrol will never make the grade at LFC..simple as..bad piece of business however suarez was a great piece of business..buy another top class striker and send andy on loan in january and lets move forward...i would of loved andy to blow us away but it was just never going to happen...too much pressure for the lad...
ReplyDeleteu r annoying! wasted my time. won't b back on here
ReplyDeleteAt least he was on the pitch he had his chance to score and blew it in the end Kenny went for a TACTICAL change as simple as that.
ReplyDeleteKenny gets questioned on no tactical moves and then gets questioned when he does!
There is a difference between lack of faith in a game situation and over all lack of faith in a player so that you are reluctant to play him again... Cost of a player can rightfully be used for how good a player should be now but Kenny has often said this purchase was for 5 years and admitted that his 22 year old striker needs more time to be worth the 35 million. What we fans cannot understand is how 35 million would not be spent on more than one player that will get us at least 4th place this season! Thus the frustrated discussions on blogs like this one. Kenny obviously wanted to try something different because he didn't think Andy would change the score the way he was playing and the way their defense was doing well against him. This can be seen as no faith in this game situation. End of... YNWA.
ReplyDeleteWhat Kenny said is true, Torres was a few times taken out because visiting teams packed their defence with 10 men and there's no way we could score so we need a different perspective. When Torres was taken out these teams move forward and let the defence be as usual. But I am surprised why Lucas was not taken off.
ReplyDeletemost expensive player, most expensive player.... why do some people talk about him as if he's supposed to be worth the 35 mil. he's 'over priced' . snapped up in dying moments of transfer window by a desperate club from a club who saw an opportunity.
ReplyDeletewhy not bring on bellamy ?
Im afraid you are wrong, what knives are you talking about???..............It's a debate and this is not a communist state............we are talking about this as we would in a pub...............what is the big deal..........KK is the man....end of!!!!
ReplyDeleteShevchenko
ReplyDeleteWest Brom game they subbed Torres in the 59th minute for Drogba score at 1 all.
ReplyDeleteMalouda another sub scored the winner!
Chelsea2-1West BromFT(HT 0-1)Anelka 53Malouda 83Long 4
Hide team line-ups and match stats
Chelsea
40 Hilario03 Cole17 Bosingwa26 Terryyellow card33 Alex (Ivanovic 66)07 Ramires08 Lampardyellow card12 Mikel09 Torres (Drogba 59)21 Kalou (Malouda 35)39 Anelka
Substitutes
22 Turnbull, 02 Ivanovic,19 Ferreira, 10 Benayoun,15 Malouda, 20 McEachran,11 DrogbaWest Brom
01 Foster03 Olssonyellow card20 Shorey30 Tamasyellow card05 Tchoyi (Odemwingie 75yellow card)07 Morrison11 Brunt12 Reid21 Mulumbuyellow card (Dorrans 87)33 Scharner09 Long
Substitutes
13 Fulop, 04 Cech, 18 Jara,23 McAuley, 17 Dorrans,24 Odemwingie, 31 CoxRef: Mason
How can our squad be compared to Chelsea who have Torres,Drogba,Anelka,Sturridge and Lukaku.
ReplyDeleteMan U have Rooney,Berbatov,Owen,Welbeck and Hernandez.
Arsenal have Van Persie,Chamak,Park Chu-Young,Walcott and Gervinho.
Man City have Dzeko,Aguero,Balotelli and Tevez
We have Suarez and Carroll the squad is still being built we lack the third or fourth choice striker.
Are you sure Benitez could do it? It was games against teams like this were Rafas tactics would come unstuck and drew just has many of these games against lesser teams at Anfield.
ReplyDeleteIn the end Carroll missed an open goal what more can the team do for a striker!
Surprised at how some of the LFC fans still have a hard on for Benitez.
ReplyDeleteFergie, Wenger, Mourinho regularly whipped him in the league.
Awwww Jaimie pal, I've seen what you did there, 'no fault that the striker in question is able to score-on the day'. That's a big difference to losing total faith in a player. If he had he would bang one in then he'd have left him on, it goes without saying surely? You've turned your point round a bit there mate.
ReplyDeleteNot at all; my point has always been that KD showed a lack of faith in that particular game. Nowhere in my post or comments have I suggested KD has lost faith Carroll overall. I thought that was obvious.
ReplyDeleteI know Crouch did n't cost £35 million but I remember how Anfield got behind him and it took him 19 games and 4 months to score, when he was sold everyone said he should stay!
ReplyDeleteNolan was the one who benefited the most from Carroll and his knock down at Newcastle,your right it swings both ways Suarez should learn to play with Carroll just as much as Carroll needs to read Suarezs game.
ReplyDeleteI just love it when Jk gets proven wrong after saying things like torres has never been subbed off this season when chelsea have needed a goal when quite a few ppl including me proved otherwise he choses not to reply.
ReplyDeleteMisternavin on here some fans are happy with fourth and the Champions League football and others want to win the league but seeing we have n't been close to neither now for 3 years, a start under a new manager and new team of 8 games unbeaten and 6th in the league and only 3 points of 4th is n't to bad a start to the season and the main reason why we are 6th is that of poor finishing by the team.
ReplyDeleteWe want to win the league but standards have fallen since the 09 season but there is something for the players to build on.
Oh yes they have!
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't. 'he is losing faith in the striker', sounds like he's losing it in general and the Swansea game proves it. Not that he'd lost faith in one game.
ReplyDeleteWith all honesty, i do not think that Caroll or Henderson deserve a place in the team. So, being substituted should not be quite shocking as they do not deserve a place. 35million striker is a joke as he does not deserve to be costing more than 8 million but hey at the end of the day he is an english player who does not have a good control, pass, nor a vision but surprisingly he is always on the field ... I watch Bayern's Gomez and just dream of him being at liverpool instead of the joke that we have. Certainly he would have cost way less than the 35 million!
ReplyDeleteThanks Jaimie. You put a fantastic question at the end, to sum up.
ReplyDeleteKD is our hero & I don't want him to be sacked (May be by sugar-coating it as personal reason or ill heath), but he has made blunders with the investors money & I think, it's only his reputation, which has kept him still in apparent comfortable position.
For the amount of bashing last year RH got from LFC supporters (Including myself), I relay feel sorry for the man. KD's team is not by any means anything better, even after net 75mn+ spending by him.
And for AC, actually I am pretty convinced now, definitely Bebel & may be even Ngogg 'll have a better career than AC. At least they had pace to burn & Babel had shooting skills.
good point but Bellamy and Kuyt are there as strikers if needed (yes they play on the wings bt so do some of the other strikers you have mentioned at other clubs)
ReplyDeleteWe dont lack the third choice striker - in my eyes we should hang on to Carroll but he is the 3rd choice, the Plan B and we should get someone who will compliment Suarez as the first choice. Funds permitting of course as it remains to be seen what FSG will make available
Sorry but just because they have the worst defensive record doesn't mean to say they will be a pushover - perhaps they have been working on this in training?? Maybe it has taken them 10/11 games to get used to the premiership.
ReplyDeleteTrying to stir up trouble by constantly turning out 'articles' with a daily mail slant..... ie leaves someone feeling angry and ready to call in talksport.
Disagree. It is totally valid. He is an expensive striker that is not getting a game. How is that different to Carroll. Because its Fergie that's why, who is exonerated of any type of criticism.
ReplyDeleteStrongly and totally disagree. This is only your interpretation and yours alone. I don't see it, I saw a manager making a decision based on what he saw before him.
ReplyDeleteYou failed to spot the other tactical adjustments Kenny made during the match so I have no faith that you are calling this right in any way whatsoever.
Disagree.
ReplyDeleteWe have conceded 4 times after going up. More worrying is that, lower half teams have dominated us after the halftime break, at Anfield. We have become a single dimension team & in first half, as long as Luis individually fights with the defense. Once he runs out of breathe in second half, there is absolutely no threat from the 3 so called attacking English garbage purchased for 72mn+. And quite frankly, KD is out of the English game for over a decade & it's clearly evident why the owners were reluctant to appoint him for long term. He is been found tactically short, time & again after the break by even mediocre Managers.
ReplyDeleteBenitez was a master tactician, never had the resources for a 38 match marathon, but in head to heads, he was outstanding. In a week we scored 4 each against Real & at Old Traford, with a single against, from penalty under him. Let alone Rafa, I think with this 80mn, Hodgeson would have done better.
KD has got almost all of his squad fit, barring SG, while Rafa hardly had a full team. Actually, he didn't have a team, he had few outstanding players & a bunch of average footballers to choose from, for which, he rotated so much.
ReplyDeleteMoreover, KD's best XI is drawing with a single match in a week, Rafa's semi fit team used to run till UCL Semi-final during mid-weeks & fight for a top 3 position at the week end; bonus was almost certain at least a QF spot in both domestic KOs.
AC missed an open goal because he is the most expensive donkey; you can't expect a donkey to replace a stallion (Read Nando).
Had KD not brought on Bellamy then Jaimie would have written an article along the lines of, 'Was Dalglish right in not bringing on Bellamy and sticking to Carroll who isn't scoring goals'.
ReplyDeleteWhether you have 'faith' in what I say makes no difference to me at all.
ReplyDeletecarroll henderson adam and downing are all shite,comolli needs to be sacked if he thought these big girls blouses were good enough for the mighty reds,thank god i stopped goint to anfield years ago,i remember case,souness kennedy and dalglish now they are what you call footballers!!
ReplyDeleteDon't agree with you sir, though I was not in the Kop. You should expect from a 35mn player to create a few half chances of his own as well, just like Luis does here & there at least not miss an open post volley (I mean he should have kept within the post, just like the Norwich game header).
ReplyDeleteWhat has AC done to justify his transfer in replacement of N'Gogg (I don't want to insult Nando) & forget the price tag. We are forgetting that, to avail proper services, one has to be at the right place as well. He has absolutely no pace, therefore can't beat his marker or beat the off-side trap for through balls or running crosses; horrible on first touch, can't go into a shooting position in close corridors & takes world of time & space to turn or shoot, therefore can't score from tap ins.
Only thing he is capable of is some hard left footed drives & dead ball headings on set pieces, but I am sure Agger is far better than him in that regard.
& please don't argue with Jaimie on when & when not Nando was taken off. If possible, please visit Dubai once, you 'll see the difference between a racing Camel & an Arabian Stallion. 50mn for Nando is a steal, once let him settle & allow Chelsea to collect an intelligent central play maker who can push through balls, you 'll see what actually a centre forward is.
I think purchasing players was not controlled by Comolli, he was rather more occupied to off-load additional players with a good business. Also, I don't think anyone in LFC can impose any player on KD; his ego 'll not allow it. The director of football system doesn't work here in UK & Comolli 'll be restricted mainly to purchase young upcoming global talents for academy, may be in some capacity negotiating of players (in or out) due to his vast global contacts & KD being out of soccer for over a decade, but the control, authority & responsibility is with KD, I am sure.
ReplyDeleteKD is in his dreams of 70s & 80s when a very successful LFC team was built with British (& Irish) players. He tried the same this time round, but not only football in EPL has gone at much higher skill level from the hit & run English game, due to the ever increasing participation of skillful Latin & Continental European players, but also due to lack of talents in British isles (In 70s & 80s, out of 8-9 European spots, 3/4 British Isles team used to qualify for WC or Euro, now often even a single team don't qualify out of 10-12, like Euro '08. England & Ireland is mediocre, rest 3 are minnows)
I mean a real striker Kuyt and Bellamy are now wingers come strikers we need another true center forward like Villa,Gomez,Milito,HiguaÃn, Benzema,Rossi, Cavani,Lavezzi and Defoe to name a few.
ReplyDeleteI think if most of us can agree with the decision then John Henry would be comfortable with it to. He's not an idiot. He's also a baseball fan where the concept of a "pinch hitter" fits this scenario perfectly. It's not particularly rare for a pinch hitter to come in for anyone in the batting line up, even the super star for whom a huge transfer fee was paid. It's a tactical thing, just like Kenny's decision to sub-out Andy Carroll. If you need an infield hit but your big name player is a home run hitter then you might just sub him out. Because home runs are great but infield hits are more dependable in a pinch.
ReplyDeleteOf course it says something about Carroll - precisely that he's not yet a particularly flexible footballer who can produce something for the team when tactics might be against him. You would hope he'll grow into that kind of role, but for now I don't see anyone disagreeing with the idea that he's a somewhat incomplete package.
What his transfer fee has to do with any of this is beyond me. The only people dwelling on that are fans and maybe his agent. Kenny isn't going to take it into account when making tactical decisions and what does it matter? It's in the past, the money is paid, the player is here. What vague importance does it have in the actual football that is being played? Nothing.
I dont think its right to critisize the manager for talking him off on the basis of him being 35 million, the price should mean nothing in team selections and substitutions. I however believe that Kenny got it wrong on both accounts on the game agaisnt Swansea. Firstly I dont know why Kuyt, Bellamy and even Maxi are no longer first choice as they have laways performed well. Most importantly we were tactically naive to play 442 when they played 452 and from early on, it was clear that midfield, in particualr Lucas and Adams were struggling agaisnt their mdfield. I think we should have changed to 452 by ptting Henderson in middle and move Suarez to right and later in second half bring Kuyt for henderson. Carroll should have stayed in. maybe Downing to be taken before him. if we had 5 midfleild then the full back had more confidence to go forward which would have helped Carrol.
ReplyDeleteJJ, our objective at the top of the season was to qualify for Champions League football. From our approach play, including getting run ragged in midfield at Anfield by a Swansea team with a poor away record is a very bad omen if we want to make the top four this season. I don't believe being unlucky is the main reason. I believe our overall play, our tactical approach to the game maybe a little naiive and dated like the Dalglish of the late 90s (Newcastle), not the one of the late 80s (Liverpool). The problem is bigger than not just putting away chances, the problem for the time being is more so managerial IMO. If it weren't for Suarez, a player Hodgson never had (and no I can't stand Roy), we may have been marginally better off now in contrast with last year. 3 points off fourth is one thing but I can't see Spurs letting up and I personally find it pathetic that Arsenal has gained momentum on us and they have a negative net transfer spend over the last three seasons. Our form should have carried on from last season and it's certainly not doing (even after spending over 100 million gross in the summer, but I digress). That's down to management. All I'm saying is that maybe Dalglish needs to feel the pressure more than he already has been to improve LFC's performances.
ReplyDeleteBarring Stevie G!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteRafa did n't have a team!
Rafa drew plenty of games in the league as simple as that and against weaker teams even with Torres and a fully fit Gerrard something Kenny has not had yet we were talking tactics and what a coach can do with what he has got.
Were you just a glory hunter then?
ReplyDeleteTorres openly split on Liverpool's jersey when He decided to let the Club for our richer rivals. He left the Club on January. He's a money grabbing without spine and it's disgusting to see some "so called fans" calling for a possible Torres' return in a player plus cash deal.
ReplyDeleteYou prioritise individuals over Club.
You're a really embarassament for Liverpool Football Club and If one day You would decide to support another Club I'll celebrate with a party.
Hello JK,
ReplyDelete*the most expensive player - so what? was he the best player on the field? he couldn't score and he was replaced ......big deal?
* the worst defensive record - ya but he still couldn't score and was playing like shit and the manager obviously wanted to try something different. You dont agree?
* its a must win game - so would u be happy if KD never made any changes or took out Suarez instead. Have u managed a team before? I doubt
You need to take a look at SAF teams they have a strong British influence mixed with foreign talent it is what is needed to win the league,look at Man citys team 5 or 6 ENGLISH players in the team surrounded by foreign premier league players who have had premier league experince like again Fergie likes to buy Cantona,Yorke,Valancia and Berbatov.Your arguement of British players are n't needed to win the league is pretty weak.
ReplyDeleteA player who is also can't score from 2 yards and an open goal!
ReplyDeleteTorres who misses from 2 yards and open goals and now has Mata and Meireles to supply him and he still looks like a donkey.
ReplyDeleteThat is what you get for putting in below par performances for your previous team and then think you can turn it on for your new club.
Also Torres missed 3 games after being sent off!
ReplyDeleteFeel the pressure? He has been feeling the pressure for the last 20 years and watching manager after manager fail to bring the league title home I don't think any fan can feel the pressure like a manager/coach does and wanting to bring success to this team and it takes a little longer then 11 games and a team that has showed in games can play together but need to play for ninety minutes.
ReplyDeleteI didn't criticise KD. In the article, I agree that it was the right decision to take Carroll off.
ReplyDeletelook jamies right ablind man could see carroll hasnt clicked id say dalglish knows he made a serious error in judgement he could have got a number of world class strikers for the same price of carroll
ReplyDeleteI never said that you don't need British players to win the title. Even without the home grown clause, every successful league team is, was & 'll be built with majority of local players, but must be built around 1/2 outstanding quality player, better if home grown, if not global. What KD is doing is giving a message that LFC is not a good place for non English players & my objection is there, as it's being used to ransom the fund we had been striving for so long. KD wanted an English speaking team, regardless of the quality & paid several times higher for ordinary players.
ReplyDeleteYes, we were handicapped for not qualifying for CL, but still, Mata was available, so was N'Zobia, may be Mario Gomez, Zapata, Zarate, Lavizi, who knows; that too after maintaining the Home Grown clause. Moreover, we off-loaded Mireales & Acqualini, I am sure to accommodate JH & SD; two very average players, hyped in the media only for the price tags.
SAF teams are British majority team, but never British only team. You 'll find almost always he has developed his team around 1/2 outstanding players, mostly foreigners. I think now Rooney is his top player (But he 'll not win the EPL this year), but previously he built the team around Cantona, RVN, CRod & always in key roles, like GK, CB, CM, CF he had quality foreign imports.
World Class means nothing in the Premier League ask Shevchenko,Crespo and Robinho all world class who could n't hack the premier league.
ReplyDeletea substitution can change the whole dynamics of a game, however I think our problem is the lack of service to the strikers, Bellamy should have come on, but at the expense of Downing and not Carroll
ReplyDeleteAND Torres Jamie?????
ReplyDeleteYou need to read your post again and say you were n't sticking the knive into British or English football?
ReplyDeleteIs n't that what I wrote about SAF in having a strong British mixed with foreign talent?
Do you mean Man City will win the league with their English players and foreign imports?
Kenny has brought British first and will buy more foreign imports he tried to sign Gomez before Carroll when Torres jumped ship also Nzogbia has been rubbish at Villa,Lavezzi is still at Napoli,Zarate went on loan to Inter so he could play Champions League football.Meireles should have been kept but Aquilani was always going to be going home I thought he was great under Rafa but he never really trusted him and then Roy sent him out on loan my be Kenny could have done more to keep him but after other managers have had players like Alonso,Mascherano,Torres and Yossie wanting to leave why keep a player that was unhappy.
Kanwar where's your reply?
ReplyDeleteKanwar's style is tedius, negative, overly critical (almost Alan Shearer, Lee Dixon..sit behind the couch)...but that is only my opinion which will probably be removed / moderated from this sight. Yullahstan dun get to know
ReplyDeleteahh the old play it in to the big man and knock down... yup pass and move is definitley back!
ReplyDeleteMore then one way to score a goal and it is one of Carrolls strengths he has had crosses put into him and he has headed them down Suarez needs to be wise to, what is wrong with that?
ReplyDeleteMaster tactician? Can win games with the players he had who were premier league players he was n't dealing with championship players or his imports all came from the top leagues and he still could n't beat lesser teams don't try and dress it up .
ReplyDeleteAnother pile of shite article from Cunt-war
ReplyDeletewe need adam johnson, will solve most our problems. then get a reliable centre back. whether that means giving coates a start more often i dont care.
ReplyDeletethings can only get better
Yep, said it many times before that we lack match winners. Right now the only players that are capable of doing that is Gerrard and Suarez. Hmmm, have Liverpool had a problem like this before or am I wrong? Bellamy and Kuyt are capable but they are not in the first team atm. Liverpool just gotta work harder, and be more confident. There no use in crying over player transfer mistakes although that may be the root cause of Liverpool's demise.
ReplyDeleteRafa didn't have a team ? We were seeded No.1 in Europe for two or three years under him and he didn't really ever get a bean to spend.Can you even imagine us making the top 10 in Europe after the Swansea debacle ?
ReplyDeleteKranny - Come on man, this article, although an opinion, is not really needed. We can all see why KK took Andy off. To try something new. Its a must win game, i agree, but if the tactic isnt working then try plan B. Does not mean he doesnt have faith, because if he did Carroll would not have started.
ReplyDeleteI personally believe that the formation we played against Manure is the best. Leave Carroll on the bench and play him as an impact player. Yes, he cost 35mill, but at the moment we play to the style of Suarez. Why? Because a lot of what he does dictates the momentum of our games, (which works better) so we play to his strengths. Which is nothing like how Carroll plays.So really, in a nutshell, I feel KK does have faith in Carroll but there is only so much the Geordie can do. If it doesnt work, try something new. To us as fans, he cost 35mill so he has to be played game in game out to justify his value. (otherwise why buy him.. A question a lot of us have asked since his purchase but thats another big discussion) To the manager, its about what works on the pitch. Luckily we dont have a club structure like Chelsea where you have to play your 50mill player because the owner is breathing down your neck. Instead we do what works.For all these reasons, it is why i love LFC.... Mikey
Part of the problem is the service at the moment. I was watching the game and on numerous occasion that other donkey Adam was looping long balls to the centre of the box for Carrol to do something with it. What a waste of possession. Adam needs to be shipped out fast he offers nothing other than set piece plays and many of those ei. free kicks , corners against Swansea were ...lets just say appalling. My point is what is the benefit of hitting a 40 - 50 yard pass from the middle of the park in the hope that someone will control it and do something with it. Play pass and move the long ball game is gone and once the ball is lost our midfielders and forwards are out of position.
ReplyDeletedont comapare benitez with dalglish.dalglish has no style and if he has its too boring
ReplyDeletethe best comment i ve heared recently
ReplyDeleteJamie I completely agree with you in everything you have said, but Chelsea's defensive might? You gotta be joking. Chelsea is playing ala FCP ala FCB that is pressing and defending high up the pitch. I am not saying Terry, Ivanovic or Luiz is no good but they are no Puyol, Pique or Otamendi. But of the 3 probably only Luiz has any chance of catching a fast poacher who has latched on a through ball beating an offside trap. I would really love to see Chelsea's defensive might against Aston Villa.
ReplyDeleteThis season, Chelsea's defence is perhaps not as solid as usual, but over the last 10 years, Chelsea have conceded the fewest goals of all Premier League teams, and they regularlry have the best defensive record.
ReplyDeleteBring Rafa Back Enough Said !!! Tatical Genius would have bought the likes of Mata, Silva, Jovectic And David Villa in with the money kennys had ... these signings would have kept his key players happy Gerrard, Reina and defo Torres it also would of allowed the likes of aquilani to play pressure free doing what he does best play great passes Rafa back end of but my love for the king remains high !
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you on the fact that lucas is blocking the place of a player that could have brought more to the team...Henderson had created the 3rd most chances in the league for sunderland playing there in the middle and I presume its because of those stats that comoli wanted the player. So why the heck play him wide when he can`t play well there and not try trying playing him were he will obviously be more familiar and at ease and hence exert a better influence on the match? Henderson(until gerrard is back) should play with adam in central. Having any other combination for our central midfield is only gonna decrease our probability of creating chances and thus scoring goals...Kenny better drop this shitty player called Lu-crap, sorry lu-cas, or we are gonna struggle more especially against the likes of mancity and chelsea soon.
ReplyDeleteHere are some of the stats for last year in the epl:
Henderson-key passes 78(3rd), assists 4, goals ?
Adam-key passes 64 (9th),assists 8(10th), goals 12
Downing-key passes 78(3rd), assists 7, goals 7
Gerrard was injured most of the time but still managed 48 key passes and 5 assist.
Luc-ass`chances created and goals or assists in his whole carreer could all be counted on one hand. Thats not good enough to be part of a midfield in a team challenging for honours.