Former Liverpool manager Roy Evans was disappointed by Jack Rodwell's sending off during the club's 2-0 win at Goodison, and believes referee Martin Atkinson made a 'poor decision' underpinned by a lack of common sense.
It's refreshing to hear Evans be so forthright and honest about the issue:
"Happy with the three points, but I didn’t think it was a great game; the referee probably spoiled it in terms of an actual contest by sending the lad off after 20 minutes. I thought it was a poor decision whichever way you look at it.
"The lad gets the ball; he went in with one leg, and the other was way behind him. Maybe he catches Suarez somewhere, but I can’t see a sending off in that. The referee was placed in the right position, and he saw everything.
"You have to be a special referee to referee a derby match; you have to be prepared to be in control of it, and have common sense, and for me, the game was finished after that. You just felt Liverpool would win. Eventually, they just wore Everton down".
Jaimie Kanwar
It's refreshing to hear Evans be so forthright and honest about the issue:
"Happy with the three points, but I didn’t think it was a great game; the referee probably spoiled it in terms of an actual contest by sending the lad off after 20 minutes. I thought it was a poor decision whichever way you look at it.
"The lad gets the ball; he went in with one leg, and the other was way behind him. Maybe he catches Suarez somewhere, but I can’t see a sending off in that. The referee was placed in the right position, and he saw everything.
"You have to be a special referee to referee a derby match; you have to be prepared to be in control of it, and have common sense, and for me, the game was finished after that. You just felt Liverpool would win. Eventually, they just wore Everton down".
Jaimie Kanwar
Jaimie I still don't understand. When we get a bad decision everybody (you included) says we can not use it as an excuse and must just get on with it and accept that bad decisions are part of the game. When we get a decision in out favour you use it to (strangely) excuse the opposition and take away from our victory. Very strange indeed
ReplyDeleteYou have written three articles in the last 24 hrs about how disgraceful the red card was. Very little was written after the Stoke game
ReplyDeleteEverton approached the game in a very physical manner, there was 4 or 5 wreckless tackles in the first half. Liverpool were a lot more composed. Players shouldn't give referees the option to dish out cards
ReplyDeleteCarra put an arm across Walters against Stoke and gave the ref the option to give a penalty. Players and managers have to take responsibility too
Ref was positioned directly behind Rodwell and must not have seen the critical part of the tackle and assumed bad contact was made
He also allowed Hibbert away with an awful challenge, should've been a red. Fellaini also escaped a yellow or red for the challenge on Lucas
Referees and linesmen have an impossible job
If we are not going to use technology we either have to just accept that referees are only human and will make mistakes or increase the number of officials at games
Tennis employs numerous umpires to cover each of the tram lines, base lines etc
It's unfair to expect 3 officials to cover a whole pitch. Referees should sue the Prem League for providing unsuitable work conditions
I don't see your point. The decisions in the Everton game were far more contentious. What should I have written after the Stoke game?
ReplyDeleteI've written about the positives in the Everton game too, but you mysteriously neglect to mention that.
No, there's a difference. There are dodgy decisions that affect everyone and are just part and parcel of the game, then there are extraordinarily negligent and damaging decisions like the Everton red card that are just bad for football as a whole. Such decisions needs to be highlighted IMO.
ReplyDeleteI have not 'used it to excuse the opposition' in any way. I'm not even sure what you mean by that. And such decisions do (IMO) take something away from the victory because it was achieved in the wrong circumstances.
Roy Evans said exactly the same as me - he is a former Liverpool manager and closely connected to the club; is he 'excusing the opposition' too?
No, he's just being honest, which is the way it should be.
Jaimie we had 2 clear as day penalties turned down vs stoke and one dodgy one given against us. I think that counts as game changing. I just think its strange that you focus so much more on the red card incident than the victory and 3 pts. What about the excellent performance of Lucas and Enrique, Carroll getting off the mark or even the good work done by Kelly? The ref has one fraction of a second to decide penalty decision but the same applies to red card decisions. He obviously saw something worthy of a red card so he gave it. To do otherwise would be dishonest
ReplyDeleteArabee - I have references all of those positives in my articles at some point. It's not my style to write big, effusive, ego-massing posts about how wonderful Liverpool are; I prefer to pick out specific instances from games and focus on those.
ReplyDeleteAnd you conveniently forget that I've written lots of positive stuff about LFC this season. After the 4-0 defeat to Spurs, I wrote an entire post praising Dalglish, when the easier thing would've been to look at the negatives.
Re Stoke - those issues are not as serious as the red card; they happen to every team, and Liverpool have also benefited from such decisions over the years.
Losing a man after 23 minutes is in a different league of seriousness.
I write about the things that interest me the most, and there are generally underlying themes behind the stuff I write about.
In this situation, it's the principle of fairness: I don't think it's right to gloat at another team's expense, or go overboard with the ego-massage when the game was ostensibly won because of a damaging, totally unfair red card.
It's great to get the three points, but it's a Pyrrhic victory overall.
'Refs should sue for unsuitable working conditions'. Good one :-)
ReplyDeleteI agree that refs and linesmen have an impossible job, and in most cases, they should be given the benefit of the doubt. In this case though, I think Atkinson deserves major criticism, and a temporary demotion to the Championship.
I know you write positive articles Jaimie and the reason I come here is because other sites offer nothing unique. I just think in this case you are being a little harsh. It takes the same amount of time to make pen or red card decisions. I think the use of the word pyrrhic is particularly overboard. It was not our fault the ref gave the red. Should we demand that the F.A organise a replay? Anyway keep up the good work
ReplyDeleteI can certainly see why you think I'm being a little harsh, and I apologise for that. It's just the way my mind works unfortunately (!)
ReplyDeleteI think you're right about the split-second nature of the penalty/red card decisions, I just think we disagree on the relative importance of the Stoke/Everton issues.
Thats exactly why we never won a League under Roy , he never had the balls to call a spade a spade , all he wanted was a quiet life & to be popular .
ReplyDeleteRodwell went in studs up 100 mph on Suarez right under the referees nose .
It was a stupid boyish blunder by a stupid boy .
Nobody can deny that there was heavy contact & if Suarez had have seen the tackle coming just a split second later he would have had his leg broke .
It was a dirty tackle , it had intent , he made heavy contact with the player & he done it right under the referees nose .
Its only because it was against everybodys favorite whipping boy Liverpool that people are saying it was a bad decision .
Hibbet should have been red carded too & so should Cahill & Jagielka .
Roy Evans is a disgrace & any so called supporter not standing up for the protection of Saurez , Lucas & Adam deserves nothing but another trophy-less season in mid table looking at the relegation trap door .
Our Supporters are shit .
Not just the worst in the League or the Worst in Britain , we are the worst in Europe .
Referees are routinely placed in an impossible position where are essentially set up to fail and often suffer very public derision
ReplyDeleteIf my boss/employer put me in that position I'm going straight to HR and then my union if necessary
Referees could enforce rule changes if they went on strike en bloc, I've emailed the referee association. I'll let you know if they get back to me
Here's an excerpt from Premier League's own website
Are referees professional?
Referees have been professional for a number of years now, in that
they have been paid for the matches they referee. However, since the
start of the 2001/2 season, referees also receive a retainer fee and are
obliged to attend a number of training sessions organised by the
Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL). This does not mean
that they work exclusively for PGMOL though, with most referees also
working in other professions during the week
Email that i sent to Referee's associationTo whom it may concernI am a football fan who has grown utterly tired of the attitude of the media, players and managers to refereesThe mechanics of football make it near impossible for 3 officials to see everything
ReplyDeleteReferees are routinely placed in an impossible position where
are essentially set up to fail and often suffer very public derision
If my boss/employer put me in that position I'm going straight to HR and then my union if necessary
Referees could enforce rule changes if they went on strike en bloc
What
is required is either the swift introduction of TV replays for
contentious situations or vast increase in the number of match officials
Some of the contentious issues this weekend alone- Rodwell red card
- Disallowed Norwich goal that appeared to cross the line
- Disallowed Wolves goal due to the ball being adjudged to have gone out of play just prior
- Steven Taylor's foul on Jaimie O' Hara that should have been a penalty
- Tony Hibbert's dreadful tackle on Charlie Adam
Referees need help, and it's time they helped themselves!!
We never won the league with Evans because we couldn't afford to bring in elite players from across Europe, with no Champions League available for also-rans or financial advantage for us over foreign leagues.
ReplyDeleteThat he didn't have an eye for defenders was another problem, but his gentlemanly approach to the game was never a major problem for us.
Liverpool really do have a lot of d*ck-head fans and you are clearly one of them Brehon
You have obviously only started supporting us yesterday .
ReplyDeleteEvans out spent Ferguson at Utd during his spell in charge with us & he bought Phil Babb & John Scales , 2 of the very best defenders in the League , he also brought through Rob Jones if he didnt buy him so clearly finance & the quality of defenders wasnt the problem .
As for so called Elite players from Europe ?
The only truly world class player still in his prime who came from Europe & was playing in the Premier League back then was Dennis Bergkamp .
Cantona was a cast off who hadn't ever played for a decent sized club before he came to England let alone was a full regular international .
Even at that Evans signed the superb Karl Heinze Ridle , one of the most respected players in the world at the time .
The quality of Evans squad was never in question & only a complete idiot could question a forward line that mixed & matched Fowler, Rush & Collymore being provided by McManaman , Barnes , Berger , Redknapp & Mc Ateer supported by Jones , Scales , Ruddock & Babb at the back with David James in Goal !
Not just because they were all great individual players am I saying this but because of the scintillating Football we played under Evans & the great squad we had , we are without doubt the very best side in History to never win a League title .
It was under Evans we became known as the Spice Boys , it was under Evans we became soft bellied nearly men & that is the foundations our foreign managers inherited & it isnt until Kennys return that some club discipline , pride & traditional unapologetic naked ambition has started to return .
Evans was a great judge of player , he was tactically superb & he had the clubs blood in his veins but what he didnt have was a set of balls big enough to put his foot down & tell his star players that they weren't pop princess's off the field & that they had a responsibility to the club & us fans to live their lives in a more professional manner .
While Utd who were winning Leagues & Cups had Scholes , the Nevilles & Beckham boring the world to tears with their mateurity we had Cocaine Allegations , fowler & McManaman on the front pages accused of having a 3 in a bed romp with some slag from Essex they picked up in a bar in London , a goal keep er who had a modeling contract & in fighting amongst the players the worst of which resulted in Ruddock breaking Fowlers nose with a punch at an airport .
The Press scented blood & slowly but surly we became a joke & have remained so from then until now .
Evans is a great old school football man & he was a great no 2 but he was a weak manager & his comments about the Everton game where he failed to acknowledge the lack of protection our players were getting is simply disgraceful .
He hasnt even got the balls to contradict a know nothing journalist & allowed himself to be led into embarrassing all of us connected to the club in any way shape or form .
Nice one, Simon. Should be interesting to see if you get a reply!
ReplyDeleteAt what point do you acknowledge that its a sport ?
ReplyDeleteA Sport PLAYED by humans , I say again ...
PLAYED !
This isnt accountancy or computer science where everything has to be exact .
It is a game .
I say again ...
GAME !
They are talking points not starting points to a campaign to wipe out all professional sport to have it replaced by scripted computer generated figures
Lighten up a bit .
Did Evans just finish managing Liverpool yesterday?? If not, then I'm not sure how you think your opening statement makes any sense at all.
ReplyDeleteI don't have time to go through your whole post, but I'll just reiterate yet again - under Roy Evans we were consistently a top 4 team. We played some of the best football in the league, but were held back by our defensive failings. Pretty much equivalent to Arsenal of recent years. For that we were rightly regarded as failures.
After Evans left (and a few years of Houllier) the rules changed and maintaining a place in the top 4 allowed entry into the Champions League. The money started to flow into the Premiership and the opportunity to bring in better players from abroad became available. The quality of football deteriorated considerably (in my opinion) with nothing in return, seeing as we've remained as also-rans pretty much every year.
You say that Evans was responsible for the 'soft bellied' foundation of our team, but he also left behind a classy club that played some of the best football around and it didn't take long to change that image did it! Yet you're saying it's taken over 10 years, all of those advantages handed out by UEFA and Sky, and hundreds of millions of pounds for the foreign managers to instill a winner's mentality into the squad again?
You're criticisms of Evans for speaking what he considers to be the truth, are just nonsensical. And I'm not embarassed by his words on this occassion in any way, shape, or form
If you didnt understand the relevance of my opening statement that its clear you dont realize how stupid you appear to a genuine supporter who clearly thinks yer a fashion victim arm chair fan who only just recently gave up following boy bands & decided to "Support" LFC instead .
ReplyDeleteYour reference to "Elite" players from Europe & a lack of funding revealed you as such & I pointed out as much by referring to Evans spending & the fact Bergkamp was the only genuine top class foreigner in the League back then .
So it is obvious your knowledge of the club is either very limited or you have read it from a book because if you were around back then you would know what I have said is factual & wouldnt have posted the drivil you just did about Arsenal .
As for the rest of the perverted nonsense you spewed ?
You may be happy to present yerself as my argumentative ex wife in public , but I'm not happy to be associated with it , so I suggest ya take it back to tha hairdressers with ya , coz I'm not going anywhere that word mincing , twisted jumble of lies .
What I said is there for all to see in black & white just as your perverted interpretation of it is & with behaviour like that its no surprise to me that you dont find Evans recent mealy mouthedness an embarrassment because its very difficult to embarrase someone who has no pride .
We all are aware Poor Talibanis have been betrayed by pakistanDo u think American Decision to make Peace with poor Talibanis right
ReplyDelete