11/24/2010 06:25:00 pm

RYAN BABEL: Still suffering the negative impact of the 'Benitez Effect'...

During Rafa Benitez's reign as Liverpool manager I often wrote about a negative phenomenon known as the 'Benitez Effect'. One of the regular victims of that very real issue was Ryan Babel, and judging by his latest comments today, he's still suffering the residual impact of his constant alienation at the hands of Liverpool's former manager.

With his questionable man-management skills, Rafa Benitez misused and/or alienated a whole host of players during his reign including Peter Crouch, Stephane Henchoz, Sami Hyypia, John Arne Riise, Stephen Warnock, Robbie Keane, Yossi Benayoun, Ryan Babel, Xabi Alonso, Albert Riera and Alberto Aquilani.

Today, Babel has revealed another example of how the 'Benitez Effect' manifested itself in practice:

"I wasn't allowed to train extra under our former manager, even when I wasn't involved. I begged lots of times but it was simply not allowed and during the season you don't train very hard because you have lots games, so most sessions we had were without sweating.

"But if I wanted to do some extra, which I asked for every single day, I didn't have permission. It was confusing of course because of course you want to get better. I even tried to train extra by doing it secretly, but the assistant manager came to tell me to stop".


It really is scandalous how a player who wants to improve can actually be prevented from doing extra training. Such an attitude should be applauded, not slapped down. Not that any of this is surprising to me; it was par for the course under Benitez, who treated a whole host of players badly.

What is the 'Benitez Effect'?


Benitez Effect (noun) – Negligent misuse of - and/or - alienation of Liverpool FC football players, to the detriment of the team, resulting in demotivation, recrimination and, ultimately, a desire to (prematurely) leave the club.

Characteristics of the 'Benitez Effect': Can include some or all of the following:

* Inexplicably (and regularly) being dumped on the bench.
* Inexplicably (and regularly) being substituted for no good reason.
* Inexplicably (and regularly) being dropped after scoring/creating goals.
* Regularly being sidelined despite having a consistent positive impact.
* Regularly being played out of position.
* Never being given a fair run in the team.
* Not being allowed to build an effective understanding with team-mates.
* Being treated shabbily at the end of an LFC career (i.e. Riise/Hyypia)
* Occasionally being subject to unfair public criticism.

* Regularly being ignoring in favour of Benitez's on-field yes-men - i.e. 'athletes' who run 50 miles a game; do what they're told to the letter but contribute next no nothing for large stretches of the season.

Ryan Babel and the 'Benitez Effect'

After nearly 2 years of suffering as a result of the 'Benitez Effect', the then Holland coach Marco Van Basten criticised Rafael Benitez’s handling of Babel, noting that the player had taken a step backward since his arrival at Anfield. Van Basten argued:

“If you look at Ryan Babel, it is a mortal sin he now sits on the bench at Liverpool. He was playing well in Holland and for the Under-21s but now he has taken a step backwards.”

In the same week, Babel made his frustration clear:

"I have tried to talk to the manager but it isn't of any use. I couldn't really do anything with the feedback [he] gave me. We have agreed to look at my situation during the winter. If there's no improvement then, I have to be honest, I want to play somewhere else. I don't play a lot so I can't be happy and I can't cheer out loud.

"Certain emotions are blocked, they are pushed back by all the worries I carry with me. Sometimes I wonder how long I can sustain it but I will fight for my position - what else can I do?".


Babel's frustration over being subjugated by Benitez spilled out on other occasions too:

"There have been a lot of things promised but they haven't been followed up," Babel said. "I would get to play for more minutes and have more chances but, after the first defeat, I lost my place.

Babel cost £11.5m and inarguably has/had huge potential; the question is was he given the chance to fulfil that potential under Benitez?

The answer is clearly NO.

The 'Benitez Effect' and its impact on Babel

Let’s consider some facts about Babel (I compiled these figures in November 2009, so the analysis runs from 2007 when Babel signed until November 2009):

2007-08: Babel’s first season

53 appearances

Starts - 29
On the bench - 24 times
Subbed – 21 times
Unused sub – 4 games
Goals - 11
Assists - 6

Minutes on pitch: 2553
Average minutes on pitch: 48
Goals per minute - 1/232
Goals/Assists per minute: 1 every 150 minutes

Analysis

- Subbed or on the bench in 82% of games
- Subbed in 72% of games started
- Scored 11 goals. On 10 occasions, dropped to the bench for the next game.

VERDICT: A good first season. 11 goals and 6 assists (despite being in and out of the team) was an excellent return for a midfielder. The potential was there, and obvious next step was to develop the potential in Babel's second season.

2008-09

42 appearances

Starts – 13
On the bench – 29 times
Subbed – 4 times
Unused sub – 6 times
Goals - 4
Assists - 5

Minutes on pitch: 1542
Average minutes on pitch: 36
Goals per minute - 1/385
Goals/Assists per minute: 1 every 171 minutes

Analysis

- Subbed or on the bench in 79% of games
- Subbed in 30% of games started
- 70% of games won with Babel starting
- Never started more than 2 games in a row for the entire season

VERDICT: As a reward for a good first season, Babel's pitch time was cut by 60%! Great man-management there. Instead of developing Babel, Benitez demotivated the player, and this was obvious from his diminished creative return.

2009-10 (Until November 29th)

17 appearances

Starts – 4
On the bench – 13 times
Subbed – 4 times
Unused sub – 3 times

Goals - 3
Assists - 2

Minutes on pitch: 478
Average minutes on pitch: 28
Goals per minute: 1/159
Goals/Assists per minute: 1 every 95 minutes

Analysis

- Subbed or on the bench in 100% of games
- Subbed in 100% of games between August and November 2009.

VERDICT UP TO NOV 29th 2009
: Babel's pitch time was cut again; Benitez continued to demotivate the player, who twice expressed his growing frustration in the public (and the rest of the season continued with this pattern).

GRAND TOTALS: 2007 - 29th November 2009

* To be honest, I haven't had the time to sift through the remainder of the figures for 2009-10, but I'll update this as soon as I can. It doesn't change the downward trend though, and the figures will show this when I update this article.

110 appearances

46 Starts
On the bench: 64 times
Subbed: 29 times
Unused sub: 13 times
Goals - 18
Assists - 13

Total minutes on pitch: 4573
Average minutes on pitch: 41

Average goals per minute: 1/254
Average goals/assists per minute: 1/147

Analysis

- Subbed or on the bench in 85% of games
- Subbed in 63% of starts
- Average minutes on pitch decreasing every year:

* 07-08: Average 48 mins
* 08-09: Average 36 mins
* 09-10: Average 28 mins

- Dirk Kuyt minutes on pitch for 2008-9 only: 4509
- Babel minutes on pitch since arrival in 2007 (to November 29th 2009): 4573
- Dirk Kuyt minutes on pitch since arrival: 13121

Fair Treatment?

With these figures in mind, consider the following questions:

1. Was Babel been given any kind of chance to establish himself at Liverpool under Benitez?

2. Was he been allowed to flourish in any way?
3. Was he been allowed a consistent run of games *ever*?

4. Given the fact that in his first season, he was dropped to the bench TEN TIMES after scoring goals, was he been treated fairly in this respect? (the same pattern has repeated itself every season whenever Babel scores/creates goals).

5. Was there any justification for the unfair treatment of Babel?

6. Did Benitez develop Babel's undoubted potential?

7. Was the blatant favouritism shown towards Dirk Kuyt and Lucas justifiable? Both players were given every opportunity to play themselves into form, yet Babel struggled to start two games in a row.

Fans often seem to criticise Babel for his alleged lack of drive during his sporadic appearances, but how would you react if your manager damaged your career, never gave you a fair chance, constantly played you in the wrong position, and made it abundantly clear that he had no faith in you?

In my view, Benitez ruined Babel; it's clear that the player barely has any self-belief left these days, and I seriously doubt that he will ever be able to recover his form and confidence whilst at Anfield.

For the sake of his career, he needs to move on.

Jaimie Kanwar


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156 Comments :

Yeah said...

But what are his stats under Hodgson's supposedly excellent man management skills? The truth is Babel has a poor attitude. He'll be sold in Jan or summer and no doubt will ply his trade at a lesser team. I doubt he'll ever make it at a 'top' club

Bob said...

To an extent I do agree with much written however, I expected him to be a regular under Woy which hasn't happened, in fact I hear less about him now. There surely must be something we areissing as Woy is well known for getting the best out of players

Ben Dover said...

If Babel had been more interested in improving his first touch or his positional play, he'd have been given the chances he would then have deserved. Instead, he has been more interested in rapping and his 'posse'.
If anyone is to blame for Babel's lack of progress, it's Babel.
He has never convinced me that he deserves a place in the team, even when he has been playing regularly.
Plenty of other players developed massively (Gerrard, Carragher, Torres, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso, Arbeloa, Insua to name a few) under Benitez so clearly your so-called 'Benitez effect' only affects certain players... odd that. Or perhaps not?

wayne smith said...

he seems to drop the lip a bit to easy but would love to see him given a run off game

jojo said...

Yet we see Hodgson alienating Agger, Johnson, Pacheco, Reina & Torres all within 6 months.

Babel is simple not up to the task.

jojo said...

Yet we see Hodgson alienating Agger, Johnson, Pacheco, Reina & Torres all within 6 months.

Babel is simple not up to the task.

jojo said...

Yet we see Hodgson alienating Agger, Johnson, Pacheco, Reina & Torres all within 6 months.

Babel is simple not up to the task.

redman said...

tedious
the lads got an attitude problem and has no football brain. he has skill but thats not enough.

i cant believe you posted that much info about babel's mins/time under benitez,bizzare.

obsessed....

Jay Wright said...

Everybody claims that Babel has a bad attitude but I've seen no evidence of it - he's tried to change into a more defensively responsible player (at the expense of his attacking play) and is no more of a liability defensively than any of our other "wide men".  From being a highly regarded attacking prospect, he has been turned into a bench warming defensive winger under Benitez and now a reserve under Hodgson, yet he has made no attacks on the clubs or our managers, just merely a few comments that he would like to move on if he can't play.

He then gets compared to Kuyt as an example of how a pro should conduct himself - but people forget, Kuyt has never had to fight for his place in our team!  Even when he went a whole season with just one goal from open play, he never had to wait his turn on the bench, and so doesn't actually have anything to complain about!  As long as players are playing frequently, they tend to be happy with their lot - irrespective of any views from the fans or pundits, all that matters to a player is that his manager trusts him and plays him.  I do happen to remember him criticising his NATIONAL team coach as soon as he was dropped for a couple of games so I don't buy into all this "perfect pro" b.s. that is spouted out by all and sundry tbh...  

FWIW, I think that Babel has displayed considerable restraint to bite his tongue and be as patient as he has been at Liverpool

Marvin108 said...

Babel is not good enough for Liverpool FC, he can be skilful at times but his attitude is what is lacking severly. He should be sold in the next transfer window and get some real quality in to strenghten the squad.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Why is his attitude 'lacking severely'?  Please explain this. 

Given the way Benitez treated him, do you not think that could've had an impact on his motivation, morale and self-belief?

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Typical baseless lies.

Please explain with examples why he has an 'attitude problem'.

Dan said...

Oh, how we are scraping the barrel to point the finger at Benitez, you really are clutching at straws now.

The guy is not just inconsistent in his performances, he is inconsistent from one touch to the next ... he has scored thirty yarders and then taken a shot minutes after scoring and managed to put the ball out for a throw in...he can beat a player with close control and the balll can jump 15 yards off his toe when he is running with no one around him! We all want  him to do well but even you need must starting to believe the guy just isn't good enough..Rafa left months ago, are you suggesting that he has psychologically damaged this lad to the extent that he can't put in a decent training session in front of your beloved RH (after all, if he was doing it in training in front of the boss wouldn't he have given him more opportunities?)....give me us a break..your article is laughable.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Please post quotes or direct evidence showing that Hodgson has alienated any of the above.  for every player I mention, I have provided endless personal quotes that illustrate how Benitez alienated them (in various articles).

Where is your proof?  and I don't mean sensationalised articles that contain no quotes.

Torres said this the other day:

"The squad here trusts in Roy Hodgson, and so do I. I have no problems with the manager at all, he has always trusted in me and that’s very important to any footballer"

Clearly the views of someone who has been alienated by the manager.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Dan - if you think the article is 'laughable' why don't you leave this site and go somewhere else?

If you post anything else containing comments like that you will be banned.  Make your points; drop the personal commentary.


the guy is not just inconsistent in his performances, he is inconsistent from one touch to the next

You see - this is a prime example of your not being fair.  Considering everything I've outlined in the article; the evidence of Benitez's mishandling of Babel; do you not think that his inconsistent form may be due to the fact that he was COMPLETELY MISMANAGED and utterly demotivated by Benitez?!

The fact he wasn't allowed to do extra training sessions cuts no ice with you, right?  it's all Babel's fault.

Yeah said...

Poor attitude doesn't just equal bad mouthing the club. Watch him play. He has talent no doubt but is lazy on the pitch. Kuyt is the opposite. Less natural ability but puts 100% in every time

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Typically baseless.
 
Please explain with examples why he has an 'attitude problem'.

?F?F?FF? said...

In 12 months time will you be writing one of these columns about Pacheco, Agger, Johnson, Reina and the "Hodgson Effect" ?

oh no You'll still be having a go at Benitez wont ya ? obsessed WUM

Dixie222 said...

I agree with some of the comments made, however I believe sometimes alot rests with the player. He nees to go and read up on his history, namely David Fairclough. Yes he wasnt first choice, but when he got his chance he took it. Babbel has all the right attributes for the premiership, Pace, power, skill but sometimes will become a passenger in the team, instead of trying to be proactive and drive forward, head comes down and he stops. As for the extra training, sometimes you can over train and if he has been repeatedly told not to train extra and got caught training in secret and subsequently told people, this tells you he cannot be relied upon to take orders correctly. Whats the point of having a world class player if he is going to go against what your saying and do his own thing. Maybe and attitude problem but you may be right, he may have been alienated by Benitez. The striking fact is, Roy has not played him, Benitez did not play him, No one wants to buy him, so it must be something with his mentallity or attitude as we can all see he has great potential but fails to live up to it snd managers do not select him for some reason.

Jay Wright said...

I see him chasing back quite a lot tbh - he just doesn't get any credit for it because he is quick and appears to close the opponent down pretty easily, or he makes a clumsy challenge and risks giving away the foul.  

He doesn't constantly break out of the team shape and go sprinting around after defenders by himself, but then again neither do Maxi or Meireles when they're out wide, and I've not heard any complaints about their "attitude".  I just keep hearing compliments for everybody else vacating the wings and leaving the team with no width unless the full back takes on that responsibility, while Babel is held to an entirely different standard...

twattfaddler said...

uh twitter anyone uh obvious lack of commitment on the pitch uh no footballing brain ...uh rubbish player..uh not picked by your mate hodgson very often

all this asking for proof is just the mark of someone trying to be as difficult as possible.  its embarrassing

Guest said...

If what you say is correct, then why is he not playing under RH.

Guest said...

I thought this is all in the past with RH coming. The big question is why RH is not trusting him who prefers Ngog over him.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

How can three years of sytematic demotivation and lack of faith be all in the past in a matter of months?!  It has a psychological impact; Babel's confidence was completely shattered under Benitez, and it will take time to rebuild.  It doesn't just appear again just because Benitez is gone.  He's used to having a manager showing no faith in him whatsoever, and this has affected him.

Yes, Babel has to take responsibility for himself but he needs a new start.  Liverpool is forever tainted for him now - he needs to go to a different club to revitalise his career.

sumon said...

Why obssesed? These stats are far more uesfull in the context of this discussion than your comment about him having an attitude problem. Quality stats and analysis are one of the hallmarks of this site.

I for one am pleased this article has been written. The stats demonstrate that when Babel arrived his success was not rewarded. These figures are far more insightfull than unproven comments such as 'babel has an attitude problem'.

I feel for the player..he continually gets abused for being lazy, not training enough, not been focused etc. This revelation today has shown that he wanted to do extra training and was told he wasnt able to...madness!

Babel is a young man thats had a rough time at LFC. people who spout inanities such as 'well he gets paid 60k a week so it can't b that difficult for him' etc are missing the point. The money is not the issue, most players at top clubs earn big bucks..thats a constant of the game. Of more importance is the value a player feels and his morale especailly to young players just starting out in their careers.

Kb said...

Benitez effect isn't a noun, it is a phrase coined by a dimwitted, agenda driven, obsessed hypocrite who has a incorrect sense of entitlement about his writing. Hope this helps.

sumon said...

Totally agree with your comments!

twattfaddler said...

why cant he call the article laughable.  its a comment on what he read is it not?  do you want him to prove its laughable by him sending you a video of him laughing whilst reading your article?

Could the 'Benitez factor' not have a mre positive spin?  the improvement in gerrard, the increase in torres' scoring ratio (unless your going to come back with a list of stats including goals scored in the playground of his madrid school) the improvement in ngog.

i think you should get over teh fat that babel is not very good, and also get over that rafa is gone

sumon said...

Jay..totally agree with your comments!

Kb said...

Ps. Everything you have accused Benitez of, hodgson is guilty of too. Best not write anything bad about Roy though should it be deemed 'traitorous'.

Guest said...

Agger said: "<span> "The manager has a philosophy that we're playing football further up the pitch and then you have to play a different kind of football at the back. </span><span>That's not my style. That's not the type of football player I am. I like to keep the ball on the ground. And I'm going to keep doing that. Whether he'll use me or not, time will tell."</span>

Hodgson has picked Agger to start just three Premier League games this season.

Pacheco continues to impress in the reserves (great goal against Everton this week) and yet is continually overlooked.
Elsewhere on this site you make a big complaint about ruining young players... and yet you give Roy a free ride for failing to give this big talent any real chance to prove himself on the big stage.

Hodgson & Johnson had a very well publicised public debate about the right-back's form. If Rafa had slagged off any of his players I am sure that would have been labelled 'alienating' on here... instead it is now classed as 'correct criticism' when Roy does the same thing.

Torres & Reina may or may not be happy with the manager, but if not they have been professional enough to keep their thoughts private.
It's much easier to slag someone off when he is no longer in charge of the team.

If and when Hodgson departs we may well hear some equally harsh comments from members of the current squad.

sumon said...

twatfaddler

Saying things like 'uh twitter, uh rubbish player' etc are just meaningless comments that lack any type of thought.  And why shouldn't Jaimie ask for proof..isnt that the whole point of a debate....why is that in any way embarrasing?

J said...

Ryan Babel arrived a player brimming with potential on the back of an excellent u21 tournament but hasn't really fufilled his potential - plain and simple.

I think he has many of the key characteristics to be successful - pace, height, skill, first touch, good finishing and sometimes good link up play. However, for a guy as tall and big as he is - he can't outmuscle, hold up the ball. He is often tactically naive and fails to make the right choices. Often lacks end product and can be wasteful!

When he comes off the bench sometimes he can be very good and have an instant impact on the team impetus but often fails to perform when starting games.

Maybe he would have fufilled his potential under a different manager but it seems not only Benitez but also Hodgson believes something is not quite right. Only 3 appearances under Hodgson - not just the Benitez effect!

Benitez was a good manager and it continually infuriates me that naive people can't recognise progress. The team until his last season were playing the best football I have seen since the 1980's and yeah he made mistakes but what manager hasn't!!

<span><img></img></span> Premier League FA Cup League Cup Europe Total Liverpool

(Premier League)
2007–08 30 4 4 1 2 0 13 5 49 10 2008–09 27 3 3 0 2 0 10 1 42 4 2009–10 25 4 1 0 2 0 10 2 38 6 2010–11 3 0 0 0 0 0 3 1 6

1

roadender said...

the bit about the benitez effect that I agree with is, was the never ending series of players that Rafa tried to convert into playing in a different position. Some worked,  Kuyt - striker to winger/midfielder, Carra full back to centre back and others didn't, Babel - striker to winger, Lucas - attacking midfielder to defensive midfielder. However both Kuyt and Babel were poor as strikers but Rafa persevered with both as he must have seen their potential to improve the team. The fact is that Babal is a reluctant winger and has continually stated his preference for playing up front, whereas Kuyt took his new role with such gusto that he established himself as first choice in that role with the Dutch national side.
However, the benitez effect is still prevelant at the club and is much deeper rooted, especially when you hear reserve coach McMahon talking about how they deliberately play Pacheco in midfield to "develop" his overall game, and are going to do the same with Suso. If both spent time just practicing to be better strikers we would have world beaters, not just potential stars who never make it.

roadender said...

the bit about the benitez effect that I agree with is, was the never ending series of players that Rafa tried to convert into playing in a different position. Some worked,  Kuyt - striker to winger/midfielder, Carra full back to centre back and others didn't, Babel - striker to winger, Lucas - attacking midfielder to defensive midfielder. However both Kuyt and Babel were poor as strikers but Rafa persevered with both as he must have seen their potential to improve the team. The fact is that Babal is a reluctant winger and has continually stated his preference for playing up front, whereas Kuyt took his new role with such gusto that he established himself as first choice in that role with the Dutch national side.
However, the benitez effect is still prevelant at the club and is much deeper rooted, especially when you hear reserve coach McMahon talking about how they deliberately play Pacheco in midfield to "develop" his overall game, and are going to do the same with Suso. If both spent time just practicing to be better strikers we would have world beaters, not just potential stars who never make it.

roadender said...

the bit about the benitez effect that I agree with is, was the never ending series of players that Rafa tried to convert into playing in a different position. Some worked,  Kuyt - striker to winger/midfielder, Carra full back to centre back and others didn't, Babel - striker to winger, Lucas - attacking midfielder to defensive midfielder. However both Kuyt and Babel were poor as strikers but Rafa persevered with both as he must have seen their potential to improve the team. The fact is that Babal is a reluctant winger and has continually stated his preference for playing up front, whereas Kuyt took his new role with such gusto that he established himself as first choice in that role with the Dutch national side.
However, the benitez effect is still prevelant at the club and is much deeper rooted, especially when you hear reserve coach McMahon talking about how they deliberately play Pacheco in midfield to "develop" his overall game, and are going to do the same with Suso. If both spent time just practicing to be better strikers we would have world beaters, not just potential stars who never make it.

roadender said...

sorry for the stutter

roadender said...

sorry for the stutter

roadender said...

sorry for the stutter

WTF? said...

The problem with Babel, I believe, is his deep religious faith. It seems to me like he decided he was good enough when he turned up and has not taken on board any of the scientific advice offered to him. He probably thinks that God will look after him once the devil is out the way. He has his faith in his paradigm and it ain't going to change no matter what the evidence, no matter how many false messiahs there are.

And that is also Jaimie's problem. IMHO.

Brad Joy-Clavis said...

Completely agree.  Whether it was Babel, Rafa or (more likely) a combination of both, he hasn't improved in any fashion since joining Liverpool and I don't see how he's really going to get much of a chance in the future.  The best thing for him and the club would be a parting of the ways where Babel can go to a team that will give him regular first team football and the chance to flourish.

Putnici said...

I'm dreadfully bored with all this Babel nonsense. Isn't it about time we simply forget about this non-starter and left him alone to do as he pleases. If there is anybody who really is the epitome of yesterday's man it is Babel. Give iy a rest and give him away!

Voland said...

Jamie,

It seems to me that most (if not all) the players who failed to make it under Benitez have so far not made it elsewhere either. Players rated by Benitez, on the other hand, have typically gone to prove that Rafa was right to believe in them (Lucas, Arbeloa, Kyut, Alonso, Mascherano, Aquilani, etc.)

I fear that Babel is another who is proving Benitez right, with Babel failing to convince Roy of his value as a first team starter.

BabelShit said...

Quite simply Babel is shit, evidence of this is if the player was actually good enough he would be a regular first team player. Under 2 very different managers he does not play, therefore it would be safe to suggest either there is a problem with the person or the fact he is shit.

wirral redman said...

please post comments and quotes regarding the alienating of Crouch etc as per your article its all just made up. All of those players fell out or left for footballing reasons (crouch wanted 1st guarentee ahead of torres) you pick and choose what we should o shouldnt believe in the media.

wirral redman said...

babel is typical of a young player who hasnt and never will fullfill the early promise he is at best championship level.

wirral redman said...

this article is baseless. Littered with inaccuracies picked up from the media

wirral redman said...

because he isnt good enough simple as that

Yewo said...

One of the most frustrating players we've had in a long time. Seems to have all the attributes so each time he's in the team you can't help thinking "this time..." but he often dissapoints.

Anyone else wish he's be a little more direct down that left hand side? You see him up against full backs like Hibbert or Wes Brown and wishing he'd just get it out his feet and leave them for dead with his pace (well I do anyway!...).

Could argue he hasn't had a fair crack I suppose, I'd rather see him on the teamsheet than Cole or Jovanovic any day but I fear his "performance" against Northampton may live long in the memory as far as the manager is concerned. Fair play to him for putting the effort in though when it would be easier to sulk and get a move away.

Can't really lay the blame squarely at Benitez for his lack of progression but I wouldn't argue that he probably wasn't his "type" of player. For every Babel there was a Torres who enjoyed his management I suppose...

John 71 said...

Fancy Babel Jamie?
Whats up with you and Benitez anyway, did he not sign an autograph for you?
Just up yer own arse with this site. Craving attention as always !

Redcanuck said...

He didn't make the Dutch World Cup squad (yes he made the 100 man preliminary squad but not the World Cup squad announced on May 27, 2010).  So basically 3 managers felt he wasn't good enough.  In addition, wasn't he injured in 2008, and since then his ability to deliver an accurate pass has faltered.  This plus his poor first touch see <span><span>www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=112988815395085  for both fan opinion and facts on this topic make it conclusive that he will not be up to snuff.</span></span>
<span><span></span></span>
<span><span></span></span>

twattfaddler said...

lack any type of thought?  what thought is required, do you not have eyes or ears ?

how can one prove an opinion of babel being rubbish?  go on tell me?

what you need to Sumon is to accept a debate is a two way deal.

For example, Jaimie's second paragraph in above article  runs thus -

'With his questionable man-management skills, Rafa Benitez misused and/or alienated a whole host of players during his reign including Peter Crouch, Stephane Henchoz, Sami Hyypia, John Arne Riise, Stephen Warnock, Robbie Keane, Yossi Benayoun, Ryan Babel, Xabi Alonso, Albert Riera and Alberto Aquilani.' <span>

where is his proof?</span>
by his rules he shouldnt be allowed to say the above, as there is no proof supplied, its subjecture.
and before you accuse me of lacking though in my comments, perhaps thats now something that is readily transferrable to your idiotic assessment of mine

twattfaddler said...

well said

Sumon seems to have taken em hook line and sinker

twattfaddler said...

Sumon your comments lack any kind of logical thought

you are the kind of person who should not bother watching the football and just get a weekly stats sheet to keep you updated.

stats are irrelevant if you have teh good sense to use your eyes and assess a players overall performance and contribution to a team.

bar a few good games it has been negligible.

Perhaps you and Jaimie can insure Roy gets a copy of these stats, because he doesnt seem very keen on babel does he?

twattfaddler said...

well said.

but can you prove it?

Only Jaimie's subjecture is permitted

twattfaddler said...

great comment.  well observed.

Mike said...

Interesting that JK has chosen not to answer the comments about Agger.

Mike said...

Dude, let it go man.  You are so hung up about Rafa.  I'm fed up of whining players crying about this and that.  Come on be a bloody man and work hard, earn your money instead of wallowing.  The manager obviously wanted you to do certain things - you didn't do them, consequently you did not hold down a place.

With the pro-Roy Hodgson cult press, I thought Roy would have fixed this considering what a great man manager he is.  However, there have been press reports that he upset Johnson, Agger, Pacheco and Torres to varying degrees.

I think the previous poster has a point about his religion.  Maybe his views conflict with the advice he has been given up to now - who knows?  I think psychologically, he doesn't seem to be able to improve his game, so who knows what the problem is.

We need a manager who can install a winning belief in him, which unfortunately, is not Roy 'mid-table' Hodgson.  There is absolutely no point in Roy playing Babel in his 9-0-1 formation.  Get in Didier Deschamps or Louis van Gaal.  and quick.

Mike said...

It's your job to provide examples. You are the self appointed article writer in Bristol.

ash123 said...

agger has been injured at least twice this season the second being a very bad calf injury and is not back until christmas time. which is why he has not been picked to play a match for a while now

I.A. said...

Jaime I'm not sure where you get the patience to deal with such inane comments.
Al those who want to slate Babel need to do so based on his first season to make a relevant argument. The whole point of the article is to say that Benitez destroyed Babel's potential and confidence. Look at his first season. Young and inexpereinced is a given, but he didn't look anything as lost and discouraged as he does now. Rather he looked damn impressive, I remember some emphatic finishing and good combination play with Gerard. Benitez put him in a physcological slump which is extremely difficult to get out of. He'll never get out of it in a team that has as much pressure as Liverpool does even when their playing well, let alone on a barely functional team. Ridiculous how so many people choose to ignore circumstance, you  all must beleive that it is a coincidence that most street criminals are from the lower classes of society and most corporate criminals from the upper class - no relationship there of course.
I beleive Babel is done. He's even lost his pace judging by the last couple of outings, and he had a chance to leave liverpool in the summer for Tottenham but didn't want to. Shows he's completely lost self-confidence and motivation. After such an experience at Liverpool, any serious player would want a change regardless of a new manager.

Mal said...

For those who have been around a while, Babel reminds me of David Fairclough. He could be very skilful and devastating as a sub, but put him on for a full game and he was poor. He was a 'head down' player who never knew what his teammates were doing. The result was his final ball was dire. Benitez used to refer to 'game intelligence' (by the way I'm not a Benitez advocate), but Babel has very little. He can be good, yes, but so often he runs into blind alleys or passes to no-one, or the opposition. So the good bits are too rare. yes, he can pull off a spectacular 'bit' but it's much too rare, and most of the time. he's a passenger. Even worse, he's a liabiliy.

Gab said...

With some of the comments on here, you'd think that Liverpool were not faltering last season and even worse this season. My main gripe with Hodgson is that he has not been prepared to shake things up and has simply kept the status quo and 'in crowd' that Benitez created. This is good for some players but not for others. Unless I have been watching a different set of matches for the last couple of seasons, Babel has shown more than enough signs of quality with some of the goals he has scored, and chances that he has created for Torres, West Ham last season being one example. You would think that Liverpool were not hanging on to 7th at the end of last season, or 19th earlier this season. Clearly, the alternatives to Babel, with their good attitudes, were showing their quality for all to see. How could someone who scores some of the goals that he has scored for the team, Lyon, Chelsea, coming on and turning the situatio around against Arsenal in the champions league, not be worth a run in the side when the team are languishing in mid table? Who else, apart from Torres or Gerrard, has scored the type of goals that this guy has scored for the team? Flair players need a run of games to find their form, not bits and pieces. I'm sure we will hear it all too often once Joe Cole, magically already one of the 'in crowd', comes back into the side. We'll be hearing excuses for him well into next year. The guy scored in a Europa League game and was subbed at half time, 2 minutes after he scored, what's that about? And we are seeing the Benitez effect at Inter already. Without Et'oo, the guy would be out of a job already. Are those players not good enough also? Do they all have bad attitudes?

John 71 said...

Jamie, Jamie, Jamie, What happenned to free speach?

Gab said...

Yes, he did make the World Cup squad, where did you get the idea that he didn't? And not making the Dutch team, which reached the final, is not surprising if you are restricted to one game in every five to prove yourself. If Babel ends up at Tottenham I can see him coming back to haunt us.

Declan said...

Did you run off to uni and get a psychology degree JK??

"How can three years of sytematic demotivation and lack of faith be all in the past in a matter of months?!  It has a psychological impact"

Jaimie Kanwar said...

The proof is on the site in various articles. Look around; I've provided evidence fir every one if those players.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Absolute nonsense Everything I write is my own view, and always has been. Provide examples of how the article is "littered with inaccuracies picked up from the media". Why do you even bother leaving such pointless comments? Anyone can just turn up and make baseless assertions; dint just satly it, prove it.

wirral redman said...

absolute rubbish. the players you have named left the club for totally different reasons than ou are suggesting

sumon said...

<span><span><span>twattfaddler</span><img></img></span></span>

You are entitled to your opinion, however lets examine exactly what I said. Lets go back to your original comments. The question was raised abt why you thought Ryan Babel had an attitude problem with examples. your response was

uh twitter anyone uh obvious lack of commitment on the pitch uh no footballing brain ...uh rubbish player..uh not picked by your mate hodgson very often  I still have to say  IMO your response has not really answered the question that was asked. You talk about twitter, however I don't see he has demonstrated his bad attuitude on that site.In refernce to your line..how can one prove an opinion of babel being rubbish?  go on tell me?
Fair point about how could one prove a player to be rubbish. Perhaps you could refer to certain playing traits or styles has that in your opinion demonstrated that. Or perhaps mention games when you feel his performance was particularly poor.
The second part of post stated And why shouldn't Jaimie ask for proof..isnt that the whole point of a debate....why is that in any way embarrasing? Still can't find anything wrong with that statement.

You then state: what you need to Sumon is to accept a debate is a two way deal.I totally agree with you. You quote a part from Jaimies article re: other players. I would say go for it....why not ask him to support his statements, ask him for proof.You are right, Roy does't seem to be keen on Babel. I sure he will go in Januaryprobably to birmingham or spurs.

Comebackking said...

Benitez definitely mismanaged Ryan Babel hardly giving him chances for 1.5 years and not transmitting confidence to the player's mind. What Jamie as usual fails to notice, Ryan Babel also hailed Benitez as a "great coach" according to Wesley Sneijder words published in Italian press. Benitez isn't a master of man management craft, but neither Gerard Houllier was. He had fallouts with Westerveld, Babbel, McManaman and most notably Fowler. And some of the guys Jamie supposed quarelled with Benitez cleared the air admitting they had no problem with him, like Aquilani or Cisse.When I read this site I sometimes think we must have been a concentration camp for last six years. It might contain a grain of truth. The problem with Jamie Kanwar, arguably the most pathetic and driven by his own agenda Liverpool blogger around Internet, is he can never see both sides of the conflict. Benitez didn't get the most of Babel, mismanaged Benayoun and Alonso (although their departures should be put down to the big clubs setting their sight at them), didn't put enough faith in Crouch at the end. But on the other hand Benitez persisted with Pete the laughing stock of the league for 24 hours without scoring, was quite often hailed by Mascherano, Reina (that's why you had a dig at him), Kuyt, Garcia or Torres. Mascherano and Torres called him the "manager who made me". Just over the course of last year we sold Benayoun and Arbeloa to TOP 4 clubs in the world, bought from unfashionable ones, as cheap signings, with no big clubs in for them at the time except for us (just like with Konchesky and Poulsen recently:) ) . Which of the players signed by Houllier made such a leap? From poor clubs sold to world's best. Only Riise. Mascherano and Alonso, too. Torres and Reina could follow. Very few arrivals improved that greatly unde Houllier to be good enough for such big clubs like Barcelona, Real or Chelsea. So as average man manager as Benitez is, he improved some players turning them into world-class performers, which Houllier has never done. Get over it.

Some questions at the end if you bother to answer:

1. You pointed out Johnson doesn't offer very much going forward to justify his price tag and should be sold. Patrice Evra got less assists last season playing every single game scoring no goals. Do you think Evra is poor going forward,  worse than Johnson BTW? And is Insua, getting 4-6 assists depending on the stats table, better than Cole and Evra, as he was more prolific in terms of assists?

You ignored those stats sent by me and one other poster, as usual when your hypocrisy, your favourite word, is heavily exposed.

2. How ridiculous, hilarious and jaw-dropping has to be Roy interview to deserve a mention on your site? It's supposed to be critical and realistic. Off the top of my head I can quote around 30, including "formiddable opponents form Northampton", "win at Goodison a Uthopia", slating Riijkaard, lying about Dalglish and Benitez (according to Dalglish son, quite credible source), praising SAF at least 4 times, "famous victory in Turkey", saying 9/10 games at Goodison we would win with such a display", "liverpool can't afford to fire me, I'm one of the most respected coaches in Europe" and many many more Ged and Rafa would never say. 90% of the fans are aware of that and 90% want him out. Why is that? And please elaborate on Roy slating 3 reporters interviewing him on 3 different occassions. Blackburn fans think he's more big-headed than Allardyce, Inter and Udinese fans boo him, Serie A journos including Marcotti and Horncastle call Benitez a humble man comparing to Roy, 85% of Scandinavian fans, natural ROy supporters want him out - there must be a reason why only Sky Sports and Daily Mail think he's gent, musn't it?

Comebackking said...

Before I'm off, even though, unlike Jamie, I'll always get back to respond to anyone exposing my lack of knowledge, I'd like to show, for the second time in 5 days, how Jamie is spinning facts, twisting words and ignoring anything incoherent with his vision of Liverpool (Benitez actually). I wrote on this site, several articles ago, that Aquilani mentioned good rapport with Benitez, rubbished rumours regarding any bust-up and even said, which I disagree with, that Benitez is the right man for Inter. Jamie ignored of course, as stats proving he is massively incosistent in Johnson assessment. Here you have the proof. Be kind Jamie and don't delete my comment, as you frequently did before I changed my nick.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1318872/Alberto-Aquilani-turns-Liverpool-urges-loan-club-Juventus-reach-potential.html

Polo said...

Very good points...good luck getting JK to respond.

OSI said...

<span>Jaimie, </span>
<span> </span>
<span>you do yourself no credit with this one....You jump on a reader for judging this piece as "laughable" but talk about how the need for us to produce this, that, and the other in order to foster debate....</span>
<span> </span>
<span>The irrefutable FACTS of the matter are this:</span>
<span> </span>
<span>- there is no such thing as "The Benitez Effect" outside the realm of your imagination. There is no reference to this ANYWHERE on the internet beyond your site and posts on chatrooms referring back to your site. it hasn't been accepted or established as a term in the greater football intellectual culture of Liverpool (club or city), England, Europe, or the world....and i say that with certainty because there is no TANGIBLE PROOF of this being widely accepted as a part of global football lexicon, so your statement of it being a "very real issue" is a PATENT FALSIFICATION of the nature of current footballing debate, and merely an OPINION OF YOURS. honesty in reporting and journalistic integrity require you to clearly delineate your opinions from IRREFUTABLE FACT.</span>
<span> </span>
<span>- the idea that rafa banned extra training sessions is a PATENT FALSIFICATION by babel, and as a writer who prides himself on investigative research you should have reported this if the aim was to present all relevant facts on matters of debate. this assertion is an IRREFUTABLE FACT because it has been well documented that previous players under rafa have taken extra sessions, most recently as the second half of last season; the following link of an article from the Telegraph, and redistributed by the Official LFC website LFC.TV states just this: http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/media-watch/torres-puts-in-extra-training. in the spirit of "TRUTH, FACTS, & CRITICAL REALISM" you should have reported as much...</span>

OSI said...

<span>- it is a PATENT FALSIFICATION for you to state that rafa "misused" any player, simply because you have no aurthoity to make such a claim. you are not a licensed physician or sports physiologist, so cannot claim that the manner in which rafa employed certain players was inconsistent with the physical limits of the human body, or their overall health and well-being; you are not a licensed physhologist or psychiatrist, so cannot claim that the manner in which rafa employed certain players was inconsistent with the mental or emotional limits or their overall emotional or cognitive health and well-being, and even if you were you would need both access to the individuals for an extended period of time, as well as their consent to make such claims about their mental state or facility (which i'm assuming you do not have, please provide PROOF of both if i am wrong); and you are not a holder of any football coaching certifications or badges required by the requisite governing bodies of the sport to claim expertise in the tactical usage of certain players under rafa's employ. therefore, in the absence of PROOF substantiating your statement about the misuse of certain individuals, it is inconsistent with the generally accepted standards of journalistic ethics to make such a statement without prefacing the FACT that it is merely your OPINION of matters as formed from external observation.</span>
<span> </span>
<span>- it is a PATENT FALSIFICATION to state that ALL OF THE PLAYERS LISTED WERE ALIENATED BY RAFA, as there is no PROOF provided to substantiate the statement that each and every one of those players felt that way at the time of their departure. i understand that some have made quotes about their time under rafa, but i can honestly say that, despite concerted efforts to research the internet and various social media platforms, i have not seen A SINGLE STATEMENT OF ALIENATION BY RAFA - ATTRIBUTABLE AND VERIFIABLE IN ITS AUTHENTICITY -  from the following players: crouch, henchoz, hyypia, riise, aquilani. unless you can provide ATTRIBUTABLE AND VERIFIABLE PROOF that these players held this opinion, you should - in the interests of generally accepted standards of journalistic ethics and in the spirit of "TRUTH, FACTS, & CRITICAL REALISM" - remove them from the list of players who have been proven to feel that way.....</span>

OSI said...

<span>- it is disingenuous to state as fact the opinion you have of rafa's methods in regards to player development, and intentionally omit (i say intentionally because the foundation of your site is factual research and investigation, and in keeping with that foundation you should have been well aware of these points) the positive contributions rafa has made to many of the players he's managed: torres, who was a known talent but not deemed good enough for anyone to take a chance on until he became regarded as one of the top strikers in the world under rafa; gerrard, who has had the best statistical seasons of his career under rafa's (often criticized and maligned) use of him - i.e. as a right midfielder (which was at the time his best season, and as a second striker (which became his best season, supplanting the one where he played on the right of midfield); carragher, who became one of the most recognized and respected CBs in europe under rafa's guidance; pepe reina, who went from being unable to supplant valdes at barcelona, to a multiple consecutive golden glove winner in the EPL and arguably one of the top keepers in the world; kuyt, who you have said time and again is a limited, near-useless player, but who has managed to be an ever-present in the dutch national team and consistently one of the most effective wide players in the EPL while under rafa's guidance; mascherano, who went from being a west ham reserve team player to being regarded as one of the most effective defensive midfielders in the world and the captain of Argentina while under rafa's guidance; lucas leiva, who was seen as a top prospect coming out of brazil, and is now a fixture in the brazil senior team and growing in stature in the EPL, despite the constant criticism of rafa's support of him being misplaced; xabi alonso, who went from being a good player in a smaller team, to one of the most effective passing midfielders in europe, a fixture in both real madrid's star-studded team and the world cup and european championship winning Spanish national team. a thorough investigation, analysis and presentation of the facts about any supposed effect of rafa on players he has managed should include all types of impact, not merely the ones that support your perception of it.</span>
<span> </span>
<span> </span>
<span>If this article is really representative of something that is TANGIBLE AND IRREFUTABLE VIA FACTS, you should revisit it after doing more thorough investigation, because despite the claim of providing facts, there are mostly suppositions without factual support....which by your own standards should be cast out, as there is no clear PROOF to back it. </span>
<span> </span>
<span>if the proof exists, you should provide it. if it does not, you should preface this article as representative of your PERSONAL PERCEPTIONS AND OPINIONS, AND NOT WHOLLY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE TRUTH.</span>
<span> </span>
<span> </span>
<span> </span>
<span>~OSI</span>

Fredious said...

You just can't let it go, can you Jamie? Rafa-obsessed and the slightest opportunity to have another dig and you're away. You're obsessed to the point of needing help. Get a life. Since when has Babel been worthy of listening to? He should do his talking on the pitch instead of whining.

Mike Arms said...

The problem is I guess is that if a player with potential does good then the manager is a genius and if a player with potential turns out poor then the manager is condemned. The fact is some players don't fit in and don't perform at certain clubs for a whole host of reasons, who would have thought the genius of Shevchenko would fail so badly at Chelsea? The whole of European football is littered with players who failed to live up to their potential at a certain club, so I find it difficult to accept your point Jaimie that Babel's failings are mostly down to Rafa. At the end of the day if a player gives 100% on the pitch and does exactly what the manager tells them to do then they invariably stay in the team, Lucas & Kuyt are prime examples.<span><span>
</span></span>

Gary said...

The Benitez effect is absolutely not a real issue, It is something completely fabricated by you. I can give an adequate explanation for pretty much any of these players leaving which doesn't include a lack of motivation or mismanagement from Rafa, or the so called "Benitez effect",

Hyypia - 35 year old who couldn't really cut the pace of the Premier League on a weekly basis, wanted a longer contract, Only offered a one year contract so decided to leave.

Henchoz - Jamie Carragher was moved into central defence which proved to be very very effective. Neither Hyypia or Carragher are injury prone, both kept him out of the team he decides to go to Blackburn. What was the "Benitez effect"?

Warnock - A squad player behind Riise in the pecking order as left back. Still made 87 appearances for us in 3 seasons but didn't do enough to to make the position his own. Decided to leave to get regular football. 

Riise- regular left back under Rafa until 2007/08 when there was rotation with Aurelio. Decided to leave. To be fair his form had dipped in his last couple of seasons at Liverpool. Whether this was to do with the off field issues (bankruptcy proceedings) is up to debate, but Aurelio was made first choice left back. Riise leaves. He has never said anything bad about Rafa's management since.

Crouch - Liverpool bought Kuyt and Torres. Unfortunately that meant Crouch was no longer first choice striker. He decides to leave Liverpool for regular first team football despite being offered a new contract. To be fair Rafa should be commended for sticking with Crouch in his first season where it was 19 games without a goal. Surely the so called Benitez effect would mean that he'd be dropped. And as much as I like Crouch he will never ever get into a team ahead of Torres which is what happened in Crouch's last season.   

Benayoun - was brought as a squad player. Played 92 games in 3 season which is an average of over 30 games a season. Was up against the likes of Riera and Babel on the left hand side. Got better and better during the 3 years which meant that he got more first team appearances ahead of Babel and Riera. He's said things since he left about Rafa being the reason for leaving bt if that was reallt the case why sign a contract extension only a year earlier, saying "I am very happy that we have reached an agreement. Of course, to be at a club like this is a dream come true and I want to keep playing here." Rafa was manager in 2009. And then Rafa leaves Liverpool but Yossi still leaves. If Rafa was the only reason for leaving Liverpool then surely Rafa's departure would have been enough for him to stay. Rafa left in June and Yossi left in July. If it was about playing more regularly then why go to Chelsea where, before getting injured he barely made an appearance. I'm thinking, that as he 30 he was looking for more money.

Aquilani - bought injured so didn't play too much but as he got fitter started to make appearances. Wasn't played in every game when fit but so what? Its a squad game and he had only retured from long term injury so was perhaps protected somewhat. He was bought on a 5 year deal. The fact that he has been loaned out by Hodgson makes his transfer a complete failure but what has that got to with Rafa. Aquilani should still be here and playing regularly.

I can't even be bothered discussing Babel, Keanea and Alonso as those topics were flogged to death last year on this site and you know what I think about those players and the "Benitez Effect".

Its funny how you never attribute a player's success to Rafa but any problem or failure is caused by the the "Benitez effect". Ultimately you do [...]

comebackRafa said...

Babbel came as a player with potential and only potential.The guy because of his attitude and chip on his shoulder has not fulfilled this potential.Babbel is one holy disgrace as a human being as a professional and as somebody who has  stated he only plays for himself saying he will just get the ball run and shoot,he will not pass. Who the hell is he to say he only plays for himself when he is part of LFC.One day he was even complaining he wasnt allowed to wear his blue boots.If he hates it at LFC so much why didnt he move to Birmingham when he had the chance.Rafa was right not to play this bad apple.How do you think Shankly would have reacted ,bowed down to him and said "Yes Ryan your the boss Ill do as you say".Before he signed for LFC he was saying he didnt want to sign to sit on the bench,maybe Rafa misunderstood this as drive and determination to get in the first team,now it seems like Babbels comments struck of complete arrogance,ive just come from the under 21 championships and I am going to walk into the champions of europes first team.

The Guest said...

<p>I take it this Jamie's admision Babel does not belong on the scrap heap as his earlier sentiments about players Liverpool wasted money on seemed to imply. IF i am getting him correctly, he is implying Babel is good for Liverpool but was handled poorly and the trend has simply continued.
</p><p>In any case Liverpool seem to destroy more than nurture talent. Pacheco the most outstanding youngster in a European Championship Youth Tournament in the off season is rumoured to soon to be discarded for missing one opportunity while the under-performing manager first asked for 10 games and now 55 games to be judged on. Sammy Lee coming out and saying Pacheco needs to work harder seems to be paving the way for him to be dumped.
</p><p>Chris Mavinga another talented youngster spoke about foreign youth being marginalised and there can be no more proof than this. Shelvey, a recent signing,Jay Spearing and Eccleston are all getting chances but Pacheco who has been the star of the reserves in recent times is apparently not good enough. Lets watch Suso get turfed out in 2 seasons for being too skilfull.
</p>

Gary said...

Well said OSI. Excellent posts.

Tony said...

I usually pop by here to have a look at some of the garbage spouted on here by several posters just for a laugh and most of the time i disagree with the author,hoever I never tend to comment\post because by the time i get on here most points have been argued to death and there is usually no point in adding my sixpence worth.Some of the arguments on here about Babel are totally an utterly baseless and unjustified.
Babel is held to a ridiculous standard where any good is ignored with all focus going onto any failings that he may have in a game.

Even though he is one of the few players capable of opening up a game for us from open play, he is the only one that gets castigated for trying to beat a man, while the rest of the drones that play it safe (and still make mistakes with misplaced passes, poor ball control, failed dribbles, wrong decisions etc) all get a relative free pass. Torres is a proven world class striker but he messes up on the ball just as often as Babel does, without the repercussions. Kuyt is a goal-poacher who offers nothing going forwards if he doesn’t score one of his rebounds, but he is constantly complimented for his defensive efforts with his attacking contributions overlooked. He’s an attacking player at a supposed top club ffs!!

Just like Utd with Ronaldo, Arsenal with Henry, Chelsea with Malouda, Spurs with Lennon etc – none of which set the world alight immediately, but all of which were given plenty of time on the pitch to come good – we should be sticking with Babel and encouraging him to keep on playing his game, whether he has some bad games or not, until he does deliver on a regular basis on the talent that he clearly has.

Either that or continue to stick with the limited but ‘hard-working’ players that currently clutter our team, and play such uninspiring football dragging us to the dizzy heights of 9th.

theycallmemrburt said...

This article smacks of opportunism from a master opportunist, but the Truth is Rafas record of handling any type of flair player was abysmal.  He bought winger after winger and then settled for kuyt and benayoun with the latter being told during a training session to sling his hook...allegedly.  I think Benny said " He tried to break me like he broke xabi and Riera".  Rafa is like a little fat bottle of marmite 8-)

Tony said...

I usually pop by here to have a look at some of the garbage spouted on here by several posters just for a laugh and most of the time I disagree with the author,however I never tend to comment\post because by the time I get on here most points have been argued to death and there is usually no point in adding my sixpence worth.Some of the arguments on here about Babel are totally and utterly baseless and unjustified.  
Babel is held to a ridiculous standard where any good is ignored with all focus going onto any failings that he may have in a game.  
 
Even though he is one of the few players capable of opening up a game for us from open play, he is the only one that gets castigated for trying to beat a man, while the rest of the drones that play it safe (and still make mistakes with misplaced passes, poor ball control, failed dribbles, wrong decisions etc) all get a relative free pass. Torres is a proven world class striker but he messes up on the ball just as often as Babel does, without the repercussions. Kuyt is a goal-poacher who offers nothing going forwards if he doesn’t score one of his rebounds, but he is constantly complimented for his defensive efforts with his attacking contributions overlooked. He’s an attacking player at a supposed top club ffs!!  
 
Just like Utd with Ronaldo, Arsenal with Henry, Chelsea with Malouda, Spurs with Lennon etc – none of which set the world alight immediately, but all of which were given plenty of time on the pitch to come good – we should be sticking with Babel and encouraging him to keep on playing his game, whether he has some bad games or not, until he does deliver on a regular basis on the talent that he clearly has.  
 
Either that or continue to stick with the limited but ‘hard-working’ players that currently clutter our team, and play such uninspiring football dragging us to the dizzy heights of 9th.As for Babel's 'Attitude' many of you have conveniently forgotten to post Roy's public comments about the player praising Babel's "Attitude" and even Rafa at the start of 08\09 season publically praised the lad's hard work and development during training sessions only to not use him for large chunks of that campaign.It's strange Roy tells Babel to prove himself before Christmas or he's off and then doesn't play him,whereas mundane no thrills drones like Kuyt,Lucas,Maxi and Janovic get chance week in week out to show the world their limitations.None of them are good enough for the Premiership,none yet they are playing for us.Then many on here sit their scratching their heads wondering why we are struggling.Baffling.<span></span>

theycallmemrburt said...

Quality. 

Tony said...

I usually pop by here to have a look at some of the garbage spouted on here by several posters (See the pathetic effort spewed up by <span>comebackRafa</span><img></img>above as a prime example) just for a laugh and most of the time I disagree with the author,however I never tend to comment\post because by the time I get on here most points have been argued to death and there is usually no point in adding my sixpence worth.Some of the arguments on here about Babel are totally and utterly baseless and unjustified.(Again see the afore mentioned vomit by comebackRafa who probably get's his info.from his mate's cabbies best friend's auntie) Really pathetic.
Babel is held to a ridiculous standard where any good is ignored with all focus going onto any failings that he may have in a game.    
   
Even though he is one of the few players capable of opening up a game for us from open play, he is the only one that gets castigated for trying to beat a man, while the rest of the drones that play it safe (and still make mistakes with misplaced passes, poor ball control, failed dribbles, wrong decisions etc) all get a relative free pass. Torres is a proven world class striker but he messes up on the ball just as often as Babel does, without the repercussions. Kuyt is a goal-poacher who offers nothing going forwards if he doesn’t score one of his rebounds, but he is constantly complimented for his defensive efforts with his attacking contributions overlooked. He’s an attacking player at a supposed top club ffs!!    
   
Just like Utd with Ronaldo, Arsenal with Henry, Chelsea with Malouda, Spurs with Lennon etc – none of which set the world alight immediately, but all of which were given plenty of time on the pitch to come good – we should be sticking with Babel and encouraging him to keep on playing his game, whether he has some bad games or not, until he does deliver on a regular basis on the talent that he clearly has.    
   
Either that or continue to stick with the limited but ‘hard-working’ players that currently clutter our team, and play such uninspiring football dragging us to the dizzy heights of 9th.As for Babel's 'Attitude' many of you have conveniently forgotten to post Roy's public comments about the player praising Babel's "Attitude" and even Rafa at the start of 08\09 season publically praised the lad's hard work and development during training sessions only to not use him for large chunks of that campaign.It's strange Roy tells Babel to prove himself before Christmas or he's off and then doesn't play him,whereas mundane no thrills drones like Kuyt,Lucas,Maxi and Janovic get chance week in week out to show the world their limitations.None of them are good enough for the Premiership,none yet they are playing for us.Then many on here sit their scratching their heads wondering why we are struggling.Baffling<span></span>

Tony said...

I usually pop by here to have a look at some of the garbage spouted on here by several posters (See the pathetic effort spewed up by <span>comebackRafa</span> above as a prime example) just for a laugh and most of the time I disagree with the author,however I never tend to comment\post because by the time I get on here most points have been argued to death and there is usually no point in adding my sixpence worth.Some of the arguments on here about Babel are totally and utterly baseless and unjustified.(Again see the afore mentioned vomit by comebackRafa who probably get's his info.from his mate's cabbies best friend's auntie) Really pathetic.  
Babel is held to a ridiculous standard where any good is ignored with all focus going onto any failings that he may have in a game.      
     
Even though he is one of the few players capable of opening up a game for us from open play, he is the only one that gets castigated for trying to beat a man, while the rest of the drones that play it safe (and still make mistakes with misplaced passes, poor ball control, failed dribbles, wrong decisions etc) all get a relative free pass. Torres is a proven world class striker but he messes up on the ball just as often as Babel does, without the repercussions. Kuyt is a goal-poacher who offers nothing going forwards if he doesn’t score one of his rebounds, but he is constantly complimented for his defensive efforts with his attacking contributions overlooked. He’s an attacking player at a supposed top club ffs!!      
     
Just like Utd with Ronaldo, Arsenal with Henry, Chelsea with Malouda, Spurs with Lennon etc – none of which set the world alight immediately, but all of which were given plenty of time on the pitch to come good – we should be sticking with Babel and encouraging him to keep on playing his game, whether he has some bad games or not, until he does deliver on a regular basis on the talent that he clearly has.      
     
Either that or continue to stick with the limited but ‘hard-working’ players that currently clutter our team, and play such uninspiring football dragging us to the dizzy heights of 9th.As for Babel's 'Attitude' many of you have conveniently forgotten to post Roy's public comments about the player praising Babel's "Attitude" and even Rafa at the start of 08\09 season publically praised the lad's hard work and development during training sessions only to not use him for large chunks of that campaign.It's strange Roy tells Babel to prove himself before Christmas or he's off and then doesn't play him,whereas mundane no thrills drones like Kuyt,Lucas,Maxi and Janovic get chance week in week out to show the world their limitations.None of them are good enough for the Premiership,none yet they are playing for us.Then many on here sit their scratching their heads wondering why we are struggling.Baffling<span>
</span>

theycallmemrburt said...

Quality stuff mate

Gab said...

spot on, with some of the comments on here you would think the team was beating allcomers for the last two seasons. Ronaldo, Messi, Henry would all have failed at Liverpool, with large sections of the supporters calling for Kuyt to play before them. A team that has been losing and failing to create for the best part of two years and the only player who offers something different and people want to ditch the guy without giving him a run of games. Hodgson has to take a lot of the blame for this, he's never given the guy the chance to prove himself that he promised. A player like this needs 5 or 6 games on the bounce to find his form, and the players who have played instead have not actually covered themselves with glory, so I don't see what the risk would have been in playing him.

wilkie0408 said...

Yes -- because quotes are never misconstrued.... Every manager does this Jaimie... every manager has favorites... get over it. 

Nemesis said...

Kanwar, why do you think so many people argue with you on your blog? Surely, the problem isn't with everyone else???

Guest said...

I disagree.
He was fit all the way through until mid-October when he got injured playing for Denmark.
By then, Hodgson had already cast him into the shadows behind Carra, Skrtel & Kyrgiakos even though he obviously offers something different to those three as a ball-playing central defender.

Per said...

Benitez was awfull at dealing with people. Why all the Liverpool fans are defending Rafa are beyong me. Cause Xabi alonso did not leave because he didint like Liverpool he did it because Benitez was there.

Jay Wright said...

RedCanuck - despite being a benchplayer for the previous two years, Babel was a member of the World Cup squad and was still ahead of both Affelay and Elia in the pecking order (two players of the same age that everybody wanted to replace Babel at Anfield).  He picked up an injury just before the tournament and was taken as a risk so was unavailable for the first two games, but after Elia had an impressive first cameo and with the fact that Robben was also returning from injury, Babel had no chance to play.

Even now with him being relegated to a reserve player under Hodgson he still somehow managed to be called up for the last Dutch squad, which I would argue says a lot about how highly rated he must have been before Liverpool destroyed him!

It's a shame that we are so patient in waiting for the likes of Maxi and Kuyt to "hit form" whereas an genuine young talent is dumped on the scrap heap, with us pining over players with the exact same characteristics to replace him

billywhizz100 said...

Amazing information regarding the training (or lack of). Is interesting also to see that Rafa is making a bit of a mess of Inter. Maybe we should start to look at Rafa's reign with a bit more of a critical eye. Maybe not so critical as Jamie, though!

billywhizz100 said...

A little bit naive to think that Hodgson hasn't had some kind of demotivational effect on certain players - Johnson, for example. For a manager to publicly "criticise" a player can not be a motivational, surely? And Johnson's pithy responses in the press seem to indicate as much.

Siblfc said...

Babel started the first league game of season away at spurs in 09/10 season. I travelled 400 miles that day to see the worst performance I have ever seen by an individual in a red shirt. Babel was so so lazy, off the pace, and lacking in touch it was ridiculous, yet this was after an intensive pre-season! Rafa rightly subbed him at half time. Perhaps if he was as committed when given opportunities on the pitch, as he is to tweeting and moaning, he might have delivered more of his undoubted potential.

Dixie222 said...

Awsome response!!!

daboy said...

I cannot understand why he is still at Liverpool he should have been sold 2 seasons back when they still had a chance of getting their money back.
There has been 2 different managers at Liverpool who do not want to use him and it appears to me Babels workrate is not what it should be,  Ngog is obviously the better player as Roy and Rafa see Ngog as the preferred option.
Babel has loads of talent but unfortunately determination and attitude often determines the men from the boys.
The point i make seriously is Ngog is the better player and you cannot possibly blame Rafa for what is happening now to Babel that is pure wrong!

markjuliewalters said...

In the latest episode of 'Jaimie paints himself into another corner with his own argument' we will again see Jaimie allow himself to get away with sweeping comments that others aren't.

By the way Jaimie, Any chance of a similar article where 'Benitez effect' is replaced by 'Hodgson Effect' and 'Babel' is replaced by 'Pacheco'

comebackRafa said...

To that Tony guy,I got my information off Babbels comments on twitter his own comments,so my information isnt baseless.Maybe now you will realise what sort of attitude this guy has.So now you know the pathetic effort I spewed is correct maybe you will realise what sort of man he is,and maybe you will also be man enough to admit you are wrong in attacking my post as baseless.That is of course  unless you are one of these people who can never even see a priest on a mountain of sugar.

LOL said...

OMG another anti benitz article....

babel has had chances and never performed, its a huge shame and who knows what goes on behind closed doors, but the fact is, on the pitch he never constitently did it, and we were never in the situation of winning easily to get a good run and help him out.

that is down to him alot more then rafa...

also....right now, is right now....and right now we have a manager alienating danny agger, a very good skilful defender and pacheco an outstanding prospect...

u seem the focus on our youth and the importance ....why arnt u asking the question

ROY WAT ARE U DOING???

then going over the past yet again

sumon said...

SibLfc I remember that game, fair play you were right..he was very disappointing. 

Perhaps part of the problem could be nerves...at that point he was a young inexperinced player knowing he has only 45 mins to make an impact. he also knows if he blows it,its going to be a long time before he gets another game..thats a lot of pressure for a 22 year old.

Undoubtedly, there are other players who would have dealt with that situation more positively. However footballers mature in different ways...perhaps Babel just need to be nurtured a bit more. I think Rafa and Roy needed/need to show more faith in him. 

WTF? said...

:-D 8-) :-P ;)

sumon said...

SibLfc I remember that game, fair play you were right..he was very disappointing.   
 
Perhaps part of the problem could be nerves...at that point he was a young inexperinced player knowing he has only 45 mins to make an impact. he also knows if he blows it,its going to be a long time before he gets another game..thats a lot of pressure for a 22 year old.  
 
Undoubtedly, there are other players who would have dealt with that situation more positively. However footballers mature in different ways...perhaps Babel just need to be nurtured a bit more. I think Rafa and Roy needed/need to show more faith in him.
With regards the twittering, I think that Babel has been unfairly berated. I follow his tweets, and they are always in his own free time when he is not training, and are genreally abt not football matters. In fact I can only recall a couple of instances when he aired grievences..the Stoke game..when he was fined and he apologised, and the information tweeted yesterday which was nothing to do abt the current LFC management team. Players routinely say far worse about previous managers, yet no one worrys about it.I'm glad that you acknowledge his undoubted potential. The reality is he will surely move in Jan...hope he doesnt haunt us by putting in a couple of goals when we next play spurs/bham or wherever he ends up at!

WTF? said...

Lets not forget, when it looked as if Babel would be going last January, Rafa decided to keep him because he could see the lad had some motivation to get in the world cup squad and he was rewarded with some good performances, also due to the fact that Rafa doesn't like to sell players he paid a fortune for for peanuts like Houllier did just to get them out. I'm sure if Rafa had stayed he'd have negotiated a decent move for him. Plus Rafa knew how to get the best out of him - as a substitute in the CL -Good man management - Good financial management.

What does Woy do? Tells the lad he is going to get his big chance, then tries to swap him for Carlton Cole at the last minute, destroying his confidence and then not really giving him the chance he said he was going to, then criticising him publicy, then not using wingers at all, then not even giving him a go in all those games when we were getting beat or not winning. He'll probably go soon for peanuts like Kacaniclic, Dalla Valle, Aquilani, Insua etc. And Woy will spend all the money on Carlton Cole and Simon Davies.

Tip: Don't turn against a Liverpool manager simply because you don't like him, and then back his successor no matter what without checking the full facts simply because your opinion is that the last manager was so bad that snoogy doogy could do a better job - that way you won't look so unprofessional when the inevitable happens

p.s. Amongst the vast majority of Liverpool fans it is perfectly acceptable to denigrate an Liverpool manager who is an outright failure and refuses to accept he is not wanted. But go on and surprise me by saying it isn't acceptable on this site - when at the same time you denigrate the legend of Rafa - after all this site is not for Liverpool fans is it. 

Wirral Redman said...

You prove where Peter Crouch etc as named above in your article have stated that they fell out with Benitez or where affected by the Benitez effect as you call it.
You continually rip Benitez to bits but the minute someone debates reasonably about Hodgson shortcommings you reject it and often delete the comments. Double Standards
Crouch wanted Guarenteed !st Team football
Henchoz was past it and couldnt get a game
Hyypia was offered a 2 year deal at the age of 36 to go to a different club
Warnock ....... I cant remember it was that long ago.
Keane wasnt even a Benitez signing he was signed by Parry
Benyoun, Riera wanted to play dispite lack of form and Benitez wouldnt pick them so they fell out with him
Alonso was treated badly in as much as the club tried to sign Barry to play in his position.

Woy Hodgson said...

suck it real good kanwar

Vas said...

Here is the issue with babel that nobody has mentioned... we have no idea what he is like in training.

For all we know he might just as bad during training sessions as he is on the pitch. We simply do not know.

For me everytime I have seen him play he has frustration the hell out of me.

For a professional footballer his first touch is simply awful and I don;t care where you play, how old you are, etc etc but if you cant control a ball then its game set and match for me.

In one of his last games in europe (must of been this season as it was on Channel 5) he went for a shot just outside the 18 yd area and it went off for a throwing on the other side of the pitch !!!!

When ever he is on the ball you just know that he will just waste it.

This has nothing to do with RB or RH, its simply that babel is a waste of space... end off

Guest said...

Jamie,

You're entitled to your opinion but I don't agree that Benitez alienated all of the players you have suggested in your article. In my opinion players fall in and out of form and given the number of games played no one can play every game its just impossible in your analysis you make the point that in Babel's second season that his games were cut by 60%. Well another way to look at this is that the summer before his second season was Euro 2008 and Babel unfortunately got injured damaging his ankle and was out for several weeks therefore one can argue that it wasn't that Benitez kept him out of the team it was that Benoyoun after rumour of him being sold that summer stepped up and had an amazing season scoring 8 goals (double the previous season). At the end of day I like Babel as a player but he has to take responsibility for his performance and every time he gets on the pitch for the most part it is disappointing. Yes of course players need time to gel and gain understanding but if there are players ahead of Babel like Riera and Benoyoun who are playing well then it is understandable that Benitez might go with them. 

But ok even if we accept that Babel didn't get a fair chance under Benitez he has had one under Hodgson and for whatever reason Hodgson has not liked what he has seen given the number of starts he has made. Hodgson called on Babel to prove himself worthy of playing as a striker which is Babel's favored position and against Northampton he had an unspectacular game. So why is it that both Benitez and Hodgson don't him?

Tony said...

To that comebackRafa guy firstly it's Babel not Babbel(The fact you can't even spell the lad's name right says more about you as a person than that (And I'll quote your baseless vomit here) "One holy disgrace as a human being" Really? Why because he raped someone? Snorted cocaine? Attacked a fan? Beat up his wife\Girlfriend?Oh wait he dared to air his frustrations(Like hundreds of footballers\sportsmen o)at  being starved of opportunities to develop as a player by a shit manager who is ultimately to blame for the team's current plight?So let's say your boss is treating you like shit,and you moan about it to him\her that by your logic makes you (Again I'll quote you here) "One holy disgrace as a human being" Right? Again you, like many others on here have stuck their blinkered heads up their collective rectums when looking at some of the facts in this debate(I.e Benitez and Hodgson both coming out publically praising Babel's efforts in training).Now before I go on I'll make my stance a little clearer I do not think Babel is the greatest player in the world,but he has the potential to be better than most of the garbage we have playing, sorry attempting to play for us if given at least a continuous stint in the side.
Now one of the original reasons Benitez gave for not using Babel was "He needs to improve his defensive game" What total and utter garbage,he had the lad scouted at Ajax where he played as a winger\striker so knew about his "Defensive frailties" before he signed him.He was one of the hottest talents in European football and I watched him play at Ajax and the DutchU21 side and believe me he deserved that accolade.Marco Van Basten (Remember him) now there's a man who knows his football (Not like the r'tard at the top of this page) was concerned about Babel joining us stating it would damage Babel's career because of Benitez's negative "Anti football" style.Gosh hey presto one of the most intelligent footballing minds was correct but hey what does he know because people like comebackRafa are footballing authorities that have gone over every shred of evidence to prove Van Basten and many other footballing minds that gave Babel hi chance wrong.

I'm hoping we do sell Babel because I know he'd do well at another club that actually attempts to play football and not the garbage Roy and Benitez have churned out collectively for the last 5\6 years .I'm hoping on his return to Anfield he scores a hat-trick and gives Roy the middle finger and shuts up some of the near sighted nay sayers on here. Oh to Siblfc,I was at that Tottenham game , both Torres and Gerrard were utter garbage too as was Lucas,Skrtel,Kuyt,Insua and Carrgher in fact they were far worse than Babel who was chasing hopeless long balls before being subbed.Guess who was made scape goat in his first starting role in the side since the 4 nil thrashing of Madrid back in march of that year where he played a blinder and promptly got dropped for the next game(Manutd away)Doh you got it.

Mike said...

Bravo!  Notice the lack of response from the self appointed leader of the Pro-Roy Hodgson cult.

Mike said...

Bravo OSI - more FACTUAL evidence that JK is losing it and writing sensationalist articles without researching first. tut tut.

Tony said...

To that comebackRafa guy firstly it's Babel not Babbel(The fact you can't even spell the lad's name right says more about you as a person than that (And I'll quote your baseless vomit here) "One holy disgrace as a human being" Really? Why because he raped someone? Snorted cocaine? Attacked a fan? Beat up his wife\Girlfriend?Oh wait he dared to air his frustrations(Like hundreds of footballers\sportsmen do)At  being starved of opportunities to develop as a player by a shit manager who is ultimately to blame for the team's current plight?So let's say your boss is treating you like shit,and you moan about it to him\her that by your logic makes you (Again I'll quote you here) "One holy disgrace as a human being" Right? Again you, like many others on here have stuck their blinkered heads up their collective rectums when looking at some of the facts in this debate(I.e Benitez and Hodgson both coming out publically praising Babel's efforts in training).Now before I go on I'll make my stance a little clearer I do not think Babel is the greatest player in the world,but he has the potential to be better than most of the garbage we have playing, sorry attempting to play for us if given at least a continuous stint in the side.  
Now one of the original reasons Benitez gave for not using Babel was "He needs to improve his defensive game" What total and utter garbage,he had the lad scouted at Ajax where he played as a winger\striker so knew about his "Defensive frailties" before he signed him.He was one of the hottest talents in European football and I watched him play at Ajax and the DutchU21 side and believe me he deserved that accolade.Marco Van Basten (Remember him) now there's a man who knows his football (Not like the r'tard at the top of this page) was concerned about Babel joining us stating it would damage Babel's career because of Benitez's negative "Anti football" style.Gosh hey presto one of the most intelligent footballing minds was correct but hey what does he know because people like comebackRafa are footballing authorities that have gone over every shred of evidence to prove Van Basten and many other footballing minds that gave Babel hi chance wrong.  
 
I'm hoping we do sell Babel because I know he'd do well at another club that actually attempts to play football and not the garbage Roy and Benitez have churned out collectively for the last 5\6 years .I'm hoping on his return to Anfield he scores a hat-trick and gives Roy the middle finger and shuts up some of the near sighted nay sayers on here. Oh to Siblfc,I was at that Tottenham game , both Torres and Gerrard were utter garbage too as was Lucas,Skrtel,Kuyt,Insua and Carrgher in fact they were far worse than Babel who was chasing hopeless long balls before being subbed.Guess who was made scape goat in his first starting role in the side since the 4 nil thrashing of Madrid back in march of that year where he played a blinder and promptly got dropped for the next game(Manutd away)Doh you got it.<span></span>

Simon said...

Good comments.

Simon said...

Evidence?

Tony said...

To that comebackRafa guy firstly it's Babel not Babbel(The fact you can't even spell the lad's name right says more about you as a person than that (And I'll quote your baseless vomit here) "One holy disgrace as a human being" Really? Why because he raped someone? Snorted cocaine? Attacked a fan? Beat up his wife\Girlfriend?Oh wait he dared to air his frustrations(Like hundreds of footballers\sportsmen do)at  being starved of opportunities to develop as a player by a shit manager who is ultimately to blame for the team's current plight?So let's say your boss is treating you like shit,and you moan about it to him\her that by your logic makes you (Again I'll quote you here) "One holy disgrace as a human being" Right? Again you, like many others on here have stuck their blinkered heads up their collective rectums when looking at some of the facts in this debate(I.e Benitez and Hodgson both coming out publically praising Babel's efforts in training).Now before I go on I'll make my stance a little clearer I do not think Babel is the greatest player in the world,but he has the potential to be better than most of the garbage we have playing, sorry attempting to play for us if given at least a continuous stint in the side.  
Now one of the original reasons Benitez gave for not using Babel was "He needs to improve his defensive game" What total and utter garbage,he had the lad scouted at Ajax where he played as a winger\striker so Rafa knew about his "Defensive frailties" before he signed him.He was one of the hottest talents in European football and I watched him play at Ajax and the DutchU21 side and believe me he deserved that accolade.Marco Van Basten (Remember him) now there's a man who knows his football (Not like the r'tard at the top of this page) was concerned about Babel joining us stating it would damage Babel's career because of Benitez's negative "Anti football" style.Gosh hey presto one of the most intelligent footballing minds was correct but hey what does he know because people like comebackRafa are footballing authorities that have gone over every shred of evidence to prove Van Basten and many other footballing minds that gave Babel his chance wrong.  
 
I'm hoping we do sell Babel because I know he'd do well at another club that actually attempts to play football and not the garbage Roy and Benitez have churned out collectively for the last 5\6 years .I'm hoping on his return to Anfield he scores a hat-trick and gives Roy the middle finger and shuts up some of the near sighted nay sayers on here. Oh to Siblfc,I was at that Tottenham game , both Torres and Gerrard were utter garbage too as was Lucas,Skrtel,Kuyt,Insua and Carrgher in fact they were far worse than Babel who was chasing hopeless long balls before being subbed.Guess who was made scape goat in his first starting role in the side since the 4 nil thrashing of Madrid back in march of that year where he played a blinder and promptly got dropped for the next game(Manutd away)Doh you got it.<span>


</span>

Simon said...

Liverpool fans like him because STATISTICALLY he has been the best manager since Dalglish, with the most wins.  Almost the same as Wenger and Fergie who had longer to create successive teams.  We even finished higher than Arsenal 3 out of 6 seasons, and while Rafa was here Arsenal won nothing.  Yet Wenger is still in his job?

Simon said...

If you want a critical eye of Rafa at Inter - check how many players are over 30 - yes, that's Mourinho's legacy.  Be at a club at the players peak, when the squad needs rebuilding - RUN.

Inter have had a massive injury list this season, plus Benitez is trying to get them to play more football than under Mourinho.  As an example check out the CL game against Barca stats from last season.  The injuries have exposed a lack of depth in the squad - again - something left for Rafa by Mourinho and not mentioned in the press.

Tony said...

No-one knows what Babel is like during training eh Vas? Like I said many people have their heads lodged up their rectums.What a lame argument when BOTH Rafa and Hodgson have praised the lads efforts in training and Babel himself has complained that he wasn't allowed to do extra training."Liverpool fans the most knowledgable fans in the game" No we are not.

Simon said...

The Benitez effect was observed in Valencia for several years and in Instanbul in 2005.

If you actually took the time to read the full article in context, you would realise that perhaps the undercurrent was that at the time he is referring to, Babel had a few injuries and was recovering.  The logical thing then is for him NOT to do extra training.

The paper that reported this (not the Daily Mail) also states that Babel did not want to criticise Benitez.

The trouble is, you won't see it like that.  Two sides to every story in the real world........

comebackRafa said...

However you spell his name it just about sums him up,because babble is alls he has ever done since hes been here.When he first arrived he said he doesnt want to spend all his career on the bench,then he said hes a striker not a winger but he will play wing for now.Then on his twitter he said he isnt allowed to wear his blue football boots because of rivalry.Then on twitter he gave the game away the night before, saying hadnt been selected for next days game.Then on twitter again he said from now on "I play for me and only me,when I get the ball I will run and shoot,i will not see anybody to pass to unless I know I will get the ball back off them,they dont see me so I wont see them.When you play for LFC you are part of team,he thinks he is bigger than LFC.He is from a certain band of player (Van Hooydonk,Hasslebaink,Anelka who want their own way or they become a disruptive influence.Rafa brought players with a winning mentality,players whos head doesnt drop at the slightest setback,players who when substituted come sprinting off the pitch encouraging their replacement.Kuyt never say die,Benayoun never say die always go until the end.Skrtle never say die,Mascherrano,Alonso,Torres.Babel was a young prospect when he came and nothing more.As for Benitez you are saying a manager who won 2 La Ligas,uefa cup 2 super cups,Fa cup CL winner and runner up and semifinalists and voted uefa european manager of the year on 2 seperate occassions isnt any good.Whatever babel is like in training he isnt a LFC player.

Gab said...

There's plenty of examples in history where the majority are totally wrong, so calling on numbers does not prove anything.

Gab said...

Wenger managed to keep Arsenal in the Champions League, building a stadium and spending less than Sunderland per season. He also won a league and cup double and managed a team that went unbeaten for an entire season. And, to top it all off, he did it with a side that was generally accepted to be the most attractive footballing team in the country, after years of Arsenal playing desperate negative football. If you are going to play with two defensive midfielders, you had better be winning. Wenger has earned all the patience that he has received and the next manager of Arsenal will have the best job in the country after what Wenger's left him. I'm not a Hodgson fan but can you seriously say that Benitez left the same legacy for his successor?

Gab said...

Funny, Rafa's supporters always say that winning the champions league is the be all and end all. Mourinho managed it with the same bunch of past it crocks, have they all declined so sharply in a few months, or can the current manager not motivate the players in the same way? And what manager takes a team that are champions of Europe and attempts to impose his own way of playing on the team? And egomaniac possibly?

Gab said...

I presume you were not watching the Blackpool game where the team were played off the park for the first 45 minutes. Didn't see anyone off the pace that day?

wirral redman said...

what a fantastic factual article well written

Gab said...

So, on this seasons performances, you want about 7 of the outfield players out?

Gab said...

Tony, spot on again.

The comment about him not passing is reasonable if no one passes the ball back. You say yourself that it is a team game, yet you ignore his initial comment that certain players, the in crowd, don't pass him the ball when he is in a good position. Benayoun, never say die? He was quoted many times saying that he agreed to join Chelsea BEFORE he knew Rafa was leaving! If the team has so many winners, how did they end up languishing in 19th place earlier this season? You can't blame Babel for that. Alonso left because Rafa alienated him. Torres is a great player, but never say die is not one of the first qualities that I would use to sum him up. Who cares what the guy says on twitter anyway? I care more about him scoring a blinding goal away to Lyon and then all your never say die types at the back making a stuff up of a regulation hoof into our box, allowing Lyon to equalise and, effectively, putting us out of the Champions League. Didn't see much never say die spirit in the team that day, seeing even less of it this season.

Gab said...

agreed, I know what I see on the pitch and the guy has pace, the ability to cross from the right wing, not the left, a great shot. That is more than the majority of players that we have playing out wide for most of the games. It makes me laugh that people don't seem to have cottoned on to the fact that the same type of players are failing at Liverpool. Players who have potential on the flanks and who like to play with a bit of pace. The pedestrian nature of our play, and lack of width, makes the job of these players very difficult. No wide player has done well at Anfield for some time. No full back has really excelled either. The team's play does suit wide players, and that is down to both the previous manager and the current manager.

Gab said...

I reckon that you can take Roy's appraisal of the players with a pinch of salt. He is quick to blame players after Northampton, but silent after Blackpool. He is quick to criticise safe targets like Babel, Johnson, even Pacheco, but only has praise for Poulsen, Konchesky, etc. He even bothered to point out, yesterday, how Gerrard was going into his rehabilitation with great determination, before accepting that Gerrard could not do much work for the next week or two. So, what is he saying, Gerrard is going into a period of doing nothing with great determination? Does Gerrard really need any more 'big ups' from the manager? Maybe if he spent his time handling some of his other players with the same sensitivity, then some of them would respond better. Rafa's 'in crowd' still exists at Anfield, and that is Roy's biggest failing. So the fact that he is making similar choices to Benitez is the problem, not confirmation that certain players are not good enough. N'gog is obviously the better player? If Liverpool were to put both on sale at the same price, I have no doubt that more teams would be lining up for Babel than N'gog.

Gab said...

Agree, Hodgson's treatment of Babel and that shameless attempt to sell him on the last day, for Carlton Cole, was bad for the club and bad for the player. I'm glad it did not come off because I wouldn't want Cole at Anfield. But it left us with one squad player short. Why he felt he needed to move on Insua for Konchesky, and bring in Poulsen and move on Aquilani, who knows. But all the time wasted on those deals cost us the chance to get another striker. Let's face it, he was only manager since July, and the whole world could see that another striker should have been the priority. Clueless in the extreme and, with Torres injured earlier in the season, or not fully fit, his poor planning cost the team badly.

comebackRafa said...

Alonso leaving LFC was purely financial on Alonsos part.There was a law in Spain named Beckhams law which promoted the import of top players from foreign clubs were anything they earned over £600,000 a year was only taxed at 24%,Due to the economic crash they brought a new tax rate of 43% in on new players only.This was  brought in just after Alonso signed so he was exempt but he knew it was going to be brought in.So why people keep perpetuating this myth that Rafa alianated Alonso is beyond me.If he alienated him why was he always in the team. 

joey said...

Do one with that Keane was signed by Parry rubbish. The entire world knows Keane was signed because Benitez TOLD Parry to sign him. End of.

steve said...

I pity any young player who plays under Rafa and Babel was written off by him shamefully. Benitez is now undermining the squad at Inter and revealing what a poor manager he actually is.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Great points, Gab.  The benitez excuses continue even though he's not even manager of Liverpool anymore.  A treble winning side a few months agi is on the rack and, of course, it's everyone else's fault but Saint Benitez's.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

People argue because they have different opinions.  isn;t that what is supposed to happen?  or we just all supposed to agre with each other and massage each others' egos?

steve said...

Yeh and the Benitez effect is currently being seen in Milan where the 5 time Serie A winners, Reigning European cup holders and treble winners are floundering under Rafa and looking like a pub team. He's already got the players falling out with him and he's got 60 percent of their fanbase wanting him out . He's only been there 4 months so it seems their fans are a lot smarter than some of ours. 

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Evidence:

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2010/07/11/2019735/chelsea-winger-yossi-benayoun-the-only-reason-i-left

<span>Everyone asks me why I left Liverpool," Benayoun told The News of the World.

"There is only one reason - Rafa Benitez. I agreed to join Chelsea before Roy Hodgson was appointed Liverpool's new manager.

"I want Liverpool fans to know the truth and for them to know I made up my mind to leave a long time ago because of Benitez.

"He never treated me with the respect I deserved. If I played well, I never felt he gave me credit. When I scored, I still expected to be out of the team the next game.

"And when the fans wanted me to play, Benitez told me he couldn't understand why."

"There are many examples of him treating me badly. On two occasions early last season, against Fulham and Lyon, the fans booed when I was subbed. They thought I was playing well but Benitez told me he was surprised the fans booed because I was not good enough.

"Then, when we played Birmingham [City] after I hadn't started a game for a month, he didn't tell me I was starting until two hours before the game.

"He tried to destroy my confidence. You can't treat a player like this and expect him to be happy. I don't want to speak on behalf of other players at Liverpool, but people know what happened to Albert Riera and Xabi Alonso.

"It was the same for me. Benitez tried to break me like he broke Riera.”

"On the day before the final game of last season at Hull [City], Benitez pulled me to one side after training and said, 'You will not be in the squad for this game. Thank you for your three years of service, now you can call your agent to do a deal with another club.'

"That's when Chelsea made an offer and the deal was done before Benitez left. I knew I had to get away from Benitez. A lot of people at Liverpool treated me well and asked me to stay, but I could not turn down such a massive club as Chelsea.

"I could not risk waiting to see if Benitez kept his job. The club said they understood why I was unhappy and promised they'd let me leave in the summer if an offer came while Benitez was manager."

"It is good for Liverpool that Benitez has gone, but it was too late for me," he concluded.

"I know everyone working there will be a lot happier and I believe Roy Hodgson is a good choice." </span>

An utterly staggering indiightment of Benitez, and backs up everything I have been arguing for the last 4 years.

Jaimie Kanwar said...

Evidence:  
 
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2010/07/11/2019735/chelsea-winger-yossi-benayoun-the-only-reason-i-left  
 
<span>Everyone asks me why I left Liverpool. There is only one reason - Rafa Benitez. I agreed to join Chelsea before Roy Hodgson was appointed Liverpool's new manager.  
 
"I want Liverpool fans to know the truth and for them to know I made up my mind to leave a long time ago because of Benitez.  
 
"He never treated me with the respect I deserved. If I played well, I never felt he gave me credit. When I scored, I still expected to be out of the team the next game.  
 
"And when the fans wanted me to play, Benitez told me he couldn't understand why."  
 
"There are many examples of him treating me badly. On two occasions early last season, against Fulham and Lyon, the fans booed when I was subbed. They thought I was playing well but Benitez told me he was surprised the fans booed because I was not good enough.  
 
"Then, when we played Birmingham [City] after I hadn't started a game for a month, he didn't tell me I was starting until two hours before the game.  
 
"He tried to destroy my confidence. You can't treat a player like this and expect him to be happy. I don't want to speak on behalf of other players at Liverpool, but people know what happened to Albert Riera and Xabi Alonso.  
 
"It was the same for me. Benitez tried to break me like he broke Riera.”  
 
"On the day before the final game of last season at Hull [City], Benitez pulled me to one side after training and said, 'You will not be in the squad for this game. Thank you for your three years of service, now you can call your agent to do a deal with another club.'  
 
"That's when Chelsea made an offer and the deal was done before Benitez left. I knew I had to get away from Benitez. A lot of people at Liverpool treated me well and asked me to stay, but I could not turn down such a massive club as Chelsea.  
 
"I could not risk waiting to see if Benitez kept his job. The club said they understood why I was unhappy and promised they'd let me leave in the summer if an offer came while Benitez was manager."  
 
"It is good for Liverpool that Benitez has gone, but it was too late for me," he concluded.  
 
"I know everyone working there will be a lot happier and I believe Roy Hodgson is a good choice." </span>  
 
An utterly staggering indiightment of Benitez, and backs up everything I have been arguing for the last 4 years.

oaky said...

I have been following Jamie for a while now and have released his agenda. Pick a topic which 90 percent of liverpool dont agree with and go with that to get hits and comments on his website. He touches on emotional liverpool fans who then react and say stupid stuff which gives more weight to his arguments. The time someone makes a decent comment he either deletes it or ignores it.

Well thanks to jamie I have purchased the domain www.liverpoolkop.co.uk. Which will be the site for true critical realism. Like I said I have followed jamie for some time now and my first article on my website will be titled Jamie Kanwars True Agenda in which I have gathered some facts which I will like share with everyone (the numbers and percentage game jamie likes so much).

oaky said...

I have been following Jamie for a while now and have realised his agenda. Pick a topic which 90 percent of liverpool fans dont agree with and go with that to get hits and comments on his website. He touches on emotional liverpool fans who then react and say stupid stuff which gives more weight to his arguments. The time someone makes a decent comment he either deletes it or ignores it.  
 
Well thanks to jamie I have purchased the domain <span>www.liverpoolkop.co.uk</span>. Which will be the site for true critical realism. Like I said I have followed jamie for some time now and my first article on my website will be titled Jamie Kanwars True Agenda in which I have gathered some facts which I will like to share with everyone (the numbers and percentage game jamie likes so much).Plus if you want to know abit more about my agenda check my comments on jamies recent artilcles you will see I am all about joining Liverpool fans together.

Tony said...

I see you managed to avoid my direct questions to you whilst answering questions that you think are significant to your misguided comments.
My God you set yourself up for these little traps don't you comebackRafa?"Players with a winning mentality"?Are we talking about the same winning mentality that saw us struggle to 7th place last season? The same winning mentality that took us to the dizzy depths of 19th position?Now check out the stats and see how many of those games "Babbbbbbbbbel" featured in and guess what all the players you mentioned with the 'Winning mentalities' played a massive part of those major achievements whilst 'Babbbbbbbbbbbbbbel' Was being "One holy disgrace as a human being"either sitting on the bench or sitting at home.Rafa won the CL with Houllier's signings one of only 2 trophies won with the millions he pissed down the toilet and now he's turning Inter into Liverpool....great manager indeed.As for the rest of your rant about him saying he's claimed he's bigger than the club is just your interpretation to back up your weak,lame and baseless arguments.Now please return you head to it's rightful place you really are embarrassing yourself

dave said...

Jamie Kanwar, why do you continue to complain about Benitez when he has been the most successful manager since Dalglish and yet you support Hodgson who looks like he will be our worst manager since Souness? Are you just argumentative or is it true that your only agenda is for hits on your website and getting a rise out of fans?

guest said...

he only wanted him after barry was signed, but yes he did want him in the squad!

Gab said...

erm, Gareth Barry, anyone?

Paulie said...

I still think that Babel is world class, just needs to get a few games under his belt.

Paulie
Trampolines

Gab said...

seems like tomorrow's game in Bucharest is his last chance. Roy may not have too many chances, either, judging by the Rijkaard rumours, Babel might improve for such a manager. There's even rumours of Cisse returning, the price being quoted in the press seems a bit steep, though.

Ren said...

Saying babel has an attitude problem is not the most accurate comment to make.
We haven't seen him in 3 consecutive matches. How can we come to such an unfair conclusion. Imagine yourself in babel's shoes. You were given a start. Even if you've got off to a good start, the thought of being substituted prematurely or being ignored completely for the next game plays constantly at the back of your mind. How can anyone play to potential?
Hodge is not the best manager we could've had - but Rafa was something else.
Take a look at where Inter find themselves. Rafa backers will still come up with a list of injuries and all that. But deep within, they know they're being let down by his clueless management.

Paul Rogers said...

I think that Babel is a class player, he just needs time and a run in the first team.

Paul
Playhouses

jack said...

dont agree.Look to progress made by agger,Skrtell, Insua,Ngog, Lucas, Torres all under Rafa.If he has got qualities he should use this opportunity and convince Roy.
Dont trough stones to Rafa.

Guest said...

wrong. He got concussion in the first match of the season against Arsenal.

Ynwa said...

JK. YOU are TOTALLY obsessed, with RAFA!!!, why don't you just move on.

Ynwa said...

KK.....you say....'not even manager of Liverpool anymore'?, so why the F do you still keep on posting, anti-Benitez cr*p?, move on JK, stop seeking attention!.

Ynwa said...

JK...agree, but, when one's opinion is insanely wrong ( as yours always seems to be ), others try to give some good advice, but in your case, I regret to say, it's a hopeless case :-).

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